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Kawai CS11 dissasembly #2770095
10/06/18 03:43 PM
10/06/18 03:43 PM
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berkut Offline OP
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Hello all,

After pouring over just about everything on the internet (especially on this forum) about digital pianos and after trying some in the shops I have finally decided upon the Kawai CS11. I tried the CA78 in the shop and liked the action very much but I would really like the 'proper' cabinet design of the CS11. However, I think I've just come across a problem and I wondered if anyone on here may be able to help.

The problem is that I need to be able to get the piano up a narrow and curving staircase and, after reading the manual online, it looks like this particular model is supplied pre-assembled and would need taking to pieces in order to get it up my stairs. Does anyone know how straightforward a job this is?

Many thanks for any help/advice.

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Re: Kawai CS11 dissasembly [Re: berkut] #2770098
10/06/18 03:59 PM
10/06/18 03:59 PM
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Germany
JoBert Offline
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It is not possible to disassemble the CS11. It has to remain in a single piece because of the sound board, just like an acoustic piano. So the CA78 would be a better choice for you. Are you aware that the CA78 is now also available in a polished black finish? Maybe that is "good enough" for you, as a compromise?
Also, are you aware that the CA78 has a newer sound engine than the CS11? That could sweeten the deal a bit...

Last edited by JoBert; 10/06/18 03:59 PM.
Re: Kawai CS11 dissasembly [Re: berkut] #2770105
10/06/18 04:27 PM
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berkut Offline OP
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Thank you for your advice Jo. Unfortunately, I don't really like the cabinet design of the CA78 and I especially don't like the newer touch screen control panel.

I wonder if it is possible to disassemble, but not by design. Presumably the components are screwed, rather than glued together. It is possible, to an extent, to disassemble an acoustic upright, at least the key bed and legs can be removed. Any experimental deconstruction would totally void the warranty and may not be such a good idea on such an expensive item. I feel that it would be worth it for me if it could be done though.

Re: Kawai CS11 dissasembly [Re: berkut] #2770106
10/06/18 04:35 PM
10/06/18 04:35 PM
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spanishbuddha Offline
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Just wondering if you can put it through a window? Some windows come out, and return, surprisingly easily by a professional. That leaves hoisting the weight which again might be quite easy although possibly more expensive..

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Re: Kawai CS11 dissasembly [Re: berkut] #2770247
10/07/18 10:51 AM
10/07/18 10:51 AM
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You probably could take it apart and re-assemble, but I doubt anyone else ever has ever done it with the CS11 (it's not exactly a common model), so you're pretty much on your own.

If the CS11 doesn't fit up the stairs then I say forget about it and get a different model. Roland's LX-17 is very nice and comes disassembled: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAtXEdnh1w4


Kawai CA95 / Steinberg UR22 / Sony MDR-7506 / Pianoteq Stage + Grotrian / Galaxy Vintage D / CFX Lite
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810
Re: Kawai CS11 dissasembly [Re: berkut] #2770252
10/07/18 10:57 AM
10/07/18 10:57 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 500
So. Calif.
TomLC Offline
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Call the piano movers your dealer recommends. They will get it up the stairs. (For a price smile )

They move grand pianos through windows with a crane or in your case maybe just a forklift.

Last edited by TomLC; 10/07/18 11:01 AM.

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Re: Kawai CS11 dissasembly [Re: berkut] #2770257
10/07/18 11:17 AM
10/07/18 11:17 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 500
So. Calif.
TomLC Offline
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I just looked at the LX 17 video. I agree with Iolatu. It looks marvelous and sounds marvelous. You may find you like it better and not have the moving issue.


Kawai Novus NV10
Re: Kawai CS11 dissasembly [Re: berkut] #2770278
10/07/18 12:03 PM
10/07/18 12:03 PM
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berkut Offline OP
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Thank you again for all of your comments and suggestions.

I have tried the LX17 but I don't like the action; it doesn't feel (to me) as nice as the Kawai's. I have actually tried the LX17 twice because I wanted to like it so much, but going between it and the Kawai there's no doubt that the action is less authentic (to me). I didn't mind the sound of the Roland though, which seems to be the thing that other people are most critical of and I really like that the cover can be pulled over the buttons and display to put them out of sight when playing.

Unfortunately, it would't be possible to get it through the window as I live in a little cottage with little cottage stairs and little cottage windows.

I have re-thought my quandary and, realistically, now I'm leaning toward the CS8, or the CA78 since they are the same price. I know the CA78 is newer but the CS8 has the black polyester finish (the CA78 in black polyester is £400 more). Other than the touch screen there seems to be little difference between them so the CS8 looks like the better buy. It's unfortunate that I can't find anyone local to try the CS8 but, as is has the same action as the CA78, I expect it to be very similar.

I am going to be almost always using the piano with headphones so I don't think that the CA98 has any advantage for me over the 78.

Re: Kawai CS11 dissasembly [Re: berkut] #2770286
10/07/18 12:35 PM
10/07/18 12:35 PM
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Posts: 500
So. Calif.
TomLC Offline
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The CS8 does not have the Pianist sound engine. However, if like me you normally play with head phones, I don't see that as a disadvantage. You can adjust the sounds to your liking. The CS8 is in a better cabinet than the CA78 ( it weighs 24 pounds more) and to me at least it is better looking.


Kawai Novus NV10
Re: Kawai CS11 dissasembly [Re: berkut] #2770291
10/07/18 12:56 PM
10/07/18 12:56 PM
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The Roland action seems to be very divisive. A lot of people don't like it, while others (including myself) like it a lot. In an ideal world, you'd imagine there'd be few disagreements over which action feels the most realistic, but I suppose we piano people are a funny lot.

Re: Kawai CS11 dissasembly [Re: johnstaf] #2770306
10/07/18 02:04 PM
10/07/18 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by johnstaf
The Roland action seems to be very divisive. A lot of people don't like it, while others (including myself) like it a lot. In an ideal world, you'd imagine there'd be few disagreements over which action feels the most realistic, but I suppose we piano people are a funny lot.


This ought to be the last word on the matter but you can rest assured it won't be. Fortunately, it doesn't matter much - can anyone remember so much time being spent arguing about piano actions before digital pianos appeared? I certainly can't except for the common place observation back then that playing a Fender Rhodes was like sex using a condom. Fair comment - Rhodes pianos actions were pretty lumpy and generally awful, and today's DPs are way better.

Nowadays, we've simply not got anything more exciting to talk about, I suppose.


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Re: Kawai CS11 dissasembly [Re: toddy] #2770313
10/07/18 02:29 PM
10/07/18 02:29 PM
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Germany
JoBert Offline
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Originally Posted by toddy
can anyone remember so much time being spent arguing about piano actions before digital pianos appeared?

That discussion is not limited to DPs. If you go over to the acoustic forum, there's right now an ongoing thread discussing the merits of Yamaha acoustic actions vs. Kawai acoustic actions (and if the latter are always heavier or not). Another current thread is discussing the Blüthner patent action, which is 130 years old or something thereabouts. You see, action discussions are eternal, even for acoustics.

Re: Kawai CS11 dissasembly [Re: berkut] #2770336
10/07/18 04:47 PM
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Right. Perhaps I've jumped to a conclusion by saying that DP actions are more discussed than acoustic ones but it still seems to me that the minutiae of such things as piano actions cause far more hot air now than they used to do......or maybe such discussions just used to go on behind closed doors in dark, smoke filled rooms. Now it's all out in the open for better or for worse.....


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact

Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
Re: Kawai CS11 dissasembly [Re: berkut] #2770347
10/07/18 05:28 PM
10/07/18 05:28 PM
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It's like that with everything now. The Internet provides the perfect environment for the nerdiest of discussions. I'm sure there's a forum somewhere discussing the merits of various toothpaste flavouring agents.

Another thing about the Internet is that it's so easy to get an endless supply of information without any understanding necessarily following its consumption.

Post 1: Which should I learn. The piano or the guitar?

Post 2: Ossia Cadenza vs Alkan?

Post 3: What's the pivot length of a concert grand?

Last edited by johnstaf; 10/07/18 05:29 PM.
Re: Kawai CS11 dissasembly [Re: berkut] #2770363
10/07/18 05:58 PM
10/07/18 05:58 PM
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It's all about [cultivating a sense of] proportion, boys, as Mr Chips might have said.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact

Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
Re: Kawai CS11 dissasembly [Re: TomLC] #2770404
10/07/18 09:44 PM
10/07/18 09:44 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,430
Hamamatsu, Japan
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Originally Posted by TomLC
The CS8 does not have the Pianist sound engine. However, if like me you normally play with head phones, I don't see that as a disadvantage.


Personally, if playing with headphones was the focus, I would prefer to purchase an instrument with the latest "SK-EX Rendering" sound engine (aka "Pianist mode"), due to the superior sound quality and realism.

Originally Posted by TomLC
The CS8 is in a better cabinet than the CA78 ( it weighs 24 pounds more) and to me at least it is better looking.


That's true for the standard wood finish CA78, however the ebony polish CA78 weighs 7 kg more, and looks very similar to the CS8:

[Linked Image]

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai CS11 dissasembly [Re: berkut] #2770405
10/07/18 09:48 PM
10/07/18 09:48 PM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
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Hello berkut, welcome to the forum.

As JoBert notes, the CS11 cannot be disassembled due to the presence of the soundboard speaker.

It may be possible to strip-down the instrument into its core parts, and then reassemble everything in your room, however this is something you would need to discuss with the dealer. As a Kawai employee, I'm afraid it's not something that I would be able to recommend.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai CS11 dissasembly [Re: berkut] #2770503
10/08/18 08:42 AM
10/08/18 08:42 AM
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Hi! I would also suggest you go with the CA78 or 98 instead of the CS 8/11 due to the sound engine. It is worth it. If you plan to primarily use headphones you do not need a CA98. So, you can get the CA78 in polished ebony finish for roughly the same price as a non-polished CA98 if that is what you looking for. If not, just get a CA78 in standard finish and save some money.

Anyway, you would need piano movers to carry any of these DPs due to their weight and bulkiness. So, you should ask them first if that staircase is an issue or not.

Re: Kawai CS11 dissasembly [Re: arc7urus] #2770544
10/08/18 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by arc7urus
Hi! I would also suggest you go with the CA78 or 98 instead of the CS 8/11 due to the sound engine. It is worth it. If you plan to primarily use headphones you do not need a CA98. So, you can get the CA78 in polished ebony finish for roughly the same price as a non-polished CA98 if that is what you looking for. If not, just get a CA78 in standard finish and save some money.

Anyway, you would need piano movers to carry any of these DPs due to their weight and bulkiness. So, you should ask them first if that staircase is an issue or not.


+1

Very good Suggestion..

Gandhi

Re: Kawai CS11 dissasembly [Re: berkut] #2771711
10/12/18 02:53 AM
10/12/18 02:53 AM
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berkut Offline OP
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Hello again all,

I have taken the plunge and ordered a new CS8 (I think I may have had one of the last in stock anywhere in the country). I spent a lot of time listening to the sound samples for the CA78 and the CS8 on Kawai's website and came to the conclusion that I'd rather have the nicer case of the CS8 over the improved sounds of the CA78. Also, not having to have the touch-screen interface is a bonus. I expect that I'll mainly be using the upright samples anyway which are identical on both pianos.

I want my digital piano to resemble my acoustic upright as much as possible, rather than an enormous grand. I wonder about why the sole focus of manufacturers is making digital pianos emulate the biggest and best grand pianos.

Anyway, I hope that I will be happy when my CS8 is delivered and thank you for all of your comments and opinions.

Re: Kawai CS11 dissasembly [Re: berkut] #2771794
10/12/18 09:20 AM
10/12/18 09:20 AM
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Posts: 500
So. Calif.
TomLC Offline
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Berkut, what upright piano do you have? I think this is the first you mentioned it. So the CS8 is just for practice?

Last edited by TomLC; 10/12/18 09:23 AM. Reason: Spell check - Aaaaaa

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Re: Kawai CS11 dissasembly [Re: berkut] #2771859
10/12/18 01:37 PM
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berkut Offline OP
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I have a fairly modern Kemble, which is an English make that was owned by Yamaha so my piano is mainly Yamaha parts inside (the frame and action). It's nothing special but I got it for a very good price and I've come to rather like it. It is quite short so the bass isn't as good as something like a U3 but it does for me.

Yes, the digital is so that I can play in my house without disturbing the neighbours.

Re: Kawai CS11 dissasembly [Re: berkut] #2771893
10/12/18 03:29 PM
10/12/18 03:29 PM
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So. Calif.
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I see that they offer the Yamada silent system in their new pianos. Did you consider having that installed?


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