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Re: Adult only wants to learn chords? [Re: Gary D.] #2778572
11/05/18 08:30 PM
11/05/18 08:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,654
Reseda, California
J
JohnSprung Offline
Unobtanium Subscriber
JohnSprung  Offline
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J

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,654
Reseda, California
Originally Posted by Gary D.
One of my students wanted to play "Here Comes the Sun". I didn't know what key it was until I listened. I had never thought about it. The YouTube recording is approximately A, but it is sharp to around A447=A448. Why? No idea. A seems logical for guitar, but I'm used to people changing pitch by speeding things up. I don't know if this is done today. Because my pitch is not critically linked to A440, I just listened, wrote it out, then gave it to her in A.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeptwXeiY3U&t=99s

What do you hear?


Debussy footprints in the snow -- it's the wrong link.


-- J.S.

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Re: Adult only wants to learn chords? [Re: TimR] #2778609
11/06/18 01:14 AM
11/06/18 01:14 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 703
California
hello my name is Offline
500 Post Club Member
hello my name is  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 703
California
Originally Posted by TimR

My mother remarked once about transposition, "it's not that hard. Just master seven clefs and you're done." Maybe so, it would be a large effort though, and for me a perishable skill.


Ugh, transposing. It's definitely useful in choir accompaniment, and I'm not skilled at it. Can I transpose? Oh yes, sure, in theory. In fact today, the choir director who only took a piano proficiency class in university scooted me over on the piano bench and played the warmup since I couldn't do it on the fly. Embarrassing, much? Why this sort of thing is not incorporated in CM exams, I wonder, as I think it should be. It's ridiculous to me that I took years of lessons yet in situations like these I'm a blind person at the piano. Really think piano education should be more well-rounded in this area.

So transposing. I find it practically impossible to do if I'm looking at a score, maybe analogous to folks like AZN reaching for wrong keys on a transposed keyboard. Stopping my brain from overcorrecting back to what is on the score is extremely difficult.

Without the score.. it's easier, but ask me to do anything more than arpeggios and scales or things shaped vaguely like arpeggios and scales, and I'll start trembling and hitting wrong notes. Without a visible key signature to cue me, I feel like I'm driving with very fuzzy lanes and it doesn't end well.

I videotaped my choir director as I intend to learn the warmup, transposed, but I'm afraid my brain will take the easiest route, and will only memorize the entire warmup as an individual entity... I suppose the best way to learn to transpose would be to practice. Twould be like forcing myself to write with my left hand -- painful and looks like a kindergartner's work lol.


Piano Teacher in Training
Re: Adult only wants to learn chords? [Re: JohnSprung] #2778611
11/06/18 01:22 AM
11/06/18 01:22 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,327
South Florida
G
Gary D. Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Gary D.  Offline
6000 Post Club Member
G

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,327
South Florida
Originally Posted by JohnSprung
[quote=Gary D.]
Debussy footprints in the snow -- it's the wrong link.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_O1QKQCsGs

Let's see if this fixes the problem. You must have been the first person to even check.


Piano Teacher
Re: Adult only wants to learn chords? [Re: Gary D.] #2778717
11/06/18 11:41 AM
11/06/18 11:41 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 703
California
hello my name is Offline
500 Post Club Member
hello my name is  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 703
California
Originally Posted by Gary D.
Originally Posted by JohnSprung
[quote=Gary D.]
Debussy footprints in the snow -- it's the wrong link.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_O1QKQCsGs

Let's see if this fixes the problem. You must have been the first person to even check.


I checked, and still thought it sounded high, which just shows that I was biased cause of your comment and actually can't hear it lol.


Piano Teacher in Training
Re: Adult only wants to learn chords? [Re: hello my name is] #2778771
11/06/18 02:22 PM
11/06/18 02:22 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,790
Orange County, CA
AZNpiano Offline
7000 Post Club Member
AZNpiano  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,790
Orange County, CA
Originally Posted by hello my name is
Ugh, transposing. It's definitely useful in choir accompaniment, and I'm not skilled at it. Can I transpose? Oh yes, sure, in theory. In fact today, the choir director who only took a piano proficiency class in university scooted me over on the piano bench and played the warmup since I couldn't do it on the fly. Embarrassing, much? Why this sort of thing is not incorporated in CM exams, I wonder, as I think it should be. It's ridiculous to me that I took years of lessons yet in situations like these I'm a blind person at the piano. Really think piano education should be more well-rounded in this area.

The problem is that very few piano teachers actually can do this. One of my transfer students who moved from out of state had to do simple transpositions on her home state's piano test.

Originally Posted by hello my name is
So transposing. I find it practically impossible to do if I'm looking at a score, maybe analogous to folks like AZN reaching for wrong keys on a transposed keyboard. Stopping my brain from overcorrecting back to what is on the score is extremely difficult.

You are mixing two scenarios. I reach for wrong keys if the keyboard is transposed. That's because I have perfect pitch. But I can do transpositions on the fly when I play very simple music. Choral accompanists should be able to do simple transpositions on the fly. When I was teaching choir, one of my accompanists was trained to do difficult transpositions on the fly, and even he messed up sometimes.


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
Re: Adult only wants to learn chords? [Re: hello my name is] #2778794
11/06/18 03:28 PM
11/06/18 03:28 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,327
South Florida
G
Gary D. Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Gary D.  Offline
6000 Post Club Member
G

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,327
South Florida
Originally Posted by hello my name is


I checked, and still thought it sounded high, which just shows that I was biased cause of your comment and actually can't hear it lol.

If you don't have a strong pitch link, you're doing the wrong thing. Play the video, then while it is playing strike a strong A chord on the piano and listen to the two together. You should hear that the piano is clearly lower, or the recording is clearly higher.


Piano Teacher
Re: Adult only wants to learn chords? [Re: AZNpiano] #2779009
11/07/18 03:17 PM
11/07/18 03:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 703
California
hello my name is Offline
500 Post Club Member
hello my name is  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 703
California
Originally Posted by AZNpiano

Originally Posted by hello my name is
So transposing. I find it practically impossible to do if I'm looking at a score, maybe analogous to folks like AZN reaching for wrong keys on a transposed keyboard. Stopping my brain from overcorrecting back to what is on the score is extremely difficult.

You are mixing two scenarios. I reach for wrong keys if the keyboard is transposed. That's because I have perfect pitch. But I can do transpositions on the fly when I play very simple music. Choral accompanists should be able to do simple transpositions on the fly. When I was teaching choir, one of my accompanists was trained to do difficult transpositions on the fly, and even he messed up sometimes.

No I was mixing for the analogy of the brain. Because you have perfect pitch you can't ignore what you're hearing, whereas I don't, so I am easily ignorant of what I'm hearing. Same with trying to transpose while I am looking at a score. I can't ignore what I'm seeing.


Piano Teacher in Training
Re: Adult only wants to learn chords? [Re: Gary D.] #2779010
11/07/18 03:18 PM
11/07/18 03:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 703
California
hello my name is Offline
500 Post Club Member
hello my name is  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 703
California
Originally Posted by Gary D.
Originally Posted by hello my name is


I checked, and still thought it sounded high, which just shows that I was biased cause of your comment and actually can't hear it lol.

If you don't have a strong pitch link, you're doing the wrong thing. Play the video, then while it is playing strike a strong A chord on the piano and listen to the two together. You should hear that the piano is clearly lower, or the recording is clearly higher.


Ok yes my piano sounds horribly flat if I play it against the video.


Piano Teacher in Training
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