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Posted By: 9190 Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 09:12 AM
I created a new separate topic, as it looks like this series is officially presented.



CLP-700 lineup:

CLP-785 | CLP-775 | CLP-745 | CLP-735 || CLP-795GP | CLP-765GP
Oh, there's actually a whole new action. The lowest end models have "GrandTouch-S™ keyboard" whatever that means. But it's no more a GH or NW variant. (What comes to the naming convention. I haven't seen any photos or drawings of it.)
Posted By: 9190 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 09:25 AM
They described it a bit in the Features section.
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 09:37 AM
There's something new this time:

Quote
Grand Expression Modeling
The interaction and interplay of the hammers, dampers, and strings inside a grand piano respond to the subtlest nuances of the pianist’s touch, creating a limitless range of tonal expression. Touch refers to the pianist’s control, not only of intensity (softness/loudness) in playing and releasing the keys, but also of the speed and depth with which the keys are pressed. The Grand Expression Modeling introduced in the CLP-700 Series translates the widely varied input from the pianist’s fingers into the same limitless tonal variation of a grand piano.

This makes it possible to vary the output by playing the keys to different depths and with different speeds, even when using techniques such as trills or legato or emphasizing the melody over the accompaniment. Grand Expression Modeling excels at faithfully reproducing the output expected of these techniques in many well-known songs. In Debussy’s “Clair de Lune,” a loose touch creates the faint tone that makes the melody stand out more crisply. In Liszt’s “Un Sospiro,” the accompanying arpeggios accent the melody without overwhelming it, and varied expression of the melody gives it the same quality as vocals. In the last of the Chopin nocturnes, trills, legato, and other delicate techniques where fingers seem to float over the keys deliver the airy, smooth tonal expression required. Playing such pieces on a highly expressive piano helps the pianist learn various techniques and experience the same joy of expression as a painter, but through sound.

[Linked Image]

I'm trying to understand it. To me it sounds like they may have recreated the possibility of playing leggiero and similar other techniques. We've discussed how on acoustic pianos you can only slightly tap the keys without pressing them fully and that would still be able to throw the hammer to play against the strings. However on digital pianos the hammers are not easily thrown separately from the keys and even if they are, they need to overcome escapement notches first, then press mechanically the three sensors and that reduces their speed, thus lowering the desired velocity. On most typical digital pianos you simply can't play leggiero consistently. Furthermore, when playing leggiero without damper pedal, the hammer will strike the string that's still damped and that will create a very soft and damped sound and I've seen world famous pianists using this technique for an original effect. Wondering whether Yamaha tried to replicate behavior like this and other similar effects of acoustic pianos. Maybe they have the triple sensors more distanced than each other, or maybe they have other type of sensors, or maybe it's just some software modeling that tries to predict this? Maybe also special sampling to allow for various sound effects to be utilized (e.g. a dull faint notes when playing leggiero without the damper pedal?). Certainly sounds interesting.
Posted By: EssBrace Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 09:49 AM
Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
Oh, there's actually a whole new action. The lowest end models have "GrandTouch-S™ keyboard" whatever that means.....

GrandTouch-S

Just a thought!
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 09:53 AM
To elaborate more on my previous post, Yamaha also mention trills when talking about the Grand Expression Modeling. I've commented how on digital piano actions trills tend to uncontrollably increase in volume due to the "punching bag" effect of the hammers not being stopped by a backcheck (as in acoustic piano actions) but simply rebounding between the cushioning and the key. Maybe Yamaha also introduced software modeling that would detect this behavior and just limit the velocities of the repeated notes to not reflect the actual hammer speed but follow more realistic and consistent velocity?
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 10:07 AM
Finally.

- New Action + Bosendorfer!
Yeah

-No upright samples, from what I read.
😑

I didn't like what I heard in the promo video, let see more videos/review
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 10:25 AM
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Maybe...
Originally Posted by CyberGene
maybe...
Originally Posted by CyberGene
maybe...
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Maybe...
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Maybe...



Scrub to 3:25 if you're impatient. wink
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 10:31 AM
🎶🎹🎵

James, did I sense a bit of nervousness in you related to the new announcement by Yamaha? Did they beat you to an announcement you are gonna make soon too? wink A VPC-2 maybe?
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 10:37 AM
Originally Posted by CyberGene
James, did I sense a bit of nervousness in you related to the new announcement by Yamaha? Did they beat you to an announcement you are gonna make soon too? wink A VPC-2 maybe?

Kawai announced the Concert Artist CAx9 models earlier in the year, however we do have some other new instruments coming soon (that's not relevant to this thread though...).

Kind regards,
James
x
Originally Posted by Otavio
No upright samples, from what I read. 😑

The User's Manual reveals:
Quote
Upright Piano - The sound sampled from an upright piano, the Yamaha SU7. Enjoy the unique tonal character and a lighter, more casual feel.

It's in the whole 700 range. The 785/795GP do have a few exclusive sounds that are not in the other models such as...

Quote
Studio Grand - The sound of Yamaha’s C7 grand piano, which is often used in recording studios. Its
bright and clear sound is good for popular styles.

...and two of the "historical piano" presets amongs others.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 10:50 AM
James, please wink if it’s an NV-20!

I’m desperate for something real, and bored with Yamaha’s so-called new offerings:

GrandTurd-S (the S stands for sh*t!).
Posted By: QuasiUnaFantasia Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 10:52 AM
Not that I think Kawai-winks are uninteresting, but should this thread not focus on the Yamaha 700 series ..?
Posted By: 9190 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 10:52 AM
Touch sensor control panel (CLP-775 and CLP-785)
"The touch panel only displays text when it is on — when the panel is off, it has the smooth finish of a keyblock".
[Linked Image]

Looks good. I wonder if this works while playing, or only when instrument is turned off. If the latter, then it makes little sense, since the keyboard is already closed by a lid. For me, the question is purely for the sake of interest, since anyway I'm looking at the CLP-745's price category. And I don't like upright designs (mainly for practical reasons).
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 10:53 AM
No!

Focus needs to be earned, and Yamaha has not earned it with all their vague gibberish! cry
Posted By: QuasiUnaFantasia Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 11:01 AM
Originally Posted by Pete14
No!

Focus needs to be earned, and Yamaha has not earned it with all their vague gibberish! cry

They are vague, and it is gibberish. But isn't that what marketing is all about? smile
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 11:01 AM
blush
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 11:21 AM
Originally Posted by 9190
Looks good. I wonder if this works while playing, or only when instrument is turned off.

Good question.

It appears that the CLP-700 models still use the same blue 128x64 pixel LCD as the previous generation. I don't know if it's possible for the backlight of these displays to be turned-off/on in software.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 11:24 AM
Such a tough competition between piano manufacturers over who will manage first to achieve this next frontier in cutting edge software and hardware integration of turning off the display backlight 🤣 James, I missed this but did Kawai win with the latest CA-series? The backlight can now be switched off, right?
Posted By: 9190 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 11:29 AM
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by 9190
Looks good. I wonder if this works while playing, or only when instrument is turned off.

Good question.

It appears that the CLP-700 models still use the same blue 128x64 pixel LCD as the previous generation. I don't know if it's possible for the backlight of these displays to be turned-off/on in software.


Originally Posted by Rhinegold Publishing
Control panel illumination turns off automatically after a few seconds, giving these models the classic appearance of an acoustic instrument.

From here:
Yamaha launches Clavinova CLP-700 digital piano series
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 11:52 AM
Analysis is worthwhile ... when starting with good data.

But to perform analysis on bullcrudish marketing banter and press release trash is like trying to mine gold in a septic tank.
Originally Posted by CyberGene
There's something new this time:

[quote]Grand Expression Modeling ... <2020-revision of seller's same-old banter> ...

I'm trying to understand it. To me it sounds like they may have recreated the possibility of playing leggiero and similar other techniques. We've discussed ...

The seller's quoted material is crap. It's like a Jedi mind trick. The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.

Resist! Either put fingers on their keyboard. Or, lacking that ... just ignore.
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 12:07 PM
It's 2020 and we're still getting the kind of LCD screen from the 90s...
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 12:10 PM
Well, maybe I exhibited wishful thinking on my side. But the Yamaha commercial BS is suspiciously similar to what I have tried to guess. And if theoretically they implemented what I've been complaining about ('till I'm blue in the mouth) about the lack of escapement, etc., they might have actually worked around the problem by providing better software detection which would at least partially solve through a software the inherent hardware problem of digital piano actions lacking escapement. That would be good news for digital piano owners smile Or just BS.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 12:31 PM
I vote for BS!

And about the interface, no, it’s not a touch screen, but rather a touch-sensitive one with a fixed template! What a marvel of technology.........Not!

I’m suing Yamaha! Who’s with me? grin
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 12:52 PM
I was already going to sue Yamaha for that horrible control panel on the AvantGrand series before this laugh
Posted By: Tyr Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 12:59 PM
404 Excitement not found. It still sounds like the same Sampling from the older models. I doubt the GrandTouch(S) has been improved alot. Feels like another cheap shot by Yamaha to sell the same Crap over and over.
Posted By: terminaldegree Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 01:10 PM
Originally Posted by Tyr
404 Excitement not found.

May I have your permission to borrow that and use with impunity? It’s brilliant!
Originally Posted by Tyr
It still sounds like the same Sampling from the older models.

The funny thing about "new samples" is that the pianos they sample haven't changed.

So what has?

Yamaha has been one of the leading manufacturers of professional audio gear for several decades already, so are they still only learning how to record a piano?

Have the previous samples been substandard somehow?

Did they use the wrong type of microphones in the wrong positions?

What new did they learn since the previous sampling session?

Are they admitting that the older Clavinovas are flawed?

😉

(Of course the binaural Bösendorfer is actually a new thing.)
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 01:20 PM
A new sampling will be needed if they came up with multichannel speakers or something that required special sampling. For instance, the 4-channel sampling in the N1X is made so that it suits the speaker system of the N1X. When mixed down to stereo it is not very convincing. Which is also why through headphones only the CFX Binaural is good whereas the Bosendorfer and CFX stereo-mixdown versions are rather bland.
Posted By: Tyr Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 01:25 PM
Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Originally Posted by Tyr
404 Excitement not found.

May I have your permission to borrow that and use with impunity? It’s brilliant!

Sure. Have fun. wink
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 01:27 PM
Good one.
Originally Posted by Tyr
404 Excitement not found.
Feels like another cheap shot by Yamaha to sell the same crap over and over.
Indeed ... if you read the ad-copy from thirty years ago you see the same claims. The same BS.
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 03:04 PM
Originally Posted by Beowulf
It's 2020 and we're still getting the kind of LCD screen from the 90s...

This LCD has appeared 6 years ago (CLP5xx). It was a revolution : the CLP4xx (Excepted the 480) had a 3 digits LED display... then don’t be impatient !
Posted By: EssBrace Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 03:05 PM
Sweet Jesus, the negativity, from people who haven't seen one, heard one or played one is just overwhelming. The 600 series Clavinova was entirely competitive with the best of whatever else was available at the same price points - personal taste dictates choices between Yamaha, Roland and Kawai for home console pianos.

Now comes the 700 series with certain enhancements/changes - the real world effects of which we don't yet know. So give it a break guys. This forum is getting very boring. Either that or my tolerance for it all seems to have deserted me. Speculating is fine...it's all we can do anyway...but to just indiscriminately plunge the knife in is not helpful to anyone.
Posted By: mwf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 03:13 PM
Why is everyone saying its a new action... Its the same overly heavy grandtouch, yamaha have ignored all feedback as predicted, they lost a loyal customer in me, I'll be opting for kawai now.
The "GrandTouch-S" in the lower end models is new.

But does the "S" mean short or stiff?

Maybe it's short AND stiff. 😄

But seriously, we don't really know much yet -- like said above -- so let's wait and see.

There's quite much new actually at least at the specification and "marketing jargon" level.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 03:24 PM
...maybe it’s short AND stiff AND sh*t!

Okay, now we’ve really upset EssBrace. wink
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 03:26 PM
Call me a hopeless optimist but I believe in that Grand Expression Modeling and I think they implemented it through changes in sensor design and/or positioning and/or scanning, etc. And to allow for that, they made changes to the existing action which were also translated into the lower end models, hence the GrandTouch-S which probably omits mechanical luxuries (from the specs it seems the GrandTouch-S doesn't contain wood, for instance) but retains the realistic behavior. But I'm a Yamaha guy now, so I'm mild-mannered with them wink Let's see.
Posted By: jeffcat Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 03:28 PM
I just want to know 1 thing.

HOW BIG are these new Touch-S pivots ? Ya got 1 chance to wow the crowd. Don't blow it yamaha.
Posted By: QuasiUnaFantasia Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 03:31 PM
I think the "S" in "GrandTouch-S" stands for "sissy". Only the more expensive models require a real man's strength* to depress the keys.

*Or the use of additional tools, like hammers, clubs, etc.
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 03:35 PM
I also think the marketing department is unfairly criticized.

Imagine just for a moment that I'm right with my theory about the leggiero stuff, the trills and the "punching bag" effect, etc. How many of you actually got what I describe, the mumbo-jumbo, what the problem is, what the solution is and why that is important? smile I know for sure that only a bunch of regulars here know what I'm talking about. So, again, imagine the engineers at Yamaha came up with these solutions. And that needs to be marketed. Do you believe there's any possible way of communicating that to the regular piano buyer without confusing them and at the same time being clear, concise and deep enough to give a few nerds on an Internet forum all the needed information about how they implemented something very special? No need for this negativity indeed.
Posted By: 9190 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 03:42 PM
Originally Posted by CyberGene
the GrandTouch-S which probably omits mechanical luxuries (from the specs it seems the GrandTouch-S doesn't contain wood, for instance)

Wood is mentioned in description:

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 03:46 PM
Originally Posted by Tyr
404 Excitement not found.

Most improvements in the CLP series are incremental. Then I didn’t expect to be so much excited. We had some important steps (get rid of AWM, wooden keyboard, LCD display instead of 3 digits LED), be can’t expect to have something important every 3 years and surely not in every domains at the same time.

Low budgets will be interested by the GH3X/GrandTouch-S substitution, higher budgets by the transducers, we also have binaural Bösendorfer... then several little evolutions which will not make many people to sell their CLP6xx to upgrade their piano, but will be appreciated by new buyers.
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 03:47 PM
On the comparison spec section the 735 is the only one listed without having wood in the key description which led me think this is for all the S-keys. But probably it’s not that. Or they can make two variants - with wood or with plastic core.
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 03:56 PM
Originally Posted by CyberGene
On the comparison spec section the 735 is the only one listed without having wood in the key description which led me think this is for all the S-keys. But probably it’s not that. Or they can make two variants - with wood or with plastic core.

Two variants with the same name would be weird, be the description looks like it this the case.

We already had some variant of the GH keyboard (linear graded hammer, and the “original” one)
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 04:09 PM
Did anyone figure out what the transducers are doing?
On the original AG transducers are used for key vibration (TRS).
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 04:14 PM
Transducers are introduced in the speaker line of the specs. I would interpret something like the CA99, but we can be surprised that Yamaha doesn’t tell a lot of thing about them.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 04:18 PM
Surely, there is no soundboard needin’ some vibratin’, or is there?
Or could there be some sort of ‘mini-board’ like the one used on the N3/X?
Posted By: kpuk Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 04:26 PM
Good to see some more objective comments instead of all the negativity which is simply paralysis by analysis.
Prices released in the UK seem a little high compared to the competition, but no doubt discounts will emerge in a few months.
For those who are not enamoured by the ‘antique’ control panel, just get the Smart Pianist app. It provides a brilliant interface with the piano, so thumbs up to Yamaha. All the other main manufacturers have wisely followed Yamaha’s lead!!
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 04:29 PM
Just browsed through the product info again and realised there's 'Grand Expression Modeling' and 'Grand Acoustic Imaging'. These are something new right?
Posted By: hammerklavierx Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 05:15 PM
I think Grandtouch-S is just the same with NWX but with offset pivot points for the black keys. I'm excited to see how the Grand Expression Modeling works. If it does well, it would greatly benefit players that work with the different nuances in touch and sound.
Posted By: hammerklavierx Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 05:34 PM
From what I've been taught, there are four extremes on how you touch a keyboard: Fast-Light, Fast-Heavy, Slow-Light, Slow-heavy. And then there are infinite possibilities within, much like Yamaha's visual graph. I don't know how current keyboard sensor works but it sounds like they only read 2 extremes of touches. Whether it's fast, slow, light or heavy, it's never the combination of 2. This Grand Expression Modeling could be a game changer if it really works.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 05:46 PM
Is the Grand Expression Modeling anything like the Grand Prix Modeling?
If so, I’m gonna have to send it back!
Posted By: EPW Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 06:00 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
Is the Grand Expression Modeling anything like the Grand Prix Modeling?
If so, I’m gonna have to send it back!

Which Scale Model size of Grand Prix are you talking about. I heard through the grape-vine the 1/18 scale models don't have this feature but the 1/12 scale models do. Now you got me worried Pete LOL
Posted By: HarmonicSimon Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 06:06 PM
Thanks for the info guys.

I was hoping for a lighter key action in the 775 as when I tried the 675 it was too stiff for me.
However, taken from Bonners site I did read this though:

"Yamaha 'GrandTouch' keyboard first appeared on the older generation CLP675 and CLP685 models. The manufacturer has listened to feedback from consumers and musicians and made some modifications to further improve the piano-like experience of this wonderful keyboard."

https://www.bonnersmusic.co.uk/yamaha-clp775wa-clavinova-digital-piano-white-ash.ir
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 06:24 PM
It's not "paralysis by analysis". It's "same old same old" and "deja vu all over again".
Originally Posted by kpuk
Good to see some more objective comments instead of all the negativity which is simply paralysis by analysis.
The sun rose today. In the east. It was yellow. I don't expect it will be any different tomorrow, right?

Substitute "piano business" for "sun" ... and it's all the same. Time after time. Not much changes.

Ho hum. Yawn. 404.
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 06:51 PM
I think the « déjà vu » syndrome is common to all digital piano brands excepted when a new kind of Series appear (Casio GP, Yamaha CSP...) this is not common. I don’t understand why there is such a thread about Yamaha and not Roland, Kawai or others. As I have said many times, digital piano progress is quite slow. But there is a steady progress : my CLP150 from 2002 is very inferior than today’s pianos, in every aspect. All the progresses (keyboard, tone generator, display, USB drive support, WAV recording...) has been introduced at different time. Now we have a set of progress and I don’t think they are so inferior than those of the previous years. Ok, wooden keyboard and the replacement of AWM where huge compared to others... but you can’t expect a revolution every 3 years, or you will must be disappointed everytime.

You also have to consider diminishing returns. Getting rid of AWM will surely have an impact more important than later progress. The next major improvement is unlooped samples... but who knows when it will come.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 07:12 PM
Okay, now I’m intrigued: Yamaha makes no mention of any ‘modifications’ to the GrandTouch, but Bonners explicitly states “GrandTouch ‘improved’ Keyboard”.

Is it or is it not modified/improved? Is Bonners the unofficial spokesperson for Yamaha?

What gives?
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 07:32 PM
@Pete14 : Unfortunately, will have to wait for a long time before CLP675 service manual to leak on the Web. (I have only found the CLP575...) then, it will be hard to detect if some parts have been changed.
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 07:42 PM
I think you forget something important. Unlike Kawai, Yamaha never announce small changes in their keyboard actions. We've discussed how GH was their main digital action for many years without Yamaha announcing any changes/improvements/fixes while it was confirmed it went through various upgrades.

Compare that to Kawai who say: we improved this and that, we fixed the faulty teflon tape capstan in GF2, we improved the mushy feeling cushioning, etc. And then if you're an existing customer you might get a bit mad since you own the old action which Kawai themselves admitted was suboptimal.

Yamaha play the other game. They imply the action was perfect since the beginning therefore it didn't require changes wink Yet it's changed.
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 08:00 PM
@CyberGene : Read from Kawai-global.com : the CA99 combines a new keyboard action with improved digital piano technology to create uncompromising touch and tone.

Ok, it is not “perfect”, but uncompromised ! The site doesn’t decline all improvement but just sum up them by “ the upgraded Grand Feel III keyboard action”.

Then, if I understand well, what is reproached from Yamaha is not that they hasn’t made a quantum leap (it was my perception), but just that they doesn’t communicate on any little tiny improvements.


I think that all brands are just evaluated by actual buyers which vote with heir wallet after trying the real thing in a shop. From what I know (but only with 2 years old DP tried in a shop), Yamaha is quite competitive. What is claimed in a brochure or whatever else doesn’t count, I just trust my fingers and my ears.
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 08:08 PM
I've heard that Yamaha have pretty aggressive presence strategy. They are a huge corporation after all. I have a friend who has a small music store in Sofia (actually he is the official Kawai dealer in Bulgaria but sells other brands too except Yamaha) and he told me that he has been approached many times by Yamaha representatives who discussed why he doesn't sell Yamaha pianos in his store. He said it's only Yamaha that he has been approached by them, in contrast to the other brands that he sells which was his choice and he was the one to approach them. On the acoustic piano forum someone in 2015 claimed that in the International Chopin Piano Competition in Warsaw there was a dedicated Yamaha technician to prepare the CFX, where the rest of the pianos (the Steinway, the Kawai and the Fazioli) were served by a single local technician. Expectedly the biggest percentage of contestants chose the CFX because it was probably in a top notch condition. I guess Yamaha want to think of themselves as the faultless king shark in the sea smile And it really seems like they sell more digital pianos than any other brand although it would be interesting by how much.
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 08:38 PM
Ok, we can argue that the success of Yamaha also comes from a better selling network. But this doesn’t explain the thread « 404 Excitement not found »we can found here and not about concurrent brands which are not so much advanced in my humble opinion.

If you have a gripe about Yamaha, why not expose this gripe about its actual reason and not pretext ?

I plan to buy a N1X, but one reason is that it is difficult for me to try and test the NV10... Then it is sure that the success of Yamaha comes also from other reasons than the quality of their products. But I really think they are quite good. (After comparing Yamaha, Roland, Kawai, Casio with no bias).
Posted By: EPW Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 08:51 PM
I would love to have a store here in the Chicago-land area that has in stock the major brands to try like Bonners in England. But nope. Naperville Music only sells Yamaha now. Cordigan Piano sells Roland and Kawai but no Yamaha. So I had to bounce between them to test out pianos. One of the stores was extremely nice and left me alone and the other store was like a vulture hanging over me. Not nice!

Anyway it is nice to see at least little advancement in the new 700 series of Yamaha. With Covid all my buying has been put on hold. So I can wait till the fall to go test them and hopefully find a new baby to take home smile
Posted By: Nifrigel Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 09:00 PM
Does CLP-785 have the same action and samples as CLP-795GP? Are there any stimuli to go for GP variant except for the grand piano look?
Posted By: joemama42O Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 09:13 PM
Oh lord. This thread has devolved so low. You guys haven't even heard the piano! But still, the AvantGrands are better than this and not that much more expensive... The Clavinovas are in a tough spot. Put in real grand action/upright action and it becomes an AvantGrand... So they add a GrandTouch-S? What is that? S for... slim? I don't even know.
Posted By: Nifrigel Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 09:20 PM
Well, 85 series are more or less competitive with LX and CA and far below AvantGrand price bracket. 95GP on the other hand is surely within striking distance of N1X.
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/01/20 09:52 PM
The only selling point of the Clavinova over the AvantGrand is those extra built-in sounds. The price of the NU1X is mighty close to the CLP785 and personally, I’ll choose the NU1X any day. There’s just no substitute for an acoustic action.
Posted By: Kougeru Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 04:43 AM
Originally Posted by mwf
Why is everyone saying its a new action... Its the same overly heavy grandtouch, yamaha have ignored all feedback as predicted, they lost a loyal customer in me, I'll be opting for kawai now.

Or they listened to "feedback" from actual customers, thousands upon thousands that enjoyed the GrandTouch action, including many professional concert musicians. It's a simple fact that not everyone has the same tastes. This thread is just hilarious. No one's heard or played the instrument and it's just constant bashing here. Other companies (I won't name) make very little changes as well but people still get excited but when it's YAMAHA it's full on hatred lol.

As for the samples, yes they CAN improve them even if they were good before. We all know the samples are these things are pretty tiny compared to VST. So maybe they just use larger versions of the "same" samples, or improved how the software plays the samples back. We don't know. I don't like to judge based off YouTube videos. For now it all sounds "good" to me, but I'm not blown away...I'm never blown away by YT. I didn't care for the CLP 685 until I heard it in person, or the LX 708 and CA98.
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 04:56 AM
Originally Posted by CyberGene
On the acoustic piano forum someone in 2015 claimed that in the International Chopin Piano Competition in Warsaw there was a dedicated Yamaha technician to prepare the CFX, where the rest of the pianos (the Steinway, the Kawai and the Fazioli) were served by a single local technician.

I don't believe this is correct.

It's my understanding that Kawai sends technicians to prepare SK-EX instruments used at international piano competitions.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 05:05 AM
Originally Posted by CyberGene
On the comparison spec section the 735 is the only one listed without having wood in the key description which led me think this is for all the S-keys. But probably it’s not that. Or they can make two variants - with wood or with plastic core.

Yes, I believe you're correct. Essentially the same action design but with different white key material.

CLP-745: Grand Touch-S with wood-plastic white keys
CLP-735: Grand Touch-S with plastic keys

This simplifies the action naming convention, as all Clavinova models now use a kind of "Grand Touch" action, as opposed to having three different action names with the CLP-600 series. However, I cannot help but wonder if some CLP-735 customers may purchase the instrument on the mistaken assumption that it features wooden keys.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: impossiblejj Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 06:37 AM
I would like to see the action from 785... I always wonder why Yamaha is the only company which is shy or not confident to show their action. Perhaps their presence is so big that they do not care...
Posted By: tudor33sud Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 07:01 AM
Here's some new video of CLP 785 recorded externally smile To me it seems like the display is turned off while playing, which may be good news to people as read here.
Posted By: impossiblejj Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 07:06 AM
Originally Posted by kpuk
Good to see some more objective comments instead of all the negativity which is simply paralysis by analysis.
Prices released in the UK seem a little high compared to the competition, but no doubt discounts will emerge in a few months.
For those who are not enamoured by the ‘antique’ control panel, just get the Smart Pianist app. It provides a brilliant interface with the piano, so thumbs up to Yamaha. All the other main manufacturers have wisely followed Yamaha’s lead!!

Sorry but Kawai is in the lead.

You know - if you are buying top of the line piano, that you expect modern, not 20 years old technology. The same screen was at 500 series. The only change from 5xx is the way how you push the buttons, but still the same poor and hard to navigate screen, from which Kawai resigned years ago. But this is all Yamaha. We will sell you crap hidden in marketing BS.

And their hammers, which are bended wires, or at least were few years ago. How does it look today, noone knows.

But if Yamaha wouldn't be ashamed of the look of their action, they would be more than happy to show it.
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 07:08 AM
Originally Posted by tudor33sud
To me it seems like the display is turned off while playing...

Well, the control panel disappears, but it seems that the LCD display itself (the blue rectangle at the top of the control panel) remains turned on.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 07:26 AM
I don’t care that the action still uses bended rods or not. What matters is the feeling, and when I have compared CLP6xx with Roland (PHA50) or kawai (GF I or II), I have found the CLP6xx nice enough. In fact the NWX is quite an improvement over the GH3X.
Posted By: tudor33sud Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 07:28 AM
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by tudor33sud
To me it seems like the display is turned off while playing...

Well, the control panel disappears, but it seems that the LCD display itself (the blue rectangle at the top of the control panel) remains turned on.

Kind regards,
James
x

Sorry for that, I guess I was too focused at the keys.

Honestly, I am pretty curious testing one Yamaha in reality just to see how they improved the speaker experience as they market it. I noticed how the speakers on the piano dramatically change the experience, and even though VSTs may sound good on recordings, I usually like pianos as they are built, since the sound projection is far far better than a stereo setup when you play them live, and the overall experience is very smooth.

Let's hope Bonners Music has too much time in this pandemic and they'll bring us a full blown review laugh
Posted By: QuasiUnaFantasia Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 08:38 AM
I just heard back from the main Danish music store chain; they said it was far too early to predict when the instruments actually arrive in the stores, but they believed that arrival to be somewhere between 1 to 5 months from now. They further said that they were to have been announced in April, and instead were announced July 1, owing to Corona and closed factories.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 09:17 AM
On behalf of little Timmy and I, myself, I would like to congratulate my fellow members for this year’s participation in ‘Yamaha Bashfest’. I must say that I am personally proud of all the expert bashing and look forward to seeing some hands-on goodness down the road! smirk
Posted By: 9190 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 09:35 AM
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by tudor33sud
To me it seems like the display is turned off while playing...

Well, the control panel disappears, but it seems that the LCD display itself (the blue rectangle at the top of the control panel) remains turned on.

Maybe some kind of reflection. Because here we can clearly see that both the control panel and the screen turn off. And despite the fact that the screen is turned off, we still see its clear outlines, as in the video above, which can cause the feeling that the screen is turned on if there is a lot of light in the room.
Posted By: mwf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 09:52 AM
Originally Posted by Kougeru
Originally Posted by mwf
Why is everyone saying its a new action... Its the same overly heavy grandtouch, yamaha have ignored all feedback as predicted, they lost a loyal customer in me, I'll be opting for kawai now.

Or they listened to "feedback" from actual customers, thousands upon thousands that enjoyed the GrandTouch action, including many professional concert musicians. It's a simple fact that not everyone has the same tastes.

So you think there are many concert pianists out there who like the grandtouch action? As in concert pianists who practice and perform mainly on expensive high end grands that have real actions with average downweights half that approx of the GT action.... You are in fantasy land my friend, and you also think thousands and thousands love the action? You think they sold that many? I heard 1,yes there was maybe 1 'concert pianist' on this forum or who someone knew that liked the grandtouch action... You appear to have taken that info and turned it into this nonsense you have spouted...
Posted By: Ronaldo777uk Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 09:54 AM
They would be crazy to announce them if they're not going to be available soon? Cause all the people like me who were holding off on a CLP-6xx in anticipation of a 7xx, are just going to carry on waiting, thus killing sales stone dead?
Posted By: 9190 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 10:13 AM
Originally Posted by impossiblejj
And their hammers, which are bended wires, or at least were few years ago. How does it look today, noone knows.

But if Yamaha wouldn't be ashamed of the look of their action, they would be more than happy to show it.

I had an instrument from Yamaha with GH3 action (with those "bended wires"), and Kawai with RHII action. I didn't have any problems with Yamaha keyboard, I liked the feel and the lack of any problems. And I have a lot of complaints about RHII keyboard from Kawai. So after that, I ask: what does it matter to me who shows the structure of their keyboard action, and who does not, if in the end I am definitely more satisfied with the keyboard whose manufacturer does not show it or shows "bended wires"? I don't care what keyboard action looks like as long as I'm happy with the feel and reliability of the keyboard.

And about the screen, I would definitely prefer an "old-fashioned" screen and control panel with separate buttons (like on lower-end models from Kawai or Yamaha) than one large touch screen and the way it is implemented in the flagship models of Kawai now.
Posted By: kpuk Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 10:33 AM
Availability in the UK on dealers websites is October, so a few months before we can get some objective hands on views.
I am sure Tony from Bonners will post one of his excellent demonstrations, but note they are demonstrations, not critical reviews. He always advises people to visit Bonners to try before you buy, which most users of this forum also sensibly recommend.
Yamaha certainly market their products well. Kawai have some excellent digital pianos, but although my local dealer in Newcastle on Tyne sells Kawai acoustic upright and grand pianos, but they will not stock Kawai digital because they cannot sell them (their words not mine).
They also stock Roland, and I love the LX 708 cabinet, but their new modelled sound is so artificial to my ears. Sorry Roland fans.
So I will visit Bonners in October, a 600 mile round trip, to test drive the Yamaha alongside the Kawai and the new Dexibell H10 and give you the benefit of my very inexperienced views!!!
Posted By: Arthur18 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 11:14 AM
According to Yamaha French website, clp700 will be available in September in France, except from clp785 which should be available in October.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 11:31 AM
I wonder how the 785 will compare to the NU1X.

Overall, it seems like people ‘round here preferred the NU1X over the 685; even in terms of sound; which baffled me since the NU1X only uses four modest speakers. And yes, when it comes to ‘upright cabinet’ type pianos the more -speakers- the better; it’s simply a matter of dispersion and not raw volume (they can all get pretty loud).

My take is that Yamaha did not touch the speaker system for the 785. The more I read about the ‘transducers’, the more I feel like these are being used for vibrations rather than sound; akin to the TRS; only this time Yamaha seems to go for the whole cabinet (vibration) instead of just the keys (I could be wrong).
Posted By: jeffcat Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 12:11 PM
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by CyberGene
On the acoustic piano forum someone in 2015 claimed that in the International Chopin Piano Competition in Warsaw there was a dedicated Yamaha technician to prepare the CFX, where the rest of the pianos (the Steinway, the Kawai and the Fazioli) were served by a single local technician.

I don't believe this is correct.

It's my understanding that Kawai sends technicians to prepare SK-EX instruments used at international piano competitions.

What Kawai James is trying to say is, Kawai, pays James, to go to international competitions to slip a few benjamins in the competitor's pockets to select the Kawai. But of recent years, yamaha has been dishing out heavier benjamins. So, Kawai has been planting these Informational attack dogs on Online Piano forums to roll fud' on yamaha discussions.
Posted By: Nordomus Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 12:53 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
I wonder how the 785 will compare to the NU1X.

Overall, it seems like people ‘round here preferred the NU1X over the 685; even in terms of sound; which baffled me since the NU1X only uses four modest speakers. And yes, when it comes to ‘upright cabinet’ type pianos the more -speakers- the better; it’s simply a matter of dispersion and not raw volume (they can all get pretty loud).

I think you overestimate how many people play with in build speakers. I think those that prefer NU1X over CLP 685 are liking keyboard more or they just play on headphones and don't mind weaker speaker system. Honestly even N3X I've tested had a bit too weak sound compared to real grand piano or even CLP685 or CA98. And I don't mean sound loudness alone, rather it didn't have proper vibrations.
Posted By: David Lai Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 02:49 PM
There's Beethoven, and there's Chopin! I'm listening to the Chopin right now and it sounds like it's a 19th century piano sample? This is exciting! smile
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 03:09 PM
Did they or did they not improve the action? I don’t want any ‘ifs, ands, or buts’; I just want a straight answer! Yes or No!

Did they sample Chopin’s piano?...once again, ‘Yes or No’.

Did they update speaker system?.....do I need to say it again?......Yes or freaking No!

I’m losing my patience here.

So far the only thing we know for certain is that the NU1X still kicks the 785’s ass! laugh
Posted By: Nordomus Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 03:21 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
Did they update speaker system?.....do I need to say it again?......Yes or freaking No!
You can see in t he specs then did not.
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 03:23 PM
Oh Pete! Show some patience. Because you're not going to buy one, right? Me neither. smile
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 03:23 PM
But what’s all this talk about transducers? Surely, it doesn’t have a sound board, so is this simply for good vibrations?
Posted By: jeffcat Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 03:55 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
But what’s all this talk about transducers? Surely, it doesn’t have a sound board, so is this simply for good vibrations?

It's the same thing as the Rumble pak for N64 controllers. or the ubiquitous vibration feature in all modern consoles. It just doesn't vibrate the keys, it kind of just wiggles your belly fat.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 04:55 PM
Can it wiggle other things, I ask?
Posted By: kpuk Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 05:15 PM
Calm down Pete. I am getting concerned about your blood pressure. Remember, patience is a virtue!!!!!
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 05:22 PM
blush
Posted By: EPW Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 05:28 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
Can it wiggle other things, I ask?

It depends on how you sit on the bench!
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 05:32 PM
blush
Posted By: rmnd Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 07:45 PM
Well - hate to rain on the the troll parade, my suggestion would be to create a diferent "Let's be negative on a piano nobody has seen and I don't want to buy thread" for those posts.

I'm actually really curious about thenew series. Especially the CLP-745 and possibly the CLP-775. It'll be also interesting to see when and what pricepoint they'll come available over here in The Netherlands. As far as I've seen there's no CLP-645 PE's in stock anywhere anymore here. Spotted a white one in Amsterdam though (for EUR 1995). The new ones don't seem to be a major upgrade, but nice enough not to rush to a store and get a 645.

Maybe I'm biased. Just to share a different perspective, currently playing mostly on a CLP-300 which is well over 30 years old (yes, ready for an upgrade in action, samples and sound ;-) ) which has developed only some minor issues. Also play on an upright Petrof, which is way nicer. I don't think anything in the CLP-700 series would be good enough to beat a proper accoustic upright in sound, feel and overall "playing experience".
Posted By: fakeChopin Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 07:46 PM
Does anyone have info (or even a guess) on the difference between GrandTouch and GrandTouch-S?

I’ll make a guess myself: GrandTouch uses wood, while the -S version uses plastic?

On that note, does the wood really make a difference? Folks who have tried wood and plastic, what difference did it make for you?
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 07:53 PM
Originally Posted by fakeChopin
Does anyone have info (or even a guess) on the difference between GrandTouch and GrandTouch-S?

I’ll make a guess myself: GrandTouch uses wood, while the -S version uses plastic?

On that note, does the wood really make a difference? Folks who have tried wood and plastic, what difference did it make for you?
CLP-745 has wooden GrandTouch-S. I'm guessing S means small or short which may mean shorter key sticks.
Posted By: Karim 888 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 08:45 PM
Hi guys. I want to ask if there is a difference between the grand touch in the clp 685 and the grand touch in the new clp 785?
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 08:51 PM
Originally Posted by fakeChopin
On that note, does the wood really make a difference? Folks who have tried wood and plastic, what difference did it make for you?

Night and day... the NWX keyboard feels quite* nice when I have tried it. Afterward, I have tried a GH3X and feel it too light under my finger.

(*quite... I reverse the “really nice” to the N1/N3 I have tried before)
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 09:03 PM
Originally Posted by Karim 888
Hi guys. I want to ask if there is a difference between the grand touch in the clp 685 and the grand touch in the new clp 785?

Won't know until it's out for you to try it.
Posted By: Karim 888 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 09:06 PM
Thank you so much 🙏
Posted By: LeslieHammond Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 09:08 PM
The Yamaha website now has the manual for the CLP-700 series on their website. It answers some of the questions and points of speculation in this thread, including the differences between models. However, things will be clearer when the first reviews start coming in.
https://ca.yamaha.com/en/products/m...nova/clp-785/downloads.html#product-tabs
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 09:11 PM
I was written something like Beowolf terms...

About feelings, the best thing to do is try by yourself. I had an hard time to feel differences between Yamaha wooden keyboards (NWX, GrandTouch, GrandTouch with counterweight). I mean, I didn’t feel much difference (But AvantGrand/NWX is night and day and the same is about NWX/GH3X). Then I am sure that GrandTouch and GrandTouch will feel quite comparable under my finger.
Posted By: Kougeru Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/02/20 11:19 PM
So the manual shows they have an SU7 sample but they do NOT have the fantastic U1 sample that's in the CP88. That's a huge let-down to me. The U1 sample was amazing

gonna guess the chopin piano is a Pleyel

Quote
The sound of a piano made by a piano manufacturer in Paris in the 19th century.
Chopin deeply loved the pianos of this manufacturer, which responded well to his
sensitive touch. It has a sound like a singing voice, sometimes luscious, sometimes
mournful.
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/03/20 12:09 AM
I don't see negative comments about these pianos. I see skepticism over the claims or expectations that they will be newer, bigger, better.
Originally Posted by rmnd
Well - hate to rain on the the troll parade, my suggestion would be to create a diferent "Let's be negative on a piano nobody has seen and I don't want to buy thread" for those posts.
Posted By: tudor33sud Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/03/20 08:30 AM


Something to keep an eye on for people interested in the CLP 700 series. Maybe this will answer a couple of questions we already have
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/03/20 08:45 AM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I don't see negative comments about these pianos. I see skepticism over the claims or expectations that they will be newer, bigger, better.

What do you like to have in a new Clavinova? And what is it that you don't like in the 6XX series that you wanted to see improved?
The older thread wondered about a 725 model and actually it's already visible (by mistake?) on this site:

https://ca.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/pianos/clavinova/clp-725/features.html

Quote
- New CFX, Bösendorfer Imperial piano samples
- CFX binaural sampling
- 10 voices
- Improved VRM (Virtual Resonance Modeling)
- Grand Expression Modeling
- GrandTouch-S™ keyboard with synthetic ebony and ivory keytops
- 20 W x 2 amplifiers
- 12 cm x 2 speaker system
- Smart Pianist app integration

[Linked Image]
For comparison the 735 specs:

Quote
- New Yamaha CFX and Bösendorfer Imperial piano samples, new Yamaha CFX and Bösendorfer binaural sampling
- 38 voices, including 2 fortepiano voices (Mozart Piano/Chopin Piano)
- Improved VRM (Virtual Resonance Modeling)
- Grand Expression Modeling
- GrandTouch-S™ keyboard with synthetic ebony and ivory keytops
- 30 W x 2 amplifiers
- 16 cm x 2 speaker system
- USB Audio Recorder (Playback/Recording: WAV)
- 20 rhythms
- Smart Pianist App integration
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/03/20 09:57 AM
So, Grandtouch key action in the whole range.
Really looking forward to see the improvements... Specially in Gt-s variation.
Posted By: EssBrace Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/03/20 11:39 AM
To my mind the big news is in "New CFX and Bosendorfer Imperial samples".

These could be a Kawai-style UPHI to HI-XL type deal where the basic sample sessions are the same and the same original recordings are used but they reconfigure them in some way. But it could be derived from a new recording session.

So, to recap:

New samples + new keyboard action + new sound engine and/or expression modelling + improved resonance modelling.

And still no one is happy. Everyone bitching away, slagging Yamaha off. No one has played one. Almost no one wants to give them a chance.

I'm thinking this has got to be a symptom of some wider malaise with life in general.
Posted By: kpuk Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/03/20 12:18 PM
Thank you EssBrace. I am in almost full agreement. There is far too much bitching, but not by ‘everyone’. I am looking forward to getting more information and eventually a full test drive to allow me to make up my own mind. I just ignore the mindless bitching.
I have owned both Yamaha and Kawai digital pianos, all of them good, but none of them perfect. As the saying goes, accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative.
I look forward to constructive feedback from members who are interested enough to actually try the pianos when they arrive, and hopefully you will be one of them.
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/03/20 12:21 PM
I'm OK with the bitching, and I myself do it often, but only when the pianos are available and we have tested them.

There's an announcement, seems like many things are new: new samples, new sound engine, new action. How come that's so bad?
Posted By: mwf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/03/20 12:40 PM
No new action, only grandtouch-S on lower models... The higher models have the same grandtouch action as in the clp 600 series.
Posted By: QuasiUnaFantasia Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/03/20 12:44 PM
I've ridiculed Yamaha quite a fair bit. The reason is that when I first went to test their instruments, I had great expectations - mostly because of the Bösendorfer sampling, since I am a Bösendorfer fan - but the action on both the 675 and 685 were so artificial, so unlike any acoustic I had ever played, that it seemed to me as if Yamaha were not at all trying to simulate the feel of an acoustic. I felt deceived, although it was of no direct relevance to me, since I was in the market for something much cheaper. Ultimately I got the Roland FP-30, whose action I considered (and still consider) vastly superior to that of the CLP-685.
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/03/20 12:48 PM
Originally Posted by mwf
No new action, only grandtouch-S on lower models... The higher models have the same grandtouch action as in the clp 600 series.

Yamaha have changed their GH-action throughout the years (slightly but still) without any confirmation about that. Without testing the new action, we don't know for sure if it's exactly the same. For instance I also hated the CLP-675 action, the initial friction was unnatural to me. Maybe they reduced that friction without having to come up with new name for the action, or use versioning like Kawai actions.
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/03/20 12:54 PM
There's English. And there's marketing English.
In the latter, "new improved" means as "same old, same old".
Look that up in your Funk & Wagnalls. smile
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/03/20 01:01 PM
I think we will see an improvement here in the key action/connection department.
On the sound department ididn't like at all from what i heard in the teaser video.
Sounds like the same old sample from 10 years ago.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/03/20 01:07 PM
RGE2: very vague description about the improvements; so much so that it has left us wondering whether there’s a fourth sensor or even optical sensors in there. Sure they have a cute graph that shows some colored areas indicating that the engine is capable of more than just ppp to fff; ‘it can render many shades in between’, but I wonder how many shades? 50 shades of grey? 75 shades of red? I don’t know, it’s just too vague.

New action: well, when I bash I go for the top (785), and no, there’s no new action there. Of course, Yamaha toys with us as to whether there’s been any improvements made to the action instead of just telling us; what the heck did you improve? Is it lighter, smoother, cooler?

New samples: this one is tricky. Let’s assume they actually recorded these from scratch (we have to assume ‘cause they don’t tell us); these are recording sessions and in many ways share a common thread with ‘performance recording session’. A lot can go wrong in a recording session and just because the previous session was a hit there’s no guarantee the new session will produce the same or even better results.

This is why we only have one Bohemian Rhapsody; do you think Queen didn’t shoot for a sequel (best sound engineers, best studio, best everything)? Of course they did, but the magic just didn’t quite happen again. Sure they had other hits, but nothing as musically transcendental as Bohemian. So yes, ‘new samples’ does not necessarily translate into better...

Yes, we are bashing based on specs, and further exploration -in person- will either confirm or render moot our assumptions. That being said, these are not acoustic instruments, and yes, a lot can be deduced from specs alone. For example, if the speakers and cabinet are the same as in the 685, anyone familiar with the 685 can have an idea of what it’ll be like to sit in front of the 785 in terms of sound diffusion.

So yes, specs + time + familiarity with previous models can indeed paint a decent, if not the whole, picture.
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/03/20 01:16 PM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
There's English. And there's marketing English.
In the latter, "new improved" means as "same old, same old".
Look that up in your Funk & Wagnalls. smile

Mac, you're just too stubborn. Dare I say childishly so smile Did you expect that they will send you service manuals, blueprints and patent papers with detailed descriptions? And without that do we automatically accept that there are no improvements, just a single big lie? smile Language is not math. It's ridiculous to accept axiomatic rules about marketing.
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/03/20 01:34 PM
Stubborn? Yes.
Childishly so? No ... it's built from decades of experience.

And it's not ridiculous at all.

The sun rises every day. I expect that to continue.
Marketing press releases spew misleading copy. I expect that to continue, too.

Future results often do mirror past experience. smile

As for this ...
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Did you expect that they will send you service manuals, blueprints and patent papers with detailed descriptions?
No, I don't expect manuals.
And I don't expect complete (or honest) information, either.

I expect the opposite: deception. Or, more properly, carefully crafted text designed to make us deceive ourselves ...
... by reading more into the words than they mean
... by filling in deliberate gaps
... by interpreting vague words in a way that seems favorable

Advertising is about getting people to lie to themselves. I try not to do that.
Posted By: QuasiUnaFantasia Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/03/20 01:40 PM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
There's English. And there's marketing English.
In the latter, "new improved" means as "same old, same old".
Look that up in your Funk & Wagnalls. smile

Unususally for a dane, I actually have the Funk & Wagnalls, and I dare say you seem to be on to something.

It states:

Improve: To increase the value or profit of.

Undoubtedly, Yamaha is trying to increase their profit, so their new version must be either cheaper to manufacture, or sold at a higher price. Thus new and improved. smile
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/03/20 01:44 PM
I still think you are going too much into this marketing conspiracy plot. We have something really new this time, the Grand Expression Modeling. It's the first time I see a digital piano specifically mentioning how things like partial taps on the keys (leggiero) or trills are being taken care of through modeling, as well as taking into account the depth to which keys are pressed, not just the velocity information from the sensors. On a hybrid piano like the N1X we have sensors on both the hammers and the keys, and so naturally the piano has information about both hammer velocity and key position (hence damper position). On a typical digital piano that's not the case. Which is why typical digital pianos lack in regards to leggiero and consistent trill velocity. Do you believe Yamaha lied about that and they haven't done anything at all? They just decided to bring up some new lies nobody else has came up with? Even if they fail to explain it (which is difficult because I also don't know how to explain it to the regular Joe without it sounding like mumbo-jumbo), it doesn't mean they haven't actually innovated and created something original.
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/03/20 02:09 PM
Don't bring a straw man into this. I never said anything about a conspiracy.

As for lying ... advertisers don't have to lie to you. Indeed, the law here says they must not. And it's most likely that they don't.

The point is that I try not to read more into a claim than what is plainly stated. That's not to say that the loose claims are necessarily false. But I don't want to make them seem true by inventing some justification.

Notice that you took a trade-name Grand Expression Modeling ... and interpreted that as akin to the sort of modeling that we see in Pianoteq and elsewhere. That might be true. Or might not. I would not make that assumption.

Your interpretation of modeling has meaning. Their use of the word in a capitalized trade-name does not. Indeed, trade-names can say just about anything at all, and need have not a shred of truth in them. They are allowed to be, and are intended to be, entirely fictitious. As such they can often be deceptive.

Now, there could indeed be something to the apparent claims. But I think we should believe that only after seeing, touching, and hearing the product. Until then I think we can only expect small changes ... just like we've seen time after time over the decades. If ony Dewster would re-visit PW and regale us with his detailed study of such things.

And I'm not a Yamaha basher at all. I own a Yamaha, and my next one will likely be a Yamaha.
Originally Posted by CyberGene
I still think you are going too much into this marketing conspiracy plot.

We have something really new this time, the Grand Expression Modeling. It's the first time I see a digital piano specifically mentioning how things like partial taps on the keys (leggiero) or trills are being taken care of through modeling, as well as taking into account the depth to which keys are pressed, not just the velocity information from the sensors.

Do you believe Yamaha lied about that and they haven't done anything at all? They just decided to bring up some new lies nobody else has came up with? Even if they fail to explain it (which is difficult because I also don't know how to explain it to the regular Joe without it sounding like mumbo-jumbo), it doesn't mean they haven't actually innovated and created something original.
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/03/20 02:11 PM
In my reference to F&W I was casting a net, trying to see who (if anyone) had ever heard of it ... or of the full phrase.
It's quite an oldie. I'm surprised you have one.
Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Look that up in your Funk & Wagnalls. smile
Unususally for a dane, I actually have the Funk & Wagnalls, and I dare say you seem to be on to something.

It states: Improve: To increase the value or profit of.

Undoubtedly, Yamaha is trying to increase their profit, so their new version must be either cheaper to manufacture, or sold at a higher price. Thus new and improved. smile
BTW, do you have the dictionary, or the encyclopedia?
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/03/20 02:25 PM
Originally Posted by CyberGene
For instance I also hated the CLP-675 action, the initial friction was unnatural to me.

The first time I have tried a CA97 with its Grand Feel keyboard, I have felt such an unatural friction. I have tried it an other day and didn't felt this issue.

I didn't felt such friction on a CLP675.
Posted By: QuasiUnaFantasia Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/03/20 02:27 PM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
In my reference to F&W I was casting a net, trying to see who (if anyone) had ever heard of it ... or of the full phrase.
It's quite an oldie. I'm surprised you have one.
Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Look that up in your Funk & Wagnalls. smile
Unususally for a dane, I actually have the Funk & Wagnalls, and I dare say you seem to be on to something.

It states: Improve: To increase the value or profit of.

Undoubtedly, Yamaha is trying to increase their profit, so their new version must be either cheaper to manufacture, or sold at a higher price. Thus new and improved. smile
BTW, do you have the dictionary, or the encyclopedia?

It's the Funk & Wagnalls Standard Dictionary, International Edition in two volumes. I quite like it, because it has fairly extensive explanations for the words.
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/03/20 03:00 PM
I'm not sure I understand the problem. A new piano is announced, there's some marketing and there's some backlash.

So, I'm trying to understand what would a dream announcement have been, which wouldn't have generated that backlash? You say marketing is always a BS and that has proven itself through the years but it's always marketing that presents a new piano. How do you imagine a honest new product presentation that won't cause backlash (OK, OK, let's call it skepticism)? No marketing materials, instead call the engineers to explain what they have designed, explanations, comparisons with real pianos, with other digital pianos? On the very first day? Or do you prefer this to be independent researchers, reviewers? Yamaha to withhold any marketing materials on they first day announcement, instead leaving third parties to present the piano without marketing blurb?
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/03/20 03:19 PM
Originally Posted by Frédéric L
Originally Posted by CyberGene
For instance I also hated the CLP-675 action, the initial friction was unnatural to me.

The first time I have tried a CA97 with its Grand Feel keyboard, I have felt such an unatural friction. I have tried it an other day and didn't felt this issue.

I didn't felt such friction on a CLP675.

There's some truth in your words. When I tested the CLP-675 for the first time, I was still an owner of a Kawai ES7 which is a very light feeling keyboard and I wasn't used to a heavy action. I also felt the same way about the NWX action in the P515.

I've since retested both the CLP-675 and the P515, after owning the N1X and being used to a real grand piano action and indeed I didn't notice the high friction in such a bad way. I believe there's still some friction that is a bit higher than how the N1X feels but I didn't find it annoying, just different. I think judging actions shouldn't be made based on very first impression after owning some other piano for a long time.

In the first days after I finished the Cybrid I felt odd difference between it and the N1X. However since I play both regularly and every day, currently I don't find any noticeable difference. I'm not saying there isn't any difference. Quite on the contrary, there is but I'm used to the two actions equally and my fingers and brain have internalized the two feelings to adapt immediately and not be bothered by the differences. All that being said, I've been unfair to Kawai actions (e.g. the mushy feeling that I experienced with CA78 after a month with the NU1X). The best way is to play a piano for at least a month and then judge how you feel based on the cumulative experience. Another example. I remember the CA63, I owned it for a year or something and I was very familiar and used to it but was never very happy with it. It was just an OK action. When I replaced it with a MP6 the RH-action very quickly become my second nature and I loved it for the entire time, then the same with the ES7.
Posted By: QuasiUnaFantasia Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/03/20 03:28 PM
Often, when new products are being marketed, objective measurements of various factors generally seen as important are stated in the advertisement material. Think of cars, for example.

To an extent Yamaha can be excused because in the digital piano industry there has not yet been established the same kind of quantitative important factors as seen in more mature industries.

However, in the case of the new CLP-700 series, Yamaha could for example have been explicit about increase in size of the sample libraries, change in downweight in the action, etc. Because it is known that such issues will impact the playing experience.
"Grand Expression Modeling" can't be anything overly fancy and complicated as it's found in the CLP-725 too.

If it were anything fancy and complicated it would be reserved for the higher range models only.

(I suppose...)
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/03/20 03:31 PM
If you want to appreciate a keyboard, you mustn't try it after an AvantGrand (and probably the NV10 but I haven’t tried it).
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/03/20 04:31 PM
Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
However, in the case of the new CLP-700 series, Yamaha could for example have been explicit about increase in size of the sample libraries, change in downweight in the action, etc. Because it is known that such issues will impact the playing experience.

+1

I don’t mind the gibberish so much as the deliberate omission of important aspects.
For example, after much complaining about the GrandTouch (controversial action, to say the least), Yamaha could’ve at least thrown in ‘improved’ in their description. Oddly enough, a dealer (Bonners) states this, but are we to consider this official unless Yamaha confirms it?
Posted By: RMarlowe Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/03/20 05:03 PM
Originally Posted by mwf
Why is everyone saying its a new action... Its the same overly heavy grandtouch, yamaha have ignored all feedback as predicted, they lost a loyal customer in me, I'll be opting for kawai now.


I just sold my 1960s G2 that my father bought for me new over 50 years ago, so I'm certainly used to the "heavy touch" of a Yamaha, but sound really is critical (when you get to my age, downsizing becomes a reality). If there was an N2X, that might be an option. The NV10 seems outdated. The Yamaha 700-series lacks a proper action, or so it seems. We shall see, I guess.

Maybe Kawai or Yamaha will update one of their flagship GRAND action (but smaller) keyboards this year with solid sampling (scans looping) and with solid additional voices.
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/03/20 05:08 PM
Can you be more specific? How is the NV10 outdated?
And, why pine for an N2X? Why not an N1X?
Posted By: RMarlowe Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/03/20 05:24 PM
The touch screen on the Nv10 is finicky, to say the least, and not up to current technological expectations. The additional (non-piano) samples are sorely lacking (missing a solid pipe organ for example).

The N1X does better with the voices, but the looping is bad, the speakers are under powered, and the control panel is awful.
Posted By: Daniel van Veen Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/03/20 07:21 PM
In the specifications for the 745 I read that the speakers are (50w+50w)*2; the 645 has (25w+25w)*2. It is both on the webpage and in the userguide. Did the speaker setup really get twice as powerful?
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/03/20 08:18 PM
Originally Posted by RMarlowe
The touch screen on the Nv10 is finicky, to say the least, and not up to current technological expectations.
Are we already living in an era where touch screen is a common feature in pianos? crazy
Posted By: EPW Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/03/20 08:29 PM
It is looking that way. What, no touch screen? I will have to pass!
Posted By: RMarlowe Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/03/20 10:32 PM
I don't think the controls have to be a touch screen, but when the dealers urge you to use an iPad to control the piano, it suggests the UI is not up to snuff. Of course, if you only intend to use the default piano sample, maybe it doesn't matter.

The NV10 sounds better (to me) then the N1X even though I'm a long-term Yamaha owner, but I'm not a fan of the limited non-piano voices of the NV10 (especially at its price point).
Posted By: Kougeru Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/03/20 10:51 PM
Originally Posted by EssBrace
To my mind the big news is in "New CFX and Bosendorfer Imperial samples".

These could be a Kawai-style UPHI to HI-XL type deal where the basic sample sessions are the same and the same original recordings are used but they reconfigure them in some way. But it could be derived from a new recording session.

So, to recap:

New samples + new keyboard action + new sound engine and/or expression modelling + improved resonance modelling.

And still no one is happy. Everyone bitching away, slagging Yamaha off. No one has played one. Almost no one wants to give them a chance.

I'm thinking this has got to be a symptom of some wider malaise with life in general.

well said! It's a bit silly really.

Originally Posted by MacMacMac
There's English. And there's marketing English.
In the latter, "new improved" means as "same old, same old".
Look that up in your Funk & Wagnalls. smile

They have to be new in some way, otherwise this is literally false advertising and is illegal.


And again I find it funny people are bashing the GrandTouch keyboard as if it's as bad as a synth keyboard. Thousands of pianist play it just fine. Feedback from actual users was clearly good enough for them to not change.
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/03/20 11:12 PM
Did anyone bash the GrandTouch keyboard? Anyone? Did I miss something?
Originally Posted by Kougeru
I find it funny people are bashing the GrandTouch keyboard as if it's as bad as a synth keyboard.
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 07:07 AM
@MacMacMac, It is the whole product which has been denigrated, keyboard included.

Originally Posted by Tyr
404 Excitement not found. It still sounds like the same Sampling from the older models. I doubt the GrandTouch(S) has been improved alot. Feels like another cheap shot by Yamaha to sell the same Crap over and over.
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 07:40 AM
I wouldn’t take Tyr too seriously. He often praises what he currently owns until he replaces it with the next thing which then becomes an object of praise and the previous one is then bashed. We all do to some degree, that’s probably an internal process of justification.
Posted By: Tyr Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 09:11 AM
At least my opinions are based on months of experience with an instrument instead of testing it once or twice in a shop. I simply don't see a big improvement yet on the new CLP Line.
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 09:23 AM
However, the tone generator has been updated, you more likely have not tried it. But you sum up “the same crap”.

I don’t think there is an huge evolution, but it is the same situation with other brands. Then if one have a deception about the CLP700, this means he was waiting to too much things.

I have a Yamaha at home, and have tried several times more recent models. I don’t need a lot of time to prefer the Yamaha’s samples to the Roland models, and appreciate the evolution since 2002. Then I can have a little appreciation of different models.
Posted By: Tyr Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 09:40 AM
Don't get me wrong. I also love the Yamaha Samples. I wish they would update them to be larger and more complex. Also there is a slight imbalance in volume between some octaves. This is something I always disliked. Based on the recording in the video above, I don't hear a real difference between the new and old Generation.

Obviously I don't know how the "improved" GrandTouch Action will fee,l but I doubt it will address the main issue of the keyboard. Especially when Yamaha itself doesn't say something about it.
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 09:49 AM
I havn’t feel something bad about the GrandTouch keyboard. I am as happy with them as with other keyboard at the same price range. (But inferior than N1X for example, and superior than GH3X).

Some consider them too heavy... I think it is not something which deserve the crap word, but simply something which doesn’t match anybody taste. It is not like a GF keyboard I have tried which had too much friction (but I feel it only once... perhaps a manufacturing issue not the design of the model).
Posted By: Tyr Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 10:14 AM
It's the only action i had an awkward feel about it. It feels like playing on a typewriter. I never experienced this feel on any other digital or accoustic i had played.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 10:15 AM
Are we saying it’s all subjective and driven by our inner demons? “I hate; therefore I am”.

There might be something to this observation. I know for a fact that when I’m constipated and bloated my posts tend to be darker and, shall I say, crappier.
Conversely, when I am regular my posts are lighter and tinged with a light-brown hue of optimism.

Today I stand before you totally constipated; twisted into a roll with pain and ready to crap on everything.

I am the last of the -constipated- Mohicans!
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 10:23 AM
Dang, Pete. While reading your post I nearly spilled my coffee. frown

You've outdone yourself once again.
Posted By: JackQ89 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 10:25 AM
Man Yamaha really stepped up their desigen even better than kawai.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 10:26 AM
I apologize. blush
Posted By: QuasiUnaFantasia Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 10:43 AM
Originally Posted by Tyr
It feels like playing on a typewriter.

Exactly! Most precise analogy ever! An old, non-electric typewriter. That is how the 675 and 685 feel.
Posted By: EVC2017 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 10:46 AM
Originally Posted by Frédéric L
Then if one have a deception about the CLP700, this means he was waiting to too much things.

Frédéric, do you mean disapointment? Deception is what some more extreme souls wink feel when they are disapointed. Maybe you used the word on purpose. In Portuguese (Brazilian Portugues at least) deception has a false cognate (decepção) that means disapointment.
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 11:37 AM
As a former owner of the CLP-675, I was rather fine with the GrandTouch action after my short experience with my acoustic U1. However, after some months, I realized I was getting finger fatigue too easily due to the weight + stiffness of the action. I found myself having to take longer breaks in between practice which I've never experienced with all my previous and current pianos. Now with my N1X, I play to the point where I have to take a break only due to my bad spine laugh
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 01:09 PM
@EVC2017. Yes I am victim of a « false friend » an english term which ressemble an other French word with another meaning.
Posted By: EVC2017 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 01:38 PM
Originally Posted by Frédéric L
@EVC2017. Yes I am victim of a « false friend » an english term which ressemble an other French word with another meaning.

Join the club. ROFL smile I often see weird, even funny phrases on TV caused by those.
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 02:15 PM
Yes, words in England are funny.

In America, knickers are half-length trousers. But in England, knickers are underwear.

In America, pants are full-length trousers (from the Spanish pantaloon). But in England, pants are underwear.

Hmmmmm ... there seems to be a pattern there.
Posted By: QuasiUnaFantasia Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 02:18 PM
Is that why american superheroes always wear underwear visibly?
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 02:36 PM
Yes! smirk
Posted By: ZspH4 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 06:21 PM
Why is the Clp 725 not with the rest of the lineup ? Was it the same for the clp 625 when it came out ?
The Clp 725 is the one I’m looking for as my first piano, I have been waiting for the new Clp 700 serie just for this model so its a bit disturbing to see that nobody is talking about it.
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 06:38 PM
Originally Posted by ZspH4
Why is the Clp 725 not with the rest of the lineup ? Was it the same for the clp 625 when it came out ?
The Clp 725 is the one I’m looking for as my first piano, I have been waiting for the new Clp 700 serie just for this model so its a bit disturbing to see that nobody is talking about it.
The x25 models always lacked most of the attractive features that people are looking out for on the higher end models, which is why nobody talks about it. One of the most important things missing from the 625 and its predecessor, the 525, is the VRM that boosts the realism for a digital piano.
Posted By: QuasiUnaFantasia Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 06:59 PM
This page from Yamaha shows the entire line-up, as it currently stands. And there is indeed no 725, but there is a 735.

https://dk.yamaha.com/da/products/musical_instruments/pianos/clavinova/index.html#d366071

It also gives the availability dates for the instruments (actually, availability months).

Note, that this page loads partly in English, partly in Danish on my machine, although I selected the global English website.
Posted By: Karim 888 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 07:01 PM
Are these prices very costly!! 👇

https://au.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/pianos/clavinova/clp-785/index.html
Posted By: Daniel van Veen Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 07:23 PM
Originally Posted by Beowulf
Originally Posted by ZspH4
Why is the Clp 725 not with the rest of the lineup ? Was it the same for the clp 625 when it came out ?
The Clp 725 is the one I’m looking for as my first piano, I have been waiting for the new Clp 700 serie just for this model so its a bit disturbing to see that nobody is talking about it.
The x25 models always lacked most of the attractive features that people are looking out for on the higher end models, which is why nobody talks about it. One of the most important things missing from the 625 and its predecessor, the 525, is the VRM that boosts the realism for a digital piano.

The 535 and 545 also didn't have VRM. The 635 and 645 do. But the x25 models are indeed very barebone.
Posted By: ZspH4 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 07:32 PM
https://ca.yamaha.com/fr/products/m...inova/clp-725/features.html#product-tabs
According to this page, it seems that the Clp 725 will have both the GrandTouch S and VRM. So maybe they are delaying this model due to the potential decrease in sell for the 735?
By the way, VRM is useless when playing with headphones ?
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 07:37 PM
Originally Posted by ZspH4
https://ca.yamaha.com/fr/products/m...inova/clp-725/features.html#product-tabs
According to this page, it seems that the Clp 725 will have both the GrandTouch S and VRM. So maybe they are delaying this model due to the potential decrease in sell for the 735?
By the way, VRM is useless when playing with headphones ?
That's good news for those with a tighter budget. The effects of VRM can be heard through headphones as well.
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 07:41 PM
Originally Posted by Karim 888

Yeah, unfortunately this 700 line seems considerable more expensive.
Posted By: Karim 888 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 07:44 PM
Unless these prices are not accurate otavio
Posted By: Boboulus Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 07:46 PM
I guess this is a default feature on Yamahas nos but any mention about USB audio device built-in? I could not find it in the "feature" page in the website.

On the 600-series this was only avaöble from 635 and upwards but maybe the also decided to put in the entry 725 models now?
Posted By: ZspH4 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 08:10 PM
If they put USB audio interface on top of GrandTouch S and VRM inside the 725 model I don’t see any reason to buy the 735.
IMO if the VRM and GrandTouch S are indeed coming to the 725 model they will keep USB audio interface and line out for the 735. Personally, I’m fine with it. I prefer a midi to host in order to record midi via usb and use a nice VST for the sound. If all that is true then I’ll be really happy with this 725.
Posted By: 9190 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 08:18 PM
Originally Posted by Otavio
Originally Posted by Karim 888

Yeah, unfortunately this 700 line seems considerable more expensive.

Originally Posted by Karim 888
Unless these prices are not accurate otavio

Unless you are on Australian website (au.yamaha.com) and prices there in AUD (not in USD).
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 09:01 PM
Several things ...

As Daniel van Veen said ... the x25 models are indeed very barebone.
In the past the top-end Arius model ... either the YDP-x60 or x65, or the YDP-x80 or x85 ... would be a cheaper alternative.
These Arius pianos were almost identical to the low-end CLP-x20 or x25 units. The main difference was the slightly downmarket look to their cabinets.
I don't know, though, whether that still holds true with the current crop of YDP/Arius models vs. the new CLP725.
Does anyone know?

Otavio thinks the 700 line seems considerably more expensive.
I think that's often the case when a new line appears. But keep in mind that the "suggested retail price" is not the "asking price", and that the "asking price" is not the "selling price".
I think you can get 15% to 20% off the retail price at any time without effort. The dealer's ask will often take the suggested retail down that far on his ask/sticker.
And it's not hard to get 30% if you're earnest about buying.

It's hard, though, to compare prices across regions. Yes, you can easily convert currencies. But the regional price variations are huge.
In that regard I hear that the poor Aussies take it on the chin. The stuff is made right across the pond in Indonesia ... yet the selling prices in Australia are sky high.

And even worse ... Brazil kills it with their egregious import duties.
My daughter lived in Brazil when her husband took a post-doc position there.
He was a gamer. He wanted a new Playstation.
IIRC, it cost $400 in the US. In Brazil it was $1200. Yes, it's that bad!
I don't know about the piano situation in Brazil. Does someone else here know?
Posted By: Daniel van Veen Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 09:35 PM
I recently watched a video comparing the 625 to the YDP-164, and there I learned that the Arius doesn't have String Resonance and Key Off samples. While the 625 does not have VRM, it actually does have String Resonance and Key off samples - which on the 635 and higher is part of the VRM. So, if the 725 gets the complete VRM, it will definitely have a more 'rich' sound than the Arius models.
This is the video I saw: clp-625 review
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 09:38 PM
Unfortunately, the Download page of the CLP725 has nothing to offer.

When it will be filled, we should look for Yamaha Steinberg USB driver. This driver enable audio over USB. If only the USB-MIDI driver if proposed we would not have audio over USB.
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 09:45 PM
Perhaps that's because the YDP-x6x is no longer high-end Arius?
It use to be ... but I guess the YDP-x8x is in that slot now.

Do you think you can find information on the YDP-18x and compare it to the CLP725 ?
Posted By: ZspH4 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 09:50 PM
But the YDP 184 is only sold in a couple of countries, for example in France it’s not available.
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 10:14 PM
I didn’t know about the YDP184, which is not available in France.

It has a curious position compared to CLP625... not superior in every point, but not inferior.


YDP184 has 24 voices compared to 10, but only the CLP has the Bösendorfer. A nicer display, more amplification... but not binaural synthesis, no escapement simulation...

I thought that the Clavinova line was designed to be superior to the Arius line. With YDP184 and CLP625, things are more complicated.
Posted By: EVC2017 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 10:42 PM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I don't know about the piano situation in Brazil. Does someone else here know?


Typically price is at least doubled due import duties and internal taxes.
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/04/20 11:10 PM
I think that Yamaha Steinberg usb driver it´s a minor detail, not so relevant
You can get for cheap a Zoom UAC2 interface with (much)better latency than those Steinberg drivers, and more connections too.
For the usb ground loop, there’s a ton of options to eliminate that.

Yeah, Macmacmac
Brazil it's a sad country for those who want buy things, almost anything besides food... kkk.
Posted By: Tyr Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/05/20 01:01 AM
Quote
I didn’t know about the YDP184, which is not available in France.

Afaik the YDP184 is US only.
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/05/20 01:19 AM
Interesting comment.
Originally Posted by Otavio
Brazil it's a sad country for those who want buy things, almost anything besides food... kkk.
Some sensitive people (esp. in America) would take issue over your use of "kkk". But I doubt you intended it that way.

Even so, I'm intrigued.
I don't know much about Brazil, and perhaps even less about Brazilian Portuguese. But my daughter spent three years there and she learned quite a lot.

She shared some of those things, and among them is the notion that Portuguese does not use the letter "k". Is that true?
That's was what made me surprised at your "kkk".

BTW, her name is Becky, and she said that people there couldn't make sense of it with that errant "k".
They settled on spelling it Bequi. Pronounced "bay key", roughly. Funny stuff. smile
Posted By: EVC2017 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/05/20 02:48 AM
Mac,

About the kkkkk, is a local onomatopoeic way to represent laugh (cacacacacaca or something like that) or ROTFL. Go figure. smile

Yes, K, W and Y were not in the official portuguese alphabet when I was a kid, now they are, even though there are very few words with them in the official vocabulary (lexicon?).

Nowadays there are a lot of given names using these letters, including weird combinations, just because they look fancy.

Also, you will find a lot of English words in use, often improperly, because using English (and sometimes French) looks chic. On several stores you will see "SALE" or "50% OFF" (verbatim) instead of the Portuguese equivalent. And around here, the term "Shopping Center" (also verbatim) has been used for several decades for malls, again because in the beginning it sounded chic when the first one was opened in the 1960s.

[Linked Image]
This one is near where I live in Sao Paulo.

Several english words have become the de-facto (if not vocabulary) standard, especially on technology and IT. I am OK with that, but uses such as the "OFF" and "SALE" above are ridiculous, IMO, even though I am not xenophobic language wise.
So...what do me make of this "marketing English":

[Linked Image]

I understand the axis and I understand the straight correlation line: touch speed corresponds to note loudness and timbre (loudness and timbre going hand in hand).

So, how am I supposed to play outside the correlation line?

How am I supposed to play a fast ppp? Or a slow fff?

How am I supposed to reach "Deep Solid" and "Light"?

I know the "image is for illustration purposes only" but what is it supposed to illustrate?
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/05/20 10:13 AM
I understand the need for ‘Deep Solid’; I don’t believe anyone likes ‘Shallow Flaccid’, but who needs the ‘Warm Mellow’ when there’s always Sh*t?

And by the way, how dare they not throw in a shade of gray. Do they think we’re all happy and normal?

The “Well-Balanced Rich”, does it also work for the poor, I ask?


P.S.

I must say, this graph is highly scientific. Kudos to Yamaha!
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/05/20 10:57 AM
Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
So...what do me make of this "marketing English":

[Linked Image]

I understand the axis and I understand the straight correlation line: touch speed corresponds to note loudness and timbre (loudness and timbre going hand in hand).

So, how am I supposed to play outside the correlation line?

How am I supposed to play a fast ppp? Or a slow fff?

How am I supposed to reach "Deep Solid" and "Light"?

I know the "image is for illustration purposes only" but what is it supposed to illustrate?

I think they mean the various depths/regions of pressing the keys. For instance you can play a trill near the bottom, i.e. without releasing the keys fully which is covered by the triple sensors. However the hammer may accelerate too much bouncing between the key and the cushioning. Thus we have high velocities but shallow travel. On a real piano that won’t happen because of the backcheck. But on a digital the regular velocity detection can’t distinguish between a high velocity full-length strike and this shallow depth high velocity strike that happens due to excessive momentum gathered through repetition. Same with partial presses, etc. I think they model how a real hammer would behave depending on how deep, and where across the key travel, the keys are being pressed. I might be wrong but that’s my understanding.
Assuming you are right I assume it makes sense. 🙂

I was thinking about impulse as the physical theory in piano playing and a shorter impulse (with the same force applied) does of course transfer less energy as in the case of a shallower key travel.

So fast + long travel and fast + short travel could yield different results.
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/05/20 11:44 AM
“ where across the key travel, the keys are being pressed.”

Un fortunately, with 3 sensors, the piano only knows if the key has been hit above the first sensor or below. (below the second it can’t time a velocity).

Then it is a binary situation. Not a continuous like the Yamaha's diagram.

I am not really convinced by the explanation of Yamaha since a fff is synonymous of fast touch speed. If the acceleration has been introduced (with the timing of sensor 1 / sensor 2 and afterward sensor 2 / sensor 3), it would be clearer, but it is not the case.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/05/20 12:13 PM
I understand what CG is getting at, but assuming this is the case, the physical (punching-bag) effect is still there. So I wonder how our brains/fingers would interpret the contrast between the real physical (punching-bag) act and the simulated (modeled) result.

Let’s assume that it ‘tricks’ our brain well enough not to notice the occurring physical reality, I’m not sure I’d feel ‘comfortable’ with so much trickery (at that price-point), so yes, I’m sticking with the AvantGrand!
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/05/20 12:57 PM
Silly rabbits! That diagram has nothing to do with pianos! It's all about the variety of coffee blends.

I usually prefer Warm Mellow. But sometimes I order a cup of Well-Balanced Rich.
Posted By: Boboulus Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/05/20 01:15 PM
Originally Posted by Otavio
I think that Yamaha Steinberg usb driver it´s a minor detail, not so relevant
You can get for cheap a Zoom UAC2 interface with (much)better latency than those Steinberg drivers, and more connections too.
For the usb ground loop, there’s a ton of options to eliminate that.

Yeah, Macmacmac
Brazil it's a sad country for those who want buy things, almost anything besides food... kkk.

For me personally it’s definitely a major thing with an inbuilt usb audio device. Not having to have extra stuff around the piano is great. I can just plug in my iPad and use the apps I want with no hassle. If I upgrade to a hybrid I will go with the one that has an audio device I.e NU1X or N1X right now.
Posted By: jon123 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/05/20 02:45 PM
Originally Posted by Frédéric L
“ where across the key travel, the keys are being pressed.”

Un fortunately, with 3 sensors, the piano only knows if the key has been hit above the first sensor or below. (below the second it can’t time a velocity).

Then it is a binary situation. Not a continuous like the Yamaha's diagram.

I am not really convinced by the explanation of Yamaha since a fff is synonymous of fast touch speed. If the acceleration has been introduced (with the timing of sensor 1 / sensor 2 and afterward sensor 2 / sensor 3), it would be clearer, but it is not the case.

According to the MIDI implementation chart, it shows that key acceleration has been implemented (see the last page):
https://europe.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/4/1342334/clp785_en_mr_a0.pdf

In the manual, it also states that the Grand Expression Modeling feature is only available for the CFX and Bösendorfer voices, so it appears that this feature is not available for all the piano sounds.
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/05/20 03:04 PM
Thanks for the share about the acceleration. It appears clearer like this.

There are two ways to implement it : signal processing or blending other samples (high acceleration samples/low acceleration samples). The second option could explain the restriction to CFX and Bösendorfer.
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/05/20 03:40 PM
That’s a really interesting discovery!

Even if you have only three sensors, you can measure acceleration which is the speed difference between S1-S2 and S2-S3 speed. This can be used to create a model of key travel regions and key press depths. I’m wondering if they also increased the number of sensors.
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/05/20 03:47 PM
This could be translated into a more efficient midi controller for the Clp700 range? Or this is restricted to the internal samples ?
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/05/20 04:04 PM
@Otavio : since the acceleration is in the MIDI implementation chart, any expander/VST which supports it could use the acceleration to control the sound. However, it is the first time such a control is proposed. Then, no virtual piano is designed to use it.

Perhaps a new version of Pianoteq could be made to support the acceleration.

Making sampled based virtual pianos to support it will be hard : you have two axis (velocity/acceleration), then you need a huge number of samples, and/or a blending algorithm.

Perhaps some synthesizer (DX7 emulation...) can map the acceleration to a control which permits some creative sound control.


There is a nice video about the phrasing with the piano : https://youtu.be/JxPGkjgxCVQ

It would be interesting to have the same video made with a CLP7xx to compare.
Posted By: JackQ89 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/05/20 04:56 PM
Anyone got piano from the 700s series?
They are not available yet.

(Well, there was a CLP-760 released in 1990, a CLP-705 in 1993 and a CLP-711 in 1996. There's a sound sample of the CLP-760 so people can check if there has been any improvement in 30 years.
https://fi.yamaha.com/fi/products/contents/pianos/clavinova35th/chronicle/index.html)
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/05/20 05:40 PM
Originally Posted by Frédéric L
@Otavio : since the acceleration is in the MIDI implementation chart, any expander/VST which supports it could use the acceleration to control the sound. However, it is the first time such a control is proposed. Then, no virtual piano is designed to use it.

Perhaps a new version of Pianoteq could be made to support the acceleration.

Making sampled based virtual pianos to support it will be hard : you have two axis (velocity/acceleration), then you need a huge number of samples, and/or a blending algorithm.

Perhaps some synthesizer (DX7 emulation...) can map the acceleration to a control which permits some creative sound control.


There is a nice video about the phrasing with the piano : https://youtu.be/JxPGkjgxCVQ

It would be interesting to have the same video made with a CLP7xx to compare.


Interesting...
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/06/20 12:11 AM
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/06/20 04:07 AM
Originally Posted by JackQ89
Man Yamaha really stepped up their desigen even better than kawai.

Is the CLP-7x5 cabinet design different to that of the CLP-6x5 series?

James
x
Posted By: Nordomus Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/06/20 07:36 AM
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by JackQ89
Man Yamaha really stepped up their desigen even better than kawai.

Is the CLP-7x5 cabinet design different to that of the CLP-6x5 series?

James
x
I don't think it is.
Posted By: 9190 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/06/20 08:30 AM
Originally Posted by Otavio

This video was posted and discussed here 4 days ago.
Posted By: Kougeru Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/06/20 06:38 PM
Originally Posted by mwf
Originally Posted by Kougeru
Originally Posted by mwf
Why is everyone saying its a new action... Its the same overly heavy grandtouch, yamaha have ignored all feedback as predicted, they lost a loyal customer in me, I'll be opting for kawai now.

Or they listened to "feedback" from actual customers, thousands upon thousands that enjoyed the GrandTouch action, including many professional concert musicians. It's a simple fact that not everyone has the same tastes.

So you think there are many concert pianists out there who like the grandtouch action? As in concert pianists who practice and perform mainly on expensive high end grands that have real actions with average downweights half that approx of the GT action.... You are in fantasy land my friend, and you also think thousands and thousands love the action? You think they sold that many? I heard 1,yes there was maybe 1 'concert pianist' on this forum or who someone knew that liked the grandtouch action... You appear to have taken that info and turned it into this nonsense you have spouted...

Sorry, only saw this joke of a response right now. YOU are the one living in fantasy land.

Yes, I know several concert pianists that had no issues with the GrandTouch action. I didn't say thousands "love" the action. I said they sold thousands upon thousands and those people enjoyed it enough to not complain. This is obvious by the fact that they're still using the action. If it was really as bad of an action as people on this forum think then there would be a mass recall lol. The hate here is extremely amplified. On this forum basically anything less than a GrandFeel is unusable lol. Sometimes you guys are such elitists. I never asid anything about a concert pianist "on this forum". I don't know anyone on this forum. Ya'll are strangers to me. I would say you can ask retailers but they're obviously extremely bias in that if they sell it they'll generally say it's a good action and if they don't sell it they're likely to say otherwise. For privacy reasons I cannot name who I know. One of them is a YAMAHA artist so there may be some bias there but they were able to play top-level pieces with the instrument it's at the least not something that hampered their ability severely.

This forum may be the largest of it's kind it's still so small that we're statistically irrelevant- a few dozen active users on this specific section vs the thousands that actually buy these instruments.
"You think they sold that many?". You think they didn't? I said "thousands upon thousands" which is literally anything over around 4,000. They definitely sold more than 2,000 lol. You're ignoring reality if you don't think they sold a few thousand CLPs that used GrandTouch actions. I don't know why you're so offended by the fact that other people LIKE the action.

Lastly, "You appear to have taken that info and turned it into this nonsense you have spouted"

Don't put words in my mouth. That's vile. Maybe if you had an ounce of reading comprehension you would see that I never once mentioned anyone on this forum or hinted at such a thing. Don't put words into other people's mouth. Absolutely disgusting thing to do.
Posted By: Jitin Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/07/20 06:55 AM
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/07/20 07:12 AM
^ This video has been posted in post #1 in this thread.
Posted By: 9190 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/07/20 09:00 AM
Originally Posted by tudor33sud

Something to keep an eye on for people interested in the CLP 700 series. Maybe this will answer a couple of questions we already have

It is live now.
Posted By: 9190 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/07/20 09:26 AM
Originally Posted by 9190
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by tudor33sud
To me it seems like the display is turned off while playing...

Well, the control panel disappears, but it seems that the LCD display itself (the blue rectangle at the top of the control panel) remains turned on.

Maybe some kind of reflection. Because here we can clearly see that both the control panel and the screen turn off. And despite the fact that the screen is turned off, we still see its clear outlines, as in the video above, which can cause the feeling that the screen is turned on if there is a lot of light in the room.

So now I've got confirmation:
[Linked Image]

In addition, it was clearly shown in this video fragment:
https://youtu.be/9D2dLVgHLwc?t=421
And here as well:
https://youtu.be/9D2dLVgHLwc?t=446

Great.
And now it's over. Yamaha did answer a few questions:

Quote
- Does the control panel (both the touch buttons and the screen itself) turn off completely in CLP-775/785 during playing? Or only touch buttons?
- Yes - the screen and touch buttons on the CLP775 and 785 all turn off. The side panel goes completly black.

- I wonder if the action got lighter compared to 675 and 685?
- Good question. From my personal experience, the touch is more refined in that it is easier to have a much greater dynamic range and control.

- ​Does new Series have built-in audio interface (audio over USB)?
- Yes - there is USB audio built-in. The great feature about the USB audio - is that it is two-way. You can record audio from your CLP to the computer. You can also play audio from your computer, through your excellent CLP speakers. This is all completely digital.

- Can you tell us about the transducer of the 785 and what it is used for? Is there soundboard that is made vibrating through the transducer?
- The Transducer is attached to top of the cabinet.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/07/20 09:37 AM
‘.....the touch is more refined.....it is easier to have a much greater dynamic range and control......’

I thought they had made this claim before (with the CLP-280).

I can only assume that the 785 plays better than even an acoustic concert grand considering the CLP-280 was already ‘indistinguishable from the real thing’. If I remember correctly, it was so easy to play a trill on that instrument that the player need only think of it, and the trill beautifully played itself!
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/07/20 09:59 AM
Good one, Pete. I guess Yamaha employs politicians ... because the "answers" to two of those questions were ambiguous and useless.
I suppose "Good question" means "I'm not allowed so say anything concrete". 😄
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/07/20 10:08 AM
Someone had to ask them about the new Grand Expression Modeling...
Ooh...Grand Expression Modeling can be abbreviated as GEM. As in GeneralMusic. Maybe Yamaha bought GeneralMusic?

😉
Posted By: magicpiano Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/07/20 10:31 AM
I like very much that the display and touch buttons led turn off when you don't use it. Very elegant looking.
Posted By: Jitin Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/07/20 03:11 PM
It sounds more bright then the 600 series which is personally preferable.
I think the kawai samples may be little better, though the sound will be personal preference. But it just seems the sample quality and detail is little better on kawai ca series

Also I hope the recording was not binural... the Yamaha binural is only specific to headphones output, the samples don’t play like such through onboard speakers
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/07/20 03:30 PM
In that second video they say the action is improved. So, it's not exactly the same action as in CLP6XX series, but how/what is improved, that remains to be seen by testing. As I said, Yamaha are not known for admitting particular weak points in their previous pianos that were improved because that probably sounds bad smile They won't say "people complained about the initial friction, so we fixed it".
Posted By: Jitin Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/07/20 03:32 PM
Originally Posted by CyberGene
In that second video they say the action is improved. So, it's not exactly the same action as in CLP6XX series, but how/what is improved, that remains to be seen by testing. As I said, Yamaha are not known for admitting particular weak points in their previous pianos that were improved because that probably sounds bad smile They won't say "people complained about the initial friction, so we fixed it".

I didn't read the whole thread, but you don't think other manufacturers are like that also? (kawai, roland)
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/07/20 03:41 PM
Originally Posted by Jitin
Originally Posted by CyberGene
In that second video they say the action is improved. So, it's not exactly the same action as in CLP6XX series, but how/what is improved, that remains to be seen by testing. As I said, Yamaha are not known for admitting particular weak points in their previous pianos that were improved because that probably sounds bad smile They won't say "people complained about the initial friction, so we fixed it".

I didn't read the whole thread, but you don't think other manufacturers are like that also? (kawai, roland)

Kawai reveal more details about what has been improved in their action. They also won't directly admit about what was a weak point but would indirectly point to it. For instance in GF3 they improved the cushioning. This most probably refers to complaints about GF2 feeling too mushy. They also mentioned improving the capstan to hammer linkage (not sure how exactly they articulated it, need to find James quotes) which we already know means they replaced the faulty design with the teflon tapes leading to sticky keys.
Posted By: mwf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/07/20 03:54 PM
My god the new clp 700 series looks set to flop big time, imo clavinova have only declined in quality over the years, peaking at the clp 380 which I owned, great piano and speaker system. I would only consider kawai key beds now, much lighter and realistic and easier to play like a concert grand is. Yamaha are overly heavy with all their keyboards. Their press releases and new instrument reveals and media are a joke now, no one is surprised or slightly amazed by anything new they bring out. I dont even consider them competition to the other brands anymore, they are a joke, trash company with garbage instruments.
Posted By: Jitin Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/07/20 03:58 PM
Originally Posted by mwf
My god the new clp 700 series looks set to flop big time, imo clavinova have only declined in quality over the years, peaking at the clp 380 which I owned, great piano and speaker system. I would only consider kawai key beds now, much lighter and realistic and easier to play like a concert grand is. Yamaha are overly heavy with all their keyboards. Their press releases and new instrument reveals and media are a joke now, no one is surprised or slightly amazed by anything new they bring out. I dont even consider them competition to the other brands anymore, they are a joke, trash company with garbage instruments.

I do think they have declined to some extent, but in the other hand competitions got better like kawai and Casio even.
Roland has also declined in the sound department , maybe not action.
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/07/20 04:02 PM
Originally Posted by mwf
My god the new clp 700 series looks set to flop big time, imo clavinova have only declined in quality over the years, peaking at the clp 380 which I owned, great piano and speaker system. I would only consider kawai key beds now, much lighter and realistic and easier to play like a concert grand is. Yamaha are overly heavy with all their keyboards. Their press releases and new instrument reveals and media are a joke now, no one is surprised or slightly amazed by anything new they bring out. I dont even consider them competition to the other brands anymore, they are a joke, trash company with garbage instruments.

Kawai! Kawai! Kawai! Kawai are the best digital pianos in the world. Period!
Posted By: Jitin Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/07/20 04:09 PM
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by mwf
My god the new clp 700 series looks set to flop big time, imo clavinova have only declined in quality over the years, peaking at the clp 380 which I owned, great piano and speaker system. I would only consider kawai key beds now, much lighter and realistic and easier to play like a concert grand is. Yamaha are overly heavy with all their keyboards. Their press releases and new instrument reveals and media are a joke now, no one is surprised or slightly amazed by anything new they bring out. I dont even consider them competition to the other brands anymore, they are a joke, trash company with garbage instruments.

Kawai! Kawai! Kawai! Kawai are the best digital pianos in the world. Period!

Hmm I think it might be true LOL 😂.
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/07/20 04:12 PM
@mwf: I must have to admit that I was surprised by the key acceleration measure done to control better the sound. I don’t know other models which does that. Then Yes, the CLP700 did surprise me.

That said, I am looking forward to a demo of a CLP700 like the one I have published (done on an acoustic grand). See https://youtu.be/JxPGkjgxCVQ


Isn’t the CLP380 an AWM piano ? Then a tone generator which switches layers among few of them (5) with no blending... I am sure Yamaha has progressed since this model.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/07/20 04:25 PM
I’ve decided to set the ASP (actual selling price) for the new Clavinova CLP-785 PE at $4,000 out the door.

I have tried very hard to rate it higher, but as it stands, the GOP (gross over-the-top publicity) does not hold up with expectations.

I will revise my score in three years’ time (885), but at this moment not a penny more! (Oh, and the purchase must include a free Jansen bench). grin
Posted By: Jitin Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/07/20 04:26 PM
Originally Posted by Frédéric L
@mwf: I must have to admit that I was surprised by the key acceleration measure done to control better the sound. I don’t know other models which does that. Then Yes, the CLP700 did surprise me.

That said, I am looking forward to a demo of a CLP700 like the one I have published (done on an acoustic grand). See https://youtu.be/JxPGkjgxCVQ


Isn’t the CLP380 an AWM piano ? Then a tone generator which switches layers among few of them (5) with no blending... I am sure Yamaha has progressed since this model.
Are you Graham Fich , the artist in the video?
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/07/20 04:37 PM
GOP ? Perhaps, but Yamaha is not the only brand to be emphatic.


Let’s guess who wrote ;

The ***** Series is transforming all notions of how good is a digital piano can be. The ****** Series models combine the very latest in digital technology with the most advanced action to beautifully capture the essence of playing a fine concert grand piano. Play our ****** Series instruments to understand why they are among the most award-wining digital pianos in the industry.

Hint : ***** should not be replaced by an hybrid Series as it seems to be.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/07/20 05:07 PM
I have to admit: I grew up thinking I was eating the ‘best hotdog in the world’ at my local diner because they had a big sign saying so; turns out the hotdogs were made from leftover pig-guts and bald-chicken arse. I later found out the diner was shut down by authorities for health and sanitation violations and, as it turns out, for selling the worst hotdog on the planet.

The brain can easily be conditioned to perceive a reality that isn’t there; which is why manufacturers bombard us with signs/symbols and all sorts of subliminal.....

“Look at the watch ticktock.....you will love the 785; RGE2 (better than 1); modeled (it’s science, stupid); screen goes black (the universe is black); etc..... laugh
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/07/20 05:18 PM
I don’t value much the screen which goes black. But some other did it here and are unhappy with Kawai piano with an illuminated screen at the left.

Read here in 2017 :

Quote
3/ Have a 'Totally Black Screen' option - One of the things I really liked about the other Kawais was that they had a physical black flap that came down over the screen, so that when you are actually playing, the screen isn't visible and it feels like simply playing a 'normal' acoustic piano. Would be a real shame to lose that feeling. So would be good to have the option of a totally black screen (or maybe match the colour of the piano! So white if the piano was coloured white, oak coloured for oak etc) so that the screen 'disappears' while playing.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/07/20 05:24 PM
....yes, but then there’s a thing called ‘transducers’. That sounds highly sophisticated and futuristic; you know, like “Transformers” (yes, they can transform into all sorts of things). grin
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/07/20 05:26 PM
Originally Posted by Jitin
Are you Graham Fich , the artist in the video?
I wish I was, but unfortunately...

I quoted this video because it is the only one which compare the sound of the piano with different phrasings. And I am sure that Yamaha try to reproduce them with measuring the acceleration to control the sound.

I would be Graham Fich, I would certainly wait for a CLP700 coming in my nearest piano store, and try to reproduce what was demonstrated. But unfortunately....
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/07/20 05:47 PM
This could well be a sales pitch from any piano. Any piano at all!
Even a cheap 61-key battery operated Casio from the 1980s.
Bullcrud is everywhere, in all piano sales literature, through all history!
Originally Posted by Frédéric L
Let’s guess who wrote:

The *** Series is transforming all notions of how good is a digital piano can be.
The *** Series models combine the very latest in digital technology with the most advanced action to beautifully capture the essence of playing a fine concert grand piano.
Play our *** Series instruments to understand why they are among the most award-wining digital pianos in the industry.

I'm surprised they didn't include portraits of famous piano composers, alongside the claim that Chopin and Liszt would be pleased with the performance of these fine pianos!
Posted By: QuasiUnaFantasia Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/07/20 06:09 PM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I'm surprised they didn't include portraits of famous piano composers, alongside the claim that Chopin and Liszt would be pleased with the performance of these fine pianos!

They might still do that, if not now then for some later version (and actually, I think both of those gentlemen would have been enthused to play a modern day CLP ... or one from twenty years ago, for that matter). smile
Posted By: Karim 888 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/07/20 07:02 PM
😂😂😂, hold your horses mac. For me I am quite optimistic that the new clp 700 series is better than the old 600 series but not by far. But they sound good in the video especially the 785
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/07/20 07:22 PM
To be sure the CLP700 will be loved by Chopin, they added some fortepiano sound. wink
On the "35 years of Clavinova" page Yamaha's marketing had to come up with nice things to say about some older models.

In the 80's they already "recreated the sound and keyboard touch of a grand piano" and it was "like playing in a concert hall or live performance club".

Later in the 80's they "faithfully recreated the grand piano sound [...] from the subtle attack heard when pressing a key to the rich reverberations and beautiful lingering sounds before the sound naturally decays".

In the 90's they "made an expansive sound with depth and richness like that of a grand piano" and "key touch was even closer than before to that of a grand piano".

Later in the 90's they "even more faithfully recreated the grand piano sound and touch" and "the expressiveness of the Clavinova evolved to a new stage".

Year 2001 "brought the Clavinova line as close as possible to the sound and feel of a grand piano".

So I guess after that there was nothing to improve then. And yet we got new models.

(https://fi.yamaha.com/fi/products/contents/pianos/clavinova35th/chronicle/index.html)

My point? None really. Just an observation.
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/07/20 07:44 PM
Did these blurbs come with hip boots and a shovel?
Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
On the "35 years of Clavinova" page Yamaha's marketing had to come up with nice things to say about some older models.

In the 80's they already "recreated the sound and keyboard touch of a grand piano" and it was "like playing in a concert hall or live performance club".

Later in the 80's they "faithfully recreated the grand piano sound [...] from the subtle attack heard when pressing a key to the rich reverberations and beautiful lingering sounds before the sound naturally decays".

In the 90's they "made an expansive sound with depth and richness like that of a grand piano" and "key touch was even closer than before to that of a grand piano".

Later in the 90's they "even more faithfully recreated the grand piano sound and touch" and "the expressiveness of the Clavinova evolved to a new stage".

Year 2001 "brought the Clavinova line as close as possible to the sound and feel of a grand piano".

So I guess after that there was nothing to improve then. And yet we got new models.

(https://fi.yamaha.com/fi/products/contents/pianos/clavinova35th/chronicle/index.html)

My point? None really. Just an observation.
Posted By: Karim 888 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/07/20 07:56 PM
😂😂😂. Believe me mac they sound good in the video especially the clp 785. Don't take a rash decision my friend until you test them
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/07/20 08:13 PM
A 35th year retrospective is a style exercice... we can’t expect a “1983 : sorry guys, the ROM was quite expensive and we manage badly to imitate roughly the grand piano with whatever was accessible” It would be quite funny too.

Surely a 1983 Yamaha DP, FM based like they said was quite far from the acoustic piano compared with our nowadays sampled pianos.

I don’t know when a hammer action was released. It is surely an advance about the keyboard. I do remember having to play on a Roland stage piano (FP7 ?) with no or too light hammers, I didn’t like it.
Posted By: Jitin Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/07/20 10:52 PM
I think the best sales pitch I heard was for the p125 , how the angle right front of the pianos row of buttons , is inspired by cfx.
lol 😂 🤣
Posted By: fakeChopin Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/07/20 11:10 PM
Arguing marketing won’t help us to decide which piano is good. How about hearing from actual experienced pianists who have played a variety of acoustic and digital piano to tell us their opinions of the Clavinovas over the years?
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/07/20 11:50 PM
The most ‘honest’ marketing ever published by Yamaha went a little like this:

“Sorry guys, the ROM was quite expensive and we manage badly to imitate roughly the grand piano with whatever was accessible”. wink

This brought tears to my eyes. If only they would do this today.

‘Sorry guys, RGE2 is basically the same as RGE, but in our defense, RGE is already very good’.
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/08/20 12:05 AM
Originally Posted by mwf
My god the new clp 700 series looks set to flop big time, imo clavinova have only declined in quality over the years, peaking at the clp 380 which I owned, great piano and speaker system. I would only consider kawai key beds now, much lighter and realistic and easier to play like a concert grand is. Yamaha are overly heavy with all their keyboards. Their press releases and new instrument reveals and media are a joke now, no one is surprised or slightly amazed by anything new they bring out. I dont even consider them competition to the other brands anymore, they are a joke, trash company with garbage instruments.

mwf, you are, of course, entitled to your opinion. However, from what I have seen and heard, the CLP-700 series represent a nice, steady improvement over the previous generation instruments. I also wholeheartedly disagree with the second half of your post.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/08/20 02:02 AM
I don't know when I'll be able to re-visit my Sam Ash.
They had several 600-series pianos last time. I presume they'll eventually have the 700-series.

But ... will these have improved enough so that we won't need virtual instruments anymore?
Because the latter are so far ahead of what I've heard in digital pianos that I'm not holding my breath waiting for a piano to match them.
Still, I wish they would/could. I'd be happy to cut the cord.
Posted By: R111 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/08/20 03:32 AM
Another video that mentions that they have improved the action (around the 12:00 mark):


I remember trying the previous version and deciding that the action needed to change.
Posted By: impossiblejj Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/08/20 07:30 AM
Originally Posted by R111
Another video that mentions that they have improved the action (around the 12:00 mark):


I remember trying the previous version and deciding that the action needed to change.

Is it legal to kill people for such thing which they did during last few minutes of music? I lack words to describe this cheap criminal.
Posted By: EssBrace Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/08/20 07:56 AM
Originally Posted by mwf
My god the new clp 700 series looks set to flop big time, imo clavinova have only declined in quality over the years, peaking at the clp 380 which I owned, great piano and speaker system. I would only consider kawai key beds now, much lighter and realistic and easier to play like a concert grand is. Yamaha are overly heavy with all their keyboards. Their press releases and new instrument reveals and media are a joke now, no one is surprised or slightly amazed by anything new they bring out. I dont even consider them competition to the other brands anymore, they are a joke, trash company with garbage instruments.

Wow.

You've got issues.

What's this trend for expressing everything in such absolute terms? No nuance, no subtlety. No effort whatsoever to acknowledge an opposing view. It's a sign of the times I suppose. Depressing.

Neither you, nor anyone else on this forum, has played the new Yamahas. With that FACT in mind why don't you re-read your post and ponder whether or not it was a reasonable thing to say?
Posted By: 9190 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/08/20 10:26 AM
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Wow.
You've got issues.

This is exactly what I thought when I read that post. So much hatred, expression, vivid epithets, which instantly make such kind of posts worthless for me, and the person writing it simply ceases to be taken seriously (to paraphrase his phrase "they are a joke" I would say "this post is a joke"). Especially if the person has recently bought Nord, but continues to follow the topic of Yamaha, where he considers it his duty to state once again that "Yamaha is bad" (is he trying to convince someone or himself of this? Or is it something personal between him and Yamaha?). I was only surprised that some were still trying to discuss with him after that, which is useless, since here is a hopeless case.
Posted By: Tyr Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/08/20 11:22 AM
According to the linked videos, i don't hear anything new in the sound generation. It could have been recorded by the 6xx model series and i wouldn't notice it.
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/08/20 11:32 AM
Originally Posted by Tyr
According to the linked videos, i don't hear anything new in the sound generation. It could have been recorded by the 6xx model series and i wouldn't notice it.

To calibrate our ears and be on the same page, were you able to hear the vast improvements in the CA79/99 piano sound compared to the NV5?
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/08/20 12:16 PM
Posted By: QuasiUnaFantasia Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/08/20 12:43 PM
By the way, despite the flippant comments and occasionally venom-dripping remarks in this thread, I don't think Yamaha would be very worried if they were made aware of it. The fact that the thread has over 250 posts and more than 7000 views, even if the actual release of the 700 series is still a couple of months away, speaks volumes about the interest and anticipation around the new series.
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/08/20 12:48 PM
We live in a bubble here smile There are some discussions, talks, battles, teams, preferences, praises, hate... I mean it certainly looks like the life is going on and we represent the entire world. Nope! We're just a tiny (closed?) society that is 0% representative for the real life digital piano buyer laugh And our reality is so twisted and distorted, Yamaha couldn't care less about us. That's the painful truth.
Posted By: Tyr Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/08/20 01:04 PM
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by Tyr
According to the linked videos, i don't hear anything new in the sound generation. It could have been recorded by the 6xx model series and i wouldn't notice it.

To calibrate our ears and be on the same page, were you able to hear the vast improvements in the CA79/99 piano sound compared to the NV5?

Never sat down at a CA79/99 nor i had listened to a recording of them.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/08/20 01:17 PM
I believe we need the ‘flippant-venom-dripping’ alongside the flowery utopian kumbaya.

No, the new Clavs aren’t as bad as the worst comments suggest, but they’re also not as good as Yamaha claims. It’s as simple as that. This should be obvious to even the most naive out there. I don’t think someone looking for info here (newbie) will resolutely take Pete’s claims/comments as the gospel of all gospel; if so, that person has bigger problems that need further evaluation and treatment. crazy

We must -collectively- take everything with huge chunks of salt; if not, we risk paying thousands of dollars for a Gucci bag because, you know, Gucci says so..........it’s a freaking bag, for God’s sake!
(Sylvie medium crocodile top handle Gucci bag: $34,000). Is this the world we want our children to inherit, I ask?

If we only keep the flowery we are doing a disservice to the global community and making it easier for Yamaha and friends to sail along the path of BS without soiling themselves in the process.

Corporations are not people! We need to constantly remind them of that and treat them accordingly! grin
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/12/20 01:29 PM
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/12/20 01:51 PM
Why do salesmen keep on mentioning how when you play harder the sound gets louder? When was the last digital piano released without dynamic keys? Was there one ever?
Posted By: Doug M. Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/12/20 01:55 PM
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by mwf
My god the new clp 700 series looks set to flop big time, IMO clavinova have only declined in quality over the years, peaking at the clp 380 which I owned, great piano and speaker system. I would only consider kawai key beds now, much lighter and realistic and easier to play like a concert grand is. Yamaha are overly heavy with all their keyboards. Their press releases and new instrument reveals and media are a joke now, no one is surprised or slightly amazed by anything new they bring out. I don't even consider them competition to the other brands anymore, they are a joke, trash company with garbage instruments.

Kawai! Kawai! Kawai! Kawai are the best digital pianos in the world. Period!

@mwf,
I certainly love my Kawai but i think Yamaha CLP pianos have some strong points too: the quality of their amplification, the binaural sampling with it's sound clarity. I agree that the action on the Yamaha is heavier, but some like it heavy.

Going to reserve my judgement of the CLP785 till after I've played it: Yamaha binaural sampling always sounds better to play than they sound on YouTube.

As for their marketing: I'd like to know what is the difference between VRM and GEM. I mean, modelling is modelling, so why create a new abbreviation for the modelling different aspects of the piano.
At the end of the day, it's still hybrid binaural sampling/modelling, just that they've extended the modelling to cover more parameters.
With tongue firmly in cheek: Yamaha is edging towards modeling like a child does to a swimming pool; alternatively, It's like the human which is slowly becoming more and more of a Cyborg (*or a CyberBorg TM.). At some point, the last vestige of sampling will disappear in the year 2100 lol.

If it carries on like this, there will be soon a long list of abbreviations for every aspect of an acoustic piano modeled on a Clavinova. At least they don't obfuscate as well as Roland do.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/12/20 02:08 PM
“....sampling will disappear in the year 2100.....”

Sampling has at most a decade and then it’s done (probably sooner).
Now, it won’t completely disappear because, after all, who wants to model a barking dog, a door bell, or a whistle? For these things sampling will remain; however, for musical instruments......NO!
Posted By: Doug M. Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/12/20 02:16 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
“....sampling will disappear in the year 2100.....”

Sampling has at most a decade and then it’s done (probably sooner).
Now, it won’t completely disappear because, after all, who wants to model a barking dog, a door bell, or a whistle? For these things sampling will remain; however, for musical instruments......NO!

That's how I felt in 2009 lol
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/12/20 02:16 PM
In regards to modeling: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_cow
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/12/20 02:17 PM
GeneralMusic with their GEM does the same : Natural String Resonance, Filter Algorithm Dynamic Emulation, Advanced Release Technology and Damper Physical Model...

The different keywords are made to mean that digital piano makers do something more than the last time.

Even if Yamaha introduce what they call « modelling », I think it is quite far from pure modelling. It is not the same thing to filter a sample (I suppose Grand Expression Modelling does this), than to build a signal from scratch (sine functions and others...). Then a « modelling » enhancement doesn’t mean a direction toward getting rid of samples. One of the main drawback of sampling is the amount of memory needed to store unlooped samples. It won’t be an issue in 2100.
Posted By: EVC2017 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/12/20 02:30 PM
In 2100, besides most if not all of us being comfortably dead, thus not giving a damn about the technology being used by then, and assuming there will still be humans in the world, most probably all of the techologies currently will be more than obsolete and they will think "how in the heck they did not figure out this technology we use now, it is so obvious!"
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/12/20 02:41 PM
I will not be dead by 2100!

I plan on uploading my consciousness onto the ‘cloud’; I will then exist forever in the virtual realm and will still be able to interact with outdated -biological- entities.

Yes, I will be able to fly past the sky, the stratosphere, and the stars; whilst biological entities sit in their cubicles and wonder “why can’t I fly past the sky like Pete”? Well, you missed out on the opportunity to upload when it presented itself, so yes, now you’re stuck being you; whereas, I can be anyone/anything I want! grin
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/12/20 02:50 PM
Sampling won't die on its own. Modeling will have to be better before sampling goes away. So far modeling fails at that.

Notice that only Roland and Pianoteq use modeling. Are there others? If so it's still a minority.
So even the piano makers and VST makers have little faith in modeling. They use it only to fill in "gaps".
Posted By: terminaldegree Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/12/20 02:51 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
I will not be dead by 2100!

I plan on uploading my consciousness onto the ‘cloud’; I will then exist forever in the virtual realm and will still be able to interact with outdated -biological- entities.

Okay, so we've figured out who's been watching "Upload" on Amazon during the pandemic...
Posted By: EVC2017 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/12/20 02:51 PM
Pete, after watching Altered Carbon, I am pretty sure I would choose NOT to pursue this path. wink
Posted By: Doug M. Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/12/20 02:56 PM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Sampling won't die on its own. Modeling will have to be better before sampling goes away. So far modeling fails at that.

Notice that only Roland and Pianoteq use modeling. Are there others? If so it's still a minority.
So even the piano makers and VST makers have little faith in modeling. They use it only to fill in "gaps".

There is probably quite a knowledge gap to climb in order to implement that level/quality of modeling. Maybe if someone invents another approach that has massive advantages, we'll see a different competitor entering the marketing.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/12/20 03:00 PM
I’m sticking with Kurzweil on this one!

Adios, amigos! (Well, not yet; but when the day arrives I will utter those words with absolute joy).




P.S.

I’m not familiar with “Altered Carbon”, or “Upload”. blush
Posted By: QuasiUnaFantasia Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/12/20 03:11 PM
Originally Posted by Doug M.
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Sampling won't die on its own. Modeling will have to be better before sampling goes away. So far modeling fails at that.

Notice that only Roland and Pianoteq use modeling. Are there others? If so it's still a minority.
So even the piano makers and VST makers have little faith in modeling. They use it only to fill in "gaps".

There is probably quite a knowledge gap to climb in order to implement that level/quality of modeling. Maybe if someone invents another approach that has massive advantages, we'll see a different competitor entering the marketing.

I wonder whether the biggest sticking issue with modelling is modelling of reverberation. I have tried running Pianoteq, without any of its own reverb, through my Yamaha AV-Receiver with its sampled reverb, and the result is a heck of a lot more believable than Pianoteq left to its own devices.["Heck" in the previous sentence was a political correctness forced by Pianoworld. smile ]

Originally Posted by Pete14
I’m sticking with Kurzweil on this one!

Adios, amigos! (Well, not yet; but when the day arrives I will utter those words with absolute joy).

P.S.

I’m not familiar with “Altered Carbon”, or “Upload”. blush

How about "Lawnmover man"? smile
Posted By: Almaviva Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/12/20 05:53 PM
I spoke to Hugh Sung at Cunningham Piano about the CLP-700 series, especially the CLP785. He said it was too soon to know the changes (if any) to the action, pedals or speaker/amp system, but he told me about three new features. One, the touchscreen control panel. Two, binaural sampling for the Bosendorfer Imperial sound sample. (Beforehand only the Yamaha CFX sample was binaural.) Three, some fortepiano samples - of interest to pianists who would like to know what Late-Baroque, Galante, Classical and Early-Romantic piano music sounded like in their respective eras.

Hugh also said that the new pianos won't be available in stores until late August at the earliest.
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/12/20 06:11 PM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Sampling won't die on its own. Modeling will have to be better before sampling goes away. So far modeling fails at that.

Notice that only Roland and Pianoteq use modeling. Are there others? If so it's still a minority.
So even the piano makers and VST makers have little faith in modeling. They use it only to fill in "gaps".

I agree. Sampling on a digital piano will progress since memory will become cheaper and cheaper. Then piano makers will have fewer incentives to go to the modelling path. Unlooped samples on digital piano or synthesisers does exist now (Kronos, GEWA).

This doesn’t exclude some kind of modelling (resonance, key acceleration handling...) but the basis remains a sample.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/12/20 07:30 PM
“How about "Lawnmover man"?”


“That movie is up there with the very best“. A direct quote from James Cameron!
Spielberg also lauded the acting and the “superb” special effects.

This is truly a cinematic event that stands alone at the very top of the genre; but I ask, is it science fiction or is it simply science reinterpreted through the prism of an artist? smirk
Black Mirror!

Many episodes of consciousness uploading...

...with pretty bad results.
Posted By: EVC2017 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/12/20 08:34 PM
Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
Black Mirror!

Many episodes of consciousness uploading...

...with pretty bad results.

I do not remember any with this theme, though it must have. I remember well the first one (very disgusting), the one with Bryce Dallas, the Metalhead one (favorite of mine) and the one of the museum I did not have the guts to watch beyond half.

EDIT: Oh, and the one with the "bad scenes blurred by mom"(very good also).
Posted By: EssBrace Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/13/20 12:03 PM
Originally Posted by Doug M.
Going to reserve my judgement of the CLP785 till after I've played it...

What a crazy idea. You've really lost it this time. This is clearly a non-PW compliant approach. I'm thinking maybe you should be banned.

So come along Doug. You KNOW how it's done on PW...

Pass judgment NOW. You don't need experience or any evidence to support whatever statements you might wish to make about these new pianos. Just pontificate now. Make baseless assumptions. Do it now. Condemn. Ridicule the maker. Act NOW to poison everyone's mind. Time is running out. Plunge the knife in right up to the hilt. It's no fun otherwise.
Posted By: Doug M. Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/13/20 12:59 PM
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by Doug M.
Going to reserve my judgement of the CLP785 till after I've played it...

What a crazy idea. You've really lost it this time. This is clearly a non-PW compliant approach. I'm thinking maybe you should be banned.

So come along Doug. You KNOW how it's done on PW...

Pass judgment NOW. You don't need experience or any evidence to support whatever statements you might wish to make about these new pianos. Just pontificate now. Make baseless assumptions. Do it now. Condemn. Ridicule the maker. Act NOW to poison everyone's mind. Time is running out. Plunge the knife in right up to the hilt. It's no fun otherwise.

Problem with that is that I liked the CLP685 a lot.
So unless they ruin it, the only complaint will be: is the upgrade really worth it?!
I'm getting right behind the Yamaha now, so that I can stab it in the back later when it disappoints me like the Roland LX708 did (Roland in the sin bin).
Posted By: EssBrace Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/13/20 01:11 PM
Originally Posted by Doug M.
I'm getting right behind the Yamaha now, so that I can stab it in the back later when it disappoints me like the Roland LX708 did (Roland in the sin bin).

Tut tut tut. Sorry, but such a rational approach will not go down well here. Why wait? - just stab it in the back (and front, top, bottom and sides) now.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/13/20 01:21 PM
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by Doug M.
Going to reserve my judgement of the CLP785 till after I've played it...

What a crazy idea. You've really lost it this time. This is clearly a non-PW compliant approach. I'm thinking maybe you should be banned.

So come along Doug. You KNOW how it's done on PW...

Pass judgment NOW. You don't need experience or any evidence to support whatever statements you might wish to make about these new pianos. Just pontificate now. Make baseless assumptions. Do it now. Condemn. Ridicule the maker. Act NOW to poison everyone's mind. Time is running out. Plunge the knife in right up to the hilt. It's no fun otherwise.

If I didn’t know you any better, I’d say you’re being sarcastic; am I right in this observation?

If you’re not being sarcastic, then I fully agree with you: stab them MOFO’s right where it hurts! grin



P.S.

And now I take cover!
Posted By: EssBrace Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/13/20 10:20 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
If I didn’t know you any better, I’d say you’re being sarcastic; am I right in this observation?

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/13/20 11:39 PM
wink
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/14/20 01:18 AM
[Linked Image] [Linked Image] [Linked Image]
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/14/20 02:27 AM
grin
Posted By: EPW Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/14/20 03:16 AM
So I have to ask now does the new CLP series come with the hammer and nail or is only in the smart app LOL
Posted By: sullivang Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/14/20 03:51 AM
Can't wait to check out the "Grand Expression" thing. Bored with tri-sensor - need something new. laugh

Greg
Posted By: Tyr Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/14/20 07:23 AM
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by Doug M.
I'm getting right behind the Yamaha now, so that I can stab it in the back later when it disappoints me like the Roland LX708 did (Roland in the sin bin).

Tut tut tut. Sorry, but such a rational approach will not go down well here. Why wait? - just stab it in the back (and front, top, bottom and sides) now.

Opinions are opinions. I for myself can live with that. No need to be salty because other people like things that i don't like.
Posted By: Doug M. Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/14/20 09:20 AM
Originally Posted by Tyr
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by Doug M.
I'm getting right behind the Yamaha now, so that I can stab it in the back later when it disappoints me like the Roland LX708 did (Roland in the sin bin).

Tut tut tut. Sorry, but such a rational approach will not go down well here. Why wait? - just stab it in the back (and front, top, bottom and sides) now.

Opinions are opinions. I for myself can live with that. No need to be salty because other people like things that i don't like.

A don't mind being 'Asalted' for shits and giggles lol
Posted By: Doug M. Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/14/20 09:32 AM
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by Doug M.
I'm getting right behind the Yamaha now, so that I can stab it in the back later when it disappoints me like the Roland LX708 did (Roland in the sin bin).

Tut tut tut. Sorry, but such a rational approach will not go down well here. Why wait? - just stab it in the back (and front, top, bottom and sides) now.

You know what they say: you have to get right behind someone in order to stab them in the back
fyi
Quote
"The first stage is to express absolute support.' The reason,...is that you must never be on the record saying that somebody is no good. You must be seen as their friend. After all,...it is necessary to get behind someone before you can stab them in the back.---Sir Humphrey Appleby in Yes Prime Minister, (episode: A conflict of interest)

Or to quote Joni Mitchell...
I've looked at Yamaha's from both sides now
From up and down, and still somehow
It's Binuaral illusions I recall
I really don't know 'the number of velocity levels' at all

lol, all in jest, I of course expect the CLP785 to be annoyingly good without being ground breaking i.e., compared to the competition, that is, until some competitor makes a leap forward in amplification quality and in the sample clarity (to match the binaural sampling technology).

Still, I think there will be room for improvement in the expressiveness, the warmth of the sample tone, and the action. Can't wait to try the CLP785 and the Kawai CA99/Novus5/10.
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/14/20 05:09 PM
Posted By: QuasiUnaFantasia Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/14/20 05:36 PM
Originally Posted by Otavio

I didn't understand a word they were saying; it was all in Japanese! Thank god it was subtitled!

Incidentally, the little we actually heard of the piano sound did not entice me one bit. It sounded tinny and toyish.
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/14/20 05:37 PM
Couldn't understand a word laugh The only person on this forum that I think might know Japanese is James but he will deceive us!
Posted By: Nordomus Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/14/20 06:30 PM
I don't know about the sound itself but resonances sound pretty good.
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/14/20 06:56 PM
I speak a little Chinese. I think she said that the new 700-series has new and improved chrome trim, shoulder pads, whitewall tires, and a pair of his-and-her cup holders.
Posted By: EPW Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/14/20 07:00 PM
What about the Japanese massage. I'm not buying if that isn't included LOL
Posted By: Almaviva Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/15/20 02:58 AM
I just spoke this afternoon to Rich Galassini at Cunningham Pianos. The differences between the old CLP685 and the new CLP785 are very modest. The new model has a touchscreen control panel. The new model also has four fortepiano samples - "Scarlatti", "Mozart", "Beethoven" and "Chopin". Finally, the Yamaha CFX and Bosendorfer Imperial sounds on the new model have binaural headphone sampling; the old model had binaural sampling on just the CFX sound.

Other than that, the CLP685 and CLP785 are pretty much identical; no changes at all to the action, pedals and sound system. Some of the less expensive CLP-600 models have been discontinued and not replaced by CLP-700 models. Some of the actions in the less-expensive CLP-700 models have been changed from their CLP-600 counterparts.

As I said earlier, the changes between the two series are very modest. Which is just as well, since I own a CLP685! smile
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/15/20 03:37 AM
Originally Posted by Almaviva
no changes at all to the action
Arguably the most important information. That's going to be a real bummer.
Posted By: robinlb Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/15/20 03:46 AM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I speak a little Chinese. I think she said that the new 700-series has new and improved chrome trim, shoulder pads, whitewall tires, and a pair of his-and-her cup holders.

I like to visit PW, one of the important reasons is that I can often see your wonderful comments, Mac laugh
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/15/20 06:46 AM
Originally Posted by Almaviva
Other than that, the CLP685 and CLP785 are pretty much identical; no changes at all to the action, pedals and sound system.

According to the Yamaha site (which is not clear) and the MIDI implementation chart, the new sound system system is sensitive to the key acceleration.

Note : the lecture http://www.speech.kth.se/prod/publications/files/qpsr/1991/1991_32_4_019-034.pdf has a conclusion about the difference of timbre between a staccato and a legato. Then it makes sense to measure velocity AND acceleration.
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/15/20 08:06 AM
So not much changes. As expected.

The addition of four more samples could be good. But ...

If they added more sample memory for the new voices, I'd rather they skipped the voices, and instead used the memory for improving the two existing voices.

If they did not add more sample memory to accommodate the new voices ... frown
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/15/20 08:22 AM
I wouldn’t trust what the dealer told a customer who recently bought a CLP-685 from his store smile First, the new pianos are not yet at most dealers and dealers rarely know anything besides the brochure information. And second, of course the dealer will say “I didn’t sell you an inferior piano”. Let’s see how the dealer will advertise the CLP-785 to a person who’s there in the store and chooses between it and a used CLP-685 on the Internet 😁
Posted By: Karim 888 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/15/20 10:13 AM
Yes it's completely true and added to this that yamaha said in the 15 minutes video improved grand action so yamaha is a big company and when they said improved action so we should trust them even if it's a slight improvement but the result is the same which is improved action.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/15/20 10:18 AM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
If they added more sample memory for the new voices, I'd rather they skipped the voices, and instead used the memory for improving the two existing voices.

If they did not add more sample memory to accommodate the new voices ... frown

I’m thinking they probably did not add more ‘memory’ space for the so-called new pianos. It shows how these manufacturers are simply playing games with us.
These ‘period’ pianos are a gimmick. The truth is that the charm of these instruments extends beyond the sound: Narrower keys, smaller frames, overall different building-materials and other aspects unique to their corresponding time periods.

Yamaha has simply captured (I assume) one component, so it won’t be much more than gimmicky presets, but guess what, they know this trick sells.
Posted By: EssBrace Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/15/20 12:36 PM
Originally Posted by CyberGene
I wouldn’t trust what the dealer told a customer who recently bought a CLP-685 from his store smile First, the new pianos are not yet at most dealers and dealers rarely know anything besides the brochure information. And second, of course the dealer will say “I didn’t sell you an inferior piano”. Let’s see how the dealer will advertise the CLP-785 to a person who’s there in the store and chooses between it and a used CLP-685 on the Internet 😁

I have to say these were my thoughts too. And having watched Rich and/or Hugh in some of their videos they never really say anything meaningful (and certainly there's never even a whiff of criticism) - about anything. It's all just super-polite, syrupy guff.
Posted By: Tyr Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/15/20 01:58 PM
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Let’s see how the dealer will advertise the CLP-785 to a person who’s there in the store and chooses between it and a used CLP-685 on the Internet 😁

I think the result will be the same like this:

Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/15/20 05:24 PM
I'm sure I'll need to borrow this phrase ... smile
Originally Posted by EssBrace
It's all just super-polite, syrupy guff.
Posted By: EssBrace Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/15/20 10:32 PM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I'm sure I'll need to borrow this phrase ... smile
Originally Posted by EssBrace
It's all just super-polite, syrupy guff.

Ha! Please do!
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/16/20 12:42 AM
Originally Posted by EssBrace
It's all just super-polite, syrupy guff.

Are you using the Scottish (?) interpretation of "guff"? wink

James
x
Posted By: EssBrace Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/16/20 08:34 AM
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by EssBrace
It's all just super-polite, syrupy guff.

Are you using the Scottish (?) interpretation of "guff"? wink

James
x

Erm...guff as in 'nonsense'.

But yes I'm not sure whether it's a Scottish useage but when I was at school there was a different meaning if someone had 'guffed'!

Thanks for seeking clarity on this important matter James.
Posted By: magicpiano Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/16/20 11:40 AM
Originally Posted by Tyr
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Let’s see how the dealer will advertise the CLP-785 to a person who’s there in the store and chooses between it and a used CLP-685 on the Internet 😁

I think the result will be the same like this:

Nice sound and nice playing (when he starts to play about 8:36). In the above video I think he doesn't use any reverb, so we can hear the clean samples without alterations. That's good.
IMHO Yamaha piano samples on their DPs are very well balanced. Honestly, I would not feel the need to use a VST on such a Yamaha DP.
I especially like how they sound in the lower octaves. Rich, but not overly-bass (unlike most Roland) and no exaggerated volume on the first octaves (unlike most Kawai).
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/16/20 12:54 PM
They need to put some dsp in these pianos for top class effects, like convolution reverbs, good parallel compression and a multiband graphic eq
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/16/20 01:32 PM
The 88 keys take up over four feet of space. There's no room for those extra features! smile
Originally Posted by Otavio
They need to put some dsp in these pianos for top class effects, like convolution reverbs, good parallel compression and a multiband graphic eq
But seriously ...
No acoustic piano has those features. If the goal is to mimic a grand piano, then there no place for any of those items.
Posted By: magicpiano Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/16/20 01:48 PM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
The 88 keys take up over four feet of space. There's no room for those extra features! smile
Originally Posted by Otavio
They need to put some dsp in these pianos for top class effects, like convolution reverbs, good parallel compression and a multiband graphic eq
But seriously ...
No acoustic piano has those features. If the goal is to mimic a grand piano, then there no place for any of those items.
I agree, if you play from internal/external speakers it's better to disable reverb effects, because they alter the original sound of the notes and the natural reverb of your room. But with headphones a little reverb is good and makes the sound more realistic, because with headphones you cannot hear natural ambience resonances, being that the sound goes directly to your ears.
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/16/20 05:56 PM
Since headphones samples are binaural, Yamaha could (should?) have recorded a minimum of natural reverb, like the Garritan CFX where we ear the Abbey road room reverberation.
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/21/20 11:46 PM
[Linked Image]
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/22/20 12:11 AM
Originally Posted by Frédéric L
Since headphones samples are binaural, Yamaha could (should?) have recorded a minimum of natural reverb, like the Garritan CFX where we ear the Abbey road room reverberation.

Doesn't that depends on the recording environment? If they recorded the binaural in an anechoic chamber (perhaps because they expect after-the-fact reverb to be applied by the user) then the sample would be just as dry as the sample.
Posted By: 9190 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/24/20 09:19 AM
Originally Posted by Otavio
[Linked Image]

They leaked the presentation through another channel. For those who understand Indonesian. I couldn't bear it myself (and it's not about the language).

Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/24/20 09:38 AM
I speak a little Indonesian:

She says the piano is uncannily close to the real thing, and that she can detect all sorts of subtleties between ppp and fff. “If I hit the keys real hard, I hear a very loud but complex response“. Her favorite finish is the rosewood.

And about that action, it is simply indistinguishable from the real thing, “how did they do it“, she says.

Needless to say, she firmly believes this is the best digital out there.


P.S.

The song at the beginning is about love, peace, and the world coming together in kumbaya-well-balanced richness!
Posted By: 9190 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/24/20 09:42 AM
grin
Posted By: tudor33sud Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/24/20 10:56 AM
Originally Posted by Pete14
I speak a little Indonesian:

She says the piano is uncannily close to the real thing, and that she can detect all sorts of subtleties between ppp and fff. “If I hit the keys real hard, I hear a very loud but complex response“. Her favorite finish is the rosewood.

And about that action, it is simply indistinguishable from the real thing, “how did they do it“, she says.

Needless to say, she firmly believes this is the best digital out there.


P.S.

The song at the beginning is about love, peace, and the world coming together in kumbaya-well-balanced richness!

Infinite sense of humour reported! Read the post at your own risk if you are too serious about digital pianos! laugh
Posted By: Almaviva Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/26/20 09:53 PM
Originally Posted by Frédéric L
Originally Posted by Almaviva
Other than that, the CLP685 and CLP785 are pretty much identical; no changes at all to the action, pedals and sound system.

According to the Yamaha site (which is not clear) and the MIDI implementation chart, the new sound system system is sensitive to the key acceleration.

Isn't the CLP685 sensitive to key acceleration as well?
Posted By: peterws Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 07/26/20 10:17 PM
Originally Posted by tudor33sud
Originally Posted by Pete14
I speak a little Indonesian:

She says the piano is uncannily close to the real thing, and that she can detect all sorts of subtleties between ppp and fff. “If I hit the keys real hard, I hear a very loud but complex response“. Her favorite finish is the rosewood.

And about that action, it is simply indistinguishable from the real thing, “how did they do it“, she says.

Needless to say, she firmly believes this is the best digital out there.


P.S.

The song at the beginning is about love, peace, and the world coming together in kumbaya-well-balanced richness!

Infinite sense of humour reported! Read the post at your own risk if you are too serious about digital pianos! laugh

Ah! But she's lovely. She can say do what she wants, do what she wants!
Posted By: ebonykawai Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/04/20 01:14 AM
I'm glad to know I'm not the only one confused by the 700 series, LOL. I'm on Kraft Music, comparing specs on the 600 and 700 GPs and.....so, why did Yamaha do this? The 700 series of GPs drops midi and Bluetooth, opting only for USB. The 600 series had all 3. 4 more voices in the 795. Grand Touch S action in the 765. Supposedly some different sampling?

That's....about it?
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/04/20 02:19 AM
Originally Posted by ebonykawai
That's....about it?

I expect there are more "under the hood" changes that aren't immediately obvious from comparing specification tables. This is why it's important to play-test instruments in person whenever and wherever possible.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: Ozan Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/04/20 02:38 AM
I have been looking at the specs of all the models in the 700 series on the Yamaha website, and it seems like only the CLP 785 has the counter-weights. Which is the most expenssive one, probably gonna be around 4000,- euros, if not more.

Which is kinda weird, cause i belive the CA79 also comes with counter-weights, and is around 3000,- euros, a thousand euro less.... am i missing something?
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/04/20 03:54 AM
Originally Posted by Ozan
I have been looking at the specs of all the models in the 700 series on the Yamaha website, and it seems like only the CLP 785 has the counter-weights. Which is the most expenssive one, probably gonna be around 4000,- euros, if not more.

Which is kinda weird, cause i belive the CA79 also comes with counter-weights, and is around 3000,- euros, a thousand euro less.... am i missing something?

The CN29 is around 1250 Euros and also includes counterweights. However, this doesn't necessarily mean that the CN29 (with counterweights) is a better instrument than the CLP-775 (without counterweights). It's important to consider the instrument as a whole, rather than focus too much on individual specifications.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: Jitin Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/04/20 01:25 PM
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by Ozan
I have been looking at the specs of all the models in the 700 series on the Yamaha website, and it seems like only the CLP 785 has the counter-weights. Which is the most expenssive one, probably gonna be around 4000,- euros, if not more.

Which is kinda weird, cause i belive the CA79 also comes with counter-weights, and is around 3000,- euros, a thousand euro less.... am i missing something?

The CN29 is around 1250 Euros and also includes counterweights. However, this doesn't necessarily mean that the CN29 (with counterweights) is a better instrument than the CLP-775 (without counterweights). It's important to consider the instrument as a whole, rather than focus too much on individual specifications.

Kind regards,
James
x


So , i really cannot sense counter weights on digital actions. For example, I believe es8 has counter weights, and i couldn't sense something different than nwx action other than the usual differences because it is different, but has no counterweights
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/04/20 04:05 PM
Counterweights are just another silly emulation on digital pianos that shouldn't be there smile On real acoustic pianos the bass hammers need to be big and heavy and that makes the downweight of these keys too high which affects pianissimo playing. When you play very quiet the downweight is most easily perceptible and would act almost like a spring against your fingers. By adding lead weights you put the downweight within the expected range and so pianissimo playing is more predictable and even across the keys. But it adds more inertia to the keys and that feels like sluggish keys on fortissimo strokes smile It's a sacrifice.

I understand the viewpoint that digital pianos should emulate acoustic pianos even with their quirks, so I'm OK with that. However going as far as making the bass keys overly heavy as on a big concert grand and then putting counterweights is just a silly thing IMO. The keyboard in the Cybrid doesn't have counterweights and even without them the bass hammers are not very heavy, the downweight is around 50g and then the treble keys go as low as 36g downweight and honestly that's so pleasant to play. I believe it's from a small baby grand. Coincidentally I read some passages from a Chopin book with quotes from Chopin himself and his students about how his preference has been always for the Pleyel as having very light keyboard with shallow key dip. His fortissimo was nowhere near today's thunderous tone and he never played too loud, referring to "dog barks" when his pupils played too loud. I understand it's all about preference after all. But if it was me, I'd prefer keyboards with light hammers and no counterweights.
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/04/20 04:25 PM
As I understand it, counterweights are not some fundamental principle/requirement for a key or action. They're a tool that can employed when the need arises. So if you have a key that is unbalanced because it's too heavy on the action end of the balance rail, or an action that is on the heavy side, one way you can mitigate it is with counterweights on the front of the keys.

Taken by itself, advertising counterweights is kind of odd IMO. It's kind of like saying "our keys/action aren't well-balanced so we've fixed them with counterweights."

Also, counterweights have their own drawbacks, such as increasing dynamic downweight, slowing key return and repetition rates, etc.

As Kawai James says, don't just assume actions with counterweights are better by nature of having them. An ideal action would probably be designed to minimize or eliminate the need for counterweights; but counterweights can be an effective solution if your action can't be designed that way.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/04/20 04:51 PM
“Key weights”, as well as “escapement “, are simply good for selling/marketing digital pianos to those obsessed with coming as close as possible to the real thing regardless of whether some aspects related to the ‘real’ thing are not relevant to the digital domain, and, sometimes, even make things worse.

Most people haven’t got a clue why these weights exist on an acoustic piano, but if a digital also has similar weights it must mean that the digital “is closer to an acoustic”.

If I’m not mistaken, escapement on a real acoustic happens by fault rather than by default, yet many here would not buy a digital if it doesn’t have that “click” that feels so good!
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/04/20 05:25 PM
Bingo! The mechanics and dynamics of acoustic pianos present design problems and force compromises.
So it's odd and silly that digital pianos should emulate those problems and implement the compromises ... all in the name of authenticity.
It's absurd.

If digitals had been invented three centuries ago, how many of the compromises would be present?
Would counterweights be there?
Would escapement?
Would wood?
Originally Posted by Gombessa
As I understand it, counterweights are not some fundamental principle/requirement for a key or action. They're a tool that can employed when the need arises. So if you have a key that is unbalanced because it's too heavy on the action end of the balance rail, or an action that is on the heavy side, one way you can mitigate it is with counterweights on the front of the keys.

Taken by itself, advertising counterweights is kind of odd IMO. It's kind of like saying "our keys/action aren't well-balanced so we've fixed them with counterweights."
There are other electronic keyboard instruments that are not designed to be acoustic piano substitutes.

If you don't want to play an electronic instrument like the piano is played then get one of those.

I don't see any problem in digital PIANOS trying to faithfully emulate a "real" piano.

But I also don't diss these digital substitutes and say that the ultimate goal should be getting an acoustic.

Of course some of the emulations might not really be needed for most of the world's population (like me) who are clueless enough to not miss the feel of the escapement for example.
The key-off sound in the harpsichord ("cembalo" in some languages) is also a side effect of the action design.

How do we feel about harpsichord sounds in digital pianos that omit that sound?

We say that they are not authentic.
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/04/20 11:44 PM
I believe the general consensus among those who have played actions with and without counterweights is that their presence in digital piano actions improves the key touch. For example, most players prefer the RHIII action (with counterweights) to that of RHII (without counterweights). The same is often said for the CLP-685 (GrandTouch with counterweights) vs the CLP-675 (GrandTouch without counterweights).

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: Ozan Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/05/20 03:06 AM
@Kawai James, my impression of counterweights were that they where added as such, so one could have more control overall, or like play repeated notes faster....

Thats why it kinda weirded me out when i saw that only the most expenssive one came with counterweights, and the other models dont. So, one immediatly thinks "this one comes with counterweights and is more expenssive, so it must be an better digital piano" smile

But, looking at some of the comments, some people dont care about the counterweights.... they are fine without it, it seems.

I myself, have been playing on a N1 AvantGrand these passed few years, (which ofcourse has a real grand action build-in) so by no means am i an expert when it comes to digital pianos, as i dont have much exprerience with them, and the "bells and whistels" or "extras" they come with smile

Me, personally, care only about the piano sound, and the feel & touch of the keyboard. (as in, does it come close to an real grand action as close as possible) The rest i dont need.
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/05/20 11:42 PM
Clp 785 - Sweetwater


Sweetwater usually releases videos in advance about new releases for sale
Let's hope we have a Yamaha video soon.
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/05/20 11:53 PM
I wonder when the CLP-800 series pianos will make their debut? smile
Posted By: matschulat Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/06/20 12:47 AM
Originally Posted by Pete14
If I’m not mistaken, escapement on a real acoustic happens by fault rather than by default, yet many here would not buy a digital if it doesn’t have that “click” that feels so good!

The feeling of the escapement mechanism is used by pianists to sense the point in which one can press the key without having the hammer strike the strings. This effect can be used musically to make certain notes sound sympathetically, or to allow a note keep sounding after repedalling. So if a digital piano has the "escapement feel", it makes it easier and faster to find that point and to "play" a note without sounding it. Also, at least for me, an action with an escapement feel is easier to play pianissimo, especially on fast passages.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/06/20 10:34 AM
Some escape-artists claim that ‘escapement’ is useless; that is, unless there’s a well planned and properly choreographed strategy in place.

“I escape, therefore I’m not”! A direct quote from famed “artist” Harry Houdini.
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/06/20 11:31 AM
This is true ...
Originally Posted by matschulat
The feeling of the escapement mechanism is used by pianists to sense the point in which one can press the key without having the hammer strike the strings. This effect can be used musically to make certain notes sound sympathetically, or to allow a note keep sounding after repedalling.

This is not ...
Originally Posted by matschulat
So if a digital piano has the "escapement feel", it makes it easier and faster to find that point and to "play" a note without sounding it. Also, at least for me, an action with an escapement feel is easier to play pianissimo, especially on fast passages.
... unless certain conditions are met ...

The clicky feel is independent of the sensor response.

It might be that the position at which the click occurs ("simulated escapement feel") corresponds to the position at which the key/sensor is at the position where low velocity movement toward the bottom of stroke will produce no sound ("simulated disengagement of the hammer").

But there is no assurance that the mechanism can maintain this arrangement over time. And there's no affordance for regulating the behavior.

The clicky thing ("falsely advertised escapement") is just a flap of plastic that wears out. And the key sensors are not adjustable.

Maybe pianos with optical sensors could do a better job of maintaining the relationship between clicky thing and key sensor?
But the point is moot ... because those pianos have real escapement. No clicky thing.
Posted By: LGabrielPhoto Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/07/20 03:58 PM
I was about to get a CA78 but now I think I want to wait for the 745...just wish there was more actual real world tests of it already smile
Posted By: matschulat Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/07/20 05:23 PM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
The clicky feel is independent of the sensor response.

Yes, you are absolutely right. But, assuming the physical click, the "false escapement" mechanism, and the sensors are appropriately adjusted to each other, I think it is a positive thing to have this escapement feeling in a digital piano.

First, it makes the DP's action feel more similarly to the feel of an acoustic's action. Escapement in acoustic pianos have a certain "clicky" feel, although not equal in all pianos and even very subtle, almost imperceptible, in some.

Second, I think the "false escapement" mechanism is not a merely cosmetic thing, since I suppose (correct me if I'm utterly wrong) it adds some (probably minimal) additional resistance to the action, and this is something that helps in pianissimo playing and silent note triggering.

Third, to say that the plastic piece that generates the "false escapement" click worns over time does not mean that I should then ignore if a digital piano has it or not. Manufacturers should simply try to make more durable and resistant actions that keep regulated over time. (As you said, maybe optical sensors could help.)

But... I personally would not buy a digital piano for serious playing or practicing if it didn't have the escapement feel, because _for me_ it improves my playing and makes the piano feel more similar to the real thing. But this can be different for other people. The important thing is to have a DP with an action that feels and responds well to the pianist's playing, independently of it having escapement or not. Just my opinion.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/12/20 04:59 PM
Yamaha says about the CLP-7XX:

”.......by carefully recording the entire tonal range of each of the 88 keys....”


I ask, could this be Yamaha’s way of saying no looping?
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/12/20 05:40 PM
Maybe, maybe not.

But the whole tonal range will more probably mean “all the timbres” of each keys. Knowing that the timbre is here determined by a velocity and an acceleration which is new.

You will find the tonal word on a diagram (tonal variation) with two axis. Speed touch - softless/loudness which is quite inaccurate.
Posted By: Harpuia Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/12/20 06:24 PM
From the YouTube audio demo of the CLP-700 I'm sure they are NOT using unlooped samples......
Posted By: LGabrielPhoto Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/12/20 06:27 PM
I am waiting to test the 745 before deciding to go with Kawai. Is Kawai using looped samples?
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/12/20 06:31 PM
Yamaha says ‘recording’ the entire tonal range, so this is not necessarily the same as ‘rendering’ the “entire” tonal range; which they can fake through some trickery.

If they say recording the entire range it implies the duration because if they’re talking about layers it becomes more difficult to establish what the ‘entire range’ is.

Some would say that even 100 layers per key is simply scratching the surface, whilst others will take it further by saying there aren’t enough layers in the universe to capture the ‘entirety’ of a piano’s tonal range.

So the question is, what exactly are they talking about? Range in terms of length (which is easily doable), or range in terms of tonal variations? The latter, it seems, is infinite; and only physical modeling can attempt to come close to it.

“The unquantifiable, infinite, and abstract nature of the piano is what keeps me going,” said Beethoven!
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/12/20 06:32 PM
Don't you know better than to ask?
Or are you just being sarcastic? smile
Originally Posted by Pete14
Yamaha says about the CLP-7XX:
”.......by carefully recording the entire tonal range of each of the 88 keys....”
I ask, could this be Yamaha’s way of saying no looping?
Perhaps Snopes has the answer?
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/12/20 07:18 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
So the question is, what exactly are they talking about? Range in terms of length (which is easily doable), or range in terms of tonal variations? The latter, it seems, is infinite; and only physical modeling can attempt to come close to it.

With layer blending we can have 1 timbre per measured velocity... no need of modelling even if it is an approximation.

And with a Pianoteq + Roland experiment, I think I would prefer samples. Note that from the nearby thread about a blinded test real vs. Digital, the Roland is quickly considered as a digital (The justification wasn’t in english!), while some sampled pianos (Casio GP510, Kawai NV5) induce some hesitation or even a wrong “it is an acoustic piano”

Note : 100 levels is the achievement of VSL Vienna Imperial. But I suppose that we can’t notice a timbre variation between to adjacent velocity layers.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/12/20 07:28 PM
.......but Fred, why the heck do they say “we recorded the entire tonal range”?
Why not say, ‘we recorded some of the tonal range’?

Entire seems all too much; as if capturing the moon in its entirety, it’s just not possible with all those craters (don’t even get me started on the dark side.............
of the moon).
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/12/20 07:42 PM
Come on, Pete. You know better than to take at face value all that bovine extruded matter thrown out in marketing materials.
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/12/20 07:43 PM
We are talking about a marketing sentence, not a scientific sentence.

Surely, it would be more accurate to read “from the entire tonal range, we have sampled (let’s say) 5 velocity layers and 4 acceleration layers, in order to provide you a close approximation of a real piano”. But do you really think this sentence is marketing compatible ?

The marketing sentences do avoid the “key acceleration” words. We have to seek them in the MIDI implementation chart. I can expect any approximation from this marketing source.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/12/20 07:45 PM
So you’re saying Yamaha’s “Real Grand Expression” is neither real, nor grand, nor expressive?

Damn, Mac and Fred, that’s harsh wink
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/12/20 07:56 PM
RGE was already used with previous generations of CLP, no key acceleration taken into account.

Now we have an « even more real grand expression ». But EMRGE was not a marketing compatible acronym. smile


In France we had an add for a laundry powder “more white than white”. I can’t imagine the next generation of the powder.

EDIT: Perhaps a new CLP line of products will be “more real than real grand expression”...
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/12/20 08:10 PM

Perhaps this is what Yamaha had in mind for RGE ... smile


[Linked Image]
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/12/20 08:19 PM
Yes, that’s what it is: “RGE” stands for Real Grand Espresso!

“RGE2” must certainly stand for Real Grand Espresso...with 2 sugars.

I wonder what VRM really stands for grin
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/12/20 08:21 PM
But now we have RGE 2 and Grand Expression Modelling.

Don’t ask me which innovation takes into account the key acceleration... what they improve.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/12/20 08:23 PM
Wait, you’re saying we now have RGE2 and GEM?
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/12/20 08:26 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
Wait, you’re saying we now have RGE2 and GEM?
We have both of them, but the acronym GEM is not used. Perhaps because GEM is already a digital piano brand registered by GeneralMusic. smile
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/12/20 08:40 PM
If only Yamaha spent a little less in marketing and a tad more in R&D, but then again, something like “we did the best we could; why don’t you try building a digital piano yourself“ would not fare well; so yes, marketing gibberish is here to stay.

The good news is that we can at least detect some of the BS at play, but many out there truly believe every word printed by Yamaha’s marketing gurus.

For god’s sake, the CLP-240 is basically indistinguishable from the real thing (touch and sound) according to Yamaha. laugh
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/12/20 08:56 PM
For a company to run, it has to 1/ design and make products, 2/ to sell them. I don’t think it costs a lot to propose a new acronym (RGE yesterday, RGE 2 now) and a rough explanation. The quite inaccurate marketing sentences (no sign of acceleration, not the phrasing word, a graph with a loudness vs velocity - which are too closely related), could even make me think some parts have been simplified by an apprentice.

I find the use of key acceleration quite innovative, but since I am not used to real pianos and their phrasing subtleties, I would perhaps have an hard time to appreciate the improvement.


The expected evolution is unlooped samples, but they will perhaps have to improve the architecture.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/12/20 09:13 PM
I’m still trying to figure out what “AWM” is; never mind understanding the riddle that is “AWM2”. A lot of time and money must’ve gone into inventing these terms.

I can only imagine how much it cost to come up with RGE and then follow with RGE2. I never saw it coming (RGE2 after RGE), and that, my friend, is clever and expensive marketing. laugh
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/12/20 09:17 PM

VRM?

[Linked Image]
Originally Posted by Pete14
I wonder what VRM really stands for grin
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/12/20 09:19 PM
laugh
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/12/20 09:29 PM
AWM is Advanced Wave Memory. I guess it is a way of compressing samples to improve the use of the memory. I don’t know if AWM2 makes the memory use more efficient or add some filters, but I guess there is an improvement. (Note : SF2 soundfont have a cutoff filter modulated by velocity... we can expect AWM to have a similar scheme).

Sometimes, the improvement is easy to describe (Kawai uses longer samples between HI-XL and HI... but I don’t know if it is a +25% increase or +200%). Sometimes the improvement is difficult to describe, we have to try it by ourself, but I am sure there is more cost in R&D to improve RGE than to describe it. (The Yamaha description is so vague that it can’t be more costly than the R&D).
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/12/20 09:49 PM
From Advanced Wave Memory to Real Grand Expression. The first conveys advanced computing; the latter an espresso. So yes, you’re right, as of late, the money probably isn’t going into marketing.

But if it’s not going into marketing and it’s not going into R&D, then where is the money going?
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/12/20 10:03 PM
I have told you, the marketing stuff could have been written by an apprentice. It is to vague to inform me about the improvement, I have to seek the MIDI implementation chart to understand, etc.

I am not sure nothing has been gone to the R&D. We have : key acceleration tone control (I don’t know other DP which supports it), touch sensitive key on higher models, a new keyboard (GrandTouch-S).

Note : when the money doesn’t go to a firm department (marketing, R&D...), it goes to shareholders. wink
Posted By: Harpuia Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/12/20 10:07 PM
MIDI reference is here: https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/4/1342334/clp785_en_mr_a0.pdf

There is key acceleration but I don't know how they use that MIDI data.
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/12/20 10:18 PM
Originally Posted by Harpuia
MIDI reference is here: https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/4/1342334/clp785_en_mr_a0.pdf

There is key acceleration but I don't know how they use that MIDI data.

It would be surprising that Yamaha developed an acceleration measure and not use it. The marketing chart (tonal variation) shows a 2 axis diagram (but written by the apprentice, it is quite vague). Then I deduce the tonal variation to take into account 2 parameters : velocity and acceleration.

I have proposed a video about the phrasing impact (tenuto, legato, staccato...), even with the damper pedal (no impact of the delay of each note). Unfortunately, it has been done on a Steinway and not on the newest CLP7xx.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/13/20 08:53 PM
Grand Acoustic Imaging? grin
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/13/20 09:00 PM
Did you get inspiration from Kawai (harmonic imaging) ?
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/13/20 09:23 PM
No; this is yet another state of the art feature in the CLP-7XX.

It seems like GRAND is the revolving theme for the new Clavs: Grand this, Grand that....


I wonder what they’re compensating for blush
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/14/20 01:48 AM
Posted By: Mickey_ Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/14/20 09:11 AM
Here are the reviews (buyers guides) from Bonners Music.

CLP735:



CLP745:

Posted By: 9190 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/14/20 09:13 AM
  
Posted By: EssBrace Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/14/20 09:23 AM
Completely re-recorded CFX samples then...
Posted By: tudor33sud Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/14/20 09:25 AM
New 765GP video up as well
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/14/20 09:27 AM
@Pete14 : We will have Real Upright Expression, Upright-touch, Upright Expression Modelling. When the Clavinova will use an upright piano instead of a grand as a reference wink
Posted By: 9190 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/14/20 10:09 AM

Posted By: 9190 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/14/20 10:21 AM






Posted By: Tyr Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/14/20 11:20 AM
I don't hear any difference in the recordings according to its predecessors. So it's basically old wine in new bottles.... again.
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/14/20 11:35 AM
It appears that the major difference will be in touch/connection department.

Gp graded pedaling(775/785)/Lighter grandtouch keys/easier to play near fallboard(775/785)
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/14/20 11:36 AM
How dare you, Tyr!

To claim Yamaha has done the bare minimum, and that there is no ‘real’ difference between 7XX and 6XX; this is blasphemy!

The science in these pianos is simply too advanced for us mere mortals to understand. Take, for instance, GEM; this is alien-level tech.

These instruments are at least 100 years ahead of us; this is why we can’t appreciate them: we simply don’t understand the advanced alien tech!


P.S.

Is Yamaha collaborating with aliens? How else to explain such advanced technology?
Surely, this is not the work of humans alone.

The Egyptians got help from aliens in building the pyramids, and I’m certain Yamaha got a little help from them aliens, too, for the creation of a new piano that is more than the sum of its parts; it is literally out of this world!
Posted By: petebfrance Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/14/20 06:42 PM
The tune at about 11:10. I've heard it so often, but don't know what it is. Can anybody advise / tell me where I can get an arrangement of this please?

Originally Posted by Mickey_
Here are the reviews (buyers guides) from Bonners Music.

CLP735:

Posted By: EssBrace Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/14/20 08:38 PM
Originally Posted by petebfrance
The tune at about 11:10. I've heard it so often, but don't know what it is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Wish_I_Knew_How_It_Would_Feel_to_Be_Free
Posted By: petebfrance Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/14/20 09:25 PM
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by petebfrance
The tune at about 11:10. I've heard it so often, but don't know what it is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Wish_I_Knew_How_It_Would_Feel_to_Be_Free
Brilliant, thank-you thumb
Posted By: TexasBear Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/14/20 11:20 PM
9190, thanks for posting the videos! The video for the 765GP shows it with a touch screen, but the user manual shows physical buttons. I didn't see anywhere else in the video that showed that part of the instrument in detail. Do you know if the 765 has the same screen as the 795?

Edit: Tudor33's video did show a close-up. The 765GP does have the physical buttons. Thanks!
Posted By: 9190 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/14/20 11:55 PM
Yes, those videos of different models for previews just used the same image with the touch control panel from CLP-775. Only 775/785 and also CLP‑795GP have a touch control panel. Don't rely on those thumbnails.
Posted By: joemama42O Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/15/20 12:02 AM
https://www.google.com/shopping/product/10156476216622946240?q=clp+645&sxsrf=ALeKk03a8HLRMsWN2YkAPHomNKyMKm6x0g:1597449637420&biw=1536&bih=754&prds=epd:4556334982230437788,prmr:1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjAgM_S85vrAhUlJjQIHRzBBnEQ8wII9AY
The new CLP-735 is only... 2700? tbh that's a really good price...
Posted By: LGabrielPhoto Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/15/20 12:05 AM
Originally Posted by joemama42O
https://www.google.com/shopping/product/10156476216622946240?q=clp+645&sxsrf=ALeKk03a8HLRMsWN2YkAPHomNKyMKm6x0g:1597449637420&biw=1536&bih=754&prds=epd:4556334982230437788,prmr:1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjAgM_S85vrAhUlJjQIHRzBBnEQ8wII9AY
The new CLP-735 is only... 2700? tbh that's a really good price...
My local dealer was actually giving me a lower price than that and got me pumped..until I listened to it and played it. smirk
Posted By: 9190 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/15/20 12:14 AM
Originally Posted by joemama42O
The new CLP-735 is only... 2700? tbh that's a really good price...

If we are talking about US dollars, then I do not think at all that this is a good price for this model. I remember once I bought a new CLP-340 for $2200. Yes, currencies devalue, but nonetheless.
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/15/20 12:43 AM
Tony from Bonners mentioned the action on the 775 feeling lighter than its predecessor. Looks like Yamaha have made some changes to the GrandTouch 🤔
Posted By: 9190 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/15/20 10:57 AM
Tony was more specific. He not only said that the action felt lighter, but that "the action [GrandTouch] had been improved for the 700 series". Thus, some optimization for this action clearly took place.

For reference he talked about the action in CLP-775 at time intervals 2:40 and 10:13.

And it looks like Tony clearly prefers GrandTouch action in CLP-775 over GrandTouch-S in CLP-745. He talked about it on 0:37 and 5:39 in the video comparing CLP-745 and CLP-775.

As we know, in the CLP-600 series, many preferred NWX action to GrandTouch. Now it looks like the choice between new revisions will be more obvious. But the rule "try it yourself", as always, is relevant. Another thing is that not everyone has access to such testing and comparison personally.
Posted By: Tyr Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/15/20 11:32 AM
I wouldn't believe anyone about the feel of the keys until i tested it by myself.
Posted By: F-Sharp Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/15/20 11:55 AM
Highly interested in the CLP745. I was already interested in the CLP645 because of the NWX keybed, which seems to be quite good (according to some reviews I've seen, especially the P515 review by James Pavel). CLP745 should be even better I guess (but what to expect?). No 700 series instrument available in the stores nearby yet, so I'll have to be patient again. (Also waiting for a Roland HP704 to test drive...). What I just don't get with the Yam 700 series (just like P515): where's the registration button/banks? Is this only accessible via the PianoSmart app? Does anybody know how to save your favorite sound settings with these instruments?
Posted By: 9190 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/15/20 12:02 PM
Originally Posted by Tyr
I wouldn't believe anyone about the feel of the keys until i tested it by myself.
It's not about that. The main idea is that the same person feels the difference between the two versions of the action, and also says that some changes have been made. And many are just interested in: is there any difference between the previous revision and the new one. For better or worse, that's another question. And of course, it is best to try it yourself (if you have the opportunity), this is an obvious thing that does not even need to be explained. But if this is not possible, no matter how much you believe or not someone, you will still not be able to personally try it.
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/15/20 02:43 PM
Quite so. What someone else thinks about a piano action doesn't really matter to me.
I have to try it myself before making any judgment.
The feel of a keyboard cannot be properly expressed in words.
Originally Posted by Tyr
I wouldn't believe anyone about the feel of the keys until i tested it by myself.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/15/20 02:58 PM
Originally Posted by 9190
  
This!
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/15/20 03:39 PM
Which "this" do you mean, Pete? Your "this" is an empty quote.
Your this aint all that, is it? smile
Posted By: Jacques777 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/15/20 03:48 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pXV2Gfhqb0&list=WL&index=9&t=553s


what's the name of this nicely piece/song at 8:00 (with bosendorfer piano sound) ?
Thanks
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/15/20 04:01 PM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Which "this" do you mean, Pete? Your "this" is an empty quote.
Your this aint all that, is it? smile

That was sorta the point.

For some reason 9190 said nothing in that post, and I, Pete, thought it poetic to say something about nothing; but I guess it didn’t work. blush
Posted By: EPW Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/15/20 04:09 PM
I got it but choose not to give Pete14 more encouragement. He post enough sarcastic replies as it is on this forum. I usually get a good chuckle out of them. Though they should come with a disclaimer so folks understand he is usually injecting Humor here.

Peace
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/15/20 04:27 PM
But I was not being sarcastic, EPW, I was being poetically abstract (or so I thought).
I’ve been obsessed with the notion of nothing, zero, nada all my life.

What if there is something to nothing, I ask?
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/15/20 04:57 PM
I guess it all went by past me like a double-helping of beans!
Posted By: EPW Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/15/20 05:02 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
But I was not being sarcastic, EPW, I was being poetically abstract (or so I thought).
I’ve been obsessed with the notion of nothing, zero, nada all my life.

What if there is something to nothing, I ask?

Please don't do that to me. My daughter is interested in Clinical Psychology. I get enough of those type of thoughts from her. I'm here to clear my head, not inject it will more of Nothing LOL.
Posted By: EPW Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/15/20 05:05 PM
I do want to try the new series from Yamaha when they arrive at my local dealer. Good reason for a drive as Andy's Custard is right down the street. Yum smile I just have to make sure I go to the Piano dealer first so I don't bring sticky fingers to try out the pianos.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/15/20 06:09 PM
Originally Posted by EPW
Originally Posted by Pete14
But I was not being sarcastic, EPW, I was being poetically abstract (or so I thought).
I’ve been obsessed with the notion of nothing, zero, nada all my life.

What if there is something to nothing, I ask?

Please don't do that to me. My daughter is interested in Clinical Psychology. I get enough of those type of thoughts from her. I'm here to clear my head, not inject it will more of Nothing LOL.
wink
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/15/20 07:04 PM
You guys, I just noticed the CLP-775 is missing from the Yamaha CLP-7XX lineup (Yamaha America site) and also missing from a few dealer listings; ‘sup with that?
Posted By: EssBrace Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/15/20 07:13 PM
Originally Posted by Jacques777
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pXV2Gfhqb0&list=WL&index=9&t=553s


what's the name of this nicely piece/song at 8:00 (with bosendorfer piano sound) ?
Thanks


‘Tonight’ - Elton John
Posted By: mwf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/15/20 08:15 PM
Doesn't anyone find it insulting yamaha are charging well over £3000, approx same price as kawai ca99 and not including counterweights in the action? They deliberately left this out and is only available in the 785! Deliberately leaving out counterweights in a piano priced as high as the clp685! Just wow!
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/15/20 08:43 PM
At least, the X75 received a really nice upgrade in the speakers department
Posted By: 9190 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/15/20 09:16 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
For some reason 9190 said nothing in that post,
At first there was something, but then I deleted the content by editing the post, because in the post earlier (two minutes before my publication), another person posted the same that I posted after him (some new videos). Since there is no way to delete posts here, I left it blank.
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/15/20 10:00 PM
Originally Posted by mwf
Doesn't anyone find it insulting yamaha are charging well over £3000, approx same price as kawai ca99 and not including counterweights in the action? They deliberately left this out and is only available in the 785! Deliberately leaving out counterweights in a piano priced as high as the clp685! Just wow!

I think the better question is why they designed an action that needs counterweights to begin with? Why not just build the correct weighting into the design in the first place?
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/15/20 10:19 PM
How do those spruce cone speakers on the 685/785 compare to the soundboard speaker system on the CA99?
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/15/20 10:23 PM
Originally Posted by 9190
Originally Posted by Pete14
For some reason 9190 said nothing in that post,
At first there was something, but then I deleted the content by editing the post, because in the post earlier (two minutes before my publication), another person posted the same that I posted after him (some new videos). Since there is no way to delete posts here, I left it blank.

....and here I thought you were making a ‘statement’ by not saying anything.
I don’t know, maybe a silent protest of sorts; a stand against excess wording. blush
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/15/20 10:35 PM
775/785 have transducers too(trying to mimic something like a piano soundboard, perhaps?)
Posted By: petebfrance Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/16/20 11:24 AM
Originally Posted by Pete14
You guys, I just noticed the CLP-775 is missing from the Yamaha CLP-7XX lineup (Yamaha America site) and also missing from a few dealer listings; ‘sup with that?
I noticed that too. Originally I looked it up on the internet and got the French version but was curious to know what the 'transducer' was, so managed by a round-about approach to get to the USA site to see if it had any more information and, no CLP775. I wonder....
That white CLP-775 looked really nice but there's no hope in our household that it would stay that way. Pity.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/16/20 12:18 PM
In the past it seemed (I may be wrong) that Yamaha released all ‘upright’ cabinet versions simultaneously and then the ‘grand’ versions followed.

Now the grands are available alongside the uprights, but the CLP-775 is conspicuously missing; and not just from the website, but also from the few dealers I’ve checked online.

What’s the strategy here? Surely, Yamaha is not thinking about removing the 775 from the lineup (America).
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/16/20 02:41 PM
The CLP-x70 models have been confusing items for years.

In the 200 series the x70 model was a big step up from the x40, and the x80 was another big step up.

But in the 300 series the x70 model was a small step up from the x40. Not worth it. This has continued ever since.

Time and again the x70 struggles to justify its existence. Too many tiers is unjustified. The x70 model needs to be dropped.

Just like they seem to have dropped the x20 and maybe the x30... because those are no more than cabinet upgrades from the top Arius models.
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/16/20 05:39 PM
As i said before, X75 gives a big jump in speaker department. X85 stays the same.
The differences are getting smaller

Maybe you are right, 3xMac....

675 - (35 W + 50 W + 20 W) x 2 = 210w
685 - (50 W + 50 W + 50 W) x 2 = 300w

775 - (42 W + 50 W + 50 W) x 2 = 284w
785 - (50 W + 50 W + 50 W) x 2 = 300w
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/16/20 06:48 PM
But why, Otavio, why can’t we get the new-and-improved 775 in America?
Posted By: 9190 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/16/20 07:36 PM
Because America deserves the best. And here CLP-785 is at your service. It is even better, and even more improved than CLP-775. ) Though, I don't like upright piano style.
Posted By: Jitin Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/16/20 08:43 PM
These new 700 series don’t sound whole lot better than the 600 series , just little different .

I wonder if these manufacturers , in this case Yamaha, really does re record the whole sample of the Cfx, as they advertise...:/
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/16/20 08:51 PM
Those differences are about as close to zero as you can get.
Originally Posted by Otavio
As i said before, X75 gives a big jump in speaker department. X85 stays the same.
The differences are getting smaller

Maybe you are right, 3xMac....

675 - (35 W + 50 W + 20 W) x 2 = 210w
685 - (50 W + 50 W + 50 W) x 2 = 300w

775 - (42 W + 50 W + 50 W) x 2 = 284w
785 - (50 W + 50 W + 50 W) x 2 = 300w
Between 675 and 685 the difference is 1.5 dB.
Between 775 and 785 the difference is 0.2 dB.
(And that's at full power ... which doesn't happen.)
So perceptually there's zero difference.

But I'll ring the old chime again: Specs don't matter.
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/16/20 10:12 PM
Interestingly, the CLP575 was two way (40+40)x2, compared to the CLP585 which was three way (30+30+30)x2.

Globally, the power increase and the CLPx75 is more and more comparable to a CLPx85.

CLP675 had already plenty of power. (More than the CLP585 !), then the added value of the CLPx85 is mostly the counterweights and the 480 XG instruments (interesting if you have a MIDI track). The CLP785 doesn’t seems me interesting, but for someone which have won at the lottery and don’t know how too spend its money, it can be a good product.
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/16/20 11:23 PM
Do all those watt numbers mean anything? I used to own the CLP675 before switching to the NU1X which on paper has 180W to the former’s 210W. However, I felt the sound on the NU1X was clearer. That’s in addition to it having only 4 speakers against the CLP675’s 6 speakers.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/16/20 11:29 PM
Okay, this defies logic; how can a meager 180W four-speaker system sound ‘better’ than a 210W six-speaker system?

Surely, you must reassess!
Posted By: Jitin Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/17/20 03:34 AM
what song is he playing at :32?

what style is that playing, is it jazz? I love it, it is so beautiful

l
Posted By: Colin Miles Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/17/20 10:10 AM
Originally Posted by Jitin
what song is he playing at :32?

what style is that playing, is it jazz? I love it, it is so beautiful

l
Yes, it is jazz and Aled did tell me what it is but I didn't quite catch it. They currently have problems with phone and internet connections due to a lorry crashing into one of the phone boxes. He says the action is very nice. Must go in and try it sometime.
Posted By: Jitin Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/17/20 12:13 PM
Originally Posted by Colin Miles
Originally Posted by Jitin
what song is he playing at :32?

what style is that playing, is it jazz? I love it, it is so beautiful

l
Yes, it is jazz and Aled did tell me what it is but I didn't quite catch it. They currently have problems with phone and internet connections due to a lorry crashing into one of the phone boxes. He says the action is very nice. Must go in and try it sometime.

Are you located near this shop?
Did you try the clp775? how is it compare to 600 series, particularly the action and cfx sample?
Posted By: Colin Miles Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/17/20 12:44 PM
Originally Posted by Jitin
Originally Posted by Colin Miles
Originally Posted by Jitin
what song is he playing at :32?

what style is that playing, is it jazz? I love it, it is so beautiful

l
Yes, it is jazz and Aled did tell me what it is but I didn't quite catch it. They currently have problems with phone and internet connections due to a lorry crashing into one of the phone boxes. He says the action is very nice. Must go in and try it sometime.

Are you located near this shop?
Did you try the clp775? how is it compare to 600 series, particularly the action and cfx sample?
I used to pop in there regularly before covid but as you now have to make an appointment I have only been to the acoustic showroom since their reopening, but hope to do so soon. Aled said that he liked the action - he, like me, didn't like the 685. As for the samples, well that is all a matter of taste and until you have heard them yourself you won't know.
Posted By: Jitin Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/17/20 01:23 PM
Originally Posted by Colin Miles
Originally Posted by Jitin
what song is he playing at :32?

what style is that playing, is it jazz? I love it, it is so beautiful
Yes, it is jazz and Aled did tell me what it is but I didn't quite catch it. They currently have problems with phone and internet connections due to a lorry crashing into one of the phone boxes. He says the action is very nice. Must go in and try it sometime.

I wish there was sheets for that exact arrangement.
Posted By: Jitin Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/18/20 10:05 PM
Yamaha removed the aliquot resonance from the new models, I find it interesting why they did that , the manuals don’t mention it
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/18/20 10:08 PM
How dare they; to remove the aliquot!

What next, are you going to tell me they removed the CLP775 from the American market? Now, that would truly take me over the edge!
Posted By: Jitin Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/18/20 10:15 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
How dare they; to remove the aliquot!

What next, are you going to tell me they removed the CLP775 from the American market? Now, that would truly take me over the edge!

I mention it because there were some issues with the 600 series sample, there's something wrong with the audio, there's something like background noise and there's hissing-like sound to most of the notes with certain effects . I had same complaint in my 515 which used the same 600 series sample.
Removing certain things like Aliquot resonance may have fixed it
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/18/20 11:55 PM
@MacMacMac and Otavio about the CLP775 vs CLP785.

Perhaps the CLP785 pricing is set to make the CLP775 cheap in comparison.

See price framing (https://scottfenstermaker.com/marketing-psychology-price-framing/)

Without the CLP785, you would hesitate and choose a CLP745... with the CLP785, the CLP775 appears to be cheap in comparison, and you surely want to buy it !
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/19/20 12:03 AM
Originally Posted by Frédéric L
@MacMacMac and Otavio about the CLP775 vs CLP785.

Perhaps the CLP785 pricing is set to make the CLP775 cheap in comparison.

See price framing (https://scottfenstermaker.com/marketing-psychology-price-framing/)

Without the CLP785, you would hesitate and choose a CLP745... with the CLP785, the CLP775 appears to be cheap in comparison, and you surely want to buy it !

Yeah, it's nice to have the 775 with a boost in the speaker system since those pianos will arrive at a high price, even more in Brazil.
Posted By: 9190 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/19/20 09:11 AM
I almost never considered CLP-x7x models, and for me CLP-x4x models always looked like an optimal variant. But this time, with the introduction of the CLP-700 series, for the first time I seriously thought that it makes sense to consider the CLP-775 despite higher price.
Posted By: EssBrace Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/19/20 09:15 AM
Originally Posted by 9190
I almost never considered CLP-x7x models, and for me CLP-x4x models always looked like an optimal variant. But this time, with the introduction of the CLP-700 series, for the first time I seriously thought that it makes sense to consider the CLP-775 despite higher price.

I totally agree with you. The cynic in me thinks it is quite clever of them to move the price/performance sweet spot higher up the price range!
Posted By: Jitin Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/19/20 10:13 AM
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by 9190
I almost never considered CLP-x7x models, and for me CLP-x4x models always looked like an optimal variant. But this time, with the introduction of the CLP-700 series, for the first time I seriously thought that it makes sense to consider the CLP-775 despite higher price.

I totally agree with you. The cynic in me thinks it is quite clever of them to move the price/performance sweet spot higher up the price range!

What is different in the clp775 than previous clpx75 series?
Posted By: 9190 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/19/20 10:18 AM
Today, in one of the official Yamaha groups in one of the social networks, where the new CLP-700 series was described, I came across a fragment that was not mentioned in other official materials:

"Improved timbres and binaural sampling of Yamaha CFX and Bosendorfer Imperial grand pianos by adding additional layers of samples. This makes it possible to extract a greater dynamic range, from soft delicate pianissimo to powerful energetic fortissimo".
Posted By: 9190 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/19/20 10:36 AM
Originally Posted by 9190
"Improved timbres and binaural sampling of Yamaha CFX and Bosendorfer Imperial grand pianos by adding additional layers of samples. This makes it possible to extract a greater dynamic range, from soft delicate pianissimo to powerful energetic fortissimo".

So I now have a better understanding of these very basic and abstract phrases, which are present on Yamaha websites:

"Yamaha faithfully reproduces the idiosyncrasies of these concert grand pianos by carefully recording the entire tonal range of each of the 88 keys, making minute adjustments to capture the most harmonious tones each piano has to offer".
Posted By: 9190 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/19/20 10:52 AM
Well, I managed to get more information from them. Not too impressed though. But at least some more specific information. Here's what they answered:

"<…> Starting from CLP-990 (2001), the flagship models had 5 layers of samples, and the lower models had 4 layers. The new CLP‑700 series, CLP‑785/795GP have 6 layers of samples for the Yamaha CFX tone and 5 layers for the Bosendorfer Imperial tone, while the CLP‑735/745/775/765GP models have 5 layers of samples for CFX and 4 for Bosendorfer".
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/19/20 10:53 AM
I don't see mention of the CLP pianos in that quote ...
Originally Posted by 9190
"Improved timbres and binaural sampling of Yamaha CFX and Bosendorfer Imperial grand pianos by adding additional layers of samples. This makes it possible to extract a greater dynamic range, from soft delicate pianissimo to powerful energetic fortissimo".
Call me cynical ... but I tend to turn a skeptical eye toward promotional material.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/19/20 10:58 AM
So they’re bragging about adding 1 layer (785) over 19 years? Great job, Yamaha thumb
Posted By: 9190 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/19/20 11:01 AM
Yes, it's impressive. ) A vivid and illustrative example of how fast manufacturers are striving to improve digital pianos. Well, finally a new series was released, in which something has finally changed in 19 years. )
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/19/20 11:06 AM
Do they reveal the number of layers? My 2005-era CLP240 has three. The top-end CLP280 had five.
Originally Posted by Pete14
So they’re bragging about adding 1 layer (785) over 19 years? Great job, Yamaha thumb
If you can find the layer count in the new CLP700 series, then we can compute the layers-per-year metric.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/19/20 11:10 AM
According to 9190’s source the 785 and 795 now have a whopping 6 layers whilst the rest of the lineup have 5 (for the CFX).
Posted By: 9190 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/19/20 11:14 AM
A bit more information about the new GrandTouch-S action. Also information from the official Yamaha group in response to a question from one of the group members (comparison with NWX action):

"CLP-745 has a GrandTouch-S keyboard:
1) More grading of key weight between lower and upper register.
2) The fulcrum distance is the same as the NWX/GH3X keyboard, but the fulcrum of the white and black keys is in different locations, similar to the keyboard of an acoustic instrument.
3) Stability with full keystroke gives more control over expressiveness."


And they confirmed, that prefix "S" is for "Small".
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/19/20 11:15 AM
So five layers in 2005, and six layers in 2020. That's a growth rate of 0.02 layers per year.

But it might even be less. That five layer figure for 2005 might be pushed back a few years if I had more complete information.

Regardless ... that promotional quote ...
Quote
"Improved timbres and binaural sampling of Yamaha CFX and Bosendorfer Imperial grand pianos by adding additional layers of samples. This makes it possible to extract a greater dynamic range, from soft delicate pianissimo to powerful energetic fortissimo".
... leaves me unimpressed.
Posted By: 9190 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/19/20 11:28 AM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
... leaves me unimpressed.

Me too. But before, there was a discussion here of what are these abstract phrases could mean. So that could mean that one layer was added. ) Well thanks for that at least. )
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/19/20 11:28 AM
I don’t understand this: “the fulcrum distance (GrandTouch-S) is the same as the NWX....but the fulcrum of the white and black keys is in different locations...”

They’re saying the fulcrum distance is the same and different at the same time.
If the fulcrum of ‘the white and black keys’ is in different locations then how can they also say the fulcrum distance is the same (as compared to NWX)?
Posted By: petebfrance Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/19/20 11:32 AM
oh, and what about the 'other pianos?' Yamaha seem to be a bit coy about them.

It would be interesting to know what they are based on, number of layers (and any more information).
There are 4 mentioned in the owner's manual:
- Scarlatti Piano - has 'note off' sampling
- Mozart Piano - no 'note off' sampling
- Beethoven Piano - has 'note off' sampling
- Chopin Piano - no 'note off' sampling

They could be quite nice or.....
Posted By: 9190 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/19/20 12:13 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
I don’t understand this: “the fulcrum distance (GrandTouch-S) is the same as the NWX....but the fulcrum of the white and black keys is in different locations...”

They’re saying the fulcrum distance is the same and different at the same time.
If the fulcrum of ‘the white and black keys’ is in different locations then how can they also say the fulcrum distance is the same (as compared to NWX)?

I clarified this question with them.

Me: "On the one hand, you write that the distance to the fulcrum is the same, but at the same time you also write that the fulcrum for white and black keys are now in different places... It turns out that the distance of some keys (black?) can't be the same. Do I understand correctly that we are talking about the fact that the distance to the fulcrum of the black keys has been increased?"

Yamaha Music | Steinberg: "Yes, that's right. The distance of the white keys to the fulcrum is the same as the NWX/GH3X keyboard. And in the GrandTouch-S keyboard for black keys, it is increased by analogy with the keyboard of an acoustic instrument".

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/19/20 01:02 PM
That makes more sense; thank you, 9190.

It is not common for Yamaha to share much info, so this is a step in the right direction.

Now, if we could just find out if they did indeed improve the GrandTouch action.
Tony from Bonners says ‘the action has been improved....it feels lighter’, but this simply seems to be his perception; perhaps he was feeling a bit stronger on that day, and therefore perceived the keys to be ‘lighter’.
Posted By: 9190 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/19/20 01:02 PM
They shared some more information. Some of this has already been discussed. The discussion there is not in English, and some of the terms are very specific, I do not even find them in dictionaries. Just give a link to Google translator. You can try using a different translator or language.
Posted By: Amirhsol Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/19/20 07:47 PM
Folks, now that Yamaha CLP-775 and CLP-785 make use of touch screens -- meaning they have become totally inaccessible to the visually impaired, do you know if there are alternative ways to modify the pianos' settings and options? Could this be achieved via Bluetooth using some sort of iOS app? And could it control all aspects of the pianos like initiating/stopping recording, altering Piano Room settings, layering the keyboard, etc? With the older interface at least we could initiate many actions via buttons or even alter settings by memorizing important places in the menu interface. But the touch interface offers none of that. And since we're talking about Yamaha, my concern is that some countries (including mine in the Middle East) might not receive the Bluetooth functionality -- similar to what happened with the CLP-6XX series. Yamaha has apparently -- and sadly -- joined Kawai in keeping the visually impaired further away from modern digital pianos! 😞 It's saddening to bid farewell to the best of Yamaha offerings in the CLP range. It might be wishful thinking on my part, but why can't digital piano manufacturers make the touch screen interface accessible to the visually impaired -- like what Apple and Google have done to iPhone and Android phones?
Thanks.
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/19/20 11:31 PM
Many or most of the functions on my ancient Clavinova can be controlled remotely by sending MIDI commands from a computer.
I've sent a few commands that way, and it's not difficult to learn ... just turning local-control on and off.

If these CLP700 series pianos have similar capability, the it wouldn't take much to implement a full set of controls on a computer. Sending MIDI messages is easy.

For me the hard part would be creating a nice user interface.
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/19/20 11:35 PM
Maybe with a fully programmable surface/midi controller in the midi input !?
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/20/20 03:47 AM
Originally Posted by 9190
They shared some more information. Some of this has already been discussed.

May I ask where (website/social media platform etc.) did you discuss this platform?

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/20/20 03:51 AM
Amirhsol,

I expect the CLP-700 models will still be compatible with Yamaha's SmartPianist control app.

I wonder if it may even be technically possible to swap the CLP-775/CLP-785 touchpanel with a CLP-745 control panel, as the interface is essentially the same, just with touch areas where the buttons would normally be.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: Amirhsol Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/20/20 04:03 AM
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Amirhsol,

I expect the CLP-700 models will still be compatible with Yamaha's SmartPianist control app.

I wonder if it may even be technically possible to swap the CLP-775/CLP-785 touchpanel with a CLP-745 control panel, as the interface is essentially the same, just with touch areas where the buttons would normally be.

Kind regards,
James
x
So can SmartPianist control every aspect of the piano -- like switching to other instruments, recording, metronome use, etc? Of course, I should check to see if the app itself is accessible in the first place.
Thanks.
Posted By: Amirhsol Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/20/20 04:06 AM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Many or most of the functions on my ancient Clavinova can be controlled remotely by sending MIDI commands from a computer.
I've sent a few commands that way, and it's not difficult to learn ... just turning local-control on and off.

If these CLP700 series pianos have similar capability, the it wouldn't take much to implement a full set of controls on a computer. Sending MIDI messages is easy.

For me the hard part would be creating a nice user interface.
Do you mean the piano should always be connected to a computer via a cable all the time? Hope it's at least possible via Bluetooth through a smart phone. And can this control something like the volume of the speakers? Since 775 and 785 are button-less, I'm assuming that even something as basic as volume control has become inaccessible to me and other blind people.
Thanks.
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/20/20 09:33 AM
Originally Posted by Amirhsol
Since 775 and 785 are button-less, I'm assuming that even something as basic as volume control has become inaccessible to me and other blind people.

I haven't seen the right cheekblock panel of the CLP-775/CLP-785, however I expect these models use the same power button and master volume slider as their predecessors.

My recommendation would be to contact Yamaha to confirm this and other queries you may have regarding the user interface.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: 9190 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/20/20 09:38 AM
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by 9190
They shared some more information. Some of this has already been discussed.

May I ask where (website/social media platform etc.) did you discuss this platform?

Sorry, but I'm not sure if I'm ready to share this information with you. I know that many pages with leaks and information that forum members share here are blocked thanks to you. ) And some forum participants were even banned, because of the leak provided about upcoming Kawai products, and inflated the problem of Universal scale (his last message for reference). Of course, no one will close that official group, but I don't want them to have any possible problems or stop sharing useful information.

I can only assure you once again that this is a large official Yamaha group on a large well-known social network. I think this information should be enough.
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/20/20 09:49 AM
Originally Posted by 9190
Sorry, but I'm not sure if I'm ready to share this information with you.

Okay, that's fine.

Originally Posted by 9190
I know that many pages with leaks and information that forum members share here are blocked thanks to you.

This is not correct, nor is it relevant to the topic of this thread.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/20/20 08:00 PM
How do you think the price difference between the NV5 and the CLP785PE will be?
Or will the CA99PE be more comparable in price to the CL785PE?
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/20/20 08:42 PM
My take is that the CLP-785PE will be more in line with the CA-99PE.
Personally, I would not pay more than $4,500\$5,000 for either instrument (and that might be pushing it).
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/20/20 10:42 PM
Originally Posted by 9190
Yamaha Music | Steinberg: "Yes, that's right. The distance of the white keys to the fulcrum is the same as the NWX/GH3X keyboard. And in the GrandTouch-S keyboard for black keys, it is increased by analogy with the keyboard of an acoustic instrument".

While the staggered balance rail is a welcome change, I wonder if it has any meaningful impact since it's only the sharps that are lengthened. I've never really had a problems striking black keys even on short pivot DPs, since they're raised and have a lot of leverage. It's the sunken white keys you have to reach between the black keys that present the most problems IMO. Lightening up the black keys doesn't really help with this (but then again, I've never had a problem with the ~21cm pivot length of the GH/NW actions, IMO they're adequate, if not class leading.

Originally Posted by Pete14
Now, if we could just find out if they did indeed improve the GrandTouch action.
Tony from Bonners says ‘the action has been improved....it feels lighter’, but this simply seems to be his perception; perhaps he was feeling a bit stronger on that day, and therefore perceived the keys to be ‘lighter’.

Tony's gone to the extraordinary step (at least for a retailer "review" video) of breaking out gram weights to demonstrate how the original GrandTouch action was heavy. So I wouldn't be surprised if he does the same with the "new/improved" GrandTouch.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/20/20 11:31 PM
It would be nice if Tony did the same kind of ‘weighing’ with the CLP-785 indeed.
Now, some people also complained about an unnatural on/off ‘clicky’ feel to the keys amongst other things, so it seems like the complains regarding the GrandTouch went beyond the keys being heavy.

I never played the action, and of course there will always be someone who finds this action too heavy and the other too bouncy, whilst someone else finds this one too light and the other too fluffy, but the GrandTouch action has been one of the most collectively hated actions in this forum, so it made me wonder if it was more than just subjectivity when people said ‘there’s something wrong with this action’; and some of these were people who seemed to like the NWX.

Hopefully Yamaha has been listening and improving the GrandTouch action over the last three years (assuming there truly was something ‘wrong’ with it).
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/21/20 12:08 AM
Agreed, Pete.
I would like to see reviews talking about this new way of distributing the speakers inside the piano and how much impact those transducers made....if was a sound/touch change or just touch (almost like rumble pack in the N64..LOL hehehe)
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/25/20 12:51 PM
I noticed Yamaha is now ‘modeling’ duplex scaling instead of aliquot; is this better? Why not keep aliquot alongside the duplex scaling? Would this be redundant?
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/25/20 02:52 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
I noticed Yamaha is now ‘modeling’ duplex scaling instead of aliquot; is this better? Why not keep aliquot alongside the duplex scaling? Would this be redundant?
I have to wonder how much of a difference either really is!
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/25/20 03:56 PM
The string, damper, and body modeled resonances do make a difference, but I also wonder how much of a difference duplex and aliquot make.

It would’ve been nice if Yamaha modeled the decay, but I’m guessing it’s just a matter of time before they go full modeling; 5 years, give or take?
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/25/20 04:27 PM
When I search (Google), Yamaha CFX Aliquot, the only answer with all these terms are about Clavinova which does support it. Then I don’t think the CFX has aliquot strings, but there are always undamped strings in the treble.

About the duplex scales, on a photo, I see that half the strings are damped on the non-speaking portion. And for other strings, these portions are very short (I don’t expect many added partials excepted in the higher pitches).
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/25/20 04:36 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
The string, damper, and body modeled resonances do make a difference, but I also wonder how much of a difference duplex and aliquot make.

Oh, resonances do make sense. The thing is, I'm not sure whether there is any difference between "aliquot resonance" and "duplex scaling." Isn't it the same thing--the use of aliquots or frames to tune the "non-speaking" portion of struck strings rather than mute them with felt runners?

Also, I don't think any current Yamaha or Bosendorfer actually uses true aliquot stringing (a non-struck, non-damped 4th [or extra] string per note), and I don't think "aliquot resonance" has generally been used to apply to true aliquot stringing.

My meta point is that there is so much effort spent in fine-tuning these relatively minor features such as aliquot/duplex resonances, but generally, full-scale piano resonances are IMO sorely lacking. Leave any 1yo kid in a room with a piano and what happens? They stomp the damper pedal and smash all the key over and over. There's a HUGE wall of sound that crashes and grows and rings out, louder and louder and louder. It's a cacophony of complex interactions, and even if you play "properly" you always need to modulate the damper more on an acoustic in order to avoid overpowering the music with a sloshy, muddy mess. That characteristic of an acoustic is so pronounced that you can immediately hear and identify it even in a low-fidelity Zoom meeting. No DP or VST even comes close to an old spinet in this regard, the resonances are too weak, hollow, and individualized. So I just find it funny that generation after generation, there's a little fine tuning here and there but the elephant in the room gets ignored.

IMO, Kawai's SK-EX Rendering takes quite a big step in the right direction here, but it's heavily biased to the treble range (as it emphasizes resonances from the top undamped octaves) and makes the top end sound quite bright in many rendering characters.

Originally Posted by Pete14
It would’ve been nice if Yamaha modeled the decay, but I’m guessing it’s just a matter of time before they go full modeling; 5 years, give or take?
Hearkening back to Roland SuperNATURAL in the RD-700NX? Who knows where Yamaha/Kawai/Casio/Korg/Dexibell will go with this. I really have high hopes for modeling, but sampling is so mature now that it's hard for new technology to make headway just on the basis of a higher potential "ceiling."
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/25/20 05:43 PM
Amazed with Novus nv5 speaker system+soundboard.
And this, only thru yotuube.
Soundboard/vibrating feedback will be the next thing in DP.
Probably a common thing in the next few years.
Posted By: JackQ89 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/25/20 07:07 PM
The Clp 745 Finally came out to my counry, I am not going to buy it, I already bought LX 705 recently, but going to test it out from stores, from the reading it has nice features I want to test out.
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/25/20 07:10 PM
Spoke to a guy in Instagram, that already have the Clp 785.
He said that even the 735, compared to 600 higher models, sounded a lot better because of the new recordings/sound system.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/25/20 07:19 PM
Did he say anything about the action?
Posted By: JackQ89 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/25/20 07:30 PM
I really hope roland going to announce new series soon as well.
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/25/20 07:33 PM
He said that it's more responsive than 685. Don't know about his piano skills to proper answer some questions. His emphasis was on the sound difference between the 600 x 700.
It's a nice guy from HK that has the only picture of a 785 at home on Instagram...
Truly speaking, we have to see a lot of reviews to confirm some suspicions.
Lets wait, wait, wait, wait.. (laugh)
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/25/20 07:35 PM
I doubt it.
Roland released the LX 7xx at the end of 2018 and HP 7XX last year
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/25/20 07:53 PM
You know, I’ve been trashing Yamaha about the so-called ‘improvements’ claimed for the CLP-7XX, but then I went and looked back all the way to the CLP480/585/685, and it seems like all of those use the same RGE, so all kidding aside, perhaps the RGE2 really is an improvement? Since it is 3 generations apart (about 9 years) from the 480; which I believe was the first model with RGE.

Also, the fact that they felt it necessary to record new samples could be an indicator that some real changes have taken place; not to mention a new speaker configuration which Yamaha claims simulates the sound imaging of a grand piano.

It remains to be confirmed, but if the CLP7XX sounds better than the previous generation (which already sounded fairly good) then that’s a good thing.

I hope we get more hands-on reviews on the action, literally! (It’s literal because ‘hands’ need to be ‘on’ the keys for proper assessment; you get it?) wink
Posted By: ebonykawai Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/25/20 09:31 PM
Originally Posted by Otavio
Spoke to a guy in Instagram, that already have the Clp 785.
He said that even the 735, compared to 600 higher models, sounded a lot better because of the new recordings/sound system.

Did they totally resample the CFX and the Bösendorfer? I’m kind of excited to try these out!
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/25/20 10:40 PM
Yes, the samples are newly recorded for the CLP-7XX.
Posted By: Mickey_ Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/25/20 10:48 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
Yes, the samples are newly recorded for the CLP-7XX.

Pete14, half-seriously, half-jokingly: Are you in the market for a Clavinova? Or just lurking around? (I remember that you were heavily anticipating the CLP-7XX upgrade, that's why I'm asking.)
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/25/20 10:55 PM
I’m more curious than anything at the time, but yes, I wouldn’t mind upgrading from my P-515, but it would have to be for more than just a pretty cabinet because my little truck (P-515) is already very good.

I’m also curious about how the new CLP-785 will compare to the NU1X; especially in the ‘sound’ department. You see, despite the NU1X only having four speakers, a lot of people preferred its ‘sound’ over the CLP-685; which has 7 speakers.
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/25/20 11:11 PM
Yeah, NU1x, at least in the videos, sound more open.

Speaker Position?
Same samples?
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/25/20 11:45 PM
I don’t think it has to do with speaker position. The truth is there’s only so much that can be done with four speakers tucked into a relatively large cabinet.

The speaker positioning of the NU1X looks fairly common (two medium-sized speakers below, facing the knees, and two tweeters further up with a few ‘escapement‘ ports); really nothing fancy, so I remain mystified.

For some perspective, the CLP-380 has 8 speakers; two of which are placed on the top-back of the piano (left/right) facing the wall. The remaining speakers spread out through the rest of the cabinet. Call me old fashioned, but I truly believe that lots of speakers is the best approach for the upright cabinet form-factor in order for the sound to better ‘escape’ this naturally-occurring cavity.

The grand form-factor is optimal for sound propagation because there is less obstruction. Take, for instance, the N3X; the speakers are completely exposed and this allows for the sound to ‘breath’ uninterrupted and, shall I say, unobstructed.
Posted By: ebonykawai Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/26/20 12:58 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
Yes, the samples are newly recorded for the CLP-7XX.

The shop in Rochester that I frequent said they’d be getting the 700s in September. I can’t wait to hear the Bösie!
Posted By: mwf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/26/20 02:21 PM
Does the yamaha grandtouch action use long key sticks like kawai ca79/ca99? It's not a folded action like for example p515 or cp4?
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/26/20 03:20 PM
Yamaha’s sticks are long indeed, but yes, they’re also tucked-in (folded). What truly matters is whether Yamaha’s tucked-in sticks perform as well as Kawai’s untucked sticks!

What I’m more concerned with is the weight of the GrandTouch sticks/action; I even heard someone say that the sticks weigh in at about 90 grams (at their heaviest); that is simply too heavy for my beaten up hands. They’ve seen better days, my hands.

The rumor is that the current iteration is lighter, but I will only believe this when someone goes and weighs it.
Posted By: mwf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/26/20 03:56 PM
So kawai is non folded? What is difference? Is kawai longer key sticks? Don't fully understand.
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/26/20 04:01 PM
In the 775 preview bonners video, he said that in 700.series,the keys are easy to play near fallboard and the black keys are more balanced with white keys.
Don't know if this is related to the length of the stick
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/26/20 04:09 PM
Originally Posted by mwf
So kawai is non folded? What is difference? Is kawai longer key sticks? Don't fully understand.

Kawai is long no folded. In the tuck difference is. Kawai is longer key sticks; Yamaha is longer pivot in town. Me don’t fully understand also.
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/26/20 04:11 PM
Originally Posted by mwf
So kawai is non folded? What is difference?
Yes Kawai Grand Feel and RMIII are not folded. (But AHA IV is folded).

The factual difference : The hammers are above the key on the opposite side of the fulcrum. Not under the key But what is more interesting is how they feel and you have to test them yourself. It can be subjective : I have no trouble with high-end Yamaha folded keyboard and I can’t say they are inferior than Grand Feel. (But inferior than Avant Grand).
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/26/20 04:12 PM
Originally Posted by mwf
So kawai is non folded? What is difference? Is kawai longer key sticks? Don't fully understand.

It's just how they build the lever. There's nothing wrong with a "folded" action, but it's undeniably more complex than a simple lever, which is how an acoustic piano's keysticks work. Kawai's higher end wooden key actions use a long (unfolded) wooden keystick that tilts on a central balance rail. They're quite well-regarded as realistic feeling. For manufacturers that offer both folded and non-folded actions, the folded ones are used in more lower to mid-tier actions, and longer wooden keystick actions are used in higher end actions (see Kawai, Casio). In the case of Yamaha/Roland, they don't currently have full-length wooden key actions, so they use folded actions (some of which have wooden parts) in everything from their lowest to highest end action, short of the AvantGrand.

Originally Posted by Otavio
In the 775 preview bonners video, he said that in 700.series,the keys are easy to play near fallboard and the black keys are more balanced with white keys.
Don't know if this is related to the length of the stick

I think what this means is--if Grandtouch-S, the black keys are "longer" since they are staggered back, and thus are also more balanced with the white keys, so technically both are true at least for the sharps smile
Posted By: EPW Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/26/20 04:31 PM
Quote
I think what this means is--if Grandtouch-S, the black keys are "longer" since they are staggered back, and thus are also more balanced with the white keys, so technically both are true at least for the sharps

Yep taking a page out of Roland Hybrid Grand Keyboard in the LX706 and LX708 pianos. I found both Roland PHA-50 and Hybrid Grand Keyboard actions very enjoyable to play. Will be fun to test out the new Yamaha models when I can.
Posted By: mwf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/26/20 05:06 PM
I heard yamaha uses full length key sticks, longest in any dp, in their grandtouch...

"The greater length of GrandTouch keys give the player MORE leverage, allowing for better expressive control, even at the backs of the keys. This is the same support length found on the Yamaha S3X premium grand piano (as of April 2017), and is the longest support length used on any digital piano."
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/26/20 05:42 PM
Yes, they claim it’s the longest in town, but I wonder if they’re talking about pivot length/distance rather than the length of the entire key?
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/26/20 05:52 PM
@Gombessa : I don’t think it is more complex.

On a folded action, the hammer has a pivot point. The key pushes directly one side of the hammer, which lifts the heavy part of the hammer at the other side of the pivot.

That’s it.

On an unfolded action, there are two parts too : the keystick and the hammer.

The folded action is mostly chosen because it is more compact. And the unfolded action is more comparable in the principle with the grand action. (The feeling mais s another thing).
Posted By: mwf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/26/20 06:14 PM
So would grandtouch on a clp 685 or 775 for example be much improvement over my yamaha cp4 or a p515? If all actions are shortish folded actions? Kawai definetly is with its gf3 action as its clearly a long stick you can feel and its easier to play softly... On my cp4 its more difficult to play softly as you like due to its sudden click as I were in place, hard to explain, just not as balanced, it's more press or not press, not much in between that is achievable with mic control to achieve the sound you want.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/26/20 06:30 PM
This should clear up any confusion with the GrandTouch and such:



https://youtu.be/CmUh9MTY4Yo



You’re welcome!
Posted By: 9190 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/26/20 06:40 PM
Great info! ) There's also an article with lots of pictures:
https://post.smzdm.com/p/672119/
Posted By: JoeT Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/26/20 08:36 PM
Originally Posted by 9190
Today, in one of the official Yamaha groups in one of the social networks, where the new CLP-700 series was described, I came across a fragment that was not mentioned in other official materials:

"Improved timbres and binaural sampling of Yamaha CFX and Bosendorfer Imperial grand pianos by adding additional layers of samples. This makes it possible to extract a greater dynamic range, from soft delicate pianissimo to powerful energetic fortissimo".
The binaural sample on my P-515 is a single layer sample, which is the reason why I switch to the five layer stereo sample even when using headphones.

So additional binaural sample layers are a welcome change.
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/26/20 10:08 PM
Originally Posted by 9190
Today, in one of the official Yamaha groups in one of the social networks, where the new CLP-700 series was described, I came across a fragment that was not mentioned in other official materials:

"Improved timbres and binaural sampling of Yamaha CFX and Bosendorfer Imperial grand pianos by adding additional layers of samples. This makes it possible to extract a greater dynamic range, from soft delicate pianissimo to powerful energetic fortissimo".


Very nice upgrade.
It seems that Yamaha did a nice improvement in this CLP 700, at least on paper.
Posted By: JackQ89 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/27/20 03:35 AM
How long is the grandtouch on CLP 700 comapred to the 600 series?
Posted By: TrollToddington Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/27/20 09:40 AM
It seems the 785 is not available yet. At Thomann I can see the range only up to the 775. Besides, the price of 775 is very close to that of the NU1X. Unless there are some features that make sensible difference, I see no reason to go for the 775 or 785. I wish they did not cancel the Musikmesse as it used to be the perfect place where one can play all the pianos. Guess the next year’s one will be postponed, too...
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/27/20 11:13 AM
Originally Posted by JackQ89
How long is the grandtouch on CLP 700 comapred to the 600 series?

https://youtu.be/CmUh9MTY4Yo
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/27/20 03:32 PM
Originally Posted by Frédéric L
@Gombessa : I don’t think it is more complex.

On a folded action, the hammer has a pivot point. The key pushes directly one side of the hammer, which lifts the heavy part of the hammer at the other side of the pivot.

That’s it.

On an unfolded action, there are two parts too : the keystick and the hammer.

The folded action is mostly chosen because it is more compact. And the unfolded action is more comparable in the principle with the grand action. (The feeling mais s another thing).

I think we're saying slightly different things. In terms of physics and levers, yes they may be equivalent. But in reality, I think folded action typically IS more complex. You need a hinge (sometimes lubricated) for the key on a folded action. You might have a leaf spring on some actions to help with key return. The hammer might be actuated up closer to the fallboard, or right by the keyslip, and might be facing different directions. The sensors may be tripped directly by the keys, or by the hammer shank. The hammer might be captured, or free-flying. You often need a foam strip and a hook at the front of the key to dampen the key return, etc.

On an unfolded action, you could technically have many of these variances, but you rarely do. It's usually just a long keystick on balance rail and a hammer on the other side.
Posted By: JackQ89 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/27/20 05:40 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
Originally Posted by JackQ89
How long is the grandtouch on CLP 700 comapred to the 600 series?

https://youtu.be/CmUh9MTY4Yo
I don't speak japanese.. I will glad for some translations, subtitles, thanks
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/27/20 05:46 PM
More possible option doesn’t make it more complex by itself.

But some features can make a given implementation more complex. The possibly to change easily a GH (Yamaha) key probably makes the design more complex.

Yes, hinge can be more complex, but molded pieces could be cheaper to produce than wooden keysticks (but now, with wooden folded keyboards, we have some complex pieces to make.
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/27/20 06:39 PM


I really liked what i hear, sound less boxy than previous generations.
Posted By: MarkL Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/27/20 07:32 PM
That guy is Graham Blackledge, he was on Britain's Got Talent playing the organ, he was hilarious. He should have been a standup comedian.
Posted By: Raekon Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/28/20 12:04 PM
Originally Posted by Otavio


I really liked what i hear, sound less boxy than previous generations.
Yeah, honestly I couldn’t care less about counterweight or whatever small difference there is in action or other areas, I’m pretty sure I can adapt quite quickly to any of these actions. At the end of the day I have to play this thing and enjoy it, and to me there is NOTHING that sounds as good as Yamaha pianos for the type of music I play. If you are purely into classical music then Kawai is a good choice too, but for me, it’s not even close. The sound of the Yamaha is just too good, modern and unique to give up. Unless someone comes out with a product that is vastly better or radically cheaper, I’m never gonna change to something else.
Posted By: TrollToddington Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/29/20 05:26 AM
Originally Posted by Otavio


I really liked what i hear, sound less boxy than previous generations.
Now you’re gonna hear the piano Mozart used to play [plays Beethoven’s “Für Elise”] I mean, the general public barely makes a difference between Mozart and Beethoven but in my opinion this is a really bad demo.
Posted By: Ronaldo777uk Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/30/20 10:10 AM
Originally Posted by JackQ89
Originally Posted by Pete14
Originally Posted by JackQ89
How long is the grandtouch on CLP 700 comapred to the 600 series?

https://youtu.be/CmUh9MTY4Yo
I don't speak japanese.. I will glad for some translations, subtitles, thanks

I understood 'Grand Piano' several times..
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/30/20 06:17 PM
Finally, a review:

Clp 735/745/765gp review
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/30/20 06:34 PM
" As with all brands, Yamaha uses some "marketing" terminology in trying to promote these new pianos as the "perfect" digital pianos...and while they do have some notable improvements in them, they are not perfect....but no digital piano out there is perfect when it comes to replicating the playing experience of a real acoustic piano. However, with the improvements in the key action for the 3 piano models that we are talking about here, this is the first time in many, many years that Yamaha has made any significant changes at all in the key action so this is definitely a big step for them."
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/30/20 07:01 PM
I just noticed Yamaha doubled the Wattage from 25 (645) to 50 (745); however, the speaker size and quantity (4) remains the same.

Other than loudness, how can the higher wattage improve on the overall sound quality/dispersion, etc?

Yamaha claims to have ‘repositioned’ the speakers for the new models, but I wonder just how much repositioning can be done with four speakers tucked into a somewhat large cabinet?

Perhaps the speaker ‘repositioning’ is only for the upper models with 6/7 speakers?
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/30/20 07:20 PM
775 had upgraded wattage too.
785, not.

All models have this new speaker placemente layout but 775/785 have transducers too.

I believe that this new "more open" sound in these clavinovas means that, probably, a vst will sound better trought internal speakers than previous models.
Thats really exciting since its hard to get the vst sounds good trough internal speaker, they always sound boxy and muffled
Lets see!!!
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/30/20 08:23 PM
Yes, let’s wait and see; hopefully this all translates into something real and not just empty rhetoric from Yamaha.
Posted By: TexasBear Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/31/20 03:05 PM
What is the purpose of the transducers? Do they just create a physical vibration? And I don't understand the wattage either. How can you have a 300 watt sound system powered by a 60 watt AC adapter?
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 08/31/20 04:07 PM
I’m also curious about the transducer(s). it seems like it will both vibrate and create some sort of ambient sound. Yamaha lists the transducer(s) alongside the speakers; this is why I believe it’ll be used for more than just good vibrations. But I may be wrong, so we’ll have to wait and see.
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/03/20 02:11 PM
Posted By: mareg Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/03/20 03:47 PM
Oh my heart I want a CLP-775 sooo very bad. I might wait in line at my local shop once they finally receive their shipment sometimes before the end of the year hopefully.
Posted By: mwf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/03/20 04:44 PM
That guy in video is too enthusiastic and I never trust that, also he's on about how tight availability will be... Don't make me laugh. You'll always be able to get one, they order it if not in stock anyway, like its going to be difficult to get one, digital pianos don't sell like hotcakes anywhere in the world.
Posted By: mareg Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/03/20 05:17 PM
Originally Posted by mwf
That guy in video is too enthusiastic and I never trust that, also he's on about how tight availability will be... Don't make me laugh. You'll always be able to get one, they order it if not in stock anyway, like its going to be difficult to get one, digital pianos don't sell like hotcakes anywhere in the world.

I don't know man. With the Covid situation there is already heavy delays in shipment. Not sure when and how many the distributors will get in different Countries / Regions. My local shop told me to expect nothing before the end of October at the earliest. And then there is the question of the color choice. Ash White might be a color to go for this time. Or perhaps Dark Rosewood. I'm not that sure you'll be able to just go to the brick and mortar and come back home right away with a new CLP-700.
Posted By: Tozen Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/03/20 06:29 PM
The CLP 775 sounds really good. It definitely seems better than the 745, although it's hard to gauge how good the 745 is based off the videos we've had posted so far. The superior sound is mostly due to the speaker system though, right? Would it be fair to think that the different 700 series models will sound the same over headphones and through WAV recordings? I didn't see any other hidden "sound processing" feature when comparing specs, so I'm assuming that their core sound engine/samples will be the same.
Posted By: mareg Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/03/20 08:16 PM
Originally Posted by Tozen
The CLP 775 sounds really good. It definitely seems better than the 745, although it's hard to gauge how good the 745 is based off the videos we've had posted so far. The superior sound is mostly due to the speaker system though, right? Would it be fair to think that the different 700 series models will sound the same over headphones and through WAV recordings? I didn't see any other hidden "sound processing" feature when comparing specs, so I'm assuming that their core sound engine/samples will be the same.

Correct. If you are primarly playing with headphones, the upgraded speakers of the 775 aren't really a reason to upgrade from the 745. Technically, the sound comming out of the headphones should be the same. They share the same sampling and the sames voices.

However, there are other upgrades from the 745 to the 775. The action is much different for a start.
Than you have the control panel that is a nice upgrade with touch capacitive screen and it also blends with the DP much better.
Also the damper pedal is upgraded.

I might be missing some things.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/03/20 08:21 PM
It seems like the 775 will not be available in the USA.
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/03/20 09:29 PM
Originally Posted by mareg
Correct. If you are primarly playing with headphones, the upgraded speakers of the 775 aren't really a reason to upgrade from the 745. Technically, the sound comming out of the headphones should be the same. They share the same sampling and the sames voices.

However, there are other upgrades from the 745 to the 775. The action is much different for a start.
Than you have the control panel that is a nice upgrade with touch capacitive screen and it also blends with the DP much better.
Also the damper pedal is upgraded.

I might be missing some things.
The cabinet is also slightly higher due to the added speakers facing the player. Hence, the music rest too, which makes reading sheet music a little easier.
Posted By: mareg Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/03/20 10:27 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
It seems like the 775 will not be available in the USA.
Wow you are right ! I had assumed all of North America would have the same linup. Here in Canada, we get all the CLP 700 models. At least acording to the official Canadian Yamaha website and my local shop. I wonder why USA gets the shaft ? A conspiracy theory would be that there is very little difference between the 70 and 80 for this particular line of Clavinovas. And the price difference is quite considerable. I mean, spruce cone speakers and conterweights ? Are they really worth more than a 1000 bucks ?

CLP 775B is 4 199,00$ CAD
CLP 785B is 5 199,00$ CAD

When you factor the taxes (15%) in my state(province), it is a lot more costly.
Dang, Pete! For a second I thought you were being facetious again, but it appears you're right! That's pretty wild and doesn't seem to make sense. Unless it's coming later? But even the official website doesn't include it. Weird.

I don't know if it's true for places in Canada, but you can buy from places in the USA and avoid the tax depending on where you live/have it shipped to. (The Piano Guys store and Faust Harrison come to mind) So that can somewhat mitigate damages, as it were. But the point still stands. A pretty big leap from the 745 to the 785 pricewise.
Posted By: TrollToddington Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/04/20 04:46 AM
Well, that’s a much better presentation, though the sound of the piano has clearly not been recorded through the iPhone’s microphone. For one thing he’s right - one should go to the store and play it. I got the 575and I regret it - the instrument has crucial shortcomings - dull sounding speakers, heavy keyboard, distorted piano samples (it sounds distorted even on recordings). If they’ve fixed these problems in the new models I may go for it. Things to check:
- keyboard playability
- distorted piano samples
- how the speakers sound when playing (for example) Lady Gaga over bluetooth.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/04/20 09:07 AM
I agree on the “counterweights and spruce cone speakers” not being a big deal. Some even think that counterweights in digital pianos are counterintuitive!

For me, the X75 has always presented the sweet spot, but perhaps Yamaha now thinks it’s too sweet for us, USAnians. It also doesn’t hurt that there are more finishes available for the X75. Personally, I like the rosewood.

Now, let’s hope this is just some Yamaha marketing trickery of sorts; and that the CLP-775 will eventually be available in the USA!
Posted By: 9190 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/04/20 10:13 PM
There are already first owners of the new series. For example, in this comment on YouTube, the person shares his experience of choice.
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/05/20 07:51 AM
Just managed to try out the 745 and 775 at my local store so here's my first impression.

The action on the 775 no longer has that awkward resistance in its down travel compared to the 675. It feels extra good to play now. However, it is still a really heavy action. I would like to believe that those who favor heavy actions are going to love this.

On the other hand, the GrandTouch-S on the 745 is significantly lighter than the NWX on the 645. The response is so good and it felt like my fingers could dance on the keyboard. It's easy to play near the fall board despite the shorter key sticks. It feels pretty close to the action of the AvantGrand N1X, but the N1X is probably heavier by just a little.

Sound wise, there isn't a world of difference from the 600 series but they do feel less muffled.
Posted By: PlsDontShootMe Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/05/20 08:36 AM
Originally Posted by Beowulf
Just managed to try out the 745 and 775 at my local store so here's my first impression.

The action on the 775 no longer has that awkward resistance in its down travel compared to the 675. It feels extra good to play now. However, it is still a really heavy action. I would like to believe that those who favor heavy actions are going to love this.

On the other hand, the GrandTouch-S on the 745 is significantly lighter than the NWX on the 645. The response is so good and it felt like my fingers could dance on the keyboard. It's easy to play near the fall board despite the shorter key sticks. It feels pretty close to the action of the AvantGrand N1X, but the N1X is probably heavier by just a little.

Sound wise, there isn't a world of difference from the 600 series but they do feel less muffled.
Now THIS is a useful review!! You're the first person to actually state in no uncertain terms whether the GrandTouch-S really is significantly lighter than the GrandTouch. Thank you for your honest opinion.
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/05/20 09:40 AM
It’s a good news they got rid of the initial resistance.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/05/20 11:17 AM
If the GrandTouch-S is indeed lighter than the NWX, I pass. I would probably like the ‘improved’ GrandTouch better.

I also read something about an abnormal ‘clicking’ feel to the keys in the original GrandTouch action; I wonder if that’s the same ‘initial resistance’ CG refers to.

Regarding the sound, it’s fascinating how different people perceive different things. One person ‘said’ that even the 735 sounded better than the old 685; another (dealer review) said something even more enthusiastic about the new vs. the old; however, he’s a salesman, so make what you will about his ‘review’. Beowulf perceives no significant improvement in sound other than a ‘less muffled’ experience.

Now, the question is: How would the 785 compare with the NU1X? It seems like the 685 did not fare well against the NU1X (in terms of sound).
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/05/20 11:20 AM
Originally Posted by Beowulf
Just managed to try out the 745 and 775 at my local store so here's my first impression.

The action on the 775 no longer has that awkward resistance in its down travel compared to the 675. It feels extra good to play now. However, it is still a really heavy action. I would like to believe that those who favor heavy actions are going to love this.

On the other hand, the GrandTouch-S on the 745 is significantly lighter than the NWX on the 645. The response is so good and it felt like my fingers could dance on the keyboard. It's easy to play near the fall board despite the shorter key sticks. It feels pretty close to the action of the AvantGrand N1X, but the N1X is probably heavier by just a little.

Sound wise, there isn't a world of difference from the 600 series but they do feel less muffled.


Nice initial impressions! Good to hear that Yamaha listened their costumers about the action problems*
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/05/20 02:18 PM
Posted By: mwf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/05/20 02:54 PM
Find that guy a bit silly and slightly patronising tbh. Enthusiastic, yeah, but it's put on a bit. Can't stand the way they talk about how they 'somehow' miraculously found chopin's or mozart's original sounding pianos and 'somehow' sampled them lol, like that was hard and is some kind of cutting edge tech Yamaha have come up with, like the samples are anything over 1mb each.

Interesting about 775 being slightly lighter, less downforce. I suspect the 785 will be lighter and more easy to play with the counterweights in, to me personally they make a huge difference in key actions I've tried.
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/05/20 03:17 PM
I prefer a lighter touch, so for me the 745 or 785(775 with counters).
I just want to know, along the reviews, if 785 worth the price of 2 745’s.....
Posted By: mwf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/05/20 03:29 PM
I doubt it, however the speaker system will be vastly greater though so nice if you want it for vst playing etc.. Otherwise i think 745 is more than enough for most people. Fortunately my budget allows me to get the 785 on this occasion so i am set on that, just prefer the extra luxury, that's all I reckon it will be.
Posted By: PlsDontShootMe Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/05/20 06:05 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
If the GrandTouch-S is indeed lighter than the NWX, I pass. I would probably like the ‘improved’ GrandTouch better.

So is the GrandTouch action actually improved over the previous GrandTouch action? In what way? (And not described in salesman gobbledygook).

Beowulf (or anyone else), have you tried the “older” GrandTouch actions, from the CLP-685 / CLP-695 / CVP-809 ? Is the action in the CLP-775 noticeably different from those models?
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/05/20 07:21 PM
I don’t know if Yamaha has officially stated that the GrandTouch action has been improved, so as of now it remains a perception, this improvement.

Now, based on these newly presented perceptions, the action is now supposedly lighter and at least one person says that the so-called ‘initial resistance’ that apparently was bad is now gone.

I’ve come across initial resistance in the past and with some patience and gobbledygook I’ve been able to convince the opposing party that there is no need to resist, but somehow I believe that the ‘initial resistance’ mentioned here is a different kind of resistance. It remains to be seen why the GrandTouch ‘initially’ resists!
The new BORG DP150 has marketing stating "Resistance is futile". I believe it has assimilated the best of all digital pianos! I eagerly await the review from Locutus.
Posted By: ebonykawai Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/05/20 07:30 PM
Originally Posted by Beowulf
Just managed to try out the 745 and 775 at my local store so here's my first impression.

The action on the 775 no longer has that awkward resistance in its down travel compared to the 675. It feels extra good to play now. However, it is still a really heavy action. I would like to believe that those who favor heavy actions are going to love this.

On the other hand, the GrandTouch-S on the 745 is significantly lighter than the NWX on the 645. The response is so good and it felt like my fingers could dance on the keyboard. It's easy to play near the fall board despite the shorter key sticks. It feels pretty close to the action of the AvantGrand N1X, but the N1X is probably heavier by just a little.

Sound wise, there isn't a world of difference from the 600 series but they do feel less muffled.

Awesome info!! What’s your opinion on the difference between the NWX action on the 645 and the new updated action on the 775? I love the NWX action just as it is, I’m wondering how I’ll like the 775 action. Thanks!
Posted By: ebonykawai Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/05/20 07:32 PM
Originally Posted by Otavio
Nice initial impressions! Good to hear that Yamaha listened their costumers about the action problems*

YES
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/05/20 07:35 PM
I agree with BORG, resistance is indeed futile!

Now, let’s keep in mind that the GrandTouch only resists ‘initially’; this implies that the action, if treated with respect, eventually gives in. Why this action is so stubborn and at least initially resists, remains a mystery; however, the rumor on the streets is that the new action is much easier to get along with as long as it likes you; if it doesn’t like you it will permanently resist through a self-locking mechanism. So yes, be gentle to the new GrandTouch and it shall not resist! grin
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/05/20 11:46 PM
Originally Posted by PlsDontShootMe
So is the GrandTouch action actually improved over the previous GrandTouch action? In what way? (And not described in salesman gobbledygook).

Beowulf (or anyone else), have you tried the “older” GrandTouch actions, from the CLP-685 / CLP-695 / CVP-809 ? Is the action in the CLP-775 noticeably different from those models?
From what I recall, I did not feel that the added counterweights made much of a difference to the 685 than the 675. The 775 has a bouncier release than its predecessor.

Originally Posted by ebonykawai
Awesome info!! What’s your opinion on the difference between the NWX action on the 645 and the new updated action on the 775? I love the NWX action just as it is, I’m wondering how I’ll like the 775 action. Thanks!
It's been a long time since I played on the 645 so I can't recall exactly how it felt but if you like heavy actions, I suspect you are going to enjoy the 775. It's really smooth to play!
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/06/20 12:28 AM
Comparing N1X key with the new Grandtouch S indicates that Yamaha nailed this time....
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/06/20 02:26 PM
I already posted this link here but i think that was updated with some new information that confirms what Beowulf sad about Groundtouch-Short Wooden on 745


AZ PIANO REVIEWS 735 745 765gp

"On the CLP-745, the key action with the white wood keys is much lighter and easier to play than on the previous CLP-645 model, with the Yamaha CLP-745 digital piano static down-weight and up-weight being noticeably reduced to improve playability and faster key movement. I really enjoyed playing this model and the key movement felt very natural to me and much more so than I have ever felt on any previous Yamaha Clavinova model. "
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/06/20 02:44 PM
So, Tim pretty much confirms my senses weren't fooling my brain with regards to the 745. To be honest, I was not expecting much of Yamaha after seeing the GrandTouch name being reused for the new models, but the GrandTouch-S truly blew me away. I give my early congratulations to all the future 745 owners out there. You're all going to love this piece of instrument smile
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/06/20 03:19 PM
But it’s all subjective, isn’t it?

The ‘review’ says that the white keys for the 745 are somehow lighter and easier to play as compared to the 645, right?

Well, I own the P-515; which uses the same action as the 645, and first, I love it; second, I would not like it to be any lighter/easier than that.

So yes, to him the new S variant is a ‘joy’ to play; for me it would not be the case; once again confirming the subjectiveness of it all.
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/06/20 03:46 PM
Beowulf...
How was your impression with transducers on 775 ?!
Posted By: PlsDontShootMe Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/06/20 05:21 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
But it’s all subjective, isn’t it?

The ‘review’ says that the white keys for the 745 are somehow lighter and easier to play as compared to the 645, right?

Well, I own the P-515; which uses the same action as the 645, and first, I love it; second, I would not like it to be any lighter/easier than that.

So yes, to him the new S variant is a ‘joy’ to play; for me it would not be the case; once again confirming the subjectiveness of it all.

Interesting. It looks like Yamaha is intentionally attempting the “Goldilocks” method of product marketing, spread out over several years: 1) produce something much too heavy for many; 2) produce something much too light for many; to be ultimately followed in the next product cycle by 3) the GrandTouch-JR or “Just Right.”
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/06/20 07:26 PM
Slightly off topic, but I recently noticed a peculiar difference between the NU1X and the CLP-685/785:

As we all know, these instruments are priced similarly and basically look identical, so the comparisons are inevitable. Of course, the action is the biggest difference, and most would say that the real acoustic upright action has the edge over any simulation (debatable, I assume).

My recent observation has to do with the cabinet/speaker grill. I noticed that the NU1X’s bottom speakers are covered by a cloth grill that only extends about halfway down; the rest (down to the floor) is a solid piece. Conversely, the 685/785 has a cloth grill that runs all the way down to the ground. I wonder if this apparently small difference in design could have an impact on the sound dispersion/reverberation.

Could this be why the NU1X is usually preferred in terms of sound dispersion/clarity/reverberation over the 685/785, or is this simply a cosmetic aspect that has no effect on the sound?

If it’s purely cosmetic, I wonder why Yamaha would spend more money on a solid lower half (NU1X) instead of going full cloth grill (685/785) when the reality is that it doesn’t really look any better. Once again, could it be that this solid bottom is the reason for the NU1X’s better sound (reverberation)?



P.S.

Obviously, we have not had a chance to compare the 785 with the NU1X, but I included this model because the cabinet/speaker grill design is identical to the 685.
Posted By: ebonykawai Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/06/20 11:53 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
Well, I own the P-515; which uses the same action as the 645, and first, I love it; second, I would not like it to be any lighter/easier than that.

So yes, to him the new S variant is a ‘joy’ to play; for me it would not be the case; once again confirming the subjectiveness of it all.

Ditto. I love the 645 action and wouldn't change it for the world. I'm so glad I got this before it disappeared. I honestly think this action is just perfect.
Posted By: Tozen Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/07/20 12:24 AM
Here is the first full song I have seen on YouTube played on a 735:

Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/07/20 06:07 AM
Originally Posted by Otavio
Beowulf...
How was your impression with transducers on 775 ?!
The transducers are meant to create some form of vibration to the cabinet right? I did not feel it vibrating any more than the CLP-675.
Posted By: Ronaldo777uk Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/07/20 08:28 AM
I had a play on the CLP-765GP yesterday at the Yamaha store in London, wanted to try out the grandtouch-S. It was ok. Better than the old GH action on the 665GP (I think), but still not a patch on the real thing. It's too light to play IMO, you'd have a shock if you'd only practiced on that and then had to perform classical on a real piano.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/07/20 11:00 AM
Originally Posted by ebonykawai
Originally Posted by Pete14
Well, I own the P-515; which uses the same action as the 645, and first, I love it; second, I would not like it to be any lighter/easier than that.

So yes, to him the new S variant is a ‘joy’ to play; for me it would not be the case; once again confirming the subjectiveness of it all.

Ditto. I love the 645 action and wouldn't change it for the world. I'm so glad I got this before it disappeared. I honestly think this action is just perfect.

It is indeed a great action. I find it super ‘fast’, responsive, and very accommodating physically; so yes, I don’t think it’s heavy in any way, but rather that other actions out there are too light. smile

I’ve pondered about the shallow keydip for the NWX perhaps being one of the reasons why the action is so ‘quick’. It seems like the keydip for the P-515 is closer to the dip of uprights. Yes, I know keydip can be adjusted for acoustics, but it seems like -generally- uprights tend to leave the factory on the shallower side of the keydip.

I remember CG saying that the P-515’s action (NWX) felt similar to the NU1X; that sort of validates my point. The only ‘theoretical’ advantage for the P-515 would be the capability for faster ‘repeats’ due to the third sensor, so in a way it’s the best of both worlds: upright-like keydip; grand-like repetition rate.
Posted By: PlayerkaN Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/07/20 01:04 PM
hello i have a question.
is the action of the 735 better than the action of the 645 or p515? I don't know which one to buy
Posted By: ebonykawai Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/07/20 06:18 PM
Originally Posted by PlayerkaN
hello i have a question.
is the action of the 735 better than the action of the 645 or p515? I don't know which one to buy

I think the best thing to do is test them out for yourself. It's really such an individual decision. Unfortunately, most of us are playing the waiting game with the 700s, as they slowly trickle into shops near us.
Posted By: PlayerkaN Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/07/20 07:11 PM
Originally Posted by ebonykawai
Originally Posted by PlayerkaN
hello i have a question.
is the action of the 735 better than the action of the 645 or p515? I don't know which one to buy

I think the best thing to do is test them out for yourself. It's really such an individual decision. Unfortunately, most of us are playing the waiting game with the 700s, as they slowly trickle into shops near us.

Ok thanks my friend, today I went piano store And i reserved p515, i said to seller Stop order and i want to play clp 735, but they still don't have it
Posted By: ebonykawai Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/08/20 01:14 AM
My shop is saying maybe September, but it might be later in the fall. Hopefully soon, though!
Posted By: PlayerkaN Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/08/20 08:29 AM
Seller from Malasay said to me it:

735 is not wood keys and many slightly light for my liking... 745 is much better.
745 feels more piano-like 645 feels like firm spongy feeling. Most children finds 500 series and 600 series a little too heavy to practice for long time.


which one should I buy? p515 or 735? I had reserved the p515z
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/08/20 09:42 AM
If you're purchasing for really young children, it might be a better idea to start them off on a lighter action first.
Posted By: PlayerkaN Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/08/20 10:18 AM
Originally Posted by Beowulf
If you're purchasing for really young children, it might be a better idea to start them off on a lighter action first.
I am not a child, but if I am a beginner, I had reserved the p515, but I heard that it had a very heavy action, I went to the store and ordered the 735, the 745 very expensive for me
Posted By: terminaldegree Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/08/20 11:10 AM
Almost nobody has played or even seen a 700 series Clavinova, in person on this forum, while a lot of people own the P515, and it seems very well liked. I did not find its action “very heavy”.

Some of the words you’re using from the salesperson to describe the action feel seem contradictory.

I feel like a beginner should start from the exact same action as any other pianist in order to learn to develop tone properly, BTW.

Beowulf— thank you for providing actual, detailed firsthand observations of these new pianos. It’s a really useful addition to a thread that has literally pages on pages of useless discussion that just goes around and around in circles!
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/08/20 11:30 AM
Originally Posted by PlayerkaN
I am not a child, but if I am a beginner, I had reserved the p515, but I heard that it had a very heavy action, I went to the store and ordered the 735, the 745 very expensive for me
I hope you try it out before making a decision. I used to own the CLP-645 which has the exact same action as the P515 and I never found it to be overly heavy. There are certainly actions out there that are heavier than that and you will start finding the NWX action pretty light once you get used to those heavier actions. That was certainly what happened to me when I changed to an acoustic U1.

Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Beowulf— thank you for providing actual, detailed firsthand observations of these new pianos. It’s a really useful addition to a thread that has literally pages on pages of useless discussion that just goes around and around in circles!
I'm glad you found my review useful!
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/08/20 12:10 PM
Originally Posted by Beowulf
Originally Posted by Otavio
Beowulf...
How was your impression with transducers on 775 ?!
The transducers are meant to create some form of vibration to the cabinet right? I did not feel it vibrating any more than the CLP-675.

Humm, interesting...
So, if 785 do not receive amp upgrade(like 745/775), and transducers are not showing its advantages..will be more difficult to explain those price differences
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/08/20 12:24 PM
Originally Posted by terminaldegree
It’s a really useful addition to a thread that has literally pages on pages of useless discussion that just goes around and around in circles!

You're right!
In fact, you just need to trust in your ears and fingers....besides that, it's just online bullshit blah blah blah
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/08/20 01:14 PM
It seems like the prices remain more or less the same (USA) from the 600 to the 700 series. I assume that’s a good thing.

Regarding the online ‘BS’, yes, most of these are sales pitches; however, some of these ‘reviewers’ are a bit more transparent; like Tony from Bonners. He does not hype up as much, and when comparing instruments he simply points out the differences and lets you decide what works for you.

The truth is that even an ‘honest’ review isn’t necessarily a universal truth; it’s simply that person’s truth. Yes, for that person the GF action might be perfect and that is true for that person; for me GF sucks, and that’s my truth.
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/08/20 01:33 PM
Yes, it's only words(even the honest and informative ones) till you tried it with your fingers and ears.
Posted By: 9190 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/08/20 01:53 PM
Perhaps, if I had the opportunity to personally try out instruments that interest me, I would rarely visit this forum (just to find out about the release of certain new products). But as long as I live where I live, I will never have the opportunity to personally try the models that interest me. And I’m not ready to go (or rather, fly) for this 1400 kilometers, spending time and significant money for me. I can buy anything here. But only by pre-order with payment.
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/08/20 02:08 PM
Originally Posted by 9190
Perhaps, if I had the opportunity to personally try out instruments that interest me, I would rarely visit this forum (just to find out about the release of certain new products). But as long as I live where I live, I will never have the opportunity to personally try the models that interest me. And I’m not ready to go (or rather, fly) for this 1400 kilometers, spending time and significant money for me. I can buy anything here. But only by pre-order with payment.

Exactly!
I'm in a small city in Brazil, we used to have very few options available to try, of any musical instrument...and now, after(during) COVID, things will get noticeable worst.

So, forums and YouTube are my way to get in touch with something before actually
Posted By: peterws Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/08/20 07:30 PM
Piano shop 5 minutes away has the latest 700 series in. Looking at the specs, there seems little difference apart from speaker systems. Maybe I could get my bike out . . when it stops raining!
Posted By: peterws Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/08/20 07:37 PM
Originally Posted by PlayerkaN
hello i have a question.
is the action of the 735 better than the action of the 645 or p515? I don't know which one to buy

Personal opinion is GH3 on the 635 inferior to the NWX on the 645. Even when played silent. Don't know why. How that compares to the latest, who know? I may soon find out.
Posted By: kailord Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/08/20 08:05 PM
Could I consult on this dilemma that I have?

My primary purpose is to get a piano for my child to last until Grade 8. And assuming acoustic is not an option currently, but a good digital is possible. Also, I like to play casually.and appreciate a good simulation of the acoustic feel as well. The dilemma is:

Speaking from being a student in the past, I have always felt that exam grade acoustics and the kinds that I end up using in the exam room always were uprights. Only now do I realise it is possible to source for exam centres that have grands, but that may not entirely help because even many piano teachers (including our current one) use uprights.

Therefore it appears I need to get a digital piano that feels a bit more like an upright, while yet maintaining some features of a grand cos ultimately as all of you experienced people rightfully point out, the goal is to hone skills for performing on a grand as well.

Keeping this conflict in mind, in my search for a purchase, and where I live, only yamaha and kawai are options, I narrow down to: CLP-775, CLP-785, CA79, CA99, KDP110. Reasons:

As some have mentioned here, CLP-745 735 have reduced weight which sounds like a good thing for some, but for my purpose I try to compare side by side the weight of yamaha J, U series as well as even yamaha baby and medium grands, and the lighter CLP-745 seem to have gotten too light. I remember 645 was a better match in weight but that's history and it's no longer available.

I'm trying to recheck CA79 CA99 but my most recent feel of CA78 was some sponginess of the start and stop points of the action that were also pointed out in the kawai.thread, so that made CA78 out of.the question. I'll give 79 99 benefit of the doubt and seek to try them again.

Ironically KDP110 fit some of the bill despite it's price. The action had.weight and definition, though no fancy simulations such as escapement. Also, at that price the sound is sacrificed by a weaker bass of.12cm woofers, which means I'd want to spend more towards 785 / CA79 for better sound. Lower end Yamahas didn't seem to put up a fight - there wasn't a gem like KDP110 that surprised me with a good simulation of key action.

Other options: NU1X but it's a little out of price range, it's an upright action which fulfills the above exam requirements but the thought of paying more for a less-grandpiano feel doesn't quite sit well.

Other options: silent piano of similar price range - silent yamaha J series is the only matching price range. Again it's buying upright action fulfilling just exam purposes, paying that point for a non-grand, it's acoustic quality as a low end yamaha upright also I find has been somewhat surpassed by the high end digitals due to advance in sound dispersion, attention to sufficient woofers for low-range reproduction, and low end uprights have some deficiencies in the tonal qualities here and there mainly again in the lower to mid-range. It's digital/silent features are also more limited than the above competition.

Apart from these I am dry of ideas, and assume that used old models are not possible.

And to fine tune the selection, between 775 and.785, I notice most of u are not wow'ed but when I tried the two, the 785 seemed to really be a world of an improvement over 775 (I tried to check whether the salesperson deliberately keyed in settings to.make.the difference artificially more stark but it didn't seem so.) The dispersion of sound did a good job simulating the dispersion of a large physical grand, over a wider space, compared to the 775 which sounds more like the acoustics of an upright that feels more contained within a cabinet in close proximity. But I'd love to hear why 785 didn't wow most.of.you -maybe I missed or misinterpreted what I heard.

And similarly the CA99 I recall tried to do the same dispersion over the CA79 to good effect too.

Really hope to hear your opinions! In an ideal world, I wish to have a grand, learn from a teacher with a grand, take exams on a grand and be satisfied to stop at grade 8 or low diploma with this purchase (not expecting a digital to be used for beyond that). But this sub-ideal world makes it seem necessary to want an upright heavier action as well. I recall my own learning journey - having a low end acoustic, always dreading exams because the better uprights in the exam hall always had a heavy key action that I never got to practise much on, only to discover as an adult that the holy grail is to play on a grand (feel). Please help me sort out this conundrum ? Thanks ! Hope to make.the purchase in a weeks time!
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/08/20 09:21 PM
Nice review

Many of us haven't been able to touch the new 700 series yet.
I believe that soon we will have more detailed reviews about the pianos.

How do you compare the action between 745, 775 and 785, Kailord ?!
Posted By: smashmouth Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/08/20 10:36 PM
I am no expert by any means and my last piano was Korg SP-250 but I was lucky to play CLP 735, 745, 775, 685, 645, Kawai Ca59 and 99, Roland LX 706 today and will share my thoughts anyway because maybe someone will find these helpful.

I have played a grand twice in my life and learned on uprights mainly classical pieces and christmas carols smile and I am not looking for the closest thing to grand or upright but something that feels right to me and would work well for my 6 year old daughter who is eager to learn to play the piano. I am in the hunt for the piano for over a year as I have finally moved in to a bigger apartment that will have room for a furniture piano it's time to buy eventually. I was set to buy Roland Hp 704 but after playing new Yamahas I am leaning to buy CLP 735 or 745 (if I will make a decision that bluetooth is important to me) - playing them just felt right to me.

So the comparisons - indeed the 735 and 745 have lighter action than 645 - the resistance in 645 is closer to my already sold Korg SP-250. 775 felt heavier, but as I don't have so much money I haven't played it a lot so it might be just an initial impression.

The difference between 735 and 745 for me felt more like about the looks and touch of the keyboard - might have been the light but the keys on 745 seemed more white? smile I felt the same pleasure playing both.
Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but 745 bluetooth would be nice if you use apps such as Flowkey app that I think uses bluetooth to connect to the piano. This could help your daughter learn certain songs/pieces in one hand while the piano plays the other part. It basically turns the CLP into a CSP but without the play-a-long lighting system. I'm not sure how the Smart Pianist app connects, I think it's just wirelessly. That said, this all requires a smartphone or iOS/Android tablet. So maybe it doesn't apply at all. But I thought I would just throw that out there.
Posted By: kailord Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/09/20 01:00 AM
Originally Posted by Otavio
Nice review

Many of us haven't been able to touch the new 700 series yet.
I believe that soon we will have more detailed reviews about the pianos.

How do you compare the action between 745, 775 and 785, Kailord ?!
I believe in the specs and when I tried it, 775 785 action is identical except for counterweight. I'm no expert at grand actions but I tried to feel whether any difference - it does seem there is a slight improvement in response or rebound. But the main difference was the speaker dispersion I mentioned, which won me over but I need to relisten before I commit on the extra cash.

745 mainly gave me a light impression. Since I compared side by side with yamaha uprights and grands, it was obvious it was light compared to those acoustics. Based on my criteria of getting a training piano that trains for exam weight, I had to strike it off my list. When I took lessons I was on a lighter acoustic upright and felt difficulty with exam heavier weights so I know I need my child to have same weight as exam models if possible.

Hope someone can enlighten me on this exam concept - it's perplexing and the only way I can explain it is, exams are oriented to favour upright heavier actions due to cost concerns. Even though in the final stretch of training, a performance pianist is gunning for grand action skill.
Posted By: Tozen Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/09/20 01:52 AM
It is interesting to see these comments about light action on the 745 because I have read so many impressions of the 600 series complaining it was too heavy. I have never owned a digital piano better than the p45 and am in the market for my first significant one... But it is hard to know what to think. smile

Hopefully I am enough of a novice that it won't matter for a few years.
Posted By: kailord Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/09/20 01:41 PM
Update on my analysis above, today I re-tried CA79 CA99 to compare. My previous impression was CA99 was "just different" but today I had new impressions:. CA79 is a closer match to the kawai grand (with lid closed) I compared side by side. The (lack of) dispersion on CA79 was similar to the grand. The CA99 ironically had an overpowering bass which resonated the cabinet in excess such that it's even stronger than the grand's resonance! It was an absolute strike off my list just based on that alone. Not sure what the engineers we're aiming for but it's rather off. I have some experience with sound / speakers and I can't figure out it's intended usage.

The key action of 79 and 99 are supposed to be the same. Funny how I detected a slight difference (minimally less definition on 79) but maybe it's just factory variance or the age of the showroom unit that softened the CA79 slightly.

Now looking forward to rechecking CLP to see which matches CA79. And at the back of my mind, the bad press about GF and GF2 makes me hesitant to fully trust GF3, only saving grace is that it's been around for maybe 1.5 years and no reported problems yet.
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/09/20 01:59 PM
Thank you, Kailord !
I think I prefer the key on the light side...
Reading all analysis and reviews before order...
Posted By: 9190 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/09/20 02:23 PM
Originally Posted by kailord
makes me hesitant to fully trust GF3, only saving grace is that it's been around for maybe 1.5 years and no reported problems yet.
GF3 action was presented with announcement of CA79/99 models on January 15, 2020. And they began to be sold even later. And yes, there were some reports.
Posted By: kailord Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/09/20 03:34 PM
Originally Posted by 9190
Originally Posted by kailord
makes me hesitant to fully trust GF3, only saving grace is that it's been around for maybe 1.5 years and no reported problems yet.
GF3 action was presented with announcement of CA79/99 models on January 15, 2020. And they began to be sold even later. And yes, there were some reports.
Ouch ... Half year history with some reports. I haven't trawled entire forum but it didn't seem as worrying as the teflon slip tape issue of the earlier GFs. But it does worry....

And on the Yamaha front, the grand touch 675 685 seemed to have undergone some slight change to become 775 785 so it might not be the exact same animal, but still maybe with the same fundamentals which seemed to have survived 3 years test of time.
Posted By: Tyr Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/09/20 05:03 PM
Originally Posted by kailord
The CA99 ironically had an overpowering bass which resonated the cabinet in excess such that it's even stronger than the grand's resonance! It was an absolute strike off my list just based on that alone. Not sure what the engineers we're aiming for but it's rather off. I have some experience with sound / speakers and I can't figure out it's intended usage.

Uprights usually resonate more, so it makes sense because the Cabinet Design resembles an Upright, not a Grand.
Posted By: Daniel van Veen Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/09/20 06:27 PM
Looking at the current prices, I am wondering what the right moment is to buy Clavinovas. The last price I have seen for the CLP-635 was around 1600 or 1550. The CLP-735 goes for 1999. Am talking Dutch Euros; more or less the price the 645 would go for. I think most of us agree the 645 is to be preferred above the 735.

I bought my CLP-635 PE in May 2019 for 1600. The 735 PE is much more expensive at this moment, while it is not radically different.

Probably the price will come down a bit after some time. So, you would say that only if you are keen on having the latest and greatest, it is better to wait? A year or so?
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/09/20 07:09 PM
In my country, we seldom look for dealers when it comes to Yamaha and simply head down to their outlets for purchase. The price of the 600 series remained almost the same throughout its 3-year cycle (barring occasional seasonal discounts) and only fell significantly when the 700 series was announced.
Posted By: Raekon Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/09/20 07:28 PM
Originally Posted by Daniel van Veen
Looking at the current prices, I am wondering what the right moment is to buy Clavinovas. The last price I have seen for the CLP-635 was around 1600 or 1550. The CLP-735 goes for 1999. Am talking Dutch Euros; more or less the price the 645 would go for. I think most of us agree the 645 is to be preferred above the 735.

I bought my CLP-635 PE in May 2019 for 1600. The 735 PE is much more expensive at this moment, while it is not radically different.

Probably the price will come down a bit after some time. So, you would say that only if you are keen on having the latest and greatest, it is better to wait? A year or so?
That 1999 price seems high. Here in Italy I can buy it for 1735€ with free shipping from two separate huge and reputable online stores. They also ship internationally within the EU for less than 50€ extra. Unless you prefer buying it at a local shop to make it easier with warranty in case there are issues, I would really look into buying internationally and having it shipped if you can’t find it at a price lower than that. I would basically pay almost 300 euros less than you for the same instrument.
Posted By: smashmouth Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/09/20 07:29 PM
Originally Posted by GreatShowmanChopin
Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but 745 bluetooth would be nice if you use apps such as Flowkey app that I think uses bluetooth to connect to the piano. This could help your daughter learn certain songs/pieces in one hand while the piano plays the other part. It basically turns the CLP into a CSP but without the play-a-long lighting system. I'm not sure how the Smart Pianist app connects, I think it's just wirelessly. That said, this all requires a smartphone or iOS/Android tablet. So maybe it doesn't apply at all. But I thought I would just throw that out there.

You are right- this is the funcionality that I want to use myself and my daughter would have lots of fun with it as well, but it seems that a Midi adpater MD-BT01 for ca. 50 USD will let me do that as well smile
Posted By: Daniel van Veen Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/09/20 07:50 PM
Originally Posted by Raekon
That 1999 price seems high. Here in Italy I can buy it for 1735€ with free shipping from two separate huge and reputable online stores. They also ship internationally within the EU for less than 50€ extra. Unless you prefer buying it at a local shop to make it easier with warranty in case there are issues, I would really look into buying internationally and having it shipped if you can’t find it at a price lower than that. I would basically pay almost 300 euros less than you for the same instrument.

Yeah, you are probably right - there is some Belgian shop as well that sells the thing for less than 1800. That sounds reasonable.
On the other hand, I know that one might need to make use of the 5yr warranty, so having a local seller is convenient.
Posted By: YuriPiano Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/09/20 08:10 PM
Hi everyone! I'm new here

So after I looked on some of the threads on this forum and some YouTube videos, in regards of the tone and action of Kawai and Yamaha digital pianos, I've concluded several things :

Tone :
- I think Kawai has a warmer sound, but a little bit "flatter" or less dynamic?
- Yamaha is sharp and bright, but have more dynamics

Action :
- Kawai is lighter
- Yamaha is heavier

Now, I have some questions :
1. It seems like many people here prefer Kawai's lighter actions. However, I personally want to prepare for the keys at the grand piano, and since I played on one for once, I think I gravitate towards Yamaha. My question is that are Yamaha actions that bad? I would prefer heavier actions to better prepare myself for the grand piano, but I also don't want to injure myself

2. I have a hard time deciding which brand I'll choose in regards to piano tone, I like Kawai's warmer sound but in terms of dynamics, I think Yamaha wins??? After seeing YouTube videos???

3. Regarding YouTube videos, by the way I can only rely on YouTube videos and forums to decide between ca99 and clp 785, and based on the videos the Yamaha is clearly brighter. However if any of you have played the Yamaha CLPs in real life, compared to the videos, what are the difference in the tone? I mean, is the tone of Yamaha pianos sound brighter in videos than in real life? Or is it just as bright?

4. Also, regarding the reliability of the build quality of the piano, I heard that ca99 have issues regarding the sound production, like the hissing or rattling speakers. I rarely hear complaints from people regarding Yamaha's speakers in this forum. Also, somehow I tend to trust Yamaha's brand more (maybe because it's so popular in my country? And currently I have Yamaha DGX 620 and I don't hate the sound at all). My question is, is it true that Yamaha is more stable in quality? However, some people said that Kawai is better in this regard, which one is the truth?

Best Regards,
Yuri
Posted By: Raekon Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/09/20 08:30 PM
Originally Posted by YuriPiano
Hi everyone! I'm new here

So after I looked on some of the threads on this forum and some YouTube videos, in regards of the tone and action of Kawai and Yamaha digital pianos, I've concluded several things :

Tone :
- I think Kawai has a warmer sound, but a little bit "flatter" or less dynamic?
- Yamaha is sharp and bright, but have more dynamics

Action :
- Kawai is lighter
- Yamaha is heavier

Now, I have some questions :
1. It seems like many people here prefer Kawai's lighter actions. However, I personally want to prepare for the keys at the grand piano, and since I played on one for once, I think I gravitate towards Yamaha. My question is that are Yamaha actions that bad? I would prefer heavier actions to better prepare myself for the grand piano, but I also don't want to injure myself

2. I have a hard time deciding which brand I'll choose in regards to piano tone, I like Kawai's warmer sound but in terms of dynamics, I think Yamaha wins??? After seeing YouTube videos???

3. Regarding YouTube videos, by the way I can only rely on YouTube videos and forums to decide between ca99 and clp 785, and based on the videos the Yamaha is clearly brighter. However if any of you have played the Yamaha CLPs in real life, compared to the videos, what are the difference in the tone? I mean, is the tone of Yamaha pianos sound brighter in videos than in real life? Or is it just as bright?

4. Also, regarding the reliability of the build quality of the piano, I heard that ca99 have issues regarding the sound production, like the hissing or rattling speakers. I rarely hear complaints from people regarding Yamaha's speakers in this forum. Also, somehow I tend to trust Yamaha's brand more (maybe because it's so popular in my country? And currently I have Yamaha DGX 620 and I don't hate the sound at all). My question is, is it true that Yamaha is more stable in quality? However, some people said that Kawai is better in this regard, which one is the truth?

Best Regards,
Yuri
1) Apparently everything changed with the CLP700s and now many people report yamaha action to be lighter, even too light for some. I wouldn’t worry about that. I was taught on harder pianos so I could play any piano with ease. I promise you that you will adapt to any of these actions just fine, nothing will be so heavy that will injure you or you can’t play it. If anything you could find it too light in my experience. Yamaha action isn’t bad at all, nor is Kawai.
2) The way I see it is Yamaha has a sound that comes more alive than Kawai, which is a more classical piano sound. If you want to play anything but classical music I much prefer Yamaha’s, and you can always use the bosendorfer if you want a warmer tone.
3) Yeah the yamaha is definitely brighter. I haven’t played the new series so I can’t tell you how it is in real life. All I know is that it’s a very pleasing dynamic sound and depending on the microphones used it’s hard to appreciate that.
4) In my country too Yamaha is the gold standard, while Kawai is considered cheap and lower quality products. My personal experience tends to confirm that, yamaha are a quality brand and I never had an issue. On the other hand there are many issues with Kawai keys on this forum, something Yamaha users don’t report as often. If I had to choose based on quality and reliability I’d choose Yamaha.
This probably just adds to the "marketing speak" we've been talking about, but I received the link to these two articles from The Piano Guys when I sent them question regarding the action
Article 1
Article 2
Article 2 has some more technical details regarding the sound system and sampling.
Posted By: YuriPiano Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/09/20 11:07 PM
Originally Posted by GreatShowmanChopin
This probably just adds to the "marketing speak" we've been talking about, but I received the link to these two articles from The Piano Guys when I sent them question regarding the action
Article 1
Article 2
Article 2 has some more technical details regarding the sound system and sampling.

Whose "marketing speak" are you talking about? Is it Raekon's? If that's true, then it's a shame
What I mean by "marketing speak" is that it's just repeating the promotional language of Yamaha instead of the reviews that we've seen from others in this thread.
Posted By: YuriPiano Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/09/20 11:34 PM
Originally Posted by GreatShowmanChopin
What I mean by "marketing speak" is that it's just repeating the promotional language of Yamaha instead of the reviews that we've seen from others in this thread.

Ah! I see
Posted By: YuriPiano Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/10/20 08:48 AM
Hello all,

I want to ask, are the yamaha clp 775 and 785 released later than clp 735 and 745? Or is it not available in some countries? I've checked online stores in my country (Indonesia) and it seems like there are little to no online stores that sell the 645 675 and 685 but I often encounter 625s... I know a big online store that pre-orders 735 and 745 tho. Does this mean that the whole 600 series is no longer being sold and being replaced with the whole 700 series, thus making the 775 and 785 guaranteed to be on the shelf? Or does that mean the -75 and -85 Clavinovas are indeed not available in some countries? In the Indonesian site of Yamaha the 775 and 785 are listed, though. What do you guys think?

Best regards,
Yuri
Posted By: Raekon Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/10/20 08:55 AM
Originally Posted by YuriPiano
Hello all,

I want to ask, are the yamaha clp 775 and 785 released later than clp 735 and 745? Or is it not available in some countries? I've checked online stores in my country (Indonesia) and it seems like there are little to no online stores that sell the 645 675 and 685 but I often encounter 625s... I know a big online store that pre-orders 735 and 745 tho. Does this mean that the whole 600 series is no longer being sold and being replaced with the whole 700 series, thus making the 775 and 785 guaranteed to be on the shelf? Or does that mean the -75 and -85 Clavinovas are indeed not available in some countries? In the Indonesian site of Yamaha the 775 and 785 are listed, though. What do you guys think?

Best regards,
Yuri
Well it’s probably normal for stores to have more stock of the lower end models as they are probably sold more often. I can still find some old CLP600s models in my country too, but they are definitely gonna get replaced by new CLP700s shippings once the local stock is sold out. The CLP-775 is already available here in europe, while the CLP-785 still isn’t listed anywhere.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/10/20 02:41 PM
Slightly off topic, but I just noticed a CLP-585 @ PianoMart (asking price $2,700).

If in good condition, this would be a good buy at a lower -negotiated- price for anyone liking the NWH action. This model has the CFX with VRM, key-off samples, etc....It also has a good three-way speaker system and looks similar in design to current models (medium-tall upright cabinet). It doesn’t have an audio card but the audio-in can do for running a VST.
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/10/20 03:00 PM
The 585 does still hold up very well. NWX gets lots of love and it comes with counterweights. Speakers are awesome too. The only issue people seem to have with it is the Bösendorfer sample. Although, there is also a lack of binaural samples but who cares if you use VSTs smile
Posted By: PlayerkaN Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/10/20 03:59 PM
Originally Posted by Beowulf
The 585 does still hold up very well. NWX gets lots of love and it comes with counterweights. Speakers are awesome too. The only issue people seem to have with it is the Bösendorfer sample. Although, there is also a lack of binaural samples but who cares if you use VSTs smile
P515 has counterweights?
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/10/20 04:05 PM
Yes!
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/10/20 04:06 PM
I don't believe so...
On Clavinovas, only X85 and X95GP
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/10/20 04:19 PM
I double checked the specs/features for the CLP-585; it has counterweights. They even have a picture showing the weights.


From the Yamaha site for the CLP-585:

“Key counterweights
Counterweights are embedded in the keys of a grand piano to balance the weight of the hammers and offer more precise control when playing delicately at low volumes. The Clavinova features carefully-adjusted counterweights for improved playability when playing pianissimo and better key return in rapid passages. The keyboard of the Clavinova has been fine-tuned to offer optimal balance, emphasizing its superb playability and grand piano response”.
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/10/20 04:30 PM
Yes, 585 has counterweights.
P515, no...

I thought that you answered PlayerKan

They both share NWX, this maybe leads to this confusion
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/10/20 04:46 PM
My bad, Otavio, the question was referring specifically to the P-515.
I somehow missed that part and mistakenly thought it was referring to the CLP-585, and answered ‘yes’.

You are correct, the P-515 does not have counterweights; the CLP-585 does.
Posted By: PlayerkaN Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/10/20 04:56 PM
Originally Posted by Otavio
Yes, 585 has counterweights.
P515, no...

I thought that you answered PlayerKan

They both share NWX, this maybe leads to this confusion
OK thank you for answering
Posted By: kailord Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/10/20 05:31 PM
i re-tested 745, 775 & 785 against yamaha grands C2 & one other, and upright U1 PE.
775 & 785 are indeed slightly heavier keys than the acoustics, slight, but palpable.
745 gap with acoustic is more obvious - it's lighter.

anyone knows if digital piano keys soften with time? i'm hoping so.
Posted By: Raekon Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/10/20 05:41 PM
Originally Posted by kailord
i re-tested 745, 775 & 785 against yamaha grands C2 & one other, and upright U1 PE.
775 & 785 are indeed slightly heavier keys than the acoustics, slight, but palpable.
745 gap with acoustic is more obvious - it's lighter.

anyone knows if digital piano keys soften with time? i'm hoping so.
Damn, interesting. Looks like the 745 is the perfect instrument I’m looking for then. At 2350€ I don’t think I could ask for more, checks all the boxes
Posted By: noakim Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/10/20 05:42 PM
Hello~ New here. Been learning the piano for about a year and half now. Currently using a Yamaha P-255. Very keen to upgrade to a CLP model. I find P-255 action's too heavy (I measured the middle C key using my local coins, the P-255 action is about 85-90 grams?) and as someone mentioned in one of the posts, I've been banging my teacher's Yamaha upright every lesson.

I'm considering between the 745 and 775 and the posts here have been really useful! Thank you everyone for your posts. For me it comes down to the difference between the GrandTouch and GrandTouch-S. I was able to briefly touch (not really play) both models at the local Yamaha store and yes based on my experience using the P-255 for daily practice both the GrandTouch and -S actions feel consderably lighter with the GrandTouch-S even lighter, which made me a tad worried if it is too light. Though I don't mind if it's light as long as it is "realistic" when compared to a baby grand (which is what Yamaha said the GrandTouch-S action is based on). What are your opinions on digital piano actions being "too heavy" or "too light" for a beginner student?

I'm waiting on more reviews before purchasing. Hopefully someone would measure the weight on the GrandTouch-S.

Well while waiting I'll probably drop by the local Yamaha store again to play the piano properly.
Posted By: PlsDontShootMe Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/10/20 09:32 PM
Originally Posted by Beowulf
The 585 does still hold up very well. NWX gets lots of love and it comes with counterweights. Speakers are awesome too. The only issue people seem to have with it is the Bösendorfer sample. Although, there is also a lack of binaural samples but who cares if you use VSTs smile

I agree that the counter-weighted version of the NWX keyboard is excellent—really my favorite Yamaha Clavinova keyboard. It’s not too heavy, not too light. I was just browsing a piano store a couple days ago while away on a business trip, and while they didn’t have any of the new CLPs, they did have a CLP-645 with the non-counterweighted NWX keyboard right next to a CVP-709 with the counterweighted NWX keyboard. I played them both silently, just to try to feel the difference.

I was able to tell a significant difference—the counterweighted keys indeed felt more balanced, they took a little less initial force, and seemed to respond a little quicker. Also, the black key surfaces were different; the 645 had a fairly rough but shiny artificial fake wood grain surface, while the 709 black keys were more of a smooth matt finish. Some may prefer the non-counterweighted keytops, but I prefer the smoother counterweighted ones.
Posted By: PlsDontShootMe Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/10/20 09:36 PM
Originally Posted by kailord
i re-tested 745, 775 & 785 against yamaha grands C2 & one other, and upright U1 PE.
775 & 785 are indeed slightly heavier keys than the acoustics, slight, but palpable.
745 gap with acoustic is more obvious - it's lighter.

anyone knows if digital piano keys soften with time? i'm hoping so.
Okay, here’s the big question—how do the 775 and 785 GrandTouch keyboards compare to the previous generation (685, 695) GrandTouch keyboards? Are they different, lighter, or identical?
I think all we have is just some anecdotal remarks about the touch from those in this thread and Tony from Bonners. It appears that the 775 is lighter than the 675. I know Tony did an actual gram weight measurement test in the past and maybe he'll do it again for this generation of Clavinova's, but I'm not sure that type of detail of "weight" is available at the moment. Sorry I can't give you a more concrete answer as I'm really interested in the same and so very close to going ahead and pre-ordering the 785.
Posted By: Tozen Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/11/20 03:45 AM
Originally Posted by kailord
i re-tested 745, 775 & 785 against yamaha grands C2 & one other, and upright U1 PE.
775 & 785 are indeed slightly heavier keys than the acoustics, slight, but palpable.
745 gap with acoustic is more obvious - it's lighter.

anyone knows if digital piano keys soften with time? i'm hoping so.

In your opinion, is the 745 *too* light? I know the ideal is to get it as close to real as possible, but for the price point, I'm really hoping it is good enough.
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/11/20 03:59 AM
To those who are unable to try the 745, you can use the P-125 as a gauge of the weight. It's pretty similar.
Posted By: kailord Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/11/20 07:07 AM
Sorry I can't compare with 675 685, never had the opportunity to touch. and also no access to 600s except for my impression from a limited assessment.

if i guess that "100%" is grand piano touch, i'd say 775 785 weight is about 105-110%. 745 weight is about 85-90%. 735 i remember is a bit lighter, so maybe i'll guess 80-85%. i'm now hoping to re-evaluate CA79 whether it's closer to 100% than 775 785.

i wonder if experienced pianists can comment on whether erring on higher or lower side is better for a exam-oriented trainee, if the margin of error is about 10%. too heavy 110%, afraid of hand tiredness & discrepancy with acoustic used in exams. too light 90%, afraid of insufficient finger strength when nearing exams & renting exam-acoustics to catch up in training.
Posted By: PlayerkaN Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/11/20 08:17 AM
I'm waiting for reviews between 735 and p515, I can't test them here yet
Posted By: PlayerkaN Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/11/20 08:22 AM
Originally Posted by kailord
Sorry I can't compare with 675 685, never had the opportunity to touch. and also no access to 600s except for my impression from a limited assessment.

if i guess that "100%" is grand piano touch, i'd say 775 785 weight is about 105-110%. 745 weight is about 85-90%. 735 i remember is a bit lighter, so maybe i'll guess 80-85%. i'm now hoping to re-evaluate CA79 whether it's closer to 100% than 775 785.

i wonder if experienced pianists can comment on whether erring on higher or lower side is better for a exam-oriented trainee, if the margin of error is about 10%. too heavy 110%, afraid of hand tiredness & discrepancy with acoustic used in exams. too light 90%, afraid of insufficient finger strength when nearing exams & renting exam-acoustics to catch up in training.

but this is subjective, not all acoustics have the same action
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/11/20 08:23 AM
There are already plenty of reviews for P515 around.
Posted By: PlayerkaN Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/11/20 09:46 AM
Originally Posted by Beowulf
There are already plenty of reviews for P515 around.
I know it, i like p515 but I want a review between p515 and 735.
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/11/20 10:53 AM
Grandtouch s/wood = Ghs ?!
This a good thing?! Or a bad thing?! 😁 😁 😁
Posted By: PlayerkaN Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/11/20 11:00 AM
Originally Posted by Otavio
Grandtouch s/wood = Ghs ?!
This a good thing?! Or a bad thing?! 😁 😁 😁
I think this will not be exactly the same, used to the heavy action of yamaha now this seems very light 😋
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/11/20 11:20 AM
I interrupt this post for an important announcement:

The CLP-585 has been reduced to $2,500. The owner says the sensors were all replaced. This is good because sensors are usually the first to give some trouble; not just by wearing quicker (for obvious reasons), but even if dirt/dust gets in there.

Now, I assume this work was done by a competent tech; and still, the action has to be thoroughly inspected for noises, wobbling, spacing, etc...

If everything checks out fine, make ‘him’ an offer he can’t refuse!

This piano is still very good: CFX, VRM, NWX, good sound system, and similar cabinet to Yamaha’s new offerings.

If I weren’t so far, I’d definitely give it a look.
Posted By: paxel Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/11/20 11:23 AM
In the past years several people complained that the Yamahas were too heavy, but in my experience when I compared them to several acoustic pianos at the shop, they were the only brand which gave me the same "weight experience" of acoustic pianos. All the others felt lighter. Is this over?
It's very rare to find in shops (or in video reviews) a side by side of digital piano - acoustic piano.
Posted By: kailord Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/11/20 01:46 PM
Originally Posted by PlayerkaN
Originally Posted by kailord
Sorry I can't compare with 675 685, never had the opportunity to touch. and also no access to 600s except for my impression from a limited assessment.

if i guess that "100%" is grand piano touch, i'd say 775 785 weight is about 105-110%. 745 weight is about 85-90%. 735 i remember is a bit lighter, so maybe i'll guess 80-85%. i'm now hoping to re-evaluate CA79 whether it's closer to 100% than 775 785.

i wonder if experienced pianists can comment on whether erring on higher or lower side is better for a exam-oriented trainee, if the margin of error is about 10%. too heavy 110%, afraid of hand tiredness & discrepancy with acoustic used in exams. too light 90%, afraid of insufficient finger strength when nearing exams & renting exam-acoustics to catch up in training.

but this is subjective, not all acoustics have the same action

Indeed. I compared them with yamaha acoustics, and most yamaha acoustics are similar enough in weight, except for the lowest range of uprights.

Wonder if anyone knows the differences in acoustic weights between brands, and where yamaha acoustics sit amongst them ?

Tried out NU1X today to compare. Weight/action is a better match than CLPs to the acoustics. But pricier, and u get an upright action with no escapement.

And touched the Yamaha silent pianos a bit too. Oddly there was a tone difference between the silent and the acoustic cousin of same model - which doesn't make sense since they're the same, so maybe the differences I heard were due to room placement eg near walls. Cos the plain acoustics sounded better than the silent cousin. Anyone knows if they are meant to be identical-sounding ? Salesperson also mentioned key travel on silents is a little less due to the mechanism, though it doesn't match what is described by yamaha, cos silents work by pedals shifting the mechanism, not by actual key action differences. So maybe the sales person misunderstood ...

My impression at this stage is, some too light, some too heavy, I should look to other brands. Pity cos was really gunning to buy.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/11/20 01:52 PM
I was under the impression that upright acoustic actions also use ‘escapement’?
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/11/20 03:06 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
I was under the impression that upright acoustic actions also use ‘escapement’?
Yes, without an escapement, when we play a key the hammer would get sticked against the strings.

We would have a clavichord, not a piano.

What has the grand piano is what is named “double escapement”. The expression is misleading : it should be name an escapement with a repetition lever (which makes the action faster).
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/11/20 03:11 PM
Yes, that’s what I thought, but a certain someone ‘round here indicated otherwise. smile
Posted By: petebfrance Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/11/20 03:29 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
Yes, that’s what I thought, but a certain someone ‘round here indicated otherwise. smile
LOL - I know I did once. Just a 'mental slip', honest blush
Posted By: kailord Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/11/20 05:13 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
Yes, that’s what I thought, but a certain someone ‘round here indicated otherwise. smile
apologies, i don't know enough about the actions. stand corrected, can't edit my post.
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/11/20 05:23 PM
Originally Posted by kailord
And touched the Yamaha silent pianos a bit too. Odd ly there was a tone difference between the silent and the acoustic cousin of same model - which doesn't make sense since they're the same, so maybe the differences I heard were due to room placement eg near walls. Cos the plain acoustics sounded better than the silent cousin. Anyone knows if they are meant to be identical-sounding ? Salesperson also mentioned key travel on silents is a little less due to the mechanism, though it doesn't match what is described by yamaha, cos silents work by pedals shifting the mechanism, not by actual key action differences. So maybe the sales person misunderstood ...

On an acoustic piano, we try to tune the escapement point as close to the string as possible. But with a Silent system, we have to tune the escapement point farther or else, when the stop bar is engaged, the action will not work well (hammer sticked against the stop bar)Then, most Silent systems need the piano to be regulated a little worse. On some grand actions, we can have a system which makes the installation possible without altering the escapement. It is named QuickEscape on Yamaha, but AdSilent propose it as an option. On uprights, I know no comparable system.

We can also have two pianos of the same model in different condition, voiced differently, etc.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/11/20 06:19 PM
Originally Posted by kailord
Originally Posted by Pete14
Yes, that’s what I thought, but a certain someone ‘round here indicated otherwise. smile
apologies, i don't know enough about the actions. stand corrected, can't edit my post.

It’s too little too late; I have already given thee one Bannon! laugh
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/11/20 06:32 PM
Clp 745 SHOWCASE
Posted By: Tozen Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/11/20 06:54 PM
Originally Posted by Otavio

It's pretty amazing that YouTube can auto-translate the captions from German into English! Having said that, I'm not sure what to make of that review. The piano sound was great, but he also had those gigantic speakers set up in the back, so it's hard to know how authentic it was. There also wasn't much info on the action.
Well folks, I'll let you know how the 785 performs. I just placed my pre-order and I'm uncertain when it will arrive. I live in the USA and had the opportunity to speak with folks from The Piano Guys Store that actually had experience playing the 785 and I was told the action was "improved" from the 685. "improved" meaning it was lighter on initial ACTION as compared to the 685. Again, this is referenced in the article I linked previously and will link again here -> Article <- Again, it was explained to me how the keybed is improved and that criticism of the 685 was truly taken to heart and that it is improved for the 785. I'm struggling with all the different vernacular we're using here at this point. But needless to say, the conversation was enough to convince me to put down the money to buy this instrument. I will try to answer questions if you have any, otherwise I suggest maybe you try to talk to them? Click here to to reach The Piano Guys Store.

While I'm certain many of you think I'm probably a bit (or a lot lol) crazy for buying before trying, I think this digital piano will be perfect for me. Truth be told, I think I'm a little crazy for buying without trying. I have to give it to The Piano Guys Store for reaching out and actually talking to me about the piano. I attempted to reach out to other online retailers and even local retailers and never heard back. It was genuinely frustrating and I tried my best. The Piano Guys Store actually has tried the 785 and was able to give me feedback to my specific questions about how it compared to the 685 and an upright acoustic piano, how it sounds, and what the new binaural sampling was like for the CFX and Bösendorfer. It pushed me over the edge to purchase and maybe it could be a place for you to ask questions and get answers.

When I get this piano I will be sure to either reply here (as I will continue to check this thread for sure) or create a new thread where I will try my best to answer questions for you all.
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/12/20 05:10 AM
I forgot to mention about the keybed in my earlier post. When I tested the 775 it definitely felt softer than its predecessor and that's an improvement. Yamaha has always had rock solid hard keybeds and this is an area where Kawai has always had an edge over them.
Posted By: kailord Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/12/20 05:47 AM
Originally Posted by kailord
Sorry I can't compare with 675 685, never had the opportunity to touch. and also no access to 600s except for my impression from a limited assessment.

if i guess that "100%" is grand piano touch, i'd say 775 785 weight is about 105-110%. 745 weight is about 85-90%. 735 i remember is a bit lighter, so maybe i'll guess 80-85%. i'm now hoping to re-evaluate CA79 whether it's closer to 100% than 775 785.

i wonder if experienced pianists can comment on whether erring on higher or lower side is better for a exam-oriented trainee, if the margin of error is about 10%. too heavy 110%, afraid of hand tiredness & discrepancy with acoustic used in exams. too light 90%, afraid of insufficient finger strength when nearing exams & renting exam-acoustics to catch up in training.

Rechecked CA79 - just my estimate again but they got it rather close to kawai upright weight (not sure which model but it was also their silent model), about 92-95% of upright weight. And even closer to their grand (also not sure which model), I'm guessing 96-97% grand weight.

Key bed felt minimally softer than kawai acoustics but close enough. Initial action also really close.

I checked any hiss. Seems none, maybe as mentioned it may be a regional power issue.

Anyone knows other negatives of CA79 like key durability problems etc ? I know this is wrong thread, I'll trawl more other threads but I didn't find any except hiss. I think I'm won over by CA79 ... Final tie up about the speakers, it's got the right amount of treble and bass. CA99 is really excessive even beyond the reply by another forummer about upright cabinet. I did comparison and CA99 has like at least double the bass resonance of both grands and uprights, which is like no-no. U feel the frame buzzing obviously on lower notes and even the sound balance (volume) of higher versus lower notes veers towards this imbalance. An existing user would need to tune down equalizer (not sure if such feature exists. Clp 700s have an equalizer which is nice).
Posted By: ZspH4 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/12/20 06:36 AM
Why is there no news regarding the CLP-725 ? I don’t know if this model even exist !
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/12/20 06:59 AM
No 725? Maybe Yamaha concluded that there's little market for it.
The low-end Clav is barely distinguishable from their high-end Arius.
But the latter is less expensive. So maybe there is no 725?

Here's what their web site lists:
CLP-695GP . . CLP-795GP
CLP-665GP . . CLP-765GP
CLP-685 . . . CLP-785
CLP-675 . . .
CLP-645 . . . CLP-745
CLP-635 . . . CLP-735
CLP-625 . . .


No 725. And no 775 either.
Originally Posted by ZspH4
Why is there no news regarding the CLP-725 ?

It has not been released.

But there was a leek.

[Linked Image]

Here, actually: http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...lavinova-clp-700-series.html#Post2998124

Originally Posted by ZspH4
I don’t know if this model even exist !

Not yet, officially.
The CLP-725 still appears on some sites:

https://nebout-hamm.com/blog/yamaha-serie-clp-700-nouveaux-clavinova/

Quote
Le CLP-725 A découvrir début 2021.

https://www.musicbros.net/yamaha-clavinova-clp725-dark-rosewood.html

Quote
Disponibile dal 2021, il nuovissimo modello Yamaha Clavinova CLP 725 è già il più atteso della nuova serie di Clavinova Yamaha CLP.

So, next year.
Posted By: petebfrance Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/12/20 10:46 AM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
No 725? Maybe Yamaha concluded that there's little market for it.
The low-end Clav is barely distinguishable from their high-end Arius.
But the latter is less expensive. So maybe there is no 725?

Here's what their web site lists:
CLP-695GP . . CLP-795GP
CLP-665GP . . CLP-765GP
CLP-685 . . . CLP-785
CLP-675 . . .
CLP-645 . . . CLP-745
CLP-635 . . . CLP-735
CLP-625 . . .


No 725. And no 775 either.

The CLP-775 is available here in Europe but appears not to be available in the USA. Most odd...
CLP-725, see above posts.
Posted By: Burkey Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/12/20 02:03 PM
So I've been researching and playing Kawai, Roland, Casio, and Yamaha digital pianos for the past 18 months with the goal of finding the digital piano best-suited to both my 8 year-old daughter (2nd year learner) and me.

This year we've also owned 4 pianos: Roland FP-80, C.Bechstein Academy 124, Ritmüller 110R2, and Yamaha P-125. So the whole family has seen and tried out not only a lot of different brands and models - but also different pianos of the same model.

In the end our top 5 choices (also constrained by a USD $7,300 maximum budget) came down to:

1. Roland LX706
2. Casio GP-310
3. Yamaha CLP-745
4. Yamaha CLP-775
5. Kawai CA79

Ultimately the Kawai CA79 has the best feeling action of that bunch. However, unfortunately the Kawai dealer here in Singapore is the only Kawai dealer and so charges a monopoly-enabled premium of 30% extra. I will never ever finance such market segmentation extortion rackets. Kawai: this cost you a sale - and many more if people read this.

So we have gone with the second-best option on the list, the Yamaha CLP-745.

Every CLP-745 key is 20 grams lighter than those on the CLP-775, which much better suits my daughter.

The key weighting is much the same between the CLP-745 (62 grams at A0 down to 45 grams at C8), the Casio GP-310 (60 grams at A0 down to 42 grams at C8), and the Roland LX706. Compared with the Kawai CA79/CA99 weighting of 55g at A0 down to 45g at C8.

The other selling point of the CLP-745 after the action was the price. Whereas the Kawai was 30% overpriced, the CLP-745 was actually less expensive here than in other markets (USD $2,100 + tax).

I thoroughly recommend playing both the Yamaha CLP-745 and the Kawai CA79 as benchmarks against which to compare all other digital pianos.
Posted By: Burkey Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/12/20 02:28 PM
P.S. minor issues worth noting with the CLP-745 (and CLP-775):
1. Whilst the ivory keys are rock solid, the ebony keys have a fair amount of lateral side-to-side wobble.
2. The Mozart fortepiano is not tuned correctly (it's tuned to A440 instead of about A421 - out by almost 1 semitone). Likewise the Chopin fortepiano tuning may also be sightly out. I believe you can adjust this tuning manually.
Posted By: PlayerkaN Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/12/20 02:48 PM
Originally Posted by Burkie
P.S. minor issues worth noting with the CLP-745 (and CLP-775):
1. Whilst the ivory keys are rock solid, the ebony keys have a fair amount of lateral side-to-side wobble.
2. The Mozart fortepiano is not tuned correctly (it's tuned to A440 instead of about A421 - out by almost 1 semitone). Likewise the Chopin fortepiano tuning may also be sightly out. I believe you can adjust this tuning manually.
did you play the piano clp 735?
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/12/20 02:56 PM
It seems like Yamaha is ‘holding out’ a bit on the CLP-785. I mean, there aren’t any dealer reviews (at least not in depth) or comparisons to the other models.
Tony from Bonners is very fond of comparing the X75 to the X85, so hopefully we’ll see something from him, or perhaps from Stu, soon.

I’m also hoping they do the down weight comparison between the 685 and the 785; as it stands it’s all anecdotal. Some say there’s no difference; others say there is.
This could be easily settled by using actual weights or even using an iPhone as a ‘weight’ (something Stu did when comparing ES-8 with the P-515). smile
Posted By: kailord Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/12/20 02:57 PM
Originally Posted by Burkie
The key weighting is much the same between the CLP-745 (62 grams at A0 down to 45 grams at C8), the Casio GP-310 (60 grams at A0 down to 42 grams at C8), and the Roland LX706. Compared with the Kawai CA79/CA99 weighting of 55g at A0 down to 45g at C8.

hi fellow singaporean dad, only difference is my kid's almost 6.
interesting that your measurements puts 745 a little heavier than CA79. i only gauged with fingers. wonder how much it's got to do with the weight required for initial movement, then the follow through? i guessed 745 to be lighter than CA79 which is marginally lighter than acoustics. i was gunning for 785 but realised it's heavy weight - which means if 745 weighs 62-45g, 785 must be almost 70 !

did u use coins? thought of doing so but don't know the weight of coins yet.
any negatives u know about CA79 besides the hiss reports?
Posted By: Burkey Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/12/20 03:01 PM
Originally Posted by PlayerkaN
Originally Posted by Burkie
P.S. minor issues worth noting with the CLP-745 (and CLP-775):
1. Whilst the ivory keys are rock solid, the ebony keys have a fair amount of lateral side-to-side wobble.
2. The Mozart fortepiano is not tuned correctly (it's tuned to A440 instead of about A421 - out by almost 1 semitone). Likewise the Chopin fortepiano tuning may also be sightly out. I believe you can adjust this tuning manually.
did you play the piano clp 735?
I'm sure they will feel much the same - the main differences are:
1. The keys (745 uses solid wood, the 735 uses plastic).
2. The Bluetooth Audio and MIDI (the 745 has them, the 735 doesn't).
3. The speakers (the 745 has greater ranges of breadth and volume) - though through headphones they should sound identical.
Posted By: Burkey Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/12/20 03:05 PM
Originally Posted by kailord
hi fellow singaporean dad, only difference is my kid's almost 6.
interesting that your measurements puts 745 a little heavier than CA79. i only gauged with fingers. wonder how much it's got to do with the weight required for initial movement, then the follow through? i guessed 745 to be lighter than CA79 which is marginally lighter than acoustics. i was gunning for 785 but realised it's heavy weight - which means if 745 weighs 62-45g, 785 must be almost 70 !

did u use coins? thought of doing so but don't know the weight of coins yet.
any negatives u know about CA79 besides the hiss reports?
I used professional brass piano-regulation key weights for the first 70 grams, then 20 cent pieces for additional weight.

I measured the CLP-785 in addition to the 775 and 745.

It's worth commending Yamaha on reducing the weight down from that of the 685, however the 785 is still too heavy for children. It's ok for adults (the counterweights make it slightly lighter than the 775), but I cannot recommend it for children under 10.

As for the CA79 - the only negative is that the CA99 cabinet looks far more beautiful smile. I'll probably end up buying a second-hand CA99 for the next upgrade!
Posted By: kailord Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/12/20 03:25 PM
Originally Posted by Burkie
I measured the CLP-785 in addition to the 775 and 745.

As for the CA79 - the only negative is that the CA99 cabinet looks far more beautiful smile. I'll probably end up buying a second-hand CA99 for the next upgrade!

do u have a benchmark comparison with some acoustic grands/uprights?
i'm surprised ur measurements show 745 is slightly heavier than CA79, i guessed it was the reverse.
and how much heavier is the 785 from 745?

do watch out for the CA99 excessive bass. it's rather obvious when u feel the cabinet vibrate.
Posted By: PlayerkaN Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/12/20 03:39 PM
Originally Posted by Burkie
Originally Posted by PlayerkaN
Originally Posted by Burkie
P.S. minor issues worth noting with the CLP-745 (and CLP-775):
1. Whilst the ivory keys are rock solid, the ebony keys have a fair amount of lateral side-to-side wobble.
2. The Mozart fortepiano is not tuned correctly (it's tuned to A440 instead of about A421 - out by almost 1 semitone). Likewise the Chopin fortepiano tuning may also be sightly out. I believe you can adjust this tuning manually.
did you play the piano clp 735?
I'm sure they will feel much the same - the main differences are:
1. The keys (745 uses solid wood, the 735 uses plastic).
2. The Bluetooth Audio and MIDI (the 745 has them, the 735 doesn't).
3. The speakers (the 745 has greater ranges of breadth and volume) - though through headphones they should sound identical.


I gonna buy 735 price quality is good, i feel p515 very heavy regarding a yamaha acoustic piano
Posted By: Burkey Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/12/20 04:04 PM
Originally Posted by kailord
do u have a benchmark comparison with some acoustic grands/uprights?
i'm surprised ur measurements show 745 is slightly heavier than CA79, i guessed it was the reverse.
and how much heavier is the 785 from 745?

do watch out for the CA99 excessive bass. it's rather obvious when u feel the cabinet vibrate.
My C.Bechstein Academy 124 upright was 54 grams at A0 down to 58 grams at C8. Note that top grand pianos are lighter than uprights and, interestingly, more evenly weighted.

E.g. 49g/50g at A0 down to 45g/46g at C8. I believe both Steinway and Fazioli have that weighting. Hence why I point out the Kawai CA79 as being the closest to perfect for a digital.

Finally please note that acoustics are measured with the dampers off (pedal down) - i.e. the keys do feel heavier without the pedal engaged.
Posted By: kailord Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/12/20 04:21 PM
Originally Posted by Burkie
Note that top grand pianos are lighter than uprights and, interestingly, more evenly weighted.

E.g. 49g/50g at A0 down to 45g/46g at C8. I believe both Steinway and Fazioli have that weighting. Hence why I point out the Kawai CA79 as being the closest to perfect for a digital.

Finally please note that acoustics are measured with the dampers off (pedal down) - i.e. the keys do feel heavier without the pedal engaged.

i still don't get the comparison with dampers off - shouldn't we compare just the actual key weight when not pedaling? it's still relevant info, no?

and the interesting point here then is - acoustics change weight with pedaling, whereas DPs don't. so this is one more difference DPs haven't managed to bridge?

your objective and mine seems to be the same - getting children trained. and i was pretty impressed that DPs have matched acoustics sufficiently such that models like 745-785 & CA79 potentially can take someone up to grade 8. but for the sake of exams, which aren't conducted with high-end grands, we'd need to actually try to match the touch of "exam pianos" then. would u still say 745 / CA79 key weight is suitable, or somewhere in between this and 785 weight?
Posted By: Burkey Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/12/20 04:24 PM
Originally Posted by kailord
Originally Posted by Burkie
Note that top grand pianos are lighter than uprights and, interestingly, more evenly weighted.

E.g. 49g/50g at A0 down to 45g/46g at C8. I believe both Steinway and Fazioli have that weighting. Hence why I point out the Kawai CA79 as being the closest to perfect for a digital.

Finally please note that acoustics are measured with the dampers off (pedal down) - i.e. the keys do feel heavier without the pedal engaged.

i still don't get the comparison with dampers off - shouldn't we compare just the actual key weight when not pedaling? it's still relevant info, no?

and the interesting point here then is - acoustics change weight with pedaling, whereas DPs don't. so this is one more difference DPs haven't managed to bridge?

your objective and mine seems to be the same - getting children trained. and i was pretty impressed that DPs have matched acoustics sufficiently such that models like 745-785 & CA79 potentially can take someone up to grade 8. but for the sake of exams, which aren't conducted with high-end grands, we'd need to actually try to match the touch of "exam pianos" then. would u still say 745 / CA79 key weight is suitable, or somewhere in between this and 785 weight?
Firstly, I would rather say the goal must be to have children 'enchanted' - rather than 'trained'!
Exams actually inhibit learning. Plenty of evidence for that.
I believe Lang Lang's teacher mentioned that he told Lang Lang to minimize performances so that he could spend more time learning new techniques in preference to perfecting limited repertoire. Exams limit your repertoire and knowledge. I was forced to do my classical exams until 8th grade - I only started actually loving the piano fully after that stress ended. I would never abuse a child by forcing them to do exam exams.

As for key weight being different with and without damper - that is a flaw inherent to acoustics. Fixed in digitals.
Posted By: tudor33sud Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/12/20 04:30 PM
Originally Posted by Burkie
Originally Posted by kailord
do u have a benchmark comparison with some acoustic grands/uprights?
i'm surprised ur measurements show 745 is slightly heavier than CA79, i guessed it was the reverse.
and how much heavier is the 785 from 745?

do watch out for the CA99 excessive bass. it's rather obvious when u feel the cabinet vibrate.
My C.Bechstein Academy 124 upright was 54 grams at A0 down to 58 grams at C8. Note that top grand pianos are lighter than uprights and, interestingly, more evenly weighted.

E.g. 49g/50g at A0 down to 45g/46g at C8. I believe both Steinway and Fazioli have that weighting. Hence why I point out the Kawai CA79 as being the closest to perfect for a digital.

Finally please note that acoustics are measured with the dampers off (pedal down) - i.e. the keys do feel heavier without the pedal engaged.

Hi Burkie,

Please sorry for the offtopic but I am really curious, is there any reason why you would chose a digital over the C bechstein 124 academy? I have my eyes on thet instrument, and I wonder if you get the right sound, or it s a letoff and one could prefer the full sound of a digital?

Thanks!!
Posted By: Burkey Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/12/20 04:40 PM
Originally Posted by tudor33sud
Hi Burkie,

Please sorry for the offtopic but I am really curious, is there any reason why you would chose a digital over the C bechstein 124 academy? I have my eyes on thet instrument, and I wonder if you get the right sound, or it s a letoff and one could prefer the full sound of a digital?

Thanks!!
The key regulation (weight gradation) on that A124 hand-made in Germany instrument was amazing. That is one department that all digitals below the N1X are inferior to acoustics.

The main reason I had to sell it was my wife has sensitive ears (like Mozart did) and can't handle loud noise. The acoustic pianos of today are very loud compared with the fortepianos of yester year.

So unless/until we buy two separate houses, it's digital from here on in for me.
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/12/20 04:51 PM
Tried 745, loved the action.
In the beginning I was felling too light but after playing a bit, I really liked.

Ahh, another interesting experiment...
Layering different pianos with fortepianos(with lower volume)...
It improved a bit the realism, gave some upright feel.

Unfortunately I will not be able to try the 785 before buy....

Some say that sound experience it's totally different.
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/12/20 05:44 PM
Originally Posted by Burkie
In the end our top 5 choices (also constrained by a USD $7,300 maximum budget) came down to:

1. Roland LX706
2. Casio GP-310
3. Yamaha CLP-745
4. Yamaha CLP-775
5. Kawai CA79
Given that budget you can even get the NV5 unless you are looking for a grand-like action.
Posted By: PlayerkaN Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/12/20 06:03 PM
Everything tells me that I think that yamaha with the 735/45 has done a good deed
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/12/20 07:31 PM
Anyone tested vsts with Clp 700 internal speakers?!

Maybe the new speaker positioning could improve external audio playback too.
Posted By: Burkey Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/13/20 12:25 AM
Originally Posted by Beowulf
Originally Posted by Burkie
In the end our top 5 choices (also constrained by a USD $7,300 maximum budget) came down to:

1. Roland LX706
2. Casio GP-310
3. Yamaha CLP-745
4. Yamaha CLP-775
5. Kawai CA79
Given that budget you can even get the NV5 unless you are looking for a grand-like action.
I believe the quote I received for the NV5 actually exceeded by budget (SGD $10,000 - USD $7,300).

I.e. here the Yamaha N1X is cheaper than the NV5 lol thanks to cartel Robert Piano!
Posted By: kailord Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/13/20 12:37 AM
Originally Posted by Burkie
In the end our top 5 choices (also constrained by a USD $7,300 maximum budget) came down to:

1. Roland LX706
2. Casio GP-310
3. Yamaha CLP-745
4. Yamaha CLP-775
5. Kawai CA79

Forgot to ask, did u assess KDP-110?

My impression was it was slightly lighter than CA78 but they didn't have a CA79 side by side for me to compare. And comments in forum are CA79 is slightly lighter than CA78 so 78 might be similar to 110.

But I was thinking one way to 'enchant' my trainees is by investing more in a more realistic, grander sound, with also more child-engaging features such as different voicings. I remember as a kid being more enchanted with my yamaha electone than a single-voiced budget upright. That poor upright lasted me till grade 7, one less than yourself, and similarly I stopped cos I hated 'it' in general. Now I want to retrain with my kids, and am also enchanted myself by these modern tools.

So going by that, KDP-110 would be less interesting due to unimpressive bass output (smaller speakers), slightly poorer treble output, and fewer enchanting sounds. The other extreme is blowing budget, but my upper limit is also same as yours.
Posted By: TrollToddington Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/13/20 07:35 AM
Originally Posted by Burkie
[quote=kailord]. It's ok for adults (the counterweights make it slightly lighter than the 775), but I cannot recommend it for children under 10.
So, what would you do if you had 2 children - one aged 8 and one aged 11? You would have 2 digitals at home?
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/13/20 08:30 AM
Originally Posted by Burkie
I believe the quote I received for the NV5 actually exceeded by budget (SGD $10,000 - USD $7,300).

I.e. here the Yamaha N1X is cheaper than the NV5 lol thanks to cartel Robert Piano!
What was the price they gave you? They quoted me SGD14,500 for the NV10 when I was there to try out the CA99 but I didn't ask for the NV5 at that time.
Posted By: Burkey Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/13/20 10:55 AM
Originally Posted by TrollToddington
Originally Posted by Burkie
[quote=kailord]. It's ok for adults (the counterweights make it slightly lighter than the 775), but I cannot recommend it for children under 10.
So, what would you do if you had 2 children - one aged 8 and one aged 11? You would have 2 digitals at home?
If concert pianists find lighter actions perfectly suitable for nuanced expression then I can't see why anyone would willingly choose to instead opt for a heavy action?

The distinction I was making is that children have weaker muscles in their hands, so that already makes all actions feel heavier. Additionally, adults have a choice as to what action they inflict upon themselves - most children are not the ones making the purchasing decision, so parents must be mindful of these facts.

Therefore I am not suggesting you purchase any more pianos than you need to - that need is entirely independent to the choice of key action.
I have no idea what kind of insight this video can provide, but this is supposedly the CLP 745 key action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74_XByepfr0
Posted By: sam777 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/14/20 04:13 AM
With which keyboard is it better to start learning and training for a beginner adult? CLP 745 or CLP 775. Light or heavy.

DGX 660 owned. Graded Hammer Standard Keyboard. But I don't like the feel of the plastic keys.
Posted By: hector38 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/14/20 07:55 AM
Originally Posted by Burkie
My C.Bechstein Academy 124 upright was 54 grams at A0 down to 58 grams at C8. Note that top grand pianos are lighter than uprights and, interestingly, more evenly weighted.

E.g. 49g/50g at A0 down to 45g/46g at C8. I believe both Steinway and Fazioli have that weighting. Hence why I point out the Kawai CA79 as being the closest to perfect for a digital.

Finally please note that acoustics are measured with the dampers off (pedal down) - i.e. the keys do feel heavier without the pedal engaged.

For the sake of completeness, what would the weights be for C.Bechstein Academy 124 without the pedal engaged?
Posted By: Burkey Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/14/20 11:35 AM
Originally Posted by hector38
Originally Posted by Burkie
My C.Bechstein Academy 124 upright was 54 grams at A0 down to 58 grams at C8. Note that top grand pianos are lighter than uprights and, interestingly, more evenly weighted.

E.g. 49g/50g at A0 down to 45g/46g at C8. I believe both Steinway and Fazioli have that weighting. Hence why I point out the Kawai CA79 as being the closest to perfect for a digital.

Finally please note that acoustics are measured with the dampers off (pedal down) - i.e. the keys do feel heavier without the pedal engaged.

For the sake of completeness, what would the weights be for C.Bechstein Academy 124 without the pedal engaged?
Sorry, that should have read 48 grams at C8.

I use the pedals a lot when playing - I see zero value in having the weight of the keys increase every time I take my foot off the pedal.

Indeed they could now motorize the damper on acoustics so that the damper doesn't add any weight to the keys.
Posted By: Jure Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/14/20 01:45 PM
I just came back from testing the CLP-745. As I wasn't impressed with "new" GrandTouch on the CLP-775 I'm happy to say that the GrandTouch S is one realy nice feeling key action. I curently have the NWX witch I realy adore. I read that some of you here felt that the key action is light. It's amazing how different experience we can have smile To me it felt slightly heavier then NWX, but in a good way. I It just felt like improved version od the GrandTouch and I amazes me that the lower end model has the better action (at least to me) then the more expencive CLP-775.
Posted By: mareg Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/14/20 02:19 PM
Originally Posted by Jure
I just came back from testing the CLP-745. As I wasn't impressed with "new" GrandTouch on the CLP-775 I'm happy to say that the GrandTouch S is one realy nice feeling key action. I curently have the NWX witch I realy adore. I read that some of you here felt that the key action is light. It's amazing how different experience we can have smile To me it felt slightly heavier then NWX, but in a good way. I It just felt like improved version od the GrandTouch and I amazes me that the lower end model has the better action (at least to me) then the more expencive CLP-775.

Man if the action is really that nice, I might actually save a hefty sum of money. There is close to a 1000$ CAD if I include taxes between 745 and 775.

I'm also playing on a NWX (P515) and I was planning on upgrading to the 775. But if the key action is really that heavy on the 775, I'm probably going to have a harder time justifying the investment. Then there is the speaker upgrade. This was the other obvious reason to upgrade. I'm not all that impressed by the speakers on the P515. I know what a decent Bosie patch sounds like and it is NOT the P515. I'm a sucker for good sounding pianos and I wanted to invest in a very good sounding DP. The 745 would have to be amazing with its upgraded speakers to win me.

I guess I'll just have to wait for the stores to get their units so I can make my own idea.
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/14/20 02:25 PM
Originally Posted by Jure
I just came back from testing the CLP-745. As I wasn't impressed with "new" GrandTouch on the CLP-775 I'm happy to say that the GrandTouch S is one realy nice feeling key action. I curently have the NWX witch I realy adore. I read that some of you here felt that the key action is light. It's amazing how different experience we can have smile To me it felt slightly heavier then NWX, but in a good way. I It just felt like improved version od the GrandTouch and I amazes me that the lower end model has the better action (at least to me) then the more expencive CLP-775.
The reason you feel the GrandTouch-S is heavier than your NWX is probably due to prolonged usage causing the key action to become lighter.
Posted By: kailord Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/14/20 02:32 PM
Originally Posted by GreatShowmanChopin
I have no idea what kind of insight this video can provide, but this is supposedly the CLP 745 key action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74_XByepfr0

I rechecked 745 again, after reading Burkie's measurement that it's heavier than CA79, and I agree. My previous observation was relative to Yamaha uprights & grand, and wasn't an objective measure. I tried to now pay attention to the key start weight, and feeling for the weight following the start. playing fast chords helped feel for momentum as well. Yamaha upright U1 with no pedal feels slightly heavier than 745, and surely got lighter with pedaling to match 745. Yamaha baby grand & C2X had similar weights which felt slightly lighter than 745 with no pedaling. 775 785 obviously stuck out sorely with the extra weight, which is a pity because I really liked the 785 speaker system and sound projection, it was better than CA79/99 but the weight is punishing.

745 had a palpable excess in bass. having two 6.5" speakers, it's a pity it was balanced this way. somewhere below G2 downwards, it starts to get obvious the lower you go. It's not as heavy as CA99 bass but CA99 has a clear-sounding bass, though very heavy. affects all voices since it's a balance/clarity issue, not the sampling. 745's bass does not irritate with a buzz when it resonates but does not sound natural compared to both uprights and grands. bass heaviness makes it sound a little mic'ed up. CA99's very heavy bass makes it sound very mic'ed up in a very pleasing way for listeners standing a distance away, but not for the person playing. it buzzes the cabinet a great deal for the player (CA99 forums mention a buzz a lot, likely this) which feels irritating when you feel it as you play - the buzz transmits down to the keys even, if you observe. CA79 doesn't have this problem.

Interestingly, 745's excess base isn't noticed when you play the demo songs. And I tried to recreate the bass of the demo songs by playing the same voicing along with the demo bass notes, but I couldn't somehow. The notes I played had the heaviness (also, therefore an associated murkiness) that the demo didn't have. If the demo used the same samples, it's funny how it avoided the strong bass, couldn't figure it out. But no matter which voicing and which demo track I tried, all the demos sound good in the bass, but it wasn't reproduceable when i tried. I even tried playing some settings like full lid, half lid, closed lid - closing the lid dampened the sound overall, and helped some, but the treble gets a bit lost. i'm thinking if i have the 745 i'd have to mostly play lid closed to reduce the bass. i think it doesn't have equalizer, couldn't find it on the panel. would have helped - there's some model with an equaliser built in but now i can't find which (3 band).

the key action seems to have some mild level of noise - the attached video quoted above. there is the usual noise when hitting keybed, a little more obvious than other higher end models (785, CA79), but there's also a little noise on key release. so each key gives u a CLUNK-clunk, one for down and one for rebound up. 785 action is softer, and the rebound has minimal noise. i recall CA79 may have less noise, have to recheck. i'm surviving now on an ancient DP that has degraded and this noise is extreme, and have a little fear as the DP ages and the felts get compressed, it gradually increases in loudness. my ancient DP has utterly compressed felt, i opened it up and jury-rigged some cushioning so that it's still tolerable until i get a new DP.

realised i didn't spend enough time with 735 - it's plastic keys appear to have slightly lower weight than 745. but the speakers are a similar 6.5", just having no mid-range 3", so i suspect the bass may have the same problem - to be fair i'll have to retest.

i haven't fully compared the headphone effect but it seems the binaural yamaha 2 sounds on headphone may have better spatial rendering than kawai headphone sounds. and certainly headphone sounds do not have any problems related to speakers & resonances mentioned above - the CFX etc all sound just as good as your headphones are, clear crisp bass as low as your headphones reproduce them. but headphones aren't a substitute for the frontal sounds from speakers which is the likely a primary criterion of most buyers.
Posted By: hector38 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/14/20 03:02 PM
Did you also try playing the 775 keys far up vs 745? I think the 775 keys are supposed to be longer (farther away pivot) thus easier to play up high?
Posted By: spanishbuddha Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/14/20 03:28 PM
Originally Posted by mareg
I know what a decent Bosie patch sounds like and it is NOT the P515. I'm a sucker for good sounding pianos and I wanted to invest in a very good sounding DP.
OT did you try the workaround suggested elsewhere, to change the touch to light, lightest. Appaarently it opens up access to different timbres to the Bosie due to the change in velocity curve.
Posted By: mareg Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/14/20 03:40 PM
Originally Posted by spanishbuddha
Originally Posted by mareg
I know what a decent Bosie patch sounds like and it is NOT the P515. I'm a sucker for good sounding pianos and I wanted to invest in a very good sounding DP.
OT did you try the workaround suggested elsewhere, to change the touch to light, lightest. Appaarently it opens up access to different timbres to the Bosie due to the change in velocity curve.

I did try the suggestions, and while it did sound better, I couldn't make it sound good enough that I'd see myself using it regularly. I have hope for the CLP 700 to fix my issues with the Bosendorfer
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/14/20 04:07 PM
The Yamahas are all about the CFX; the Bösendorfer is there for bragging rights. Of course, this is great for marketing because, after all, you’re getting “two pianos for the price of one”. It’s so much so, that only recently did the Bösendorfer get ‘binaural’. So, akin to the new-old Chopin piano, the Bösendorfer is a bit of a gimmick; therefore, don’t expect it to sound great. (At least not for another few years).
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/14/20 04:18 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
The Yamahas are all about the CFX; the Bösendorfer is there for bragging rights. Of course, this is great for marketing because, after all, you’re getting “two pianos for the price of one”. It’s so much so, that only recently did the Bösendorfer get ‘binaural’. So, akin to the new-old Chopin piano, the Bösendorfer is a bit of a gimmick; therefore, don’t expect it to sound great. (At least not for another few years).
Did not like the Bösendorfer voice on the CLP-675, loving it to bits on the N1X smile
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/14/20 04:34 PM
Yeah, I might have to skip the Clavs altogether. I’m starting to believe that Yamaha leaves the truly ‘special sauce’ for the AvantGrand. Granted, they don’t outright tell us this, but this is why the little NU1X kicked the 685’s ass, and I have a strong feeling that it’ll wipe the floor with the 785!

Granted, I will wait for the N1X-mkII because why be happy now when I can be happier later.


Disclaimer: Pete14 is poor; he can’t even afford the 745, so he is not really in the market for a new piano; however, he is avidly playing the lottery, and with some luck, things could change for Pete!
Posted By: noakim Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/14/20 04:52 PM
Might it be possible that they'll update the Bösendorfer voice on the 700 series with the one from N1X? Really looking forward to playing with the Bösendorfer voice.
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/14/20 05:05 PM
It may have something to do with the Spatial Acoustic Sampling and Spatial Acoustic Speaker System not done and found in Clavinovas.
Posted By: sam777 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/14/20 05:21 PM
I'll try to repeat the question.

With which keyboard is it better to start learning and training for a beginner adult? CLP 745 or CLP 775. Light or heavy.

DGX 660 owned. Graded Hammer Standard Keyboard. But I don't like the feel of the plastic keys.
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/14/20 05:43 PM
Either is fine for honing your skills so just take whichever you feel more comfortable with.
The CFX and Bösendorfer sound samples are brand new for the 700 series. They are not using the same sample from the 600 series. And, has been mentioned, both have binaural samples. These, too, are brand new.
Posted By: kamoji Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/14/20 06:42 PM
First post! (Long-time lurker)

I had some time with a CLP-745 at a store last week, and I thought I’d share some thoughts. They also had the 635, 645, and other older models for me to compare. Huge caveat: I don’t have much experience with digital pianos. I learned on an upright and also played a baby grand quite a lot. But now I'm in the market for a DP!

THOUGHTS

First: the GrandTouch-S key action on the 745 is way better than the 635 and 645 (GH3X and NWX actions, respectively). The 745 is just much lighter, and to me it's a big improvement. The difference was immediately noticeable, and I’m so glad I tried out this myself. The 635 and 645 were heavier and firmer to press, and the release was also stronger and bounced back harder. I’m far from an expert, but to my untrained fingers the key action on the 745 was far closer to a grand piano. I had read that some people here felt it was almost too light, so I was looking out for this, but I really didn’t think it was too light at all. Maybe that's personal preference, but the 745 is still objectively much lighter than 635/645.

I haven’t tried GrandTouch (non-S) on the higher-end 600 (or 700) series, so I can’t compare GrandTouch vs. GrandTouch-S. But of all the digital pianos in the store, I truly liked the 745 the most and thought it was the closest to a grand (aside from the AvantGrands).

Another significant difference between 645 and 745 was the speaker/sound system. The 745 sounded richer, fuller, and more engrossing at the same volume level (I tried the CFX and Bosendorfer voices). The 645, while good, felt like the sound was more on the surface. Not sure how much of this is purely due to the greater 745 speaker wattage (200 W total, versus 100 W in 645) or the new samplings or some combination of the two.

I don’t really care about the new fortepiano voices (Mozart and Chopin piano sounds). They seem fun, but gimmicky.

PRICING and AVAILABILITY

According to the store workers, there are extremely few 700 series pianos available in the entire country (USA). They said the supplies are critically short, due to COVID-19 messing up the supply and distribution chains. The store had one 745 to purchase (the floor model I tried) and that’s it. They had no idea when more will be available. They were told end of November, but they seriously doubt it. If you pay a deposit, you’re on a priority list when they do start to trickle into the country, but they still don't even know when that will be (they guessed November at the earliest).

Given the scarcity and the fact that no one has any actual pianos to sell to you, they would not budge on pricing. I tried to negotiate, but they wouldn’t move at all.

MY DILEMMA

I’m deciding between the 735 ($2699) and the 745 ($3499). As far as I can tell, the $800 more for the 745 gets you 4 things:

1. Wooden white keys (same keytops, same black keys)
2. Speakers: 735 has 60 W total (2 x 30 W), 745 has 200 W total (2 x (25 W + 25 W))
3. Built-in bluetooth
4. Page holders: plastic in 735, metal in 745

I couldn’t care less about the page holders; the plastic ones (on the 635 in the store) seemed perfectly fine and solid, not flimsy or cheap. Bluetooth is great, but all you have to do is plug a Bluetooth MIDI adaptor ($55 here) into the 735, and you’ve got it. Better speakers are great too, but I’d be using headphones almost all of the time.

So that means the main difference (for me) is the wooden keys. Is that worth $800?! Like I said, they wouldn’t budge on price, and they have no reason to, since there is almost no supply of pianos right now anyway. I tried to compare plastic vs. wood on the 635 (G3HX) and the 645 (NWX), and the difference to me was almost imperceptible. But the wood looks really nice…

Any thoughts? Save $800 for the 735? Or splurge for the 745 to get those 4 things that don’t matter all that much?

Anyone have any luck on negotiating pricing for the 700 series?
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/14/20 06:57 PM
No more than $3,000 for the 745!
Posted By: kamoji Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/14/20 07:13 PM
Yes ideally... But how?? With supplies so short/nonexistent, there isn't any incentive for them to come down on price. It's not like a normal situation where I can just try buying one elsewhere, causing them to miss a sale. They don't even have any pianos to sell!
Posted By: PlayerkaN Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/14/20 07:16 PM
Originally Posted by kamoji
First post! (Long-time lurker)

I had some time with a CLP-745 at a store last week, and I thought I’d share some thoughts. They also had the 635, 645, and other older models for me to compare. Huge caveat: I don’t have much experience with digital pianos. I learned on an upright and also played a baby grand quite a lot. But now I'm in the market for a DP!

THOUGHTS

First: the GrandTouch-S key action on the 745 is way better than the 635 and 645 (GH3X and NWX actions, respectively). The 745 is just much lighter, and to me it's a big improvement. The difference was immediately noticeable, and I’m so glad I tried out this myself. The 635 and 645 were heavier and firmer to press, and the release was also stronger and bounced back harder. I’m far from an expert, but to my untrained fingers the key action on the 745 was far closer to a grand piano. I had read that some people here felt it was almost too light, so I was looking out for this, but I really didn’t think it was too light at all. Maybe that's personal preference, but the 745 is still objectively much lighter than 635/645.

I haven’t tried GrandTouch (non-S) on the higher-end 600 (or 700) series, so I can’t compare GrandTouch vs. GrandTouch-S. But of all the digital pianos in the store, I truly liked the 745 the most and thought it was the closest to a grand (aside from the AvantGrands).

Another significant difference between 645 and 745 was the speaker/sound system. The 745 sounded richer, fuller, and more engrossing at the same volume level (I tried the CFX and Bosendorfer voices). The 645, while good, felt like the sound was more on the surface. Not sure how much of this is purely due to the greater 745 speaker wattage (200 W total, versus 100 W in 645) or the new samplings or some combination of the two.

I don’t really care about the new fortepiano voices (Mozart and Chopin piano sounds). They seem fun, but gimmicky.

PRICING and AVAILABILITY

According to the store workers, there are extremely few 700 series pianos available in the entire country (USA). They said the supplies are critically short, due to COVID-19 messing up the supply and distribution chains. The store had one 745 to purchase (the floor model I tried) and that’s it. They had no idea when more will be available. They were told end of November, but they seriously doubt it. If you pay a deposit, you’re on a priority list when they do start to trickle into the country, but they still don't even know when that will be (they guessed November at the earliest).

Given the scarcity and the fact that no one has any actual pianos to sell to you, they would not budge on pricing. I tried to negotiate, but they wouldn’t move at all.

MY DILEMMA

I’m deciding between the 735 ($2699) and the 745 ($3499). As far as I can tell, the $800 more for the 745 gets you 4 things:

1. Wooden white keys (same keytops, same black keys)
2. Speakers: 735 has 60 W total (2 x 30 W), 745 has 200 W total (2 x (25 W + 25 W))
3. Built-in bluetooth
4. Page holders: plastic in 735, metal in 745

I couldn’t care less about the page holders; the plastic ones (on the 635 in the store) seemed perfectly fine and solid, not flimsy or cheap. Bluetooth is great, but all you have to do is plug a Bluetooth MIDI adaptor ($55 here) into the 735, and you’ve got it. Better speakers are great too, but I’d be using headphones almost all of the time.

So that means the main difference (for me) is the wooden keys. Is that worth $800?! Like I said, they wouldn’t budge on price, and they have no reason to, since there is almost no supply of pianos right now anyway. I tried to compare plastic vs. wood on the 635 (G3HX) and the 645 (NWX), and the difference to me was almost imperceptible. But the wood looks really nice…

Any thoughts? Save $800 for the 735? Or splurge for the 745 to get those 4 things that don’t matter all that much?

Anyone have any luck on negotiating pricing for the 700 series?

Hello my friend, I think that i am going to buy 735, i am between 735 and 745. Tomorrow i will play 745 but i dont know when i will play 735
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/14/20 07:37 PM
Originally Posted by kailord
Interestingly, 745's excess base isn't noticed when you play the demo songs. And I tried to recreate the bass of the demo songs by playing the same voicing along with the demo bass notes, but I couldn't somehow. The notes I played had the heaviness (also, therefore an associated murkiness) that the demo didn't have. If the demo used the same samples, it's funny how it avoided the strong bass, couldn't figure it out. But no matter which voicing and which demo track I tried, all the demos sound good in the bass, but it wasn't reproduceable when i tried. I even tried playing some settings like full lid, half lid, closed lid - closing the lid dampened the sound overall, and helped some, but the treble gets a bit lost. i'm thinking if i have the 745 i'd have to mostly play lid closed to reduce the bass. i think it doesn't have equalizer, couldn't find it on the panel. would have helped - there's some model with an equaliser built in but now i can't find which (3 band)..

For the EQ go to - System - Sound - Brilhance - User
Posted By: kamoji Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/14/20 08:06 PM
Originally Posted by PlayerkaN
Hello my friend, I think that i am going to buy 735, i am between 735 and 745. Tomorrow i will play 745 but i dont know when i will play 735

I would have loved to try the 735 too, but unfortunately it seems that they are very hard to come by...
Originally Posted by kamoji
Yes ideally... But how?? With supplies so short/nonexistent, there isn't any incentive for them to come down on price. It's not like a normal situation where I can just try buying one elsewhere, causing them to miss a sale. They don't even have any pianos to sell!

This is not a paid endorsement or anything, but speaking from experience I made my CLP-700 series purchase through The Piano Guys Store. When I contacted them, they gave me a code for checkout where I got: 1) $300 off immediately (so for you that would be $3,499.99 - $300 = $3,199.99) 2) a new set of Yamaha head phones, 3) Free shipping, and 4) an extended warranty of three years (for at total 8 year warranty). Another very big consideration was NO TAX. So you pay, in total $3,199.99. And this includes free shipping. Link here if you want to take a look.

Now, granted, it would be $300 off of the price of the CLP-735 ($2,399.99). So it would be the same $800 difference. So I bring this up if you're trying to get closer to that $3,000 mark if that is your top budget. But if you just want lowest price possible and you don't care about the differences, as you mention, then maybe check out the package described above for the CLP-735. Link to the 735 here if you want.

All that said, I do not know when you would receive the instrument. EDIT: Wanted to include that some folks had received their instrument sooner than November, but no guarantees obviously. So if it's something you want ASAP, then go through your local dealer. But, the big takeaways here is free shipping and no tax so you're only paying either $2,399.99 or $3,199.99. And that's it. It's the best online deal I've been able to find and, for me, tax and shipping is at least an additional $700.

Hope this helps!
Posted By: kamoji Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/14/20 09:20 PM
Originally Posted by GreatShowmanChopin
Originally Posted by kamoji
Yes ideally... But how?? With supplies so short/nonexistent, there isn't any incentive for them to come down on price. It's not like a normal situation where I can just try buying one elsewhere, causing them to miss a sale. They don't even have any pianos to sell!

This is not a paid endorsement or anything, but speaking from experience I made my CLP-700 series purchase through The Piano Guys Store. When I contacted them, they gave me a code for checkout where I got: 1) $300 off immediately (so for you that would be $3,499.99 - $300 = $3,199.99) 2) a new set of Yamaha head phones, 3) Free shipping, and 4) an extended warranty of three years (for at total 8 year warranty). Another very big consideration was NO TAX. So you pay, in total $3,199.99. And this includes free shipping. Link here if you want to take a look.

Now, granted, it would be $300 off of the price of the CLP-735 ($2,399.99). So it would be the same $800 difference. So I bring this up if you're trying to get closer to that $3,000 mark if that is your top budget. But if you just want lowest price possible and you don't care about the differences, as you mention, then maybe check out the package described above for the CLP-735. Link to the 735 here if you want.

All that said, I do not know when you would receive the instrument. EDIT: Wanted to include that some folks had received their instrument sooner than November, but no guarantees obviously. So if it's something you want ASAP, then go through your local dealer. But, the big takeaways here is free shipping and no tax so you're only paying either $2,399.99 or $3,199.99. And that's it. It's the best online deal I've been able to find and, for me, tax and shipping is at least an additional $700.

Hope this helps!

Great info, thanks so much! The prices I got from the store also included shipping and assembly. But they did not include tax! As you point out, the price difference between 735 and 745 (or any other model) would still be the same. But this is definitely something to think about! Thanks!
Originally Posted by kamoji
Originally Posted by GreatShowmanChopin
Originally Posted by kamoji
Yes ideally... But how?? With supplies so short/nonexistent, there isn't any incentive for them to come down on price. It's not like a normal situation where I can just try buying one elsewhere, causing them to miss a sale. They don't even have any pianos to sell!

This is not a paid endorsement or anything, but speaking from experience I made my CLP-700 series purchase through The Piano Guys Store. When I contacted them, they gave me a code for checkout where I got: 1) $300 off immediately (so for you that would be $3,499.99 - $300 = $3,199.99) 2) a new set of Yamaha head phones, 3) Free shipping, and 4) an extended warranty of three years (for at total 8 year warranty). Another very big consideration was NO TAX. So you pay, in total $3,199.99. And this includes free shipping. Link here if you want to take a look.

Now, granted, it would be $300 off of the price of the CLP-735 ($2,399.99). So it would be the same $800 difference. So I bring this up if you're trying to get closer to that $3,000 mark if that is your top budget. But if you just want lowest price possible and you don't care about the differences, as you mention, then maybe check out the package described above for the CLP-735. Link to the 735 here if you want.

All that said, I do not know when you would receive the instrument. EDIT: Wanted to include that some folks had received their instrument sooner than November, but no guarantees obviously. So if it's something you want ASAP, then go through your local dealer. But, the big takeaways here is free shipping and no tax so you're only paying either $2,399.99 or $3,199.99. And that's it. It's the best online deal I've been able to find and, for me, tax and shipping is at least an additional $700.

Hope this helps!

Great info, thanks so much! The prices I got from the store also included shipping and assembly. But they did not include tax! As you point out, the price difference between 735 and 745 (or any other model) would still be the same. But this is definitely something to think about! Thanks!

No problem! Glad you found it helpful! Assembly certainly is nice, but I've watched videos on assembly and it seem fairly straight forward, so I wasn't too disappointed that wasn't included in the package. If you'd like to see for yourself I'll include links below for assembly of both the 735 and 745.

YouTube video of unboxing and assembling the 735

YouTube video of unboxing and assembling the 745
Posted By: Tozen Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/14/20 09:40 PM
Originally Posted by kamoji
Any thoughts? Save $800 for the 735? Or splurge for the 745 to get those 4 things that don’t matter all that much?

To me, the speakers and the appearance of the wood keys is worth the cost alone. I get that speakers aren't as important when you're mostly playing with headphones, but I feel like a piano is a great instrument to gather a community around, and when it does happen, I want the audience to be able to appreciate the sound. Also, I find that I need to spend at least some of my practice time playing without headphones, because there is otherwise too much of a shift in how it feels to play when it is time for my next piano lesson with my teacher. I've been banging away on the crummy speakers of the P45 for a long time... I'm ready for an upgrade. smile

I'm sure that the 735's speakers will still be 'good enough,' so at some point, it is a question of luxury, right? Honestly, if the 775 was available in the states, I probably would have gone for that instead of the 745 for the speakers alone, but Yamaha missed getting money from me for whatever reason. smile
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/14/20 09:53 PM
For those who tried the 745 and 785...

After all, the 785 Grandtouch action it's a lot heavier than 745 Grandtouch-S? Or just a bit?
I really liked the 745, but I wouldn't bother if it's just a tad heavier.
It seems that 785 it's in another league, sonically speaking. This is very appealing to me, besides the visual.
Posted By: terminaldegree Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/14/20 11:27 PM
Originally Posted by GreatShowmanChopin
This is not a paid endorsement or anything, but speaking from experience I made my CLP-700 series purchase through The Piano Guys Store. When I contacted them, they gave me a code for checkout where I got: 1) $300 off immediately (so for you that would be $3,499.99 - $300 = $3,199.99) 2) a new set of Yamaha head phones, 3) Free shipping, and 4) an extended warranty of three years (for at total 8 year warranty). Another very big consideration was NO TAX. So you pay, in total $3,199.99. And this includes free shipping.

1. I’m glad you’re pleased with your purchase (you’ve posted glowingly more than once about it now) but a couple things come up with this enthusiastic review that I wanted to clarify/ask about. If this is being delivered “free” via freight, and you have to return or repair it, I’m assuming you’re out hundreds of dollars in return shipping (or lost account credit) to, where, Utah?

2. If the business doesn’t collect sales tax, you still owe the corresponding use tax instead. Sure, you might not get caught (yet), but pro musicians who claim their gear on their taxes should be careful.

3. Yamaha is allowing dealers to sell upper-level, non P-series/Arius pianos out of their territory now? Typically you have to actually go to the store, in person, to do this. This is not necessarily something that customers need to worry about, it just piqued my curiosity.

4. I still think it’s better to try before you buy, which I’m assuming you didn’t do. Buying on specs or internet hype is not the best way, particularly for non-beginners.
Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Originally Posted by GreatShowmanChopin
This is not a paid endorsement or anything, but speaking from experience I made my CLP-700 series purchase through The Piano Guys Store. When I contacted them, they gave me a code for checkout where I got: 1) $300 off immediately (so for you that would be $3,499.99 - $300 = $3,199.99) 2) a new set of Yamaha head phones, 3) Free shipping, and 4) an extended warranty of three years (for at total 8 year warranty). Another very big consideration was NO TAX. So you pay, in total $3,199.99. And this includes free shipping.

1. I’m glad you’re pleased with your purchase (you’ve posted glowingly more than once about it now) but a couple things come up with this enthusiastic review that I wanted to clarify/ask about. If this is being delivered “free” via freight, and you have to return or repair it, I’m assuming you’re out hundreds of dollars in return shipping (or lost account credit) to, where, Utah?

2. If the business doesn’t collect sales tax, you still owe the corresponding use tax instead. Sure, you might not get caught (yet), but pro musicians who claim their gear on their taxes should be careful.

3. Yamaha is allowing dealers to sell upper-level, non P-series/Arius pianos out of their territory now? Typically you have to actually go to the store, in person, to do this. This is not necessarily something that customers need to worry about, it just piqued my curiosity.

4. I still think it’s better to try before you buy, which I’m assuming you didn’t do. Buying on specs or internet hype is not the best way, particularly for non-beginners.

Yeah, that's fair. 1) If it's under warranty it's covered by YAMAHA and I can either take it to a dealer or a technician will come to me. This is per their own warranty. Warranty information here So it can be a local dealer. No need to ship it to Utah.

2) No, it is tax free. I will pay no tax. This is personal/residential use and will not be claimed on taxes. Essentially like buying from Amazon from certain retailers.

3) I'm not sure this is a new thing as Faust Harrison, Kraft Music, Sweetwater, Guitar Center, etc. has done this for years.

4) I 100% agree. However, I had really no interest in any other digital piano on the market and was able to talk to people that actually played the instrument and were able to offer insight into its performance. Again, you are right and I would recommend everyone try before they buy.

I only offered that suggestion as the other poster had already played the 735/745. So most of that wouldn't be a concern.
Posted By: kamoji Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/15/20 12:30 AM
Originally Posted by GreatShowmanChopin
Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Originally Posted by GreatShowmanChopin
This is not a paid endorsement or anything, but speaking from experience I made my CLP-700 series purchase through The Piano Guys Store. When I contacted them, they gave me a code for checkout where I got: 1) $300 off immediately (so for you that would be $3,499.99 - $300 = $3,199.99) 2) a new set of Yamaha head phones, 3) Free shipping, and 4) an extended warranty of three years (for at total 8 year warranty). Another very big consideration was NO TAX. So you pay, in total $3,199.99. And this includes free shipping.

1. I’m glad you’re pleased with your purchase (you’ve posted glowingly more than once about it now) but a couple things come up with this enthusiastic review that I wanted to clarify/ask about. If this is being delivered “free” via freight, and you have to return or repair it, I’m assuming you’re out hundreds of dollars in return shipping (or lost account credit) to, where, Utah?

2. If the business doesn’t collect sales tax, you still owe the corresponding use tax instead. Sure, you might not get caught (yet), but pro musicians who claim their gear on their taxes should be careful.

3. Yamaha is allowing dealers to sell upper-level, non P-series/Arius pianos out of their territory now? Typically you have to actually go to the store, in person, to do this. This is not necessarily something that customers need to worry about, it just piqued my curiosity.

4. I still think it’s better to try before you buy, which I’m assuming you didn’t do. Buying on specs or internet hype is not the best way, particularly for non-beginners.

Yeah, that's fair. 1) If it's under warranty it's covered by YAMAHA and I can either take it to a dealer or a technician will come to me. This is per their own warranty. Warranty information here So it can be a local dealer. No need to ship it to Utah.

2) No, it is tax free. I will pay no tax. This is personal/residential use and will not be claimed on taxes. Essentially like buying from Amazon from certain retailers.

3) I'm not sure this is a new thing as Faust Harrison, Kraft Music, Sweetwater, Guitar Center, etc. has done this for years.

4) I 100% agree. However, I had really no interest in any other digital piano on the market and was able to talk to people that actually played the instrument and were able to offer insight into its performance. Again, you are right and I would recommend everyone try before they buy.

I only offered that suggestion as the other poster had already played the 735/745. So most of that wouldn't be a concern.

Well, technically you are supposed to pay state sales tax... On your state tax returns every year, you’re supposed to declare and pay taxes on all out-of-state, untaxed purchases. Many people don’t, and they might not get caught. But terminaldegree is right about this.

As for the potential warranty issues, thanks for bringing this to my attention. I’ll look into it!
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/15/20 12:31 AM
No more than $4,500 for 785!
Posted By: Burkey Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/15/20 12:39 AM
Originally Posted by sam777
I'll try to repeat the question.

With which keyboard is it better to start learning and training for a beginner adult? CLP 745 or CLP 775. Light or heavy.

DGX 660 owned. Graded Hammer Standard Keyboard. But I don't like the feel of the plastic keys.
As I mentioned earlier, note that the 785 has a lighter key action than the 775 due to its added counterweights. I would therefore only compare the 745 to the 785 (there's roughly a 20% weight difference between the key actions of those 2 - it is noticeable).

It just comes down to your playing style and how heavy (tiring) you want the action to be. Pianists who play for 1-2 hours in a sitting usually prefer less tiring actions.
Posted By: Burkey Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/15/20 12:53 AM
Originally Posted by Otavio
For those who tried the 745 and 785...

After all, the 785 Grandtouch action is it a lot heavier than 745 Grandtouch-S? Or just a bit?

It seems that 785 it's in another league, sonically speaking. This is very appealing to me, besides the visual.
745 is approximately 20% lighter than the 785. And for comparison, the 745 is roughly 30% lighter than the 775.

And yes, the 785 is a beautiful piece of furniture. On the same day I purchased my 745 my friend purchased the 785.

Both are a credit to Yamaha.

Osoreirimasu!
Posted By: YuriPiano Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/15/20 01:06 AM
So the takeaway is that the CLP 785 isn't safe for playing for 1 - 2 hours straight? If I play a heavier action slowly then increasing the speed over time gradually, will that be safer for someone's fingers?
Originally Posted by kamoji
Originally Posted by GreatShowmanChopin
Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Originally Posted by GreatShowmanChopin
This is not a paid endorsement or anything, but speaking from experience I made my CLP-700 series purchase through The Piano Guys Store. When I contacted them, they gave me a code for checkout where I got: 1) $300 off immediately (so for you that would be $3,499.99 - $300 = $3,199.99) 2) a new set of Yamaha head phones, 3) Free shipping, and 4) an extended warranty of three years (for at total 8 year warranty). Another very big consideration was NO TAX. So you pay, in total $3,199.99. And this includes free shipping.

1. I’m glad you’re pleased with your purchase (you’ve posted glowingly more than once about it now) but a couple things come up with this enthusiastic review that I wanted to clarify/ask about. If this is being delivered “free” via freight, and you have to return or repair it, I’m assuming you’re out hundreds of dollars in return shipping (or lost account credit) to, where, Utah?

2. If the business doesn’t collect sales tax, you still owe the corresponding use tax instead. Sure, you might not get caught (yet), but pro musicians who claim their gear on their taxes should be careful.

3. Yamaha is allowing dealers to sell upper-level, non P-series/Arius pianos out of their territory now? Typically you have to actually go to the store, in person, to do this. This is not necessarily something that customers need to worry about, it just piqued my curiosity.

4. I still think it’s better to try before you buy, which I’m assuming you didn’t do. Buying on specs or internet hype is not the best way, particularly for non-beginners.

Yeah, that's fair. 1) If it's under warranty it's covered by YAMAHA and I can either take it to a dealer or a technician will come to me. This is per their own warranty. Warranty information here So it can be a local dealer. No need to ship it to Utah.

2) No, it is tax free. I will pay no tax. This is personal/residential use and will not be claimed on taxes. Essentially like buying from Amazon from certain retailers.

3) I'm not sure this is a new thing as Faust Harrison, Kraft Music, Sweetwater, Guitar Center, etc. has done this for years.

4) I 100% agree. However, I had really no interest in any other digital piano on the market and was able to talk to people that actually played the instrument and were able to offer insight into its performance. Again, you are right and I would recommend everyone try before they buy.

I only offered that suggestion as the other poster had already played the 735/745. So most of that wouldn't be a concern.

Well, technically you are supposed to pay state sales tax... On your state tax returns every year, you’re supposed to declare and pay taxes on all out-of-state, untaxed purchases. Many people don’t, and they might not get caught. But terminaldegree is right about this.

As for the potential warranty issues, thanks for bringing this to my attention. I’ll look into it!

I stand corrected. I've been doing this for years unknowingly. So...I'll take another roll of the dice, it seems! Alternative, the seller could be paying the sales tax. So maybe that's the situation?
Posted By: Burkey Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/15/20 01:12 AM
Originally Posted by YuriPiano
So the takeaway is that the CLP 785 isn't safe for playing for 1 - 2 hours straight? If I play a heavier action slowly then increasing the speed over time gradually, will that be safer for someone's fingers?
It's 'safe' for adults.
Safety and tiring are two different things.

For children I wouldn't risk it though - with children your goal is to enchant and inspire them to want to play. Tiring them out physically (in addition to tiring them mentally) is counterproductive.

If you want a stair-climber exercise machine for fingers there are better and cheaper options.
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/15/20 01:17 AM
Originally Posted by kamoji
THOUGHTS

First: the GrandTouch-S key action on the 745 is way better than the 635 and 645 (GH3X and NWX actions, respectively). The 745 is just much lighter, and to me it's a big improvement. The difference was immediately noticeable, and I’m so glad I tried out this myself. The 635 and 645 were heavier and firmer to press, and the release was also stronger and bounced back harder. I’m far from an expert, but to my untrained fingers the key action on the 745 was far closer to a grand piano. I had read that some people here felt it was almost too light, so I was looking out for this, but I really didn’t think it was too light at all. Maybe that's personal preference, but the 745 is still objectively much lighter than 635/645.

I haven’t tried GrandTouch (non-S) on the higher-end 600 (or 700) series, so I can’t compare GrandTouch vs. GrandTouch-S. But of all the digital pianos in the store, I truly liked the 745 the most and thought it was the closest to a grand (aside from the AvantGrands).

Another significant difference between 645 and 745 was the speaker/sound system. The 745 sounded richer, fuller, and more engrossing at the same volume level (I tried the CFX and Bosendorfer voices). The 645, while good, felt like the sound was more on the surface. Not sure how much of this is purely due to the greater 745 speaker wattage (200 W total, versus 100 W in 645) or the new samplings or some combination of the two.

I don’t really care about the new fortepiano voices (Mozart and Chopin piano sounds). They seem fun, but gimmicky.
This is very much in line with my review in my earlier post. When I tried both the 745 and 775, the 745 instantly reminded me of my N1X, which has a true grand action.
Posted By: TrollToddington Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/15/20 02:02 AM
Originally Posted by Burkie
If concert pianists find lighter actions perfectly suitable for nuanced expression then I can't see why anyone would willingly choose to instead opt for a heavy action?

The distinction I was making is that children have weaker muscles in their hands, so that already makes all actions feel heavier. Additionally, adults have a choice as to what action they inflict upon themselves - most children are not the ones making the purchasing decision, so parents must be mindful of these facts.

Therefore I am not suggesting you purchase any more pianos than you need to - that need is entirely independent to the choice of key action.
As a kid we had an acoustic upright Petroff whose keyboard was very heavy. It did not stop me from exercising. So, speaking from my personal experience I do not agree with you.

At the moment I own a CLP-575 whose action and speakers I honestly hate - I do not argue it’s heavy but in the same time it is inconvenient for playing because it does not resemble an acoustic at all. Given the price I paid for it and the fact it was a ‘higher-end’ piano back in the day, I would stay away from any new Clavinova and would not consider them instruments for practice for an intermediate player. Beginners are quite well served by much cheaper options like the P-141 and the likes.

To all of you who measure the pianos like a sum of grams, wooden/plastic keys, power of the speakers and available sounds - you are all wrong. A piano is more about the connection of all of these “parameters”. It’s about the soul of the instrument. I am highly amused that all of a sudden there is a new much better sampling of the CFX. The acoustic CFX hasn’t changed for 3 years and neither has the sampling technology. Unless I am wrong, the Clavinovas are sampled at 44 or 48KHz/16 bit. An Untrained ear wouldn’t make the difference from 44/16 and 192/32. I guess the different sounds are produced because of a different processor and digital effects.

The only digital I’ve been impressed so far in my life was the NU1. Still, It did not feel like an acoustic because in an acoustic the hammers hit strings and in NU1 they hit sensors but apart from that it’s a very good instrument. I haven’t had the chance to play the Avantgrands but given their outrageous price I am not interested to.

Of course, I’ve tried some of the modern acoustics, too, at Frankfurter Musikmesse. The only upright that made me happy was the highest-end Petroff (selling price €16 000) - but you buy it once in a lifetime. With digitals, they always get“improved”, as players we are always not quite happy and waiting for the next generation.

The best solution would be to have one of those concert grands at home - even the baby grands are better than the Clavinova. Yes, I do live in a house but the shape of my living-room does not allow me to accommodate even a baby grand.
Posted By: Burkey Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/15/20 03:14 AM
Originally Posted by TrollToddington
Originally Posted by Burkie
If concert pianists find lighter actions perfectly suitable for nuanced expression then I can't see why anyone would willingly choose to instead opt for a heavy action?

The distinction I was making is that children have weaker muscles in their hands, so that already makes all actions feel heavier. Additionally, adults have a choice as to what action they inflict upon themselves - most children are not the ones making the purchasing decision, so parents must be mindful of these facts.

Therefore I am not suggesting you purchase any more pianos than you need to - that need is entirely independent to the choice of key action.
As a kid we had an acoustic upright Petroff whose keyboard was very heavy. It did not stop me from exercising. So, speaking from my personal experience I do not agree with you.
Where did I state a heavy action would 'stop' you from exercising?!

I simply pointed out the fact that a heavier action tires you out more than a lighter action. And given that most children (under 10) have smaller hands/fingers/muscles than adults - that means heavier actions effect them much more than they effect adults.

Originally Posted by TrollToddington
The best solution would be to have one of those concert grands at home - even the baby grands are better than the Clavinova.
See, it turns out that actually you do agree with me smile
Posted By: noakim Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/15/20 04:52 AM
Anyway, interesting to note the varying warranty periods. Where I live, it's only 12 months warranty if I buy from the official Yamaha store.
Posted By: Daniel van Veen Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/15/20 11:45 AM
Demo of 735, 745 and 775 in German:
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/15/20 01:14 PM
I speak a little German:

In a nutshell, he talks about the sound being miles ahead of the previous generation; so good that you will have a hard time telling it apart from the real thing.

“Oh, and that action”, he says at some point. Even something as subtle as the escapement is there, and the repetition rate is on par with a concert grand’s action.

He plays the ‘Mozart’ piano and swears by god that Mozart himself is in the room smiling, for he is so happy (he said it less formally; I’m just paraphrasing).
Posted By: ebonykawai Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/15/20 01:42 PM
Originally Posted by GreatShowmanChopin
No problem! Glad you found it helpful! Assembly certainly is nice, but I've watched videos on assembly and it seem fairly straight forward, so I wasn't too disappointed that wasn't included in the package. If you'd like to see for yourself I'll include links below for assembly of both the 735 and 745.

YouTube video of unboxing and assembling the 735

YouTube video of unboxing and assembling the 745

I assembled the 645 and it was probably the easiest digital I ever put together. Just had my hubby help me when I attached the keyboard. It's super easy with very clear instructions.
Posted By: Daniel van Veen Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/15/20 02:04 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
I speak a little German:

In a nutshell, he talks about the sound being miles ahead of the previous generation; so good that you will have a hard time telling it apart from the real thing.

“Oh, and that action”, he says at some point. Even something as subtle as the escapement is there, and the repetition rate is on par with a concert grand’s action.

He plays the ‘Mozart’ piano and swears by god that Mozart himself is in the room smiling, for he is so happy (he said it less formally; I’m just paraphrasing).

Your level of german is "fantastic" :-) actually, he didn't praise the instruments at all in this way - he is mainly comparing the instruments with each other.
I did feel though that the 735 sounded very thin, much thinner than my 635 at home. The sound recording was the limiting factor here, I think, but it was clear the 745 and 775 have more bass (could not distinguish much between the 745 and 775).
Posted By: Mickey_ Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/15/20 02:53 PM
Originally Posted by Daniel van Veen
Your level of german is "fantastic" :-) actually, he didn't praise the instruments at all in this way - he is mainly comparing the instruments with each other.

You are, of course, right. Pete14 is just kidding. :-)

I've just watched the video above. It's only now that I learnt (or, let's say, realized) that, of this selection, only the CLP-775's GrandTouch keyboard uses weighted, graded keys. To be honest, I had thought that that's a very common feature in the world of digital pianos in this price range... Is it, in fact, not?
Posted By: mareg Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/15/20 03:21 PM
Originally Posted by Mickey_
Originally Posted by Daniel van Veen
Your level of german is "fantastic" :-) actually, he didn't praise the instruments at all in this way - he is mainly comparing the instruments with each other.

You are, of course, right. Pete14 is just kidding. :-)

I've just watched the video above. It's only now that I learnt (or, let's say, realized) that, of this selection, only the CLP-775's GrandTouch keyboard uses weighted, graded keys. To be honest, I had thought that that's a very common feature in the world of digital pianos in this price range... Is it, in fact, not?

They all use weighted and graded keys. The gradation is different bettween 735/745 and 775. Whereas the grading is made by section (1-2 octaves ?) on the lower models and starting with the 775 the grading is fully linear.
Posted By: PlayerkaN Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/15/20 04:25 PM
recently i was playing the 745 clp piano, i'm a beginner. Compare it between a p515 and a yamaha b1. I felt it lighter than the p515 but little and very similar to the b1, I am a beginner, obviously the sensation is different on the acoustic piano, it will be for the scapement, excuse my English, and the sound is beautiful, they are had clp 775 but i can not play it
Posted By: Mickey_ Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/15/20 06:09 PM
Originally Posted by mareg
Originally Posted by Mickey_
I've just watched the video above. It's only now that I learnt (or, let's say, realized) that, of this selection, only the CLP-775's GrandTouch keyboard uses weighted, graded keys. To be honest, I had thought that that's a very common feature in the world of digital pianos in this price range... Is it, in fact, not?

They all use weighted and graded keys. The gradation is different bettween 735/745 and 775. Whereas the grading is made by section (1-2 octaves ?) on the lower models and starting with the 775 the grading is fully linear.

Hey, you are, of course, right. Thanks for enlightening me! I simply ignored the fact that the reviewer (and the specs) talked about linear grading.
Posted By: mareg Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/15/20 06:27 PM
Originally Posted by Mickey_
Originally Posted by mareg
Originally Posted by Mickey_
I've just watched the video above. It's only now that I learnt (or, let's say, realized) that, of this selection, only the CLP-775's GrandTouch keyboard uses weighted, graded keys. To be honest, I had thought that that's a very common feature in the world of digital pianos in this price range... Is it, in fact, not?

They all use weighted and graded keys. The gradation is different bettween 735/745 and 775. Whereas the grading is made by section (1-2 octaves ?) on the lower models and starting with the 775 the grading is fully linear.

Hey, you are, of course, right. Thanks for enlightening me! I simply ignored the fact that the reviewer (and the specs) talked about linear grading.

To be quite honest, I'm not that sure if it is much of a selling point. Probably most beginners to intermediate can't really tell the difference. The other thing that I'm not entirely convinced about is the half pedalling. Or linear pedal modeling of the 775 vs its little brothers. Does it really make a difference ? Pedalling is a skill in all itself that I have yet to master. Let alone half-pedalling !
Posted By: Mickey_ Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/15/20 06:33 PM
Originally Posted by mareg
To be quite honest, I'm not that sure if it is much of a selling point. Probably most beginners to intermediate can't really tell the difference. The other thing that I'm not entirely convinced about is the half pedalling. Or linear pedal modeling of the 775 vs its little brothers. Does it really make a difference ? Pedalling is a skill in all itself that I have yet to master. Let alone half-pedalling !

May I join your club, please, mareg? :-)
Posted By: Tozen Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/16/20 05:52 AM
This demo movie was posted earlier, but I dismissed its significance as a realistic sound sample because of the gigantic speakers behind the piano. However, it has since been confirmed that the sound demo (which begins at 3:18) was directly recorded from the line-in. As far as I know, it is the only movie on YouTube right now that is recorded this way. Therefore, it is probably the best example of the what the new samples actually sound like.

While it doesn't strike me as yet being quite as good as Garritan CFX VST, it's really impressive. I'm pretty happy with the sound quality, especially on the CFX.
Posted By: EssBrace Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/16/20 08:30 AM
Originally Posted by Tozen
This demo movie was posted earlier, but I dismissed its significance as a realistic sound sample because of the gigantic speakers behind the piano. However, it has since been confirmed that the sound demo (which begins at 3:18) was directly recorded from the line-in. As far as I know, it is the only movie on YouTube right now that is recorded this way. Therefore, it is probably the best example of the what the new samples actually sound like.

I think you'll find pretty much all the online demos were recorded from the line outs. Ambient recordings (i.e., mics picking up the piano's own speakers or separate monitors/amps) are rare.

It still amazes me that people can't instantaneously tell when they listen what kind of recording it is, it's just so obvious when it's line outs or speakers.
Originally Posted by EssBrace
It still amazes me that people can't instantaneously tell when they listen what kind of recording it is, it's just so obvious when it's line outs or speakers.

Those cloth-eared nincompoops!
Posted By: Mickey_ Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/16/20 09:25 AM
Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
Those cloth-eared nincompoops!

...as opposed to big-eared Mickey? :-)
Posted By: foxy.au Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/16/20 02:03 PM
Originally Posted by Burkie
745 is approximately 20% lighter than the 785. And for comparison, the 745 is roughly 30% lighter than the 775.

And yes, the 785 is a beautiful piece of furniture. On the same day I purchased my 745 my friend purchased the 785.

Both are a credit to Yamaha.

Thought I'd best introduce myself. First post here! eeek! :-)

I'm the 'friend' that Burkie is talking about. My wife and I have purchased ( but waiting for the arrival - mid to late October ) of the CPL-785.

My wife has been playing for more than 30+ years - and me. Well, have been playing for a long time, but have never read music, learnt by ear - BUT, now ( I turn 50 next year ), I've just started to learn to how to read music.

The future is bright and I'm hoping that this piano will be with us for many MANY years. 12 months ago (pre-COVID) we tried, a multitude of digital pianos. The sound of the Yamaha I thought was fantastic, I'd tried the Roland as well and found the key action pretty light.

However, both my wife and I loved the overall experience of the Yamaha.

Once we receive the unit, will definitely post on what we think.

The future is bright. Thanks for reading.
Foxy.
Posted By: PlayerkaN Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/16/20 02:09 PM
Originally Posted by foxy.au
Originally Posted by Burkie
745 is approximately 20% lighter than the 785. And for comparison, the 745 is roughly 30% lighter than the 775.

And yes, the 785 is a beautiful piece of furniture. On the same day I purchased my 745 my friend purchased the 785.

Both are a credit to Yamaha.

Thought I'd best introduce myself. First post here! eeek! :-)



I'm the 'friend' that Burkie is talking about. My wife and I have purchased ( but waiting for the arrival - mid to late October ) of the CPL-785.

My wife has been playing for more than 30+ years - and me. Well, have been playing for a long time, but have never read music, learnt by ear - BUT, now ( I turn 50 next year ), I've just started to learn to how to read music.

The future is bright and I'm hoping that this piano will be with us for many MANY years. 12 months ago (pre-COVID) we tried, a multitude of digital pianos. The sound of the Yamaha I thought was fantastic, I'd tried the Roland as well and found the key action pretty light.

However, both my wife and I loved the overall experience of the Yamaha.

Once we receive the unit, will definitely post on what we think.

The future is bright. Thanks for reading.
Foxy.

I am beginner, I also have bought clp 745, but i don’t know when i can have it
Apologies if posted before, but I came across this review and thought it was pretty detailed for the action on the CLP 735/745 along with other details about the tech and the pianos themselves.

https://azpianonews.blogspot.com/2020/08/yamaha-clp735-clp745-clp765GP-review.html
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/17/20 11:14 AM
A question non related specifically to the 700 series.

Do you guys know if it's possible to edit and save custom voices/layers/Splits?!
Or do i need to do manually every time i turn the piano on?!
Posted By: hector38 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/17/20 06:26 PM
Do the Clp 700s support bidirectional usb audio?

looking at a firmware update on the clp 645 it says:

https://usa.yamaha.com/support/updates/clp645_firm.html

V1.0x → V2.01
New features
Smart Pianist V2.0 App is now supported.
Transmitting and receiving Audio data via USB cable (USB Audio) is now supported.


does this mean that I can send USB audio from my computer as well as receive USB audio and record on it?
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/17/20 06:47 PM
Originally Posted by Otavio
A question non related specifically to the 700 series.

Do you guys know if it's possible to edit and save custom voices/layers/Splits?!
Or do i need to do manually every time i turn the piano on?!
I believe you can save custom settings via Smart Pianist while it's not possible on the instrument controls itself but I may be wrong.
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/17/20 07:28 PM
Originally Posted by Beowulf
I believe you can save custom settings via Smart Pianist while it's not possible on the instrument controls itself but I may be wrong.

You're right, Beowulf.
Just downloaded the Smart Pianist app and it's possible to save snapshots.
Would be nice if they implement a way to save these snapshots to some banks on the Clavinova

Originally Posted by hector38
Do the Clp 700s support bidirectional usb audio?

Yes, all 700 series.
Posted By: sam777 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/18/20 09:11 AM
Is it possible to connect studio monitors to the CLP 745 via the audio output to get the same sound as the CLP 775? What studio monitors would be suitable for this purpose? As far as I know, monitors will work at the same time and sound will go through them and from the piano.
Posted By: JoeT Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/18/20 09:31 AM
Originally Posted by sam777
Is it possible to connect studio monitors to the CLP 745 via the audio output to get the same sound as the CLP 775?
The CLP-775 has six speakers and a transducer. You can't get the same sound with studio monitors.

In fact studio monitors are made for an accurate and dry reproduction of the source signal close to the listener, while digital pianos are built to project a convincing reproduction of an acoustic piano to a room.
Posted By: sam777 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/18/20 09:46 AM
Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by sam777
Is it possible to connect studio monitors to the CLP 745 via the audio output to get the same sound as the CLP 775?
The CLP-775 has six speakers and a transducer. You can't get the same sound with studio monitors.

In fact studio monitors are made for an accurate and dry reproduction of the source signal close to the listener, while digital pianos are built to project a convincing reproduction of an acoustic piano to a room.
The CLP 745 lacks bass for me. Do you think that after a few months when the speakers warm up, the sound will become brighter and more saturated? Will there be more low frequencies?


I didn’t buy the CLP 775, but preferred the 745. But only because the 745 model has a keyboard I like better.
Posted By: Burkey Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/18/20 11:02 AM
Originally Posted by sam777
Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by sam777
Is it possible to connect studio monitors to the CLP 745 via the audio output to get the same sound as the CLP 775?
The CLP-775 has six speakers and a transducer. You can't get the same sound with studio monitors.

In fact studio monitors are made for an accurate and dry reproduction of the source signal close to the listener, while digital pianos are built to project a convincing reproduction of an acoustic piano to a room.
The CLP 745 lacks bass for me. Do you think that after a few months when the speakers warm up, the sound will become brighter and more saturated? Will there be more low frequencies?
Adding a USD $40 100-watt subwoofer picked up the bass nicely for me. Achieved the same result as a transducer on a soundboard.
Posted By: JoeT Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/18/20 11:36 AM
Originally Posted by sam777
Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by sam777
Is it possible to connect studio monitors to the CLP 745 via the audio output to get the same sound as the CLP 775?
The CLP-775 has six speakers and a transducer. You can't get the same sound with studio monitors.

In fact studio monitors are made for an accurate and dry reproduction of the source signal close to the listener, while digital pianos are built to project a convincing reproduction of an acoustic piano to a room.
The CLP 745 lacks bass for me. Do you think that after a few months when the speakers warm up, the sound will become brighter and more saturated? Will there be more low frequencies?

A real piano doesn't produce much bass, as it is a piano, not a bass. A digital instrument is intended to replicate that. What has been your experience with real pianos so far?
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/18/20 12:38 PM
Yes, according to physics of the piano, the lowest C has a very weak fundamental partial. The second partial is weak too. Only the third is comparable with the followers.

https://nanohub.org/resources/18884/download/2013.06.19-Giordano-REU.pdf

(Around p17)
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/18/20 12:52 PM
As someone pointed out, i found that CLP 745 speakers are slightly bass heavier(muddy?)....
And I found that that sound could get a little more power.
My two complaints with 745....loved the action (not tried the 785 yet)

Probably with 775, especially with 785 you'll get better frequency separation, with the bass sounding more clear, less muddy.

Studio monitors with 745 will be a welcome addition.
You could enhance the internal sounds and will be ready for the vst experience...
Posted By: PlayerkaN Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/18/20 01:14 PM
I really liked the action and the sound of the 745, I have never tried any kawai to compare
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/18/20 01:57 PM


23 September - 785 Showcase
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/18/20 02:27 PM
I was trying to find an information that i saw in this thread about differences between the 785 and others in the 700 serie, and i found:


Originally Posted by 9190
Well, I managed to get more information from them. Not too impressed though. But at least some more specific information. Here's what they answered:

"<…> Starting from CLP-990 (2001), the flagship models had 5 layers of samples, and the lower models had 4 layers. The new CLP‑700 series, CLP‑785/795GP have 6 layers of samples for the Yamaha CFX tone and 5 layers for the Bosendorfer Imperial tone, while the CLP‑735/745/775/765GP models have 5 layers of samples for CFX and 4 for Bosendorfer".

CFX = 6 Layers for the 785/795 and 5 Layers for the 775/765/745/735.
Bosendorfer = 5 Layers for the 785/795 and 4 Layers for the 775/765/745/735.

Any more info about that ?!

Maybe an exclusive ppp layer?
Posted By: kailord Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/18/20 05:52 PM
I brought my child (grade 1-2 level) to try out before I buy, comparing between teacher's kawai upright, yamaha U1 PE upright in the shop, yamaha baby grand in the shop, 745 and 785. At home she practises many hours on a 20 yr old DP (technics brand px203 which has hardness similar to 785).

I can't explain her findings but I believe there is merit to some of it, because a child's hands are weaker and would be able to detect resistances and difficulties better than adults. Her findings :

745 is the lightest (and she loves it - she loves any piano that is light due to her strength being more limited (just like how she likes the lightness of CA79 too).

The next heavier she thinks is 785. We have mention here that downweight of 785 is at least 70g and could be even 90g but yet she thinks 785 is perceptibly lighter than the acoustics. I agree the initiating downweight of 785 is high - the keys don't budge unless sufficient weight is applied, but maybe after the intiation, the inertia might be lower in 785 compared to yamaha acoustics, hence her conclusion ? To me, I notice the heavier downweight of 785 versus acoustics and found the inertia of acoustics to be no higher than 785, so I really can't explain her findings. Contrast this to how forums keep referring to the heavy weight of 785. My wife an amateur also felt the same way superficially comparing these models.

If I go by this, I'd get her the 785 but I worry what a heavy downweight could do to ruin a student's technique. The natural answer is to get an acoustic but assume I just can't, nor is silent piano an option.

And despite the good 50g downweight of 745, my kid it found to be starkly lighter than all the above pianos, perhaps due to low inertia so after the initiating downweight, the follow thru movements are light. I try to repeat chords to judge the overall inertia, short of a better tool.

Anyone understand how these observations can come about? Acoustics heaviest to a kid, then 785 then 745. Her home practice has always been on a weight similar to 785, which isn't good for young kids, and she's a strong 6 yr old and has gotten used to this weight. Yet she struggles a little with teacher's kawai upright (again, due to somehow acoustic feels heavier). I hope to find a DP suitable for her learning journey and can only consider yamaha vs kawai. (Kawai shortlisted to only CA79.). Thanks !
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/18/20 07:07 PM
Upright pianos tend to have heavier actions than any digital pianos on the market right now. The only issue I have is with the GrandTouch on the 600 series which has some kind of friction in its downward travel which made it quite fatiguing to play. That has disappeared in the 700 series. Now, it is still heavy but in a 'good' way.

Many kids start their piano journey on uprights such as the U1 which have heavier actions than the GrandTouch and they do fine with them. So, we as adults should not be complaining about actions being too heavy!
Posted By: PlayerkaN Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/18/20 08:28 PM
Originally Posted by Beowulf
Upright pianos tend to have heavier actions than any digital pianos on the market right now. The only issue I have is with the GrandTouch on the 600 series which has some kind of friction in its downward travel which made it quite fatiguing to play. That has disappeared in the 700 series. Now, it is still heavy but in a 'good' way.

Many kids start their piano journey on uprights such as the U1 which have heavier actions than the GrandTouch and they do fine with them. So, we as adults should not be complaining about actions being too heavy!
When i tried clp 745 i felt the same that a upright piano Yamaha b1 talking heaviness , is it normal!?
Posted By: kailord Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/18/20 11:55 PM
This friction, could it be the down weight that initiates the action? I didn't use actual weights to measure but I estimated with my fingers - by resting them gently on the key tops to feel how much the keys depress with that weight. All the acoustics and 745, CA79 start to move a little, with reflects their approx 50g down weight. Only the 785 remained immovable, reflecting what's said to be 70-90g down weight.

That sounds like there initial resistance, and may be what yamaha uses to try to recreate the harshness of acoustic uprights. After overcoming that weight, the rest of the action might be a little less inertia than acoustics.

I'm thinking that's why my family thought 785 was still lighter than both the acoustic upright and baby grand - they estimated the entire movement weight, not just the start weight. But I sense this start weight being significantly high may, as some in forums comment, generate fatigue, having each key needing a significantly higher strength to initiate movement. Might also interfere with a kid learning how to play softly, cos a kid tried to hit keys hard in general yet having to pull back immediately after. (My current old DP may have a similar issue, which may explain why my kid is starting to have issues in fine control when visiting uprights am hour a week at the teacher's). The only saving grace is, my kids opinion is 785 is still lighter overall than acoustics, and this might reduce the harm in purchasing 785.

Erring on the side of lightness would mean buying the lighter models mentioned, and it might have the opposite effect, giving the impression that pianos are light and training the fingers to press too gently, resulting in fumbling whenever exposed to acoustics.

Wonder if the conclusion is, none of these are suitable for founding good technique at the early stage for kids. (As an adult I feel I can handle all of these models.)
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/19/20 12:37 AM
Kailord, how was/is your sound experience with 785 ?
It's a huge step up from the 745 ?!
More power/more speakers/spruce cone speakers/transducers/bigger cabinet...
I found in my first experience with the 745, that if it was less bommy and with just 10% more volume headroom, would be an instant buy.
This week I'm planning to test the 745 again...
Posted By: kailord Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/19/20 01:28 AM
Originally Posted by Otavio
Kailord, how was/is your sound experience with 785 ?
It's a huge step up from the 745 ?!
More power/more speakers/spruce cone speakers/transducers/bigger cabinet...
I found in my first experience with the 745, that if it was less bommy and with just 10% more volume headroom, would be an instant buy.
This week I'm planning to test the 745 again...
i may not have much piano / mechanics knowledge but i think i judge audio / speakers quite well - i did some DIY speaker/audio, and equaliser / spatial tuning.

For 745:
bass is heavier than acoustics versus treble - to the layman it sounds impressive than just a plain recreation of a grand piano bass, u feel the bass oomph. to the purist who wants grand piano output, it's a bit too much bass (let's say double the output). someone mentioned here or in another thread that grand piano C0 doesn't have a low fundamental frequency like woofer output of DPs like 745. that is the scientific way of explaining this phenomenon. u can't reduce it well i think - i checked the features, any equaliser etc, not really present. but it's reasonably pleasant effect - my initial post mentioned a muddy bass BUT i realised later i had to factory reset all DPs when i test, and suddenly the muddiness improved greatly, someone must have set something wrong. it became heavy but pleasant. i'd buy this on this budget.

For 735:
only 6" woofers, no midrange speaker. expectedly, the treble clarify is reduced. a CFX sound here sounds slightly but perceptibly nasal. the nasal quality is less obvious towards the bass but u can tell if u listen out for it. nasal quality is a reduction in the 800-2000Hz region compared to 745, when your speakers are covered by wooden panels and grills, so it's no surprise. 745 overcomes it by having 8cm speakers enhancing it. a workaround i tried is, CFX sound, add brilliance to the tune of +15 or at least +8. that doesn't make it the same but it does overcome much of the nasal quality. Bosendorfer sound also has slight nasal quality but needs less brilliance, maybe +4/+5 to correct it. that's following the principles of using equaliser to boost frequences that get muted by lack of sufficient speaker output at affected frequencies (in this case) or blocked by material (panels etc). ideally yamaha should have an inbuilt equalisation to do this (maybe they already do, we just can't see it).
using these workarounds, it makes 735 tolerable to buy, bridging most of the difference, but buying 745 gives u a more
"real" output - the CFX fine qualities at the treble range (the metallic ring of the strings etc, all the expensive resonance in the sample u're paying for, shows up clearly).

For 785:
overcomes all of this. last i assessed, sufficient in all departments. i just can't say for sure now that its bass is as good as CA79. CA79 has the perfect output - the bass provides a very good reproduction of a grand piano, with sufficient vibration of the wooden DP chassis. i recall 785 is pretty close as well. good clear bass sounds of correct volume. to double check resonance, i would just adjust volume to the correct grand piano volume (i recall it's 2 notches down from max), play bass notes or octaves, put a hand on the wooden chassis, feel how much the body vibrates, and compare that with the vibration of a grand.

For 775:
short note for completeness - less clarity / balance in the bass compared to 785. better than 735/745. but the difference with 785 makes u want to pay the extra and go all the way to get 785 where speakers are concerned.

In comparison, CA99 went excessive, a heavy boost in bass, the entire chassis vibrates too much.
The stronger bass of 745 735 and CA99 makes it impressive for listeners - they don't feel the chassis vibrating and it feels that the piano is more "in their presence", it's like attending a concert with the piano up front rather than buying a seat far away and listening to a distant sound. it's an illusion provided by the stronger bass output. for the player, i'd want an accurate simulation of grand piano, which means CA79 or 785.

headphone output:
it seems yamaha binaural is marginally more soothing, less in your face. the kawai equivalent seems to be - switch headphone setting from normal to "Front". it slightly reduces the headphone effect (the feeling of sound coming from the ears and from within your head, to a sound which feels physically a little further away). but binaural yamaha does it one step better. i didn't test extensively but this is what i observe. workarounds to this could be - open-type headphones etc (i am no headphone expert but i think there are ways now to reduce this headphone effect).
Posted By: Burkey Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/19/20 10:57 AM
Originally Posted by kailord
745 is the lightest (and she loves it - she loves any piano that is light due to her strength being more limited (just like how she likes the lightness of CA79 too).

The next heavier she thinks is 785. We have mention here that downweight of 785 is at least 70g and could be even 90g but yet she thinks 785 is perceptibly lighter than the acoustics. My wife an amateur also felt the same way superficially comparing these models.
Were they comparing the acoustics with the pedal down (dampers off)?

If not, then you'll have to take them both back again smile
Posted By: kailord Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/19/20 12:09 PM
Yup just realised this damper pedal effect, and now I'm stumped. It's odd to have a piano that is only one fixed weight - it's like having to choose an average. I'm almost resigned to consider acoustic or silent acoustic instead. Not sure what to make of learning piano on a fixed weight DP during the initial phase where kids don't use sustain pedal, then growing older into higher grades that use more sustain but yet the DP remains at same weight....
Posted By: Burkey Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/19/20 12:26 PM
I think both the Kawai NV5 and NV10 have actual acoustic damper setups - different weight with the pedal down vs up.

However I think this added complexity actually slows down their speed and enjoyment of learning. I.e. they have to learn two different weightings and how to switch between them whilst playing.

This is actually an advantage of digital pianos that don't suffer from this design limitation - it wasn't a design choice made by acoustic designers: they just couldn't avoid it.
Posted By: Burkey Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/19/20 01:28 PM
Originally Posted by kamoji
MY DILEMMA

I’m deciding between the 735 ($2699) and the 745 ($3499). As far as I can tell, the $800 more for the 745 gets you 4 things:

1. Wooden white keys (same keytops, same black keys)
2. Speakers: 735 has 60 W total (2 x 30 W), 745 has 200 W total (2 x (25 W + 25 W))
3. Built-in bluetooth
4. Page holders: plastic in 735, metal in 745

Several people have been asking about the 735 over the last few pages.

One thing I discovered tonight was the keys on the 735 are heavier than the keys on the 745.

On the 735 I measured A0 to be 67/68 grams, versus 62/63 grams on the 745.

This is a 5th reason why the 745 is better than the 735.

Also with #2 - it's not really the increased power output but instead the sound responsiveness across the frequency spectrum that makes the 745's speakers better. User 'kailord' commented on this in more detail in an earlier post.

If you want a cheap alternative, go with the $500 P-125 - it has a better key weighting than the 735. Otherwise spend the extra on the 745 - I doubt you would ever regret it.

Originally Posted by kamoji
Anyone have any luck on negotiating pricing for the 700 series?
They gave me such a good price (USD $2,100 for the 745) that I paid the full amount on the spot. No need to waste time haggling - take my money!
Posted By: kamoji Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/19/20 01:41 PM
Originally Posted by Burkie
Originally Posted by kamoji
MY DILEMMA

I’m deciding between the 735 ($2699) and the 745 ($3499). As far as I can tell, the $800 more for the 745 gets you 4 things:

1. Wooden white keys (same keytops, same black keys)
2. Speakers: 735 has 60 W total (2 x 30 W), 745 has 200 W total (2 x (25 W + 25 W))
3. Built-in bluetooth
4. Page holders: plastic in 735, metal in 745

Several people have been asking about the 735 over the last few pages.

One thing I discovered tonight was the keys on the 735 are heavier than the keys on the 745.

On the 735 I measured A0 to be 67/68 grams, versus 62/63 grams on the 745.

This is a 5th reason why the 745 is better than the 735.

Also with #2 - it's not really the increased power output but instead the sound responsiveness across the frequency spectrum that makes the 745's speakers better. User 'kailord' commented on this in more detail in an earlier post.

If you want a cheap alternative, go with the $500 P-125 - it has a better key weighting than the 735. Otherwise spend the extra on the 745 - I doubt you would ever regret it.

Originally Posted by kamoji
Anyone have any luck on negotiating pricing for the 700 series?
They gave me such a good price (USD $2,100 for the 745) that I paid the full amount on the spot. No need to waste time haggling - take my money!

Thanks for the info. Too bad we don’t all live in Singapore, as $2,100 US is a crazy good deal!

(Btw, I’ve been to Singapore several times and have always loved it. I almost moved there years ago, actually, but it fell through...)
Posted By: noakim Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/19/20 02:42 PM
Burkie, where did you buy the 745 by the way? Interested to know smile Am in the market for 745 too.
Posted By: Burkey Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/19/20 03:12 PM
Originally Posted by noakim
Burkie, where did you buy the 745 by the way? Interested to know smile Am in the market for 745 too.
Yamaha Music (Asia), there are a dozen stores across Singapore. Their sale of free dust cover, headphones, and $50 discount, ends tomorrow (Sep. 20th).
Posted By: kailord Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/20/20 01:14 AM
Originally Posted by Burkie
They gave me such a good price (USD $2,100 for the 745) that I paid the full amount on the spot. No need to waste time haggling - take my money!

Small difference but thought it was about S$3100 = US$2280 with $50 discount already accounted for? Maybe the headphones justify the piano to be US$2240 but not sure what value I would put to a dust cover ...

Certainly beat CA79 of US$3600 in pricing. I have decided to buy neither but it was a good learning experience updating myself what's in the market. Appreciate all the inputs from forummers !
Posted By: Burkey Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/20/20 03:53 AM
Originally Posted by kailord
Originally Posted by Burkie
They gave me such a good price (USD $2,100 for the 745) that I paid the full amount on the spot. No need to waste time haggling - take my money!

Small difference but thought it was about S$3100 = US$2280 with $50 discount already accounted for?
USD $2,100 + tax (which varies country to country, and state to state - in Singapore it's 7%, in Australia it's 10%). In the US they generally compare prices pre-tax, and I agree they are correct, that's the best way to compare prices between geographies.

And yes, I deducted the $50 discount.
Posted By: Burkey Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/20/20 01:53 PM
Originally Posted by Burkie
Originally Posted by kamoji
MY DILEMMA

I’m deciding between the 735 ($2699) and the 745 ($3499). As far as I can tell, the $800 more for the 745 gets you 4 things:

1. Wooden white keys (same keytops, same black keys)
2. Speakers: 735 has 60 W total (2 x 30 W), 745 has 200 W total (2 x (25 W + 25 W))
3. Built-in bluetooth
4. Page holders: plastic in 735, metal in 745

Several people have been asking about the 735 over the last few pages.

One thing I discovered tonight was the keys on the 735 are heavier than the keys on the 745.

On the 735 I measured A0 to be 67/68 grams, versus 62/63 grams on the 745.

This is a 5th reason why the 745 is better than the 735.

Also with #2 - it's not really the increased power output but instead the sound responsiveness across the frequency spectrum that makes the 745's speakers better. User 'kailord' commented on this in more detail in an earlier post.
I visited another Yamaha store and confirmed this key weight difference between the 745 and 735.

I also noticed a 6th important difference between these two models:

The 745 has a music rest that is one octave wider than that of the 735. That's 16.5 cm (6.5 inches) wider.
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/20/20 01:59 PM
Music rests have always been bigger on the x45/x75 models than the x35.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/20/20 02:02 PM
I guess we have a new obsession: who has the longest music rest?

Go ahead, whip out your rulers and go to work; we want those measurements now!
Posted By: EPW Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/20/20 02:20 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
I guess we have a new obsession: who has the longest music rest?

Go ahead, whip out your rulers and go to work; we want those measurements now!

Sorry Pete14 I'm too shy.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/20/20 02:50 PM
...but EPW, you need to overcome your shyness and put that rusty ruler to work!
Posted By: PlayerkaN Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/20/20 07:48 PM
CLP 735

https://youtu.be/MhF9FZ6OxC0
Originally Posted by Pete14
I guess we have a new obsession: who has the longest music rest?

Go ahead, whip out your rulers and go to work; we want those measurements now!

Kawai ES-100/110: 23.5" or just below 60 cm.

Okay, it was probably a joke and this should be a separate topic, but it's a thing: lower end models have narrower music rests. Kawai has done it too at least with the CN27 vs. CN37. Feels like completely artificial product differentation.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/21/20 11:44 AM
To think that still, in this day and age, Kawai is using short/narrow music rests for their digital pianos is unacceptable!

Everybody knows that long and robust music rests aid in playability (it’s easier to play obliquely around the edges), yet Kawai, in order to save some bucks, is giving us itty-bitty rests.....

Shame on you, Kawai!
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/21/20 11:56 AM
The NV10 has an extremely large music rest though.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/21/20 12:11 PM
We are sick! laugh
Posted By: EPW Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/21/20 02:03 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
We are sick! laugh

So use the Music Rest to Rest on. LOL
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/21/20 02:11 PM
smirk
Posted By: trigalg693 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/21/20 02:25 PM
Originally Posted by PlayerkaN

Thanks for that link, it's the first clear picture of the keyboard being played I've seen. Looking at the angle the keys make when they're depressed, the pivot point is probably around 21-22cm from the end of the white key. Shorter than I hoped frown

Guess you have to pay up to get the longer non-S Grandtouch.
Posted By: PlayerkaN Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/21/20 03:19 PM
Originally Posted by trigalg693
Originally Posted by PlayerkaN

Thanks for that link, it's the first clear picture of the keyboard being played I've seen. Looking at the angle the keys make when they're depressed, the pivot point is probably around 21-22cm from the end of the white key. Shorter than I hoped frown

Guess you have to pay up to get the longer non-S Grandtouch.
I don’t understand that, it is bad?
Posted By: JoeT Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/21/20 03:32 PM
Originally Posted by trigalg693
Originally Posted by PlayerkaN

Thanks for that link, it's the first clear picture of the keyboard being played I've seen. Looking at the angle the keys make when they're depressed, the pivot point is probably around 21-22cm from the end of the white key. Shorter than I hoped frown

Guess you have to pay up to get the longer non-S Grandtouch.

That pivot length has been completely standard for GH actions since decades. Should be no surprise that it is still the same thing with a new name.
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/21/20 03:35 PM
Originally Posted by PlayerkaN
Originally Posted by trigalg693
Originally Posted by PlayerkaN

Thanks for that link, it's the first clear picture of the keyboard being played I've seen. Looking at the angle the keys make when they're depressed, the pivot point is probably around 21-22cm from the end of the white key. Shorter than I hoped frown

Guess you have to pay up to get the longer non-S Grandtouch.
I don’t understand that, it is bad?
Yes, it is bad in some ways.
Posted By: PlayerkaN Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/21/20 03:39 PM
I only try 745, i felt very good ! Big Keyboard
Posted By: trigalg693 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/21/20 04:11 PM
Originally Posted by JoeT
That pivot length has been completely standard for GH actions since decades. Should be no surprise that it is still the same thing with a new name.

The Grandtouch is different from a GH in that it uses that long, thin, bendy plastic thing instead of a hinge, so it's mechanically different. If they rebranded some GH variant as "Grandtouch-S", that is some interesting marketing...

Other than the excessive weight and friction, I do enjoy the Grandtouch's feel quite a lot. For my own needs, I don't need a heavy practice keyboard, but I think it's actually a good thing for beginners.
Posted By: JoeT Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/21/20 05:34 PM
Originally Posted by trigalg693
Originally Posted by JoeT
That pivot length has been completely standard for GH actions since decades. Should be no surprise that it is still the same thing with a new name.

The Grandtouch is different from a GH in that it uses that long, thin, bendy plastic thing instead of a hinge, so it's mechanically different. If they rebranded some GH variant as "Grandtouch-S", that is some interesting marketing...

No way! No manufacturer has ever done that. When the plastic GrandTouch S turns out being a renamed GH3X and the wooden GrandTouch S a renamed NWX, it would be a total surprise to everyone. wink
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/21/20 06:08 PM
I thought that GrandTouch-S had staggered black and white key pivots? So technically, it's not the same as GH because some keys will either longer or shorter.
Posted By: vagfilm Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/21/20 06:09 PM
@trigalg: sorry for my ignorance, but what is the "thin long bendy thing" you mention? Is there photo evidence of it? I am only aware of photos from a plastic+wood action (nw, maybe?) and the hinge there was typical of a folded action.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/21/20 06:44 PM
Originally Posted by vagfilm
@trigalg: sorry for my ignorance, but what is the "thin long bendy thing" you mention?

Now we’re even obsessing over ‘thinness’ and ‘bendyness’.

Oh, the good ol’ days of practicing for eight hours on ‘piano’ keys painted on a table; then heading out for the farm to milk the cows, shovel the pig-[censored], and to work the fertile land without one single complaint, those days are gone.

What have we come to, I ask? Is this the world we want to leave for our children?
Posted By: JoeT Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/21/20 07:22 PM
Originally Posted by Gombessa
I thought that GrandTouch-S had staggered black and white key pivots? So technically, it's not the same as GH because some keys will either longer or shorter.

Does it? Because the front and fallboard key dip on video looks exactly like what I'm used to from GH derivatives.
Posted By: vagfilm Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/21/20 07:26 PM
Pete14: of course not... We need a world of pianos with music rests as bigly as the bendiness of their thinglies.

My english is not as good as your jokes...
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/21/20 09:11 PM
Today I retested the 745.
With the Bass at -3 on Brilhance(EQ) setting...the most natural sounding setting.
Nice sounding piano and touch..very nice.
Posted By: PlayerkaN Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/21/20 09:17 PM
Originally Posted by Otavio
Today I retested the 745.
With the Bass at -3 on Brilhance(EQ) setting...the most natural sounding setting.
Nice sounding piano and touch..very nice.

are you happy with that piano? Did you try kawai from the same range?
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/21/20 09:45 PM
It's very hard to find a Kawai digital piano(or acoustic) to play in my city.
Music stores carry the mid range digital pianos only.
Posted By: PlayerkaN Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/21/20 10:04 PM
Originally Posted by Otavio
It's very hard to find a Kawai digital piano(or acoustic) to play in my city.
Music stores carry the mid range digital pianos only.
Me neither i can try kawai, but that i gonna. Buy yamaha, but i want to do a good buy, i dont want the best piano
It is impossible, but i want to buy a good dp smile i have to say i love kawai sound
Posted By: PlayerkaN Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/21/20 10:05 PM
Originally Posted by Otavio
It's very hard to find a Kawai digital piano(or acoustic) to play in my city.
Music stores carry the mid range digital pianos only.
You should record video 745
Posted By: foxy.au Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/22/20 05:08 AM
Hi Everyone,

Firstly, it's awesome to reading everyone's comments about the series 700. I mentioned back a few posts ago, that I put a deposit down for a 785 last week. Expected to arrive in Australia - late October????? Fingers crossed.

In reading the posts, it appears that no one has actually received any stock yet????? If you've ordered one, when do you expect to receive it?

Really looking forward to hearing about everyone's initial thoughts etc. :-)

Take care
Foxy.
Posted By: Tozen Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/22/20 04:22 PM
Originally Posted by foxy.au
Hi Everyone,

Firstly, it's awesome to reading everyone's comments about the series 700. I mentioned back a few posts ago, that I put a deposit down for a 785 last week. Expected to arrive in Australia - late October????? Fingers crossed.

In reading the posts, it appears that no one has actually received any stock yet????? If you've ordered one, when do you expect to receive it?

Really looking forward to hearing about everyone's initial thoughts etc. :-)

Take care
Foxy.

Yeah, waiting is difficult. Initially, the 785 was supposed to come out later in the year while the rest of the 700 line was supposed to get shipped in late summer. With the delays, the 700 shipments seem to be now scheduled to closer to the time that the 785 was supposed to be available.

I am not sure how to interpret this. On one hand, maybe everything will just come in the same window? On the other, is it possible that the slowed production will spill over into the 785 as well?

Most online retailers in the US are saying "estimated ship date, November" for all models. Until I hear otherwise, that is probably the best guess anyone has.
Posted By: hbejinha Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/22/20 04:58 PM
today i bought a CLP-775

at a 2795€ i think was a big deal.

i didnt try it so i hope the keyboard isnt very heavier comparing with my old CLP-535
Posted By: PlayerkaN Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/22/20 05:00 PM
Hello i was playing Yamaha GB1 Clp745 and clp775. I felt that 775 is a little heavy, something friction. 745 was fast similar gb1. I am beginner sorry
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/22/20 05:31 PM
I think the action in the AvantGrand N1X is based on the GB1/GB1K and I felt the 745 has a similar action to my N1X too smile
Posted By: kamoji Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/23/20 04:10 AM
Originally Posted by Beowulf
I think the action in the AvantGrand N1X is based on the GB1/GB1K and I felt the 745 has a similar action to my N1X too smile

Sounds great, interesting to hear!

So is the general consensus that among the new 700 series offerings, the 745 has the keyboard action that is most similar to an acoustic grand? Anyone have strong feelings either way on this? (I realize that there’s a fair amount of subjectivity...)
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/23/20 05:28 AM
Originally Posted by kamoji
Sounds great, interesting to hear!

So is the general consensus that among the new 700 series offerings, the 745 has the keyboard action that is most similar to an acoustic grand? Anyone have strong feelings either way on this? (I realize that there’s a fair amount of subjectivity...)
Yes, it is somewhat similar to a grand with lighter action.
Posted By: Burkey Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/23/20 07:12 AM
Originally Posted by kamoji
So is the general consensus that among the new 700 series offerings, the 745 has the keyboard action that is most similar to an acoustic grand? Anyone have strong feelings either way on this? (I realize that there’s a fair amount of subjectivity...)
Yes, amongst the 700 series the 745 is the closest. Then the 735/765, 785/795, and the furthest is the 775.

However none are as close as the Kawai CA79/CA99.
Posted By: Morten Olsson Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/23/20 08:40 AM
My brief experience with the 745 was that it actually feels more piano-like to me than the high end Kawais - not including the ones with real actions obviously. I'm used to playing uprights though - so I couldn't tell you how it compares to grands.
The 745 felt more crisp and mechanical than the high end Kawai actions that feel a bit smoother / softer.
I absolutely loved the action on my VPC1 by the way.

If business is still good when the lease for my P125 is up I'll probably end up picking up a 745 for the office. Haven't tried the 735 - if the action feels similar I'll probably just do with that since I'll be playing with headphones on 99% of the time anyway. A slab would be even better :-)

Cheers
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/23/20 10:09 AM
Originally Posted by Morten Olsson
My brief experience with the 745 was that it actually feels more piano-like to me than the high end Kawais -The 745 felt more crisp and mechanical than the high end Kawai actions that feel a bit smoother / softer.
I absolutely loved the action on my VPC1 by the way.

I feel the same way when comparing the NWX (P-515) to the GF action.
I also loved the MP-10 and the VPC-1 action (similar action, but VPC-1 adds one sensor).

It’s as if Kawai decided to make their newer actions kid-friendly (extra-light, bouncy, and fluffy); whereas, Yamaha is making actions for adults! whistle
Posted By: Ankee Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/23/20 10:17 AM
There's a disparity of about 500€ between the 745 and the 775 here. Given the current situation, there's no shop that'd allow me to test them side by side so I have a clear idea of the actual differences, so I'll likely have to go by what people seem to think overall.

My long term plan is to get a grand piano, buying this digital as a stopgap between a cheap slab and that one. Given that I'll be using it for at least some 5+ years, I'd like to buy something that won't feel cheap and that will accompany me as I improve my playing (only been playing for a year and change).

This being said, would a 500€ difference between the two make it worth waiting an extra month or two to buy it?
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/23/20 10:24 AM
I found very easy to play near the fallboard on the 745.
I believe that it's true for all 700 series.
Another reason to not spend so much in a higher priced key action 775/785
How do you guys compare the new Grandtouch S, on the 745, with Pha50 from roland?!
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/23/20 10:35 AM
What is the problem with the keys getting a little heavier near the fallboard?

I don’t mind this because I’m not needing to play everything close to the fallboard.

Just like when I go for a walk: most of the terrain is flat, yet sometimes I hit a little incline and my legs simply adjust and push a little harder (automatically); promptly the terrain levels, and yet again, it’s back to strolling ‘round the park. If the entire walk was one huge -never ending- incline, I’d have a bit of a problem.
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/23/20 10:45 AM
For me, a not trained pianist, makes the life much easier...
I believe for those who have trained hands and eyes, these things doesn't bother so much.
We already had a "Does the pivot length matter" war here: http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...ion-thread-lets-do-this.html#Post3021267

It wasn't the right place for it. Maybe this one is better. But is there really anything new to say?
Posted By: Kammerklang Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/23/20 02:07 PM
Originally Posted by Otavio
How do you guys compare the new Grandtouch S, on the 745, with Pha50 from roland?!

I would be interested in this comparison too. (Preferred PHA50s precision and repetition a tiny bit over NWX and both a lot against old GrandTouch) Perhaps You should start a new thread?
Posted By: Burkey Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/23/20 02:09 PM
You prefer the PHA50 over Roland's 'Hybrid Grand' action?

The 745 has a lighter action than the Hybrid Grand, but if Roland release a $1,500 slab with Hybrid Grand it will sell like hot cakes.
Posted By: Evgeny 85 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/23/20 02:12 PM
Master class on jazz improvisation is taking place at the moment, you can compare the sound Yamaha CFX and Yamaha CLP785.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaoeT65S1RU
Posted By: Kammerklang Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/23/20 02:16 PM
Sorry, I haven't played yet Roland's newer "Grand Hybrid". I meant Yamahas older "GrandTouch" (CLP Series 6...)

A successor of FP90 with that new action might be interesting, but to my opinion they would also have to improve the FP90s synthetic modeled sound - too artifical and somewhat metallic to my ears.
Posted By: foxy.au Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/24/20 02:24 AM
Originally Posted by Tozen
Yeah, waiting is difficult. Initially, the 785 was supposed to come out later in the year while the rest of the 700 line was supposed to get shipped in late summer. With the delays, the 700 shipments seem to be now scheduled to closer to the time that the 785 was supposed to be available.

I am not sure how to interpret this. On one hand, maybe everything will just come in the same window? On the other, is it possible that the slowed production will spill over into the 785 as well?

Most online retailers in the US are saying "estimated ship date, November" for all models. Until I hear otherwise, that is probably the best guess anyone has.

I think you're right there. There are very FEW CLP-785 demos (Youtube). Heaps of 735/745/775 - but pretty much zero 785.

In talking with Yamaha the Indonesian production line is obviously seriously affected.

In reading the responses above, no one has said they've put an order in for one, other than my mate Burkie (who ordered the 745).

Patiently, i continue to wait! <hahaha!>

Are you going to order yourself one Tozen?

Take care.
Foxy.
Posted By: Tozen Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/24/20 04:19 AM
Yeah, I ordered a 745. I'm pretty excited about it! I would have loved to have been able to get a higher model, but it's not in the budget right now. I love awesome speaker systems! I'm hopeful that the 745 will be good enough though, and I plan to practice with headphones most of the time anyways. smile

But to encourage you, remember that the 785 isn't technically late yet. It wasn't supposed to be out. So, the lack of demos and stuff is pretty consistent with what would have happened anyways.
Posted By: foxy.au Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/24/20 07:51 AM
Originally Posted by Tozen
Yeah, I ordered a 745. I'm pretty excited about it! I would have loved to have been able to get a higher model, but it's not in the budget right now. I love awesome speaker systems! I'm hopeful that the 745 will be good enough though, and I plan to practice with headphones most of the time anyways. smile

But to encourage you, remember that the 785 isn't technically late yet. It wasn't supposed to be out. So, the lack of demos and stuff is pretty consistent with what would have happened anyways.


Hey, Tozen CONGRATS on the 745 my friend! That is awesome mate! Great to hear! The 745 is indeed an fantastic unit. I've read every review I have about it. My mate Burkie has purchased one as well ( he particularly liked the lighter keyboard action ) having had the ability to compare all of them ( including the 785 ) in Singapore.

Plus, yes, absolutely makes sense why there isn't any consumer reviews out there, because as you said, the 785 was always going to come later. :-) Makes perfect sense!

Still super excited here and counting down the days for it to arrive! :-)
Posted By: marknitek Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/24/20 10:47 PM
I ordered a white 745 today. I hope it arrives in November but at the moment no one realy knows...
It will cost 2400$ incl. Tax and shipping. This is in Switzerland.
Posted By: Tozen Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/25/20 05:09 PM
Originally Posted by foxy.au
[quote=Tozen]Hey, Tozen CONGRATS on the 745 my friend!

Thanks! It should be fun.

On a different note, for those interested in the 775, this new video from Rimmers Music just came up in my YouTube feed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HqjSAums9s
Perhaps this isn't the ideal thread to ask, but do you folks pair a tablet with your compatible Yamaha piano via the Smart Pianist app or use other apps? I checked this thread and it wasn't too helpful, but interesting. I am considering purchasing a tablet to go along with my CLP and I don't know the advantages/disadvantages of an iPad vs an Android (Galaxy Tab S6/7, for example). Ideally, I'd like to use it for Smart Pianist, looking at sheet music, maybe FlowKey, and I would really enjoy having an app that has sheet music with backing tracks like what Yamaha NoteStar used to be (if you know of any such apps, I would be interested to know) Here's a link of what the app did, if I'm being unclear. I'm partial to Android, but would be willing to go with Apple if there's greater utility.

If there is another thread my question is more appropriate for, I apologize.
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/25/20 09:50 PM
GreatShowmanChopin:

I believe that another thread will be more appropriate since these 2 discussions will merge
- Android x Ios
- Tablet x laptop(2 in one)
- Laptop(2 in one) x Gamer Laptop(higher specs for vst)

But for a quick answer, any tablet or smartphone (2017 or above) will handle Smart Pianist, it's not a demanding app.
Posted By: johnny545 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/25/20 09:53 PM
Originally Posted by Otavio
I was trying to find an information that i saw in this thread about differences between the 785 and others in the 700 serie, and i found:


Originally Posted by 9190
Well, I managed to get more information from them. Not too impressed though. But at least some more specific information. Here's what they answered:

"<…> Starting from CLP-990 (2001), the flagship models had 5 layers of samples, and the lower models had 4 layers. The new CLP‑700 series, CLP‑785/795GP have 6 layers of samples for the Yamaha CFX tone and 5 layers for the Bosendorfer Imperial tone, while the CLP‑735/745/775/765GP models have 5 layers of samples for CFX and 4 for Bosendorfer".

CFX = 6 Layers for the 785/795 and 5 Layers for the 775/765/745/735.
Bosendorfer = 5 Layers for the 785/795 and 4 Layers for the 775/765/745/735.

Any more info about that ?!

Maybe an exclusive ppp layer?


My first post and reply, I hope quoting works as expected smile

It's really surprising to read about different sound precision/quality if there is no difference advertised in the data sheets ... But its certainly detectable, if present. My question and proposal: Is it possible to actually play the exactly same sample/song (MIDI?) on both types (735/745 and 775/785) and provide the samples for comparison?

I had the opportunity to play both types (GrandTouch-S and GrandTouch on 735 to 775) at MusicStore in Cologne, Germany, and was surprised, impressed and shocked at the same: The difference between 745 and 775 is enourmous, 735 and 745 however is negligible for key-touch. I decided today to order 745 as a prefer leight-weight key touch, but honestly, I think the surcharge between 735 and 745 is exaggerated. I appreceatied the feal of NWX on 515 as well, slightly lighter maybe compared to discontinued 645, bout I need something more piano-like from the appearence.

Excited to read more about first experiences! smile
Originally Posted by Otavio
GreatShowmanChopin:

I believe that another thread will be more appropriate since these 2 discussions will merge
- Android x Ios
- Tablet x laptop(2 in one)
- Laptop(2 in one) x Gamer Laptop(higher specs for vst)

But for a quick answer, any tablet or smartphone (2017 or above) will handle Smart Pianist, it's not a demanding app.

Roger that. Thanks!!
Posted By: JoeT Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/25/20 10:46 PM
Originally Posted by johnny545
I had the opportunity to play both types (GrandTouch-S and GrandTouch on 735 to 775) at MusicStore in Cologne, Germany, and was surprised, impressed and shocked at the same: The difference between 745 and 775 is enourmous, 735 and 745 however is negligible for key-touch. I decided today to order 745 as a prefer leight-weight key touch, but honestly, I think the surcharge between 735 and 745 is exaggerated. I appreceatied the feal of NWX on 515 as well, slightly lighter maybe compared to discontinued 645, bout I need something more piano-like from the appearence.

Both GH3X and NWX are GH derivatives, so they should feel similar. "Grand Touch" introduced with CLP-600 seems to be a new action OTOH. I suspect Yamaha just renamed the lower-tier actions to keep up with Kawai's "Grand Feel Compact" moniker.

Now everything is "Grand", despite being folded.
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/25/20 11:17 PM
About « <…> Starting from CLP-990 (2001), the flagship models had 5 layers of samples, and the lower models had 4 layers.»

My CLP150 arrived after the CLP-990 (2002) and has only 3 layers... and no interpolation (with a fixed velocity curve, we can increase the MIDI level from 1 to 127 and hear clearly the 2 gaps).

According to http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...lp-270-280-subtle-sound-differences.html

« 1. The 270/280 have 4 steps in the Dynamic Sampling, the 240 has 3. »

Perhaps the CLP990 was an exception (and with its wooden keyboard, it surely is !), but Yamaha produced 3 layers piano afterwards. (The CLP230 was even a 1 layer !)

Around CLP1xx, CLP2xx, Yamaha has an official claim about velocity layers, but afterward (I can’t tell when exactly), the subject has no line in the spec datasheets. I suppose it coincides with crossfade layers (CLP3xx, Pure CF Sampling). Note that I had to go to DPBSD to learn that this technology uses crossfade samples (no velocity gap). I think the marketing wordings missed something important or wasn’t clear enough.
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/25/20 11:21 PM
Originally Posted by JoeT
Both GH3X and NWX are GH derivatives, so they should feel similar.
No ! Just try them both and you will feel GH3X and NWX very different. I suppose the wooden stick balance the key differently (but does it matter ? Only the feeling does).

The last time I have tried was in the order : AvantGrand, GrandTouch, NWX, GH3X.

And each steps (excepted GrandTouch to NWX which was quite similar) was a downgrade. The GH3X felt too light. (Note that at home, I like the GH... but I don’t use it just after an other one !)
Posted By: JoeT Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/25/20 11:29 PM
Originally Posted by Frédéric L
My CLP150 arrived after the CLP-990 (2002) and has only 3 layers... and no interpolation (with a fixed velocity curve, we can increase the MIDI level from 1 to 127 and hear clearly the 2 gaps).

There was a time where you were happy to hear those gaps, because it meant you had multiple velocity layers and felt good about your purchase. It's like being proud of your 6 gear manual transmission instead of a 3 gear automatic. wink

Quote
Perhaps the CLP990 was an exception (and with its wooden keyboard, it surely is !), but Yamaha produced 3 layers piano afterwards. (The CLP230 was even a 1 layer !)

All manufacturers still produce 1 layer digital pianos: The entire sub $1,000 range features outdated single layer samples. Also the CLP-600 Binaural CFX sample is single layer and has been upgraded with the CLP-700 series.
Posted By: Burkey Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/25/20 11:30 PM
Originally Posted by GreatShowmanChopin
Perhaps this isn't the ideal thread to ask, but do you folks pair a tablet with your compatible Yamaha piano via the Smart Pianist app or use other apps? I checked this thread and it wasn't too helpful, but interesting. I am considering purchasing a tablet to go along with my CLP and I don't know the advantages/disadvantages of an iPad vs an Android (Galaxy Tab S6/7, for example). Ideally, I'd like to use it for Smart Pianist, looking at sheet music, maybe FlowKey, and I would really enjoy having an app that has sheet music with backing tracks like what Yamaha NoteStar used to be (if you know of any such apps, I would be interested to know) Here's a link of what the app did, if I'm being unclear. I'm partial to Android, but would be willing to go with Apple if there's greater utility.
I just purchased the Samsung Galaxy Tab S5e 6G RAM/128G SSD (it was only USD $377, no tax).

It works fine with Smart Pianist, and my Pixel 3 also works fine with it. Yamaha have fixed the issues that they used to have with Android (in the past you needed to use iOS).

The advantage of the S5e is it has an OLED display which is less damaging to your eyes than LCD (e.g. IPS, QLED, LED) displays in the Apple iPads (because LCD is backlit thereby shining a lot more light into your eyes). Apple know this - they're currently making microLED displays to replace their LCD displays next year. Also the Samsung tablets have faster SSD inside, which means they start up faster than other tablets.
Posted By: Frédéric L Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/25/20 11:35 PM
Originally Posted by Burkie
The advantage of the S5e is it has an OLED display which is less damaging to your eyes than LCD displays in the Apple iPads. Apple know this - they're currently making microLED displays to replace their LCD displays next year.

Don’t run salt in the wound... the N1X with its 3 digits LED is in my to buy list.
Posted By: Burkey Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/25/20 11:38 PM
Originally Posted by Frédéric L
Originally Posted by Burkie
The advantage of the S5e is it has an OLED display which is less damaging to your eyes than LCD displays in the Apple iPads. Apple know this - they're currently making microLED displays to replace their LCD displays next year.

Don’t run salt in the wound... the N1X with its 3 digits LED is in my to buy list.
The difference here is: something that displays sheet music you will stare at a lot of the time. Whereas I rarely ever stare at the panel for the instrument selection.
Originally Posted by Burkie
Originally Posted by GreatShowmanChopin
Perhaps this isn't the ideal thread to ask, but do you folks pair a tablet with your compatible Yamaha piano via the Smart Pianist app or use other apps? I checked this thread and it wasn't too helpful, but interesting. I am considering purchasing a tablet to go along with my CLP and I don't know the advantages/disadvantages of an iPad vs an Android (Galaxy Tab S6/7, for example). Ideally, I'd like to use it for Smart Pianist, looking at sheet music, maybe FlowKey, and I would really enjoy having an app that has sheet music with backing tracks like what Yamaha NoteStar used to be (if you know of any such apps, I would be interested to know) Here's a link of what the app did, if I'm being unclear. I'm partial to Android, but would be willing to go with Apple if there's greater utility.
I just purchased the Samsung Galaxy Tab S5e 6G RAM/128G SSD (it was only USD $377, no tax).

It works fine with Smart Pianist, and my Pixel 3 also works fine with it. Yamaha have fixed the issues that they used to have with Android (in the past you needed to use iOS).

The advantage of the S5e is it has an OLED display which is less damaging to your eyes than LCD (e.g. IPS, QLED, LED) displays in the Apple iPads (because LCD is backlit thereby shining a lot more light into your eyes). Apple know this - they're currently making microLED displays to replace their LCD displays next year. Also the Samsung tablets have faster SSD inside, which means they start up faster than other tablets.

Oh that's a good point! I haven't researched iPads much, but by now I assumed it was OLED. Do you use any other apps on your Galaxy Tab that you would recommend?

I also downloaded it on my Pixel 3, but since I don't have a piano to pair it with, it's pretty limited functionally. haha I just wanted to see how the UI felt and it seems to work perfectly. That said, the Pixel 3 is on their list of compatible devices, so I guess that should be expected.
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/26/20 12:54 AM
Audio Evolution mobile 5.0(daw(
It supports the internal Clp 600/700 interface.
And even for Android, it's a very acceptable latency when playing with soundfonts.
I found a binaural upright soundfont very ok, much better than the upright sample on yamahas.
Of course, connecting via USB cable.


Tried with Huawei p20 and mox6. There's a trial version.
Posted By: thejinsei Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/26/20 08:24 PM
Hello everyone!

My new Yamaha 745 just arrived and I'm so happy about it. I bought it two weeks ago and it was delivered within a week. No stock issues here in the UK. I called a few retailers and they all had stock of the black walnut which is the one I chose. While I was in one store, the sales consultants were (in so many obvious ways) hardselling the 775 model to me.They were raising the volume on the 775 and lowering the volume on the 745 (hoping I wouldn't notice). My heart was set on the 745 as the action felt more 'piano' like to me especially when I played an acoustic grand in the store to compare. I didn't notice much difference between the Grandtouch S and Grandtouch. Grandtouch felt a little heavier than the GT-S but then again, the Grandtouch S feels so much better.

I'm not a professional pianist. I'm a beginner actually but from all the pianos I've tried, the 745 felt the best to play (for my fingers anyway). The 775 was good also but a little heavy and I felt like I would get tired if I practiced using it. I didn't really care much for the speakers of the 775 either. The 745 is more than good enough for me.


The sales consultants who were hard selling really put me off when they refused to show me how to get to the touch sensitivity mode on the 745. They said 'it wouldn't make a difference' to the feel of the keys. Then again, why would the mode be there if it didn't make a difference? I was so convinced they had it set to Soft 1 or 2 instead of medium and they set the 775 on Hard I think to make the 775 feel superior. I couldn't get to the mode myself to adjust because of Covid restrictions they didn't really let me touch the pianos much apart from the keys. They were doing all the adjusting. Now that I have the 745 and I set the touch on Medium/Hard 1, the keys feel so much better and not that much different to the 775 that the guys at the store were so pushy to sell.

They were desperate to sell the 775 to me (of course to make money) but they didn't say very good things about the 745 in the hopes that I wouldn't notice because I'm a beginner. They said I would develop bad finger habits on the 745 and that the 775 is just the best model out of the two. Of course it is in some aspects of it, it is the model up after all but in terms of the key action, I preferred the 745.

Thank God for my piano teacher who knows a lot about pianos, from acoustic uprights, grands to digital ones... When I told her about my experience, it was clear that the consultants were just trying to mislead me to get me to spend a bit more.

This forum also helped me make the decision to go for the 745. Thank you to all of you who posted on here. The 745 is perfect so if you're thinking of getting one, go for it!
Posted By: Mickey_ Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/26/20 08:29 PM
Shame on these "sales" people, thejinsei – but more importantly: congratulations to you on your new piano!

Will you be returning to write about your experiences?
Posted By: thejinsei Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/26/20 08:50 PM
Thank you very much!
Absolutely! I'll certainly try my best to review the 745 as a beginner! :-)
I'm honestly so happy with the 745 that I look at it sometimes and can't help but sit down and play it even when I'm just about to leave for work, eat, or even watch my favourite tv shows. It's a major distraction for me! I bought it from another retailer because the other sales people were a little too pushy.
That's awesome, man! Congrats! Glad to hear you love it and are already making use of every opportunity to play it! smile I look forward to your thoughts on it after you've had it for a while!
Posted By: Mickey_ Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/26/20 09:21 PM
Originally Posted by thejinsei
Absolutely! I'll certainly try my best to review the 745 as a beginner! :-)

Originally Posted by thejinsei
I'm honestly so happy with the 745 that I look at it sometimes and can't help but sit down and play it even when I'm just about to leave for work, eat, or even watch my favourite tv shows. It's a major distraction for me!

Originally Posted by thejinsei
I bought it from another retailer because the other sales people were a little too pushy.

Good to hear; good to hear; good to hear (and rightly so)! :-)

Again: Enjoy your honeymoon, thejinsei – may it never end!
Posted By: ebonykawai Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/27/20 12:38 AM
Originally Posted by Frédéric L
Originally Posted by JoeT
Both GH3X and NWX are GH derivatives, so they should feel similar.
No ! Just try them both and you will feel GH3X and NWX very different. I suppose the wooden stick balance the key differently (but does it matter ? Only the feeling does).

The last time I have tried was in the order : AvantGrand, GrandTouch, NWX, GH3X.

And each steps (excepted GrandTouch to NWX which was quite similar) was a downgrade. The GH3X felt too light. (Note that at home, I like the GH... but I don’t use it just after an other one !)

I agree, I have both and they are not similar in feel. The NWX is, IMO, superior by quite a bit. I’m fine with GH3X, it’s comfortable and I don’t have any real issues with it, but NWX is more satisfying to play and I have better control with dynamics.
Posted By: Burkey Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/27/20 03:13 AM
Originally Posted by GreatShowmanChopin
Do you use any other apps on your Galaxy Tab that you would recommend?

ABRSM have a great scales training app for beginner/intermediate students:
https://gb.abrsm.org/en/exam-support/apps-and-practice-tools/piano-scales-trainer/
Posted By: Burkey Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/27/20 12:33 PM
Originally Posted by thejinsei
While I was in one store, the sales consultants were (in so many obvious ways) hardselling the 775 model to me.They were raising the volume on the 775 and lowering the volume on the 745 (hoping I wouldn't notice).

The sales consultants who were hard selling really put me off when they refused to show me how to get to the touch sensitivity mode on the 745. They said 'it wouldn't make a difference' to the feel of the keys.

They were desperate to sell the 775 to me (of course to make money) but they didn't say very good things about the 745 in the hopes that I wouldn't notice because I'm a beginner. They said I would develop bad finger habits on the 745 and that the 775 is just the best model out of the two.

Great to hear you are passionate about piano and happy with your new baby 745 smile

Not so great to hear that salesmen in the industry are acting like used car salesmen!

Note that this issue may be specific to the particular salesmen you encountered - it may not reflect the policy of store management.

I would contact the store's manager directly with a copy of these comments. Point out that such behavior has cost them at least one sale, and will cost them many more if they don't get their act together smile

The shop I purchased my 745 from let me factory reset the settings, and showed me how to do it, and change anything I wanted on several visits. They even upgraded my headphones without me asking. Sales staff need to learn that service matters. In the respectable, upstanding field of pianos of all places!

And good on your teacher for guiding you down the right path smile
Originally Posted by Burkie
Originally Posted by GreatShowmanChopin
Do you use any other apps on your Galaxy Tab that you would recommend?

ABRSM have a great scales training app for beginner/intermediate students:
https://gb.abrsm.org/en/exam-support/apps-and-practice-tools/piano-scales-trainer/

Great! Thank you!
Posted By: PlayerkaN Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/27/20 12:47 PM
Review? https://youtu.be/TYG4X1PV59k
Posted By: Burkey Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/27/20 12:51 PM
Originally Posted by GreatShowmanChopin
Originally Posted by Burkie
Originally Posted by GreatShowmanChopin
Do you use any other apps on your Galaxy Tab that you would recommend?

ABRSM have a great scales training app for beginner/intermediate students:
https://gb.abrsm.org/en/exam-support/apps-and-practice-tools/piano-scales-trainer/

Great! Thank you!
Whilst not yet an app, this software is also pretty amazing for pianists of all flavours and creeds:

https://piano-scribe.glitch.me/

It's a Google project that converts piano audio recordings directly into midi files. I plan to add the additional feature of converting YouTube performances directly into sheet music.
Posted By: Burkey Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/27/20 01:45 PM
Originally Posted by PlayerkaN
Is that user thejinsei? If so, please thank Frances for me! They're a true credit to their esteemed profession.
Posted By: alaxid Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/28/20 03:49 PM
I'm in the market for a DP upgrade and strongly considering the CLP-745 based on this thread and overall research. Currently I own a YDP-142 and use it to play mostly jazz standards. I'm looking to have a DP which feels more like an upright and has better sound output and have been playing for the past 3 years on it.

I'm usually a fan of buying used as there's usually a much better bang for the buck. It's still a 1000€ jump from some left stock on CLP-645 — or even used ones which can be slightly cheater (not much from my research).

That said, for the ones familiar with this — is there a huge gap between these two models for a beginner piano player? Obviously the goal is that this DP could be a better fit as I improve in the upcoming years.

What if we include the CLP-635 and CLP-735 in the equation?
Posted By: Daniel van Veen Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/28/20 04:54 PM
I consider myself a beginner as I don't take lessons and just play what I like. Previously, I bought a second-hand CLP-170, last year I changed that for a new CLP-635.
I am very happy with it; at the same time in my opinion the extra money for the 645 is well spent, I tried it in the shop and there is clearly a difference. That said, I absolutely love the 635, after a year and half of playing, and have zero regrets.

But, I would hesitate buying those things second-hand. The keyboard is prone to wear and tear, and I had quite some issues with the CLP-170.
Posted By: su12 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/28/20 11:50 PM
Just recieved the CLP-785 today! I couldn't be happier.

It's my first digital - I've always played on acoustics for the past 20 years, but moved into a smaller apartment recently.
The touch is amazing and I'm really impressed with how realistic the keys are to a grand. Obviously not the same, but so damn close.

It was definitely a significant price jump, but I tried it side by side with the 745 and 775 in store and it was a no brainer for me. I really enjoy the counterweight response.

I'll have to see how it ages as well, but I'm a very happy buyer now. Also looks gorgeous in polished black.
Originally Posted by su12
Just recieved the CLP-785 today! I couldn't be happier.

It's my first digital - I've always played on acoustics for the past 20 years, but moved into a smaller apartment recently.
The touch is amazing and I'm really impressed with how realistic the keys are to a grand. Obviously not the same, but so damn close.

It was definitely a significant price jump, but I tried it side by side with the 745 and 775 in store and it was a no brainer for me. I really enjoy the counterweight response.

I'll have to see how it ages as well, but I'm a very happy buyer now. Also looks gorgeous in polished black.

Congratulations! I'm jealous as I'm still waiting on mine. Glad to hear you enjoy the action. It's so hard to find any reviews out there that have any information on the 785. What do you think of the sound of it and what other details of the 785 did you like vs the 745/75?
Posted By: mwf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/29/20 01:08 AM
How you finding the touch/action? Is it too heavy?
Posted By: foxy.au Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/29/20 01:12 AM
Originally Posted by thejinsei
Hello everyone!

My new Yamaha 745 just arrived and I'm so happy about it. I bought it two weeks ago and it was delivered within a week. No stock issues here in the UK. I called a few retailers and they all had stock of the black walnut which is the one I chose. While I was in one store, the sales consultants were (in so many obvious ways) hardselling the 775 model to me.They were raising the volume on the 775 and lowering the volume on the 745 (hoping I wouldn't notice). My heart was set on the 745 as the action felt more 'piano' like to me especially when I played an acoustic grand in the store to compare. I didn't notice much difference between the Grandtouch S and Grandtouch. Grandtouch felt a little heavier than the GT-S but then again, the Grandtouch S feels so much better.

Heya mate! Congrats on your new purchase that sounds SUPER exciting! CONGRATS indeed! Sorry to hear of your salesperson experience. I'm glad you stuck to your guns! Go you!

Looking forward to hearing more about your investment! I'm a beginner as well.

Take care!
Posted By: foxy.au Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/29/20 01:31 AM
Originally Posted by su12
Just recieved the CLP-785 today! I couldn't be happier.

It's my first digital - I've always played on acoustics for the past 20 years, but moved into a smaller apartment recently.
The touch is amazing and I'm really impressed with how realistic the keys are to a grand. Obviously not the same, but so damn close.

It was definitely a significant price jump, but I tried it side by side with the 745 and 775 in store and it was a no brainer for me. I really enjoy the counterweight response.

I'll have to see how it ages as well, but I'm a very happy buyer now. Also looks gorgeous in polished black.

WOW! Congratulations su12 :-) What awesome news! You appear to be the first one in this thread that has received one! Go You! :-)

Glad you're enjoying the key action! I've also ordered one myself. It speaking with a friend of mine, Burkie ( who's on this forum ). He mentioned that the 745 was the lightest key action, then the 785 and the heaviest being the 775. Did you experience the same?

It must sound amazing as well!

Unfortunately budget constraints meant that my wife and I could only get the Matte Black finish. Would have LOVED to have got the polished ebony. Here in Australia it's $1,200 more for that model.

Congrats again. Looking forward to seeing a couple of photos or even a link to youtube! :-)
Posted By: Tozen Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/29/20 02:14 AM
Originally Posted by su12
Just recieved the CLP-785 today! I couldn't be happier.

It's my first digital - I've always played on acoustics for the past 20 years, but moved into a smaller apartment recently.
The touch is amazing and I'm really impressed with how realistic the keys are to a grand. Obviously not the same, but so damn close.

It was definitely a significant price jump, but I tried it side by side with the 745 and 775 in store and it was a no brainer for me. I really enjoy the counterweight response.

I'll have to see how it ages as well, but I'm a very happy buyer now. Also looks gorgeous in polished black.

Awesome! Yeah, if you feel like it, post a picture. smile I'm pleasantly surprised that you got yours already, and even more surprised that it is in the polished black. I was starting to think that the polished black models of the CLP series were especially behind. Anyways... congrats!
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/29/20 02:59 AM
Originally Posted by foxy.au
WOW! Congratulations su12 :-) What awesome news! You appear to be the first one in this thread that has received one! Go You! :-)

Glad you're enjoying the key action! I've also ordered one myself. It speaking with a friend of mine, Burkie ( who's on this forum ). He mentioned that the 745 was the lightest key action, then the 785 and the heaviest being the 775. Did you experience the same?

It must sound amazing as well!

Unfortunately budget constraints meant that my wife and I could only get the Matte Black finish. Would have LOVED to have got the polished ebony. Here in Australia it's $1,200 more for that model.

Congrats again. Looking forward to seeing a couple of photos or even a link to youtube! :-)
Satin Black is a very beautiful finish as well! The biggest plus is you don't have to worry about annoying scratches that may appear smile
Posted By: foxy.au Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/29/20 03:25 AM
Originally Posted by Beowulf
Satin Black is a very beautiful finish as well! The biggest plus is you don't have to worry about annoying scratches that may appear smile

Yes, the matte black is indeed a better solution regarding scratches and finger prints! :-)

As said, would have LOVED it. But $1,200 is just too much. Sigh.

Take care!
Posted By: su12 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/29/20 04:55 AM
Here it is.... smile

https://imgur.com/7h96gXk

I got lucky, grabbed the last one in stock at the local music store.

I would agree that 745 has the lightest keys and 785 is heavier. I did prefer this though, with the counterweights it feels like it bounces back quicker.

Sounds wonderful with headphones as well. I keep thinking my headphones aren't even plugged in...
Posted By: Tozen Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/29/20 05:53 AM
Originally Posted by su12
Here it is.... smile

https://imgur.com/7h96gXk

I got lucky, grabbed the last one in stock at the local music store.

I would agree that 745 has the lightest keys and 785 is heavier. I did prefer this though, with the counterweights it feels like it bounces back quicker.

Sounds wonderful with headphones as well. I keep thinking my headphones aren't even plugged in...

Wow... that's gorgeous! Again, I'm super happy for you. That's pretty cool about the headphones too, and encouraging because it should hopefully be true for the entire line. wink
Posted By: Beowulf Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/29/20 06:01 AM
Originally Posted by su12
Here it is.... smile

https://imgur.com/7h96gXk

I got lucky, grabbed the last one in stock at the local music store.

I would agree that 745 has the lightest keys and 785 is heavier. I did prefer this though, with the counterweights it feels like it bounces back quicker.

Sounds wonderful with headphones as well. I keep thinking my headphones aren't even plugged in...
Would be great if you could share how the Bösendorfer sounds over headphones!
Posted By: Daniel van Veen Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/29/20 06:50 AM
Originally Posted by foxy.au
As said, would have LOVED it. But $1,200 is just too much. Sigh.

Take care!

Those prices can be really weird. When I bought the CLP-635, the PE version was 5 euros(!!) more expensive than the regular finishes.
Not sure how this works...
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/29/20 12:52 PM
Originally Posted by su12
Here it is.... smile

https://imgur.com/7h96gXk

I got lucky, grabbed the last one in stock at the local music store.

I would agree that 745 has the lightest keys and 785 is heavier. I did prefer this though, with the counterweights it feels like it bounces back quicker.

Sounds wonderful with headphones as well. I keep thinking my headphones aren't even plugged in...

Beautiful, beautiful !

CLP x85pe/Nu1x are a beautiful piece of furniture....just a tad behind the NV5, the most good-looking DP.
Posted By: su12 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/29/20 05:38 PM
Originally Posted by Daniel van Veen
Originally Posted by foxy.au
As said, would have LOVED it. But $1,200 is just too much. Sigh.

Take care!

Those prices can be really weird. When I bought the CLP-635, the PE version was 5 euros(!!) more expensive than the regular finishes.
Not sure how this works...


Sounds like the ranges are all over the place! Here in Canada the difference was $400....
Posted By: JackQ89 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/29/20 06:15 PM
How long is the keys on the CLP 745? and how long for the 775/785?
Posted By: jerha202 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/29/20 08:39 PM
I got my CLP-735 today, and it sounds good but... did anyone notice an unpleasant resonance when playing the A4 key of the CFX, or is it only me? At first I thought it was the speakers or some mechanical resonance, but it's really only that note and the CFX - the Bösendorfer and the other instruments sound perfectly fine. So now I'm thinking it's in the sound sample.
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/29/20 08:59 PM
Originally Posted by jerha202
I got my CLP-735 today, and it sounds good but... did anyone notice an unpleasant resonance when playing the A4 key of the CFX, or is it only me? At first I thought it was the speakers or some mechanical resonance, but it's really only that note and the CFX - the Bösendorfer and the other instruments sound perfectly fine. So now I'm thinking it's in the sound sample.

Do you hear it only with speakers, or does it also sound unpleasant with headphones?
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/29/20 09:30 PM
Originally Posted by jerha202
I got my CLP-735 today, and it sounds good but... did anyone notice an unpleasant resonance when playing the A4 key of the CFX, or is it only me? At first I thought it was the speakers or some mechanical resonance, but it's really only that note and the CFX - the Bösendorfer and the other instruments sound perfectly fine. So now I'm thinking it's in the sound sample.


While testing the Clp 745, i heard some kind of weird resonance too...but i didn't checked the headphone output...

Sad that, the headphone output have another sample, right? Binaural one...
Posted By: Burkey Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/30/20 03:48 AM
Originally Posted by JackQ89
How long is the keys on the CLP 745? and how long for the 775/785?
I believe the 775/785 key length (to pivot point) remain the same as the 675/685, which is about 26 cm.

The 745 'feels like' about 22 cm (it's definitely in the 21 to 24 range) - I'll measure it when it arrives in a couple of months.
Posted By: jerha202 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/30/20 05:34 PM
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by jerha202
I got my CLP-735 today, and it sounds good but... did anyone notice an unpleasant resonance when playing the A4 key of the CFX, or is it only me? At first I thought it was the speakers or some mechanical resonance, but it's really only that note and the CFX - the Bösendorfer and the other instruments sound perfectly fine. So now I'm thinking it's in the sound sample.

Do you hear it only with speakers, or does it also sound unpleasant with headphones?

I just tested, and yes it's only with speakers, not with headphones.

I would be very interested to know if anyone else with a CLP-7xx can hear something particular with note A4 (the A to the right of middle C) on the CFX and with speakers!
Posted By: mareg Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/30/20 07:21 PM
I don't have the CLP 700 series.

But I do have a Yamaha P515 and, for me, it is the E right from the middle C that makes a very noticeable buzzing (mechanical resonance) on the note with the CFX sample. It is very annoying but I've learn to live with it. It only does it with the digital speakers of the piano so I associated it with perhaps the actual material of the piano entering some sound resonance with this particular note. Any chords that include that E will result in intense buzzing of that key. It is very strong. Akin to a cell phone buzz. I was refreining from calling the shop where I bought the piano because I'm not sure it is acutally a defect or just a result of the speakers making that particular note buzz the key.
Posted By: su12 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 09/30/20 07:36 PM
Originally Posted by jerha202
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by jerha202
I got my CLP-735 today, and it sounds good but... did anyone notice an unpleasant resonance when playing the A4 key of the CFX, or is it only me? At first I thought it was the speakers or some mechanical resonance, but it's really only that note and the CFX - the Bösendorfer and the other instruments sound perfectly fine. So now I'm thinking it's in the sound sample.

Do you hear it only with speakers, or does it also sound unpleasant with headphones?

I just tested, and yes it's only with speakers, not with headphones.

I would be very interested to know if anyone else with a CLP-7xx can hear something particular with note A4 (the A to the right of middle C) on the CFX and with speakers!

Just tried on 785 and the A4 played alone on CFX sounds fine.

However, I do notice a strange resonance when I play a B flat maj 7th chord on CFX with the speakers, with volume set above 50%. Probably coming from the semitone clash of the A and B flat.

I wonder if the speaker differences play a role - I think the speaker system is different than 745 (785 has spruce come speaker? Someone feel free to correct me).

In any case I've been using the Bosendorfer sample more, and I'm not always playing this semitone, so it does not bother me much. Unfortunate though...
Posted By: foxy.au Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 10/01/20 12:45 AM
Originally Posted by Daniel van Veen
Those prices can be really weird. When I bought the CLP-635, the PE version was 5 euros(!!) more expensive than the regular finishes.
Not sure how this works...

I'm not sure how it works either Daniel. Having read this thread in it's entirety, us Aussies cop a bit of 'Yamaha-Tax' - lol. Seriously, Indondesia isn't that far.

Originally Posted by su12
Sounds like the ranges are all over the place! Here in Canada the difference was $400....

Wow, at those prices I definitely would have gone the Polished Ebony.

However, it is what it is though! I can't change anything.

From an update perspective, I rang my dealer yesterday and asked for a potential arrival date. They're estimating late October or even late November. The wait is intolerable! hahaha.

Take care everyone!
Originally Posted by foxy.au
Originally Posted by Daniel van Veen
Those prices can be really weird. When I bought the CLP-635, the PE version was 5 euros(!!) more expensive than the regular finishes.
Not sure how this works...

I'm not sure how it works either Daniel. Having read this thread in it's entirety, us Aussies cop a bit of 'Yamaha-Tax' - lol. Seriously, Indondesia isn't that far.

Originally Posted by su12
Sounds like the ranges are all over the place! Here in Canada the difference was $400....

Wow, at those prices I definitely would have gone the Polished Ebony.

However, it is what it is though! I can't change anything.

From an update perspective, I rang my dealer yesterday and asked for a potential arrival date. They're estimating late October or even late November. The wait is intolerable! hahaha.

Take care everyone!

I'm right there with ya, foxy. I'm still watching old CLP-6xx and CLP-7xx reviews ad nauseam to tide me over until i get my 785. It's agony! haha I've also been trying to figure out which tablet to get to pair it with for Bluetooth apps and all that.

I went with the matte black as my first choice and it just happened to be the lowest price one. I'm not a fan of the PE. As stated above it will scratch and you have to pay a little bit more attention to making sure it doesn't get damaged. Regardless, matte black, PE, or polished white, it's all the same instrument underneath. I hope you get yours soon!!
Posted By: foxy.au Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 10/01/20 02:39 AM
Originally Posted by GreatShowmanChopin
I'm right there with ya, foxy. I'm still watching old CLP-6xx and CLP-7xx reviews ad nauseam to tide me over until i get my 785. It's agony! haha I've also been trying to figure out which tablet to get to pair it with for Bluetooth apps and all that.

I went with the matte black as my first choice and it just happened to be the lowest price one. I'm not a fan of the PE. As stated above it will scratch and you have to pay a little bit more attention to making sure it doesn't get damaged. Regardless, matte black, PE, or polished white, it's all the same instrument underneath. I hope you get yours soon!!

GreatShowmanChopin! Thanks for the reply! I've been doing EXACTLY the same as you, hitting youtube and watching all the CLP-6xx and CLP-7xx videos as well. Even one's not in English and relying on youtube auto-translate! Yes, I've been that desperate for content! Every morning, I do a google / youtube search on CLP 785 - hoping for some new content! ;-)

Awesome to hear that you went the matte black option. I think from a practical perspective it's the 'right' choice - I actually really like the polished white as well, that was $1,700 more than the matte. Definitely out of my price range.

I hope you get yours soon as well my friend! Do you have an ETA?

This will be my first digital piano - so excited. Plus my wife is counting down the days as well. I'm 50 next year and my mrs, 52. Definitely something that we can do together.

I've been 'playing' for years, but have never really learnt to read music ( until now - doing the pianote.com thingy ) which has been great. However, my Axiom 61 keyboard is a bugger to play. Very sharp edges on the keys and the weighting is not the best. So a massive leap for me.

My playing is 'ok' i suppose. But effectively I'm starting at the beginning.

This was my attempt last year ( with no sustain pedal ) of Hallelujah by Leonard Cohen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpAT314v1Gs

and one of the pianote song's that i learned the Cheshire Cat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILq8lPe2taQ

As you can see mate, I've got a LONG way to go!!!!

The future is bright! Bring on the music!
Foxy.
Posted By: jerha202 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 10/01/20 09:33 AM
Originally Posted by su12
Just tried on 785 and the A4 played alone on CFX sounds fine.

However, I do notice a strange resonance when I play a B flat maj 7th chord on CFX with the speakers, with volume set above 50%. Probably coming from the semitone clash of the A and B flat.

I wonder if the speaker differences play a role - I think the speaker system is different than 745 (785 has spruce come speaker? Someone feel free to correct me).

In any case I've been using the Bosendorfer sample more, and I'm not always playing this semitone, so it does not bother me much. Unfortunate though...
Ok thanks for checking! I tried playing a Bb-maj7 but it only sounds bad for me if voiced with that A4.

The speakers are clearly much better on your 785 than on my 735, so maybe that explains it, but it's weird it affects only one note. So I'm clueless. I'll go back to the store and try out their 735 and see if I can hear the same. Maybe I could get used to it, but for now it really takes the joy out of playing for me, so I want to get to the bottom of this.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 10/01/20 10:15 AM
‘Every morning I do a google/youtube search on CLP-785 hoping for some new content.....’


Welcome to the club, foxy.au!

The problem will be leaving it (good luck with that, but you’re most certainly stuck with us forever). laugh
Posted By: Daniel van Veen Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 10/01/20 01:08 PM
Originally Posted by jerha202
I got my CLP-735 today, and it sounds good but... did anyone notice an unpleasant resonance when playing the A4 key of the CFX, or is it only me? At first I thought it was the speakers or some mechanical resonance, but it's really only that note and the CFX - the Bösendorfer and the other instruments sound perfectly fine. So now I'm thinking it's in the sound sample.

Would it be possible to somehow record this?

I remember once where I heard a ringing sound when playing certain notes, it turned out to be a particular object on or close by the piano (forgot what it exactly was) that resonated with the sound of the piano.
Make sure you have removed everything attached to the piano and move it a bit away from the wall(s).
If you test with headphones, set the Binaural setting to OFF, otherwise you are using a completely different sampleset.
Posted By: jerha202 Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 10/01/20 05:45 PM
Originally Posted by Daniel van Veen
Originally Posted by jerha202
I got my CLP-735 today, and it sounds good but... did anyone notice an unpleasant resonance when playing the A4 key of the CFX, or is it only me? At first I thought it was the speakers or some mechanical resonance, but it's really only that note and the CFX - the Bösendorfer and the other instruments sound perfectly fine. So now I'm thinking it's in the sound sample.

Would it be possible to somehow record this?

I remember once where I heard a ringing sound when playing certain notes, it turned out to be a particular object on or close by the piano (forgot what it exactly was) that resonated with the sound of the piano.
Make sure you have removed everything attached to the piano and move it a bit away from the wall(s).
If you test with headphones, set the Binaural setting to OFF, otherwise you are using a completely different sampleset.
This post took me much closer to a resolution, thanks a lot!

The resonance is NOT there with headphones and binaural set to Off, so I guess it's not in the sample after all. I tried connecting a separate pair of speakers with the Aux output, and the resonance is not there either. And when I do use the piano's built in speakers, it actually gets better when I stand up! I have nothing standing on or attached to the piano. I tried moving it around in the room, removing the panel and tightening or loosening some screws, but no noticeable difference. I'm guessing the resonance comes from the piano case itself, but I'm wondering if there is something wrong with my piano that can be fixed, or if it's just the way it is because I got the "cheap" model.
Originally Posted by foxy.au
Originally Posted by GreatShowmanChopin
I'm right there with ya, foxy. I'm still watching old CLP-6xx and CLP-7xx reviews ad nauseam to tide me over until i get my 785. It's agony! haha I've also been trying to figure out which tablet to get to pair it with for Bluetooth apps and all that.

I went with the matte black as my first choice and it just happened to be the lowest price one. I'm not a fan of the PE. As stated above it will scratch and you have to pay a little bit more attention to making sure it doesn't get damaged. Regardless, matte black, PE, or polished white, it's all the same instrument underneath. I hope you get yours soon!!

GreatShowmanChopin! Thanks for the reply! I've been doing EXACTLY the same as you, hitting youtube and watching all the CLP-6xx and CLP-7xx videos as well. Even one's not in English and relying on youtube auto-translate! Yes, I've been that desperate for content! Every morning, I do a google / youtube search on CLP 785 - hoping for some new content! ;-)

I think you and I are the same person! I'll do my daily YouTube/Google search and check this thread for new content. I've also watched German and Japanese videos on the 7xx series and relying on YouTube to auto-translate it so I can understand at least some of what's going on. I've been impressed with the auto-translate feature. It's pretty great! I just need Tony from Bonners to put up his 785 demonstration video already! lol

It's my first digital piano as well and I'm very excited. No firm ETA, just the Oct/Nov date everybody else is getting I think.

I'd encourage you to keep on practicing, but I assume as soon as you get your piano you won't STOP playing. haha Enjoy!
Posted By: foxy.au Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 10/02/20 12:33 AM
Originally Posted by Pete14
‘Every morning I do a google/youtube search on CLP-785 hoping for some new content.....’

Welcome to the club, foxy.au!

The problem will be leaving it (good luck with that, but you’re most certainly stuck with us forever). laugh

G'day Pete! :-)

Thanks for the warm welcome my friend! Yes, you've got me for good! hahaha - I'm enjoying reading everyone's comments so far!
Posted By: foxy.au Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 10/02/20 12:39 AM
Originally Posted by GreatShowmanChopin
I think you and I are the same person! I'll do my daily YouTube/Google search and check this thread for new content. I've also watched German and Japanese videos on the 7xx series and relying on YouTube to auto-translate it so I can understand at least some of what's going on. I've been impressed with the auto-translate feature. It's pretty great! I just need Tony from Bonners to put up his 785 demonstration video already! lol

It's my first digital piano as well and I'm very excited. No firm ETA, just the Oct/Nov date everybody else is getting I think.

I'd encourage you to keep on practicing, but I assume as soon as you get your piano you won't STOP playing. haha Enjoy!

Hahahaha - It does seem we're peas in a pod hey? :-) I checked this morning my friend, alas - no new youtube videos. lol. So back I go to looking at older 685 reviews.

Yes, it would be great for Tony from Bonners to do a deep-dive into the product.

I had the pleasure last year of playing on the 685 in Melbourne, Australia - I did indeed find the key action heavy(ish) - compared to, at the time trying the Roland. As you know I'm a beginner pianist but felt I could get more emotion out of the Yamaha.


The sound of the Yamaha 685 I really LOVED as well compared to the other units I tried.

Fingers crossed I've made the right decision - Never have I spent soooooo much money on a product that I haven't tried before. Eeeekkk! I suppose I'll know soon enough!

So excited that this is your first digital piano as well. When growing up we had an upright that my mother and sister played. I just dicked around on it, but never put any effort into it. Sigh. However, never too late! :-)

I've got a day off work today, so will get some practice on the old Axiom keyboard - arrgghh! ;-)

Take care.
Foxy.
Posted By: Ronaldo777uk Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 10/02/20 06:26 PM
New Yamaha videos come out for the GP’s 10 hours ago..

795gp..

https://youtu.be/1xE4UodMLS8

And 765gp..

https://youtu.be/nLjBXwX7nqY

Hopefully that means the 795 will be released soon.
Posted By: Tozen Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 10/02/20 09:40 PM
An excellent 735 overview video just got released. It's all line-out samples, and it sounds great. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCw5LTYdiro
Posted By: foxy.au Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 10/03/20 02:52 AM
Originally Posted by Tozen
An excellent 735 overview video just got released. It's all line-out samples, and it sounds great. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCw5LTYdiro

Thanks for that mate. I really enjoyed getting a greater explanation and demonstration of the rhythm functionality of the piano. Will make playing that much more interesting :-)

Take care.
Foxy.
Posted By: mareg Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 10/06/20 01:52 PM
New comparison between 735 and 745.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZnmiWjgnHI
Posted By: foxy.au Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 10/06/20 11:04 PM
Originally Posted by mareg
New comparison between 735 and 745.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZnmiWjgnHI

Thanks for that Mareg! Always nice to see and hear new content about the 700 series :-)

The wait continues! hahaha.
Foxy.
Posted By: Daniel van Veen Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 10/07/20 12:01 PM
It surprises me how difficult it is to hear a difference between the 735 and 745 when recorded. I know that if you play them in person, you'll notice it straight away. It is just that somehow the recording makes them all sound the same way (and clearly distinguishable from an acoustic).
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 10/07/20 12:08 PM
Originally Posted by Daniel van Veen
It surprises me how difficult it is to hear a difference between the 735 and 745 when recorded. I know that if you play them in person, you'll notice it straight away. It is just that somehow the recording makes them all sound the same way (and clearly distinguishable from an acoustic).

The line output is the same in the 735/745/765gp/775
Posted By: Daniel van Veen Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 10/07/20 01:57 PM
Originally Posted by Otavio
Originally Posted by Daniel van Veen
It surprises me how difficult it is to hear a difference between the 735 and 745 when recorded. I know that if you play them in person, you'll notice it straight away. It is just that somehow the recording makes them all sound the same way (and clearly distinguishable from an acoustic).

The line output is the same in the 735/745/765gp/775

I know, but I was referring to this comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZnmiWjgnHI, which is a recording of the actual speaker output of both models.
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 10/08/20 12:28 AM
Originally Posted by Otavio
The line output is the same in the 735/745/765gp/775

Are you sure?

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: ebonykawai Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 10/08/20 05:35 PM
Great to see new videos!
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 10/08/20 08:02 PM
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by Otavio
The line output is the same in the 735/745/765gp/775

Are you sure?

Kind regards,
James
x


I believe so, James!
From what i read about it in this forum, just the 785/795gp has different samples.

Off course, we only can ensure that by doing a technical test (all CLPs playing the same midi file with respective wave files output)
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 10/09/20 08:35 AM
Originally Posted by Otavio
I believe so, James!
From what i read about it in this forum, just the 785/795gp has different samples.

Hmm...can you provide a link, please? wink

Cheers,
James
x
Posted By: Otavio Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 10/09/20 01:59 PM
Here, James:

Originally Posted by 9190
Well, I managed to get more information from them. Not too impressed though. But at least some more specific information. Here's what they answered:

"<…> Starting from CLP-990 (2001), the flagship models had 5 layers of samples, and the lower models had 4 layers. The new CLP‑700 series, CLP‑785/795GP have 6 layers of samples for the Yamaha CFX tone and 5 layers for the Bosendorfer Imperial tone, while the CLP‑735/745/775/765GP models have 5 layers of samples for CFX and 4 for Bosendorfer".
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 10/09/20 02:03 PM
Sounds like we need to resurrect the DPBSD...
Posted By: Pianopaige Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 10/10/20 05:28 AM
This 700 series is seriously impressive. The Bosendorfer sounds very authentic. Really wasn’t impressed with the Bosie voice in the 600 series. (A big deal breaker for me). But this sounds like I expected the 600 series to sound.
I love that they’ve added an EQ too, very handy.
The traditional pianos are a beautiful addition for historical context of so many classical pieces.

As for the all the grumbles about the screen on the cheekblock at the start of this thread. Personally couldn’t care what it’s made of, as long as it doesn’t overheat easily or crap out after three years.

I’m in the market for a good digital piano for quiet practice at night, think I’ve found it. Can’t wait to play one. Nicely done Yamaha!
Posted By: foxy.au Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 10/10/20 10:00 PM
New Video

Rimmer's Music discusses binaural sampling on the Yamaha 700 Series
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onBSc3JuZMc

Cheers
Foxy.
Posted By: kpuk Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 10/11/20 11:05 AM
Information on the pricing and availability of the clp785 model is clearly available as referenced by several contributors to this thread. However, I cannot find any information anywhere on line on pricing and availability here in the UK, or indeed the rest of Europe. Does anyone have this information?
Thanks in advance (hopefully!!).
Posted By: Burkey Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 10/12/20 12:57 AM
Originally Posted by kpuk
I cannot find any information anywhere on line on pricing and availability here in the UK, or indeed the rest of Europe. Does anyone have this information?
https://musicsquare.co.uk/219885_Ya...o-cyfrowe-kolor-black-walnut-czarny.html

Try calling Music Square, or alternatively - directly call/contact the Yamaha distributor:
https://member.europe.yamaha.com/contact
Posted By: kpuk Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 10/12/20 10:28 AM
Many thanks for the information Burkey. The price at £5,930 comes as a bit of a shock, especially as I prefer polished ebony which will take it way over £6,000. I just hope for some significant discounts when it becomes more widely available in the UK.
Thanks again. Your efforts are much appreciated.
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 10/12/20 10:43 AM
Yes, we do need some objective testing on all of these claims!
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Sounds like we need to resurrect the DPBSD...
Are you volunteering?
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 10/12/20 10:57 AM
@kpuk: Keep in mind that the asking price is not the selling price.
Originally Posted by kpuk
The price at £5,930 comes as a bit of a shock, especially as I prefer polished ebony which will take it way over £6,000. I just hope for some significant discounts when it becomes more widely available in the UK.
Discounts don't "become available". Make your own discount. Make an offer!

BTW, that asking price of £5,930 is equivalent to $7719 USD. There's no way any CLP would sell for that much over here in America. That price will get you an N1X.

Here are some prices from the prices paid thread for CLP685 models. The 785 might be a bit higher, but it's in the same market tier, so it won't be much higher ...
Code
US		CLP685		Dec-2017	$4900

Germany		CLP685PE	Dec-2017	3822 EUR	=$4663 USD
Netherlands	CLP685PE	Feb-2020	3769 EUR	=$4100 USD

It's clear to me that the £5,930 asking price is so far beyond ridiculous that I'd ignore it. Something under £4,000 would be reasonable.
If the dealer won't play, neither would I. (Ask him what he's smoking!) smile
Posted By: kpuk Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 10/12/20 11:59 AM
Yes MacMacMac. You have expressed my thoughts very succinctly. The CLP 775 in polished ebony is currently available at a range of discounted prices in the UK, the best being around £3,300, so I am confident that nobody with more than one brain cell will pay an additional £2,650 to upgrade to the 785.
I just have to be patient and wait for a more widespread availability on the CLP 785 here in the UK.
Posted By: QuasiUnaFantasia Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 10/12/20 01:32 PM
I don't know whether this is old news, but there are sound samples available for the CLP 775 from Bauer Music in Germany:

CLP-775 sound samples
Posted By: Piligrim Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 10/12/20 02:15 PM
Originally Posted by JackQ89
How long is the keys on the CLP 745? and how long for the 775/785?
Originally Posted by Burkey
I believe the 775/785 key length (to pivot point) remain the same as the 675/685, which is about 26 cm.
The 745 'feels like' about 22 cm (it's definitely in the 21 to 24 range) - I'll measure it when it arrives in a couple of months.
Definitely, NWX keys are shorter than GrandTouch-S ones.
CLP-645 (NWX):
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
CLP-745 (GrandTouch-S):
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Posted By: vagfilm Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 10/12/20 03:42 PM
Great photos. But if I remember correctly from another thread, the official or almost official info from yamaha stated that grand touch S differs from NWX in the pivot length of the black keys only (they are now staggered and further back from the white's pivots).
Posted By: Daniel van Veen Re: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-700 Series - 10/13/20 07:27 AM
Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
I don't know whether this is old news, but there are sound samples available for the CLP 775 from Bauer Music in Germany:

CLP-775 sound samples

I did not see this link before, thanks a lot! The bösendorfer sounds great.
For the CLP-735, CLP-745 they list the same set of sample songs - did they just copy/paste or are they really recorded on the respective models? They should sound the same, anyway, right...