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Sauter 182 Model V specs #2762383
09/01/18 06:19 AM
09/01/18 06:19 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 12
Brazil
F
Flux Offline OP
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Flux  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 12
Brazil
Dear members,

Having recently acquired a 1978 Sauter Model V 182 cm (luckily for me, it is indeed in a mint condition, practically brand new), I could not identify yet if its soundboard is made with "abete rosso" from Val di Fiemme or with local Bavarian "Sprunz". It comes with the decal “Echtes Qualitäts Tonholz - Eigenes Erzeugnis”. Does this mean that the soundboard is not Ciresa?

Could anyone please also clarify if are there significant differences between those two types of raw material for the production of the sound (pure beauty, absolutely mesmerizing, to my ears)? Does anyone happen to be familiar to other peculiarities concerning the construction of these especific early Sauter models and their differences to Delta 185 ones? (I contacted Sauter with no answer so far).

Thank you all very much!

C. Bechstein 8
Sauter V 182

Last edited by Flux23; 09/01/18 06:21 AM.

Flux

Sauter V 182
C Bechstein 8
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Re: Sauter 182 Model V specs [Re: Flux] #2762459
09/01/18 11:49 AM
09/01/18 11:49 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 50
M
mcontraveos Offline
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Posts: 50
Hello Flux23,

Are you asking for insurance or resale purposes?

Best wishes,
MC

Re: Sauter 182 Model V specs [Re: Flux] #2762697
09/02/18 08:41 AM
09/02/18 08:41 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 12
Brazil
F
Flux Offline OP
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Flux  Offline OP
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Posts: 12
Brazil
MC,

Thanks for the reply.

Neither one of these. I am truly interested in the technical specs of my new instrument. You know, I have been searching for my dream grand piano for the last 2 years and this forum brought me many enlightening tips in the process. That was my first post here, and it reflects my search for knowledge as much as possible about production characteristics and features of my V model (being an early model, there are much less info about it in the web than about Delta 185). And as I am totally happy with its sound and touch, it is unlikely I am going to sell it anytime in the future. (If ever, perhaps and only when and if I manage to afford a new Sauter Omega 220 or Concert 275).

Best wishes,

Flux

C. Bechstein 8
Sauter V 182


Flux

Sauter V 182
C Bechstein 8
Re: Sauter 182 Model V specs [Re: Flux] #2762716
09/02/18 10:15 AM
09/02/18 10:15 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 50
M
mcontraveos Offline
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Hi Flux,

Good to hear -- it sounds like you are very pleased with what you have and are motivated by sincere curiosity. I wasn't able to tell that from the original question.

I'm sorry to say that I can't be of much help here; I don't know these pianos well enough to give you accurate information.

The soundboard has, in my opinion, poorly-understood nuances in general, and there's a lot of discussion here regarding the importance of material (spruce? cedar? carbon-fiber? none of the above?), shape, and acceptable variances of those things.

I'm eager to read what others say on the matter. Thanks for a good question.
MC

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Re: Sauter 182 Model V specs [Re: Flux] #2762863
09/02/18 05:24 PM
09/02/18 05:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 13
California
V
Vuong Offline
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Vuong  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2014
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California
Hello Flux23:
From what I know of Sauter pianos, only the Omega 220 and some of the model M have the soundboard from Ciresa. Even the Delta 185 does not have the soundboard from Ciresa. Nevertheless the Delta 185 is a superb piano. I had one in the past and love it as much as you love your Model V 182.There are a lot of mythic attributions concerning the red spruce of the Val di Fiemme, notwithstanding the story of Antonio Stradivari using this Wood to build his violins which is true ( However he never visited the Val di Fiemme, as the owner of Ciresa confirmed it to me during my visit at the company not long ago ). The US once had also red spruce in the Appalachian mountains. Unfotunately they were all cut down by greedy logging companies. Even with a soundboard not made of red spruce of Val di Fiemme, your Sauter piano still produces a sound which you love very much. As your piano is still in mint condition, like brand new, you can have the peace of mind about owning a great piano which is surely meticulously built with all the finesse of construction. I can vouch for it, since I has had the opportunity to visit to the Sauter factory in Spaichingen in the recent past. So enjoy your piano as I have enjoyed mine.My regards.


VuongMinh Duc
Re: Sauter 182 Model V specs [Re: Flux] #2763015
09/03/18 07:54 AM
09/03/18 07:54 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 12
Brazil
F
Flux Offline OP
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Flux  Offline OP
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Brazil
MC,

thanks a lot for your reply. I do agree with you that the fine nuances of piano construction is almost as appealling as the ones in the art of music interpretation... LOL...we should talk more about soundboards. Cheers.


Vuong,

your answer was precious and detailed, thanks a lot!! I do envy your being to Spaichingen. I plan to do this next year. But I am burning out of curiosity: why did you left you Delta behind? Which piano are you currently owning/playing? How would you compare it to the Sauter? Once again, thank you very much.


Flux

Sauter V 182
C Bechstein 8
Re: Sauter 182 Model V specs [Re: Flux] #2763183
09/03/18 05:03 PM
09/03/18 05:03 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 13
California
V
Vuong Offline
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California
Flux:

Go to Spaichingen ! Go to Spaichingen !

However, because I visited Spaichingen I was able to rub my fingers on the Omega 220 and fell in love with it.and I am now the happy owner of the Sauter Omega 220. Obviously beside Spaichingen I also came into contact with other very good German pianos during my stay in Germany, including the Hamburg Steinway, but in the end I preferred the Sauter Omega 220. To be fair, even if I had not encountered the Omega 220, I would still enjoyed my Delta 185 very much and as a matter of fact I was quite sad on the day when it was carried out of my house.
So, be careful when you go to Spaichngen, may be try to close your eye when you see the Omega 220 and stay away from it unless you are not able to avoid its siren call and fell for it like me. By the way Spaichingen is in the middle of the beautiful Black Forest and do not miss a good slice of the tasty Black Forest cake.
For the time being continue to immerse yourself in the beautiful sound of your Sauter.


VuongMinh Duc
Re: Sauter 182 Model V specs [Re: Flux] #2763279
09/04/18 05:37 AM
09/04/18 05:37 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 12
Brazil
F
Flux Offline OP
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Flux  Offline OP
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Brazil
Vuong,

You are a very fortunate person indeed, and I am happy for you: wow... an Omega is a dream piano, that's for sure. My congratulations! Thank you very much for the tips and info. I will let you know when my trip comes closer. Perhaps I should bring ear pads with me, just in case... but the cake I won't let pass, that's a promise. Enjoy your piano. Hope it turns you always joyful. Keep me posted of your recordings, just in case you have any (and others with Sauter grand pianos). smile

Best wishes,

Flux

C. Bechstein 8
Sauter V 182


Flux

Sauter V 182
C Bechstein 8
Re: Sauter 182 Model V specs [Re: Flux] #2764910
09/12/18 07:53 AM
09/12/18 07:53 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 12
Brazil
F
Flux Offline OP
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Flux  Offline OP
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Brazil
Hi guys, just updating the conversation: I had the honor to receive a much detailed and satisfying answer from Mr. Ulrich Sauter himself, who kindly explained to me many specs about my particular piano (a tropicalized model), its soundboard (not abeto rosso, but with equal quality) and other aspects. I think this attitude from Sauter Company is a true evidence with their commitments to ALL costumers, regardless if they acquired their piano first or second hand. In the meantime, I am consolidating my initial impressions about my instrument: I could not ask for anything better, (except, maybe, "bigger", or perhaps just a finer adjustment, for after almost 40 years since its original preparation and intonation on the factory it deserves an optimal balance).

By the way, someone in PW asked me to join C. Bechstein club. I wonder if there is anywhere around here also a Sauter club. both companies deserve it... I am gladly inclined to join both.

Regards,

Flux

C. Bechstein 8
Sauter V 182


Flux

Sauter V 182
C Bechstein 8
Re: Sauter 182 Model V specs [Re: Flux] #2764971
09/12/18 01:33 PM
09/12/18 01:33 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 98
Singapore
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Wzkit1 Offline
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I'm not sure if there's a Sauter club on this forums (Sauter owners certainly seem to be fewer in number than a decade ago when I first joined Piano World!), but I've been a proud owner of a Sauter 185 Delta since 2006. Beautiful piano which i have spent much time and effort to maintain in as new condition as possible. I changed the hammers to softer and larger Abels than the factory spec, for the warmer tone that I prefer.

One of the videos of the Sauter is here


Sauter Delta 185, Bosendorfer 225, Ibach F III 215


Re: Sauter 182 Model V specs [Re: Flux] #2765305
09/13/18 06:18 PM
09/13/18 06:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 13
California
V
Vuong Offline
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Hello Flux

Just curious. Where did you buy your Sauter piano? As you stated, it is in min condition, almost brand new. I guess you bought it from a private party ? The owner might not have played it very much ?


VuongMinh Duc
Re: Sauter 182 Model V specs [Re: Flux] #2767146
09/23/18 08:24 AM
09/23/18 08:24 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 12
Brazil
F
Flux Offline OP
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Brazil
Hi Wizkit1,

For different reasons, only last night I came across the last two messages on the topic.

Thank you very much for your post and video. You are so generous to share your instrument and playing with us. Because of it, I found out some other videos you have made available on YouTube, practically all of them executed in this wonderful piano of yours, and with such a devotion in your performance... And also I have read some of your interesting posts to other topics in PW.

Anyway, for all your contributions, my most sincere congratulations! Eventually, I would like to get tips for maintaining my own Sauter in its present condition for as long as possible, and some insights about diffferent hammer heads and other specs, if you don't mind.

And if you don't bother my curiosity, your other pianos, the Bosie 225 and Ibach 215, are they newer or older than your Delta? How would you describe your experiences playing all these diverse instruments? Would you classify them in order of the "best sounding piano" (regardless of the size)?

For now, live longer and prosper.


Flux


Sauter V 182
C. Bechstein 8


Flux

Sauter V 182
C Bechstein 8
Re: Sauter 182 Model V specs [Re: Vuong] #2767148
09/23/18 08:42 AM
09/23/18 08:42 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 12
Brazil
F
Flux Offline OP
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Flux  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 12
Brazil
Originally Posted by Vuong
Hello Flux

Just curious. Where did you buy your Sauter piano? As you stated, it is in min condition, almost brand new. I guess you bought it from a private party ? The owner might not have played it very much ?



Hi Vuong,

I bought my Sauter in Brazil, where I live. A Dutch former music teacher, married to someone here some 20 years ago and moved in here, living in a town not very far from me. The piano, which was acquired some 15 years before in Amsterdam, came along with him. Despite being a music teacher, he seldom played it, but has always kept it in a very good shape.

We can notice that it is practically new for some details: almost imperceptible (and very few) scratches in the cabinet; not a single light mark of strings anywhere in the hammer heads; the action is perfectly smooth.

But most of all, the extra (warm) velvety and fresh sound give me the impression as if it was just in the beginning of its "blooming"... as if the piano still has a journey until it is fully "open".

Best wishes

Flux


Sauter V 182
C. Bechstein 8


Flux

Sauter V 182
C Bechstein 8
Re: Sauter 182 Model V specs [Re: Flux] #2767193
09/23/18 01:48 PM
09/23/18 01:48 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 98
Singapore
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Wzkit1 Offline
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Originally Posted by Flux
Hi Wizkit1,

For different reasons, only last night I came across the last two messages on the topic.

Thank you very much for your post and video. You are so generous to share your instrument and playing with us. Because of it, I found out some other videos you have made available on YouTube, practically all of them executed in this wonderful piano of yours, and with such a devotion in your performance... And also I have read some of your interesting posts to other topics in PW.

Anyway, for all your contributions, my most sincere congratulations! Eventually, I would like to get tips for maintaining my own Sauter in its present condition for as long as possible, and some insights about diffferent hammer heads and other specs, if you don't mind.

And if you don't bother my curiosity, your other pianos, the Bosie 225 and Ibach 215, are they newer or older than your Delta? How would you describe your experiences playing all these diverse instruments? Would you classify them in order of the "best sounding piano" (regardless of the size)?

For now, live longer and prosper.


Flux


Sauter V 182
C. Bechstein 8


Thanks Flux. I think the trick to maintaining the Sauter is climate control. Sauter, like many other German pianos, is highly sensitive to humidity swings, despite the piano being tropicalized. I found the tone much more susceptible to variability along with the weather, as say compared to my Shigeru SK-6, which I used to own (now sold)

In the highly humid tropical conditions that exist in Singapore (>70-80% RH most of the time), having the aircon turned on 24/7 is probably the best way to keep the piano as new as possible. Although it is sometimes recommended to use a heater to keep the humidity, my experience of many pianos with heaters installed but no aircon hasn’t been that positive. There was a period of about 2 years which I did not keep my Sauter in an aircon environment, and the sound became mushier and muffled. It took around a year or so of staying in aircon environment for it to regain the clarity with warmth that you hear in the recording. If aircon is not possible, a recommended alternative is a room dehumidifier,

As for the Bosendorfer and Ibach, both were purchased as used instruments back in 2014, so their condition really can’t be compared to the Sauter, which is as good as new even after 12 years.. The Bosendorfer dates from 1992 and was privately owned. Although the hammers were quite worn and harsh when I purchased it, I could hear the potential in terms of the depth and thickness of tone (which tells me that the soundboard was still OK). All it needed was a good voicing and regulation job to restore it to a more than acceptable level of performance. Of course, the Bosendorfer tone is completely different from Sauter - probably warmer with more complex overtones, but a less powerful and pure treble sustain that the Sauter.

Overall, most who have played both pianos would say the Bosendorfer’s darker, bigger tone is slightly more versatile across repertoire, but the Sauter really excels in the Ravel, Debussy and Chopin - all music that requires clarity in the treble, and the ability to play really softly .


Sauter Delta 185, Bosendorfer 225, Ibach F III 215


Re: Sauter 182 Model V specs [Re: Flux] #2767286
09/24/18 03:41 AM
09/24/18 03:41 AM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 266
North Vancouver
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Lady Bird Offline
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Hi you need to let know about this Sauter club ???Just joking ! Maybe those with Sauter upright pianos may join ???! There are a few of us around .,we have been called Sauterines by a Bluthner member ! By the way I have tried the Sauter grand called Ambiance by Maly .It was a wonderful experience so rich in tone and powerful .Yes Ulrich Sauter is a real good guy .I contacted him a few times when we were deciding on our 130 Upright and after it was delivered to our home .He invited us to Spaichingen as well but no more grands for us .If ,I doubt there will be an if ,we ever get another Sauter piano it be be smaller .Only smaller now as we are on the wrong side of 60 .Can't stop thinking about cake now ,and I have to sleep now ! Enjoy your wonderful pianos you guys .

Re: Sauter 182 Model V specs [Re: Flux] #2768325
09/29/18 08:13 AM
09/29/18 08:13 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 12
Brazil
F
Flux Offline OP
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Flux  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 12
Brazil
Hello Wzkit, how r u doing?

Let's see...

"I think the trick to maintaining the Sauter is climate control. Sauter, like many other German pianos, is highly sensitive to humidity swings"..

You are totally correct. Mr. Sauter himself advised me about it. Now, my hygrometer (with a sensor inside the cabinet) shows that the variation is from 65% to 55% to 65% RH along the day (early morning, noon, late evening). Is that acceptable? For it is insanely expensive to maintain an AC turned on 24/7 here. It is been with me for almost a month and, so far, it does not seem to be mushier and muffled.

and

"Bosendorfer’s darker, bigger tone is slightly more versatile across repertoire"... hmmm... how come we compare a 185 to a 225 piano and not find that the bigger, the darker? Longer strings normally make a growler sound...

By the way, you did not mention your Ibach... what's about it?

Thank you very much, best regards,

Flux

Sauter V 182
C. Bechstein 8


Flux

Sauter V 182
C Bechstein 8
Re: Sauter 182 Model V specs [Re: Flux] #2768328
09/29/18 08:25 AM
09/29/18 08:25 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 12
Brazil
F
Flux Offline OP
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Flux  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2016
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Brazil
Dear Lady Bird,

Thanks for your kind post!

"Maybe those with Sauter upright pianos may join ???! There are a few of us around .,we have been called Sauterines by a Bluthner member!"

Well, there is yet no Sauter club as long as I know, but we could create one, why not? And, of course, with grands or uprights all Sauterines are welcome..

The cake story is for when we all decide to plan an excursion to Spaichingen, how about it? Perhaps next year?

"Only smaller now as we are on the wrong side of 60"... being myself in the wrong side of 50, I still think the quality of sound is a joy forever, and the bigger is almost always the better...

Best wishes,

Flux

Sauter V 182
C. Bechstein 8


Flux

Sauter V 182
C Bechstein 8
Re: Sauter 182 Model V specs [Re: Flux] #2768450
09/29/18 08:22 PM
09/29/18 08:22 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 266
North Vancouver
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Lady Bird Offline
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North Vancouver
Thank you Flux yes a joy forever .Here, s to cake in Spaichingen !
...

Re: Sauter 182 Model V specs [Re: Flux] #2770222
10/07/18 09:48 AM
10/07/18 09:48 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 98
Singapore
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Wzkit1 Offline
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Singapore
Originally Posted by Flux
Hello Wzkit, how r u doing?

Let's see...

"I think the trick to maintaining the Sauter is climate control. Sauter, like many other German pianos, is highly sensitive to humidity swings"..

You are totally correct. Mr. Sauter himself advised me about it. Now, my hygrometer (with a sensor inside the cabinet) shows that the variation is from 65% to 55% to 65% RH along the day (early morning, noon, late evening). Is that acceptable? For it is insanely expensive to maintain an AC turned on 24/7 here. It is been with me for almost a month and, so far, it does not seem to be mushier and muffled.

and

"Bosendorfer’s darker, bigger tone is slightly more versatile across repertoire"... hmmm... how come we compare a 185 to a 225 piano and not find that the bigger, the darker? Longer strings normally make a growler sound...

By the way, you did not mention your Ibach... what's about it?

Thank you very much, best regards,

Flux

Sauter V 182
C. Bechstein 8



The Bosendorfer and Sauter have completely different characters, but I'd dare say despite its size, the Sauter actually has a "growlier" bass than the Bosendorfer. Could be a function of design, or simply the age of the Bosendorfer (almost 30 years old!)

As for the Ibach, its actually no longer at my home, but stored at my dealer. It was used, originally made in 1987 and used in a local school. As one can expect, the condition wasn't so good, especially the action, which was completely shot and "loose". It certainly needed a reconditioning of the action. It does however retain elements of the gorgeous Ibach fat treble sustain and bloom that has seldom been equalled in other makes - including Sauter and Bosendorfer. The downside though is that the Ibach bass is a comparatively weak bass that lacks depth (though not brightness or "growl") compared to the Sauter. Overall, when in new condition, I would characterise the Ibach as an almost perfect "bel canto" instrument.


Sauter Delta 185, Bosendorfer 225, Ibach F III 215


Re: Sauter 182 Model V specs [Re: Flux] #2770245
10/07/18 11:40 AM
10/07/18 11:40 AM
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Posts: 31
Berkshires, MA
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Bill Reed Offline
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I took a spin on a 9' Sauter at Bheetoven's in NYC a few months ago, and it's one of the few pianos among the big names that I felt lust for.


_________________________________
August Forster 190
Re: Sauter 182 Model V specs [Re: Wzkit1] #2771363
10/11/18 09:35 AM
10/11/18 09:35 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 12
Brazil
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Flux Offline OP
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Flux  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2016
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Brazil
Wzkit

"...but I'd dare say despite its size, the Sauter actually has a "growlier" bass than the Bosendorfer."

Wow!! So, it is an even more remarkable instrument, isn't it? I have heard that Omega model beats everyother brand in this field, from Steinway B to Bluthner 2... would that be true? Very few can try for themselves...

As for your Ibach, your description of a piano perfect "Bel Canto" like is similar to what Paolo Fazioli tells about his brand... do you think there are similarities between them?


Flux

Sauter V 182
C Bechstein 8
Re: Sauter 182 Model V specs [Re: Flux] #2771407
10/11/18 11:17 AM
10/11/18 11:17 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 98
Singapore
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Wzkit1 Offline
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Singapore
Originally Posted by Flux
Wzkit

"...but I'd dare say despite its size, the Sauter actually has a "growlier" bass than the Bosendorfer."

Wow!! So, it is an even more remarkable instrument, isn't it? I have heard that Omega model beats everyother brand in this field, from Steinway B to Bluthner 2... would that be true? Very few can try for themselves...

As for your Ibach, your description of a piano perfect "Bel Canto" like is similar to what Paolo Fazioli tells about his brand... do you think there are similarities between them?



The treble of an Ibach is very different from a Fazioli. I'd say the Ibach has a fatter treble tone with more bloom, while the equivalent Fazioli has a slightly thinner, but clearer tone ( to my ears at least). Fazioli's bass wins hands down however. - much deeper and clearer

As for the Sauter Omega, different samples left me with different impressions, but the best of them indeed had the strongest bass for any instrument of its size


Sauter Delta 185, Bosendorfer 225, Ibach F III 215


Re: Sauter 182 Model V specs [Re: Bill Reed] #2771755
10/12/18 08:49 AM
10/12/18 08:49 AM
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Posts: 12
Brazil
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Flux Offline OP
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Brazil
Originally Posted by Bill Reed
I took a spin on a 9' Sauter at Bheetoven's in NYC a few months ago, and it's one of the few pianos among the big names that I felt lust for.



Bill

Your comment meets my opinion that Sauter's admirers are not that scarse, as someone suggested in one of these forums.

By the way, have you ever tried a Sauter Delta (185)? How would you compare it to your AF (190)?

Regards


Flux

Sauter V 182
C Bechstein 8
Re: Sauter 182 Model V specs [Re: Wzkit1] #2771761
10/12/18 08:57 AM
10/12/18 08:57 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 12
Brazil
F
Flux Offline OP
Junior Member
Flux  Offline OP
Junior Member
F

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 12
Brazil

Fazioli's bass wins hands down however. - much deeper and clearer


You know, these things happen: last year, in S. Paulo, I tried a Fazioli 228. It was a great disappointment. Perhaps, this "preparation" condition is sometimes more decisive than the quality of raw materials and designs... I am not the best to say. But the SK 5 right next to it sounded much, much better...


Flux

Sauter V 182
C Bechstein 8

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