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#2250423 - 03/22/14 10:59 AM Re: Kawai CA95 - The Inside Story, With Pictures [Re: McBuster]  
Joined: May 2005
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Carey Offline
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Carey  Offline
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Gee - has anyone noticed that this thread is a year old? Doubtful that the OP is going to respond.


Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai CA-65
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#2250528 - 03/22/14 03:10 PM Re: Kawai CA95 - The Inside Story, With Pictures [Re: McBuster]  
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R_B Offline
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Depends... maybe it has been replaced BECAUSE of the twang thang.
At a guess this thread is still on his watched topics list, he MIGHT be interested in either warning other potential owners off, or reassuring them.
One way or another it should have reached a conclusion by now - doncha think ?



#2250865 - 03/23/14 09:33 AM Re: Kawai CA95 - The Inside Story, With Pictures [Re: McBuster]  
Joined: Mar 2013
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Splash Offline
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Splash  Offline
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Mine is a CN-34 and I have a similar problem. F below central C has a metallic sound when is pressed hard. It is clear when not using headphones but it is gone when transposing. My opinion is that all Kawai DPs share the same sample.

#2251838 - 03/25/14 10:36 AM Re: Kawai CA95 - The Inside Story, With Pictures [Re: McBuster]  
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McBuster Offline
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St Paul Minnesota USA
Okay fellas, after one year ...

The "Twang" is more subtle, still there, and if it aggravates me enough, I have another three-finger bourbon. And if I do not imbibe, I simply do not care anymore and simply ignore the thing. My playing is so lousy, that is the --least-- of my issues these days.

:-)


Jon ...

SuperDuper Vaporpiano
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#2251845 - 03/25/14 10:54 AM Re: Kawai CA95 - The Inside Story, With Pictures [Re: Splash]  
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evamar Offline
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Originally Posted by Splash
Mine is a CN-34 and I have a similar problem. F below central C has a metallic sound when is pressed hard. It is clear when not using headphones but it is gone when transposing. My opinion is that all Kawai DPs share the same sample.


All that say that they share it, that is... there might be different samples depending on models/ages. It also happens with the CA65. Again, we are only talking of a handful of notes, not a biggie.

I prefer the Concert Grand 2 voice anyway, and it's almost not noticeable using it, enough for me and I'm quite picky. Even though the Concert Grand 1 is supposed to be better, it is a bit too bright for me but that's just my taste, I really like the Grand 2.

But I really cannot understand why actual faults existing in the acoustic (and that metallic ring in certain notes is a fault, not a characteristic) is reproduced in a digital, when it would be just so easy to correct it. Precisely because it is far more noticeable with speakers than it is with the acoustic. The acoustic piano might camouflage it with its rich undertones (and all those characteristics...) but it can be quite obvious in a digital using that sample, so how it will sound in the digital should be more important that how it actually sounds in the acoustic.

I thought that pianists with trained ears are extremely exigent, so really cannot understand digitals reproducing faults. Let them try to get as close as possible to the best things, but they already have their own problems as to also imitate the problems of the acoustics.

Don't get me wrong, very happy with my dp, and I still think that it offers far more than any at its price range, but I simply think that it would be much better if instead of reproducing faults the acoustic sound was adapted to sound at its best in a different medium, because a dp is not an acoustic, as simple as that.

KawaiJames, just in case you are reading this... any chance of a software update to amend those metallic notes in the sample? It should be easily done by all those clever Kawai sound engineers... laugh
Just to make it even better.... Please pass the feedback as several people seem to notice it.


Last edited by evamar; 03/25/14 11:02 AM.

Serious since Dec 2013. March 2014, Kawai CA95!

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted

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#2251882 - 03/25/14 01:06 PM Re: Kawai CA95 - The Inside Story, With Pictures [Re: McBuster]  
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McBuster Offline
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St Paul Minnesota USA
Just another piece of info.

As I stated in the original post, long ago, if I record to a USB Drive or wear headphones, this Twanging issue is -----not----- present. All the sampled notes sound the same in tone charm wit personality and looks.

It is -----only----- when I use the speakers/soundboard and the Tech and I deemed it a mechanical issue, not sampling nor software. One day I may open it up and find the spot ... Maybe ...

So, like so many things in "life", I have ignored it and hardly notice it any longer.


Jon ...

SuperDuper Vaporpiano
Sailor, Consultant, Gourmet, Dreamer
#2251910 - 03/25/14 02:09 PM Re: Kawai CA95 - The Inside Story, With Pictures [Re: McBuster]  
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evamar Offline
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evamar  Offline
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Spanish living in UK
? I can still hear it with headphones (extremely cheap headphones, 15, all being said) in Concert Grand 1, but not as much as with speakers. Maybe it's a combination of both mechanical and sampling?

Anyway... even without this, I would still prefer the Concert Grand 2 voice and I don't really notice it using this voice, with our without headphones, so not really an issue for me...


Serious since Dec 2013. March 2014, Kawai CA95!

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted

[Linked Image]
#2252109 - 03/25/14 10:32 PM Re: Kawai CA95 - The Inside Story, With Pictures [Re: McBuster]  
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lolatu Offline
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UK
First of all, thanks OP for the pictures. It gave me the confidence to open up the case and sort out the issue I had with the humming transformer.

I do not have any kind of "twang" on either F3 or G4.

However I do notice that for Concert Grand 1, the sampling of some notes sounds different, compared to adjacent ones. In particular:

- C6 has a sharp metallic ring

- A5 (and to a some extent Bb5) sounds dull, almost muted, and lacking bite when played loud

I just donned my headphones, turned off reverb, and went through the whole keyboard and also noticed:

- G2 has a metallic ring / buzz when played loud

- G#3 has a weird bell-like overtone played loud

- G#4 sounds "harsher" than surrounding notes

I suppose every piano has its imperfections. But I kind of agree with evamar that any such imperfections should be detected and ironed out as part of the sampling process. A good piano technician needs to be on hand who can sort out any buzzes or twangs, and the offending notes re-sampled. A piano that will be reproduced thousands of times and has no prospect of adjustment must be held to higher standards!

Concert Grand 2 does not suffer the same idiosyncracies, as it is a different sample set. Rather than 88 different notes, the stretching is obvious to hear, in groups of 4 notes. Try a chromatic descending scale starting at middle C, count in 4 and listen as the tone changes.

The other patches are a very mixed bag, IMO. Studio Grand and Mellow Grand sound pretty good (I think they're based on the 88-note Concert Grand sample). Studio Grand 2 barely sounds like a piano, and Modern Piano has approximately 1 dynamic level. Never mind; 3 good pianos is plenty anyway.


Kawai CA95 / Steinberg UR22 / Sony MDR-7506 / Pianoteq Stage + Grotrian / Galaxy Vintage D
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810
#2252302 - 03/26/14 10:07 AM Re: Kawai CA95 - The Inside Story, With Pictures [Re: McBuster]  
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Splash Offline
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Splash  Offline
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Hi again, yesterday I carefully test more keys by using the Light touch setting and actually more keys have a metallic/different sound than others. I can hear too the sound when using headphones at a high volume level.

Maybe Kawai can publish an software upgrade to solve it.

This not happens in Mellow setting and harder to sense in Concert Grand 2.

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