I have access to two Kawai acoustic pianos that I occasionally play. Owning an N1X for 9 months now has helped me to transition between digital and acoustic pianos pretty effortlessly. Not something I could do comfortably before I had the N1X.

One Kawai acoustic piano is a 5 foot grand the that doesn't have a pleasing tone to my ear and an action that doesn't feel smooth like my N1X. I would rather own my N1X than the 5 foot Kawai acoustic.

The other Kawai acoustic is a 7 foot grand that sounds beautiful and has a wonderfully smooth action. I mentioned in another thread that I'd rather have the 7' foot Kawai grand than my N1X.

However, I was playing the 7' Kawai grand today and I realized that even though it has gorgeous sound and plays beautifully, I think I'd still rather have my N1X. Here are the reasons why.

1. A 7' foot grand is loud. Forget about playing at night when my family is sleeping or doing anything else that requires peace and quiet.
2. It's got a pretty big footprint. If you don't have sufficient space it's not really going to work. I would have to keep it in my basement.
3. I would lose the ease of recording and experimenting with different VSTs. Although, that is somewhat mitigated by the beautifully full and rich sound of the acoustic.
4. I'm not sure I'm ready for the commitment of regular tuning and regulation that's necessary with an acoustic. I'd probably end up learning as much as I can to see if I could do it myself. At least the tuning part.

Bottom line:

At this time the N1X really fits my lifestyle. It doesn't compare to a good acoustic in tone and resonance, (not even with the best VSTs), but it has enough advantages to create a pleasingly authentic acoustic experience while maintaining all the advantages of a digital.

Here are a couple songs I recorded today on the 7' Kawai grand. It was recorded with the mic on my iPhone 6 so it clearly doesn't begin to capture the fullness of this beautiful acoustic. Both songs were arranged by me.



God Bless,
David

I can understand your experience.
Just wait for next 5yrs, and maybe Kawai Grand Aures will be released.
Actually, both Y/K have ability to modify or retrofit any model of their upright&grand AP to hybrid ADP.

Why not keep both, best of both worlds.

When it comes to regulating and especially tuning ,some things are better left to professionals.

Sounds awesome, thanks for sharing. The acoustic really seems to pack an emotional punch.

That Kawai sounds great indeed. My experience is also that the N1X is a good match for small grands. It’s only when you try medium sized, well regulated/tuned grands that the acoustic shows it’s the boss. But then it takes place, needs tuning and can bother people.

That would be cool. Unfortunately, it would probably take me more than 10 years to save up enough money to afford one.



That's hard for me to do. I hate paying someone to do something if there is a reasonable possibility for me to learn how to do it for free.



Yes, it does. I'm tempted to take a couple condenser mics, my laptop, and the 2i4 down there to try and capture the warmth and power this piano has. It's sounds very tinny with the iPhone mic. It does not do this piano justice.



I noticed that even when I purchased my N1X. The dealership had some low-end baby grands and after playing one I remember thinking that I would not feel good about buying it. The N1X holds its own until you start moving up in size and quality.

God Bless,
David

The timing of this post is interesting I only owned digital piano keyboards , and I’m wishing how I can get an upright in my home Bc digital don’t feel expressive ..
Though 3 years ago when I tried uprights in a store my observations were similar to yours ... I enjoyed n1 upright digital hybrid more ... I feel it may not be now the case now

I didn't know that Kawai manufactured a seven-inch acoustic piano.

Casualty of the very short editing window.

David B,

A very good friend of mine has been a piano technician since the 1960's and now, in his 80's, he's still tuning pianos 5-6 days a week. During my college years, he paid me to help him work on pianos - re-string, soundboard repairs, refinish... I also learned to tune pianos but after doing that every single day for a year, I gave up. If you ever try to tune a 12-string guitar, you'd know it's not easy (otherwise there wouldn't be so many guitarists playing out of tune!). There are 230 strings in a piano and even if you use a very expensive strobe tuner to get every string in tune; after your done, the whole thing will sound terrible because the bass notes need to be way flat and the treble notes need to be way sharp (stretched tuning). There are many steps and techniques which I won't go into but I can tell you that after a year of tuning my piano every day, I finally asked him to tune it for me then gave him all my tuning tools - tuning fork, tuning hammer, felt strips... I can honestly say I tried my best. He said my problem was I was a perfectionist and could hear every little flaw in my work so I kept going back to try try to get it perfect... The problem is, after an hour of pounding (and you have to pound hard) on each note over and over, you're ears are really finished! You may have a much better experience but I can tell you that after that year, I never complained about paying to get my piano tunes again!

I've been eyeing a beautiful Kawai GS-60 7' grand myself because I haven't been fully happy with any digital or hybrid but still I remember how miserable I was every time the humidity went up or down and the piano would be out of tune, about the humidifier and dehumidifier... Of course an older piano stays in tune better than a brand new one but like a car, an acoustic piano will require regular maintenance.

If I end up buying the 7' Kawai grand, I will still have my MP11se in the same room, probably right next to it anyway.

I do have a strobe tuner that I've used to adjust the intonation on my electric guitar. I'm not sure if it would work for the piano though.



I think I might find it interesting to learn the process if I actually did own an acoustic and wanted to tune it myself.



I'm a perfectionist too, but I don't think I have a very good ear so I might not have the same problem you did.



Yeah, even if I could afford an acoustic the maintenance would be a bit of a deterrent (unless I could learn how to tune a piano).

God Bless,
David

Hi David,

I just wanted to share with you the frustration I went through learning to tune pianos and absolutely didn't mean to imply that you couldn't do it I think it would be awesome if you could!!!

One thing about learning to tune on our own "living room" piano... you and your family may have to live with a slightly to terribly out-of-tune piano for a while; in my case... a year

The Kawai GS-60 I looked at is a $65k 7' grand in great condition. The guy is moving to Hawai and is asking $7800, which is less than the price of a N1X. I talked to the person who's been tuning this piano for years and he said it's barely off after one year of everyday playing so my justification is: I can pay for tuning for many years before I reach the cost of a N3X

You seem very passionate about playing; it would be awesome if you could get something like this GS-60 if you have the room for it. Just set $10 aside a day for tuning if you don't feel like doing it yourself

That sounds like a great deal.



Unfortunately, the house I currently live in does not have a "great room" that could accommodate a 7' grand.



How many days would it take? I've never inquired what the cost for tuning is.

God bless,
David

I have heard several stories about people trying to learn how to tune a piano. None of them were successful.

For the $150/year, I am glad to let a professional handle it.

That's not an unreasonable price. .41 cents a day, 2.88 a week, or 12.50 a month.

God Bless,
David

Paying for tuning is often about finances...but it's sometimes about priorities too.

I know a person who can afford a country club membership for his whole family but hasn't tuned his piano (that his kids practice on daily) for 10 years because "tuning is EXPENSIVE!" according to that person.

I pay $150 a month for cable TV ... because my wife simply must have TV. If it were up to me I wouldn't even own a TV set.

So $150 twice a year for a piano tuning is peanuts. And far more worthwhile.

TV makes you stupid. The piano does not.

How often did you have to tune it , if done professionally ,and how many hours do you play per week?

my worst fear is if end up buying a acoustic in the future, and it does not hold its tune, even if tuned professionally

LOL! That's a great quote.

It belongs in a signature line.

God Bless,
David

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you that TV makes you stupid. I learn so much from watching TV!!! I watch a lot of documentaries though.

$10/day? Is this in USD? What tuners need $3,650 / year for tuning? That would pay for a new Roland FP30 every 3 months!

Isn't the ballpark figure closer to 2 recommended tunings per year, at approx. USD100 -150 per tuning?

In my area, it's CAD$100 - 150 per tuning.

Once a year is insufficient. It will certainly be playable but the piano won’t sound perfectly in tune even after a week. I’ve tuned my upright piano using a dedicated software that detects inharmonicity of strings and calculates proper stretch. It’s not such a big deal and I learned how to set the pins and use the lever halfway through my first tuning. Tuning the unisons by ear is also very easy. And the piano never sounded as good before, when our aural tuner used to tune it. So, count me as the first case of DIY tuned piano that’s been successful 🙋🏻‍♂️I love doing and understanding things myself. It’s not the money.

I wish I could do things myself. I think people who can DIY (anything) are extremely gifted.

Do we not have self-tuning pianos yet?

Yes, I suspect that $3,650/year would pay for a tuning every two weeks.

Yes we do. They are called "digital pianos."

....but I’m talking about an acoustic with ‘pins’ that adjust automatically without the need for manual intervention.

Basically, the piano will use sensors/mics that continuously ‘listen’ for notes that are out of tune and then send commands for the pins to self adjust to the correct tuning. The user will never notice the piano going out of tune because the self-tuning system is continuously making micro adjustments.

Robot tuners are available for guitars:
https://www.roadiemusic.com/

I wonder how good that would be for pin blocks in the long term.

A robot tuner would need to make many microadjustments across unisons to get a single note right.

Sorry to scare the heck out of you David, I meant $10 a month

That's not bad. That's like one visit to the subway for lunch.

God Bless,
David

Given that there are over 200 strings to be tuned you're asking for a lot.
Over 200 tuning mechanisms. And 88 key pressing mechanisms.
The human piano tuner begins to sound like a bargain.

Perhaps this -expense- is why we don’t have a self tuning piano.

Personally, I would get such a system even if a -human- tuner were much cheaper because I had a bad experience with a male tuner: turns out he decided to fine tune my wife as a bonus that I did not ask for.
Needless to say, she loved it and left me for ‘Tom’, the piano tuner.

There is a self tuning piano, there are several old threads on here about it, the last post from the designer in 2017 though. A website here or read the threads.

I brought my mics, computer, and 2i4 down to the church tonight to record the Kawai 7' grand. It was pretty cold in there and I didn't want to heat the entire sanctuary just for the short amount of time I would be there. My hands never really warmed up.

I placed two condenser mics 9" off the strings and 27" apart for a L/R stereo signal. I panned it from the player perspective. This piano does need to be tuned (I believe it's been close to a year), but I think is still sounds pretty good. I haven't heard it over my studio monitors yet because I've uploaded it from the church. I've only listened to it through my headphones (Sennheiser HD 58X).

Even though I wish I had more time to try different mic positions, I think I've captured the essence of this piano. None of my VST's or onboard sounds match the beauty and power of this acoustic. I'll play two simple hymns that were part of the Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course.



God Bless,
David

Lovely sound, isn’t it! Nothing beats a good acoustic piano. No need to even argue that point 👊🏻

‘Nothing beats a good acoustic piano’.......yet!

Quantum computer + pure/real/from-scratch/100% physical modeling built into the NV20 (soundboard included).

Hopefully that will be cheaper than a real Yamaha CFX 😉

Many of us DIY lovers, can tune the piano successfully. But the pros are afraid of becoming redundant, and they will tell you that tuning requires years of dedication and experience, yawn.

amen to that.

That is a nice sounding piano. Would be a bummer to see it go.

That is wonderful playing David!

Playing a nice grand piano is a very special experience. "Grand Obsession" is a real thing