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Posted By: Ajax69 Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/22/20 08:25 AM
Hi everyone.

I know this cat has been skinned a zillion times in different ways in this forum. And elsewhere. But those threads usually have as many different viewpoints as there are posts in them. Which leaves me more than a little confused. So - I read them all (more or less), talked to a LOT of people and tried to narrow my options to a shortlist of my own. But I'm new at this so please excuse if I'm totally off track here.

My requirements and prerequisites are as follows:

1. The instruments: Primarily Kawai MP11SE. But occasionally my Hammond XK-3c
2. Used at home. Room roughly 12 x 24 ft with a 8 ft ceiling. No big audiences, primarily harassing family members. And the dog.
3. I want two speakers for stereo sound. No subwoofer
4. I don't need high volumes, but "high quality" sound in both bass, middle and high tone registers
5. I'm also looking for decent representation of the XK-3c integrated Leslie simulator
6. I believe active studio monitors will do the job
7. My budget is $ 500 - 700 (total)

Now here's my shortlist:
- 2 x Yamaha HS8
- 2 x Adam Audio T8V
- 2 x Adam Audio A8X (twice my budget, but I might stretch this far if these are clearly superior)

Would really appreciate your feedback on this.

Stay safe, everyone!
Posted By: giu Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/22/20 08:55 AM
I have tried 10s of speakers before settling on Genelec 8330 which are outside your budget. Within your budget the IK Multimedia iLoud MTM were the ones I liked the most.
Posted By: Abdol Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/22/20 01:42 PM
I'd go with HS8. You can sell them easily. They retain good resale value and you can easily sell them to buy better monitors later when you have deeper pockets.

HS series is industry standard and there is a good market for used ones. You can find used HS series in great conditions too.
Posted By: ChrisGoesPiano Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/22/20 08:18 PM
You don't need monitor speakers for use in a home environment. Get a pair of Roland CM30 cube's, right within your budget. Very nice sound quality, and they sound more like an actual piano would, as opposed to the 'clean' sound you get from 'studio' monitors... No need to 'calibrate' them either, or positioning them to find the sweet spot.
Posted By: Ajax69 Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/22/20 10:17 PM
Good points everyone. Thank's. I thought I needed a minimum of 8" to get the bass tones out in a proper sounding way. Since I don't want an extra subwoofer. Is that wrong?
Posted By: Charles Cohen Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/22/20 10:32 PM
Originally Posted by ChrisGoesPiano
You don't need monitor speakers for use in a home environment. Get a pair of Roland CM30 cube's, right within your budget. Very nice sound quality, and they sound more like an actual piano would, as opposed to the 'clean' sound you get from 'studio' monitors... No need to 'calibrate' them either, or positioning them to find the sweet spot.

It's an interesting idea. It has some problems:

a) A pair of CM-30's costs $500. That's $100 more than (for example) a pair of JBL 308P mk2 8"powered monitors. I was going to write:

Quote
The JBL's will out-perform the CM-30's on every measurable parameter (frequency response, SPL, maybe dispersion).

But Roland doesn't publish any specs for SPL, frequency response, or distortion for the CM-30. So there's no telling how good (or bad) it is. I'd make a bet, though:

. . . the 30 watts of the CM-30 will _not_ be louder than the 130 watts of the JBL 308P.

b) The assumption that "clean" sound is somehow closer to an "actual piano" is unsupported.
It's hard to support logically:

. . . Wouldn't you want the sound you hear, to be as close as possible to the sound
. . . . that the DP maker recorded, from an acoustic piano ?

(c) The tweeter in the CM-30 is a 2" tweeter, coaxial with the woofer.

. . . Why do you think that would be _less_ directional than the 1" dome tweeter (with a little horn for increased dispersion) of the JBL 308P ?

I'm not saying that, if you have a pair of CM-30's lying around, they'd sound bad. But I wonder if they'd sound _better_ than a pair of 8" JBL powered monitors. And I wonder if they'd do justice
(especially in the low bass) to the very nice sampled sound in an MP11.
Posted By: Charles Cohen Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/22/20 10:45 PM
Originally Posted by Ajax69
Good points everyone. Thank's. I thought I needed a minimum of 8" to get the bass tones out in a proper sounding way. Since I don't want an extra subwoofer. Is that wrong?

Quote
. . . But occasionally my Hammond XK-3c . . .

Check the fundamental frequency of the lowest note on the XK-3c:

. . . That's a guide to what you should look for, as the low end of the frequency-response curve
. . . of whatever you get, with or without subwoofer.

Unlike a piano, which has most of its power in harmonics of the lowest notes, organs can have substantial power in their fundamental frequency. That's 27 Hz for the lowest "A" on a piano; I don't know the range of the XK-3c.

Experience, here and on the Pianoteq forum, is that 5" woofers satisfy some people, 5" woofers plus a subwoofer satisfies just about everyone. I think my EV ZXA1 (8" woofer, horn-loaded tweeter) would be adequate (and overpowered) for your situation, but a pair is outside your budget.

There is one organ-playing member who runs (I think) 12" woofers, but he's an outlier.
Posted By: djvu10 Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/23/20 12:20 AM
I had a pair of Yamaha HS8 in my studio for about a year before moving on to something else. The HS8 was ok for mixing but, to my ears, sounded very sterile when hooked up to my digital piano. I have tried 2 other pairs of active studio monitors that were great for mixing in my recording studio but not with my livingroom keyboard setup, which currently consists of a Kawai MP11se, a Yamahe Tyros 5 and a Roland D-50.

After much research, I realized that studio monitors are made for mixing in the studio, which is almost the opposite of what I'd want for my keyboards. When you're playing, let's say a MP11se, you're playing back recorded samples, much like listening to a good CD and even the best CD sounds terrible on even the best studio monitors. As quite a surprise to me, my keyboards sound much better on my PA speakers and my high-end stereo speakers.

I know many forum members love their active nearfield monitors; I'm just sharing my personal experience with them in case you find yourself not completely satisfied and don't know why.
Posted By: jeffcat Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/23/20 12:36 AM
Probably more linear the better.

From the design process, if they can't guarantee end to end sound, they'd opt to EQ for something simple and linear.

I wonder if Kawai James could find out what speakers they use in the studio for referencing, that'd make this a whole lot easier.
Posted By: David Lai Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/23/20 02:20 AM
Originally Posted by djvu10
I had a pair of Yamaha HS8 in my studio for about a year before moving on to something else. The HS8 was ok for mixing but, to my ears, sounded very sterile when hooked up to my digital piano. I have tried 2 other pairs of active studio monitors that were great for mixing in my recording studio but not with my livingroom keyboard setup, which currently consists of a Kawai MP11se, a Yamahe Tyros 5 and a Roland D-50.

After much research, I realized that studio monitors are made for mixing in the studio, which is almost the opposite of what I'd want for my keyboards. When you're playing, let's say a MP11se, you're playing back recorded samples, much like listening to a good CD and even the best CD sounds terrible on even the best studio monitors. As quite a surprise to me, my keyboards sound much better on my PA speakers and my high-end stereo speakers.

I know many forum members love their active nearfield monitors; I'm just sharing my personal experience with them in case you find yourself not completely satisfied and don't know why.

I think this varies from speaker to speaker. For me, my experiences with the KRK Rokit 5 G4's has been very good, I love listening to music, playing my Ivory II American Concert D, VSL Steinway and other libraries, and just have a lot of fun with it. They are my speakers day in and day out and I don't have any fatigue listening to everything from Beethoven symphonies to Zoom meetings! smile
Posted By: Sweelinck Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/23/20 03:59 AM
For an organ, low C with a 16' stop has a 32Hz fundamental. I use a pair of JBL LSR305 monitors with an LSR2310sp subwoofer. This has a 10" long excursion woofer, enabling it to go deep enough. The subwoofer is not needed for pianos.
Posted By: ChrisGoesPiano Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/23/20 08:23 AM
For what it's worth (and I know this is highly subjective) : I had a pair of iLoud Micro Monitors before the CM30's and although the iLoud's sounded nice, the CM30's are much much better for my use case, which is playing piano and electric piano on my MP11SE in a living room, which is not acoustically optimised (whereas a studio is).

I also have a CA58, which has built-in speakers. Sounds like a piano should sound when sitting in front of one, and that's also what I like about the CM30's.
Again, this is my own opinion.
Posted By: Ajax69 Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/23/20 09:52 AM
Would a pair of JBL LSR 308P MKII work? There's a bit of a delivery problem here in Sweden, but these seem to be available.
Posted By: pold Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/23/20 05:01 PM
size matters, go for 12". Is not about volume, but about getting a sound as close as possible to an acoustic piano "banged" hard. Range doesn't matter, a violin from a 5 or 10" speaker will sound worse than a violin coming from a 12" speaker. Any vst instrument (violin, flute, guitar, piano) will sound better from 2x12" drivers than any smaller drivers. Tweeters are also useless for vst. You are not trying to enjoy your favourite cd, but trying to mimic an acoustic intrument.
Posted By: Sweelinck Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/23/20 09:47 PM
Piano soundboards do not resonate below about 55Hz. You don't need a large woofer for that. Organs are a different matter. A smaller but longer excursion woofer can move as much air as a larger, but shorter excursion woofer.

For PA's size matters for how much space the speaker can fill. This matters for a performance, not for studio usage.

The best spec for a woofer in a bass reflex enclosure is the frequency to which the port is tuned. Bass response will roll off sharply below that frequency. If you want bass down to 32Hz, a port tuned to say 34Hz or lower would be indicative of a speaker that will meet the requirement.
Posted By: Abdol Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/23/20 10:59 PM
Originally Posted by djvu10
I had a pair of Yamaha HS8 in my studio for about a year before moving on to something else. The HS8 was ok for mixing but, to my ears, sounded very sterile when hooked up to my digital piano. I have tried 2 other pairs of active studio monitors that were great for mixing in my recording studio but not with my livingroom keyboard setup, which currently consists of a Kawai MP11se, a Yamahe Tyros 5 and a Roland D-50.

After much research, I realized that studio monitors are made for mixing in the studio, which is almost the opposite of what I'd want for my keyboards. When you're playing, let's say a MP11se, you're playing back recorded samples, much like listening to a good CD and even the best CD sounds terrible on even the best studio monitors. As quite a surprise to me, my keyboards sound much better on my PA speakers and my high-end stereo speakers.

I know many forum members love their active nearfield monitors; I'm just sharing my personal experience with them in case you find yourself not completely satisfied and don't know why.

That's doesn't mean your monitor speakers sounded bad! You liked the audio to have louder treble and boomer low rage! It's your taste of audio. Monitors are desinged for monitoring use. To reproduce the recoded audio as true as it can. All monitor speakers sound flat.

I believe considering the room geometry and EQing in the mixer will solve many of the points you said. But in the end you're talking about a hi-fi setup.

Anyway, if you don't like something or you don't know how to use it, it doesn't mean it's terrible! Especially if you don't know how to use it.
Posted By: dng Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/24/20 12:10 AM
Man this thread is so dangerous. Just went down the rabbit hole reading about DSP-powered Genelec's with digital AES/EBU inputs.... Anybody have the 8330's or other monitors with DSP's that want to add their experience? Amy issues with latency, supposedly the generic's have low lag
Posted By: djvu10 Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/24/20 12:17 AM
I've a professional musician for 40 years, owned a high-end audio store for 12 years, and have had a home studio with several pairs of monitors for more years than I can remember. I know how to use my equipment. As i said in my post, plenty of forum members love their monitors and that's awesome; I and a few other members happen to not like ours. I shared my experience just in case it helps the OP, period.
Posted By: Sweelinck Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/24/20 12:50 AM
Originally Posted by djvu10
I've a professional musician for 40 years, owned a high-end audio store for 12 years, and have had a home studio with several pairs of monitors for more years than I can remember. I know how to use my equipment. As i said in my post, plenty of forum members love their monitors and that's awesome; I and a few other members happen to not like ours. I shared my experience just in case it helps the OP, period.
That's a pretty wide paintbrush you are using. Not all studio monitors are designed for mixing. Those that are best for mixing typically are not the best for piano monitors.
Posted By: djvu10 Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/24/20 03:00 AM
Good nearfield studio monitors are made for mixing and you're absolutely right about the best monitors being the worst for pianos.

To be honest, between PA speakers, high-end audio speakers and studio monitors, I'm least knowledgeable in the studio department. Luckily, I had a chance to spend a lot of time learning from the recording engineers (not the sales engineers) at Sweetwater. I'm originally from Fort Wayne, IN and took care of all of Chuck S's home audio equipment and he and his recording engineers helped me with live and studio equipment.

Good sound engineers probably don't have a clue about the best digital pianos but they know their studio stuff and we can certainly learn a lot from them.
Posted By: Sweelinck Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/24/20 04:32 AM
It comes down to establishing your requirements and selecting speakers/monitors that meet the requirements.

If you want to turn your living room into a recital salon, playing for an audience, some high quality consumer audio or other midfield speakers will work well and hopefully image the sound well. Mastering mains would be ideal, but are very expensive-- they are similar to very high end audiophile stereo speakers, and some are marketed both ways with different packaging.

If you want to play for yourself, smaller speakers can work well. I prefer nearfield monitors that have wider dispersion tweeters giving them a wider listening sweetspot. This also makes them a bit blurrier and less ideal for mixing than the very clinical nearfield monitors used for mixing.

A requirement some have is that the monitors are as flat as possible so as not to introduce unevenness or voicing issues into the piano scale. You can get this with passive stereo speakers if you are willing to pay enough. This involves designing the drivers, crossovers, and cabinets together, and manufacturing to very tight tolerances, which leads to high cost.

With some studio monitors, this is achieved much more cheaply in the digital domain using class D bi-amplification. This enables commodity off-the-shelf drivers to be well integrated using DSP instead of using discrete analog components. JBL studio monitors do this, and I assume the latest generation KRK Rokits do as well, now that they use class D amplification with room correction DSP builtin. Earlier generation KRK's used class AB amps, and were basically passive speakers with passive crossovers and a plate amp mounted in the back.

My $.02 worth.
Posted By: Sweelinck Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/24/20 10:37 PM
I would add that the tradeoff of digital crossovers and digital equalization may be a higher noise floor for the monitors. If you hold your ear 1-2" from the tweeter of a powered monitor you may hear a low level of noise. This may be broadband noise from roundoff errors in DSP, and may be better managed in more expensive monitors than less expensive monitors. The cheapest monitors won't have DSP and may be quieter, but also may be less linear.

Generally, this won't be heard at normal listening distances, and won't be heard when music content from a piano or CD is reproduced, but it is something to evaluate before purchase.
Posted By: David Lai Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/24/20 11:38 PM
Indeed the KRK I have uses class D amplification, but I have it set to the default setting, with no DSP or EQ. Yes, there's some hiss, but I set the input sensitivity to -4DB and all is fine with that. The hiss is actually quite low in my opinion. There are other speakers that have louder hiss levels, including the Rokit 7 from what I heard.
Posted By: Charles Cohen Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/25/20 12:12 AM
Originally Posted by Ajax69
Would a pair of JBL LSR 308P MKII work? There's a bit of a delivery problem here in Sweden, but these seem to be available.

If I had an MP11, they'd be on my short list. Large enough woofers, and enough power to drive them. Budget for speaker stands, as well -- you should try to put them somewhere where you can satisfy:

. . . "Point the tweeters at your ears."
Posted By: Sweelinck Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/25/20 01:14 AM
JBL bass rolloff specs from the previous generation:

LSR305: ~50Hz@-3dB, ~45Hz@-6dB, ~41Hz@-10dB (marketing brochure says 43Hz)

LSR308: ~42Hz@-3dB, ~40Hz@-6dB, ~38Hz@-10dB (marketing brochure says 37Hz)

Because digital pianos don't need to go below 55Hz, the model with 5" driver will work if you don't want to deal with the larger enclosures of the 8" model, but the 8" driver will provide more flexibility for other content if you don't want to get a subwoofer. The 305P and 308P should have very similar specs.

If I didn't already have two pairs of LSR305's, and were purchasing now, I would look hard at the current generation KRK's for the room correction feature, but I have no idea how well the KRK implementation of that works. You can of course get an equalizer and computer + microphone + software and accomplish room correction equalization that way.

The JBL series 3 monitors use the same tweeter waveguide as the JBL Pro M2 mastering monitors:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/M2System--jbl-m2-reference-monitor-system

And JBL uses that feature to push marketing hoopla that you are getting technology from a $22K/pair speaker in a $250/pair speaker. While that is technically true, it also is marketing hype. The M2's are midfield speakers and the waveguide contributes to dispersion of the highs and mids produced by the tweeter. Incorporation of this makes the 3-series monitors not useless for mixing (unless you have an acoustically treated space) because increased reflection off the walls with lead to some phase-shifting and blurring of the sound.

But I find this to be advantageous for instrument monitors. The speakers are not true nearfields, more on the boundary between nearfield and midfield monitors. Having a wider listening field makes them straightforward to place in your space. They will fill a small room adequately.
Posted By: David Lai Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/25/20 01:58 AM
Originally Posted by Sweelinck
If I didn't already have two pairs of LSR305's, and were purchasing now, I would look hard at the current generation KRK's for the room correction feature, but I have no idea how well the KRK implementation of that works.
Yeah, to my ears the bedroom where I'm at needs no room correction, since I feel the sound is concentrated enough to satisfy me listening to everything from solo piano, to an orchestra, to a chamber groups, or a pipe organ. But the room correction is done through a smartphone app, which I believe might not be quite professional? I don't know because I don't feel the need of using such features. smile
But if you are looking for a good pair of small monitors, this generation of KRK Rokits should be on your list, at least the wide frequency response should be quite a catch, at least in my opinion. smile
Posted By: Sweelinck Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/25/20 04:23 AM
Originally Posted by Sweelinck
JBL bass rolloff specs from the previous generation:

LSR305: ~50Hz@-3dB, ~45Hz@-6dB, ~41Hz@-10dB (marketing brochure says 43Hz)

LSR308: ~42Hz@-3dB, ~40Hz@-6dB, ~38Hz@-10dB (marketing brochure says 37Hz)

Because digital pianos don't need to go below 55Hz, the model with 5" driver will work if you don't want to deal with the larger enclosures of the 8" model, but the 8" driver will provide more flexibility for other content if you don't want to get a subwoofer. The 305P and 308P should have very similar specs.

If I didn't already have two pairs of LSR305's, and were purchasing now, I would look hard at the current generation KRK's for the room correction feature, but I have no idea how well the KRK implementation of that works. You can of course get an equalizer and computer + microphone + software and accomplish room correction equalization that way.

The JBL series 3 monitors use the same tweeter waveguide as the JBL Pro M2 mastering monitors:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/M2System--jbl-m2-reference-monitor-system

And JBL uses that feature to push marketing hoopla that you are getting technology from a $22K/pair speaker in a $250/pair speaker. While that is technically true, it also is marketing hype. The M2's are midfield speakers and the waveguide contributes to dispersion of the highs and mids produced by the tweeter. Incorporation of this makes the 3-series monitors not nearly useless for mixing (unless you have an acoustically treated space) because increased reflection off the walls with lead to some phase-shifting and blurring of the sound.

But I find this to be advantageous for instrument monitors. The speakers are not true nearfields, more on the boundary between nearfield and midfield monitors. Having a wider listening field makes them straightforward to place in your space. They will fill a small room adequately.
See correction in red.
Posted By: Sweelinck Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/25/20 04:49 AM
Originally Posted by David Lai
Yeah, to my ears the bedroom where I'm at needs no room correction, since I feel the sound is concentrated enough to satisfy me listening to everything from solo piano, to an orchestra, to a chamber groups, or a pipe organ. But the room correction is done through a smartphone app, which I believe might not be quite professional?
If it uses the microphone in the smartphone, that might be a problem, but I assume it may just use the phone app as a remote control device.

One other difference between the JBL and KRK monitors is KRK uses a front-firing port, and JBL a rear-firing port. The front-firing port can be disturbing if you are at fairly close listening distances due to front-facing air movement, but it also enables placing the monitor close to, or mounted on a wall. Thus, preferred monitor placement can be a significant factor.
Posted By: Ajax69 Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/25/20 08:06 AM
Wow! Thank's everyone!! I'm overwhelmed. This is on a level that makes the moon landing seem trivial.

I'll try to digest all this info and then see what's available on the market. One thing I know already is that I'm so impressed by the MP11SE that I'm prepared to stretch my speaker budget substantially.

Thank's again. You guys are awesome!!!
Posted By: ChrisGoesPiano Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/25/20 02:40 PM
MP11SE, 2x Roland CM30, Sony MDR-7506... The perfect combination.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/61zkxpbr62d2vgs/IMG_1974.jpeg?dl=0
Posted By: Doug M. Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/25/20 03:35 PM
Cheaper options: Focal Alpha 50's
Top end alternatives: Neumann KH 120A; APS Klassic
Posted By: dmd Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/25/20 11:42 PM
Originally Posted by Doug M.
Cheaper options: Focal Alpha 50's
Top end alternatives: Neumann KH 120A; APS Klassic

I am considering the purchase of the Roland CM30 cube.

As you see (my bottom line) I have Focal CMS 40s now which I have always had a sense of them being a bit too sterile but haven't found anything appreciably better without breaking the bank and that may not work either.

These CM30s seem to always get raving accolades.

Of course, I have heard that before about almost any monitor or speaker.

Would you say it would be worth trying the Roland CM30 ?
Posted By: Sweelinck Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/26/20 06:36 AM
The CM30 would be great for a portable rehearsal amp, personal floor monitor in stage in a band or ensemble, or as a keyboard amp for a small venue performance. It is not what I would personally choose for personal monitoring of a keyboard or digital piano in a personal studio. Your mileage may vary.

The mindset of stereo equipment that spending more fetches a better speaker breaks down when using studio monitors as piano monitors because good mixing monitors usually make poor piano monitors.
Posted By: ChrisGoesPiano Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/26/20 09:45 AM
Originally Posted by Sweelinck
The CM30 would be great for a portable rehearsal amp, personal floor monitor in stage in a band or ensemble, or as a keyboard amp for a small venue performance.

You need to get a pair of CM30's and use them in stereo link mode. That, or a Roland KC-220 which I have owned, and is a stereo keyboard amplifier.
It's all subjective, but I largely prefer the sound of a keyboard amp to studio monitors...
Posted By: AlphaBravoCharlie Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/26/20 10:00 AM
dmd, first, I suggest you accept the fact that average 100$ heaphones will give you better sound than a pair of studio monitors for ~1000$, unless you have acoustically adapted room. The adaptation or even placing speakers in the right place will give you much better results than spending more on speakers. Roland CM30s will give you louder but less quality sound with addition of hiss/noise. That doesn't really matter for playing live outside in noisy environement, but in home I believe keyboard AMP will be the reason for irritation.

Do you have hi-fi home system or you can borrow it from someone? If you are thinking about playing for other people at house, it might be more pleasant for them than studio monitors. Also hi-fi systems are usually less demanding when it comes to placement. My studio monitors sound good only when they are placed 1,5m from the wall and even then only me as a player have sweetspot for the sound.
Posted By: Doug M. Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/26/20 10:17 AM
Originally Posted by dmd
Originally Posted by Doug M.
Cheaper options: Focal Alpha 50's
Top end alternatives: Neumann KH 120A; APS Klassic

I am considering the purchase of the Roland CM30 cube.

As you see (my bottom line) I have Focal CMS 40s now which I have always had a sense of them being a bit too sterile but haven't found anything appreciably better without breaking the bank and that may not work either.

These CM30s seem to always get raving accolades.

Of course, I have heard that before about almost any monitor or speaker.

Would you say it would be worth trying the Roland CM30 ?

Monitors are designed to have a flat response. To get something suitable for digital pianos, a good tip is to get a bunch of options, ask music stores to bring them in, and test them in store. I would think most piano stores would not be willing to bring half a dozen things, but might agree to two items.

Good monitors are probably close to £1000 for a pair. I think the Focal Alpha 50 s are great value for money and are tested on pianos.

Without testing on a digital, every studio monitor is a risk (or indeed any solution) including these. If you can find someone who has used these with a digital piano, they would be the best people to advise you.
Posted By: Ajax69 Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/26/20 10:58 AM
Originally Posted by ChrisGoesPiano
Originally Posted by Sweelinck
The CM30 would be great for a portable rehearsal amp, personal floor monitor in stage in a band or ensemble, or as a keyboard amp for a small venue performance.

You need to get a pair of CM30's and use them in stereo link mode. That, or a Roland KC-220 which I have owned, and is a stereo keyboard amplifier.
It's all subjective, but I largely prefer the sound of a keyboard amp to studio monitors...

I'm interested. Have thought about the KC-220. Think it looks nice. But from my guitar era I'm a bit sceptic about small amps. They tend to have a rather "boxy" sound. And as for the 220, do the two 6.5" woofers give enough bass?
Posted By: dmd Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/26/20 11:28 AM
Originally Posted by AlphaBravoCharlie
Do you have hi-fi home system or you can borrow it from someone? If you are thinking about playing for other people at house, it might be more pleasant for them than studio monitors. Also hi-fi systems are usually less demanding when it comes to placement.

The term "hi-fi home system" carries a wide range of meanings.

Can you narrow that a bit ? Any specific examples ?
Posted By: Sweelinck Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/26/20 07:03 PM
PA speakers are the antithesis of nearfield studio monitors. The intended wide dispersion of PA speakers will create all manner of phase distortion in a small space from reflections off walls, floor, and ceiling. It would be very difficult to treat the space acoustically to cut reflections from such omni-directional sound projection. You virtually would need an anechoic chamber. The dispersion provides a wide field of listening, which is an advantage if you don't wish to be close to the monitors.
Posted By: dng Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/27/20 04:35 AM
Giu you’re not accepting private messages but do you only use the 8330s for piano, or is it great because you can use it for other audio? Willing to spend the money to get better sound but wondering if it is would be for me if I’m not going to be using it for anything else.
Posted By: ChrisGoesPiano Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/27/20 09:07 PM
Originally Posted by AlphaBravoCharlie
Roland CM30s will give you louder but less quality sound with addition of hiss/noise. That doesn't really matter for playing live outside in noisy environement, but in home I believe keyboard AMP will be the reason for irritation.

The CM30s don't produce hiss or noise. Well, they do, when you press your ear against the speaker grille. But that was the same with the iLoud Micro Monitors. And same with the KC-220... In any case, there's no hiss I can hear when sitting normally at the piano...

Originally Posted by Ajax69
I'm interested. Have thought about the KC-220. Think it looks nice. But from my guitar era I'm a bit sceptic about small amps. They tend to have a rather "boxy" sound. And as for the 220, do the two 6.5" woofers give enough bass?

The KC220 sounds great with a digital piano or keyboard. I found it more than powerful enough for my use case, which is playing in a large living room. As for the bass, you can put it on the floor and use the built-in stand to tilt the amp up to direct the sound upwards. You can also buy the optional stand (quite pricey) which will put it at ear level but I never felt the need for that, plus it supposedly reduces the bass when used like that...

I know that almost anyone will recommend studio monitors and I assume that's because most people prefer the flat sound from that type of speakers. I don't, I prefer a more 'natural' sound, maybe less perfect to audiophiles ears, but that's just me. Your mileage (and anyone else's) may, and probably will, vary.
Posted By: vidio Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/27/20 09:13 PM
Here's another option. Although I have studio monitors for mixing when I play for practice or enjoyment I use a pair of Klipsch 51PM along with the R 120SW subwoofer. Powered "bookshelf" speakers that can accept USB in from your computer for VSTs or audio in directly from the MP11. Or you can even use bluetooth.

The sound is really great. You don't absolutely need the sub but it takes the load off the main speakers so the whole things sounds a little better with the sub.

They often offer significant discounts of up to 50% and they look really cool with the spun copper woofers. And of course you can use them for computer speakers as well.
Posted By: Sweelinck Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/27/20 09:47 PM
The purpose of having as flat a response as possible is not an audio preference. When playing a piano, a melody is shaped with dynamics usung feedback from the sound, practicing it until it sounds as desired. If the speakers introduce a non-linearity, then when you record the piano, you will shape a melody per what you hear from the monitors but the monitors are not in the audio path to the recorder.

There are of course other issues-- the recording will be played back with speakers with their own non-linearities, and acoustic treatments to the space are also needed to preserve a flat response. But speaker non-linearity introduces another variable.

And you cannot compensate when playing an organ. I've experienced uneven sound volume somewhere on the keyboard with organs with any PA or keyboard amp I've used that was $500 or less. I have not used the CM30 however.

Here is some info about the LSR308 internals from a previous PW posting. The video is a bit belabored with the process of debugging a fault. But it goes through the components, and also discusses where manufacturing cost-cutting in the layout is observable.

http://forums.pianoworld.com/ubbthr...-monitor-speaker-repair.html#Post3005694

One thing I have always appreciated about JBL Pro is their pro-level support. One of the LSR305 monitors I have was producing a buzzing sound and shutting itself down about 45 days out of the box. It turned out the problem was a faulty cable and not the monitor. But when I spoke to JBL they said I could take it to a local repair shop that is factory authorized, and they would replace any faulty component under warranty. There was no need to ship it to them.

I have given up expecting support from Roland. It is difficult to speak to a tech support human, and, unless they reversed course, I believe that they now have an official policy that the Roland web site is the only form of support for a product that has been discontinued. In my experience, JBL has provided better support for a $125 monitor than Roland provided for keyboards I have owned. Yamaha and Kawai support is also good.
Posted By: Sweelinck Re: Good speakers for MP11SE? - 09/27/20 10:07 PM
The original posting mentioned the Adam T8V under consideration. This has one of the ribbon tweeters Adam uses. As a result, I think this also is likely to have adequate dispersion for a wide enough sweet spot for piano monitoring, though I've not used this monitor.
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