 |
Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers
(it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!
|
|
|
|
62 members (Barly, bobrunyan, brennbaer, 1200s, 36251, benkeys, 20/20 Vision, anotherscott, bcalvanese, 8 invisible),
1,776
guests, and
307
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,765
4000 Post Club Member
|
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,765 |
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences. I want to take some time to think about this, especially in light of your own personal background. Sorry if I seemed prickly. The quotes seemed facetious. I see now that they weren't intended to be. I believe we now understand each other better. I have a good friend who's child has suffered greatly because of his ADHD especially before finally getting the diagnose and medication. She has shared a lot of her frustration with people's attitude with me, so I would never intentionally make light of such matters. So I assumed you have had to deal with such attitudes as well and that made you prickly. I notice that I used parenthesis again in my previous post. For me they just mean that something is very difficult to define exactly, nothing more...
Last edited by outo; 05/16/17 04:11 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,398
3000 Post Club Member
|
|
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,398 |
I mentioned on another thread that bananas are considered a natural beta-blocker; and yes, it is therefore helpful to eat one before any performance. Two concert pianists have told me that is their practice rather than beta-blockers.
But I need to include they do not suffer from crippling anxiety. I've never heard of bananas being a 'natural beta-blocker' - not even in the multi-day symposium on performance anxiety that I watched online last year - but I suppose there's no harm in trying it out (for scientific research purposes, of course) in my next recital  . The worse that would happen is I might gag on it (I hate bananas, and can't remember the last time I ate one.....). I'll report back in two weeks, with the definitive answer on the yellow tropical banana-shaped fruit  . As promised, I ate the tropical banana-shaped yellow fruit (a.k.a. "banana") before my recital tonight. In fact, I ate two large ones, washed down with plain water about ninety minutes before the recital, on an empty stomach, to ensure that the disgusting squishy fruit wouldn't be contaminated by other foods. Luckily, I didn't gag on it, and didn't feel sick either. (I have a very strong constitution ). What happened during the recital? Well, nothing. My heart still raced, my fingers and hands still felt clammy, my feet were still on the verge of uncontrollable shaking. I still played the fast pieces and fast sections (the Fantasie-Impromptu and also Sibelius's Op.5/5, which I performed for the first time) faster than I intended, but without mishap - I've learnt to practice my fast pieces about 20% faster at home than I wanted to perform them at, to ensure that I could still manage them when my nerves got the better of me - and for quite a lot of the time, I felt like I was on the brink of losing control, as per 'normal' for me when performing for an audience. My 'wrong note count' was no better - or worse - than usual for me under recital conditions. So, my verdict is: bananas are useless for performance anxiety. Unless you believe in them of course, in which case, eat them, by all means. (I hear they do contain a few nutrients). Personally, I think they'd be more helpful for marathon runners and endurance athletes, to top up their CHO stores before and during the events. Unless, of course, they prefer energy gels or even PowerBar...... A very odd "recalled memory" came to me when I was eating the bananas: I found myself back in my boarding school days, as a teenager. I had a high fever, and had to stay in the sanatorium for over a week. When I felt able to eat again, Matron made me a.......banana sandwich. I wrinkled my nose at it, but you don't argue with Matron (not in those days, anyway). My recovery after that sandwich was remarkably swift.....(probably because I didn't want any more banana sandwiches ). Thanks for sharing your experiment, bennevis! However, I think you are really too scientifically minded a person to make the conclusion "Bananas are useless for performance anxiety" from the single data point "Bananas did not affect this individual's performance anxiety in this case." They help for a lot of people, they are one of many things that one can try. (My spouse, a psychotherapist, says that any intervention will make 1/3 of people better, 1/3 of people worse and have no effect on the other 1/3, so the trick is finding the right intervention for the right person.)
Last edited by hreichgott; 05/16/17 09:07 AM.
Heather Reichgott, piano
Working on:
Mel (Mélanie) Bonis - Sevillana, La cathédrale blessée
William Grant Still - Three Visions
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,273
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,273 |
I think you are really too scientifically minded a person to make the conclusion "Bananas are useless for performance anxiety" from the single data point "Bananas did not affect this individual's performance anxiety in this case."
They help for a lot of people, they are one of many things that one can try.
(My spouse, a psychotherapist, says that any intervention will make 1/3 of people better, 1/3 of people worse and have no effect on the other 1/3, so the trick is finding the right intervention for the right person.)
You are right about my 'scientific mind', which is why I added the caveat that if bananas work for you, you should continue using it. After all, if someone I trusted gave me a dummy pill and told me it was a beta-blocker (and I believed him), yet it did nothing for me, I must be pretty impervious to the placebo effect. And I know that beta-blockers work, because I have studied the effects of beta receptor blockage in physiology while at university. Scientists have shown that for some people, placebos still work even when they are told what they are taking, while for others they work only if they believe they are taking an active ingredient. I came from a culture where herbal 'medicines' were in widespread use for minor ailments, but even as a kid, I was aware that most of the evil-smelling and -tasting brews and pills that my mother gave me did nothing for my coughs and colds, even though I believed in their efficacy (knowing nothing then about evidence-based medicine). But I usually pretended that they did, just to avoid having to ingest any more of the nasty stuff..... Incidentally, I'm also one of those who cannot be hypnotized, as I discovered many years ago in a series of "alternative therapy" workshops related to my job. Sometimes, I think life would be so much easier if I was amenable to the power of suggestion....... 
If music be the food of love, play on!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,654
1000 Post Club Member
|
|
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,654 |
Any guesses as to how a placebo might work if the subject taking it was told he/she was taking a placebo? It doesn't make any sense.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,543
3000 Post Club Member
|
|
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,543 |
Any guesses as to how a placebo might work if the subject taking it was told he/she was taking a placebo? It doesn't make any sense. Yes, if you tell them it's a placebo, it still works. Soon we may have doctors saying, "I can prescribe a placebo for that, if you want." I read a fairly long story recently about people studying that effect over multiple studies, although I can't find that story now. Here is story of one study
Poetry is rhythm
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,273
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,273 |
Presently, it is unethical for doctors to prescribe dummy pills (outside of trials), even if they tell patients they are dummies. My friend who gave me that dummy ß-blocker had to make the pills himself, and he told me afterwards that he uses them in his own small-scale trials (of which I was one of his guinea pigs.....).
He also told me that I was actually in a minority who reported absolutely no beneficial effect at all from the placebo, despite being convinced it was the real thing. From his own (unpublished and informal) trials, some 30% reported some improvement even when they were told the pills were dummies. But it must be stressed that he only tried them for minor/self-limiting or 'non-dangerous' ailments or conditions. So far, they have included IBS, tension headaches, migraines, dysmenorrhea (painful periods), PMT, menopausal symptoms, DOMS.....and performance anxiety.
If music be the food of love, play on!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,398
3000 Post Club Member
|
|
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,398 |
Any guesses as to how a placebo might work if the subject taking it was told he/she was taking a placebo? It doesn't make any sense. Ritual in itself can be very powerful. And it can be helpful just to get a person to cheer for themselves a bit more. Saying "I am doing a thing to make my experience better" already improves the experience. Anxiety makes us feel that we're not on our own team anymore, and perhaps anything that we can do to put ourselves back on our own team is beneficial. Even if it's all in our head... anxiety is in our head to begin with!
Heather Reichgott, piano
Working on:
Mel (Mélanie) Bonis - Sevillana, La cathédrale blessée
William Grant Still - Three Visions
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,656
2000 Post Club Member
|
|
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,656 |
Any guesses as to how a placebo might work if the subject taking it was told he/she was taking a placebo? It doesn't make any sense. Yes, if you tell them it's a placebo, it still works. Soon we may have doctors saying, "I can prescribe a placebo for that, if you want." I read a fairly long story recently about people studying that effect over multiple studies, although I can't find that story now. Here is story of one studyAs counterintuitive as it may seem, this is empirically true, as a generalization. I was as surprised as everyone else until I saw some of the evidence.
SRF
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 25
Full Member
|
|
Full Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 25 |
My technique for performance anxiety is mind over matter. You need to control your mind and remind yourself that you are sitting at the keyboard not to impress people but to help them. You need to get into the state of mind that your performance is not a test. Get into the state of mind that you have when you play all by yourself. I dont think i will ever try any drug as i already have too much anxiety about using drugs. But i have successfully performed on organ and harpsichord without nervousness by taking control of my mind.. Easier said than done, but i have experienced crippling performance anxiety many times. only recently i have learned to control my mind by "believing" in my purpose as a performer in different ways that dont have anything to do with being judged or anything like that.
basically what i tell myself in my mind is: I am helping the audience experience the composers music. This is not a test. just be cool,... flush away the nerves with your mind, enjoy the music and help your audience enjoy it with you
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,273
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,273 |
only recently i have learned to control my mind by "believing" in my purpose as a performer in different ways that dont have anything to do with being judged or anything like that.
basically what i tell myself in my mind is: I am helping the audience experience the composers music. This is not a test. just be cool,... flush away the nerves with your mind, enjoy the music and help your audience enjoy it with you That's basically how I manage to perform. Just. That's why I'd never perform for knowledgeable audiences - I'd feel I'm being judged, because they'll likely have heard the music before (unless I play a program consisting only of obscure music by Giovanni Platti, Maria Szymanowska and Dorothy Howells), and will be comparing me to Horowitz, or whoever they last heard on CD, YT or live. The same way I compare and judge others' performances.
If music be the food of love, play on!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,395
9000 Post Club Member
|
|
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,395 |
Any guesses as to how a placebo might work if the subject taking it was told he/she was taking a placebo? It doesn't make any sense. Maybe it is because what the mind needs to get the process going is the framework, a certain kind of action taking place. The veracity of the content that the action frames may not be what matters so much (even if we are programmed by our hyper-materialistic culture to think otherwise). Continuing that line of thought, an interesting variable to test regarding the effectiveness of this approach might be whether or not the patient/client paid for the placebo, and, if so, how much. I am guessing it makes a difference. And speaking of money, I wonder how many pharmaceutical companies have already paid researchers to come up with studies aimed at undermining this particular area of mind/body medicine, as well as lobbying against it in every other way they can think of. And, all the while, planning the introduction of a range of proprietary placebo products.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 25
Full Member
|
|
Full Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 25 |
The same way I compare and judge others' performances. i too judge performers harshly in my head while listening to them.. I think one also needs to have absolute confidence in their technique and style of playing to feel at ease with the audience. if one has questionable confidence in their ability then maybe they are not ready for performance
|
|
|
|
Forums43
Topics223,385
Posts3,349,194
Members111,631
| |
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
