Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician

Schumann's 4th Finger
Schumann's 4th Finger Enigma Resolved
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Modern Piano Moving
Modern Piano Moving
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online
109 registered (accordeur, AZ_Astro, AndyE, Arty Movie, alexcawley, 27 invisible), 2081 Guests and 10 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#35402 - 09/04/05 03:53 PM Quality of Bergmann and Hoffman and khune?
MDes Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/03/05
Posts: 30
Loc: Vancouver, BC
I've been shopping around for a cheap upright (around $3000-$4000 CAD, maybe a bit more if it's something I really like) and am looking for one that's at least 48 inches. The only ones I found that were in my price range were a new Hoffman and Kuhne 48 inch for $3500 and a new Bergmann 48 inch for $3000 (sorry I don't know the exact models). I couldn't really find any cheap used pianos that were 10 years old or less; for example all the Yamaha U1's in my price range were at least 20 years old. So, all I'm pretty much left with is the Hoffman or the Bergmann, unless I buy a 20 year old Yamaha.

My question is does anyone know if Hoffman or Bergmann pianos are built well? I know they're both built in China, but I don't know how reliable they are. I like the sound of the Bergmann more, as the Hoffman sounds really dull, and I have no idea if a tuner or technician can change that.

And, if these pianos aren't reliable, how reliable would a 20 year old U1 be?

Thanks for all the replies.

PS. I've only been playing for around a year so I'm still new.

Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#35403 - 09/05/05 01:46 PM Re: Quality of Bergmann and Hoffman and khune?
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012

Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 18127
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
Sorry...I don't know much (= anything) about those two brands. Have you read the thread on the forum entitled something like "best upright for $4K"? It may have some suggestions for brands you haven't tried yet.

And, of course, you may want to read the Piano Book by Larry Fine to see what your options might be in that price range.

But all other things being equal, by all means go with the piano whose sound you like. A piano that sounds "really dull" in the showroom is likely to prove disappointing when you get home.

Anyway, hope this bumps your thread so that somebody with better knowledge of your choices can comment... and good luck with shopping!
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

#35404 - 09/05/05 02:08 PM Re: Quality of Bergmann and Hoffman and khune?
Steve Cohen Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10835
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
The Bergmann is made by Young Chang in their Tiajin Factory. For an entry-level piano they are a good value.

Hoffman & Kuhne don't show up in Larry Fine's book or his suppliment. Likey they are a "private label", made in China. Depending on where it is made and who made it, it might be OK too.

The Bergmann is a known entity and unless you hear more about the Hoffman, I would lean toward the Bergmann between the 2.

If you are willing to go to $4000CAD, I too advise that you keep shopping. At $3000CAD therre isn't much out there that would be better.
Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

#35405 - 09/05/05 04:05 PM Re: Quality of Bergmann and Hoffman and khune?
MDes Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/03/05
Posts: 30
Loc: Vancouver, BC
Yea, I'm going to check out a couple more stores today (most of them are closed on labor day). One has a 50" Petrof but I don't know how old it is, does anyone know how old is too old for a Petrof? I'll probably be keeping it for around 10 years, 5 at the least.

Also, does anyone know if Heintzman pianos are good? There are 2 48" Heintzmans at the store I'm about to go to, but one is $3000 and the other $4000, hopefully I'll see whats up with that when I get there. Are Heintzman pianos reliable though?

(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#35406 - 09/05/05 08:15 PM Re: Quality of Bergmann and Hoffman and khune?
MDes Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/03/05
Posts: 30
Loc: Vancouver, BC
Ok, I just came back from probably my last round of sampling pianos. So my final question is, as long as I like the sound of both pianos, what will the difference be between buying the new Bergmann for $3000 or buying a 20 year old used yamaha for $4000? Other than sound, what are the other factors that I should consider when buying a piano, keeping in mind that I'm still new and hope to use the piano for the next 5 to maybe 8 years. Will the yamaha have no problems if it's already 20 years old? Or is it better to buy the new piano?

#35407 - 09/06/05 12:31 AM Re: Quality of Bergmann and Hoffman and khune?
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 15233
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
"What will be the difference between buying a new Bergman for $3000 or buying a 20 year old used Yamaha for $4000"
As a previous Bergman-Young Chang dealer I could be perhaps considered too biased to even contemplate an answer here but I *can* tell you that depending on which model, the guy who sells you the grey-market Yamaha will make more $$ on the deal.

Also, don't forget that in only 9 years, you will have a by now 29[/b] year old Yamaha [ by the way,how do you know it's 20 years old?] whereas with the Bergman you would at least still have a whole year full factory warranty left.

Don't tell me this makes no difference in any possible resale value - especially since Yamaha Canada seems to block any [possibly required...] replacement parts to grey-market pianos in the future.

In hindesight, you would probably say one day you could have done better either way - but for that you need to shop a bit more......

P.S. The 'Hoffman-Kuehne' is a private label piano made lock-stock and barrel by Sejung/China.

I am not aware of even one single component or factor that would make this piano in any way,shape or form, connected to the old German name from Dresden, by the way, never been known to anyone even at that time.....

Good luck in your search!

Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642 www.eliteheritagepianos.ca Edmonton, Alta dealers for Estonia,
Brodmann 780-405-8908


Moderator:  Ken Knapp, Piano World 
Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
What's Hot!!
New Forums Location & New Piano World Site
Why Do You Play The Piano?
Posting Pictures on the Forums
on Piano World

Piano Classified Ads
Pierce Piano Atlas

Sweetwater Hiring Keyboard Player!
Sweetwater Hiring Keyboard Player
Grotrian Concert
for Pianoteq out now
A. Geyer Pianos
A. Geyer Pianos
Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World) our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.

Piano Lamp LED

Free Shipping on Jansen Artist Piano Benches
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Learning is getting harder
by DutchTea
04/24/17 05:58 PM
Liszt Paganini Etude in E played by Horowitz
by pianoloverus
04/24/17 03:37 PM
Should I buy Schafer & Sons upright for $600?
by Danforz
04/24/17 02:59 PM
Piano Rebuild Project - Possible?
by cmb13
04/24/17 02:24 PM
The best ever Rach 3?
by bennevis
04/24/17 01:12 PM
Sheet Music Plus
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
Forum Stats
87,493 Registered Members
44 Forums
179,182 Topics
2,618,807 Posts

Most users ever online: 15,252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |

copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission