If you could only choose 2, 1 full and 1 standard, which would you choose?


I'm still working through my decision. I liked the 280VC a lot but the upper register is a bit too bright. The Yamaha seems like a must-have considering I play a little rock, but Yam's are not my favorite tone for classical/solo piano. I might change my mind after trying the full version, not sure. So that leaves Bosendorfer Imperial and Bluthner for my 'character piano.' Maybe. Haha The 280VC is pretty nice if I don't play the highest 2 octaves.

I have the Blüthner, VC280, and Bösendorfer Imperial. I like all three and use them all regularly. If I had to drop one it would be the VC280, there are just a couple of niggly things with it, but I'm glad I don't have to.

Hello,

I am definitely in love with the Blüthner 1895, hence this thread:

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/3127646/i-fell-in-love-with-vsl-bl-thner-1895.html

I still have some saving to do to upgrade my hardware, and also am awaiting VSL's transition to iLok to be completed. I'll probably use a demo license to determine whether I need the full or can do with the standard license.

As for a second one, no other VSL piano is on my radar. If any, it should be one that is recorded in their small (just the piano as much as possible) ambience.

For classical/solo/character, isn't the Blüthner lovely?

Cheers and happy decision making,

HZ

@HZPiano I agree about the small room, I think that's one aspect that makes the 280VC shine. I could trade the 280VC for the Yamaha, I'll have to try it for some rock tunes. IDK if I have enough time to tweak anything though, time is running out

@KevinM are you using full versions of all 3? If you had to pick one to have only standard version, which would that be?

I have the full version of all three. I seem to have consistently gone for the mic (type and position) that are only available in the full version. I never liked the sound of the mid1 mics for example and I have a mid2 mic in the mix for all three of the virtual pianos. For the Blüthner and BI I have the ribbon mic selected as my close mic.

I think it might be the VC280 if I could only have the standard version.

The Bösendorfer Imperial (for me) takes the least amount of effort (tweaking) to sound great. It's warm, powerful, consistent with plenty of dynamic range. It's the one I play the most and if I could only have one virtual piano, the BI would be it.

VSL's Blüthner sounds the most authentic in terms of wood and steel vibrations. Its dynamic range is comparable to an upright, but with a beauty in the upper registers that uprights just don't have. It would be my number two if I could only have two.

God Bless,
David

Bravo! Why be limited to just two?

The Bluethner seems to strike a nice balance, what concerns size, price, and maybe sound. I'm a fan of Bluethners in general. With at least 20% off, it might become my next buy.

Life in Paradise ain't cheap! Actually I just have too many expensive hobbies

Expensive indeed.
I also have three VSL pianos - D, CFX and Bluetner, all full libraries - but in a sense I paid triple price since I use only the D and almost never use the other two...
In fact, I would be very happy to exchange both the CFX and the Bluetner for a VC280 which I did like but returned, as I feared it would go the way of the other two.

On the other hand, I am so happy with the VSL Concert D-274 that the whole journey has been worth the price of admission to me.
So this would be the 1 VSL piano to have IMO, but I have a feeling I am in the minority here...

+1 on the D274 (silent majority???). It has a very distinct "in your face" attack and sonority. But I agree that it may be too overwhelming, and that is why I also have Garritan CFX for its mellow tone and natural room reverb. VSL Bosendorfer Imperial would probably give the same balance, but I already have the garritan.

The Bluthner sounds horrible under my begginer's fingers... I think the Bluthner is very demanding on good technique of touch and pedalling: it sounds really beautifully with a lot of ancient character if played by a good pianist, and sounds as the worst uncontrolled digital piano when played by me... I don't know if this makes sense. The D274 does not have this effect and if I play only one note (that's about my maximum ) I can almost resemble Argerich...

Great thread so far, thanks EVERYONE who chimed in!

I agree, it's likely not going to stop at one or two. I thought the CFX and the 280VC sounded pretty good during all the research I did, and still I was just amazed at the tone and playability. Not to mention its being played through a pretty decent chain of components =D

I really love the VSL CFX. Bought it several months ago and tinkered with it for a week or so, and now it stays put and I use it every time I turn on my MP11SE. To me, it’s the best I’ve played in terms of combined tone and dynamics/playability.

I also play with the Kawai main sound volume set to around 10% of total sound (with the VSL accounting for the other 90%). I’ve found it helps to hide any VST latency…I have a 2017ish MBP, good but not great for a heavy VSL library, so I have the latency set a little longer to prevent blips and use the Kawai internal sound to compensate. Working like a charm at the moment!

I'd choose the D274 standard (which I already have) and Bosendorfer 280VC full (if I have the money and storage). Decision made, no change.

David: glad to know you also like the D274. It's a beast and should fit your repertoire like a glove. What preset do you use?

Well, I've only bought the Bluthner but spent too much time listening to demo tracks of the other ones. I absolutely love the bluthner and I don't regret the purchase at all, although as noted in another thread, I tweaked it to gradually increase the volume of roughly the bottom two octaves to make it sound just a little more modern in terms of bass dynamics.

Would be great if there were more demos of the Bosendorfer upright. I actually really like how it sounds from what I've seen so far, almost like a small grand. Ironically, I think sounds more like a modern grand than the bluthner does! But no idea how it plays.

You've already got my two favourites, Joe!

FWIW a couple of the CFX presets (both based on standard, not full) I use are in this cloud folder
https://app.sugarsync.com/iris/wf/D9003313_09769984_7688463


There are lots of other presets available for download in a sticky thread on the VSL forum!

@napilopez there are a ton of tracks on Soundcloud with the Bosendorfer upright.

I love the lower 2/3 of the 280VC but I feel like the first purchase shouldn't need 'that much' work to make enjoyable. I'll have to look into some treble cut for that upper register or something. I think I only have 3 days left or so (over a crazy work schedule) and still need to load and try the Imperial.

Based on tone alone, my 3 favorite are 280VC, Bluthner, and maybe Steinway with the ribbon/tube mics. CFX seems like a no-brainer because it sounds exactly like it's supposed to, it's just hard to get excited about a Yamaha. Maybe cooling off the lower end of the Steinway will handle rock, or maybe the 280VC with a little work. But I need to spend more time with the CFX. I literally turned it on and just started jamming with it, so that's a pretty darn good sign!

Whoah, THANKS @CraiginNZ! Any chance you have one for 280VC??

I do, but they're on another machine - I'll pull a few off later!

The CFX is so musical and inspires me to play so much more than other VSTs. I’m surprised it’s not getting much love in this thread thus far!

I just bought a new hard drive, I guess this is getting serious!

No way, you are saving thousands! Imagine buying the real things... We are blessed to be able to play such wonderful VIs

I have three VSL Synchron pianos, Bösendorfer Imperial, Bösendorfer Upright and Bösendorfer 280VC (only this last in full version) and plan to add a couple more on next offer, for sure the CFX being one of them.

For me the Bösendorfer Imperial is a must have, and I guess full version will be even more enjoyable. Perhaps some day...

Lol, yeah I just told a musician friend I might be treating myself to a $250,000 piano for my bedroom!

I'm not complaining! I want to put Windows and maybe 2 VSL pianos on the same boot drive, so I'm upgrading from 250GB to 1TB m.2 nvme drive. It will be nice to have super fast boot and hopefully less issues with popping/drop-outs.

Hopefully I can stop working, get some sleep, and play with these demos before my time expires!

Yes, I got the standard library. I had the great Vlad K on this forum help me mix a warm sounding preset that I save by default, so it sounds less fatiguing to me. But I have a hunch I may play the 280VC more if I had it, using the mid2 position only. Anyway, it's good to envision it. The pianos are simply too big for storage IMO!!! If they could losslessly compress the samples, say in flac format, that would be so much better!!!

Vladk? Care to distribute that preset?

Just sent you the preset, check your messages. Sorry I only have the free version of WeTransfer.

Do you guys think the VSL libraries would run well on an external Samsung T7? Has anybody tried that?

I don't think I have it.

Vlad: David just sent me. Will try it. Thanks to both.

TheodorN: no idea but I have used both the internal SSD and an external cheap SSD (both with CrystalMark medium-high transfer rates: nothing stellar...). Performance was similar, but I only use 3 mics at most.

I believe that all samples are accessed from RAM, and the SSD is only critical to load to ram memory. I assume that all ssds will perform similarly (and will only differ at readiness not playability. But I may be wrong).

The max transfer rate of the T7 is supposed to be 1000 MB/s. That is much lower than NvME, but still pretty good, and twice as much as most conventional (non-NvME) SSDs. I also believe the bottleneck is much more likely to be in the CPU, or the RAM, before the SSD ever gets to be the weak link.

They should run without issue. As it so happens, I just got the Bosenderfers to add to the bluthner, and I pulled out my Samsung T3 to store them. It's only about half as fast as the T7 (~450 MBps vs ~1050 read speeds). The Bosendorfers run just as smoothly on the T3 as the as the bluthner does on my internal NVMe drive, so the T7 should have no issue.

Thanks, napilopez.

I don't have any complete VSL libraries on external drives, but I've got the extra mics for the 280VC on a T5, and it all runs very comfortably with my buffer at 64 (via a 2nd gen Focusrite Scarlett interface). It certainly doesn't seem to pose any problems having the standard/additional mics on separate drives!

Have added a few 280 presets to that folder!

You are amazing! Thanks so much for doing that.

This thread has been amazing - we all know how difficult it is to 'explain sound' and that we all have different perceptions and equipment - but having now used 3 VSL pianos I completely get what everyone is talking about!
(Of the 3 I've tried)

Bosendorfer Imperial: "Even, balanced..." If you want one piano that can do everything and with the least amount of tweaking, this is probably it. Nice full bass, some Bosendorfer character, not too strident up top. It's superpowers are accuracy and loyalty - it's not a specialist, it puts you in control and has your back every step of the way. I tried this one last and can't say much about full vs standard versions as I went right to full, since it had some pretty serious shoes to fill. It's my least favorite of the 3 so I didn't spend time playing with standard version (yet.) I think my trial ends today or tomorrow, so....

CFX: Someone described it as "musical" and I agree - other ways to describe it could be "organic, responsive, coherent." Out of the box the low end is a little light (IMO, and with my equipment) and the top end a little thin, but this was quickly and easily corrected for with some EQ. The CFX's super powers are dynamics and space. I could go either way regarding the standard/full version - the EQ does pretty well at warming up the standard mic's tone, and the Close 2 on it's own isn't anything spectacular, but you get get a nice warm and holographic setup with the full version.

280VC: This one has been my favorite based on demo tone. I haven't seen many/any people say this was their #1, and I agree it's got a few rough edges. Out of the box, the top end is pretty strident and the hammer/attack is pretty dominating. But, it's got a really rare blend of character and playability - I find that pianos with character usually limit my repertoir as there are only a few things they sound good doing. But the 280VC really sounds great doing everything. What it lacks in the BI's even-ness, or the CFX's coherence/connected-ness, it makes up for with sparkle and 'magic.' No ribbon mic in the full version unfortunately, but the tube mic does help to warm it up and smooth out some of the 'hammer attack.'

Thank you for this description!!! I'm hoping someone could render a midi file using the 280VC and a daw, or maybe talk me out of the temptation to buy it while it's EDU discounted...

I'm going to get the 280VC and the CFX. If I had an EDU or other discount I'd buy full versions of both, immediately

Happy playing! I'm sure you'll enjoy them - and you can always upgrade later! I haven't been able to bring myself to pay the upgrade fee for the CFX as it's a lot for the one extra close mic! (though I still want it!)

Thanks! And I totally agree - I'd have a hard time upgrading the Yamaha too. Ideally I would get the full library on sale. Otherwise I may just settle for the standard version.

Hello,

@Joe Garfield, To me, that is an interesting and useful write-up on these three VSLs, thank you!

As is this thread.

Cheers and happy further decision making,

HZ

Bosendorfer Upright. I even like it more after purchasing VI Labs Modern U, which is great too.

It's definitely underrated. Other than the a slightly muddy quality to the bass typical of uprights, it sounds a fair bit like a small grand.

I too personally prefer the tone of the Bosendorfer upright to the modern U, which I also own, although the modern U might be the most out of the box playable library I've encountered. The VI Labs folks are scripting wizards.

+1

I am also enjoying the Bosëndorfer Upright quite a lot lately, although playability is somewhat better on the Modern U

Both are keepers

As long as the T7 has a direct USB C or USB 3.0+ connection, then the weakest link will be the T7 at 1000 MB/s (which is not weak!) Ram and CPUs are much faster - the limiting factors are actually the connections to the processor. SSDs are limited to 600MB/s because that's about as fast as the SATA connection can stream the data to the processor, so there's no need to make a drive that reads much faster. NVMEs are fast because they use similar technology to RAM, including similar connection to the processor. But NVMEs need to have processors (many of the NVME drives have dedicated on-board processors) to manage the non-volatile memory, so they still run slower than RAM. USB devices are limited by the USB cable and connection speed, which is 480MB/s for the older black ones, 4800 BM/s for the blue ones, and faster for the newest generation including USB C. USB is still not as fast as the RAM or processor.

Never mind what's above, I think I just had a senior moment! lol. You weren't saying the speed of RAM would the bottleneck, the lack of RAM would be.