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Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: Sam S] #2779827
11/10/18 02:59 PM
11/10/18 02:59 PM
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sara elizabeth Offline
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Originally Posted by Sam S
According to the 2018 version of the Adult Beginner's Forum survey,

28% of us practice less than an hour a day.
56.5 % practice 1-2 hours a day
14.5% practice 2-3 hours a day
2.3% practice 3-4 hours a day
0.8% practice more than 4 hours a day.

Reported like that, it certainly sounds scientific doesn't it? But it wasn't really - 132 people responded to the survey. We do like to practice though.

Sam


I’m impressed with how much people are practicing. If I had to guess, I would have guessed lower. However I’m not sure the people on ABF are the typical adult beginner. I feel like we are all a just a little bit more serious .

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Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: ZanderChicago] #2779954
11/10/18 11:21 PM
11/10/18 11:21 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 453
Virginia
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DFSRN Offline
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Quote
For an amateur who practices 3 hours a day, I would just wonder why they just don't go to the conservatory.


I play from 2-3 hours a day, generally split my time. I know people that watch TV 3 hours a day or play video games and no one thinks anything about it. I have no desire to pursue formal education. I do take lessons 4 hours a week, 2 hours piano the other 2 hours theory/rhythm training on 2 different days. However, this is a hobby, I do not worry about GPA or missing a class, doing homework. I am in my 5th year of lessons, I am just having fun. I lose track of time when I practice.


Deb
"A goal properly set is halfway reached." Zig Ziglar
Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: ZanderChicago] #2779957
11/10/18 11:58 PM
11/10/18 11:58 PM
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Posts: 535
Toronto, Canada
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When it comes to time management, I do agree between playing piano and other hobbies depends on a person's priorities. There is 1 person who is retired. She may have taken some piano lessons but did not get into music in a serious way. During the day she preferred to be at home glued to certain TV programs she thinks are educational. Another young man at a high school level had some personal issues and took time off. He took music lessons for a few years but does not show any interest in music or feel comfortable playing and learning new songs on his own. With all the free time he would play video games for hours. On the other hand, his parents made music into an academic exercise that when he is near a piano would bring back bad memories.

Some young people who got enrolled into a music program by their parents ended up hating piano or violin that they wouldn't touch it for the rest of their lives. I'm the exact opposite. Coming from a non-musical family, nobody in the immediate family perform anywhere or practice regularly. Everybody in the family discuss money all the time. I find that playing music is a stress relieve from the rest of the family who seems to be obsessed with money. Living in a building with neighbors around I can only have a keyboard with a volume control. Today I spent the afternoon at a community center playing on 1 of their acoustic pianos. Nobody in the family who took music lessons in the past touched a piano within the past 5 years.

Having an interest in music is a personal thing. Not everybody who had lessons would continue playing many years afterwards. Some people feel that they need a teacher to be around to learn a few songs because they are afraid they may do something wrong. Even after passing a few conservatory exams, some feel they need a teacher to guide them along the way. Like playing piano is something you can never be good enough to do it on your own.

Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: DFSRN] #2780083
11/11/18 01:04 PM
11/11/18 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by DFSRN
Quote
For an amateur who practices 3 hours a day, I would just wonder why they just don't go to the conservatory.


I play from 2-3 hours a day, generally split my time. I know people that watch TV 3 hours a day or play video games and no one thinks anything about it. I have no desire to pursue formal education. I do take lessons 4 hours a week, 2 hours piano the other 2 hours theory/rhythm training on 2 different days. However, this is a hobby, I do not worry about GPA or missing a class, doing homework. I am in my 5th year of lessons, I am just having fun. I lose track of time when I practice.


People like YOU are a true inspiration to people like me. Thanks!


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Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: ZanderChicago] #2780142
11/11/18 04:42 PM
11/11/18 04:42 PM
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Posts: 453
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Thanks NobleHouse, I am not implying education is not important, I have a PhD and I am done with that part of my life at 58. However, my rhythm/theory teacher has created test unannounced, I have passed them all, if 80 is passing. When I went to college I thought music majors really were there to have fun. Taking music lessons as an adult I now have a different perspective of what it takes to be a performing musician. People have to go into this profession for the love it.


Deb
"A goal properly set is halfway reached." Zig Ziglar
Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: DFSRN] #2780151
11/11/18 05:08 PM
11/11/18 05:08 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,174
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
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Originally Posted by DFSRN
However, my rhythm/theory teacher has created test unannounced, I have passed them all, if 80 is passing.

Just curious- why do you pay a rhythm/theory teacher to teach you music theory? At 2 hours per week, wouldn't a music theory course at your local university be cheaper? Or if it is a matter of convenience, something like this?


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2780231
11/11/18 10:08 PM
11/11/18 10:08 PM
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Tyrone, I am a life time learner, however after two masters and a PhD, I am done with the formal schooling and the stress that goes along with it. He creates these test I believe to assess what I may need additional work on. If I did not do well, there is no consequence. If my husband and I decide to go on vacation, I just take the week off (I do still pay for my class). I finished by doctorate in July 2014, and have been taking 4 hours a week 2 for piano and 2 for rhythm/theory. It is nice to have classes customized for my specific learning needs. The director of the non-profit school has not raised my rates of $60 per hour since I started. For the past 2 summers we focused on jazz theory, so for the past 2 years I have been playing some songs out of a fake book. I am also working on 2 pianos 4 hands songs and playing while he accompanies me on the drums (he is a drum teacher also) to get a better sense of the pulse. Keeping time is my weakness and when you play along with someone, it becomes apparent if you missed the beat. This type of education would be difficult to get in a classroom setting. I have regretted not keeping up my music from childhood, I quit playing the violin at 18. I am at the point in life, I don't want to have regrets. I would like to be good enough to volunteer for the church and community functions.


Deb
"A goal properly set is halfway reached." Zig Ziglar
Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: DFSRN] #2780242
11/11/18 10:52 PM
11/11/18 10:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,174
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
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Originally Posted by DFSRN
Tyrone, I am a life time learner, however after two masters and a PhD, I am done with the formal schooling and the stress that goes along with it. He creates these test I believe to assess what I may need additional work on. If I did not do well, there is no consequence. If my husband and I decide to go on vacation, I just take the week off (I do still pay for my class). I finished by doctorate in July 2014, and have been taking 4 hours a week 2 for piano and 2 for rhythm/theory. It is nice to have classes customized for my specific learning needs. The director of the non-profit school has not raised my rates of $60 per hour since I started. For the past 2 summers we focused on jazz theory, so for the past 2 years I have been playing some songs out of a fake book. I am also working on 2 pianos 4 hands songs and playing while he accompanies me on the drums (he is a drum teacher also) to get a better sense of the pulse. Keeping time is my weakness and when you play along with someone, it becomes apparent if you missed the beat. This type of education would be difficult to get in a classroom setting. I have regretted not keeping up my music from childhood, I quit playing the violin at 18. I am at the point in life, I don't want to have regrets. I would like to be good enough to volunteer for the church and community functions.

I was just a little surprised because you're paying about $6K per year for your theory classes, for which you could take quite a bit of theory classes at the Uni or online for example at Berklee, but now I completely understand. Thanks for the explanation. We are all willing to pay for convenience and do it routinely, some more than others. And it also sounds like it's not only the convenience of being able to miss classes guilt-free, but that formal classes stress you, and so you are paying for stress-free and tailored learning too. (Are you like me, in that only an "A" will do? LOL.)

BTW, for additional stress-free, but in this case, non-tailored learning, have you every looked into non-graded/evaluated learning opportunities, such as Coursera?


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2780247
11/11/18 11:18 PM
11/11/18 11:18 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,196
Dublin
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johnstaf Offline
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Dublin
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I was just a little surprised because you're paying about $6K per year for your theory classes, for which you could take quite a bit of theory classes at the Uni or online for example at Berklee, but now I completely understand.


This probably differs by country, but where I live you can't take university classes unless at degree level. Is it different in the U.S. for example?

Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: johnstaf] #2780253
11/11/18 11:58 PM
11/11/18 11:58 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,174
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
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Originally Posted by johnstaf
This probably differs by country, but where I live you can't take university classes unless at degree level. Is it different in the U.S. for example?

This was considered elitist and most educational institutions in the US have moved away from this model. It's elitist because it limits the educational opportunities to only those who can afford to go to college for a degree (afford either from a cost or time perspective). Even my alma mater now offers classes to students not in a degree program. They sometimes refer to this as the "evening division" or "adult learning programs" or some such. What's more, you can even take courses online in the US (including for college credit) even from a foreign country.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: ZanderChicago] #2780263
11/12/18 12:48 AM
11/12/18 12:48 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,196
Dublin
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johnstaf Offline
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Thanks for that. I did a second degree mostly online, but it cost me a fortune. My music degree was free though, so overall it wasn't that bad.

Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: ZanderChicago] #2780336
11/12/18 09:13 AM
11/12/18 09:13 AM
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Posts: 453
Virginia
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Tyrone and Johnstaf, I believe you can enroll in a face-to-face course as a non-degree student or to audit it. The online I have done some of the Udemy classes, it was like $10 on sale and you keep that life for your lifetime. Regarding online learning, I have taught online previously for 5 years, my masters in nursing was online and the PhD was online with university visits called intensives and presenting the dissertation face-to-face to faculty. My friends husband wanted to learn the piano had a Yamaha U3. At the time they could not afford lessons she was working on her doctorate. Trying to teach him online how to play the piano was challenging. Academics online is different than learning a psychomotor skill online such as piano, dance, drawing, etc...... I think those type of lessons the student derives more benefit face-to-face.

Tyrone, I do pay 12,000 a year for lessons. I figure it is less expensive than a second home, bass boat/fishing hobby, golf, dirt bike hobby, trading a car every few years, etc... This goes to a non-profit school which employees musicians part-time, my previous instructor (the directors son) was a symphony player and had a masters from Oberlin, the one now has a undergrad in piano performance and MA in music education and is a performing artist. I do ask that my instructor has a music degree. The director told me I only employee those with a music degree. I feel I am receiving an excellent education and supporting a small community music school. I believe she told me she has 55 students, currently she only has 2 adults taking lessons. She said they come and go, most not lasting a year.She opened her school in 1997, she was a symphony player the oboe, she also sings, and plays piano. I am happy to support a school that offers arts education to the community.


Deb
"A goal properly set is halfway reached." Zig Ziglar
Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: ZanderChicago] #2780490
11/12/18 08:07 PM
11/12/18 08:07 PM
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You can't beat one-to-one instruction. You can make much more progress when your teacher is tailoring your tuition just for you. It's as true for music theory as it is for the piano.

Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: ZanderChicago] #2781264
11/15/18 11:41 AM
11/15/18 11:41 AM
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Murmansk, Russia
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Well...if child prodigies exist, may be he is an adult prodigy:)?

Watched the video. From the amateur's point of view it's impressive. But I'll show it to my friends from Moscow and St. Petersburg conservatories to find out how professional it really is.

I think it's the same as with amateur piano competitions. No one cheks the participants are really amateurs. It's just taken for granted.
Or a story my teacher told me about "amateur saxophonist" from TV show. You know, all this "we search for talents" etc. She and other musicians were in their tour bus going for the next recital. And the was a TV in the bus, with this TV show on the screen. And so the anchorman there announced their next participant, allegedly a guy from a small village somewhere in a deep province. They claim he never took any prifessional lesson and was completely self-taught. But when this guy appeared on the screen with his sax, one of my teachers friend said:"Hey!WTF? I know him! He graduated from the same conservatory as me!".
People just want so much to believe in fairy tales...


By the way, we should not forget that ability to play 5-6 pieces is one thing. Having an overall skill of playing an instrument, master it in all the ways is another.


"No succes of failure matters when it's about true vocation". Nicolás Gómez Dávila


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Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: PianoStartsAt33] #2781272
11/15/18 12:05 PM
11/15/18 12:05 PM
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New York City
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Originally Posted by PianoStartsAt33
Well...if child prodigies exist, may be he is an adult prodigy:)?
I think it's the same as with amateur piano competitions. No one checks the participants are really amateurs. It's just taken for granted.
He's not an adult prodigy because although the level of the piece is very high for his time studying piano, the performance is not so good.

The requirements for most amateur pianos competitions are usually something like the pianist cannot within the last x years make a significant part of his living from performing or teaching. I doubt many, if any, competitors try and cheat about this because they would eventually be found out with all the negative consequences that would follow.

Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: pianoloverus] #2781285
11/15/18 12:30 PM
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Indeed, no one really cares how many ears have you been learning piano, at what age you started etc. When you play something in front of some public and say "O, sorry, I started playing piano only a couple years ago, at the age of 30" - this is not an excuse. Of course, people can say"Oh, I understand" - but in reality they do not understand and do not care. Only quality matters.
So, forget about who, when, where and how started learning piano. Just concentrate on yourself and practice.


"No succes of failure matters when it's about true vocation". Nicolás Gómez Dávila


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Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: PianoStartsAt33] #2781347
11/15/18 03:25 PM
11/15/18 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by PianoStartsAt33
Well...if child prodigies exist, may be he is an adult prodigy:)?

I watched most of the video. He has very good finger dexterity and articulation for only one year of experience. His phrasing, tone and dynamics I think show his lack of experience. So no, I would not call him an adult prodigy. Interesting concept, though!



Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: PianoStartsAt33] #2781371
11/15/18 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by PianoStartsAt33
Indeed, no one really cares how many ears have you been learning piano, at what age you started etc. When you play something in front of some public and say "O, sorry, I started playing piano only a couple years ago, at the age of 30" - this is not an excuse. Of course, people can say"Oh, I understand" - but in reality they do not understand and do not care. Only quality matters.
So, forget about who, when, where and how started learning piano. Just concentrate on yourself and practice.

Actually, many people care about how long someone has played. I know because I have been asked this many times. It seems a rather silly question to ask adults for the most part, and I usually reply "all my life" or smile and say "I just started last week" if I'm in a sarcastic mood.

Certainly, people tend to be even more interested in how long a younger student has been playing. And interviews with great pianists often include questions about when they started playing although most hearing them in concert wouldn't particularly care unless they were very young.

Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: pianoloverus] #2781377
11/15/18 04:57 PM
11/15/18 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by PianoStartsAt33
Indeed, no one really cares how many ears have you been learning piano, at what age you started etc. When you play something in front of some public and say "O, sorry, I started playing piano only a couple years ago, at the age of 30" - this is not an excuse. Of course, people can say"Oh, I understand" - but in reality they do not understand and do not care. Only quality matters.
So, forget about who, when, where and how started learning piano. Just concentrate on yourself and practice.

Actually, many people care about how long someone has played. I know because I have been asked this many times. It seems a rather silly question to ask adults for the most part, and I usually reply "all my life" or smile and say "I just started last week" if I'm in a sarcastic mood.

Certainly, people tend to be even more interested in how long a younger student has been playing. And interviews with great pianists often include questions about when they started playing although most hearing them in concert wouldn't particularly care unless they were very young.


IMHO, all these people who care are just like us here - learning or thinking about learning playing piano. Of course, we need some inspiring examples of succesfull adult-starters. But regular people don't.
I like metal music very much. But I never cared who long any of this drummers, guitarists or bass players learned their instruments and when did they start. But when I see keyboard player in a band, I sometimes really wonder how long did he learn, when he has started etc.


"No succes of failure matters when it's about true vocation". Nicolás Gómez Dávila


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Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: ZanderChicago] #2781568
11/16/18 08:23 AM
11/16/18 08:23 AM
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I suppose its possible but one must have a natural ability which he clearly has, if its genuine. He obviously has a natural hand independence, the one area that I struggle with.
I did notice the little plug for Jane's lessons at the bottom too...


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