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KAWAI ES110-ES8-MP7SE keys issues: Solved! LDT the culprit! #2744144
06/13/18 01:02 PM
06/13/18 01:02 PM
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Vadesriux Offline OP
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After ordering a KAWAI ES8 ("clack" sound on one key) - and returning it,
After ordering a MP7SE (same clack sound on two keys) - and returning it,
After ordering a Kawai ES110 - returned again...

I found out what these consecutive weird mechanism noises were all about. In 3 words: LDT aka "Long Distance Transportation" :o)

That's right. I already did find very strange that ALL of the Kawais, from cheap to more expensive, showed these key related issues. But today I had the conformation. LDT.

I received another ES110 today and happily was trying all the keys back and forth certain that THIS would be the one with no key issues at all. WRONG! One black key rebounds strangely and makes a "clack" noise when pressed...

All these pianos came from Germany and I live in Portugal. So sort of a 5000km travel distance by truck from the shop to my house. Lots of truck changes-warehouse ins and outs- and more truck travelling. Normally 6 to 8 days to reach me.

Like so, I contacted the shop who kindly confirmed that Kawais many times arrived at consumers with key problems. They advised me to contact Kawai representative in Portugal, which I did, and ask them how much would it cost to repair, including pick-up and delivery back to my house.

The technician at Kawai´s representative shop told me that it should be no difficult thing to fix (for them), and it usually happens due to movements during transportation leading to one key or another becoming dislodged from its place. EUREKA! LDT in action.

So, I am sending the ES back to Kawai´s Portuguese representative for fixing the key, and the shop who sold it will pay for those costs.

Ordering a new piano would be to no avail, since 4 TIMES all have arrived with some kind of keybed issue.

SOLUTION: Do Not send the pianos back to the shop, if it is too far away from you, but instead fix it in your country.

Last edited by Vadesriux; 06/13/18 01:03 PM.

Eduardo
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Re: KAWAI ES110-ES8-MP7SE keys issues: Solved! LDT the culprit! [Re: Vadesriux] #2744149
06/13/18 01:48 PM
06/13/18 01:48 PM
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Ouch! I was considering possibly upgrading my Casio Privia PX310 to a Kawai ES8. But if they (ES8) are that fragile and delicate to transport, I'm having second thoughts. One of the sole purposes of a digital stage piano is to transport easily. If the keys are that fragile, it is a little discouraging. I would think Kawai could do better.

Just a few thoughts...

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: KAWAI ES110-ES8-MP7SE keys issues: Solved! LDT the culprit! [Re: Vadesriux] #2744161
06/13/18 03:08 PM
06/13/18 03:08 PM
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I will have to be more clear about this Rick. It is not a Kawais problem.
In the meantime of trying those Kawais at home, I tried also a Yamaha CP4, top of the line of Yamahas digital stage pianos. You should have seen the original box when it arrived, transported by UPS... 2 large holes on the corners, one of which you could see the inside protective foam... A nightmare? Yes. The result? The CP4 inner power supply buzzing and the piano having to be sent back to the shop.
UPS had to pay the shop for that one...
So it is not a Kawai issue as I once admit thought it could be. It is the less of care some transporters have when delivering these costly instruments.

The ES110 / ES8 / MP7SE all have the most beautiful and fidedign piano samples you can find nowadays on digital pianos. You really find yourself in joy playing them. Believe me. Better than that. Try them!

Last edited by Vadesriux; 06/13/18 03:10 PM.

Eduardo
Re: KAWAI ES110-ES8-MP7SE keys issues: Solved! LDT the culprit! [Re: Vadesriux] #2744163
06/13/18 03:15 PM
06/13/18 03:15 PM
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Vadesriux: Is it not possible to buy such a piano locally, in Portugal?

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Re: KAWAI ES110-ES8-MP7SE keys issues: Solved! LDT the culprit! [Re: Vadesriux] #2744165
06/13/18 03:20 PM
06/13/18 03:20 PM
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I have moved my ES7 into its wheeled bag several times, down the streets of a mountain village with stone pavement full of gaps...and not a single key went out of place.


Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.Kawai K-200
Re: KAWAI ES110-ES8-MP7SE keys issues: Solved! LDT the culprit! [Re: MacMacMac] #2744168
06/13/18 03:24 PM
06/13/18 03:24 PM
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Yes it is possible to buy locally, but the pianos are shipped from Germany... Even to the distributor.
So... No chance to escape trucks and logistic warehouses along the way... :o)

Last edited by Vadesriux; 06/13/18 03:26 PM.

Eduardo
Re: KAWAI ES110-ES8-MP7SE keys issues: Solved! LDT the culprit! [Re: Vadesriux] #2744170
06/13/18 03:26 PM
06/13/18 03:26 PM
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What I meant was: Can you buy a piano from the stock of the local retailer. If the piano has been set up, any defects will be apparent to the dealer before it goes on display ... and likely corrected before you lay hands on it. Or, if not corrected, you'll know it before you buy it.

Re: KAWAI ES110-ES8-MP7SE keys issues: Solved! LDT the culprit! [Re: Vadesriux] #2744171
06/13/18 03:29 PM
06/13/18 03:29 PM
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I see what you mean MacMac. In Portugal music stores only display Yamahas and Rolands, and never the top models. So as you see we have to order, online or in store.
But yes, if you order in store you can open the box and find straight away if there is a problem or not. That is true yes.

I'm very happy with my ES110. Only need to have that single key fixed.

Last edited by Vadesriux; 06/13/18 03:30 PM.

Eduardo
Re: KAWAI ES110-ES8-MP7SE keys issues: Solved! LDT the culprit! [Re: Vadesriux] #2744203
06/13/18 05:52 PM
06/13/18 05:52 PM
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I gig with an ES8 several times a month. It's fine when I transport it, because I'm not flinging it around the back of a truck. It's a rugged piece of kit. Get a decent case for it (the European Kawai gig bag is excellent). The one time I damaged it was when I stupidly let it fall from standing on one end to the floor (which I blame on a complicated load setup in a tiny space, and me being careless). That could have damaged any stage piano.


Rodney Sauer
Kawai KG-2E • Kawai ES8
Re: KAWAI ES110-ES8-MP7SE keys issues: Solved! LDT the culprit! [Re: Vadesriux] #2744239
06/13/18 08:48 PM
06/13/18 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Vadesriux

I found out what these consecutive weird mechanism noises were all about. In 3 words: LDT aka "Long Distance Transportation" :o)
...
All these pianos came from Germany and I live in Portugal. So sort of a 5000km travel distance by truck from the shop to my house
...

Often the culprit for such damage is not the transport itself but the process of loading and unloading the items. But if your DP really managed to travel 5000 Km to get from Germany to Portugal, then other factors may have indeed contributed to its problems since the travel distance should be around half of that ;-)

Re: KAWAI ES110-ES8-MP7SE keys issues: Solved! LDT the culprit! [Re: Vadesriux] #2744241
06/13/18 08:51 PM
06/13/18 08:51 PM
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It's been a long time since I studied geography in school. A very long time.

But I'm pretty sure it's not 5000 km from Germany to Portugal. More like half of that. smile

Re: KAWAI ES110-ES8-MP7SE keys issues: Solved! LDT the culprit! [Re: Vadesriux] #2744295
06/14/18 02:57 AM
06/14/18 02:57 AM
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5000km if you come and go :o)


Eduardo
Re: KAWAI ES110-ES8-MP7SE keys issues: Solved! LDT the culprit! [Re: arc7urus] #2744312
06/14/18 05:17 AM
06/14/18 05:17 AM
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There are two ways to transport a piano. One good, and one bad.
Originally Posted by arc7urus
[quote=Vadesriux]Often the culprit for such damage is not the transport itself but the process of loading and unloading the items.
And I think you're right Vad. It's not the bumps that the truck traverses. It's all in the handling.

You and I would take great care when moving a piano, whether from room to room or from one location to another.

But the transport companies don't employ you or me. They employ gorillas. Like the baggage handler in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C-e96m4730

Re: KAWAI ES110-ES8-MP7SE keys issues: Solved! LDT the culprit! [Re: Vadesriux] #2744500
06/14/18 07:09 PM
06/14/18 07:09 PM
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Before they cancelled the product, I used to have Pepsi premix delivered to my theatre. (Now I have bottles.)

Premix comes in 5 gallon aluminum tanks like this:

[Linked Image]

When full the tanks weigh something around 60 pounds.

I can carry one at a time, just far enough to move it from the storage closet to the Pepsi machine or something.

The Pepsi delivery drivers (all of whom are a lot bigger and tougher than me) manage to carry two at a time, one in each hand.

Several years ago the driver came one day with a helper. The biggest man I've ever seen, anywhere. He literally looked like a gorilla wearing a Pepsi delivery uniform. The driver walked in behind him and said, "Meet my new helper." This man carried FOUR tanks, two in each hand. I said, "Hello" and he said "Hmmmmmm". With a grin, the driver said, "Joe doesn't talk much."

I guess all he ever said was "Hmmmm".

He didn't seem to be on this route for long, but I've never seen the deliveries go faster than when Joe was the helper.

Point being, there can be some really "interesting" people working warehouse and delivery jobs who can end up handling your new piano. Someone like Joe could definitely move it to where it needs to be, but I don't think it would be particularly gentle.

Great guy to "tote dat load", though.


If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
We got both kinds of music: Country and Western!
Casio Celviano AP-650
Re: KAWAI ES110-ES8-MP7SE keys issues: Solved! LDT the culprit! [Re: Vadesriux] #2744520
06/14/18 08:06 PM
06/14/18 08:06 PM
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Having just gone through the 88 key controller purchase nightmare here is my take on it.
i live in NY and close to NYC so there are dozens of places where I can listen and try before I buy so yes I am spoiled.

Yet, when you think about it analytically, these things are shipped from China, Japan, Korea, goodness knows where and somehow end up in the USA. So in effect, they have had the crap beat out of them in shipping already. But each successive shipping starts to push the envelope in terms of what can survive the idiots handling heavy weight packages.

So my reasoning for buying locally was purely targeted toward what if something is wrong... THAT IMHO is where the nightmare starts.
So I recently got my RD-2000 from a local Guitar Center. I told he salesperson I will leave if it's a re-pack or returned unit. They got it and the unit I got was factory sealed.

I realize I am spoiled having so many brick and mortar stores near me but I would go 150 miles to pick up a unit in person.
I've seen UPS in action and they suck.
In fact just last week I had a Barbie Mustang car delivered to my house, a present for my granddaughter and the UPS guy literally left it on the lawn instead of putting it on my porch.

So my advice is while these things are packed real well, every point of contact is an option for failure and when something is broke the real fun begins... Travel if necessary to pick up a heavy unit.

Re: KAWAI ES110-ES8-MP7SE keys issues: Solved! LDT the culprit! [Re: JazzBow] #2744534
06/14/18 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by JazzBow
So my reasoning for buying locally was purely targeted toward what if something is wrong... THAT IMHO is where the nightmare starts...I realize I am spoiled having so many brick and mortar stores near me but I would go 150 miles to pick up a unit in person.


I can understand your sentiment, but it really depends on the manufacturer and the online dealer you're using. I had to send a new MP11SE back due to a manufacturing defect and my dealer arranged it all for me. UPS came right to my house and did a swap with a new one. I didn't have to drive 150 miles and had no nightmares.

Kawai was the manufacturer and Tim Praskins was the dealer. That is an all-star combination right there.

God Bless,
David


Last edited by David B; 06/14/18 09:47 PM.

Kawai MP-11SE
Macbook Air/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
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Re: KAWAI ES110-ES8-MP7SE keys issues: Solved! LDT the culprit! [Re: Vadesriux] #2744654
06/15/18 10:20 AM
06/15/18 10:20 AM
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Got my new ES110 today. The 5th Kawai digital piano I have received.......... (seriously).

This time I buyed in my own country: Portugal. It was shipped yesterday from the store - where they absolutely guaranteed to have opened the box and tried the piano before shipping it to me - and that it had passed their test and everything was working just fine. It is an absolute new piano (no demo or B-Stock). Like so, the ES110 travelled 350km during the night with Portugal National carrier: CTT. It even came with two red FRAGILE stickers on top.

Well... I didnt faint when I opened it and started checking the keys because I am becoming imune to key problems and issues. 3 black keys + 1 white key didnt produce any sound at all and their movement was jerky comparing to the other normal keys.............................

This time I said to myself. Well Eduardo, take it easy and try to play several times those keys, before sendind (another) new unit back. Guess what. After several attempts and key movements (lowering the front white keys while playing the troubled black key behind), all of them started to move freely again and producing sound again!
Can you believe it?

I´m just not able to find any kind of explanation anymore.
Glad to have a full playable keybed....................................................finally. Ufffff..................

What a nightmare....

Last edited by Vadesriux; 06/15/18 10:22 AM.

Eduardo
Re: KAWAI ES110-ES8-MP7SE keys issues: Solved! LDT the culprit! [Re: Vadesriux] #2744664
06/15/18 11:15 AM
06/15/18 11:15 AM
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Eduardo, I’m sure it will be worth all the end. I’m so glad you now have a nice DP. Enjoy it. You’ve earned it!

Re: KAWAI ES110-ES8-MP7SE keys issues: Solved! LDT the culprit! [Re: Vadesriux] #2744670
06/15/18 11:46 AM
06/15/18 11:46 AM
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Vad: If it weren't for bad luck you'd have no luck at all. frown

Re: KAWAI ES110-ES8-MP7SE keys issues: Solved! LDT the culprit! [Re: Vadesriux] #2744714
06/15/18 03:48 PM
06/15/18 03:48 PM
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Eduardo,
what do you think is preventing the nightmare from returning to you?

bare luck,
you trying hard,
or a sturdy construction of the key action mechanism?

Re: KAWAI ES110-ES8-MP7SE keys issues: Solved! LDT the culprit! [Re: Vadesriux] #2744721
06/15/18 04:11 PM
06/15/18 04:11 PM
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Vadesriux Offline OP
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Hi Lophi.
Best thing you can do, if you have the chance (which I had not) is to go to a shop, buy directly there and before leaving ask to open the box and try all the keys for yourself before leaving. There is no better (safer) way.

One thing I can tell you. The quality of the Kawai piano sample is so good and true to a real piano playing and sounding, that is worth it. By far. I have tried all the big brands digital pianos and Kawai is unbeatable in reproducing the sound and dynamics of a true acoustic piano playing and sounding.
The next is with no doubt Yamaha, if you like the CFX / CFSIII sound and expressiveness.

I have Abel Mendoza "Worship Essentials" for Mainstage 3, and when you turn off the piano sound (Logic Pro Steinway piano sample) and let the ES110 piano sound play alongside the pads and strings, you simply cannot believe in your ears. It is THAT good.

Last edited by Vadesriux; 06/15/18 04:17 PM.

Eduardo
Re: KAWAI ES110-ES8-MP7SE keys issues: Solved! LDT the culprit! [Re: Vadesriux] #2744803
06/16/18 06:23 AM
06/16/18 06:23 AM
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Hi Eduardo,
Did you give Pianoteq a try?

Re: KAWAI ES110-ES8-MP7SE keys issues: Solved! LDT the culprit! [Re: lophiomys] #2744822
06/16/18 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by lophiomys
Hi Eduardo,
Did you give Pianoteq a try?

Yes I did. If you like its modelled sounds that's fine. To me, nothing comes closer to a real piano sound unless it is directly sampled from a real piano.

I am sure lots of other guys here will swear by CFX plugin or Alicia Keys, or The Grandeur. Dont get me wrong. These are all great software emulations of pianos. But again, so is the Roland emulations and they dont come close to real samples.

But ones ear is ones ear! :o)


Eduardo
Re: KAWAI ES110-ES8-MP7SE keys issues: Solved! LDT the culprit! [Re: Vadesriux] #2744824
06/16/18 08:16 AM
06/16/18 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Vadesriux
I am sure lots of other guys here will swear by CFX plugin or Alicia Keys, or The Grandeur. Dont get me wrong. These are all great software emulations of pianos.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but all three VSTs you mentioned here are sampled pianos, not modelled like Pianoteq.

Re: KAWAI ES110-ES8-MP7SE keys issues: Solved! LDT the culprit! [Re: JoBert] #2744826
06/16/18 08:31 AM
06/16/18 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by JoBert
Originally Posted by Vadesriux
I am sure lots of other guys here will swear by CFX plugin or Alicia Keys, or The Grandeur. Dont get me wrong. These are all great software emulations of pianos.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but all three VSTs you mentioned here are sampled pianos, not modelled like Pianoteq.

If so I apologise.

Nevertheless I have tried them all and woudn't trade the Kawai piano sound for any of those.

But I understand our ears and perceiveness of sound is quite different from one to another, of course.


Eduardo
Re: KAWAI ES110-ES8-MP7SE keys issues: Solved! LDT the culprit! [Re: Vadesriux] #2744859
06/16/18 10:39 AM
06/16/18 10:39 AM
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lophiomys Offline
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Originally Posted by Vadesriux

...
Nevertheless I have tried them all and woudn't trade the Kawai piano sound for any of those.
...

Lucky you. smile

Last edited by lophiomys; 06/16/18 10:41 AM. Reason: formatting error
Re: KAWAI ES110-ES8-MP7SE keys issues: Solved! LDT the culprit! [Re: Vadesriux] #2744867
06/16/18 11:53 AM
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Indeed.
Personally, I wasn't too impressed with the ES110 in the shop.


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Re: KAWAI ES110-ES8-MP7SE keys issues: Solved! LDT the culprit! [Re: Vadesriux] #2744891
06/16/18 01:32 PM
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Why don't you make a weeked trip by car to Lisbon or Madrid and try out a bunch of digital pianos. Then bring a functioning one back home in your own car?

Call before leaving, but Madrid has over 6 million people so there must be a few Kawai dealers with decent stock.

This might not be so easy if (when) the Euro disappears and borders are re-established across Europe.

Re: KAWAI ES110-ES8-MP7SE keys issues: Solved! LDT the culprit! [Re: Vadesriux] #2746093
06/21/18 01:31 PM
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Posts: 3
Seattle, WA. USA
I too am looking at the Kawai ES110 vs. the Roland FP 30, and I keep reading about keyboard issues with the Kawai only...whether it is normal key rebound noise (as I asked about on this forum), but more importantly friction or rubbing or nonfunctional keys or whatever. So, would I be correct in assuming that, despite the general feeling that the Kawai ES110 in the under $1000 DP price range may have the best sound and action, that the keyboard mechanism is either the most prone to manufacturing defects and/or the most prone to damage during shipping?

And if so, that I would be much better off, should I decide to go with the Kawai, to pay the extra money to buy locally at a slightly higher price and pay 10% sales tax in WA and cart it down to my vacation home (as opposed to buying online and having it shipped untried to the Oregon house and save sales tax) so that I can make sure in the store that the unit is unpacked, plugged in, and every key tried and then packed back up again and taken with me, etc.? So that I can avoid the incredible inconvenience of what sounds like potentially as many as several returns via UPS down in Oregon?

And does this in any way portend future problems with a keyboard that may be more prone to issues over time, or is it just prone to manufacturing issues so that, once you find a good one free of defects, you will be ok?

This has just introduced a new level of pain into the process.


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