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Posted By: FennerMachine What stage piano? - 04/04/20 11:44 AM
I want a better all-round stage piano.
I do most of my piano playing and practice at home on an acoustic grand piano.
But I need a good stage piano for small meet-ups with other amateurs (a few pros too).
Also fun to play with other sounds, and better for neighbours when doing repetitive practice.

I currently have a Roland FP-90 and a Bluthner Pro 88.
Both have their pros and cons.

My requirements:
Built-in speakers, good enough for a small venue.
Good piano sounds, other sounds not so important, but good organ, string & electric piano would be nice.
Weighted key action.

Currently two contenders after reading reviews and watching videos. I will try them when I have the chance. But what are your thoughts and suggestions?

Korg SV2s
Looks good. Key action should be acceptable. Lots of good sounds.
Speakers might not be loud enough.

Dexibell P7
Speaker system seems very good. Good sounds. Cheaper than Korg SV2.
Key action might not be acceptable.

I have owned or tried the following with what I like or don’t like:

Roland FP-90
Great key action. Sounds artificial. Not quite loud enough.

Bluthner Pro 88
Sound is very good. Loud enough. Key action awkward and ‘bouncy’, not good.

Yamaha P255 & P515
Sounds good. Key action good but not quite right, too heavy. Not quite loud enough.

Nord various models
Sound is good. Key actions OK. Needs speakers.

Kawai
Tried a long time ago. Didn’t like the key actions.


Any suggestions and advice welcome.
Posted By: clothearednincompo Re: What stage piano? - 04/04/20 12:32 PM
Roland FP-60?
Kawai ES-8?
Posted By: Pete14 Re: What stage piano? - 04/04/20 12:34 PM
P515! grin
Posted By: Iaroslav Vasiliev Re: What stage piano? - 04/04/20 12:50 PM
Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
Kawai ES-8

+1
Posted By: Pete14 Re: What stage piano? - 04/04/20 12:55 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
P515! grin

+1
Posted By: terminaldegree Re: What stage piano? - 04/04/20 01:23 PM
I don’t think this is solvable, within your parameters, as you’ve already tried the usual suspects, and some less than usual ones. As a fellow PRO-88 owner I do agree the amp and speakers are really powerful on that rig, though it has its quirks.
Posted By: musicman100 Re: What stage piano? - 04/04/20 02:35 PM
Hi I had the kawai es7 but found it was to big to carry around for gigs so got the es110 which had a good sound but speakers not that loud.
I know use a Dexibell P7 which I think ( and a lot of people who have heard it) has a good piano sound. The speakers are very powerful . For example i play in a school hall with about 40 person choir and bass and electric guitar using their own amps but I only use the built in speakers and are loud enough.

With regard to the keyboard I find it fine and respond very well to expression but i have been playing for 45 years and have played so many differnt pianos and keyboard I just get used to the one I am playing at the time.

If you need any further information about the dexibell let me know.

Thanks
Posted By: FennerMachine Re: What stage piano? - 04/04/20 03:01 PM
Thanks for replies so far.

Thanks musicman100.

Regarding key actions:
Some are heavier toward the back of the keys or simply too heavy.
Others are too light and bouncy so difficult to control dynamics.
How are the Dexibell P7 keys regarding weight and control?
Are the keys fairly even front to back?
Posted By: PianoMan51 Re: What stage piano? - 04/04/20 05:14 PM
I’m going to try change your mind about the built in speakers. Honestly, stage pianos don’t have them. And the reason is purely practical.

Let’s say you have a friend with an acoustic guitar or flute, or violin. You play in each other’s living rooms for each other. Built in speakers work great if you stick to acoustic piano patches. Even if you bring in a handful of listeners.

But for everything else the built in speakers fail.

- After 10 minutes the listeners start to get restless, and start to talk. And then share jokes, and one loud person starts to laugh uproariously. And others join in the fun. You can’t compete volume wise.

- You want to split the keyboard and play left hand bass. The built in speakers won’t support that.

- Your friend invites a drummer. You’re screwed.

- You want to play a coffee house or quiet restaurant. It might work until the place starts to fill, and then you’re screwed.

And when you finally realize why stage pianos don’t have speakers, you’ll realize that in order to buy a piano with speakers you limited your choices.
Posted By: Doug M. Re: What stage piano? - 04/04/20 05:52 PM
Originally Posted by FennerMachine
I want a better all-round stage piano.
I do most of my piano playing and practice at home on an acoustic grand piano.
But I need a good stage piano for small meet-ups with other amateurs (a few pros too).
Also fun to play with other sounds, and better for neighbours when doing repetitive practice.

I currently have a Roland FP-90 and a Bluthner Pro 88.
Both have their pros and cons.

My requirements:
Built-in speakers, good enough for a small venue.
Good piano sounds, other sounds not so important, but good organ, string & electric piano would be nice.
Weighted key action.

Currently two contenders after reading reviews and watching videos. I will try them when I have the chance. But what are your thoughts and suggestions?

Korg SV2s
Looks good. Key action should be acceptable. Lots of good sounds.
Speakers might not be loud enough.

Dexibell P7
Speaker system seems very good. Good sounds. Cheaper than Korg SV2.
Key action might not be acceptable.

I have owned or tried the following with what I like or don’t like:

Roland FP-90
Great key action. Sounds artificial. Not quite loud enough.

Bluthner Pro 88
Sound is very good. Loud enough. Key action awkward and ‘bouncy’, not good.

Yamaha P255 & P515
Sounds good. Key action good but not quite right, too heavy. Not quite loud enough.

Nord various models
Sound is good. Key actions OK. Needs speakers.

Kawai
Tried a long time ago. Didn’t like the key actions.


Any suggestions and advice welcome.


Hi FennerMachine,

Two pieces of advice:
1) If the FP90 isn't loud enough, don't bother yourself on portable pianos full stop. The FP90 is rated at higher amplification than it's competitors, so if that's not loud enough for you, then you need powered monitors. Then, why bother with a portable piano, better go full stage?
2) Try out the models and decide for yourself. Only you can subjectively decide which has the best sound, action, function compromise.
Depending on where you live, you might be able to also try powered monitors at your digital piano store. I'm lucky, in Manchester UK, I can try out some nice monitors with most of the major models.

Kind regards,

Doug.
Posted By: _sem_ Re: What stage piano? - 04/04/20 08:38 PM
Originally Posted by FennerMachine

Roland FP-90
Great key action. Sounds artificial. Not quite loud enough.


I recall someone suggested to push all three EQ sliders up to get more volume.
Posted By: Morten Olsson Re: What stage piano? - 04/04/20 08:47 PM
Some will tell you they like built in speakers for the haptic feedback even if playing on large PA systems - maybe not important to most but I actually quite enjoyed the feedback from the ES8 speakers when I played that.
Posted By: FennerMachine Re: What stage piano? - 04/04/20 09:02 PM
Thank you PianoMan51 and Doug M.

I’ve tried piano amps and PA systems, and a stereo monitor/PA/speaker system would be great.
If I was performing long sessions regularly and professionally I would definitely buy a stereo PA system, but I don’t. I usually play a few pieces, maybe 5 minutes, taking turns with other amateur performers.
I can usually plug in to a PA system, but prefer not to as there is a disconnect between playing and the sound.
For the amount of time I ‘perform’ I would rather have a simple all-in-one keyboard/piano with built-in speakers. Also better to keep it simple for home use too.
I can see the logic in what you suggest though. I have contemplated a piano amp or monitors.
For most people that would be the way to go.
I will try these keyboards/pianos out when things return to ‘normal’.
I’ll retry the Yamaha P515 and some Kawai’s.

Hi sem. The other FP-90 issue is the artificial sound. Your suggestion might help others though. Thank you.

Hi Morten Olsson. Exactly! Practice at home. Sounds good. Go to venue. Use PA system. Nooooo! What has happened to my fantastic piano skills???? Built in speakers, instant recognisable feedback, ahhhh! That’s better.
Posted By: Doug M. Re: What stage piano? - 04/04/20 10:40 PM
Originally Posted by FennerMachine
Thank you PianoMan51 and Doug M.

I’ve tried piano amps and PA systems, and a stereo monitor/PA/speaker system would be great.
If I was performing long sessions regularly and professionally I would definitely buy a stereo PA system, but I don’t. I usually play a few pieces, maybe 5 minutes, taking turns with other amateur performers.
I can usually plug in to a PA system, but prefer not to as there is a disconnect between playing and the sound.
For the amount of time I ‘perform’ I would rather have a simple all-in-one keyboard/piano with built-in speakers. Also better to keep it simple for home use too.
I can see the logic in what you suggest though. I have contemplated a piano amp or monitors.
For most people that would be the way to go.
I will try these keyboards/pianos out when things return to ‘normal’.
I’ll retry the Yamaha P515 and some Kawai’s.

Hi sem. The other FP-90 issue is the artificial sound. Your suggestion might help others though. Thank you.

Hi Morten Olsson. Exactly! Practice at home. Sounds good. Go to venue. Use PA system. Nooooo! What has happened to my fantastic piano skills???? Built in speakers, instant recognisable feedback, ahhhh! That’s better.


Hi Fenner,

I had a problem when performing in a small 4 piece band. I was playing a Yamaha PSR7000 whose speakers point upwards like portable pianos. In a room on my own, the inbuilt speakers were fine. However, on stage I needed a good set of monitors pointing at me because the PA I was playing through was pointing away from me and there was a lag issue I didn't find easy to deal with.

Kind regards,

Doug.
Posted By: Fleer Re: What stage piano? - 04/05/20 01:33 AM
Do check Roland’s new stage series RD-88.
If dislike the FP-90’s V-Piano, maybe the SuperNatural sound is more to your liking.
Posted By: peterws Re: What stage piano? - 04/05/20 04:55 PM
Originally Posted by FennerMachine


Hi Morten Olsson. Exactly! Practice at home. Sounds good. Go to venue. Use PA system. Nooooo! What has happened to my fantastic piano skills???? Built in speakers, instant recognisable feedback, ahhhh! That’s better.


A 30W general purpose built in amp/speaker would be so easy to use; place it on the floor just behind you, and you'll get all the feedback you need which with the piano's natural output, would well suffice for gigs as you describe them.

Then, whatever pianio you preferred for practice would do the job since the external amp would be adjustable.
Playing with a band, you don't need stereo, it's anti-social. Sets you apart from the others. And, too, it's good to play in compromising situations; the experience is invaluable.

Aren't you just so glad I chipped in? grin
Posted By: _sem_ Re: What stage piano? - 04/05/20 10:02 PM
Originally Posted by FennerMachine
The other FP-90 issue is the artificial sound.


Is this via built-in speakers or also via quality headphones?
Have you tried different soundboard types etc?
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2787442/re-roland-fp90.html#Post2787442
You could run a free trial of Pianoteq or other VST, connect the FP90 to the computer via MIDI, then audio back from the computer to FP90 line-in, and turn the "local control" off. If you like the sound, Pianoteq can run on a small PC box or even a Raspberry Pi (not sure how restricted). Or you may find that the built-in speakers are the issue.
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...-a-vst-through-the-speakers-of-a-dp.html

I liked ES8 sound more, but its keys didn't feel as good. As for the speakers, the furniture CN39 nearby in store sounded notably better than the ES8. I'm afraid all slab speakers are very far from perfect.

Btw both FP90 and ES8 are due to get successors.
Posted By: Sweelinck Re: What stage piano? - 04/05/20 10:26 PM
You don’t need a stereo sound system to play with other musicians. In fact, it can create more problems than it solves. A decent quality PA appropriately placed will enable you to focus on your other requirements. Insisting on using built-in speakers in a stage or portable piano is constraining the problem to the point of having zero instruments to meet your requirements.
Posted By: Charles Cohen Re: What stage piano? - 04/06/20 01:22 AM
Quote
. . . Insisting on using built-in speakers in a stage or portable piano is constraining the problem to the point of having zero instruments to meet your requirements.


+1.

Check out whatever PA/stage-monitor is replacing the EV ZXA1. The ZXA1 weighs under 20 lbs, and will handle a hall of 100 people or so, and match OK with an amplified guitar and singer. It's quite flat, and the 8" woofer is enough for piano, IMHO.

You only need one, not a stereo pair. If the audience is really wide -- that's why God made "house PA" systems.

Yamaha, Yorkville, and others make similar units.
Posted By: Abdol Re: What stage piano? - 04/06/20 06:52 AM
Originally Posted by FennerMachine
Thank you PianoMan51 and Doug M.

I’ve tried piano amps and PA systems, and a stereo monitor/PA/speaker system would be great.
If I was performing long sessions regularly and professionally I would definitely buy a stereo PA system, but I don’t. I usually play a few pieces, maybe 5 minutes, taking turns with other amateur performers.
I can usually plug in to a PA system, but prefer not to as there is a disconnect between playing and the sound.
For the amount of time I ‘perform’ I would rather have a simple all-in-one keyboard/piano with built-in speakers. Also better to keep it simple for home use too.
I can see the logic in what you suggest though. I have contemplated a piano amp or monitors.
For most people that would be the way to go.
I will try these keyboards/pianos out when things return to ‘normal’.
I’ll retry the Yamaha P515 and some Kawai’s.

Hi sem. The other FP-90 issue is the artificial sound. Your suggestion might help others though. Thank you.

Hi Morten Olsson. Exactly! Practice at home. Sounds good. Go to venue. Use PA system. Nooooo! What has happened to my fantastic piano skills???? Built in speakers, instant recognisable feedback, ahhhh! That’s better.


What you just said, doesn't fit a stage piano's bill. You should purchase a digital piano. A decent stage piano with internal speakers doesn't exist. A good pair of speakers and amp inside a stage piano will weight a ton! and is imparactical because you don't (can't differentiate) need quality speakers on the stage! Even when jamming, you need to adjust the mix otherwise and the speakers are not great for this purpose (other musicians can't hear what you can hear...).

Anyway, you want a stage piano, they don't come with speakers.

Digital Pianos come with speakers.
Posted By: Steve Rose Re: What stage piano? - 04/06/20 11:38 AM
I’d just like to add to the view that what you’re asking for doesn’t really exist in any sort of satisfactory way. Stage Piano’s with built in speakers are a compromise. They are likely to be heavier if they can actually be heard at all in a live band situation. I to liked the haptic feedback of my old Yamaha P250 but it wasn’t worth the weight.
The Dexibel uses a below standard Fatar TP40 keybed. Sure you can play piano on it, but it will never be the experience you’d get from the Kawai or Roland stage pianos. Or even the Casio PX5s.
We live in an age where we can apparently have own truth! But reality bites.
I suggest you step out of your ‘own truth’ comfort zone and take a real hard look at proper stage pianos like the RD2000, Kawai MP7se and Casio PX5s. Add to these one or two of the smart phone market battery/usb powered speaker sets you can now buy for under £60 and you’ll have a home setup that’s better than most home pianos with built in speakers and it’s light, portable and flexible enough to use anywhere! During this lock down I play my PX5s with just one of these speakers in my van! Works well enough. And I haven’t compromised on the most important bit.. the piano!
Posted By: clothearednincompo Re: What stage piano? - 04/06/20 06:06 PM
A Yamaha CP300? 😁

It's got a 2 x 30 W speaker system.

But otherwise...isn't it like a 90's model that just refuses to die?

(It was introduced in 2006, actually.)
Posted By: Pete14 Re: What stage piano? - 04/06/20 06:13 PM
Yes, it’s just Yamaha being Yamaha. They don’t ‘officially’ discontinue the CP300, nor do they upgrade it. And yes, they still want big bucks for this instrument; which, as good as it is, does not stack up well against the P515.
Posted By: Abdol Re: What stage piano? - 04/06/20 07:10 PM
Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
A Yamaha CP300? 😁

It's got a 2 x 30 W speaker system.

But otherwise...isn't it like a 90's model that just refuses to die?

(It was introduced in 2006, actually.)


It's only good if you're performing in the bathroom. If everyone brings their instruments and play them through their own speakers, it'll be a horrible mess because speakers are louder when they are closer to your ears, but other band members can't really hear what you're playing. Then you end up increasing your instrument's volume and you can't hear what they're playing.

This is a very poor jamming session. A $50 mixer and a pair of PAs will take care of it so much better than spending 3K on a weird out dated instrument.

Yamaha P-515 is a digital piano. It's not a stage instrument and other voices on it are pretty much useless. Organs, Rhodes even on my MOTIF XF or even on Montage sucks really bad.

It took me a few days to get my MOTIF XF's organ sound good and it's a synth. P-515 or CP-88 doesn't even have voice editing capability. That being said, the rotary effect is absolute garbage on MOTIF series.

When it comes to overal set of good sounding instruments, MP7SE and RD-2000 (if you like Roland's piano sound...) are the only all-in-one options that sound good.
Posted By: FennerMachine Re: What stage piano? - 04/06/20 08:13 PM
Lots of interesting advice, thank you all.

FP-90:
I’ve adjusted many settings. Used headphones (Sennheiser HD 280 Pro). External amplification, keyboard amps, powered speakers, stereo PA systems, used a PA system a friend brings to the music evenings. I don’t like the sounds from FP-90. The FP-90 is going. I can get very good part-ex value.

Piano amp, powered speaker, stereo PA:
Some digital pianos/stage pianos have stereo samples. Mono amps sound awful in my experience.
I found Yamaha 400BT PA system to be very good compared to similarly priced mono amps.
I will consider some sort of extra amp/speaker system for ‘performing’. Maybe something like Roland KC series (200 for power, 220 stereo for quality?) or VOX VX50 KB valve amp, nice!
Or BT400 PA system or similar. Others at the music evening can use the PA system too. Although there is usually a PA system, so...

Steve Rose:
That’s the sort of thing I needed to know about key actions.
The Dexibell using a Fatah action that is not as good as a Casio action.
I have tried some Casio pianos. The console style ones are nice.
My Bluthner Pro 88 has a Fatah action that is not good.
That almost eliminates the Dexibell.

What is the Korg RH3 action like compared to others I’ve tried in your opinion?
Posted By: _sem_ Re: What stage piano? - 04/06/20 09:50 PM
How about trying on Pianoteq or Garritan? You've probably noticed that some folks around here believe VSTs are lightyears better than any built-in sound.
Posted By: Charles Cohen Re: What stage piano? - 04/06/20 10:49 PM
Quote
. . . Or BT400 PA system or similar. Others at the music evening can use the PA system too.


FWIW, my chant band used a Stagepas 300 (predecessor system) for a while, and it was fine.
Posted By: orcoaffamato Re: What stage piano? - 04/07/20 09:18 AM
Originally Posted by FennerMachine
The Dexibell using a Fatah action that is not as good as a Casio action.
I have tried some Casio pianos. The console style ones are nice.
My Bluthner Pro 88 has a Fatah action that is not good.
That almost eliminates the Dexibell.


I have a Dexibell VIVO P3 that I use to practice when I go on vacation in my summer house. It has the same keybed of the Dexibell VIVO P7 and VIVO S7 Pro M keyboards and of the Nord Stage 3 HP 76 (that I also have). In my opinion the key action doesn't suck, but I consider it more like an organ action, than a piano one.
Posted By: Steve Rose Re: What stage piano? - 04/07/20 11:14 AM
“ What is the Korg RH3 action like compared to others I’ve tried in your opinion?“

The Korg RH3 action is not a single thing!! Over the years they’ve changed it, so one RH3 is probably different to another. Generally I’d consider it to be about as good as the keyboard that was on the Roland RD700SX. Ok but not anywhere near as good as the current Roland RD2000 (PHA50) or the Kawai MP7SE (RHIII ) keybeds. And again I think the Casio PX5S keybed is better than any Korg RH3 for piano realism.
I don’t include the MP11SE here because I think it is not a serious option if you want to move it around and you haven’t got a forklift truck!

BTW I do like the Yamaha P515 NWX keybed, but I don’t like Yamaha's tight-fisted attitude. They’ve effectively hobbled (limited) the value of both the P515 and CP88 by not including full editing or crossover features (Stage/ home). For example the CP88 doesn’t have escapement and only has a stage (overly bright ) version of its piano samples. So it’s really not the piano you'd choose if you’re playing at home or at intimate gigs. Similarly the P515 has a limited sound set, fairly weedy speakers, limited effects and no individual note editing, so it’s not the instrument to use on stage. So basically they want you to buy both! How much more would the CP88 have cost if they'd made it full featured like the RD2000? It’s basically Yamaha penny pinching.
Posted By: ColoRodney Re: What stage piano? - 04/07/20 04:11 PM
I've been using a Kawai ES8 as a stage and performance piano (as well as my music entry keyboard) for several years. The speakers are excellent. The sounds are nice and rich. I have no trouble going back and forth between its keyboard and my acoustic grand. It's on the heavy side because of the speakers, but if you get the Kawai case with wheels it's perfectly manageable. I bought a used Bose L1 tower system with a bass unit that I use if it's a really big performance, or to bring the violinist up to the sound of the ES8, but I prefer to use the internal speakers and just play acoustically. If people are talking at a gig, that's their prerogative. I'm not trying to drown them out.

Unless you're really picky I wouldn't get a VST for shows: a half-dozen more cables, more equipment, more things to go wrong, and they're not that much better. For recordings, sure. Not for live work unless you've got roadies.

And I really really love not needing a keyboard amp. I never got a good acoustic piano sound from my Korg SV1 unless I was using headphones.
Posted By: magicpiano Re: What stage piano? - 04/07/20 05:37 PM
Originally Posted by _sem_
[...]You've probably noticed that some folks around here believe VSTs are lightyears better than any built-in sound.

Well, they are not lightyears but at least 10 years ahead. We are talking about 30-40 seconds of fully unlooped and very high-quality samples vs 3-4 seconds of "not so high quality" samples + about 1 second of looped sound. We are talking about dozens of velocity layers vs 3-4, maybe 5 in top DPs. We are talking about real una-corda samples vs just some (usually very basic) software emulation. And I could continue...

At least Roland tries to make a true modeling engine. But the sound is not on par yet with good samples.
Posted By: EVC2017 Re: What stage piano? - 04/07/20 07:03 PM
Originally Posted by ColoRodney
It's on the heavy side because of the speakers, but if you get the Kawai case with wheels it's perfectly manageable.


I don't think so. I would have to weigh to be sure but speakers plus plastic enclosure working as acoustic box must weigh 1kg, 2kg at most. From my experience disassembling it, the steel chassis/cabinet and MDF base must be responsible half of ES8's weight, with keybed responding for a great part of the other half.
Posted By: terminaldegree Re: What stage piano? - 04/07/20 08:50 PM
Originally Posted by EVC2017
Originally Posted by ColoRodney
It's on the heavy side because of the speakers, but if you get the Kawai case with wheels it's perfectly manageable.


I don't think so. I would have to weigh to be sure but speakers plus plastic enclosure working as acoustic box must weigh 1kg, 2kg at most. From my experience disassembling it, the steel chassis/cabinet and MDF base must be responsible half of ES8's weight, with keybed responding for a great part of the other half.


Agreed. There’s actually very little weight difference between the MP7SE and ES8, despite the same action and similar construction (albeit different features).
Posted By: FennerMachine Re: What stage piano? - 04/07/20 10:08 PM
VST is a no. I would prefer an all-in-one solution for simplicity.

In direct contradiction to that, has anyone tried the Vox VX50 KB amp?
Thinking of using one (or two) to augment the output of whatever I get.

Weight of a portable piano is not an issue, my PF-90 weighs 23.6KG and I can carry that.

I will try Kawai ES8, Dexibell P7, Korg SV2s and a few others, but leaning toward Korg SV2s.
From videos it looks good, sounds good, key action is OK from descriptions, speakers might be good enough plus they point a little forward instead of up.
Posted By: Ragtime2k Re: What stage piano? - 04/08/20 07:30 AM
just for the conversation,

I had a chance to try the ES110 and I've been very positively surprised about the sound and keyboard action quality, better than anything else I tried in its league, price and weight.

Of course the models you mentioned are in a different league...

Nonetheless, the ES110 "acoustic" piano and Rhodes sounds are pretty good, and most of the times that's all you need.

Consider that it's so light you can pick it up with two fingers and it has onboard speakers too.

If I went gigging very often, especially if not professionally, I wouldn't underestimate portability.

Since its quite cheap, I'd buy it as a "second" DP, easy to carry around as needed... and I'm pretty sure it could handle some professional level situation, too

I don't understand how you don't like Kawai keyboard action. The RH3 is probably the best plastic action around,. Besides, if I'm not wrong, it should be the same the Korg SV2 has (which is a very good instrument)
Posted By: clothearednincompo Re: What stage piano? - 04/08/20 07:51 AM
Kawai has RH III.

Korg has RH3.

They are not the same.
Posted By: Sweelinck Re: What stage piano? - 04/13/20 05:56 AM
Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Originally Posted by EVC2017
Originally Posted by ColoRodney
It's on the heavy side because of the speakers, but if you get the Kawai case with wheels it's perfectly manageable.

I don't think so. I would have to weigh to be sure but speakers plus plastic enclosure working as acoustic box must weigh 1kg, 2kg at most. From my experience disassembling it, the steel chassis/cabinet and MDF base must be responsible half of ES8's weight, with keybed responding for a great part of the other half.

Agreed. There’s actually very little weight difference between the MP7SE and ES8, despite the same action and similar construction (albeit different features).

Yes. Both are spec’d at 22.5kg. The ES8 provides the built-in sound system. The MP7SE provides a larger palette of sounds, and list price is $150 higher. As more of a true stage piano, the MP7SE may hold its value a little bit better if you decide to sell it, but no guarantees. An overlooked feature of the ES8 is the availability of a dedicated stand with triple pedal lyre for it. I’m not aware that it can be used with the MP7SE. I decided to get the MP7SE but mostly just use the piano sounds. Maybe I should have opted for the ES8 to save some cash, but I am satisfied with the choice.
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