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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2803880
3 hours ago
3 hours ago
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,811
Germany
JoBert Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
JoBert  Offline OP
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Tyrone, I can't answer your specific questions, but:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Also, when the master volume setting is set to 100%/max, I'm banging on some chords at ff, and I'm seated normally at the piano, what is the dB level of this noise? Is it a pin dropping 10 dB? a leaf rustling 20 dB? A faint whispering 30 dB?

If you do that, i.e. play full force at master volume 100%, it is possible you won't hear anything specific, because likely you would be covering your ears with your hands (and the rest of the store will turn to see who's the maniac). That baby is loud at 100%!
(Ok, that might be a bit dramatized, but you catch my drift.)

Personally, I would say that if you can't hear anything untoward during normal play (including normal ff), then you are good to go. Why go looking for a problem that only exists (if it does) in lab conditions, not during normal play?
(I'm not saying that the affected owners have the problem only under lab conditions, I'm speaking about testing a unit in the shop. If that unit is fine under normal conditions, why look for abnormalities under abnormal conditions?).

And to give at least a general answer to your question: Based on the info that mellow sounds seem to be less affected, I would guess that the more brilliant sounds are more affected. So, try the "Full", "Rich", "Brilliant" (doh!), "Pop" and "Boogie" rendering characters. Those are the most brilliant ones. If those sound fine, then you are good. (I personally find Pop and Boogie to be very ugly sounding, I don't like them at all, so I wouldn't even mind if I had artifacts in those).

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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2803886
2 hours ago
2 hours ago
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,825
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content


Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,825
Originally Posted by JoBert
Tyrone, I can't answer your specific questions, but:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Also, when the master volume setting is set to 100%/max, I'm banging on some chords at ff, and I'm seated normally at the piano, what is the dB level of this noise? Is it a pin dropping 10 dB? a leaf rustling 20 dB? A faint whispering 30 dB?

If you do that, i.e. play full force at master volume 100%, it is possible you won't hear anything specific, because likely you would be covering your ears with your hands (and the rest of the store will turn to see who's the maniac). That baby is loud at 100%!
(Ok, that might be a bit dramatized, but you catch my drift.)

You probably think there are a lot of people in piano stores! Maybe where you live, but where I leave, piano stores are like Dodo birds and the pianos Dodo eggs! I can't say I saw more than 3-4 people in any of the stores I was in. And to sell a $10K piano, they darn better let me play it as loud as I want. smile Anyways, I'd personally prefer playing a bit softer, which is why I initially proposed 50% volume, but then Tyr said above the issue might not occur at that volume level.

Originally Posted by JoBert
Personally, I would say that if you can't hear anything untoward during normal play (including normal ff), then you are good to go. Why go looking for a problem that only exists (if it does) in lab conditions, not during normal play?

(I'm not saying that the affected owners have the problem only under lab conditions, I'm speaking about testing a unit in the shop. If that unit is fine under normal conditions, why look for abnormalities under abnormal conditions?).

OK. To review the premise of my testing:
  • At least some owners do not appear to have defective units emitting noises and in fact it was suggested that I might luck out and just not end up with a defective unit
  • To increase the probability of not ending up with a defective unit, I am proposing going into some different stores, testing for the defect on the floor model, and then if no defect is found, just buying the floor model. If a defect is found, I go to the next store on the list and repeat.
  • To make my testing as effective as possible and consume as little time as possible, I would not like to "try everything." Instead, I would like to head immediately into the area of of maximum likelihood of the defect occurring.
  • I would prefer to identify the defect in the store rather than in my home. The latter entirely defeats the purpose of buying a floor model.
  • Even if a unit has a defect in an area which is not commonly used, I would like to find and move on if I am trying to find a unit without the defect

Now, if actually all units have the defect, then the testing above is pointless and buying a floor model instead of a model still in a box is is not preferred. This entire approach is predicated on the premise that some, but not all, units are defective.

Originally Posted by JoBert
And to give at least a general answer to your question: Based on the info that mellow sounds seem to be less affected, I would guess that the more brilliant sounds are more affected. So, try the "Full", "Rich", "Brilliant" (doh!), "Pop" and "Boogie" rendering characters. Those are the most brilliant ones. If those sound fine, then you are good. (I personally find Pop and Boogie to be very ugly sounding, I don't like them at all, so I wouldn't even mind if I had artifacts in those).

OK. This is a second vote for "Pop" as land where the defect lives.


across the stone, deathless piano performances
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2803894
2 hours ago
2 hours ago
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 24
France
J
jgbs Offline
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France
Tyrone, I have no word to qualify exactly the noise even in french. Imagine a very thin needle placed on the strings of an accoustic piano and you will understand what is the parasite.
If you want detect it just use the pianist mode either in classic or rich mode as said JoBert and play at normal level.
The noise is obvious and if you don't ear it with this setting, that means that the instrument is not affected.

Last edited by jgbs; 2 hours ago.
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2803896
2 hours ago
2 hours ago
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 550
USA
TomLC Offline
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TomLC  Offline
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Tyrone - be sure to play some acoustic grands in the store also. Different brands. See if the Novus sounds like they do in the same environment. When I once bought an upright, it sounded great in the store. But at home it sounded harse and overly loud. My point being the NV may not sound the same in your room. Especially in the small space you shared on another thread. Actually, isn’t the NV too wide for your space? Or am I confusing you with someone else?


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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: jgbs] #2803899
2 hours ago
2 hours ago
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 550
USA
TomLC Offline
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Originally Posted by jgbs
Tyrone, I have no word to qualify exactly the noise even in french. Imagine a very thin needle placed on the strings of an accoustic piano and you will understand what is the parasite.


That sounds like undamped string resonance. Which is why I don’t usually use Pianist mode with headphones.


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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2803912
2 hours ago
2 hours ago
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,811
Germany
JoBert Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
JoBert  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2015
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Germany
Tyrone, I just remembered:

Way back in this thread, opus64 shared a recording of the buzzing problem:

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...wai-novus-nv10-hands-on.html#Post2749738

Check the first recording of the G#3 (for this recording, listen with good headphones and high volume). Sometimes the note is fine, sometimes it's overlayed with a buzz (as was described: like a pin or bit of tin foil was placed on the piano strings).
That's what you should look out for if you should get around to testing an NV10 in a shop. (Of course the real piano test should be via speakers, not headphones).

Personally, I think "buzzing" instead of "hiss" is a better name for this problem, as the latter is often confused with a constantly ongoing hiss, like a white noise speaker hiss or so, see the current NU1X thread. This however is not constant, as you can hear. It isn't even always present on the same key (maybe only at certain velocities? Who knows...).

EDIT:
Originally Posted by TomLC
Originally Posted by jgbs
Tyrone, I have no word to qualify exactly the noise even in french. Imagine a very thin needle placed on the strings of an accoustic piano and you will understand what is the parasite.


That sounds like undamped string resonance. Which is why I don’t usually use Pianist mode with headphones.

I think the buzz I hear in opus64's recording sounds different than the undamped string resonances. The latter are simply high frequency sounds, but without the buzzing quality. Also as you said, they are more prominent with headphones, while this buzz happens on speakers.

Last edited by JoBert; 2 hours ago.
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: TomLC] #2803916
2 hours ago
2 hours ago
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,825
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content


Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,825
Originally Posted by TomLC
Tyrone - be sure to play some acoustic grands in the store also. Different brands. See if the Novus sounds like they do in the same environment. When I once bought an upright, it sounded great in the store. But at home it sounded harse and overly loud. My point being the NV may not sound the same in your room. Especially in the small space you shared on another thread. Actually, isn’t the NV too wide for your space? Or am I confusing you with someone else?

No you aren't confusing me with someone else! You remember quite correctly. As mentioned, if I can't fit it into my piano nook, then I will hire an interior designer to reconfigure my entire space. So that's the stage I'm in. Buy an NV10 and the time of an interior designer as a package deal wink Getting an interior designer is not a big deal since I live in a big city. What was a big deal was getting accustomed to the idea of a reconfiguration (diagnosed with OCD and on drugs for it, so yes, moving my stuff around is a big deal for me), but it's been two months since I first started talking about the possibility of getting a piano that doesn't fit that nook, and I seem to have adjusted to the idea. Of course I could still end up collapsing when the designer starts moving stuff around, but perhaps I should go on a trip when that happens and just not see it until it's done. LOL.


across the stone, deathless piano performances
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2803930
1 hour ago
1 hour ago
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,316
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Gombessa Offline
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Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,316
Yes, when you go in to test it, beware. The NV10 speaker system is LOUD at full volume, some people say at the bench it's louder than a GL10, which I can believe. Even moreso with an uncontrolled audio source (like a line-in or Bluetooth audio connection).

While I agree with JoBert that you should simply audition the piano as you would normally do any other, I can definitely understand that you want to seek out any specific behavior you're concerned about. I played the NV10 for a couple of hours at my dealer before buying the unit (floor model, but it was when they were just released so it was maybe 12 hours on the floor when I got to it). I brought my headphones, laptop with VST, cables, etc....and there's a lot I just couldn't suss out until I had the thing in my home for a few days/weeks with quiet playtime.

By all means listen for the buzz. But if you don't hear it, it doesn't mean you won't later in a different environment, and I think you should focus rather on whether you enjoyed the full experience of the audition. Just my $0.02.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2803961
11 minutes ago
11 minutes ago
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 39
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navindra Online content
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Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 39
This guy says the NV10 is not loud enough and plays at max volume. What's happening?

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