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Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: CadenzaVvi] #2751179
07/13/18 08:11 AM
07/13/18 08:11 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 85
Texas
Dr. Rogers Offline
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Posts: 85
Texas
Originally Posted by Jouishy
What is your ratio children / adults in your students? I always felt like adults are a minority, but I'm not sure if it is true. Do you like this ratio or would like more children or adults? Do you prefer to teach children or adults? Why?

Thanks. smile


After seeing your question, I did the math and found that my studio is 40% adults, 60% children. I personally like this ratio pretty well; even 50/50 would be great for me. The ratio has varied in the past. When I first started teaching, my students were all adults. (That was before I went to college - they were all older than I!) I started teaching again while I was in grad school; my first student was a child and all the rest were adults. After Piling it Higher and Deeper and moving to Texas, I started teaching more seriously. My studio was initially all adults, and children started filtering in over time.

I enjoy teaching both adults and children. Broadly speaking, teaching adults vs. children pose different challenges and result in different rewards.

Teaching children can be better from a financial perspective, as they tend to be more reliable, longer-term students. Teaching them theory can be a bit of a challenge, especially since they are still learning to think abstractly and analytically. Nerves/anxiety during lessons can be a real problem. Sometimes I have to play the buffoon to get them to relax - I don't mind sacrificing my dignity on occasion if it helps them do better at piano. Many of my preteen/teen students are fans of Japanese animation, so I have a shared interest with them. (I admit it, I'm a bit of an otaku.)

I've had some very flaky adult students in the past. But a committed, intelligent, highly educated adult student with plenty of time to practice - there's nothing like it. All but one of my current adult students are engineers, and the only non-engineer is a technician. They tend to grasp the technical aspects very quickly, and sometimes we geek out with the music theory! They also have more life experiences and a generally higher level of emotional maturity, so they tend to pick up the artistic aspects more quickly than children as well.

I hope this answers your question.

Disclaimer: All of the above represents my personal experience only, and I do not wish to imply any generalizations. As always, YMMV.


Austin Rogers, PhD
Music Teacher in Austin, TX
Baldwin SD-10 Concert Grand "Kuroneko", Baldwin Upright, Yamaha P-255
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Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: 8 Octaves] #2751189
07/13/18 09:23 AM
07/13/18 09:23 AM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 267
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Midlife_Piano Online content
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In recent years I have worked with two piano teachers:

Teacher #1: when I started taking lessons from him, 1/4 - 1/3 of his students were adults; the rests were kids. Then he had to take a year off from teaching due to personal reasons. After he resumed teaching, ALL his students are now adults. He told me if he could choose freely, he would only teach adults now.

Teacher #2 aka my current teacher: when I switched to her because teacher #1 was away, she told me she has not taught adults for a long time. Most of her students are children from K to high school. She also has college students in a state university. Now she has 2 adult students including myself (and 13-15 young students). It's worth mentioning that many of her young students take lessons from K all the way to high school graduation before going away for college (not major in music). These students are all very advanced that they can play Beethoven Sonatas or Chopin Scherzo from memory. Also, not to reinforce the stereotype, almost all of these students are Asians.

Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: 8 Octaves] #2751291
07/13/18 06:27 PM
07/13/18 06:27 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 247
Quebec city, QC
CadenzaVvi Offline
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CadenzaVvi  Offline
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Very interesting answers. That gives me more insight about that part of being a teacher.

I've heard contradictory opinions about teacher adults. Some consider it to be a waste of time (because they consider adults to be too old to learn or because it will always be only a hobby), some consider it more difficult because the relation is not the same (I can understand that. For my part, it would be the contary : I never know how to interact with kids. As a learner, I'm the kind that needs to understand why you ask me to do something one way instead of another. Otherwise, I might not put the efforts to do it the way your telling me to. It comes with the advantage that if I understand the reasons, I'll be dedicated to do it!). I haven't heard much people saying they prefer adults, which always seemed strange to me.
And I feel like the fact that adults are slower learners is false. Less cereral plasticity seemed to be countered with faster understanding of the concepts and more efficient practice. I feel like I would have never progressed as fast as I do now when I was a kid.

I get the financial aspect. I guess it can be delt with semester-based paiement. But there is no need for that if you can have enough children to teach too and it is what you prefer. smile
There is no wrong answer to my question. I understand people have different preferences. I'm curious on the reasons for it. And about how many adults there are out there wanting to learn music!


My piano journey from day 1
Started piano on February 2016.
Pieces I'm working on :
- Mozart's K545, 1st and 3rd mov
- Tina's theme from FF VI piano collections
Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: 8 Octaves] #2752167
07/17/18 02:57 PM
07/17/18 02:57 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 15
Central PA
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spartan928 Offline
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Central PA
I started lessons in March of this year. My teacher is very good and I'm glad he took me on. He has about 20 students, two are adults (myself and one other). I would say nearly half the children are Asian, most of which seem to be siblings. I live in a typical, small, rural, mid-western town with little to no music culture promoted to speak of other than the occasional classic rock cover band in the local dive bar. Therefore, I'm not surprised at the ratios. He teaches students most motivated to learn and pay $$ and not many adults in my region have much interest in something like piano lessons. Also, my teacher finds that his Asian families value music as a cultural benefit for their children, whereas the prevailing extracurricular activity among the locals here for children is travel sports.

Last edited by spartan928; 07/17/18 02:59 PM.
Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: 8 Octaves] #2752194
07/17/18 04:45 PM
07/17/18 04:45 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,483
Florida
dogperson Offline
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Jouishy
Personally, I have not seen teachers express the idea of not wanting to teach adults because they are too old to learn or because it will always be a hobby.

The very valid reasons I’ve seen is the lack of commitment of adults, that they quit when they realize it is a lot of work and the cancellation of lessons without paying. My teacher will take adult beginning students but finds many are ‘starters’ but not ‘stayers’. She loves her adult students that hang in there. In her words, ‘we make her think’


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
" I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho
Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: CadenzaVvi] #2752215
07/17/18 06:06 PM
07/17/18 06:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 10,808
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bennevis Online content
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Originally Posted by Jouishy

I've heard contradictory opinions about teacher adults. Some consider it to be a waste of time (because they consider adults to be too old to learn or because it will always be only a hobby), some consider it more difficult because the relation is not the same (I can understand that. For my part, it would be the contary : I never know how to interact with kids. As a learner, I'm the kind that needs to understand why you ask me to do something one way instead of another. Otherwise, I might not put the efforts to do it the way your telling me to. It comes with the advantage that if I understand the reasons, I'll be dedicated to do it!). I haven't heard much people saying they prefer adults, which always seemed strange to me.

There is no wrong answer to my question. I understand people have different preferences. I'm curious on the reasons for it. And about how many adults there are out there wanting to learn music!



I've had just one experience of being an adult learner on an unfamiliar musical instrument - which BTW was enjoyable for both me and my teacher, even if I say so myself wink - and afterwards, I gleaned some insights from my new cello teacher (for whom I was her first adult student).

She told me that other teachers had warned her about taking on any adult students - especially beginners - because of the following reasons, some (maybe all) of which have already been mentioned by others here:

1) Adults think they know more than they actually know - or even think they know better than their teacher. And contradict their teacher on musical matters (often referring to some 'expert' they saw on YT), raising their hackles.....
2) Adults talk too much - about inconsequential stuff (and therefore waste time) - or treat their lessons as therapy/counselling sessions, telling their teachers about personal problems which have nothing to do with music.
3) Adults keep asking unnecessary questions, instead of just doing what they are asked to do, and often the teacher has to think of convincing answers - or just say the first thing that comes into the teacher's mind, just so that she can get on with the lesson. (Like: "Why did Mozart write that passage this way, with that added flat?" Truthful answer: "Mozart is a genius and he likes it like that, that's the Mozartian style, so just play what he wrote, OK?" Instead, the teacher makes something up, like: "Well, he wants you to know that he knows how to use the blue note to heighten emotion, even before jazz was invented." grin)

She also told me that when I told her I already played the piano (when I rang to book that introductory lesson), her heart sank, because she thought I'd just use the opportunity to show off my knowledge about music during the lesson. She appeared visibly relieved when I said nothing about myself or my piano playing, but instead just took instructions and tried to follow them as best as I could, only asking a question if I wasn't sure I was doing what she wanted me to.

BTW, she was pretty frank with me because she knew I couldn't continue further lessons after that introductory one (because I was moving away with my job).


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: 8 Octaves] #2752246
07/17/18 07:56 PM
07/17/18 07:56 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 247
Quebec city, QC
CadenzaVvi Offline
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Joined: May 2018
Posts: 247
Quebec city, QC
When you started that third point, I was going to say "guilty". But those are not the kind of questions I do ask. grin (more like "why is it better to do this trill with 1-3?" In fact, THE thing my teacher hasn't convinced me yet that I should stop doing is moving my head when I play. I like to kind of dance with the music when I play. But since he insists, I try to do it less, even though at home, I can complety but this aside to have some more fun blush )

I feel like the second point can be highly avoid by the attitude of the teacher (but I can be wrong). I sometime would feel to rapidly vent about a hard day, but I just don't feel like my teacher is into chitchat. Our greetings are always short (but perfectly warm and polite) and I'm, in fact, very happy about this. We jump right to it (and never have enough time to cover half of what I wish to cover in a lesson!).
Probably easier said than done though.

As for the first point, I get how annoying that can be! grin

Thanks for sharing this, Bennevis. smile


My piano journey from day 1
Started piano on February 2016.
Pieces I'm working on :
- Mozart's K545, 1st and 3rd mov
- Tina's theme from FF VI piano collections
Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: bennevis] #2752252
07/17/18 08:17 PM
07/17/18 08:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 833
In the Ozarks of Missouri
NobleHouse Online content
500 Post Club Member
NobleHouse  Online Content
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 833
In the Ozarks of Missouri
Originally Posted by bennevis
Originally Posted by Jouishy

I've heard contradictory opinions about teacher adults. Some consider it to be a waste of time (because they consider adults to be too old to learn or because it will always be only a hobby), some consider it more difficult because the relation is not the same (I can understand that. For my part, it would be the contary : I never know how to interact with kids. As a learner, I'm the kind that needs to understand why you ask me to do something one way instead of another. Otherwise, I might not put the efforts to do it the way your telling me to. It comes with the advantage that if I understand the reasons, I'll be dedicated to do it!). I haven't heard much people saying they prefer adults, which always seemed strange to me.

There is no wrong answer to my question. I understand people have different preferences. I'm curious on the reasons for it. And about how many adults there are out there wanting to learn music!



I've had just one experience of being an adult learner on an unfamiliar musical instrument - which BTW was enjoyable for both me and my teacher, even if I say so myself wink - and afterwards, I gleaned some insights from my new cello teacher (for whom I was her first adult student).

She told me that other teachers had warned her about taking on any adult students - especially beginners - because of the following reasons, some (maybe all) of which have already been mentioned by others here:

1) Adults think they know more than they actually know - or even think they know better than their teacher. And contradict their teacher on musical matters (often referring to some 'expert' they saw on YT), raising their hackles.....
2) Adults talk too much - about inconsequential stuff (and therefore waste time) - or treat their lessons as therapy/counselling sessions, telling their teachers about personal problems which have nothing to do with music.
3) Adults keep asking unnecessary questions, instead of just doing what they are asked to do, and often the teacher has to think of convincing answers - or just say the first thing that comes into the teacher's mind, just so that she can get on with the lesson. (Like: "Why did Mozart write that passage this way, with that added flat?" Truthful answer: "Mozart is a genius and he likes it like that, that's the Mozartian style, so just play what he wrote, OK?" Instead, the teacher makes something up, like: "Well, he wants you to know that he knows how to use the blue note to heighten emotion, even before jazz was invented." grin)

She also told me that when I told her I already played the piano (when I rang to book that introductory lesson), her heart sank, because she thought I'd just use the opportunity to show off my knowledge about music during the lesson. She appeared visibly relieved when I said nothing about myself or my piano playing, but instead just took instructions and tried to follow them as best as I could, only asking a question if I wasn't sure I was doing what she wanted me to.

BTW, she was pretty frank with me because she knew I couldn't continue further lessons after that introductory one (because I was moving away with my job).








I can definitely see myself in #3! I seem to always want to know "Why".

Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: NobleHouse] #2752255
07/17/18 08:29 PM
07/17/18 08:29 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,483
Florida
dogperson Offline
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dogperson  Offline
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Posts: 3,483
Florida
Originally Posted by NobleHouse
Originally Posted by bennevis
Originally Posted by Jouishy

I've heard contradictory opinions about teacher adults. Some consider it to be a waste of time (because they consider adults to be too old to learn or because it will always be only a hobby), some consider it more difficult because the relation is not the same (I can understand that. For my part, it would be the contary : I never know how to interact with kids. As a learner, I'm the kind that needs to understand why you ask me to do something one way instead of another. Otherwise, I might not put the efforts to do it the way your telling me to. It comes with the advantage that if I understand the reasons, I'll be dedicated to do it!). I haven't heard much people saying they prefer adults, which always seemed strange to me.

There is no wrong answer to my question. I understand people have different preferences. I'm curious on the reasons for it. And about how many adults there are out there wanting to learn music!


.......


her first adult student).
3) Adults keep asking unnecessary questions, instead of just doing what they are asked to do, and often the teacher has to think of convincing answers - or just say the first thing that comes into the teacher's mind, just so that she can get on with the lesson. (Like: "Why did Mozart write that passage this way, with that added flat?" Truthful answer: "Mozart is a genius and he likes it like that, that's the Mozartian style, so just play what he wrote, OK?" Instead, the teacher makes something up, like: "Well, he wants you to know that he knows how to use the blue note to heighten emotion, even before jazz was invented." grin)

........





I can definitely see myself in #3! I seem to always want to know "Why".


My experience is that WHY is not inappropriate as a question but it is the intent of the question that is what is important. For example, if the question is WHY but is not relevant, or WHY as a way of showing resistance, it will not be well-received. But it the question is to find out in what other situations,, or what other periods of music the instruction would apply, WHY questions are appreciated. Questions should be based on a desire 'tell me more about this topic'.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
" I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho
Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: dogperson] #2752257
07/17/18 08:31 PM
07/17/18 08:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 833
In the Ozarks of Missouri
NobleHouse Online content
500 Post Club Member
NobleHouse  Online Content
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 833
In the Ozarks of Missouri
Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by NobleHouse
Originally Posted by bennevis
Originally Posted by Jouishy

I've heard contradictory opinions about teacher adults. Some consider it to be a waste of time (because they consider adults to be too old to learn or because it will always be only a hobby), some consider it more difficult because the relation is not the same (I can understand that. For my part, it would be the contary : I never know how to interact with kids. As a learner, I'm the kind that needs to understand why you ask me to do something one way instead of another. Otherwise, I might not put the efforts to do it the way your telling me to. It comes with the advantage that if I understand the reasons, I'll be dedicated to do it!). I haven't heard much people saying they prefer adults, which always seemed strange to me.

There is no wrong answer to my question. I understand people have different preferences. I'm curious on the reasons for it. And about how many adults there are out there wanting to learn music!


.......


her first adult student).
3) Adults keep asking unnecessary questions, instead of just doing what they are asked to do, and often the teacher has to think of convincing answers - or just say the first thing that comes into the teacher's mind, just so that she can get on with the lesson. (Like: "Why did Mozart write that passage this way, with that added flat?" Truthful answer: "Mozart is a genius and he likes it like that, that's the Mozartian style, so just play what he wrote, OK?" Instead, the teacher makes something up, like: "Well, he wants you to know that he knows how to use the blue note to heighten emotion, even before jazz was invented." grin)

........





I can definitely see myself in #3! I seem to always want to know "Why".


My experience is that WHY is not inappropriate as a question but it is the intent of the question that is what is important. For example, if the question is WHY but is not relevant, or WHY as a way of showing resistance, it will not be well-received. But it the question is to find out in what other situations,, or what other periods of music the instruction would apply, WHY questions are appreciated. Questions should be based on a desire 'tell me more about this topic'.


Exactly, and I agree with you!

Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: 8 Octaves] #2752288
07/17/18 11:45 PM
07/17/18 11:45 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,817
Finland
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outo Offline
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Finland
Well, I think my teacher still prefers answering my questions to trying to keep the hyperactive 6 year olds to sit on the bench instead of running around...the kids are not quite the same as they were 40 years ago...

Any modern teacher also knows that if the student does not ask the teacher he will ask the internet...which one is better?

It also seems to me that teaching also adults will be the best way to ensure one has enough employment in the future in many areas.

Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: outo] #2752299
07/18/18 02:44 AM
07/18/18 02:44 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,646
Orange County, CA
AZNpiano Offline
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Orange County, CA
Originally Posted by outo
It also seems to me that teaching also adults will be the best way to ensure one has enough employment in the future in many areas.

Not here. The adult students I teach barely make icing on the cake, and it's a THIN layer of icing.

The deep base of school-age students is why I can afford to keep teaching. No matter how much I bash their overstuffed schedules, these kids form the bulk of most piano studios that I know of.


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: AZNpiano] #2752320
07/18/18 06:18 AM
07/18/18 06:18 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,817
Finland
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outo Offline
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Finland
Originally Posted by AZNpiano
Originally Posted by outo
It also seems to me that teaching also adults will be the best way to ensure one has enough employment in the future in many areas.

Not here. The adult students I teach barely make icing on the cake, and it's a THIN layer of icing.

The deep base of school-age students is why I can afford to keep teaching. No matter how much I bash their overstuffed schedules, these kids form the bulk of most piano studios that I know of.


Good for you!

I would say there are less and less kids around here who dream about being a pianist...and more and more middle aged adults who had lessons in the past or wanted to play as a child and now have the time and money to take lessons.

Interestingly from the kid students that I see on my teacher's group lessons quite a few are from foreign background. Also when I was a kid it was common tthat most middle class kids at least tried to have instrument lessons. Now it's not that common...they have other things to do.

Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: dogperson] #2752351
07/18/18 10:11 AM
07/18/18 10:11 AM
Joined: Feb 2018
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mostlystrings Offline
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Originally Posted by dogperson
The very valid reasons I’ve seen is the lack of commitment of adults, that they quit when they realize it is a lot of work and the cancellation of lessons without paying.

I teach children exclusively now (and their parents by extension but not separate adults). Quitting and cancelling isn't exclusive to adults but I can more easily address that with children. For example, having a peer group motivates children despite the hard work. Requiring payment for the entire session of classes is similar to soccer, dance, etc. and parents are used to that. There's no financial incentive to cancel so they do it less often (such as when they deem that another activity or event is more important that week - which is fine as long as it's not at my expense). Also, if parents feel that music should be part of the child's core education/experience, they are more likely to keep going when the going gets tough.

It makes little difference to me if they dream of being a musician/want to be a pro or not (except that if they do, at some point they need to go to a teacher with better experience and connections on that front). If they participate and pay on time, I'll teach them to the level they are willing to work.

One of my colleagues much prefers (and has more) teenage and adult students. At this point, I wouldn't know how to (or even want to) to build that kind of studio since I've chosen a different target market. As for enough employment, it's not going to happen that all my students quit at the same time, short of some local disaster, disability, etc., and in that case there are bigger problems!

Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: 8 Octaves] #2752389
07/18/18 02:11 PM
07/18/18 02:11 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 247
Quebec city, QC
CadenzaVvi Offline
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Quebec city, QC
I don't see why adults (that are not parents) would not understand the principle of paying for an entire semester.

I've taken dance lessons and judo lessons. These are paid at once, in the first 3 weeks of the semester.
It is true that I don't do that with my piano lessons, but it is not because I would mind doing so. It simply that my teacher doesn't ask for it and it is easier to keep track of the payment this way, because HE sometimes cancels. :P So paying at the end of each lesson, I don't have to keep track of how much I've paid, when, for how many lessons, and how many lessons we did finally have. And the amount is easily paid cash (round number).


My piano journey from day 1
Started piano on February 2016.
Pieces I'm working on :
- Mozart's K545, 1st and 3rd mov
- Tina's theme from FF VI piano collections
Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: CadenzaVvi] #2752396
07/18/18 02:35 PM
07/18/18 02:35 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,483
Florida
dogperson Offline
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Florida
Originally Posted by Jouishy
I don't see why adults (that are not parents) would not understand the principle of paying for an entire semester.

I've taken dance lessons and judo lessons. These are paid at once, in the first 3 weeks of the semester.


Aren’t dance and judo lessons group lessons, and therefore cheaper? I take piano lessons one and a half hours per week, every week. To pay at the beginning of the semester for the entire four months would be significantly more than another house payment. Of course I would, if asked, but it would be a significant financial issue. I don’t think I would be alone in this .


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
" I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho
Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: 8 Octaves] #2752402
07/18/18 03:22 PM
07/18/18 03:22 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 247
Quebec city, QC
CadenzaVvi Offline
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CadenzaVvi  Offline
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Quebec city, QC
Hmm, you may be right about this.

I remember judo was a bit expensive at the fall semester because I had to pay for the mandatory affiliation to Judo Québec (the total was around 350$ if I remember correctly). Dance was around 240$.

When I've checked local music school, they handle paiements to made made in full or at the begining and mid of the semester.

I know that in some cities, music lessons are very expensive. In my city, average and standard price is 35$/hour. That's a chunk, but I would be able to pay 420-525$ at the begining a semester for a whole session. If you take lessons on a regular basis, it ends up being the same : either you save money the whole semester to pay the next in full at once or either you pay in smaller chunks, less having the option to save up.
But, yes, I understand that not everyone can do that easily. Still, if this is the rule, either you take it or not. I'd be curious to see how much it refreins people from taking lessons or seeking for a teacher with more flexible options.


My piano journey from day 1
Started piano on February 2016.
Pieces I'm working on :
- Mozart's K545, 1st and 3rd mov
- Tina's theme from FF VI piano collections
Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: CadenzaVvi] #2752448
07/18/18 06:54 PM
07/18/18 06:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 47
M
mostlystrings Offline
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Originally Posted by Jouishy
I don't see why adults (that are not parents) would not understand the principle of paying for an entire semester.

I've taken dance lessons and judo lessons. These are paid at once, in the first 3 weeks of the semester.
It is true that I don't do that with my piano lessons, but it is not because I would mind doing so. It simply that my teacher doesn't ask for it and it is easier to keep track of the payment this way, because HE sometimes cancels. :P So paying at the end of each lesson, I don't have to keep track of how much I've paid, when, for how many lessons, and how many lessons we did finally have. And the amount is easily paid cash (round number).

It's not that they don't understand, just that for private instrument lessons, the prevailing mindset is pay per lesson. If an adult student is swamped with life (work, family, whatever) or just isn't "in the mood" today, there is a financial incentive to cancel i.e. don't pay. Never mind that the appointment time was blocked off by the teacher and possibly another student prevented from signing up and paying for it. If an independent teacher can enforce a policy where the fee is still due and collected in case of late cancellation, that's great. I know I was afraid to do that early in my teaching days (desperate to hold on to any and all students!), and I still hear about cancellation woes from even experienced colleagues.

Another colleague typically takes payment in advance for a block of lessons but recently allowed one student to pay per lesson at the lesson. Apparently, there was at least one lesson given where the payment was forgotten and last I heard, the student/family disappeared without having caught up. I'm sure this is rare but it does sour a person on dealing with pay per lesson. My guess is that a serious/advanced student, who takes an hour and a half weekly lesson, highly respects the teacher and would never dream of pulling this kind of stunt (and in a pinch, there are so many ways to pay people via electronic funds transfer that there should be no excuse).

Originally Posted by Jouishy
I know that in some cities, music lessons are very expensive. In my city, average and standard price is 35$/hour.

*At least* twice that, large US metro. My more advanced students/families who take longer lessons do pay monthly because of the larger amount and I have beginners on semesters or half semesters. I'm not the only teacher here either...free market to shop around...

Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: 8 Octaves] #2752466
07/18/18 07:53 PM
07/18/18 07:53 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 247
Quebec city, QC
CadenzaVvi Offline
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CadenzaVvi  Offline
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Posts: 247
Quebec city, QC
Yeah, I've noticed that my city is pretty cheap. I guess bigger the city, more expensive the prices. Which is normal, since everything tends to cost more in big cities.

Ok, it helps me grasp a better understanding of the issues. Thanks for sharing me those experiences. Monthly paiements seems very normal in that context.

I understand it is not easy to inforce any policy, even though we often should (I say "we" because I can relate to that from other aspects of my life). I think that, with the experience and drawbacks, we learn to be more affirmative to avoid repetition of bad experiences (like the teacher you are talking about who end up giving a lesson for free).
And yeah, paying at every lesson is an incentive for some learners to cancel, hence why I think semester / bi-semester / ... are the best way of asking for paiements (even though that's not the way I deal with my own teacher. I'm wondering if he would feel more "forced" to honour our weekly schedule if I did pay him on a monthly basis grin ).


I'm kidding.
My teacher has very valid reasons to cancel or report our lessons, like concerts and competitions. I wanted to continue lessons this summer, but seeing how busy he is, I've offered him to take a break and he was relieved by my offer. I'm sad, but we'll continue in september (I've got sure of that! "You are okay with the plan of continuing together this fall?" "Of course!" - That exclamation mark really reassured me blush ) and meanwhile, I asked my other teacher to change the focus of our lessons from theory / sight singing / sight reading to practice for the next couple of weeks.

Last edited by Jouishy; 07/18/18 07:57 PM.

My piano journey from day 1
Started piano on February 2016.
Pieces I'm working on :
- Mozart's K545, 1st and 3rd mov
- Tina's theme from FF VI piano collections
Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: 8 Octaves] #2752475
07/18/18 08:18 PM
07/18/18 08:18 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,483
Florida
dogperson Offline
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dogperson  Offline
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Florida
Jouishy
I live in a small town of under 30,000 and my hourly rate is in the ‘big city’ range. As per my initial post on this topic, if I would pay by the semester, that payment would be more than my house payment..... but then my lessons are planned at 52 weeks per year: we reschedule misses if we can. Generally, lessons are about weekly for 49 weeks.

PS I never cancel because I don’t feel prepared. Lessons are the highlight of my week and I do everything possible not to miss.

Re: Adult vs Child Students [Re: 8 Octaves] #2752481
07/18/18 08:48 PM
07/18/18 08:48 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 247
Quebec city, QC
CadenzaVvi Offline
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CadenzaVvi  Offline
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Joined: May 2018
Posts: 247
Quebec city, QC
Well, ok. I don't get why it is so cheaper in here then.

(For 75-minutes weekly lessons, the semester price would be more than what I pay for my house too :P. So maybe everything costs more where you live, including housing, and salaries for everyone / most people are probably ajusted accordingly. Or you have a big house. I have a small one, but I couldn't live more downtown).


My piano journey from day 1
Started piano on February 2016.
Pieces I'm working on :
- Mozart's K545, 1st and 3rd mov
- Tina's theme from FF VI piano collections
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