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Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: mrdfw] #2779354
11/08/18 05:22 PM
11/08/18 05:22 PM
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 213
Istanbul
I
IosPlayer Online content
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IosPlayer  Online Content
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Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 213
Istanbul
Haha! I imagine you would, Dave.


Jazz at www.newartistsrecords.com. Search Michael Levy. Use Safari for free tracks.
https://soundcloud.com/michael-levy-387395070
1915 Steinway B
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Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: mrdfw] #2779444
11/09/18 02:49 AM
11/09/18 02:49 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 272
Kent, UK
Simon_b Offline
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Simon_b  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 272
Kent, UK
Hi Michael

I've made it quite clear that I don't think there is one right way of teaching Jazz. Your methodology will suit some people, but not others. Annoyingly you have used the phrase "Obviously you have not understood...." again. You speak as if you are on a very high pedestal, and whilst I don't doubt your talent, talking down to people is a sure fire way to wind them up.

As I said in my previous post, and as Don rather more eloquently put it, its all rather pointless. Clearly you and Nahum don't agree. So move on.

I wish you all the best.

Simon


Simon
Yamaha CLP535

Play what you enjoy listening to, listen to what you enjoy playing!




Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: Simon_b] #2779456
11/09/18 04:14 AM
11/09/18 04:14 AM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,073
uk south
D
dire tonic Offline
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dire tonic  Offline
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D

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,073
uk south
Originally Posted by Simon_b

As I said in my previous post, and as Don rather more eloquently put it, its all rather pointless. Clearly you and Nahum don't agree. So move on.

Socrates to Plato and interlocuter: "Clearly you disagree with each other. Kindly stifle your arguments and move on".

What are we coming to? Clearly if we're championing the colour puce against beige there's not much more to be said.

Otherwise, let us be respectful, keep the temperature down and allow others - not least of all the OP who has explicitly declared an interest - to take in an exchange of views.

Those who want to tune out are under no obligation to stay.

Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: mrdfw] #2779470
11/09/18 05:15 AM
11/09/18 05:15 AM
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 213
Istanbul
I
IosPlayer Online content
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IosPlayer  Online Content
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Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 213
Istanbul
Dear Simon, I certainly was not talking down to you. If I am not humble enough I apologize. I have said I am not a great player nor have great students, but I respect my teachers and believe all viewpoints deserve a fair hearing,

I just could not understand, if you read and understood where I was coming from, that you could suppose I was saying beginners could not understand melody, singing with records, note to note presence, etc. it makes no sense to me. I hope, respectfully, that you now understand my consternation with your remark,

As far as moving on, so long as people want to discuss this I am available to comment. Obviously Mr. Nahum and I differ on the basic premises of respect and politeness and there is no point in my trying to challenge his (IMO) prejudices directly. So, I agree, it is better if he and I discontinue any attempt at rational communication. But as far as the subject is concerned I don't choose to be stifled by one or two critics. There are others on this forum who, I believe, share my views. If they believe it is pertinent I hope they will offer their perspectives on the subject.

I don't believe it is your decision to determine when folks should move along. That is the condescension you seem to think I am guilty of. However, I do think you are an honest and fair minded person and respect any thoughts you might have on the subject. Regards, Mike


Jazz at www.newartistsrecords.com. Search Michael Levy. Use Safari for free tracks.
https://soundcloud.com/michael-levy-387395070
1915 Steinway B
Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: mrdfw] #2779486
11/09/18 07:13 AM
11/09/18 07:13 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 272
Kent, UK
Simon_b Offline
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Simon_b  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 272
Kent, UK
Hi Michael

Certainly no apology required, sometimes in the heat of the moment we say things that don't quite read or sound right, or are misinterpreted by other people (me most likely!). Its certainly not my place to tell anybody when to stop. But there comes a time when continuing to argue is futile. I've done it on this forum with a number of people. Sadly it seems to be human nature; we just can't help ourselves.

Whilst I find the topic very interesting, I just don't have the time to put into practice some of the excellent ideas and methods suggested here. As I said before IMO all have some merit. I've seen nothing where I have thought this is clearly rubbish.

I'm largely self-taught, though I've had private lessons with a couple of Professional Jazz Pianists over here in the UK. I make no claims for my playing either (I'm a bit of a jack of all trades) though I've studied music academically to a high level.

I hope one day to visit New York and try and fit in a private lesson with Dave (Frank).
A dream holiday!

Best wishes

Simon


Simon
Yamaha CLP535

Play what you enjoy listening to, listen to what you enjoy playing!




Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: mrdfw] #2779500
11/09/18 09:15 AM
11/09/18 09:15 AM
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 213
Istanbul
I
IosPlayer Online content
Full Member
IosPlayer  Online Content
Full Member
I

Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 213
Istanbul
Thanks for taking the time to write that, Simon. I am glad we have found common ground. I am not here for confrontation, but it is a part of life. How we handle it says a lot about who we are. Best, Mike


Jazz at www.newartistsrecords.com. Search Michael Levy. Use Safari for free tracks.
https://soundcloud.com/michael-levy-387395070
1915 Steinway B
Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: mrdfw] #2779564
11/09/18 02:25 PM
11/09/18 02:25 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 369
I
indigo_dave Offline
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indigo_dave  Offline
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 369

I went back to the beginning of this thread. I think some of the early posts were deleted. I made a post recommending learning to play blues as an introduction to improvising. It seems to have vaporized. Also the posts with Dave Frank and Mike (IOSplayer) acquainting with each other seem to have disappeared.

These things don't really matter, unless someone were to go back in an effort to get a complete accounting of what transpired in this (at times) contentious thread.

Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: mrdfw] #2779566
11/09/18 02:33 PM
11/09/18 02:33 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 576
NYC
D
Dfrankjazz Online content
500 Post Club Member
Dfrankjazz  Online Content
500 Post Club Member
D

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 576
NYC
must be Russian hackers..

Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: mrdfw] #2779572
11/09/18 03:00 PM
11/09/18 03:00 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 369
I
indigo_dave Offline
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indigo_dave  Offline
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I

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 369
My attorneys are working on litigation. Or not.

sick

Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: mrdfw] #2779575
11/09/18 03:06 PM
11/09/18 03:06 PM
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 213
Istanbul
I
IosPlayer Online content
Full Member
IosPlayer  Online Content
Full Member
I

Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 213
Istanbul
Hey, is it my fault the Israelies are working with the Chinese? Glad to see the thread lightening!


Jazz at www.newartistsrecords.com. Search Michael Levy. Use Safari for free tracks.
https://soundcloud.com/michael-levy-387395070
1915 Steinway B
Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: IosPlayer] #2779590
11/09/18 03:52 PM
11/09/18 03:52 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,073
Southwestern Ontario
P
prout Offline
4000 Post Club Member
prout  Offline
4000 Post Club Member
P

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,073
Southwestern Ontario
Originally Posted by IosPlayer
Glad to see the thread lightening!
You mean the thread is finally descending into the pelvic cavity?

Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: indigo_dave] #2779641
11/09/18 07:27 PM
11/09/18 07:27 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,682
Israel
N
Nahum Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Nahum  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
N

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,682
Israel
Originally Posted by indigo_dave

I made a post recommending learning to play blues as an introduction to improvising. .
Yes, I often do this with beginners; There is no walking bass in the left hand, only "left-right, left-right." In his right hand, a student plays a riff, which he himself comes up with - based on a short sentence of 4-6 words (in English). This way, two hares are killed: the student gets acquainted simultaneously with the rhythm close to the swing, and makes sure that improvisation is the not so difficult natural phenomenon. Winning combination!


Impact on musical improvisation using the principle of theatrical improvisation:

A student who has no idea what he is playing -

https://yadi.sk/d/S-qrTNpy3Wo3pz

The result of preliminary psychological training in the spirit of TV show "Whose Line Is It Anyway?" two minutes later -

https://yadi.sk/d/lbbKWx2y3Wo4Ak


The difference speaks for itself. In the ensemble it acts much more impressively. What does Berklee say about this? ))

Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: Nahum] #2779740
11/10/18 08:23 AM
11/10/18 08:23 AM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,920
Pennsylvania
D
dmd Offline
3000 Post Club Member
dmd  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
D

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,920
Pennsylvania
Originally Posted by Nahum
What does Berklee say about this? ))



Translation ..,.,.,. Let's keep arguing.


Don

Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course - Completed Chapter 5

Pianoteq, Spacestation v.3 Powered Stereo Monitor
Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: mrdfw] #2779742
11/10/18 08:32 AM
11/10/18 08:32 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,682
Israel
N
Nahum Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Nahum  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
N

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,682
Israel
Originally Posted by dmd
Originally Posted by Nahum
What does Berklee say about this? ))



Translation ..,.,.,. Let's keep arguing.


Sorry, I do not know what to translate!

Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: mrdfw] #2780218
11/11/18 08:27 PM
11/11/18 08:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,803
San Jose, CA
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Jeff Clef  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,803
San Jose, CA
And there is Klee... when one wants to rest one's eyes from music with too much color.


Clef

Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: mrdfw] #2780297
11/12/18 04:43 AM
11/12/18 04:43 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,682
Israel
N
Nahum Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Nahum  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
N

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,682
Israel
To OP. I am by no means a theorist or philosopher, but a teacher - practitioner. Here are examples of combining printed text with the work on jazz touch. The first phrase from Etude of O. Peterson - first at a normal pace, then in slow motion - to demonstrate the entire kitchen of jazz articulation:

https://yadi.sk/d/eHY5GFLzsbtfB

My student, classically trained, is working on the first phrase from Li'l Darlin ' by Neal Hefty :

https://yadi.sk/d/PLLSbn1UYYyKYA

Such detailed work necessarily leaves an imprint on improvisation from the very beginning.

I come from concept of playing the saxophone, including breathing and articulation with tongue and diaphragm , and transfer it to the keyboard ( I ask critics to take into account that I am an unprofessional saxophonist).

https://yadi.sk/i/td_S5QRY3ai37J

Short translation:

0:00 - quasi classic character of playing

0:50 - it is characteristic for jazz to combine legato with accents

1:39 - transfer the saxophone articulation to the piano

2:44 -legato detailing by pairs of eights

3:25 - about accents coming from the shoulder.

It should be noted that the accents and movements on the keyboard are intentionally exaggerated.

4:19 - a parallel between the emphasis from the tongue on saxophone and the emphasis on the keyboard with finger, then on breathing from diaphragm, which is equal to the impulse from the pianist’s shoulder with underarm .

Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: mrdfw] #2781564
11/16/18 06:48 AM
11/16/18 06:48 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,682
Israel
N
Nahum Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Nahum  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
N

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,682
Israel

Here is another example of how to join the playing of Count Basie:

https://yadi.sk/d/lia6vcQx3GVjk5

In the history of jazz, there were pianists with advanced techniques who tried to imitate his playing on the piano, and did not understand why they sounded different. In addition to personal sound production, Basie developed individualization in the pronunciation of each note to such an extent that it is incredibly difficult to reproduce it - despite the apparent simplicity of the phrases. But the attempts themselves to achieve this make the pianist feel the atmosphere of genuine jazz.

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