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Posted By: Javaslinger Casio PX-130 Upgrade? - 09/18/20 01:20 AM
Looking at upgrading from a used Casio Px-130 and curios what is a worth upgrade and not just the same class - just newer.

Looking at a Kaiwa ES110, KDP-110 or the new ES-520 (that nothing much is known about).

I'm a beginner just learning, but I'm hooked.
Posted By: RodrigoPon Re: Casio PX-130 Upgrade? - 09/18/20 02:41 AM
Absolutely worth it.

I upgraded from a Casio px 130 to a Kawai ES110 a while ago: better sound with a lot longer decay times and higher dynamic range, better action, better pedaling (with half pedaling capabilities), string resonance simulation, absence of dampers in high register... (if I continue thinking I'm sure I find other adventaages).

I think it's 200% worth it. Totally different and much more real piano like experience with the ES110.
Posted By: jeffcat Re: Casio PX-130 Upgrade? - 09/18/20 04:46 AM
I wouldn't go from Px130 to anything other than an ES8 and above. Honestly I don't even think the ES8 is that great a deal.

The actions are all kinda Meh until you get to Grand Feel.
Posted By: EVC2017 Re: Casio PX-130 Upgrade? - 09/18/20 09:33 AM
I beg to differ as eloquently. I have gone from a PX350 to an ES8 and the difference was huge in all accounts (sound/touch/keybed quality/build quality). Despite later on I developing a dislike for it due to key clicks and some other issues, I have to admit I still consider it a huge step up form PX350. That said, nowadays I would look at other brands too, especially Yamaha, not discarding higher end Casios.

Originally Posted by jeffcat
I wouldn't go from Px130 to anything other than an ES8 and above. Honestly I don't even think the ES8 is that great a deal.

The actions are all kinda Meh until you get to Grand Feel.
Posted By: JoeT Re: Casio PX-130 Upgrade? - 09/18/20 09:45 AM
Casio is not in the same ballpark as other manufacturers, so going to Kawai is always an upgrade.
Posted By: jeffcat Re: Casio PX-130 Upgrade? - 09/18/20 11:34 AM
Casio has the small pivot, that's its only shortcoming.

If it had a bigger pivot, there'd be pretty much nothing to complain about.
Posted By: EVC2017 Re: Casio PX-130 Upgrade? - 09/18/20 08:03 PM
Originally Posted by EVC2017
I beg to differ as eloquently. I have gone from a PX350 to an ES8 and the difference was huge in all accounts (sound/touch/keybed quality/build quality). Despite later on I developing a dislike for it due to key clicks and some other issues, I have to admit I still consider it a huge step up form PX350. That said, nowadays I would look at other brands too, especially Yamaha, not discarding higher end Casios.

Originally Posted by jeffcat
I wouldn't go from Px130 to anything other than an ES8 and above. Honestly I don't even think the ES8 is that great a deal.

The actions are all kinda Meh until you get to Grand Feel.

Jeffcat, my apologies, I misread your post, body was moving, brain was not entirely woken up yet. So, I agree with you instead of differing.
Posted By: Muskellunge Re: Casio PX-130 Upgrade? - 09/18/20 11:32 PM
Originally Posted by jeffcat
Casio has the small pivot, that's its only shortcoming.

If it had a bigger pivot, there'd be pretty much nothing to complain about.

I own a Casio PX870 and I agree 100% with Jeffcat.

Muskie
Posted By: Abdol Re: Casio PX-130 Upgrade? - 09/18/20 11:47 PM
Originally Posted by Javaslinger
Looking at upgrading from a used Casio Px-130 and curios what is a worth upgrade and not just the same class - just newer.

Looking at a Kaiwa ES110, KDP-110 or the new ES-520 (that nothing much is known about).

I'm a beginner just learning, but I'm hooked.

It isn't worth it. Why do you want to upgrade? You have few hundred bucks lying around that you don't know what to do with it?

If you are serious about learning how to play, improvising and jamming with friends, then buy somthing that has some room for you to grow! not something in the same department.

Plan for your goal and your money wise.
Posted By: Javaslinger Re: Casio PX-130 Upgrade? - 09/19/20 03:30 AM
Everyone is such buzzkill.. wink Serious, when should I upgrade? When I've got $2K+ lying around? I can score a used KDP-110 and sell my PX130 to get a upgrade for a net around $700. Maybe not massive upgrades, but surely across the board improvements in sound, action, speakers, and most obviously the build of the piano. And it's 10 years newer... Maybe I've made up my mind, but I'm always surprised there isn't more enthusiasm for upgrading on these forums.
Posted By: RodrigoPon Re: Casio PX-130 Upgrade? - 09/19/20 05:26 AM
Originally Posted by Javaslinger
Everyone is such buzzkill.. wink Serious, when should I upgrade? When I've got $2K+ lying around? I can score a used KDP-110 and sell my PX130 to get a upgrade for a net around $700. Maybe not massive upgrades, but surely across the board improvements in sound, action, speakers, and most obviously the build of the piano. And it's 10 years newer... Maybe I've made up my mind, but I'm always surprised there isn't more enthusiasm for upgrading on these forums.

Well I wasn't :P.

I'm not sure people are aware how old the px130 is. It's action is 3 generations old, as well as its sound engine. It's a digital piano from 2010.

I know the es110 isn't such a big upgrade, but I made this exact upgrade and I'd do it again. It's just a lot better overall and you maintain the great portability feature, if that matters to you (it mattered to me, the es8 is already too heavy). If portability doesn't matter the KDP110 would be good too, it's basically a console version of the es110.
Posted By: Javaslinger Re: Casio PX-130 Upgrade? - 09/21/20 01:39 AM
Well I upgraded from the 10 year old Casio Privia PX130 to the Kaiwa KDP-110. Absolutely in love. Would it be worth it at $1200? Maybe not, but I'd still do it. But I got a great deal barely used, so its no question. The action and sound engine are both BIG steps up. And the 40W speakers are glorious going from 2x8W. The build quality is also night and day.
Posted By: anotherscott Re: Casio PX-130 Upgrade? - 09/21/20 02:11 AM
Originally Posted by Muskellunge
Originally Posted by jeffcat
Casio has the small pivot, that's its only shortcoming.

If it had a bigger pivot, there'd be pretty much nothing to complain about.

I own a Casio PX870 and I agree 100% with Jeffcat.
I'll disgaree. The PX-130 action was not as good as your PX870 or other more modern Casios. In fact, to me, the PX-130/PX-330 action was one of the least enjoyable hammer actions of the past 20 years, it felt "sloppy." I personally found it to be a step backwards from the actions Casio used on the older PX-100/PX-300 or PX-110/PX-310, which I liked. As hammer actions go, any Kawai, any later generation Casio (and at least some of the older ones as well), any Yamaha, any Korg RH3 model, would all be noticeably better, IMO. Yes, this is subjective, but to me, upgrading would be very worthwhile.
Posted By: jeffcat Re: Casio PX-130 Upgrade? - 09/21/20 02:14 AM
Originally Posted by Javaslinger
Everyone is such buzzkill.. wink Serious, when should I upgrade? When I've got $2K+ lying around? I can score a used KDP-110 and sell my PX130 to get a upgrade for a net around $700. Maybe not massive upgrades, but surely across the board improvements in sound, action, speakers, and most obviously the build of the piano. And it's 10 years newer... Maybe I've made up my mind, but I'm always surprised there isn't more enthusiasm for upgrading on these forums.

Yes, I would highly recommend upgrading when you have $3K+ lying around. $2K is just meh.. This forum is VERY enthusiastic about upgrading.

However, DP is not like an iphone. There isn't really that much improvement over the years, and they don't put the best stuff in the <$1500 models. Again, going to an ES8, somewhat worth it. Less than that, meh..
Posted By: Muskellunge Re: Casio PX-130 Upgrade? - 09/22/20 12:46 AM
Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by Muskellunge
Originally Posted by jeffcat
Casio has the small pivot, that's its only shortcoming.

If it had a bigger pivot, there'd be pretty much nothing to complain about.

I own a Casio PX870 and I agree 100% with Jeffcat.
I'll disgaree. The PX-130 action was not as good as your PX870

I don’t doubt that. I’m just saying the short pivot length on the 870 is it’s only downfall. It sounds very good. I really like the key texture. Nice compact design. But... the short pivot length is an issue for me. I don’t like it.
Muskie
Posted By: Charles Cohen Re: Casio PX-130 Upgrade? - 09/22/20 04:04 AM
FWIW --

The one thing that you can't change, on a DP, is the action.

You can run VST's, you can add outboard amps and speakers. But you can't change the action.

So if you want to upgrade, it's ought to be the action that sets the "tier" of what you buy.

. . . On that basis, getting an "entry-level" DP isn't a good decision -- even if it's a new model.

A used Yamaha P-515, or ES-8, or FP-90, might be your best trade-off between "action quality" and $. Any of those should make you say:

. . . "Oh -- _this_ is what ten years of progress brought !"

An alternative is to bite the VST bullet, and get a Kawai VPC-1 (just action, no built-in sounds). You'll be tied to a computer, and need outboard speakers or headphones, and I wouldn't trust it for gigging. But if you have a computer already, it's not a crazy thing to do.
Posted By: JoeT Re: Casio PX-130 Upgrade? - 09/22/20 06:57 AM
"Upgrade" means getting an acoustic piano. Or go the Avant Grand or Novus route.

Replacing one folded action with another is not an upgrade, it's a sidegrade.
Posted By: clothearednincompo Re: Casio PX-130 Upgrade? - 09/22/20 07:27 AM
Originally Posted by JoeT
Replacing one folded action with another is not an upgrade, it's a sidegrade.

Then there would be no difference between Roland PHA50, Yamaha NWX, Kawai RHIII and whatever they have inside those Gear4Music pianos.

So, a 300€ Gear4Music piano should be the ideal budget controller for VSTis unless a "non-folded" action is a must.

And yet people feel differences between the various folded actions...

Some are even measurable with a ruler or a set of weights.
Posted By: camperbc Re: Casio PX-130 Upgrade? - 09/22/20 08:20 AM
Originally Posted by JoeT
Casio is not in the same ballpark as other manufacturers, so going to Kawai is always an upgrade.
You cannot be serious.
Posted By: JoeT Re: Casio PX-130 Upgrade? - 09/22/20 08:35 AM
Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
Then there would be no difference between Roland PHA50, Yamaha NWX, Kawai RHIII and whatever they have inside those Gear4Music pianos.

I didn't say there isn't any difference between folded actions. But for me an "upgrade" means actually going a step up. Getting out of watches, calculators and toy pianos is an upgrade, but replacing a less expensive folded action with a more expensive one isn't.

It's the same for acoustic (and hybrid) instruments: Replacing less expensive upright piano with a more expensive one is a sidegrade. Replacing an upright with a grand is an upgrade.
Posted By: camperbc Re: Casio PX-130 Upgrade? - 09/22/20 08:40 AM
Originally Posted by Muskellunge
Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by Muskellunge
Originally Posted by jeffcat
Casio has the small pivot, that's its only shortcoming.

If it had a bigger pivot, there'd be pretty much nothing to complain about.

I own a Casio PX870 and I agree 100% with Jeffcat.
I'll disgaree. The PX-130 action was not as good as your PX870

I don’t doubt that. I’m just saying the short pivot length on the 870 is it’s only downfall. It sounds very good. I really like the key texture. Nice compact design. But... the short pivot length is an issue for me. I don’t like it.
Muskie
I have no issue with the pivot length of my PX-870. It doesn't affect my playing in the least, even though I suffer from advanced arthritis in my fingers, as well as permanent nerve damage to both hands. (from a serious injury years ago)

Truth be told, I cannot think of anything negative to say about this instrument.
Posted By: camperbc Re: Casio PX-130 Upgrade? - 09/22/20 08:43 AM
Originally Posted by JoeT
"Upgrade" means getting an acoustic piano. Or go the Avant Grand or Novus route.

Replacing one folded action with another is not an upgrade, it's a sidegrade.
Once again, you can't be serious!
Posted By: Marchelune Re: Casio PX-130 Upgrade? - 09/22/20 09:38 AM
Originally Posted by JoeT
Replacing one folded action with another is not an upgrade, it's a sidegrade.

Bold but I agree to some extent.
I have an old Roland FP-4 that I want to upgrade from and got excited to checkout the Kawai CA79: the action does feel better (+quality of the whole digital piano) but I was disappointed that it feels still very much like a digital piano action. So to me the 3k€ upgrade wasn't worth it.

It's a personal feeling, that's why I am personally more excited about hybrids, which are extremely expensive but there I do feel the upgrade on the action (I am still battling between real acoustic or a hybrid though).

Originally Posted by Javaslinger
I'm a beginner just learning, but I'm hooked.

That is a factor to take into account, perhaps after some time of practicing you'll get a better sense of what you want/like for a piano action 🙂.
Posted By: JoeT Re: Casio PX-130 Upgrade? - 09/22/20 10:32 AM
Originally Posted by Marchelune
Originally Posted by JoeT
Replacing one folded action with another is not an upgrade, it's a sidegrade.

Bold but I agree to some extent.
I have an old Roland FP-4 that I want to upgrade from and got excited to checkout the Kawai CA79: the action does feel better (+quality of the whole digital piano) but I was disappointed that it feels still very much like a digital piano action. So to me the 3k€ upgrade wasn't worth it.

Exactly. The pivot might be longer, there might be some wood built into it somewhere, and the build quality might feel notch higher, but in the end, it's just another folded hammer action with all its straining disadvantages, including fake escapement and no damper weights.

Quote
It's a personal feeling, that's why I am personally more excited about hybrids, which are extremely expensive but there I do feel the upgrade on the action (I am still battling between real acoustic or a hybrid though).

An acoustic piano with a silent option is equivalent to a hybrid digital piano. That's the route most piano beginners taking classical lessons actually go.
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