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Re: Avoiding "Good job!" [Re: AZNpiano] #2801227
01/12/19 12:05 PM
01/12/19 12:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,938
*sigh* Salt Lake City
malkin Offline
4000 Post Club Member
malkin  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,938
*sigh* Salt Lake City
Originally Posted by AZNpiano

A sidebar is my pet peeve of praising the effort. As a student, I was always appalled whenever the teacher had to praise the effort. Students are SUPPOSED to give effort.


Doesn't everyone know that "Good try" means "that basically sucked?"


I've been trying to change my signature quote for weeks.

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Re: Avoiding "Good job!" [Re: AZNpiano] #2801456
01/13/19 03:55 AM
01/13/19 03:55 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,331
South Florida
G
Gary D. Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Gary D.  Offline
6000 Post Club Member
G

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,331
South Florida
Originally Posted by AZNpiano

You're missing the subtleties of the argument, and the context. While I don't go as far as that drum teacher in Whiplash, I do agree to an extent that "Good job!" is overused. It has become pointless. It's also misguiding students to pursue praise (or approval) instead of learning the material. Mastering the material at hand should be, by itself, enough reward and satisfaction.

This has NOTHING to do with the phrase "good job", and if it is overused, it's because people praise failure. I never do that. I never tell any student, at any age, that I think something is good when I don't. But it costs nothing to be supportive and positive about anything that warrants it. Someone plays several problem measures with no wrong notes - that's a good job to me. Then plays those same measure, at any tempo, with correct rhythm. Then begins to accelerate the passage until it sounds right.

You can at any moment focus on what is wrong, or what is right. I say always mention what is right, then talk about what the next step is, to make it better.
Quote

A sidebar is my pet peeve of praising the effort. As a student, I was always appalled whenever the teacher had to praise the effort. Students are SUPPOSED to give effort.

But I don't expect things, then act as if anything less is failure, or not worth acknowledging. I suppose it's all about what you mean by "praising effort". If said effort results in no progress, I don't praise it either. Someday you have to get a job, and your boss is not going to say, "Well, I see you tried hard. So you can keep your job." Not if you just screwed up and lost a company money, or lost a customer. So if that's what you are talking about, then I agree.


Piano Teacher
Re: Avoiding "Good job!" [Re: Gary D.] #2801738
01/14/19 12:10 AM
01/14/19 12:10 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,831
Orange County, CA
AZNpiano Offline
7000 Post Club Member
AZNpiano  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,831
Orange County, CA
Originally Posted by Gary D.
Originally Posted by AZNpiano

You're missing the subtleties of the argument, and the context. While I don't go as far as that drum teacher in Whiplash, I do agree to an extent that "Good job!" is overused. It has become pointless. It's also misguiding students to pursue praise (or approval) instead of learning the material. Mastering the material at hand should be, by itself, enough reward and satisfaction.

This has NOTHING to do with the phrase "good job", and if it is overused, it's because people praise failure. I never do that. I never tell any student, at any age, that I think something is good when I don't. But it costs nothing to be supportive and positive about anything that warrants it. Someone plays several problem measures with no wrong notes - that's a good job to me. Then plays those same measure, at any tempo, with correct rhythm. Then begins to accelerate the passage until it sounds right.

You can at any moment focus on what is wrong, or what is right. I say always mention what is right, then talk about what the next step is, to make it better.
Quote

A sidebar is my pet peeve of praising the effort. As a student, I was always appalled whenever the teacher had to praise the effort. Students are SUPPOSED to give effort.

But I don't expect things, then act as if anything less is failure, or not worth acknowledging. I suppose it's all about what you mean by "praising effort". If said effort results in no progress, I don't praise it either. Someday you have to get a job, and your boss is not going to say, "Well, I see you tried hard. So you can keep your job." Not if you just screwed up and lost a company money, or lost a customer. So if that's what you are talking about, then I agree.

We are more or less on the same page.


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
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