I'm going to play-test a Kawai ES-110 in 2 days (store is open finally). I own a Kawai MP-11. What are the ES-110's piano samples? Are they the same as my MP-11? If not, better or worse? Thanks.

The 11 has Harmonic Imaging XL, the 110 has Harmonic Imsging. The ES8 has XL. I have read there is a significant difference in the “interpretation “ of the samples. Try the 8!

The piano sound in the ES110 while probably OK for live playing isn't anything particularly good, to put it mildly. Audibly worse than the MP11. It's an entry-level piano after all, using 4 generations older sound engine:

1. Harmonic Imaging
2. Progressive Harmonic Imaging
3. Ultra Progressive Harmonic Imaging
4. Harmonic Imaging XL
5. SK-EX Rendering (current)

I wouldn't bother at all, unless you're after lightweight and portable instrument for gigging.

I think the ES110 is okay - more expressive than you might imagine with the older sound engine. I don't see that as much of a limitation.

The sample is of course the older EX concert grand (as also featured in the MP11). I'm not a fan because to my ears it has a metallic, rasping unrefinement and there's some significant unevenness between notes. But as an expressive instrument I think it's fine. The newer SK-EX sample (ES8, MP11SE etc) is miles better but of course you don't get than in the ES110 (or MP11).

But if you like the older EX sample I think the ES110 is very competitive in that entry level class. Its action is probably a bit better than the Yamaha P125's and a bit more agile than the Roland FP-30 (which although quite good, is a tad sluggish feeling to me).

I'll try the 8 if the store has it. But I need a lightweight board. I have to move it out of the house and into the yard to play. I think the 8 is 48 pounds to the 110's 26. If I get the 110, it's instead of or in addition to the Casio PXS-3000 that I've had for 2 weeks (and can still return).

I have the 11 (3000 miles away these days), so I can deal with that. If I get the 110, it's for the action; the 11's action is perfect for me. Thank everybody for confirming this.

Have you considered Roland FP10? I decided I didn’t like the action, but we differ on this subject. You might.

Action and weight are the criteria here; daily schlepping in and out of the house to the yard to play.

Not yet. My choices are having AMS mail to me. I do currently have the Casio PXS-3000 from them for another 3 weeks on trial. A local piano store is open and carries the Kawai, but Guitar Center and Sam Ash (who MAY have the Roland) are carry-out only still. Ideally, I would try all of these in person, but it's Covid-time (unless you're rioting, quite the scene here in LA the last 2 nights...).

Isn't the FP-10 a "tough" action? I'm looking for a lighter action. My MP11 is great in that respect (3000 miles away...). The Casio PXS-3000 checks all the boxes for me except the action...

I read mention of the ES110 sounding raspy. That could be the dumb speakerEQ setting it ships with . Turn that off for a smoother fuller clean tone and save it. That’s one of the first things I did when I got mine. It improves the sound.

The first four pianos are
Concert Grand 1
Concert Grand 2
Studio Grand 1
Studio Grand 2

I use Studio Grand 2 for single note jazz soloing. It is more legato, less thumpy, so it does a better job for getting trumpet like legato single note lines when soloing. It’s also less stereo spread than Concert Grand 1 and has better clarity.

There is a great clean tone Fender Rhodes hidden under the hood. But it takes some edits to get to it.

Previously I had the Casio PX-S3000 for 10 months alongside my PX360. I bought the ES110 and played it side by side with my PXS3000 for 10 days. The ES110 won easily, in my judgement, by having a much more playable action and piano tone. I also prefer it’s hidden Rhodes. I also spent two different days at a piano dealer comparing the ES110 to the P125 and the FP30.

PHA 4 has the longer pivot, so they're nicer feeling towards the top of the key vs es110,sx1000

But the repetition speed is a bit more difficult to nail down, it has a much heavier downstroke and I think the triple sensor (in this case) actually convolutes(binds up) the input if you don't nail the keystrike exactly after it resets.

----> I doubt I'll be able to do that in the store tomorrow, unless the owner knows how to do that. But, if it's the identical sample to my MP-11, I already know what it is. I would not deem it "raspy." A little "Static" and"one dimensional,"however. Quite acceptable in any event.


-----> since saxophone is my main axe, I play piano with single note lines in mind. The Casio 3000 isn't great for that.


----- > if I buy the 110, I hope you'll post how to get to it. I'll assume that it's there under the hood for now.


----- > I hope to do that as well.



-----> What's your take on those?

Thanks.....

It's very easy to do:

While holding the Function button, simply press the A#6 key on the keyboard, that will turn off the dreaded "Speaker EQ"

"I also spent two different days at a piano dealer comparing the ES110 to the P125 and the FP30.

-----> What's your take on those? "

I reached the same conclusion as I did with the Cassio PX-S3000, the ES110 won for having a more playable action and for piano and Rhodes tone.

The ES110 comes with a quick reference guide for all its edits. It is a menu printed on both sides of a heavy-duty glossy single sheet of paper. Here are both sides of the menu.

I have owned all of the original FPs (FP2, FP3, FP4, FP60) and since my FP4 days Roland started making the actions “heavy”. I find them sluggish now for fast single note bop playing. I think they made them heavier now days to make them more durable , especially for when a rock player gets one

Have quality headphones with you for engine comparison, if you intend to use it with headphones or external speakers. Over built-in speakers, the speaker (limited) quality tends to become the most obvious difference. The CN39 sounded much better to me than the ES8 side-by-side, though the latter has a better engine in the specs (presumably longer samples).

I intended to get myself a lightweight slab, but was disappointed by all when I got to test them. The ES110 seemed the best of the bunch though.

----- > I was able to play the ES110 for all of 3 minutes today until the rioters showed up and they threw everybody out (Sam Ash West Hollywood). Well, yeah, as to the action and tone. It felt like my MP11 and the piano sound was great. No tweaking; I'll do that tomorrow, including function + Bb6.* Fast soloing on "Donna Lee" was no problem; this action is far more conducive to my style of playing than the Casio 3000. I just wish this thing had audio in!

-----> I then went across the street to Guitar Center and waited in line for 30 minutes to try out the Casio 560, but they abruptly closed due to new, earlier city-wide curfew. It apparently has the same, Casio-wide, pre-1000/3000 keyboard and piano sample that my PX-5S has. Hopefuly not the latter. Did you try this one?

* I assume your "A#" was not a typo. It's all Bb to me, but then again, I'm as tenor saxophonist, and that's in Bb....

----- > I was able to play the ES110 for all of 3 minutes today until the rioters showed up and they threw everybody out (Sam Ash West Hollywood). Well, yeah, as to the action and tone. It felt like my MP11 and the piano sound was great. No tweaking; I'll do that tomorrow, including function + Bb6.* Fast soloing on "Donna Lee" was no problem; this action is far more conducive to my style of playing than the Casio 3000. I just wish this thing had audio in!

-----> I then went across the street to Guitar Center and waited in line for 30 minutes to try out the Casio 560, but they abruptly closed due to new, earlier city-wide curfew. It apparently has the same, Casio-wide, pre-1000/3000 keyboard and piano sample that my PX-5S has. Hopefuly not the latter. Did you try this one?

* I assume your "A#" was not a typo. It's all Bb to me, but then again, I'm as tenor saxophonist, and that's in Bb....

-----> Round #2 tomorrow, hopefully not truncated by rioters. Sam Ash has the ES-8 too, but it's way too heavy (pounds) for my purposes. I'll play it though, and this time I'll bring my AKG 271 Mk 2 cans....

I called it A#6 because that's what they call it on the Kawai quick reference guide. The quick reference guide is a printed menu page that shows all the function edits across an illustration of the 88 keys. It's easy. The piano dealer I go to has the menu page laying on top of the keyboard so customers can try the various edits.
I used to own the PX 360 (560) for three years, then I replaced it with the PX-S3000 for 10 months (had them side by side for a month, much like I eventually had the ES110 side by side with the PX-S3000). The result, I recommend the ES110.

It's not hard to get to the hidden Rhodes (2 edits required). I can send you a scan of the one-page quick reference guide. Message me

Keyboard and sound wise, what's your take on the 560? It certainly has a lot going for it overall.


-----> Sent you a PM, I'm going back to the store tomorrow at about 2 pm Pacific Daylight Time, and it would be great to access it.

It's on the wall, Guitar Center style at Sam Ash, so hopefully they will let me put it on a table to check out the speakers that way.

The PX-360 was fine live, but the acoustic piano sounds pretty percussive and digital for home practice. The action is noisy, not that I mind but my wife did. The action had a longer pivot than the 3000 and thus was less fatiguing to play. I prefer the action and samples in the ES110, it's easier to play and sounds more like a sampled piano. In the less than 27 weight category, nothing beats it in my experience.

Page 61 and 62 of the manual also has photos of the quick reference menu card that comes separately with the manual:

https://www.kawai-global.com/data/manuals/ES110_EN_R103.pdf

-----> My PX-5S action was so noisy that they house members told me to stop playing at 11 pm (with headphones). The 3000 is at least quieter. I'm back in the same house (LA), PX-5S and MP11 = 3000 miles to the East. AFAIK, the 360/560 are the same action and piano as the PX-5S, so I concur as to live vs. home practice (which is all I'm doing right now).

-----> I should be able to play the 110 for at least an hour straight tomorrow, will report fatigue / no fatigue.

-----> Did you use / do you miss the added functionality of the 360 over the 110?

To unlock the hidden clean tone vintage Fender Rhodes suitcase patch in the Kawai ES110:

Press the E.Piano/Organ button to select E.Piano 1
Press and hold the E.Piano/Organ button and then press the A#4 key
Press and hold the E.Piano/Organ button and then press the G#6 key

You know have a well behaved clean tone Fender Rhodes, no more wild jumpiness or spaced out effects.

To save as a Registration (so you don't have to do it every time you power on)
Press the Registration button.
Press the Lesson or Sound buttons to select the desired registration location

I also recommend saving the 4th default piano as a registration, it's the "Studio Grand 2", I use it for single note trumpet style jazz soloing, it's smoother, less thumpy and has better clarity.
My other two personal registrations are Concert Grand 1 and Vibes/E.Bass Split

Daily schlepping +1 :-) .... sweet ;-).

Galuwen

-----> You are moving the 110 each day?

Thanks for posting! I'll it tomorrow.

Does the "virtual technician" allow any tweaking of bark, bell and the like?

No. This edit turns those extreme barking and dinging levels way down so that it behaves like a vintage clean tone suitcase jazz style Rhodes, not like some odd hyped dyno fusion spaced-out e.Piano the way Kawi set it up as their weird default setting.

-----> Ah, too much bark / bell to start! Hopefully I can check this out tomorrow...

I played the FP30 at Guitar Center today. I did not like the action at all. Dull. Heavy.

I remember when I owned an ES7 and I tested the FP30 and didn't like it because it felt heavy. I've recently tested it again (after owning the N1X) and found it very enjoyable action. I guess RH and GF Kawai actions are light feeling which isn't a bad thing. However if you like heavier actions (and I think some people have mentioned that the NV10 feels even slightly heavier than N1X), the FP30 is a good entry-level action.

I don't know how you like the Studio Grand 2 patch on the ES110... The Studio Grand 2 is based on the Concert Grand 2 sound that is already a low quality piano patch (I think it's the oldest piano patch from Kawai digital pianos, something made more than 15 years ago, and it sounds very 'synth-like' in the middle of the keyboard), but the "Studio Grand 2" sounds even more like an electric piano, with that overbright sound timbre... To me, the ES110, as a keyboard to play solo piano pieces, is usable only with the Concert Grand 1 piano patch and its mellow variant.
The Concert Grand 1 of the ES110 corresponds to the EX piano patch that you can choose on many other Kawai DPs. This EX piano patch was the main piano patch of Kawai DPs for many many years but it is very far from perfection: for example there is the F3 note that is not well sampled compared to the others, or maybe the original acoustic EX piano had a not well regulated F3 note... You feel it has less sustain compared to the previous and the following notes, and it sounds a little strange, like it was muted a little.
Another defect of the EX piano patch is that it's not much detailed in the low range of velocities and you feel it's a little artificial sounding in the middle part of the keyboard.

But... I have to say that the EX is a very dynamic sound patch, so you feel you can play from ppp to fff and the instrument responds well without too much effort (I cannot say this is true for the SK-EX piano patch too), and this is very nice to learn classical piano pieces.
In good hands, the EX piano patch + some reverb sounds good enough with most classical pieces and jazz too. The "Concert Grand 2" and even more the "Studio Grand 2" of the ES110 to me are just some vintage digital piano sounds, maybe good for pop or in a mix, but not much for solo playing.

I know all that. I am not after the perfect sound, I am after the best musical behavior. Do you realize there can be a difference between those two things? The beauty of a recorded note and how that note behaves when put into actual play can be different. I am not concerned with subtle sampling imperfections.
Concert Grand 1 has a thumpy accent quality in the way the initial attack is accented. It comes out percussive in bebop playing. With an amp pointed at me head it's distracting. Play a trumpet like bebop line and each note getas a subtle accent and less flow of legato compared to Studio Grand 2. It is also stereo wide. I use Studio Grand 2 for single note jazz soloing. It is more legato, less thumpy, so it does a better job for getting trumpet-like legato single note lines when soloing, especially amplified live in various rooms. It’s also less stereo spread than Concert Grand 1 and has better clarity live amplified. Tone is secondary, ppp-fff is not the primary concern here, it's about the notes I play and how the line flows. It is more effortless, more bebop horn like with Studio Grand 2. Regardless of classical "tone" sampling beauty. Sure I wish it was even better, fuller in detail, warmer, etc, but it is what it is, and it flows better in the bebop jazz horn line style than CG1

@rintincop: if you found a particular musical scenario where the "Studio Grand 2" in the ES110 is good sounding, that's good for you. I was just saying that as a piano patch sound for piano solo playing IMHO it is very poor for today standards.

You do know what effortless, trumpet-like flowing bebop single note phrasing is, right? It's not about the most advanced beautiful sampling. I am not suggesting in any way that the Studio Grand 2 would win any Piano beauty contest. I am trying to explain that it functions, or behaves more musically for soloing single note lines than the Concert Grand 1. No thump-thump of clack-clack resulting from over-pronounced hammer strike samples like on some of the other famous brands did to me (see my history of ownership below). That hard attack drives me nuts when an amp is next to me on stage.

I have played professionaly since 1975 and owned each of the following digital piano models:
Roland MKS 20 Piano Module (1986)
Roland P-330 Piano Module
Roland RD-200
Roland MKS60
Kurzweil P2000 Piano Module
Kurzweill MicroPiano module
Fatar 76 controller for the above modules
Yama P120
Yamaha P250
Yamaha P90
Technics SX-P50 (anyone remember this one?)
Roland FP2
Roland FP3
Kawai ES4
Roland FP4
Roland FP4F
Roland FP50
Casio PX360
Casio PX-S3000
Kawai ES110 (the best so far)

Before these I used a Wurlitzer electric piano or a Fender Rhodes.

I forgot about my old Kurzweil PC2X, there have been so many digital pianos in my life, let alone all the dreadful synths.

@rintincop: you don't need to convince me that you like the "Studio Grand 2" piano patch more than the other ones. To me it sounds almost like an electric piano and I would never play classical music with that artificial synthetic sound similar to piano synths from the '90, even if it has good playability. To each his own...

P.S.: have you tried the SK-EX piano patch on recent Kawai DPs?

Tell that to Coldplay for I believe that is Chris Martin's piano sound of choice, or something based on that ancient sample. But I agree within you; it's awful!

In fact it's so old and idiosyncratic that I suppose you could call it a 'legacy' sound.

AFAIK he used that ancient stage piano (the Kawai MP9000) in its tours from 2001 to 2003. I don't know if he still uses it, but from his last videos I see he plays often on an acoustic grand piano.Probably in the first years of the 2000s it was considered a nice piano sound for pop music. Today there is so much better... But I have to say that the first 2 octaves of that old piano patch still sound very nice and realistic enough to me. Unfortunately, all the other octaves sound too vintage-piano-synth for my tastes.

I was able to play an ES-110 today at Sam Ash Hollywood; the rioters had moved down the street.

It sounded and felt great. The above complaints regarding sampling were not present, but then again I was at a store. I assume it was set at the main piano sound. It is similar (if not identical) to my MP-11 main piano sound.

The action is conducive to be-bop lines. The Casio PXS-3000 is much less so. Unlike Rintincop, I'm after SAXOPHONE type (not trumpet) single note solo lines. That's because I'm a saxophone player...... If I were after trumpet lines, I'd channel Freddie Hubbard.

Also worth mentioning is that the action's fulcrum allowed Jazz voicings in the left hand. These are more difficult on the Casio 3000, especially for those of use with really long fingers (C to G easily with notes in between...).