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Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraber E-272 [Re: TheodorN] #2752443
07/18/18 06:40 PM
07/18/18 06:40 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,619
Europe
JoeT Offline
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Originally Posted by karvala
I don't really get it. I tried it, it was okay, but very similar to the Grotrian. The tone is slightly more focused and less flabby than the Steinway D, for example, and maybe that's what people like? Honestly, though, to me it sounds like a small incremental change at best, and I'm not sure I even prefer over the other Pianoteq instruments.

What am I missing? This is all through headphones; are you guys using speakers/monitors? Are you adjusting the settings in some way? I'm genuinely curious.

Originally Posted by EssBrace
I use headphones. But I don't think that is helping or hindering.

I agree with you entirely. I don't feel it's some kind of leap forward. More of the same to my ears. Not bad. Very playable. But there's still this odd resonant ringing accompanying everything, all the time. It's not nice to my ears. And, like all modelled sounds, if you really smack it in the bass area it's just metallic clanking. Individual notes have that sine wave type of feel.

I occasionally play PT and always use the Grotrian Prelude patch. It's okay - great dynamics. Nice for a change for half an hour. Then I return to a sampled sound and everything falls back into place for me, sonically speaking.

I congratulate PT however on their policy of continuing development. It is edging forward with each update.

Originally Posted by CyberGene
Downloaded the latest demo version of Pianoteq. Well, I guess it won't be a surprise that I simply can't get along with Pianoteq. And Steingraeber is no exception.

The very first notes I played were in the bass and there's this usual feeling of a sound that brings reminiscences of Mozart's time pianoforte, modern Yamaha CP80 electric grand, gypsy cymbalom and even a distant hint of a harpsichord. Which is even more pronounced the louder you play. And going across the keyboard there's still that nasal quality to the sound.

I am already 100% positive - there are people who love Pianoteq and those who dislike it and that won't ever change. Unless they change the entire engine. I don't personally need new piano brands recreated. I need a considerable refactoring of the underlying engine.

Originally Posted by TheodorN
What I've found is my biggest gripe with Pianoteq, is this high pitched piercing sound in the middle and high registers. The bass is all right, most VSTis, sampled and modelled, seem to get the low end right. Whether it's the easiest part to get right, the deep low frequency areas of the piano, I don't know, but I can't think of any virtual piano I've heard, with horrible sounding bass.

I don't know if I'm hearing anything others don't hear, we are all different in what we hear, and what our preferences are. I compared the sound of the Steingraeber in the above video, with the related YouTube video below, a Chopin piece played on a real piano. When the pianist was playing the middle and higher registers, it didn't hurt my ears as the Steingraeber, and most of the Pianoteq piano models, as far as I can recall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9oQEa-d5rU

Well said. And I have something to add:

I just tried out the Steingraeber demo myself and the first thing I noticed immediately was:

I didn't hear a Steingraeber piano.
I heard a Pianoteq 6.2.1!

This is entirely different with samples and I don't know why: When I use those I distinctively hear a Steinway, a Yamaha or a Kawai.

But Pianoteq has its own signature and it is in all "instrument models". It is so dominant, that at least for the more recent models of modern pianos, I cannot pretend anymore, that it is a different piano. And because I can't go back to believing, I think I exhausted the illusion of adding different instrument models to my Pianoteq library.


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7605
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Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraber E-272 [Re: pold] #2752577
07/19/18 08:52 AM
07/19/18 08:52 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,381
Sweden
TheodorN Offline
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Sweden
Stamkorg I have tried with EQ, and not found the sweet spot, but I might try again.

Originally Posted by pold
compare it to this, without watching
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wmx5wpDyCFM

I'm not sure what's your point, but I listened to this, while watching, though I don't think it changed anything. If you're implying this (real) grand piano recording is also a bit high pitched, it is, but not quite like the Steingraeber. It sounded more like a Bösendorfer, a little hollow sounding, but nice sound nevertheless.


My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraber E-272 [Re: Tom Fort] #2752584
07/19/18 09:15 AM
07/19/18 09:15 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 172
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Posts: 172
I appreciate and respect everyone’s taste who loves pianteq. I probably gave pianteq chances more than I did to anything/anyone in my life because I want to try so hard to make it my main piano and end this searching for the perfect sampled piano venture, but each and everytime I try it again, it fails miserably timbre wise. Its mid registers sound worse that the first Casio toy keyboard I received when I was 5 years old. It’s a shame because it has a very powerful bass and organic high registers, but the mid registers tip the scale so bad to the point where it’s useless to keep giving it more chances.

I’m glad I bought the 6.1 standard version only because i’m curious how far updates will lift it in terms of realism.

Luckily, I have a sampled piano which I believe is hands down the most playabale and accurately detailed sounding piano and it’s currently the number 1 candidate for me to use for my next solo piano album. Im talking about the Garritan CFX.

Last edited by tdwctdwc; 07/19/18 09:17 AM.
Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraber E-272 [Re: Tom Fort] #2752887
07/20/18 08:54 PM
07/20/18 08:54 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 155
Boston/Cambridge
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Fleer Online content
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Boston/Cambridge
If you like sampled grands, you need to try the Embertone 1955 Steinway. Not as playable as Pianoteq, mind you.

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Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraber E-272 [Re: Tom Fort] #2760682
08/24/18 09:06 AM
08/24/18 09:06 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 93
Michigan USA
T
TonyDIGITAL Offline
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Posts: 93
Michigan USA
First I updates my 6.1.1 to 6.2.2 and was surprised how much better my existing pianos (Steinway D, K2, Bluethner) are sounding (more lively, more punch, pleasant attack compared to sampled VST such as CFX/Fazioli/Ravenscroft and very clean sounding without hurting my ears on the higher registers). The Steinway D is now more present, almost coming to live, K2 less ear piercing on higher registers and especially the Bluethner now back to the original glory when I bought it with Piaonoteq V5.
But then I tried the Steingraeber E-272 and wow, every key press seems to be having a particular character of its own: you can follow the sound made for a long time even having other subsequent keys pressed during sustain. And I believe: for the first time I can recognize whether I have too much sustain going on a VST. On an acoustic it becomes quickly obvious if you have too much resonance but now I can hear it in Pianoteq!
It's now my favorite as modeled piano sound. The shorter load time also makes it to my go-to practice VST on my VPC-1. My sample pianos are of course on their own league but the responsiveness of Pianoteq is very attractive!


[Kawai VPC1/ES100 - VSTs: Garritan CFX, VILabs Italian Grand, Ravenscroft 275 | Pianoteq 6 Standard: Steingraeber E-272, Bluethner - Ableton Live 9 Lite, Tascam US2x2, Mackie BIG KNOB, SMSL HP-AMP, Schiit Fulla 2 - Sennheiser HD700 / Sony MDRV6 - Presonus E5+T10, iloud micro monitors]
Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraber E-272 [Re: Tom Fort] #2760792
08/24/18 06:56 PM
08/24/18 06:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 159
Moscow, Russia
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Max_Forte Offline
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Moscow, Russia
The ease of how modelled piano VSTi developers improve sound IMO showing how they effectively "milking" users. I exactly remember my emotions the day I bought Arturia - Piano V2. On those days it was a huge step ahead over Pianoteq in terms of sound. I was impressed by its sound. And it was widely discussed here and on VI-control, generally in a key: " Finally Pianoteq got a really strong competitor as in terms of possibilities and financial opportunities Arturia is a Giant company compared to Modart. And now as a developer with a big potential and experience in software and hardware design, Arturia will achieve success in piano modelling very fast. Pianoteq have to try hard to improve the sound".

And Pianoteq did! Only a few weeks later I updated Pianoteq and was shocked: They improved sound very much and became better than Piano V2. If you will install Piano V demo today you will not believe your ears how Pianoteq improved the sound still being unnatural. Please note, not excellent and natural, just better. These are just marketing games. With every new version, they have to be just a little bit better to have normal sales and growing business. The perfect product will destroy their business.

There is another strong player in the modelling field: "Applied Acoustics Systems" (AAS). With their amazing "Lounge Lizard EP-4" E-Pianos they already blew away Arturia and Pianoteq. They are not even close. AAS in e-pianos is competing with sample libraries and personally, I like it more than most sampled Rhodes and Wurlies. If they will decide to take part in the "piano race" we will get the really great modelled pianos from all these companies in a very short time.

Not talking about UVI now. They are too lazy to take part in such games. Their "Falcon" is IMO The Best synthesizer in the world. Nothing can sound like a real analog hardware like a Falcon does. But they even not release enough expansions for it, the easiest way all synth developers can earn the money. But if they would release modelled piano they definitely would shake the market.

Just dreaming...


Casio PX-350
Komplete 10 Ult.: UVI - Falcon; Pianoteq - 6 Std; Galaxy - Vintage D, Vienna Grand; PV - Concert Grand LE, Production Grand - 2 LE, Estate Grand; Lounge Lizard EP-4; Neo-Soul Keys; AS - C7 Grand; Addictive Keys- All
Zoom UAC-2; Matrix M-Stage Classic 2 - Beyers DT-880 PRO; JBL - LSR305
Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraber E-272 [Re: Tom Fort] #2760795
08/24/18 07:17 PM
08/24/18 07:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,304
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Pete14 Offline
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,304
Slightly off topic: I’ve noticed that the Studiologic SL88 Grand is not available at any of the major online retailers (Sweet, Kraft, Guitar C., Musician’s, American M. etc.) Are we to make something of this, or is it simply a coincidence?

Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraber E-272 [Re: Pete14] #2760796
08/24/18 07:20 PM
08/24/18 07:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,756
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Gombessa Offline
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Originally Posted by Pete14
Slightly off topic: I’ve noticed that the Studiologic SL88 Grand is not available at any of the major online retailers (Sweet, Kraft, Guitar C., Musician’s, American M. etc.) Are we to make something of this, or is it simply a coincidence?


Probably a regional distribution issue more than anything else. I hear about Studiologic controllers frequently in the EU but rarely in the US market. Maybe they just don't have their NA distribution channel set up.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Pianoteq introduced a Steingraber E-272 [Re: Tom Fort] #2760798
08/24/18 07:29 PM
08/24/18 07:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,304
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Pete14 Offline
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That makes sense, so I won’t speculate about ‘new models on the way’. smile

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