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Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: lvercaut] #2751402
07/14/18 06:21 AM
07/14/18 06:21 AM
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https://soundcloud.com/productionvoices/sets/concert-grand

I think we'll see the release of the full concert grand lite,gold and platinum (Steinway D) of Production voices real soon now...........

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Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: TheodorN] #2751403
07/14/18 06:32 AM
07/14/18 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by TheodorN
Ivory II Grand pianos, sterile and pale sounding, you say tdwctdwc. I'm not overly surprised, opinions seem to differ quite a bit on Synthogy's pianos, some like them, some loathe them.

It got me thinking, however.

Why are we seeking libraries around the 100GB mark, let alone hundreds of gigabytes in size, when they are only marginally better, and in some cases not any better, or even inferior to libraries few gigabytes, and up to 40GB in size?

Good point TheodorN. I can only speak on my behalf: When i look to try a new library it's because of one single goal in mind: Exploration of different color palettes and seeking inspiration, because after all, the sound of a piano will inspire me to compose. And we're fortunate enough nowdays to be able to explore real-life grand pianos on our computers (even though half of them have playbality issues).

I don't look at the size at all when i seek a piano library, the only thing i care about is the velocity layers and the timbre. In fact, the less the size the better!

Biggest example is the 5 GB Ravenscroft 275 which is still until this very day my absolute favorite piano library to play and get inspired from when playing at the same time.

Exploring other options is simply out of curiosity and like i said: Looking for more inspiration.

Speaking of Ravenscroft, listen to this till the end. Pure Magic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvlFr7DFr3o

Last edited by tdwctdwc; 07/14/18 06:36 AM.
Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: pianistje] #2751404
07/14/18 06:40 AM
07/14/18 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by pianistje
https://soundcloud.com/productionvoices/sets/concert-grand

I think we'll see the release of the full concert grand lite,gold and platinum (Steinway D) of Production voices real soon now...........


I'm impressed with these demos. Even though the first song is LE version, it looks pretty good.

Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: tdwctdwc] #2751538
07/14/18 05:26 PM
07/14/18 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by tdwctdwc

Biggest example is the 5 GB Ravenscroft 275 which is still until this very day my absolute favorite piano library to play


In fact it is so good that I had to ask you if you recorded the tracks using a real acoustic piano! I don't have Ravenscroft, but on this forum is too underrated.

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Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: pold] #2751542
07/14/18 05:34 PM
07/14/18 05:34 PM
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Moscow, Russia
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Originally Posted by pold
Originally Posted by tdwctdwc

Biggest example is the 5 GB Ravenscroft 275 which is still until this very day my absolute favorite piano library to play


In fact it is so good that I had to ask you if you recorded the tracks using a real acoustic piano! I don't have Ravenscroft, but on this forum is too underrated.


Yes, all VIlabs pianos are very underrated here! I missed VIlabs - True keys Pianos bundle incredible deal on VSTBuzz for 90USD and regret it very much! frown


Casio PX-350
Komplete 10 Ult.: UVI - Falcon; Pianoteq - 6 Std; Galaxy - Vintage D, Vienna Grand; PV - Concert Grand LE, Production Grand - 2 LE, Estate Grand; Lounge Lizard EP-4; Neo-Soul Keys; AS - C7 Grand; Addictive Keys- All
Zoom UAC-2; Matrix M-Stage Classic 2 - Beyers DT-880 PRO; JBL - LSR305
Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: pold] #2751544
07/14/18 05:41 PM
07/14/18 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by pold
Originally Posted by tdwctdwc

Biggest example is the 5 GB Ravenscroft 275 which is still until this very day my absolute favorite piano library to play


In fact it is so good that I had to ask you if you recorded the tracks using a real acoustic piano! I don't have Ravenscroft, but on this forum is too underrated.
I was just playing it now:) This and my Kronos Steinway D got me covered on a desert island. But like i said, we're too spoiled and there's nothing wrong in seeking other flavors to trigger new inspirations.

If you ever decide to buy the Ravenscroft, i'll send you the same exact settings i used in those demos:)

Last edited by tdwctdwc; 07/14/18 05:42 PM.
Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: Max_Forte] #2751546
07/14/18 05:45 PM
07/14/18 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Max_Forte
Originally Posted by pold
Originally Posted by tdwctdwc

Biggest example is the 5 GB Ravenscroft 275 which is still until this very day my absolute favorite piano library to play


In fact it is so good that I had to ask you if you recorded the tracks using a real acoustic piano! I don't have Ravenscroft, but on this forum is too underrated.


Yes, all VIlabs pianos are very underrated here! I missed VIlabs - True keys Pianos bundle incredible deal on VSTBuzz for 90USD and regret it very much! frown
Yes i remember that deal, i jumped on it right away. I should revisit this bundle tomorrow and play it for a good hour.

Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: tdwctdwc] #2751547
07/14/18 05:51 PM
07/14/18 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by tdwctdwc
Originally Posted by pold
Originally Posted by tdwctdwc

Biggest example is the 5 GB Ravenscroft 275 which is still until this very day my absolute favorite piano library to play


In fact it is so good that I had to ask you if you recorded the tracks using a real acoustic piano! I don't have Ravenscroft, but on this forum is too underrated.
I was just playing it now:) This and my Kronos Steinway D got me covered on a desert island. But like i said, we're too spoiled and there's nothing wrong in seeking other flavors to trigger new inspirations.

If you ever decide to buy the Ravenscroft, i'll send you the same exact settings i used in those demos:)



Thank you, I will trust your ears and have no doubts about your good taste smile

Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: bsntn99] #2757066
08/09/18 09:48 AM
08/09/18 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by bsntn99
Hopefully not getting too much off topic, but here is a photo what I was talking about. I had to scale the picture down. So, hopefully it's not too blurry. This only works in the full Kontakt.

[Linked Image]

1. This is the wrench icon where you shift into edit mode.
2. Select Expert to see the sample groups. Note the top 0-87 are the normal sustains. Note not all the sustain groups are visible here. The special groups are at the bottom.
3. Select the Group Editor.
4. Select the Repedal Loud group.
5. Adjust the volume of the group to taste. It is set too high initially. So is the Repdal Soft group, but not as bad.
6. The Group Solo button can be used to isolate a particular group so you only hear that group as you make adjustments.
7. This shows which groups are playing. Here I hit C2, G2, C3 and then repedaled quickly. You can't see the sustain samples played as they are too far up the list to fit on the screen.
Save the adjusted instrument patch with a unique name so as to not overwrite the original.

With the Grandeur, the repedal groups are set high. If you hear artifacts with the repedal off, then it may be the release or resonance samples that need adjusting. The normal front panel controls let you do this, but you can make adjustments here as well. Similar adjustments can be made to Vintage D as Uli programmed both libraries.

Repedals on the Grandeur and Vintage D are most noticeable on the lower third of the key range, barely in the middle, and pretty much non-existent on the upper third. This has to do with volume of the samples which are separate groups. For the Garritan CFX as an example, the repedal notes don't tail off in volume as much going up the keyboard as they used the more common technique of fast forwarding into the sustain sample which therefore matches the volume on the regular samples. IMO, this more closely replicates an acoustic piano. Hope this helps and sorry again if too off topic.




Hello,
I apologize for semi-necroing this thread, I wasn't around here for a while. Just wanted to reply to bsntn99 and say thank you very much for this. I finally tried this out and it actually worked. I could lower the value from -6 to somewhere around -12 or -14 and then the glitchy sounds are almost gone. When silencing it completely, the glitch is fully gone as well. Now I just have to figure out how to save the instrument under a different name because I think I overwrote my original file, but I had a backup so I could restore it. Anyway, I just wanted to say that I appreciate that you took the time to write these instructions and post the images. Greatly appreciated.

Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: lvercaut] #2792646
12/18/18 09:53 AM
12/18/18 09:53 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 292
Aberdeen, UK
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Rychubil Offline
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Hi
I am hesitate between two german Steinways: Ivory and Galaxy. I am not struggling for big quantities of sample. The most important for me is: warm sound, playability and possibly lack af issues.

Originally Posted by Grazilerimba

American Concert D is probably among the most playable VSTs out there, even more playable than the Garritan CFX in my book. It has a couple of problems though:
- No real resoances (not too many people feel bothered by that), some weird issues with decay of the modeled resonances when repedaling, and very short decay when compared to the German D from Ivory II.
- The third point that I mentioned is that both the note length as well as the modelled resonances decay a lot faster than in the German D. I have to crank up Shimmer super high and use reverb and extra resonant soundboard settings, and it will still not be satisfactory. I don't understand what the problem is because in the German D, the notes and the resonances are acceptably long (not as long as in VSTs that have real pedal down samples, mind you).

I had an American Ivory and I gave up, cause too short decay among others.
Does really noticable longer decay in german Ivory than in american?

Originally Posted by Grazilerimba

Vintage D on the other hand is also really nicely playable but I found that sometimes it has similar noises and flaws, I managed to get the same kind of repedal plucking string noise a few times (but not as often as with the Grandeur), also the samples aren't clean at all. I can sometimes hear noises while playing, which happens as the notes decay. Really weird. At least it will let you configure the time after which the note decays if you disable release samples.

How about noises in decay on Vintage D? Are really irritated?

Originally Posted by -Jay-

Galaxy Vintage D isn’t really great for half-pedalling

How about repedaling compare to Ivory german?

Thank you for any advices.


Roland FP-30, Synthogy Ivory II Grand Pianos, Production Voices-Compact Grand, Yamaha Reface CP, Zoom MS-70CDR
Neumann KH120, Mackie Big Knob Passive, Beyerdynamic DT-990 pro, Audio-Technica ATH-M50X, UiiSii CM5
Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: lvercaut] #2792800
12/18/18 06:02 PM
12/18/18 06:02 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,514
Raleigh, North Carolina
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Raleigh, North Carolina
Seeing that this thread has been resurrected ... I have a keen interest in the earlier post by bstn99 found HERE ... because I have and like the Grandeur piano.

bstn99 ... I looked can you explain what it is that you are fixing with your modifications?

Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: Rychubil] #2792948
12/19/18 06:05 AM
12/19/18 06:05 AM
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Posts: 78
Zurich
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Smaug Offline
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Originally Posted by Rychubil
I am hesitate between two german Steinways: Ivory and Galaxy. I am not struggling for big quantities of sample. The most important for me is: warm sound, playability and possibly lack af issues.


You can play both Galaxy and Ivory on try-sound. There is a delay, but you can test noise, decay and timbre:
https://www.bestservice.com/try-sound.html

I have both and my preference is for Galaxy. They're both well sampled, but I prefer the woodiness in the upper-mids of Galaxy and the Ivory una corda samples have too much hiss when used with the sustain pedal.

Last edited by Smaug; 12/19/18 06:08 AM.
Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: Smaug] #2792965
12/19/18 07:50 AM
12/19/18 07:50 AM
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Aberdeen, UK
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Rychubil Offline
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Originally Posted by Smaug
‎I have both and my preference is for Galaxy. They're both well sampled, but I prefer the woodiness in the upper-mids of Galaxy and the Ivory una corda samples have too much hiss when used with the sustain pedal.


Thank you Smaug for sharing your opinion. I'll be keep on mind.‎

Last edited by Rychubil; 12/19/18 07:51 AM.

Roland FP-30, Synthogy Ivory II Grand Pianos, Production Voices-Compact Grand, Yamaha Reface CP, Zoom MS-70CDR
Neumann KH120, Mackie Big Knob Passive, Beyerdynamic DT-990 pro, Audio-Technica ATH-M50X, UiiSii CM5
Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: Rychubil] #2793102
12/19/18 02:44 PM
12/19/18 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Rychubil
Hi
I am hesitate between two german Steinways: Ivory and Galaxy. I am not struggling for big quantities of sample. The most important for me is: warm sound, playability and possibly lack af issues.

I had an American Ivory and I gave up, cause too short decay among others.
Does really noticable longer decay in german Ivory than in american?

How about noises in decay on Vintage D? Are really irritated?

How about repedaling compare to Ivory german?

Thank you for any advices.


The Ivory German Steinway is OLD now, and by old I mean visibly lacking velocity layers which significantly undermine its playability. From my one play of it, the tone was okay, but has the typical Ivory house sound, i.e. mid-distant, somewhat ambient, vintage sound even when the instrument isn't, slightly artificial and processed.

The Galaxy Vintage D sounds better, and in some ways plays better, but if you think the decay on the Ivory ACD was too short, that one is even worse in my view. Also the usual limitations of Kontakt, i.e. pedal issues, scripting problems, poor quality reverb.

If you want the best German D software, it's just been released. The VSL Steinway D, which is a Hamburg instrument, is in a completely different class to the above two, in terms of both sound and playability. Unfortunately the price is also in a different class, though it's effectively discounted by EUR200 until the end of December so if you want it, now's the time to get it.


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: karvala] #2793179
12/19/18 06:13 PM
12/19/18 06:13 PM
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Aberdeen, UK
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Rychubil Offline
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Thank you for your response karvala.

Originally Posted by karvala

The Ivory German Steinway is OLD now, and by old I mean visibly lacking velocity layers which significantly undermine its playability.  From my one play of it, the tone was okay, but has the typical Ivory house sound, i.e. mid-distant, somewhat ambient, vintage sound even when the instrument isn't, slightly artificial and processed.

The Galaxy Vintage D sounds better, and in some ways plays better, but if you think the decay on the Ivory ACD was too short, that one is even worse in my view.  Also the usual limitations of Kontakt, i.e. pedal issues, scripting problems, poor quality reverb.


I admit - it makes me a bit sad.

Originally Posted by karvala

If you want the best German D software, it's just been released.  The VSL Steinway D, which is a Hamburg instrument, is in a completely different class to the above two, in terms of both sound and playability.  Unfortunately the price is also in a different class, though it's effectively discounted by EUR200 until the end of December so if you want it, now's the time to get it.


Yes, I know and I follow every post on our forum about VSL Steinway D. I am fall in love in this sound. This is German Steinway VSTI  of my dreams but the price of instrument isn't major problem for me. My laptop already is upgraded from 4GB to 8GB. It's poor hardware for this VSL.

How about discount? I already can see €245 form €285. ‎


Roland FP-30, Synthogy Ivory II Grand Pianos, Production Voices-Compact Grand, Yamaha Reface CP, Zoom MS-70CDR
Neumann KH120, Mackie Big Knob Passive, Beyerdynamic DT-990 pro, Audio-Technica ATH-M50X, UiiSii CM5
Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: Rychubil] #2793190
12/19/18 06:47 PM
12/19/18 06:47 PM
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I would not recommend the Productionvoices Concert Grand. Its release version has plenty of severe bugs, it was never fixed. Even months after its release you can still not actually buy the full version. The developers offered hard drive shipping for a few weeks, but then changed the availability "out of stock".
Originally Posted by Rychubil
Hi
I am hesitate between two german Steinways: Ivory and Galaxy. I am not struggling for big quantities of sample. The most important for me is: warm sound, playability and possibly lack af issues.

@Rychubil

Quote
I had an American Ivory and I gave up, cause too short decay among others.
Does really noticable longer decay in german Ivory than in american?



How about noises in decay on Vintage D? Are really irritated?


How about repedaling compare to Ivory german?



Yes I would say the Decay in the German C is significantly better. The problem with the ACD is not only the decay of the note samples itself, but rather the resonance engine. Ivory simulates sustain resonance and you can edit its parameters. I found that, when using the same parameters in the German D and the ACD, the resonance would be much longer in the German D than in the ACD. In the ACD, it disappears very quickly. So it's not just the notes, it's something in the resonance engine. I have no idea why this happens. But it's the main reason why the ACD doesn't sound too good IMHO. The ACD is still a very playable instrument though, right up there with Garritan CDX and VSL's Synchron Series.

The noise in the Vintage D is nothing that you'd encounter all the time, but I find it noticeable if I just press the pedal down and press a lot of chords and keys and just listen to them. After a few seconds, I'll hear small noises here and there. Not as bad as in the Embertone Walker where you hear a loud THUD in one of the samples' beginning or, for example, the Productionvoices Estate Grand.

Repedaling in Ivory is one of its best things. You can configure repedaling and half pedaling and set options to make it fit to your particular DP or pedal. I'd say the repedaling of Ivory II is among the best for sampled pianos, with that said it doesn't have sustain resonance samples.

Re: Looking for the very best German Steinway D software [Re: Grazilerimba] #2793220
12/19/18 08:28 PM
12/19/18 08:28 PM
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Aberdeen, UK
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Rychubil Offline
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Thank you for your opinion Grazilerimba about Galaxy and Ivory. I have lot points for consideration now. 

According to the Production Voices Compact Grand. 
I have standard version of this VSTI, which I purchased for $19. Last time I play more and more often on the PV Compact Grand and this time I discovered quite unpleasant sounds at the lowest velocities, fortunately only in some sounds (d, f, f#, b1, c#2):
https://m.soundcloud.com/rychubil/ste-012w

Last edited by Rychubil; 12/19/18 08:31 PM.

Roland FP-30, Synthogy Ivory II Grand Pianos, Production Voices-Compact Grand, Yamaha Reface CP, Zoom MS-70CDR
Neumann KH120, Mackie Big Knob Passive, Beyerdynamic DT-990 pro, Audio-Technica ATH-M50X, UiiSii CM5
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