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Posted By: pppianomarc Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 01:57 AM
On Monday I received my Kawai NV5. I ordered it right away in early August when the announcement was made. Unseen and without trying it, yet it promised to be almost exactly what I was looking for. Now it stands in front of me I am absolutely happy with it!

About me:

I started learning piano just two years ago. My previous piano is a Kawai CN37, and once per week I get to play on my teachers acoustic Yamaha upright. The motivation to upgrade my piano was to make it look and feel more like an acoustic one.

Unfortunately I can't own a real acoustic right now, and getting one with a mediocre silent system feels like a downgrade to me. So, about one year ago, I decided to get the best in digital now, and complement it with a good acoustic later when time comes. However I couldn't decide which model is best for me. On my final list were Kawai CS11, CS98, NV10, and Yamaha N1X. But each of them had disadvantages, too, or wasn't enough of an upgrade. So I kept waiting for a new model, or for my living situation to change.

Why I chose the NV5:

When the NV5 was announced, it checked all the boxes. In particular it tops the other candidates because of the real piano action, the soundboard, the size, the polished finish, and it comes with the same two voices that I use on my old CN37.

I also set my expectations about the weak points and unknowns. I didn't mind the upright action, although some consider it inferior to a grand action. Around here most pianos are uprights, and I was looking for realism, so there. I also knew the touchscreen is quirky, but most alternatives have usability issues too. I didn't expect any serious audio quality problems, because the CA98 uses similar technology (and there were lessons learned with the NV10). The same goes for the hammer attachment which is said to be slightly different in the NV5.

My only remaining worries were if there was a lot of mechanical noise from the action, and whether or not I would like the touch.

My first impressions:

It turns out I like the touch, at least as far as I can tell from the short time I had with it so far. It is a bit heavier than expected. I enjoy how I can feel what is going on inside, and I instantly got better control over dynamics compared to my CN37. On the other hand, the upright action is less forgiving to my lazy RH 4 that sometimes doesn't lift all the way up. The NV5 will help me improve my technique a lot.

Of course the mechanism is noisier than the CN37, but still surprisingly quiet.

Anticipating other questions that you might have: The white keys are glossy, the black keys matte. The touchscreen backlight does not turn off. The damper pedal is quite heavy, heavier than the other two pedals. The key-off velocity is not being measured (one of the few things my CN37 did better). The KAWAI logo is on the inside of the keyboard cover, right under the music stand, and is only visible when the music stand is stowed.

Ask me anything.
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 02:05 AM
Welcome to PW and congrats on your NV5. Glad to see you are happy with it.

Question, you listed the N1X, but not the NU1X, which is the closest Yamaha competitor to the NV5, as unlike the N1X, the NU1X has an upright action. Why did you not consider the NU1X?

BTW, seems like you have started the official NV5 thread. JoBert's NV10 thread has over 3700 posts. I wonder how many this one will get smile
Posted By: robinlb Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 02:13 AM
Wow, congratulation!
How fast you got it!
I'm concerned about its cabinet resonance comparing with CA98, and I think it's better even though the built in audio is almost the same.
Posted By: pppianomarc Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 02:28 AM
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Why did you not consider the NU1X?


I considered it once, but then discarded it. Mostly because of the loud note issue, which at the time did not have any fix (except maybe a hacky MIDI filter). I also tried an NU1 in the past and it didn't make me want to buy it. There is probably a subjective and emotional aspect to this decision, too.
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 02:47 AM
Originally Posted by pppianomarc
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Why did you not consider the NU1X?
I considered it once, but then discarded it. Mostly because of the loud note issue, which at the time did not have any fix (except maybe a hacky MIDI filter). I also tried an NU1 in the past and it didn't make me want to buy it. There is probably a subjective and emotional aspect to this decision, too.

Aha. And I suppose the emotional aspect made you not consider the NU1X even after there was a loud note fix.

What did you feel the major disadvantages of the N1X were, as compared to the NV5?
Posted By: robinlb Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 02:48 AM
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Why did you not consider the NU1X?


Originally Posted by pppianomarc

Why I chose the NV5:

When the NV5 was announced, it checked all the boxes. In particular it tops the other candidates because of the real piano action, the soundboard, the size, the polished finish, and it comes with the same two voices that I use on my old CN37.


I think those are the answers. Soundboard speaker and Kawai sound source, these are two things NU1x does not have.
Posted By: Peddler100 Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 03:25 AM
Congrats on your new DP. The NV5 looks great.
Posted By: navindra Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 03:28 AM
How does it sound -- does the soundboard help?
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 05:00 AM
Congrats!

Here's my question:

Can you post some pics and videos? smile
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 05:49 AM
pppianomarc, congrats on your new piano!

Also, as the saying goes, "pics, or it didn't happen". wink

Cheers,
James
x
Posted By: johanibraaten Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 07:25 AM
Congratulations to your new piano pppianomarc!

it seems like a great choice and the looks are stellar.
Posted By: JoBert Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 09:19 AM
I scrolled, and I scrolled, and I scrolled, and I reached the end of the thread and ... no pics! shocked

wink (joking)

Congratulations! I wish you a lot of enjoyment with it!

But still, pics would be great!
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 12:26 PM
Originally Posted by JoBert
I scrolled, and I scrolled, and I scrolled, and I reached the end of the thread and ... no pics! shocked

wink (joking)

Congratulations! I wish you a lot of enjoyment with it!

But still, pics would be great!


I agree! If this is to be the official thread of the NV5 for years and years to come, it will not do for new shoppers to see any entire first page of the thread without a single pic! 😉

BTW, to insert pictures, upload your pics over here, then follow these instructions.

You can insert the resulting pic URL ending in ".jpg", ".png", ".gif" or other standard graphics file extension, between a matching pair of IMG tags like so:

[img]http://someurlofyourNV5lookinggreat.jpg[/img]

And because we can't have the official NV5 thread be pic-less forever, here one of the original marketing communication shots by Kawai from their announcement:

[Linked Image]

Now show us yours, pppianomarc! 😀
Posted By: pppianomarc Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 12:31 PM
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
What did you feel the major disadvantages of the N1X were, as compared to the NV5?


The N1X was a strong contender. The disadvantages that I perceived were its depth (it wouldn't fit into the same place as my old one), its user interface, and the voices (in the past I chose my CN37 over a CLP635/645 because of the voices). When it was announced, it first struck me in a similar way as the NV5, but I didn't feel confident enough about it to buy it unseen. Until today I didn't have the opportunity to actually try it. Who knows, maybe it would have convinced me?


Originally Posted by navindra
How does it sound -- does the soundboard help?


It sounds great! The Pianist Classic voice is very pleasing, and it also comes with my other two favourite voices.

The soundboard makes the piano more inmersive, you get to feel it vibrate with the lower notes. Of course there isn't that tactile feedback of an acoustic where the key vibrates while it damps the string, but still. It also looks good, like a real piano rather than IKEA furniture, at least on that day you move it.



Originally Posted by Gombessa
Can you post some pics and videos? smile


Here is a picture: Kawai NV5

[Linked Image]

Posted By: JoBert Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 12:39 PM
Very nice!

And you know: If this were the acoustic piano forum, one of the next comments would be warning you about putting the piano right next to a radiator, and to never ever switch on this radiator ever again (or the world will explode!). No such concerns for you! smile
Posted By: robinlb Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 12:53 PM
Very Nice, maybe more pics would be better.
Btw, leaves the back plate away from the wall at least 20cm will be good effect for soundboard speaker.
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 12:58 PM
Originally Posted by JoBert
And you know: If this were the acoustic piano forum, one of the next comments would be warning you about putting the piano right next to a radiator, and to never ever switch on this radiator ever again (or the world will explode!).

What? You mean I didn't necessarily need to move my N1X from in front of the radiator? (I had the interior designer rush my interior re-design project just to get the piano away from the radiator before they were activated for the winter, and she made it by 3 days!)

I think radiators are still not great for electronics, especially if they get very hot.

pppianomarc, you might check if the area of the touch panel is getting very warm.

Originally Posted by pppianomarc
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
What did you feel the major disadvantages of the N1X were, as compared to the NV5?
The N1X was a strong contender. The disadvantages that I perceived were its depth (it wouldn't fit into the same place as my old one), its user interface, and the voices (in the past I chose my CN37 over a CLP635/645 because of the voices). When it was announced, it first struck me in a similar way as the NV5, but I didn't feel confident enough about it to buy it unseen. Until today I didn't have the opportunity to actually try it. Who knows, maybe it would have convinced me

Understandable. But if you mostly play piano without headphones, I'm guessing that even if you had tried it, you would have been blown away by the immersive quality of the NV5 soundboard and chosen it instead.

Originally Posted by pppianomarc
Here is a picture: Kawai NV5

[Linked Image]

Looks great! Fit's perfectly in that spot. But what about the window? Doesn't that angle cause glare off the white keys?

And what is that little painting of the harvest field, to the right?
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 02:08 PM
Well, the radiator makes for wider (and extreme) humidity and temperature swings, which is bad for 1) tuning stability, and 2) wooden parts. You don't have to worry about 1, but for 2, the soundboard could strain, dry out or crack prematurely, the action parts might swell or shrink and affect affecting the touch and regulation, and the chassis may also start shifting, which could lead to creaks or affect the smoothness of the finish.

None of these have as much impact on a DP of course, bit imo it makes sense to not invite abuse (but those acoustic guys can be insanely over the top with their daily humidity measurements and what not).

Posted By: Jitin Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 02:56 PM
how much is the nv5? and how does servicing it work, what type of technicians would service it?

i assume even though it has regular action, it would not be acoustic piano technicians
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 02:59 PM
Originally Posted by Jitin
how much is the nv5?

The list price in Japan on introduction is given here.

pppianomarc, can you update the prices paid thread with what you paid for your new baby to help those that come after?

Originally Posted by Jitin
and how does servicing it work, what type of technicians would service it?

i assume even though it has regular action, it would not be acoustic piano technicians

TomLC is getting a full keyboard action regulation on his Kawai NV10 from a technician associated with his Kawai service center. I'd assumed this is an acoustic piano technician who has been trained on their hybrids, but TomLC might come and clarify this.
Posted By: Jitin Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 03:19 PM
Wow....6500 is lot of money
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 03:20 PM
Originally Posted by Jitin
Wow....6500 is lot of money

List price. In Japan.

It's less than an NV10 or an N1X.
Posted By: JoBert Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 03:42 PM
Originally Posted by Jitin
i assume even though it has regular action, it would not be acoustic piano technicians

Why not? The action is essentially the same as in a Kawai acoustic upright. The sensor system is essentially the same as in a Kawai acoustic upright with a silent system. Acoustic pianos with silent systems are very common these days, and I would guess many acoustic piano technicians have to work on them routinely. Their knowledge should transfer to the NV5 (or NV10) at least well enough to do basic regulation, fixing of parts, etc.
Posted By: pppianomarc Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 04:28 PM
Originally Posted by Jitin
how much is the nv5? and how does servicing it work, what type of technicians would service it?


I was quoted an approximate 6500 EUR when I ordered it in August. In the end I had to pay 5900 EUR (including VAT).

This is with the (only) brick-and-mortar shop which offers Kawai in my town. They also sell acoustics, and should be able to do such service. I specifically didn't order from internet to support the continued existance of such shops.
Posted By: U3piano Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 04:43 PM
Very nice, i wonder if you could do some recordings? blush


The only thing i can't get my head around is how Kawai failed to provide something so simple, the option to turn the display off completely. This, while they do understand the value, since they designed the CS11 with a control cover, which i think is great. It wouldn't put me off buying it, but it's things like this that make me wonder... how.... why!? How did you design such a fantastic, complicated instrument, but could not.... make a little light switch off?
Posted By: ˆTomLCˆ Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 04:57 PM
Originally Posted by Jitin
how much is the nv5? and how does servicing it work, what type of technicians would service it?

i assume even though it has regular action, it would not be acoustic piano technicians


In the US service on hybrids is performed by acoustic technicians. At least that is my experience.
Posted By: ˆTomLCˆ Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 05:12 PM
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop


TomLC is getting a full keyboard action regulation on his Kawai NV10 from a technician associated with his Kawai service center. I'd assumed this is an acoustic piano technician who has been trained on their hybrids, but TomLC might come and clarify this.


Actually Tyrone got it right on. I called him for this because I know him now, he lives nearby, and he knows how the Novus is different from an acoustic piano. In fact, he is the only person I trust with this.
Posted By: ˆTomLCˆ Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 05:21 PM
Originally Posted by pppianomarc

I was quoted an approximate 6500 EUR when I ordered it in August. In the end I had to pay 5900 EUR (including VAT).

This is with the (only) brick-and-mortar shop which offers Kawai in my town. They also sell acoustics, and should be able to do such service. I specifically didn't order from internet to support the continued existance of such shops.


5900 Eur is about $6500 in the US. Plus sales tax of as much as 10% (Calif.) So around $7000 incl. tax. The NU1x can be bought for less than $4500 plus tax.
Posted By: U3piano Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 05:27 PM
Originally Posted by TomLC

5900 Eur is about $6500 in the US. Plus sales tax of as much as 10% (Calif.) So around $7000 incl. tax. The NU1x can be bought for less than $4500 plus tax.


That's quite a price difference. I haven't played a NV5 yet, but i'd say that makes the NU1x quite attractive for people deciding between these 2 hybrid uprights. I guess it's normal for a new product to be priced quite high tough, the NU1x has been around for a while now.
Posted By: ˆTomLCˆ Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 05:53 PM
Originally Posted by U3piano
Originally Posted by TomLC

5900 Eur is about $6500 in the US. Plus sales tax of as much as 10% (Calif.) So around $7000 incl. tax. The NU1x can be bought for less than $4500 plus tax.


That's quite a price difference. I haven't played a NV5 yet, but i'd say that makes the NU1x quite attractive for people deciding between these 2 hybrid uprights. I guess it's normal for a new product to be priced quite high tough, the NU1x has been around for a while now.


It is more expensive. As is the NV10 to the N1x. The Novus' have ten renderings (Voicings) of a SKEX. In addition to the pianos, other instruments, and chorus, in the sound mode. You can blend sounds, split, play duets, etc. The NV5 also has the soundboard speaker system.
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 05:54 PM
Originally Posted by U3piano

The only thing i can't get my head around is how Kawai failed to provide something so simple, the option to turn the display off completely. This, while they do understand the value, since they designed the CS11 with a control cover, which i think is great. It wouldn't put me off buying it, but it's things like this that make me wonder... how.... why!? How did you design such a fantastic, complicated instrument, but could not.... make a little light switch off?


Yeah, that's something you definitely notice at first, and is so easy to criticize. Why didn't they do that? But after having the piano for a while now, it's less than a non-issue. My guess as to "why" is that the specific components used tie the digitizer (touch detection layer) to the backlight. Why would you do this? Perhaps it's a carryover from the smartphone/tablet world. When the screen turns off, the backlight and touch layer do as well, and you need other sensor (power button, camera, gyroscope, radar) input to turn it back on. With the Kawai screen, there isn't any other sensor other than direct touch on the screen.

Originally Posted by TomLC

5900 Eur is about $6500 in the US. Plus sales tax of as much as 10% (Calif.) So around $7000 incl. tax. The NU1x can be bought for less than $4500 plus tax.


Yeah, it will be very interesting to try them both and see if Kawai can make a good case for a $2000-2500 premium. It was actually quite an easy case against the older N1/N2 when the NV-10 was released, but the NU1X is a current model so it'll be a much closer comparison.
Posted By: ADWyatt Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 06:26 PM
These may seem like some really odd questions, but I'll ask you to humor me.

In terms of touch, is the true acoustic upright feel of the NV5 necessarily a big advantage over the simulated grand piano touch of a model such as the CA98? The action is heavier with the NV5, but the lighter touch of the CA series might actually be more appealing to many people. (You would have been shocked to know how light the action was for Horowitz. His piano went on tour and I was allowed to play a song on it, albeit at the cost of $50.) I certainly can see the advantage of an acoustic upright action if a person will ultimately be playing an acoustic instrument for an audience, but I really have to wonder if that's such an advantage for people playing privately, especially senior citizens.

You've stated also that at least one of the pedals was quite stiff. This can be an advantage, I would think, for those who will play acoustic pianos, but for those playing privately I'm not so sure this would be a good thing, unless that stiffness can be modified. What's your thinking on this?

Finally, you've said that the display screen cannot be turned off. That sounds odd, and it gives me the impression that you may not yet know the procedure for doing so. But if you're right, that seems most unusual, since the screen can be turned off for the CA models. Could you check on that for me please?

The whole point of this post is that buying the NV5 may not necessarily be the best option for many people looking to upgrade their current model. It's wonderful that you struck pay dirt buying sight-unseen, but I have a feeling that rushing to buy the newest toy might be a recipe for disaster for many people. I therefore think that a truly objective comparison might be in order here.
Posted By: JoBert Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 06:37 PM
Originally Posted by TomLC
Originally Posted by pppianomarc

I was quoted an approximate 6500 EUR when I ordered it in August. In the end I had to pay 5900 EUR (including VAT).


5900 Eur is about $6500 in the US. Plus sales tax of as much as 10% (Calif.) So around $7000 incl. tax. The NU1x can be bought for less than $4500 plus tax.

No, the 5900€/6500$ already includes VAT. And likely a good bit more than 10% (e.g. in Germany it would be 19%, don't know where Marc is located). So in California with only 10% tax it would be around $6000 incl. tax. (assuming that Marc's VAT is 19%).

BTW, the price is at a logical price between the NV10 and the CA98 polished ebony, at Thoman they are currently listed like this (for Germany, including 19% VAT):
NV10: 8874€
NV5: 5990€
CA98 PE: 3999€
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 07:09 PM
Originally Posted by ADWyatt

In terms of touch, is the true acoustic upright feel of the NV5 necessarily a big advantage over the simulated grand piano touch of a model such as the CA98? The action is heavier with the NV5, but the lighter touch of the CA series might actually be more appealing to many people. (You would have been shocked to know how light the action was for Horowitz. His piano went on tour and I was allowed to play a song on it, albeit at the cost of $50.) I certainly can see the advantage of an acoustic upright action if a person will ultimately be playing an acoustic instrument for an audience, but I really have to wonder if that's such an advantage for people playing privately, especially senior citizens.


It's easy to make a light digital action. But it's very hard to make a realistic digital action. The Grand Feel and other premium pianos do very well, but there's still no mistaking them with a true acoustic action.

I never had the chance to try Horowitz's piano, but I had heard it was completely rebuilt before going on tour and ohers have said it bears little to no resemblance to how he had it regulated and voiced when he played it. A standard Steinway NY accelerated action is quite light, however.

Originally Posted by ADWyatt

Finally, you've said that the display screen cannot be turned off. That sounds odd, and it gives me the impression that you may not yet know the procedure for doing so. But if you're right, that seems most unusual, since the screen can be turned off for the CA models. Could you check on that for me please?


On the CAs, NV-10, and apparently NV-5 as well, you can blank out the images on the display so that it's all black after a few minutes of inactivity, but the LCD backlight never turns off, so it looks like a TV displaying a black screen - you can still see the light bleeding through the display and edges.
Posted By: pppianomarc Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 07:30 PM
Originally Posted by ADWyatt
These may seem like some really odd questions, but I'll ask you to humor me.


Upright action: This was a personal decision. I was looking for more realism, not necessarily a heavier action.

Pedal: I plan to make it lighter (like some NV10 owners did). Right now it's not really possible to feel the damper mechanism through the pedal.

About the display backlight: There is a setting to make it turn off automatically, and it works. But it only blanks the screen, meaning it sets all pixels to black and leaves the backlight on. There is light leakage from the backlight, especially in a dimmed room at night. Think of resting your cellphone next to the keyboard, showing an all black photo (at full brightness). It's been discussed over and over with the CA98 and NV10 series. I assumed that some people wanted clarification about this aspect, that's why I mentioned it. It's not bothering me. I could cut a piece of black cardboard to shape and cover it.

I agree with the rest of your posting.


Originally Posted by JoBert
(assuming that Marc's VAT is 19%)


VAT is 21% here, and included in the price I gave.
Posted By: U3piano Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 08:26 PM
Originally Posted by Gombessa


On the CAs, NV-10, and apparently NV-5 as well, you can blank out the images on the display so that it's all black after a few minutes of inactivity, but the LCD backlight never turns off, so it looks like a TV displaying a black screen - you can still see the light bleeding through the display and edges.


Ok, that doesn't sound too bad. I thought the screen would be like really bright all the time.

If that's the case i have a better understanding of why the people at Kawai didn't really feel the need to turn off the light completely.

Posted By: JoBert Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 08:46 PM
Originally Posted by pppianomarc
VAT is 21% here, and included in the price I gave.

You got a good price then. Adjusted for the different VAT it's 187€ below Thomann's price in Germany (after tax), and you supported your local shop. Well done!
Posted By: ˆTomLCˆ Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 10:27 PM
👍
Posted By: ˆTomLCˆ Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 11:07 PM
Originally Posted by TomLC
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop


TomLC is getting a full keyboard action regulation on his Kawai NV10 from a technician associated with his Kawai service center. I'd assumed this is an acoustic piano technician who has been trained on their hybrids, but TomLC might come and clarify this.


Actually Tyrone got it right on. I called him for this because I know him now, he lives nearby, and he knows how the Novus is different from an acoustic piano. In fact, he is the only person I trust with this.


I should have added that he is a member of RPT.
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 11:16 PM
I’d still be cautious since a hybrid piano isn’t an acoustic piano. The electronics and the hardware might expect particular parameters (e.g. escapement distance), blow distance and the resulting range of possible velocities, etc. It would be good if he can check his ideas on a single key with live sound (how they work with the sensing system) before he potentially wastes his time regulating the action only to realize it doesn’t work that way with the sensing system.
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 11:20 PM
Originally Posted by CyberGene
I’d still be cautious since a hybrid piano isn’t an acoustic piano. The electronics and the hardware might expect particular parameters (e.g. escapement distance), blow distance and the resulting range of possible velocities, etc. It would be good if he can check his ideas on a single key with live sound (how they work with the sensing system) before he potentially wastes his time regulating the action only to realize it doesn’t work that way with the sensing system.

But, there could actually be a Kawai technical manual for regulating the acoustical parts, just like that manual(s) for the Avantgrand. Assuming there is, any trained technician certified by the OEM to work on the piano would be working within the parameters set by the OEM. As for the Avantgrands, my dealer said he actually does have a piano tech certified by Yamaha to maintain the Avantgrand, including the acoustical grand action. I asked about this specifically at the time I bought the piano, so if issues came up, I would know where to turn.
Posted By: ˆTomLCˆ Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/15/19 11:25 PM
I thought about that Gene. Wouldn't it be the same as their silent pianos? And I don't think we are talking about "ideas." This is something they do on acoustics every day. I assume he will do one or a few keys and ask me how I like it.

To Tyrones point; if he does pull out a manual I will freak out! He does this all the time. He manages the Kawai technicians in probably Kawai's largest USA market. When I asked him about it he said" it takes 3 1/2 hours and this is what I charge per hour."
Posted By: akc42 Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/16/19 01:01 PM
Originally Posted by TomLC
Originally Posted by pppianomarc

I was quoted an approximate 6500 EUR when I ordered it in August. In the end I had to pay 5900 EUR (including VAT).

This is with the (only) brick-and-mortar shop which offers Kawai in my town. They also sell acoustics, and should be able to do such service. I specifically didn't order from internet to support the continued existance of such shops.


5900 Eur is about $6500 in the US. Plus sales tax of as much as 10% (Calif.) So around $7000 incl. tax. The NU1x can be bought for less than $4500 plus tax.


You are not comparing like for like. In Europe instead of sales tax we have VAT which that price includes. I think VAT is probably 20% (it is here in the UK).
Posted By: Fripp Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/16/19 10:15 PM
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by U3piano

The only thing i can't get my head around is how Kawai failed to provide something so simple, the option to turn the display off completely. This, while they do understand the value, since they designed the CS11 with a control cover, which i think is great. It wouldn't put me off buying it, but it's things like this that make me wonder... how.... why!? How did you design such a fantastic, complicated instrument, but could not.... make a little light switch off?


Yeah, that's something you definitely notice at first, and is so easy to criticize. Why didn't they do that? But after having the piano for a while now, it's less than a non-issue. My guess as to "why" is that the specific components used tie the digitizer (touch detection layer) to the backlight. Why would you do this? Perhaps it's a carryover from the smartphone/tablet world. When the screen turns off, the backlight and touch layer do as well, and you need other sensor (power button, camera, gyroscope, radar) input to turn it back on. With the Kawai screen, there isn't any other sensor other than direct touch on the screen.


If only Kawai decided to go with an OLED screen instead, that way the backlight wouldn't have been a problem and black would always be black, that's what I would have preferred, but being able to switch the current screen off completely would have been OK as well, but we're not getting any of these.

On another note, here's a new video of the NV5 by digitalpiano.dk (in Danish).
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/16/19 10:26 PM
Originally Posted by Fripp
On another note, here's a new video of the NV5 by digitalpiano.dk (in Danish).

Thanks! Just posting your video for convenience:
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/17/19 12:17 AM
Originally Posted by Fripp

If only Kawai decided to go with an OLED screen instead, that way the backlight wouldn't have been a problem and black would always be black, that's what I would have preferred, but being able to switch the current screen off completely would have been OK as well, but we're not getting any of these.

Yeah. However, good AMOLED panels are more expensive, and they'd have to deal with aging and burn-in much more than with even budget LCDs. Most phones have a 2-3 year lifetime, but these pianos really have to last a decade or more.
Posted By: U3piano Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/17/19 12:54 AM
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Most phones have a 2-3 year lifetime


I think they usually last much longer.

I don't care about smartphones, i usually buy a smartphone for max. around €200 (which is usually a best budget type phone) and keep it for about 4 years before i buy a new one, but i could still use the old one if i wanted to.
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/17/19 01:51 AM
Originally Posted by U3piano

I think they usually last much longer.


Yeah that's probably true. Modern OLEDs however, really stay to degrade noticeably after a couple of years.
Posted By: JoBert Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/17/19 08:06 AM
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by U3piano

I think they usually last much longer.


Yeah that's probably true. Modern OLEDs however, really stay to degrade noticeably after a couple of years.

Especially if they display a static image for hours on end, day after day. Exactly the scenario you would have with a piano - unless you made the auto-off/screensaver feature a mandatory feature that cannot be switched off.
Posted By: OldTinho Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/17/19 01:37 PM
New review video up from Bonners Music

Kawai Novus NV5 Hybrid Piano Review
Posted By: robinlb Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/17/19 03:36 PM
Originally Posted by OldTinho
New review video up from Bonners Music

Kawai Novus NV5 Hybrid Piano Review


Thanks, Bonners review is always detailed.
I agree with his feeling of Soundboard speaker, and I think NV5 has more realistic and resonance sound than CA98 by new designed larger and higher cabinet. The position of additional mid&high speakers are closer to that of the player's ear.
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/19/19 10:29 AM
Nice one!

Thanks for sharing!

Cheers,
James
x
Posted By: johanibraaten Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/19/19 10:37 AM
The NV5 seems like a really nice instrument. I like that It somewhat takes the hybrid concept even further with the soundboard.
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/19/19 01:20 PM
Originally Posted by johanibraaten
The NV5 seems like a really nice instrument. I like that It somewhat takes the hybrid concept even further with the soundboard.

Yes, there are now only two hybrids with a soundboard resonator - the NV5 and the N3X.
Posted By: robinlb Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/19/19 02:11 PM
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Yes, there are now only two hybrids with a soundboard resonator - the NV5 and the N3X.


Actually, the socalled small soundboard on N3X is not real a speaker likes the one on Kawai NV5 or CA98.
It can only provide vibrating sense to player.
Soundboard speakers of Yamaha are equipped on its TransAcoustic series.
Posted By: JoBert Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/19/19 03:04 PM
Originally Posted by robinlb
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Yes, there are now only two hybrids with a soundboard resonator - the NV5 and the N3X.


Actually, the socalled small soundboard on N3X is not real a speaker likes the one on Kawai NV5 or CA98.
It can only provide vibrating sense to player.


No, there's two things on the N3X that vibrate (in addition to the conventional speakers):

The TRS (or Tactile Response System) vibrates the keys to let the pianist feel the instrument "vibrating".

And then there's also a soundboard resonator, which is the board directly/below behind the music rest (but not the big curved board where the main speakers are placed). This board has a real transducer on it and functions as a soundboard speaker. However, it is much smaller than the Kawai DP soundboards and has more of an auxiliary character, to enhance the realism of the sound projection, than being one of the main speakers, as the Kawai soundboard is.

(At least that's what I gather from the interwebs...)
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/19/19 03:13 PM
I hope you won't interpret it as nagging but I remember we often discussed with the Bulgarian dealer how the soundboard in the 9X series isn't such a big deal, we compared them side by side with the 6X series often and at least in that store it actually made the bass even more overpowering which has already been a problem IMO with the 6X series. In any case it doesn't considerably improve the sound, at least IMO. And the example is the NV10 which people seem to universally like for its sound despite no soundboard. IMO, this is a rather marketing feature to justify a higher price and eventual "premium" badge smile Once again, IMO.
Posted By: U3piano Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/19/19 04:17 PM
Originally Posted by CyberGene
I hope you won't interpret it as nagging but I remember we often discussed with the Bulgarian dealer how the soundboard in the 9X series isn't such a big deal, we compared them side by side with the 6X series often and at least in that store it actually made the bass even more overpowering which has already been a problem IMO with the 6X series. In any case it doesn't considerably improve the sound, at least IMO. And the example is the NV10 which people seem to universally like for its sound despite no soundboard. IMO, this is a rather marketing feature to justify a higher price and eventual "premium" badge smile Once again, IMO.


I haven't tried Kawai digitals extensively, but when i tried a ca98 in a store, the first things i noticed were the nice action and the overpowered bass. But, i would be surprised if this isn't at least party fixable in the sound settings.
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/19/19 04:39 PM
Originally Posted by CyberGene
we compared them side by side with the 6X series often and at least in that store it actually made the bass even more overpowering which has already been a problem IMO with the 6X series


Just curious, did you try the same sound source on both pianos (e.g., through a VST or WAV/MP3 playback function)? I'm wondering because the DP sounds from each piano are different, and I think you yourself have mentioned before that you found the Kawai bass a bit boomy for your liking. So if you were playing the DPs' built-in sounds, you might have been noticing the specific rendering character of the DP as opposed to the effect of the soundboard itself?
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/19/19 04:56 PM
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by CyberGene
we compared them side by side with the 6X series often and at least in that store it actually made the bass even more overpowering which has already been a problem IMO with the 6X series


Just curious, did you try the same sound source on both pianos (e.g., through a VST or WAV/MP3 playback function)? I'm wondering because the DP sounds from each piano are different, and I think you yourself have mentioned before that you found the Kawai bass a bit boomy for your liking. So if you were playing the DPs' built-in sounds, you might have been noticing the specific rendering character of the DP as opposed to the effect of the soundboard itself?

These observations are based on CA95 vs CA65 and previously CA93 vs CA63. I haven't yet tested the CA98. As to the comparisons, I think I played the default main piano on both pianos, not through external sources. But these models presumably had the same piano samples.
Posted By: johanibraaten Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/19/19 06:18 PM
To me the CA98 speaker system sounded significantly better than the CA78 with a more natural acoustic signature. I can’t for really say how much that is due to superior speakers and electronics and how much it’s due to the soundboard but I don’t think the later is all gimmick. That said I wish that Kawai or Yamaha had put a full sized soundboard in their upright hybrids, an Aures or Transacoustic vithout strings so to speak. That would have been cool!
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/19/19 07:30 PM
Originally Posted by CyberGene

These observations are based on CA95 vs CA65 and previously CA93 vs CA63. I haven't yet tested the CA98. As to the comparisons, I think I played the default main piano on both pianos, not through external sources. But these models presumably had the same piano samples.


I must have misread, when you said 6x series, I was thinking you were trying them against the Yamaha 6xx DPs. Thanks for setting me straight.
Posted By: magicpiano Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/19/19 08:00 PM
@pppianomarc:
Me too have a CN37. If you still have it, I could give you the customized touch curve I currently use to see if with my curve the touch of the CN37 is more similar to that of the NV5. With my customized curve I can easily reach a broader dynamic range (and I can play consistently in the ppp/pp range) so the playing experience is much better than before.
Posted By: robinlb Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/20/19 01:49 AM
Originally Posted by johanibraaten
To me the CA98 speaker system sounded significantly better than the CA78 with a more natural acoustic signature. I can’t for really say how much that is due to superior speakers and electronics and how much it’s due to the soundboard but I don’t think the later is all gimmick. That said I wish that Kawai or Yamaha had put a full sized soundboard in their upright hybrids, an Aures or Transacoustic vithout strings so to speak. That would have been cool!


Yes, soundboard speaker on CA98 and NV5 is the main speaker of their audio system. From specification we known that they only have 2X2cm twitters and 4X8cm top speakers for high and mid-high frequency, all mid-low and super bass are coming from soundboard by transducers. This frequency range is rather important for piano sound playback, especially the source of grand piano. Soundboard speaker is an ideal solution for DP than normal subwoofer.
Im also looking forward to Y/K full sized soundboard version as your said.
Posted By: robinlb Re: Kawai NV5 - 11/20/19 02:09 AM

Originally Posted by JoBert


No, there's two things on the N3X that vibrate (in addition to the conventional speakers):

The TRS (or Tactile Response System) vibrates the keys to let the pianist feel the instrument "vibrating".

And then there's also a soundboard resonator, which is the board directly/below behind the music rest (but not the big curved board where the main speakers are placed). This board has a real transducer on it and functions as a soundboard speaker. However, it is much smaller than the Kawai DP soundboards and has more of an auxiliary character, to enhance the realism of the sound projection, than being one of the main speakers, as the Kawai soundboard is.

(At least that's what I gather from the interwebs...)


Both of N3X and N2 has this kind of soundboard resonator, and I think it's not real soundboard speaker (that's why they are named).
They only complement the resonance atmosphere of the sound, but also convey the sense of vibration to player.
The main speakers of low frequency on N3X and N2 are their 2/1 pair(s) of 16cm cone speaker.
But you cannot find them on CA98/NV5 or TA2/Aures.
Posted By: pppianomarc Update - 11/26/19 05:38 PM
It's been two weeks now since I got my NV5, so I thought I'd give you a small update and more pictures.

I couldn't be happier. My first impression was fantastic already, and yet I still find myself admiring so many aspects of it every time I sit down.

The regulation turned out to require a small adjustment. It came very tight, which I suppose is better than being too loose, but it was slightly too much so on some of the keys. Those keys, when released slowly, didn't always fully reset. My lazy RH 4 would sometimes trigger that. With the adjustment, all keys reset perfectly. I wish my 4 had such an easy fix too :-)

It was a great opportunity to admire the beautiful mechanism.


Front panel removed:

[Linked Image]

Keys and mechanism:

[Linked Image]

Top left speakers:

[Linked Image]

Mechanism detail (jack, let-off buttons, back-check catchers):

[Linked Image]

Hammer detail (with a little "wing" on the butt, presumably for the optical sensor):

[Linked Image]
Posted By: ˆTomLCˆ Re: Update - 11/26/19 05:47 PM
Wow! Glad you like it. Who did the regulation? Or did you do it yourself?
Posted By: JoBert Re: Update - 11/26/19 06:43 PM
Thanks for the pictures! Cool!
Posted By: Boboulus Re: Update - 11/26/19 07:28 PM
Amazing! Also curious about who did the adjustments and if official guy from Kawai did it did you have to pay for it? smile
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Update - 11/26/19 07:33 PM
What kind of regulation did you have to perform? It’s slightly unexpected to have to regulate a hybrid piano since the very beginning.
Posted By: robinlb Re: Update - 11/27/19 01:32 AM
Cool! Thanks for sharing the pics.
Hope your regulation goes well.
We can see the top 3 speakers on left side, and is there any opportunity to see the transducers of soundboard?
I have seen the pictures of two transducers on Aures, but I dare not open my CA98 to check them.
Posted By: Tyr Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/02/19 12:40 PM
I've placed the order for a NV5 today. Sadly i have to wait til March 2020 (if all goes wrong) because it's sold everywhere. It seems that many many ppl wanted one. crazy
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/02/19 01:17 PM
Originally Posted by Tyr
I've placed the order for a NV5 today. Sadly i have to wait til March 2020 (if all goes wrong) because it's sold everywhere. It seems that many many ppl wanted one. crazy

Wow, that’s an interesting development smile You went through so many high end pianos: Kawai CA?, CLP-685, NV-10, NU1X, now NV5. Let us know how you find it in comparison to NU1X.
Posted By: Tyr Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/02/19 01:40 PM
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by Tyr
I've placed the order for a NV5 today. Sadly i have to wait til March 2020 (if all goes wrong) because it's sold everywhere. It seems that many many ppl wanted one. crazy

Let us know how you find it in comparison to NU1X.


I played the NV5 for 2h in the store and compared the NU1X and NV5 side by side. While the NU1X is virtually in the same league (look, keyboard action, sound system etc.), it doesn't come close to the NV5. The actions are more or less the same but the NV5 is lighter (especially near the fallboard), the sound production of the NV5 is miles ahead compared to the NU1X in terms of sampling and speaker output. The sound is (and i use this term VERY rarely) absolute fantastic on the NV5. It demonstrates that the Yamaha Samples are getting old. Too clean, thin and polished.

The main reason for buying the NV5 is that the action is quieter so my wife won't get annoyed by latenight practice. I'm also thinking of adding insulation material later into the NV5 to further reduce the noise of the mechanic.

Posted By: Peddler100 Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/02/19 01:46 PM
Originally Posted by Tyr
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by Tyr
I've placed the order for a NV5 today. Sadly i have to wait til March 2020 (if all goes wrong) because it's sold everywhere. It seems that many many ppl wanted one. crazy

Let us know how you find it in comparison to NU1X.


I played the NV5 for 2h in the store and compared the NU1X and NV5 side by side. While the NU1X is virtually in the same league (look, keyboard action, sound system etc.), it doesn't come close to the NV5. The actions are more or less the same but the NV5 is lighter (especially near the fallboard), the sound production of the NV5 is miles ahead compared to the NU1X in terms of sampling and speaker output. The sound is (and i use this term VERY rarely) absolute fantastic on the NV5. It demonstrates that the Yamaha Samples are getting old. Too clean, thin and polished.

The main reason for buying the NV5 is that the action is quieter so my wife won't get annoyed by latenight practice. I'm also thinking of adding insulation material later into the NV5 to further reduce the noise of the mechanic.



How does the sound compare to the NV10?
Posted By: Tyr Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/02/19 01:59 PM
The soundboard adds a significant layer of realism in the sound image which the NV10 is lacking imho. Idk how a soundboard could be implemented to the NV10 in its current design. Maybe some sort of NV10+ with a similar cabinet like the Yamaha N2 to have enough space for that.
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/02/19 02:01 PM
I think it's exactly the same sound engine and samples as in NV10, so it's a bit odd that you find the sound so much better than NU1X and respectively you found NU1X being better than NV10. Maybe it's the soundboard?
Posted By: Tyr Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/02/19 02:06 PM
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Maybe it's the soundboard?


Yes. It does a great job here. The soundboard combined with the newer Audio Hardware plays well together. The sound over headphones is the same as i know from the NV10, so there is no difference. I advice everyone to tryout the NV5. I've never expected that it sounds that good.
Posted By: Peddler100 Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/02/19 02:09 PM
Originally Posted by Tyr
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Maybe it's the soundboard?


Yes. It does a great job here. The soundboard combined with the newer Audio Hardware plays well together. The sound over headphones is the same as i know from the NV10, so there is no difference. I advice everyone to tryout the NV5. I've never expected that it sounds that good.


How does the sound of the NV5 compare to the NU1X when using headphones?
Posted By: Tyr Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/02/19 02:56 PM
The same as NV10 vs. NU1X. I didn't liked the headphone quality of the Kawai models in the past because it was a bit muffled for whatever reason. On the NU1X the sound is crisp and clean. In every product video on YouTube the recorded sound of the Kawai models is very good, so i think my Beyerdynamic DT-990 Pro is fooling me. Who knows...
Posted By: Boboulus Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/02/19 02:59 PM
@Tyr What was you thoughts about the pedals?
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/02/19 03:16 PM
I find it interesting that the action is so much quieter on the NV5 than the N1UX.

Tyr, could you make a recording of you playing something, with the sound off so we can just hear the sound of your action? I'm wondering if there is something wrong with the action on your N1UX. Because the difference shouldn't be so big.
Posted By: U3piano Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/02/19 03:58 PM
Tyr you make that nv5 sure sound promising, can't wait to try one!
Posted By: Tyr Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/02/19 04:00 PM
Originally Posted by Boboulus
@Tyr What was you thoughts about the pedals?


The damper pedal is a bit on the heavier side due to the damper mechanism (similar to the NV10) which makes the action lighter when the pedal is pressed down. The control over the sustain effect works good. It doesn't feel uncomfortable.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/02/19 04:05 PM
Yes, I’m hoping for current NV10 owners to try this NV5 and further fill us in on the specifics.

If it turns out that even -more- NV10 owners feel that the NV5 indeed sounds ‘better’, that would be somewhat unexpected considering that the NV10 is supposed to be the flagship (sorry, Mac). smile
Posted By: Peddler100 Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/02/19 04:06 PM
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I find it interesting that the action is so much quieter on the NV5 than the N1UX.

Tyr, could you make a recording of you playing something, with the sound off so we can just hear the sound of your action? I'm wondering if there is something wrong with the action on your N1UX. Because the difference shouldn't be so big.


The NU1X does have a "Noisy" action. I don't notice it but if I was playing on headphones with someone else in the room they would definitely hear it. I wonder if Kawaii took this into account when creating the keyboard for the NV5? On an acoustic the noise factor of the keyboard doesn't really matter but on a hybrid in some cases like for Tyr it could be an issue. This could be another area, in addition to the soundboard, where Kawaii is advancing the design of hybrid DPs.
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/02/19 04:12 PM
Originally Posted by Peddler100
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I find it interesting that the action is so much quieter on the NV5 than the N1UX.

Tyr, could you make a recording of you playing something, with the sound off so we can just hear the sound of your action? I'm wondering if there is something wrong with the action on your N1UX. Because the difference shouldn't be so big.


The NU1X does have a "Noisy" action. I don't notice it but if I was playing on headphones with someone else in the room they would definitely hear it. I wonder if Kawaii took this into account when creating the keyboard for the NV5? On an acoustic the noise factor of the keyboard doesn't really matter but on a hybrid in some cases like for Tyr it could be an issue. This could be another area, in addition to the soundboard, where Kawaii is advancing the design of hybrid DPs.

What is making the acoustical action quieter, then?
Posted By: Tyr Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/02/19 04:13 PM
I don't think Kawai took it into account by intent, to have a more quiet action. It's still louder than Non-Hybrid actions but not as loud as the NV10 or NU1X one.
Posted By: johanibraaten Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/02/19 08:27 PM
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Peddler100
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I find it interesting that the action is so much quieter on the NV5 than the N1UX.

Tyr, could you make a recording of you playing something, with the sound off so we can just hear the sound of your action? I'm wondering if there is something wrong with the action on your N1UX. Because the difference shouldn't be so big.


The NU1X does have a "Noisy" action. I don't notice it but if I was playing on headphones with someone else in the room they would definitely hear it. I wonder if Kawaii took this into account when creating the keyboard for the NV5? On an acoustic the noise factor of the keyboard doesn't really matter but on a hybrid in some cases like for Tyr it could be an issue. This could be another area, in addition to the soundboard, where Kawaii is advancing the design of hybrid DPs.

What is making the acoustical action quieter, then?

They aren't, it's just that acoustic pianos are never played at such low volume where the action noise will be too apparent. The exceptions is silent/aptx/TS/Aures etc. and in these cases I think the action is as loud as in hybrids.
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/02/19 08:34 PM
There's a lot you CAN do to quiet down the action in an acoustic piano, it's just never really been much of a necessity (I guess short of silent pianos).

You could damp the cabinet, use thicker/more felts, or different materials (e.g., as Kawai does on the stop bar), etc. The geometry probably matters too; I always feel like the NU1 has a short, stiff throw, which could be part of the reason its keys clack/thump fairly loudly. A keybed with different movement characteristics could sound very different...

But all of this is making the NV5 to sound like a very enticing instrument.
Posted By: alexPixel Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/02/19 08:52 PM
wow the NV5 looks better and better, thanks @Tyr. I was more focused on a CS11 (or successor) because of the price, but I need to start saving for the extra nv5 costs.

There are three german magazine reviews out, of which I know of. Not sure how "good" this magazines are. Just to whet your appetite laugh
bought them all eek

KEYBOARDS 2019 Nr. 3 https://www.keyboards.de
german:
"das ergebnis dieses setups ist ein piano-sound, welcher derart unfassbar nah an das spektrum eines akustischen pendants heranreicht, dass ein unwissender mit verbundenen augen die fehlenden saiten wohl nicht bemerken würde."

english (google translate):
"the result of this setup is a piano sound that is so incredibly close to the spectrum of an acoustic pendants that some with blindfolded eyes would probably not notice the missing strings."

OKEY 2019-11 https://www.okey-online.com
german:
"das spielgefühl ist außerordentlich ‘natürlich’ – eben weil die tastatur direkt aus dem akustischen instrument kommt. man vergisst, dass man eigentlich an einem digitalen instrument sitzt."

english (google translate):
"the playing feeling is extremely 'natural' - because the keyboard comes directly from the acoustic instrument. you forget that you are actually sitting at a digital instrument."

and

tastenwelt 2019 nr. 6 https://www.tastenwelt.de
German:
"das resultat sind haptik und anschlagverhalten, die einem echten Klavier absolut ebenbürtig sind. ... auch das repetitionsverhalten überzeugt und bleibt nur nuancen hinter einem echten Klavier zurück."

english (google translate):
"the result is haptics and impact behavior, which are absolutely equal to a real piano. ... also the repetition behavior convinces and only nuances remain behind a real piano."
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/02/19 09:12 PM
I believe those are not reviews, but rather advertising pieces. Am I right?
If I had a penny for every review claiming ‘it’s indistinguishable from the real thing’, I’d have a lot of pennies.

That being said, I am looking forward to hands-on (genuine) user reviews.
All hyperbole aside, the instrument does seem promising. I hope our expectations are surpassed (fingers crossed).
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/02/19 09:46 PM
Originally Posted by johanibraaten
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
What is making the acoustical action quieter, then?

They aren't, it's just that acoustic pianos are never played at such low volume where the action noise will be too apparent. The exceptions is silent/aptx/TS/Aures etc. and in these cases I think the action is as loud as in hybrids.

Oh sorry. I should have been more clear. I was asking what makes the NV5 mechanical action so much quieter than the NU1X mechanical action. But I think Gombessa raised some possibilities.
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/02/19 10:50 PM
Unless the noise comes from the stop rail shock, the main source of noise is the front rail. The front rail is actually just a pin under the front part of the keys with paper punchings and a thick felt shim on top of it. That's the main shock that comes from the movement of the key. There are two options to dampen it: make the felt softer and thicker than standard which is what created the infamous mushy feeling of CA-series. Or make better body insulation and since it's a proper piano action I doubt they messed it up with thicker felts, so probably they just created a better sound insulation.

I hope Tyr won't get it as picking on him but I notice a tendency of himself to change pianos often, starting with praises and ending with replacing with the next one smile So, I'll wait until he replaces it with his next piano (which will probably be an acoustic piano since he already owned all hybrid pianos) and then he will be fair about the NV5 wink
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/02/19 10:53 PM
Originally Posted by CyberGene
So, I'll wait until he replaces it with his next piano (which will probably be an acoustic piano since he already owned all hybrid pianos) and then he will be fair about the NV5 wink

As you have experienced yourself, with a baby so young, it will be a while before the Tyr family probably can go to a real acoustic smile
Posted By: Tyr Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/02/19 10:57 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
I believe those are not reviews, but rather advertising pieces. Am I right?
If I had a penny for every review claiming ‘it’s indistinguishable from the real thing’, I’d have a lot of pennies.

That being said, I am looking forward to hands-on (genuine) user reviews.
All hyperbole aside, the instrument does seem promising. I hope our expectations are surpassed (fingers crossed).


As far as i can say, all of them are good sources for piano news with honest reviews. They are magazines, not shops (like bonners for example) that try to sell intruments.

But i agree with you, the best way to check is getting your hands on it by yourself.
Posted By: johanibraaten Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/02/19 10:57 PM
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by johanibraaten
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
What is making the acoustical action quieter, then?

They aren't, it's just that acoustic pianos are never played at such low volume where the action noise will be too apparent. The exceptions is silent/aptx/TS/Aures etc. and in these cases I think the action is as loud as in hybrids.

Oh sorry. I should have been more clear. I was asking what makes the NV5 mechanical action so much quieter than the NU1X mechanical action. But I think Gombessa raised some possibilities.

I see, sorry for misunderstanding you:)
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/02/19 11:00 PM
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by CyberGene
So, I'll wait until he replaces it with his next piano (which will probably be an acoustic piano since he already owned all hybrid pianos) and then he will be fair about the NV5 wink

As you have experienced yourself, with a baby so young, it will be a while before the Tyr family probably can go to a real acoustic smile

Ohh, wait, he didn't have a N1X. So, I stand corrected. I will wait until he replaces it with a N1X.
Posted By: Tyr Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/02/19 11:19 PM
Originally Posted by CyberGene
I hope Tyr won't get it as picking on him but I notice a tendency of himself to change pianos often, starting with praises and ending with replacing with the next one smile So, I'll wait until he replaces it with his next piano (which will probably be an acoustic piano since he already owned all hybrid pianos) and then he will be fair about the NV5 wink


Maybe i should have opened my own shop, then i would have all pianos under one roof. wink

To be honest: I just haven't planned to get a NV5 and i tried it only because it was on display in the shop. I was there to check the CS11 for the quiet keyboard action due to the situation at home. I played the CS11 in 4 different stores on different days to judge if i like it much enough to use it as a serious replacement. The NV5 is the very first of all Pianos i've ever played which gave me (literally) goose bumps from the first second playing and my interest and work into the CS11 idea went from 100 to 0. I can't describe it better to make it clear. All i can say is: If you have the chance, try it by yourself.
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/02/19 11:23 PM
Originally Posted by Tyr
The NV5 is the very first of all Pianos i've ever played which gave me (literally) goose bumps from the first second playing and my interest and work into the CS11 idea went from 100 to 0. I can't describe it better to make it clear. All i can say is: If you have the chance, try it by yourself.

Wow. The power of the soundboard, I guess!

So is your wife happy or sad? Because even if quieter than your NU1X, the NV5 can't possibly be as quiet as the CS11.
Posted By: Tyr Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/02/19 11:46 PM
It isn't as quiet as the GF2 key action. I hope it's quiet enough that it doesn't disturb her. *fingers crossed*
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/02/19 11:50 PM
Originally Posted by Tyr
It isn't as quiet as the GF2 key action. I hope it's quiet enough that it doesn't disturb her. *fingers crossed*

I sense this purchase did not go through spousal pre-clearance. shocked shocked shocked wink
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/02/19 11:56 PM
Originally Posted by Tyr
It isn't as quiet as the GF2 key action. I hope it's quiet enough that it doesn't disturb her. *fingers crossed*


Noise-Cancelling headphones? wink
Posted By: terminaldegree Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/03/19 12:02 AM
Originally Posted by Pete14
I believe those are not reviews, but rather advertising pieces. Am I right?
If I had a penny for every review claiming ‘it’s indistinguishable from the real thing’, I’d have a lot of pennies.

That being said, I am looking forward to hands-on (genuine) user reviews.
All hyperbole aside, the instrument does seem promising. I hope our expectations are surpassed (fingers crossed).


I believe I've arranged for some private time with the NV5 at NAMM in a completely quiet room, and look forward to writing a fairly comprehensive review of it.
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/03/19 12:04 AM
I'd really be interested in finding out the difference between the soundboards (and other speakers) between the NV-5 and the CA/CS pianos. Because Kawai has had soundboards for a while, and the sound engine should be identical between the NV-5 and the CA-98. I wonder if the touch response with the real keys/action is creating the perception of better sound, or if the amplification/output has been changed significantly.
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/03/19 12:22 AM
Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Originally Posted by Pete14
I believe those are not reviews, but rather advertising pieces. Am I right?
If I had a penny for every review claiming ‘it’s indistinguishable from the real thing’, I’d have a lot of pennies.

That being said, I am looking forward to hands-on (genuine) user reviews.
All hyperbole aside, the instrument does seem promising. I hope our expectations are surpassed (fingers crossed).


I believe I've arranged for some private time with the NV5 at NAMM in a completely quiet room, and look forward to writing a fairly comprehensive review of it.

Do you think you'll have access to an NU1X also there? Since the NU1X is the NV5's closest competitor, it will be interesting how these two compare besides the obvious (like soundboard). For example, we already heard on this thread that the NV5's action is quieter than than NU1X's action. It will be interesting what else you find smile
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/03/19 12:24 AM
Kawai has hinted at improvements in the past as it relates to the soundboard speaker system. But I’m not sure they’ve been very detailed as to what has been improved and to what extent. One would assume that since the very first soundboard system to the latest (NV5) there must be some subtle differences.
In terms of dimensions, it seems like the soundboard has remained the same since first released.
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/03/19 12:30 AM
Originally Posted by Pete14
Kawai has hinted at improvements in the past as it relates to the soundboard speaker system.


I recall them saying this about the Aures, that they no longer needed supplemental tweeters because they found a way to produce the high trebles just from the transducers?

But I also recall the NV-5 had a different setup than the Aures... But I'm sure you're right in that there have been improvements made for each generation.
Posted By: robinlb Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/03/19 01:01 AM
Originally Posted by Pete14
Kawai has hinted at improvements in the past as it relates to the soundboard speaker system. But I’m not sure they’ve been very detailed as to what has been improved and to what extent. One would assume that since the very first soundboard system to the latest (NV5) there must be some subtle differences.
In terms of dimensions, it seems like the soundboard has remained the same since first released.


Similar to the traditional speaker system, there are many variables and areas for improvement.

Through my experiments and tests during this period, I found that the design and selection of vibrating materials had the greatest impact on the output of the sound in the vibrating acoustics. (I got several transducers made of Onkyo)
Ordinary pine boards, MDF boards, or real piano soundboard made of spruce, with or without frames and ribs, can greatly affect sound quality.

Btw, transducer units, divider circuits and amplifiers also affect audio output.
At last, as with all speakers, the design of the cabinet can cause the same speaker unit to produce very different sounds in different boxes. Obviously, it is clear that the NV5 cabinet design has significant differences to CA98 in appearance.

This means that Kawai can easily change the soundboard spk inside for different DP grades.
Posted By: terminaldegree Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/03/19 02:01 AM
TS,

The Yamaha exhibit is at the far end of the Marriott, while the Kawai room is on the 3rd floor of the convention center. It’s a long walk, and the product displays in the main ballroom at the Marriott are a heroically loud space where you have to stand right next to someone in order to be heard, speaking normally...unless you arrive right when the show opens. My appointment at Kawai is in the evening, so an immediate A/B sonic comparison (much as I’d really like to) is impossible.
Posted By: pppianomarc Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/03/19 03:24 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
Kawai has hinted at improvements in the past as it relates to the soundboard speaker system.


I researched this topic a bit in the past, and there are some obvious (and maybe also some not so obvious) differences. If I recall correctly, the CA97/CS11 have one single transducer, while the CA98/NV5 use two transducers. Contrary to these models, which have a soundbard that is a bit smaller than standard uprights, the K300/K500 AURES use a full size soundboard and 4 transducers. I believe the latter is currently the best soundboard technology offered by Kawai, but of course cabinet and enhancements with additional speakers also affect sound so the end result cannot be judged so easily.
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/03/19 04:21 PM
I don't sweat the soundboard and 'ducers. I found that the soundboard is mostly irrelevant.

Could that be because of the less than stellar acoustics in the piano shop? Or is a soundboard really unnecessary?
Posted By: spanishbuddha Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/03/19 09:08 PM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I don't sweat the soundboard and 'ducers. I found that the soundboard is mostly irrelevant.

Could that be because of the less than stellar acoustics in the piano shop? Or is a soundboard really unnecessary?

+1 or nearly. On the older Kawai DPs, I listened to with a soundboard the sound to my ears was muddled in the mid to upper and boomy in the bass. Some people on this forum described it as boomy across the range. I have not heard the latest models, from the last couple of years. But, I agree that it is not a given that a soundboard and transducer, is going to be necessarily better than a (well designed) speaker system. In the end, just like speakers and headphones, your own ears have to decide.
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/04/19 12:47 AM
I think I've posted this before, but it's worth repeating. The soundboard speaker used by the NV5 and CA98 is the third generation of the technology, dubbed "TwinDrive". As shown in the slide below, the frequency range that can be reproduced by the soundboard has expanded with each generation of the technology.

[Linked Image]

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/04/19 01:30 AM
Originally Posted by Kawai James

[Linked Image]


James, can I preempt Pete14 and ask whether this is your way of revealing the 2019 revision of the NV10 with the 3rd gen TwinDrive soundboard? smile
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/04/19 01:44 AM
wink
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/04/19 03:47 AM
Originally Posted by Gombessa
James, can I preempt Pete14 and ask whether this is your way of revealing the 2019 revision of the NV10 with the 3rd gen TwinDrive soundboard? smile


That's a nice idea, but I cannot see it happening, for reasons already mentioned by other forum members.

Cheers,
James
x
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/04/19 04:37 AM
Originally Posted by Kawai James

That's a nice idea, but I cannot see it happening, for reasons already mentioned by other forum members.


But Kawai has already confirmed it will happen!

(In case it wasn't clear, I'm referring to this in the image you posted) wink

[Linked Image]
Posted By: robinlb Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/04/19 05:01 AM
Originally Posted by Kawai James

[Linked Image]


Thank you so much, James.
Judging from the position and style of the transducer mounting holes, I think Kawai modified and installed the first generation soundboard spk on the CA30/CA33 sales on China Market. These two models are soundboard equipped version based on CA15/CA28(CA48).
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/04/19 05:22 AM
Hello robinlb,

Originally Posted by robinlb
Judging from the position and style of the transducer mounting holes, I think Kawai modified and installed the first generation soundboard spk on the CA30/CA33 sales on China Market. These two models are soundboard equipped version based on CA15/CA28(CA48).


Ah, I believe that soundboard is a smaller version initially developed for the CA61 - a similar vintage as the CA91 (so presumably a similar/inferior frequency response), but only available in the US.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: Sweelinck Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/04/19 05:40 AM
Is the following then a correct understanding?

NV5 and CA98 have the same piano sound engine and the same audio system/speakers/soundboard.

CA98 and MP11SE have the same action.
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/04/19 06:20 AM
Originally Posted by Sweelinck
Is the following then a correct understanding?

NV5 and CA98 have the same piano sound engine and the same audio system/speakers/soundboard.


Correct.

Originally Posted by Sweelinck
CA98 and MP11SE have the same action.


Not quite:

CA98: Grand Feel II keyboard action
MP11SE (and MP11): Grand Feel (I) keyboard action

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: Sweelinck Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/04/19 06:34 AM
Thanks. What are the differences between the GF and GF2 action?
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/04/19 06:49 AM
Please refer to this post from a few years ago.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: robinlb Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/04/19 07:40 AM
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Hello robinlb,

Ah, I believe that soundboard is a smaller version initially developed for the CA61 - a similar vintage as the CA91 (so presumably a similar/inferior frequency response), but only available in the US.

Kind regards,
James
x


Yes, James, that's probably the case.
But even the addition of an older version of soundboard makes these two models competitive in the range of $2,000 DP. Compared to opponents, only a pair of full-range speakers are used for playback.
Posted By: Sweelinck Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/04/19 09:12 AM
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Please refer to this post from a few years ago.

Kind regards,
James


Awesome, thanks much.
Posted By: Peddler100 Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/04/19 11:12 AM
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by Sweelinck
Is the following then a correct understanding?

NV5 and CA98 have the same piano sound engine and the same audio system/speakers/soundboard.


Correct.

Originally Posted by Sweelinck
CA98 and MP11SE have the same action.


Not quite:

CA98: Grand Feel II keyboard action
MP11SE (and MP11): Grand Feel (I) keyboard action

Kind regards,
James
x


Does this mean that aside from the cabinet the NV5 is functionally a CA98 with a acoustic upright keyboard?
Posted By: JoBert Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/04/19 11:15 AM
Originally Posted by Peddler100
Does this mean that aside from the cabinet the NV5 is functionally a CA98 with a acoustic upright keyboard?

Yes, that point has been made.
Posted By: Boboulus Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/04/19 11:48 AM
Originally Posted by JoBert
Originally Posted by Peddler100
Does this mean that aside from the cabinet the NV5 is functionally a CA98 with a acoustic upright keyboard?

Yes, that point has been made.


Also, just a small difference is the connectors. The CA98 has 1/4" L/MONO, R Line-out whilst the NV5 has a 1/8" Stereo Line-out. Very miiiinor but still smile
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/04/19 12:23 PM
Layman walking: is there any difference between L/R 1\4” and single stereo 1\8” in terms of ‘sound’ quality?
Call me old fashioned, but I prefer the L/R 1/4”.
Posted By: KevinM Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/04/19 12:33 PM
Originally Posted by JoBert
Originally Posted by Peddler100
Does this mean that aside from the cabinet the NV5 is functionally a CA98 with a acoustic upright keyboard?

Yes, that point has been made.


I think this is a nice outcome. For those who want an acoustic action, in this case an upright action they can go for the NV5 and for those who prefer a longer pivot point over an acoustic action they can go for the CA98.

I like it that Kawai provides customers with these choices.
Posted By: Tyr Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/04/19 02:45 PM
Technically they have the same tech, but there is still a difference in the sound production quality. I haven't ordered the NV5 if it sounds like a CA98.
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/04/19 05:08 PM
You can't know what's inside just by reading the sales brochures. Two pianos can have the seemingly identical "grand natural acoustic harmonic techno roboto" action ... and still be different as night and day.

The same goes for the sound generation. It used to be common for the low-end model sport the "same" sound tech as the high-end one ... but would differ utterly in that the high-end model had enormously more sample ROM.

Yes, a Cooper Mini has the same tech as the Ferrari ... the internal combustion engine. I think the differences overshadow the similarities.

So I'm loathe to equate anything in the NV5, NV10, CA98, CA78, or CS11 pianos ... marketing-hogwash-speak notwithstanding.
Posted By: Sweelinck Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/04/19 09:48 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
Layman walking: is there any difference between L/R 1\4” and single stereo 1\8” in terms of ‘sound’ quality?
Call me old fashioned, but I prefer the L/R 1/4”.

If the stereo 1/8” is a headphone output, then the answer is probably yes. A headphone op-amp output stage generally is noisier than a line level output stage, I.e. signal-to-noise ratio will generally be inferior unless a high quality headphone amp is used in the output stage in the piano.

If you connect the headphone output to sound reinforcement like a PA or keyboard amp, the amplified noise of the output stage typically will become a problem at a significantly lower volume level than if you connect a line level output. If not, your sound source either has an above average headphone output stage or a below average line level output stage.
Posted By: JoBert Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/05/19 08:37 AM
However, the 1/8" of the NV5 is a normal "line out" output. Not a headphone output.
It has separate headphone sockets.
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/05/19 09:26 AM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
You can't know what's inside just by reading the sales brochures.


Kawai brochures are usually pretty honest, if I do say so myself. wink
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/05/19 09:29 AM
Originally Posted by JoBert
However, the 1/8" of the NV5 is a normal "line out" output. Not a headphone output.
It has separate headphone sockets.


Right, the NV5's Line Out output is a 1/8" stereo connector, but it's functionally the same as two separate (L/R) 1/4 mono connectors.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/05/19 10:23 AM
I don't disagree. Not at all.
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
You can't know what's inside just by reading the sales brochures.
Kawai brochures are usually pretty honest, if I do say so myself. wink
It's not what they say. It's what they don't say, especially as it pertains to the detailed tech that rises in these discussions.
So I maintain that you don't get much from the sales literature.
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/05/19 02:24 PM
Originally Posted by MacMacMa
It's not what they say. It's what they don't say, especially as it pertains to the detailed tech that rises in these discussions.


Alas, there’s only so many words that can fit on a page.
Posted By: U3piano Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/05/19 04:38 PM
Originally Posted by Kawai James

Alas, there’s only so many words that can fit on a page.


So use more pages.


I know, i have a talent for problem solving. blush
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/05/19 06:36 PM
It's not that the sales literature should contain more information.
Rather, people should not extrapolate the limited information in the sales brochure.
Don't take limited info to mean more than what it says.
And recognize that what little it does say is seldom meant to inform. It's meant to influence.
Posted By: Tyr Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/07/19 02:33 PM
Phew, the NV5 is sold everywhere and no one knows when it's in stock again. :<

Today i sold my NU1X for a really good price. laugh
Posted By: Boboulus Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/07/19 02:46 PM
Originally Posted by Tyr
Phew, the NV5 is sold everywhere and no one knows when it's in stock again. :<

Today i sold my NU1X for a really good price. laugh


Hope you get your NV5 soon! Looking forward to your review 😊
Posted By: ADWyatt Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/07/19 07:18 PM
Originally Posted by Tyr
Technically they have the same tech, but there is still a difference in the sound production quality. I haven't ordered the NV5 if it sounds like a CA98.


But of course, price has to be the elephant in the room for many of us. With the recent revelation that the suggested retail price for the NV5 in America will be $9,995 I'm no longer even imagining the idea of putting this unit in my home. Even if price is bargained down to something like $8,000 that's too rich for this old retiree, living on a fixed pension and social security. Having spoken with a Kawai dealer 130 miles away, however, I most certainly can afford to finance the polished ebony CA98, a handsome piano in its own right. I have no doubt that the acoustic upright touch of the NV5 would be nice, but I'm happy enough with the simulated grand feel of my CA65, so the CA98 won't give me any problems. And in those instances when I've been able to play acoustic grands I haven't had any problems adjusting.

And that brings us to tone quality. The fates only know how many times I've viewed YouTube videos boasting about the wonderful sounds of the CA98/78. And with the release of the NV5, all of a sudden they're woefully inferior? I think maybe not. In any event, this may be one of those times when it's wonderful to only be an intermediate-level pianist, rather than a professional. If I'm not sophisticated enough to tell the difference in tonal values, why buy more than I need to make me happy?

Of course if I win $500 million dollars in the Powerball, the NV5 might be something I'd consider.
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/07/19 07:24 PM
Originally Posted by ADWyatt

But of course, price has to be the elephant in the room for many of us. With the recent revelation that the suggested retail price for the NV5 in America will be $9,995 I'm no longer even imagining the idea of putting this unit in my home.


Sounds like Kawai can't launch a hybrid digital piano without creating some kind of pricing brouhaha wink

I would say should wait and see what the price actually is when the piano is finally released in the US (or whatever local market is in question).
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/07/19 07:48 PM
1. The "retail price" is always a red herring.

2. That $9995 revelation might be a false rumor.

3. Your $8000 guess is perhaps too high. People have reported paying $9000 for the more expensive NV10 ... and one member in LA reported paying only $8128.
Originally Posted by ADWyatt
With the recent revelation that the suggested retail price for the NV5 in America will be $9,995 I'm no longer even imagining the idea of putting this unit in my home. Even if price is bargained down to something like $8,000 that's too rich for this old retiree ...
Posted By: Boboulus Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/07/19 08:10 PM
In Sweden the NV5 goes for 62990SEK that is equivalent to US $6400.

https://www.digitalpiano.se/kawai-novus-nv5-hybrid-digital-piano.html

The Recommended retail price from Kawai is 63800SEK that is equivalent to US $6700.

https://kawai.se/produkt/kawai-novus-nv5/

Want it so bad! ☺️
Posted By: Tyr Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/07/19 08:56 PM
Here it's 5.990 € (6624,19$)
Posted By: ADWyatt Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/07/19 09:34 PM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
1. The "retail price" is always a red herring.

2. That $9995 revelation might be a false rumor.

3. Your $8000 guess is perhaps too high. People have reported paying $9000 for the more expensive NV10 ... and one member in LA reported paying only $8128.
Originally Posted by ADWyatt
With the recent revelation that the suggested retail price for the NV5 in America will be $9,995 I'm no longer even imagining the idea of putting this unit in my home. Even if price is bargained down to something like $8,000 that's too rich for this old retiree ...



MacMacMac, it would be nice if the $9,995 suggested American retail price for the NV5 was indeed a slyly concocted rumor, made just to get a humorous rise out of members here, but at the moment I'm not so sure. One way to verify the rumored retail is simply to contact Mr. Palmer, and I have a feeling that his response would mirror that already given. But in line with your reasoning, that price leaves me scratching my head. Why would Kawai America list this DP at $10,000 when the NV10 is only marginally more expensive? Something seems really odd here, especially when the NV5 is apparently supposed to be the competitor to Yamaha's NU1X, which can be bought here in America for $5,700 after negotiating.

I had assumed that the NV5 could be purchased for $6,500, after the usual wrangling, which would make it about $800 more expensive than the NU1X. Considering the feature set of the NV5, that price would seem to me to be about right. I could manage that by next summer, and it would be much easier if I actually got a part-time job to buy toys. (I will NOT be a people greeter at Wal-Mart. Not in ten thousand ice ages.)

But if I bought this hybrid, my major concern would be with long-term endurance and repairs. I would keep it for at least a decade, assuming I lived that long, and with all those moving parts something is bound to screw up, even though it has no strings. But I suppose it would be no different than an acoustic upright.
Posted By: Tyr Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/07/19 11:04 PM
Originally Posted by ADWyatt
[quote=Tyr]And that brings us to tone quality. The fates only know how many times I've viewed YouTube videos boasting about the wonderful sounds of the CA98/78. And with the release of the NV5, all of a sudden they're woefully inferior? I think maybe not. In any event, this may be one of those times when it's wonderful to only be an intermediate-level pianist, rather than a professional. If I'm not sophisticated enough to tell the difference in tonal values, why buy more than I need to make me happy?


I didn't liked the sound production of a CA-98 in the past way before the NV5 was on the horizon.
Posted By: ˆTomLCˆ Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/07/19 11:25 PM
The first two NV5’s were received in the Kawai USA center and already sold to a dealer/dealers. I have it from a reliable source.
🤗
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/07/19 11:58 PM
Originally Posted by ADWyatt
Of course if I win $500 million dollars in the Powerball, the NV5 might be something I'd consider.

How stubbornly practical one might be to win $500 million and not purchase one of the best grand pianos in the world for $150k or even a fantastic grand for just $50k or even just a good entry-level baby grand for $10k, but will purchase a NV5 instead?!
Posted By: robinlb Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/08/19 02:22 AM
Originally Posted by Tyr
Here it's 5.990 € (6624,19$)


Around $6,500 I think is reasonable market price.
Hope you get your NV5 soon.
Posted By: ADWyatt Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/08/19 06:57 AM
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by ADWyatt
Of course if I win $500 million dollars in the Powerball, the NV5 might be something I'd consider.

How stubbornly practical one might be to win $500 million and not purchase one of the best grand pianos in the world for $150k or even a fantastic grand for just $50k or even just a good entry-level baby grand for $10k, but will purchase a NV5 instead?!


CyberGene, my statement was just a tongue-in-cheek joke, an exaggeration meant to be humorous.

What I love about the members of this forum is that, while they are very knowledgeable about digital pianos, and most likely excellent musicians, they often have a wicked sense of humor. Especially fun are the posts I read on the first day of April, a number of which I've fallen for without realizing I was being played for a fool.

But to be directly serious about my statement, if I had assets of $500 million dollars I probably wouldn't play the piano. I'd be too busy trying to increase my net worth so I could rub elbows with the ultra-rich; it just wouldn't occur to me to simply enjoy life and smell the roses. I think I'm far happier being a middle-class retiree and enjoying my piano every day than I would be putting on airs. There certainly are wealthy people who understand the value of achieving balance in their lives, but I could never have that level of maturity.
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/08/19 07:46 AM
Ohh, you got me 😳
Posted By: jfish930 Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/08/19 09:39 PM
Hey folks,

The USD price $9995 MSRP is what Alan Palmer emailed me. And it didn’t read “expected” price, it read that this is the MSRP. He did add that dealers will price down from there.
Personally, if it’s more than $6500 I am going to have to get the CA98 instead
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/08/19 10:08 PM
It's surely not worth $10,000. Nor even $6500.
You can get a decent new upright acoustic for $6500, and a real good one for not much over $10,000.

I think both Yamaha (NU1X) and Kawai (NV5) missed the mark on this one ... at least from my perspective.
If I were to spend big on a digital piano I'd want a grand action. For an upright action ... I wouldn't bother.
Posted By: ADWyatt Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/08/19 10:40 PM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
It's surely not worth $10,000. Nor even $6500.
You can get a decent new upright acoustic for $6500, and a real good one for not much over $10,000.

I think both Yamaha (NU1X) and Kawai (NV5) missed the mark on this one ... at least from my perspective.
If I were to spend big on a digital piano I'd want a grand action. For an upright action ... I wouldn't bother.


It's kind of hard to argue with your logic, at least for me. The only hybrid piano I've played has been the NU1, whose acoustic upright action I found rather pleasing. I can't say if I'd find an acoustic grand action to be more satisfying, as I may not have the experience to properly judge the difference, but this leads me to ask questions.

For those of us with a limited budget who desire a grand action, wouldn't the CA98/78, with its simulated grand feel, be more appealing than the acoustic upright touch of pianos such as the NU1X or Novus NV5? I'm guessing here that the answer can't be made in purely black and white terms. How close does a CA digital piano really come to approximating the feel of an acoustic grand? How superior will the sound coming from a hybrid upright cabinet be compared to the more compact cabinet of a CA piano? How effective will the sustain be in a fully digital as vs. a hybrid unit? And so on and so on.

It appears to me that there are so many questions to answer that simply testing a piano in a store on a one-time basis is not the smartest thing a prospective buyer could do. Three or four visits to a piano store would be needed, I would think. On a personal basis that's not a comfortable reality for me, living in a rural U.S. area. The closest Bonners-style store is probably a good 350 miles away.
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/08/19 11:06 PM
CA78 is considerably worse feeling than the NU1X and by extension NV5. GF2 is just a regular digital action despite the wooden keys. And the escapement isn’t even a simulation of escapement. It’s a simulation of the notch feel, so they recreated what’s worse about escapement: the notch resistance, but omitted what’s best: the actual let-off that detaches the hammer and releases the hammer weight and resulting shock from your fingers. Don’t believe marketing material, CA-series are good digital instruments but they don’t feel like an acoustic action, even an upright one. If you can afford it, go for NV5 or NU1X.
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/08/19 11:12 PM
I think you're right about this ...
Originally Posted by ADWyatt
... simply testing a piano in a store on a one-time basis is not the smartest thing a prospective buyer could do. Three or four visits to a piano store would be needed, I would think.

And this is a darn shame ...
Originally Posted by ADWyatt
On a personal basis that's not a comfortable reality for me, living in a rural U.S. area. The closest Bonners-style store is probably a good 350 miles away.
Posted By: ˆTomLCˆ Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/08/19 11:25 PM
Originally Posted by ADWyatt

For those of us with a limited budget who desire a grand action, wouldn't the CA98/78, with its simulated grand feel, be more appealing than the acoustic upright touch of pianos such as the NU1X or Novus NV5? I'm guessing here that the answer can't be made in purely black and white terms.


No, not even close. A good upright action will feel better and respond better than an CA action. Now, a poor upright action is horrendous and I have taken lessons on a couple. Granted I am comparing them to my NV10. I have played new uprights, Kawai mostly, and they are very nice. I expect the NV5 will feel and respond exactly the same. Just my opinion. FWIW
Posted By: Tyr Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/08/19 11:43 PM
Originally Posted by ADWyatt
For those of us with a limited budget who desire a grand action, wouldn't the CA98/78, with its simulated grand feel, be more appealing than the acoustic upright touch of pianos such as the NU1X or Novus NV5? I'm guessing here that the answer can't be made in purely black and white terms.


I played the CS11 on different days in different stores to check if the action is pleasing enough. After playing on the NV10 and NU1X for nearly two years, the GF2 action felt a bit off. Not because it's too heavy or light. The responsiveness, the connection between your fingers and the instrument isn't as good as on a true upright/grand action. That doesn't mean that you can't have fun with a CA98 or similar Digitals and have a great playing experience with it.
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/09/19 12:12 AM
When I had the MP11 and played the NU1 regularly, I preferred the MP11 (GF1 action). Now almost all my playing had been on acoustic (grand and upright) actions and I think I've flipped, it's hard to compete with the real thing.

But that says, yes $6.5k is a bit steep, at that price I'd be seriously considering the N1X (or looking for a used NV-10) instead.
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/09/19 12:35 AM
Yes, $6500 is bit steep. In that stratum I'd go for the N1X. (It's yet to be seen whether there are any used NV10s to be had.)
Posted By: ADWyatt Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/09/19 12:37 AM
Originally Posted by CyberGene
CA78 is considerably worse feeling than the NU1X and by extension NV5. GF2 is just a regular digital action despite the wooden keys. And the escapement isn’t even a simulation of escapement. It’s a simulation of the notch feel, so they recreated what’s worse about escapement: the notch resistance, but omitted what’s best: the actual let-off that detaches the hammer and releases the hammer weight and resulting shock from your fingers. Don’t believe marketing material, CA-series are good digital instruments but they don’t feel like an acoustic action, even an upright one. If you can afford it, go for NV5 or NU1X.


I have a strong feeling that you and TomLC are exactly right in what you're both saying. When I first tested the NU1 the tactile feeling and responsiveness seemed to be more enjoyable than playing on a digital piano. I couldn't put my finger on why (pun intended), but in the different times I played the NU1 I either liked it a lot more than the Yamaha digitals I played at West Music, or I didn't notice very much difference. Perhaps the time of day, my particular mood, or the type of music I played influenced my feelings.

To sum everything up on a personal basis, as I've done before I am again going to have to bide my time on a purchasing decision. I want to keep my next piano for at least a decade, although I think at 80 years old I will have bought my last piano. I should be able to test the NV5 next April or May in Chicago or St. Louis, and if I love it perhaps I should just wait until I can comfortably afford to put it in my home.

There's one thing I'm worried about though. I could be so overwhelmed with happiness at seeing the NV5 in my piano room that I might keel over from cardiac arrest. My brother would inherit it, sell it for a hundred dollars, buy a bunch of 4k movies, store them in his library and six months later say, "When did I buy these?"
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/09/19 12:37 AM
Originally Posted by Gombessa
When I had the MP11 and played the NU1 regularly, I preferred the MP11 (GF1 action). Now almost all my playing had been on acoustic (grand and upright) actions and I think I've flipped, it's hard to compete with the real thing.

But that says, yes $6.5k is a bit steep, at that price I'd be seriously considering the N1X (or looking for a used NV-10) instead.

Yes, at that price, I might be thinking about the trade-off between NV5 and N1X as:
Pro- soundboard, authentic damper pedal, proper UI control panel
Cons- upright keyboard action, lack of binaural sound

We'll have to see if that is enough. But on the real release, the price at the dealer might fall and then there would be the additional pro of lower cost.
Posted By: Peddler100 Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/09/19 12:49 AM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
It's surely not worth $10,000. Nor even $6500.
You can get a decent new upright acoustic for $6500, and a real good one for not much over $10,000.

I think both Yamaha (NU1X) and Kawai (NV5) missed the mark on this one ... at least from my perspective.
If I were to spend big on a digital piano I'd want a grand action. For an upright action ... I wouldn't bother.


I think the NU1X fits a segment of the market that wants an acoustic action and like me would probably prefer an acoustic piano but needs the silent option and doesn't want to spend $8,000 plus. When I was looking the N1X hadn't been announced so the next hybrid was going to be over $10,000. To some people its worth the extra for the grand action but for myself the piano is like golf, the equipment isn't the issue. smile A grand action at my ability level wouldn't have a significant impact on my playing and even if the N1X was out when I purchased the NU1X I would have looked but probably wouldn't have spent the extra $$ on it. This is the market that the NU1X serves. As for the NV5 if that MSRP holds at $10,000 (Yes, I am rounding) and the street price for the foreseeable future ends up around $8,000 then it would make sense to look at the N1X, still the NV5 has some distinct advantages.

Or to put it another way I wouldn't know what to do with a grand piano action, all these techniques that are discussed here are way over my head so why pay extra for it? With the NU1X I still get the way cool retro Radio Shack controls and the nostalgia of buying a separate WiFi adapter.
Posted By: Tyr Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/09/19 12:56 AM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Yes, $6500 is bit steep. In that stratum I'd go for the N1X. (It's yet to be seen whether there are any used NV10s to be had.)


Too bad that you are located in the US. I have seen an offer on eBay Germany for a brand new NV10 (never unboxed) for 5.900 € (regular price: 8.900 €)
Posted By: ˆTomLCˆ Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/09/19 01:39 AM
You may not have to wait until April. As I said, they are coming in to the US already. The first two were already sold to dealers. I don't know where in the US the dealers are. But Kawai headquarters is by Los Angeles. Someone just said he heard from Alan Palmer who works at Kawai in LA and he said the list price is $6500. It may difficult to negotiate a price lower than that for a while though. Also, I see folks throwing out prices for the NUiX. I went to a Yamaha dealer in Orange County last June to see the N1X and the NU1x. I wasn't going to buy a piano, but I didn't tell the nice lady at the desk that. I liked the NU1x, and played around with it a bit. Noticing the loud note issue too. By the time I was thanking her and ready to leave, she was whispering $4300 including delivery. So if you negotiate you should not be paying more than $5000 US for an NU1x.
Posted By: Pianoguy723 Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/15/19 08:22 AM
The nv5 is interesting, but why would someone spend $6500 on an nv5 when they could get a K200 ATX3 upright for not much more (properly negotiated) and have a real piano? The atx3 sounds fantastic and to me having played basically all the kawai and yamaha digitals and hybrids back to back, the atx3 system gave the best sound and most realistic auditory and dynamic feeling of all of them. If I didnt specifically want the millenium grand action of the nv10, I would have definitely picked up a k200 atx3, or k300 atx3 aures. Surely they will have to sell it lower than $6500 to offer a compelling price difference between their atx3 line unless you mean $6500msrp not smp.
Posted By: pianogabe Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/15/19 10:08 AM
Originally Posted by Pianoguy723
The nv5 is interesting, but why would someone spend $6500 on an nv5 when they could get a K200 ATX3 upright for not much more (properly negotiated) and have a real piano?

I wonder about this too. Is the sensor system the same?
Posted By: robinlb Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/15/19 10:54 AM
Originally Posted by Pianoguy723
The nv5 is interesting, but why would someone spend $6500 on an nv5 when they could get a K200 ATX3 upright for not much more (properly negotiated) and have a real piano? The atx3 sounds fantastic and to me having played basically all the kawai and yamaha digitals and hybrids back to back, the atx3 system gave the best sound and most realistic auditory and dynamic feeling of all of them. If I didnt specifically want the millenium grand action of the nv10, I would have definitely picked up a k200 atx3, or k300 atx3 aures. Surely they will have to sell it lower than $6500 to offer a compelling price difference between their atx3 line unless you mean $6500msrp not smp.


Only K-Aures can be compared with NV5, ATX3 doesn't have soundboard spks.
It seems that only K300Aures is sold in US, and is more expensive.
Although I think it's better than NV5 overall, but NV5 still has some advantages, such as lighter weight and no tuning maintenance of AP.
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/15/19 11:04 AM
You don’t need soundboard speakers on a silent piano. It has a real soundboard and you can use it as a real acoustic piano that it is 🙂
Posted By: robinlb Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/15/19 11:26 AM
Originally Posted by CyberGene
You don’t need soundboard speakers on a silent piano. It has a real soundboard and you can use it as a real acoustic piano that it is 🙂


These are two concepts.
ATX3 and Aures represent two different digi modification on AP.
The latter covers the former's silenct function already, but also has the ability to play digital audio sources through the soundboard speakers. Strictly speaking, driven the soundboard of K300 by digital electricity.

That's why I said we can compare Aures to NV5 butq not the other silent piano.
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/15/19 11:35 AM
Yeah, I know the Aures and TransAcoustic but honestly can’t see a reason for their existence 🙄 You can play digital sounds through the soundboard speakers but why do you need that on a piano that is mainly an acoustic piano? If you’re so much after digital sound and different patches, why would you buy an acoustic piano in the first place. It’s just a very odd concept. Silent pianos are OK, as are hybrid pianos and regular digital pianos. But TransAcoustic/Aures...
Posted By: U3piano Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/15/19 11:35 AM
Originally Posted by CyberGene
You don’t need soundboard speakers on a silent piano. It has a real soundboard and you can use it as a real acoustic piano that it is 🙂


Well, yes that is true. But you can't adjust the volume, or choose a different piano sound etc.

Originally Posted by CyberGene
Yeah, I know the Aures and TransAcoustic but honestly can’t see a reason for their existence 🙄 You can play digital sounds through the soundboard speakers but why do you need that on a piano that is mainly an acoustic piano? If you’re so much after digital sound and different patches, why would you buy an acoustic piano in the first place. It’s just a very odd concept. Silent pianos are OK, as are hybrid pianos and regular digital pianos. But TransAcoustic/Aures...


I would love it, for example you could choose strings (as in violin) etc. to accompany the acoustic piano sound.

If they weren't so expensive i'd buy me one.
Posted By: terminaldegree Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/15/19 01:20 PM
Originally Posted by Pianoguy723
The nv5 is interesting, but why would someone spend $6500 on an nv5 when they could get a K200 ATX3 upright for not much more (properly negotiated) and have a real piano?


Here’s one scenario: When visiting family, I often don’t get the luxury of being able to stop practicing for a couple weeks at a time. However, both sets of parents live in an inhospitable environment (in one case, right on the ocean, in the other, very humid with windows open each morning) for an acoustic piano, and they don’t want the piano to take up more space than absolutely necessary in a size-limited living space. At the same time, I want an instrument with as few compromises as possible.
Posted By: JoBert Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/15/19 01:37 PM
It's always funny when people assert that a certain product doesn't make sense, when at the same time the product is on back order because so many people want it. 🙄

Too many people seem to assume, that whatever opinion (of a product, in this case) they have, surely must be the only sane/rational opinion, and everyone who doesn't share it must be misguided.

Did I write "it's funny". Actually, it's tiresome... 😒
Posted By: ˆTomLCˆ Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/15/19 01:55 PM
Some of these price speculations are inaccurate. A K300atx3 is comparable in price to a NV10. The Aures is much more expensive.
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/15/19 02:27 PM
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Yeah, I know the Aures and TransAcoustic but honestly can’t see a reason for their existence 🙄 You can play digital sounds through the soundboard speakers but why do you need that on a piano that is mainly an acoustic piano? If you’re so much after digital sound and different patches, why would you buy an acoustic piano in the first place. It’s just a very odd concept. Silent pianos are OK, as are hybrid pianos and regular digital pianos. But TransAcoustic/Aures...

The idea is not to play a digital simulation of the piano's own sound through the soundboard. In fact the sound generators of both do not have a voice with those particular pianos. Instead, the sound generators are of other, mostly grand pianos. SK EX, CFX, Bosendorfer, etc. Those are not sounds that would come from the strings of these pianos without the digital part.
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/15/19 02:39 PM
If one is a fan of digital pianos and believes sampled grand pianos are good enough, why would he want to control them through a real upright piano? The Aures simply doesn’t make sense to me. The NV5 does the same in a compact body.
Posted By: johanibraaten Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/15/19 02:44 PM
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Yeah, I know the Aures and TransAcoustic but honestly can’t see a reason for their existence 🙄 You can play digital sounds through the soundboard speakers but why do you need that on a piano that is mainly an acoustic piano? If you’re so much after digital sound and different patches, why would you buy an acoustic piano in the first place. It’s just a very odd concept. Silent pianos are OK, as are hybrid pianos and regular digital pianos. But TransAcoustic/Aures...

I haven't tried an Aures but I have tried some TransAcoustics and I think they are brilliant and strongly consider one as my next instrument and here is why: I live in an apartment and the main problem with an acoustic instrument is loudness, both for me and my neighbors. With a TransAcoustic/Aures I can adapt the volume and still get a very pleasant piano playing experience with real string resonance that doesn't come from speakers. I can also play silent with headphones if I wand AND I still have a proper acoustic piano that work as such when I need, or want it. I occasionally rehears at home with instrumentalists and singers and sometimes only an acoustic instrument will do. The possibilities to blend the acoustic piano sound with other sounds is also a nice feature, just as U3piano describes. The TransAcoustics and Aures just serves more desired playing situations than any other pianos IMO.
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/15/19 02:44 PM
Originally Posted by JoBert
It's always funny when people assert that a certain product doesn't make sense, when at the same time the product is on back order because so many people want it. 🙄

Is that a reply to me? If so, can you back your claim Aures is on back order. I don’t believe that.
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/15/19 02:48 PM
Both K-300 Aures and K-500 Aures are in stock on Thomann. I guess you were not responding to me or you were wrong.
Posted By: Pianoguy723 Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/15/19 07:28 PM
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Both K-300 Aures and K-500 Aures are in stock on Thomann. I guess you were not responding to me or you were wrong.


I think he is responding to me? All I said was NV5 should sell for a lot less than $6500 otherwise a k200 atx3 (which can be had around $7ks) might make more sense. Tom you are right the atx3 aures is more expensive: you probanly couldnt get it for less than $10 or 11ks. If the list price on nv5 is 6500 it looks like it eventually will sell for around $5k which I have heard in the $5s is where it will be selling.

Otherwise it would be like saying you could have a nv10 for $10k or a full acoustic grand with atx3 silent system for $11.5k. I would imagine most people spend a couple extra bucks a month and buy the real grand except for the few who live in tiny shoeboxes or who already have a real grand and just want a practice piano for their spare room/basement.

Hard to say who he is responding to smile the good news is: I have played almost all of the hybrids that are out now and the top end digitals: and I can safely say the options we have now are unbelievably good,and unthinkable 10 years ago to have this many excellent choices to closely simulate a piano experience through the quiet of heedphones. If you had to buy just 1 hybrid to do it all: the k300 atx3 aures is my favorite overall from a dynamics and exciting to play standpoint: and it will be interesting to see if the nv5 can capture that same excitement and sound with its soundboard system.
Posted By: Tyr Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/15/19 09:47 PM
Quote
and it will be interesting to see if the nv5 can capture that same excitement and sound with its soundboard system.


It had excited me so much that i came back to kawai for the 3rd time. :P
Posted By: jfish930 Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/16/19 12:34 AM
Hello TomLC,

I received an email response from Alan Palmer dated 12/4 stating the NV5 MSRP in the US will be $9995. He went on to say “as you know, dealers can work off of that”.

Once I received that email, I figured I’d end up regrettably going with CA98, but I see your above information reads that you heard Alan Palmer state list price is $6500. If that is the case, I may wait until the NV5 becomes available.

Can you advise if by “list price” you mean MSRP or does that mean the dealers “discounted” price? Also can you kindly advise if your source is reliable? I don’t know why Alan Palmer would email me a different MSRP figure.

Thank you! 🙂
Posted By: ˆTomLCˆ Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/16/19 01:08 AM
jfish, I'm afraid that wasn't me. I didn't talk to Alan Palmer. I did speculate that it will likely sell for about $6500. NV10 MSRP was around $12/13,000 when it first came out. But folks immediately began buying it for under $10,000.
Posted By: robinlb Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/16/19 01:24 AM
Originally Posted by johanibraaten

I haven't tried an Aures but I have tried some TransAcoustics and I think they are brilliant and strongly consider one as my next instrument and here is why: I live in an apartment and the main problem with an acoustic instrument is loudness, both for me and my neighbors. With a TransAcoustic/Aures I can adapt the volume and still get a very pleasant piano playing experience with real string resonance that doesn't come from speakers. I can also play silent with headphones if I wand AND I still have a proper acoustic piano that work as such when I need, or want it. I occasionally rehears at home with instrumentalists and singers and sometimes only an acoustic instrument will do. The possibilities to blend the acoustic piano sound with other sounds is also a nice feature, just as U3piano describes. The TransAcoustics and Aures just serves more desired playing situations than any other pianos IMO.


Yes, it represents the direction of the future, the more versatile so-called hybrid ADP.
At the same time, I believe the digital drive technology of soundboard by transducers and their amp will be further developed to better simulate the vibration of strings to the soundboard.
Posted By: jfish930 Re: Kawai NV5 - 12/16/19 01:38 AM
Ok thanks Tom!
Posted By: Boboulus Re: Kawai NV5 - 01/01/20 06:24 PM
Happy New Years!

So any owners of the NV5 that has any updated impressions? Nice to know if it stills feels as good once you get used to it or have any new findings? smile
Posted By: Tyr Re: Kawai NV5 - 01/01/20 07:42 PM
My unit has arrived at the store where i ordered it. Now we're waiting for the delivery. It should be here within the next two weeks.
Posted By: Boboulus Re: Kawai NV5 - 01/01/20 08:33 PM
Originally Posted by Tyr
My unit has arrived at the store where i ordered it. Now we're waiting for the delivery. It should be here within the next two weeks.


What a way to start the new decade! smile

Let us know your thought once you get it.
Posted By: pppianomarc Re: Kawai NV5 - 01/03/20 01:25 AM
Originally Posted by Boboulus
So any owners of the NV5 that has any updated impressions? Nice to know if it stills feels as good once you get used to it or have any new findings? smile


Yes, to me it still feels just as good. I have adapted to the touch that initially appeared a bit heavier than my previous digital, and also to the sustain pedal. I planned to modify the pedal, but didn't do it in the end. It's a joy to sit down at the NV5 and practice or play. No regrets. I would buy it again for sure!

New findings? Not much, except I wondered what firmware version I have. I tried the method used on the NV10, and it didn't work. Instead, the NV5 is like the ATX3/AURES family. I imagine it shares quite some technology with those. For reference, my firmware version is V1.02j (as expected) and the "magic" sequence to see it is:

- hold down left and right pedal
- power on
- when Kawai logo appears, hold down the highest E,G,B keys
Posted By: jve Re: Kawai NV5 - 01/03/20 11:28 AM
Originally Posted by pppianomarc
For reference, my firmware version is V1.02j (as expected) and the "magic" sequence to see it is:

- hold down left and right pedal
- power on
- when Kawai logo appears, hold down the highest E,G,B keys

Really? I was thinking about the amount of ridicule the AvantGrand UI has received recently, and now this? grin
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Kawai NV5 - 01/03/20 11:40 AM
It’s just one of the factory check modes - not a commonly used (user oriented) function.

James
x
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Kawai NV5 - 01/03/20 11:45 AM
Shouldn't this be accompanied by a special magic incantation? smile
Originally Posted by pppianomarc
... the "magic" sequence to see it is:
- hold down left and right pedal
- power on
- when Kawai logo appears, hold down the highest E,G,B keys
Posted By: jve Re: Kawai NV5 - 01/03/20 12:10 PM
Originally Posted by Kawai James
It’s just one of the factory check modes - not a commonly used (user oriented) function.

Good point -- I just couldn't resist the opportunity of being tongue-in-cheek.

I'm sure the NV5 is a great instrument -- will check it out as soon as it arrives to these shores.
Posted By: rubycon 5 Re: Kawai NV5 - 01/15/20 08:51 AM
Ok Team,

Ive pushed the button and ordered the NV5... still not entirely 100%.... but this is the journey...maybe you can tell me if you think I arrived at the right destination.

Been playing for around 10 years after I bought a Yamaha digital for my 40th birthday with a )% loan from the UK arts council (Thankyou!). Im lucky enough to have a great teacher (like Joyce Grenfell, the headmistress in the old st trinians films) who works at the nearby university and puts up with me being late/forgetting lessons/not practice/showing up on the wrong day....if I cross the line the next lesson I have to bring a bottle of wine.

By grade 3 Id gotten bored of classical and outgrown the Yamaha. Even back then Id felt that Kawai had a better feel but the sound needed work...in Denmark street I wondered into Rose Morris just for a play to be greeted by the cs10... a digital piano that actually looked like a piano, had a great action and the EX piano (the EX takes lot of stick - it has been loving referred to as a drama queen. After playing the silky smooth sophisticated SK EX, Id probably go along with that). In between time Id been to Tom Lees (?) in Hong Kong, and the top floor of a shopping centre that was entirely Kawai ….and extremely intimidating.... I do public speaking etc on a regular basis (hopefully okay at it) but I didn't have the nerve to sit down and play.... like going into one of the handbag shops in milan on via montepolitan with my best travelling student rucksack on. Lucky there was a k5 a few floors down which I loved but too expensive and wouldn't fit into my living room....the current CS11 (Thankyou Bonners for letter me trade up twice) lives between the fire and the window....One of the reasons I bought a digital - I bought an old piano for £90 from Oxfam with dreams of learning to play only to realise very quick this was irreparable and need to go to its last destination the dump...as it feel on of the truck onto the pile and broke apart (in movie slomo) I felt like id committed murder and was ashamed to be the last owner of such an old instrument.

So ive been very happy with the CS11. it is like having 3 or 4 pianos in one - it doesn't seem to get much airplay but actually been able to tune/change the piano for the music youre playing must be a key benefit of digital instruments ? Trying to get into Jazz.....still trying ! meant that the different piano tweaks work well. In Tom Lees I bought Japanese imported copy of piano sheet music for final fantasy....looked at it half the way home...prompting derision from my partner (you just sat there drinking whiskey and eating nuts...the cabin crew were asking me (my partner) is he a musician (nope) or a composer (definitely not!), making my partner remark "youre a just pretentious idiot sometimes!" (probably true). but the SK5 sample set complements Eternal memories really well. (youre just going to have to take my word for it.... someday when a Saturday stretches out before me like a desert Ill take the time to record all the songs I learned on this journey.) The boxy sound that you get.... move it away from the wall, give it space to breathe.

Then I played an N1X in the Yamaha centre in Wardour street and it was obvious that things were moving on....the collaboration with onkyo that kawai had formed felt like the 4k tvs that were going to 8k. So just as Instagram is perhaps putting more emphasis on the appearance of food than the taste, youtube etc looks at everything apart from how connected you are to the instrument - im sure that I sound like a grumpy old throwback from the 20th century. But even from a short play it felt extremely responsive, versatile and gave me a few more strings to my bow....fortunately it was out of my price tag and my short term memory isn't as good as it used to be so I returned faithful to my cs11 and continued playing.... about that..... im not particularly good... in our lessons we do pieces songs refine touch and have fun but im not driven to excellence and if the song isn't inspiring me then it gets dumped. the current piece going to take 6 months is josh cohens paranoid android...definitely the hardest piece...roundabout grade 7 a few friends have suggested. not sure if ill finish it...pretty tough going but its about the journey....and if the music inspires keep walking.....and drinking whiskey...and eating nuts.

The NV10 appeared. pipedream! Doesn't even look like a piano. Also I need my left kidney just in case the whiskey does the right one in..... and then, that NV5 demo appeared on youtube, I love you Sean O'Shea but Mina Koike's playing would launch a thousand ships. The NV5 is in short supply, everywhere! Shoutouts to the Pianoman shop in Leeds (great guy who is passionate about his product, Forsyths in Manchester and the Bonners team at Milton Keynes.

So its been strange... you know how this story ends but the nv5 didn't initially bowl me over....its been a tough year with work and I haven't been playing as much as I used to. Also the NV5 is.... small. Its a modern design that has won awards that a 20th century throwback needed to get used to. After my first play, I was really sold. But it did make me sit down, play and practice and start banging my head again that josh cohen piece again. Cue round two... liked it a lot better. Love my CS 11 but the nv5 is more responsive. Im not talking about heavy or light....to be honest with volume controls and dynamic settings Im not even sure what they mean. the easiest difference is the harder, slight higher base for the key depress on the nv5 compared to cs11. this creates a bit more certainty / reassurance for me when playing which then translates to be able to being able to gauge subtle dynamic changes better. Flitting between the cs11 and the nv 5 and nv10 for 2 hours I realised that its definitely a step up. The sound is more difficult to evaluate for me. Shops are weird environments, plus youre never sure what gremlins have been fiddling with the setting before you arrived. so this could be my imagination but the nv10 seems to have a few additional layers of sampling at the top end of attack. With fortissimo everything changes, not just the attack, volume, and swell. In some respects it feels more true than the nv5 but these are things that you wont hit 90-95% of the time. Also the design means the timing of the samples can be phased because of the different distances to your ear and the speakers on the top plate and that changes with different dynamics. The keyboard on the NV10 feels exactly like the Blunther on the grand that I practice lesson. The depressed and release in the same way. On the NV5 the release of the keys is just as fast. Of note is that they don't "reverberate" following the release like the keys on a grand do and even the CS11 to a degree. After 2 hours I felt truly connected to the NV5. Id like to know a bit more about the sound and settings. It is extremely responsive and the design grows on you as you play it. By the end everything about screams play me. Could I continue using my CS11, absolutely, am I turning 50, for sure, would I buy the NV10 if I could afford it, taunting but true

When I bought the CS11 I played every day for 3 weeks and only stopped when we went away for the weekend (and missed it!). The SK EX was such a big step up. The change in keyboard on the NV5 feels like a step up...but perhaps not quite as big.... but I had fun, felt connected and I know that it would improve my playing. Im hoping that the sound improves as I get used to the settings and adjust for a home environment. Its more money that I ever thought that id be spending on a piano and at a price that I thought surely Id be getting an acoustic - different story. To be honest Im still a little apprehensive, excited, curious and waiting.

Disclaimer all of the opinions are just opinions. I have no sound engineering training and very limited musical ability. I prefer Kawai to Yamaha to Casio but that's just me and in fact the way the NV5 keyboard feels set a little bit higher set reminds me of my old Yamaha but that was the only.
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Kawai NV5 - 01/15/20 09:05 AM
Hello rubycon 5, a warm welcome to the forum!

Many thanks for sharing your journey - I thoroughly enjoyed your introductory post. wink

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: Tyr Re: Kawai NV5 - 01/15/20 09:18 AM
Congratulations. I'm desperately waiting for my unit. It's less than 50km away from me and the piano movers take up unnecessary time for the delivery. mad
Posted By: Nordomus Re: Kawai NV5 - 01/15/20 09:11 PM
Please share your thoughts about action compared to other top digital pianos. I'm very curious about NV5 and it's keyboard feel, repetition etc.
Posted By: Tyr Re: Kawai NV5 - 01/16/20 11:20 AM
Got my NV5 today. I'm currently at work so i can't write much about it. Will write down my first impressions later. smile
Posted By: Boboulus Re: Kawai NV5 - 01/16/20 11:32 AM
Originally Posted by Tyr
Got my NV5 today. I'm currently at work so i can't write much about it. Will write down my first impressions later. smile


Amazing!! Tell us everything as soon as you can smile
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop Re: Kawai NV5 - 01/16/20 11:40 AM
Originally Posted by Boboulus
Originally Posted by Tyr
Got my NV5 today. I'm currently at work so i can't write much about it. Will write down my first impressions later. smile


Amazing!! Tell us everything as soon as you can smile

Tyr, And we want a report from the wife after the first time you play it with headphones when she is sleeping! wink
Posted By: JoBert Re: Kawai NV5 - 01/16/20 12:17 PM
Originally Posted by Tyr
Got my NV5 today. I'm currently at work so i can't write much about it. Will write down my first impressions later. smile

Congrats!

As the first owner here in the forum (that I'm aware of), you now you'll have to create a "Kawai Novus NV5 - Hands On" thread, right?
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Kawai NV5 - 01/16/20 12:25 PM
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Boboulus
Originally Posted by Tyr
Got my NV5 today. I'm currently at work so i can't write much about it. Will write down my first impressions later. smile


Amazing!! Tell us everything as soon as you can smile

Tyr, And we want a report from the wife after the first time you play it with headphones when she is sleeping! wink


Huh? grin
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop Re: Kawai NV5 - 01/16/20 12:30 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Boboulus
Originally Posted by Tyr
Got my NV5 today. I'm currently at work so i can't write much about it. Will write down my first impressions later. smile
Amazing!! Tell us everything as soon as you can smile
Tyr, And we want a report from the wife after the first time you play it with headphones when she is sleeping! wink
Huh? grin

Sigh... if you have to explain a joke... LOL. (To catch you up, Tyr bought this NV5 because the keyboard action of his NU1X was keeping up his wife and new baby from the next room even using headphones...)
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Kawai NV5 - 01/16/20 12:42 PM
Oh, I see. wink
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Kawai NV5 - 01/16/20 01:10 PM
It initially seemed overpriced at 5900 EUR. But when I read that this included the 20% highway-robbery tax, then it's 4900 EUR bare.
Not bad at all (the piano, not the tax, that is).

Compare that to the 6800 EUR paid (plus tax) for the NV10 two years ago (Deus_Ex_Machina).

I mention this because the question arose: Why not the NV10 (or other models)?
Nowhere was the large price difference mentioned, and 1900 EUR is a big difference, eh?
Posted By: ˆTomLCˆ Re: Kawai NV5 - 01/16/20 02:57 PM
4900 Euro? That’s 1000 Euros less than we speculated. No wonder it is sold out. I bet it will cost more than that in the US.
Posted By: sleutelbos Re: Kawai NV5 - 01/16/20 03:01 PM
Originally Posted by TomLC
4900 Euro? That’s 1000 Euros less than we speculated. No wonder it is sold out. I bet it will cost more than that in the US.


Aan I missing a trick? Surely I am not the only one actually paying tax on instruments?
Posted By: JoBert Re: Kawai NV5 - 01/16/20 03:05 PM
Originally Posted by sleutelbos
Originally Posted by TomLC
4900 Euro? That’s 1000 Euros less than we speculated. No wonder it is sold out. I bet it will cost more than that in the US.


Aan I missing a trick? Surely I am not the only one actually paying tax on instruments?

You are missing the fact that in the US, people are used to quoting prices without sales tax. That's because shops also show prices without sales tax (for many reasons). So the many US members here have to remember to calculate the price-before-tax from all prices that we Europeans quote (because we are used to quote prices including tax, because that is what our shops do), before they compare our prices to theirs.

EDIT: At Thomann, the German price is currently 5990€ including tax, that's 5033€ before tax.
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop Re: Kawai NV5 - 01/16/20 03:07 PM
Originally Posted by sleutelbos
Originally Posted by TomLC
4900 Euro? That’s 1000 Euros less than we speculated. No wonder it is sold out. I bet it will cost more than that in the US.
Aan I missing a trick? Surely I am not the only one actually paying tax on instruments?

In the US, taxes on goods are assessed by the individual states. So a common "trick" is to buy goods across state-lines. You live in, say, Nevada, and buy the item from a piano store in California. The store in California doesn't collect the tax for Nevada, so it charges you the price without taxes and ships you the piano in Nevada. In theory, you are supposed to self-report the purchase then in Nevada and pay Nevada the taxes. But few do this. Instead, most often, no taxes are paid, since Nevada isn't going to know you bought a piano unless you tell them. So that's why you might see people from the US sometimes comparing prices without taxes.
Posted By: sleutelbos Re: Kawai NV5 - 01/16/20 03:12 PM
Ah, thanks guys. That indeed won't work too well where I live. smile
Posted By: ChrisGoesPiano Re: Kawai NV5 - 01/16/20 03:15 PM
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

In the US, taxes on goods are assessed by the individual states. So a common "trick" is to buy goods across state-lines. You live in, say, Nevada, and buy the item from a piano store in California. The store in California doesn't collect the tax for Nevada, so it charges you the price without taxes and ships you the piano in Nevada. In theory, you are supposed to self-report the purchase then in Nevada and pay Nevada the taxes. But few do this. Instead, most often, no taxes are paid, since Nevada isn't going to know you bought a piano unless you tell them. So that's why you might see people from the US sometimes comparing prices without taxes.


You could go to jail for this over here smile
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Kawai NV5 - 01/16/20 03:17 PM
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by sleutelbos
Originally Posted by TomLC
4900 Euro? That’s 1000 Euros less than we speculated. No wonder it is sold out. I bet it will cost more than that in the US.
Aan I missing a trick? Surely I am not the only one actually paying tax on instruments?

In the US, taxes on goods are assessed by the individual states. So a common "trick" is to buy goods across state-lines. You live in, say, Nevada, and buy the item from a piano store in California. The store in California doesn't collect the tax for Nevada, so it charges you the price without taxes and ships you the piano in Nevada. In theory, you are supposed to self-report the purchase then in Nevada and pay Nevada the taxes. But few do this. Instead, most often, no taxes are paid, since Nevada isn't going to know you bought a piano unless you tell them. So that's why you might see people from the US sometimes comparing prices without taxes.

That's pretty interesting! Wondering how come that's not a problem for the US. Seems like a loophole. We've previously discussed VAT and why it's actually good for the economy.
Posted By: ˆTomLCˆ Re: Kawai NV5 - 01/16/20 03:18 PM
Of course the shipping cost will probably exceed the sales tax on a piano.

Oh, (edit). IIRC; The buyer is legally responsible to pay the tax on his own as Tyrone said. You wouldn’t want to get caught.
Posted By: Zack C Re: Kawai NV5 - 01/16/20 03:40 PM
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
So that's why you might see people from the US sometimes comparing prices without taxes.

A bigger reason for me is that sales tax varies from state to state (and sometimes even region to region). I'd rather see US prices reported without taxes so I can compare apples to apples and then add local tax to get the equivalent price in my location.
Posted By: Douglasrobert Re: Kawai NV5 - 02/18/20 05:01 AM
How much this model
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Kawai NV5 - 02/18/20 05:04 AM
Originally Posted by Douglasrobert
How much this model


May I ask where you are based?

The NV5 retail price may vary depending on your location, therefore please contact the subsidiary/distributor in your country for the most accurate pricing/availability information.

https://www.kawai-global.com/distribution/

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: aprileon Re: Kawai NV5 - 02/22/20 08:29 PM
Hi guys,

a couple of weeks ago I got a Novus NV5 and I have to say it is quite amazing. I went to the piano store to buy a real upright and ended up with the NV5. The sound quality is so incredible, the reproduction is very spatial and it feels really alive when playing. I absolutely love it.

However, I have a problem with the pedals. Actually a couple of problems. The left and middle pedal emit a click - it sounds like a micro switch used in industrial machines. It is always audible when playing due to its high frequencies. Very annoyingly, it is especially audible when using the una corda and playing pianissimo. I noticed the I started using the pedal less because of that, which is not good at all. The other problem is the right pedal, which is creaking. It is also too heavy. I made a short clip to demonstrate the noises: https://vimeo.com/393148575

I had a technician coming by and he checked it. He confirmed that is a micro switch and also found it much too loud. He called Kawai Germany but they could not say much, as apparently this was not an issue yet. My question to the other NV5 owners - do you experience the same pedal noises? Does anybody know if there are silent micro switches on the market that could be exchanged? Thanks.
Posted By: David B Re: Kawai NV5 - 02/22/20 09:16 PM
@ aprileon, I can see how that would be annoying. It will be interesting to hear from other NV5 owners. There should be a fix for the sustain pedal (both the noise and the weight). What did the technician say about that?

God Bless,
David
Posted By: navindra Re: Kawai NV5 - 02/22/20 09:24 PM
Congrats aprileon! This is definitely not normal and definitely solvable by Kawai. The NV10 doesn't behave like this although it does ship with a hard sustain pedal, which Kawai ought to have addressed in the factory by now.
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Kawai NV5 - 02/22/20 10:22 PM
That definitely doesn't sound normal. I don't know of any Kawai pedal that sounds as loud. Hope you can get it resolved.
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Kawai NV5 - 02/22/20 11:24 PM
Regarding the damper pedal ... Is the "whoosh" or "whoomp" noise coming from the pedal or from the speakers?
Posted By: pppianomarc Re: Kawai NV5 - 02/23/20 02:13 AM
@aprileon

My left and middle pedals click as well, and my right pedal is very quiet. Did you adjust the little extra support foot underneath the right pedal?

About the micro switches, the way they sound suggests that the mechanical activity is amplified by the surrounding structures (PCB, support, etc). Maybe a foam or rubber pad in the right place can fix it without having to resort to the soldering iron?
Posted By: lovelovemale Re: Kawai NV5 - 02/23/20 02:48 AM
@aprileon

How long do you have your NV5? Did this suddenly occur or did you have these "sounds" from the first day owning the piano ?
Posted By: JoBert Re: Kawai NV5 - 02/23/20 07:50 AM
aprileon: regarding the creak on the right pedal: This pedal has a mechanical component that other DPs don't have (except the NV10). It mechanically moves the damper weights. I don't know how this is done on the NV5, but if it is similar to the NV10, then it is some sort of rod, that moves through felt bushings. This can creak (metal on felt), especially when still new. It can be lubricated to get rid of the creak (graphite powder works for this). Pedal mechanism creaks are also common on acoustics, so a piano tech should be able to help.
Posted By: aprileon Re: Kawai NV5 - 02/23/20 09:35 AM
Thanks for all the feedback - gosh, this forum really works. I will answer your questions:

@lovelovemale: Because the Novus NV5 was not deliverable in December I got a showroom model. I had been on display (and was played) for a few weeks only. The noises where there when I got it. I did not notice them in the shop, but the shop was noisy, so probably they were there.

@David B, JoBert: The technician did not fix the right pedal because he said that it would require quite some work to dismantle the rod system and powder it and so on (the system is kind of covered by the electronics). He would do it when a solution to the more general problem of the clicks was found as maybe the piano would get exchanged. Actually I forgot to ask him about the heaviness because I was so focused on the noises.

@MacMacMac: Regarding the "whomp" noise - if guess you mean this dark muffled sound of the right pedal. It is normal - I know it from my old (real) upright. I believe it's caused by metal rods rubbing on felt. Yet, I find it louder than in my old upright, but the technician said it was normal, I guess he is right, although to be frank I also does bother me a little bit.

@pppianomarc: Yes I adjusted the support. The technician suggested to have it as firm as possible - which it is using bare hands. About the quick fix you suggested: I asked a similar question but apparently it is not possible because the sound of the switch comes from the inside of the switch. So, does the clicking actually bother you?

Do the NV10 pedals click? I still cannot get around the fact that an instrument that is so well made and has so many fine options to adjust it with often barely noticeable differences uses theses simple noisy switches. It just does not go together.
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Kawai NV5 - 02/23/20 10:14 AM
Originally Posted by aprileon

Do the NV10 pedals click? I still cannot get around the fact that an instrument that is so well made and has so many fine options to adjust it with often barely noticeable differences uses theses simple noisy switches. It just does not go together.


I've never heard the NV-10 pedals click. The pedals themselves use the same rod/lever system as an acoustic grand, and the rods actuate a standard Kawai 3-pedal optical unit as used on the CA-series (that is interestingly mounted upside down so the rods push up against it).

I'm not sure where the micro-switches come into play on the NV-5. Upright acoustics do have a more complicated rod/beam movement than a grand though, so I suspect the left and center pedals are mounted differently than on the NV-10.
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Kawai NV5 - 02/24/20 03:48 AM
Hello aprileon,

Congrats on your NV5!

Regarding the damper pedal noise and sostenuto/soft pedal clicks, may I kindly ask you to send me a private message with the serial number of your instrument and your contact email address, please?

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: Bachspace Re: Kawai NV5 - 03/15/20 05:43 AM
Hey Folks,
Since two days I am also a proud owner if the NV5.
It's a beautiful instrument and sounds absolutely perfect (with headphones). The speakers are also better than any other DP I heard so far.
(I am coming from a Roland FP7F)

The touchscreen is rather a bummer...just doesn't feel responsive...but well...you dont need it all the time so I can live with it.

However I want to ask the other owners about some issues I have encountered:
The damper pedal is very stiff. I also have that click sound with the two other pedals.

Also I have the feeling that with some keys the key does not fully move back to it's starting position. It's not visible on the key itself but when I release the key very gently and press it again there is no sound. It feels as if the hammer just hits empty space. It only happens with some of the keys and not everytime. Is that a mechanical issue?

I found the action also to be a little heavier/sharper/more crisp compared to the shop were I bought the piano. Is it possible to tweak it? Apart from that it simply feels great and will definitely improve my technique.

How do you like the harpsichord sound? On my old DP I found it nicer...maybe I just have to get used to it?

Thanks and stay healthy!
Posted By: Tyr Re: Kawai NV5 - 03/15/20 06:55 AM
The left and middle pedal is clicking here too but it doesn't bother me. The stiffness on the damper pedal will fade away after a couple of weeks.
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Kawai NV5 - 03/15/20 06:22 PM
Originally Posted by Bachspace

Also I have the feeling that with some keys the key does not fully move back to it's starting position. It's not visible on the key itself but when I release the key very gently and press it again there is no sound. It feels as if the hammer just hits empty space. It only happens with some of the keys and not everytime. Is that a mechanical issue?


Depends on what you are doin. Are you familiar with Sam acoustic upright action? If you raise the key just below the resting level and press the key down again, it's not supposed to sound (it being a limitation of an upright)., And you will get that "empty space" feeling, which is normal. But if you bring the key all the way up (esp. If you lift your finger off the key) then it should definitely play another note smile
Posted By: Morten Olsson Re: Kawai NV5 - 03/15/20 07:00 PM
I had a rented Kawai K300 that had an issue with the mechanism not always resetting and the next note being silent with no resistance while pressing the key. It was easily fixed by the tech. It drove me crazy playing it when it had the defect - never knowing when the next dreaded dead note would strike.
I seem to recal the issue having to do with some felt that had expanded slightly. The instrument was almost completely new at the time.
Posted By: Bachspace Re: Kawai NV5 - 03/15/20 08:38 PM
Originally Posted by Gombessa

Depends on what you are doin. Are you familiar with Sam acoustic upright action? If you raise the key just below the resting level and press the key down again, it's not supposed to sound (it being a limitation of an upright)., And you will get that "empty space" feeling, which is normal. But if you bring the key all the way up (esp. If you lift your finger off the key) then it should definitely play another note smile


I know about the missing escapement...that's not it. It is when the finger is really off the key. I checked that because at first I was thinking it is due to my poor technique.
Posted By: Morten Olsson Re: Kawai NV5 - 03/15/20 11:18 PM
Certain keys were worse than others - I found it was often but not always reproducible by striking the key then releasing very gently - this would cause the mechanism to not reset and the key not moving the hammer on the next strike.
Posted By: Mikes_Attic Re: Kawai NV5 - 04/09/20 04:17 PM
I am pleased to report that I am also a very proud owner of an NV5 since last Friday. Here below are my very first impressions:

The NV5 was ordered from Bonners Music Store in Milton Keynes and as with every other post related to Bonners I have to give a thumbs up for the amazing service that they offer and thoroughly recommend them.

The store had a private room with an NV5, NV10 and an NU1X together and I was able to move between the instruments to compare them. I didn't particularly try any others, apart from only briefly as I was adamant I wanted a hybrid. The NV10 was too large and out of my price range but I did like the action. I immediately thought that the NV5 was way ahead of the NU1X in feel, sound and features and so went ahead and ordered the NV5.

My last DP is a Yamaha P250 so anything was going to be a big jump forward and the NV5 is an amazing jump.

The NV5 is absolutely amazing, it looks like a real piano, it feels like a real piano and practically sounds like a real piano as well. It is a pleasure to play and has inspired me to spend more time practicing than I was doing before.

The Key action feels great and as mentioned feels as if you are playing a complete upright piano. The only issue I have had is also the keys not quite returning a sound and hitting empty space as mentioned above, I figure I'll see if it improves and I will also adapt to the way it operates, not everything is perfect, yet.

I am also enjoying the features of the piano such as the lesson features which have a huge amount of exercises and pieces to learn which are in the piano and come with sheet music.

I don't have any issues with the pedals.

Thanks to all on the Forum,

Cheers

Mike
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Kawai NV5 - 04/09/20 05:53 PM
Congrats, Mike!


Originally Posted by Mikes_Attic

The Key action feels great and as mentioned feels as if you are playing a complete upright piano. The only issue I have had is also the keys not quite returning a sound and hitting empty space as mentioned above, I figure I'll see if it improves and I will also adapt to the way it operates, not everything is perfect, yet.


Depending on how familiar you are with acoustic uprights, what you describe may well be "working as intended." You can definitely trigger a "dead note" on an upright, accompanied by that feeling of the key bottoming out without throwing the hammer. I think it's mainly a technique think you learn to work around.
Posted By: pianogabe Re: Kawai NV5 - 04/09/20 07:29 PM
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Depending on how familiar you are with acoustic uprights, what you describe may well be "working as intended." You can definitely trigger a "dead note" on an upright, accompanied by that feeling of the key bottoming out without throwing the hammer. I think it's mainly a technique think you learn to work around.

This. I recently bought a K300, and had the same thing. Initially I thought perhaps the action needed some adjusting, but after 3 weeks it is clear it is was my technique, and now it almost doesn't happen anymore. It was me who needed some adjusting, coming from a CA58.
Posted By: MiahLam Re: Kawai NV5 - 06/02/20 05:46 PM
I just placed an order for Kawai NV5, Orlando FL area. I am excited! I have Kawai CA93 for 10 years and have enjoyed this piano very much but I believe I need to upgrade to an acoustic one simply I want to have the real feel to a real piano. Kawai now offering 24 months of finance with 0 interests. Hope this helps.
Posted By: U3piano Re: Kawai NV5 - 06/02/20 05:53 PM
Originally Posted by lialim88
I just placed an order for Kawai NV5, Orlando FL area. I am excited! I have Kawai CA93 for 10 years and have enjoyed this piano very much but I believe I need to upgrade to an acoustic one

You do realize the NV5 is not acoustic? smile
Posted By: JackFi Re: Kawai NV5 - 06/02/20 06:01 PM
Originally Posted by U3piano
Originally Posted by lialim88
I just placed an order for Kawai NV5, Orlando FL area. I am excited! I have Kawai CA93 for 10 years and have enjoyed this piano very much but I believe I need to upgrade to an acoustic one

You do realize the NV5 is not acoustic? smile
Seems that someone is in trouble laugh To give some comfort i got mine today and it looks like a piano, feels like a piano and when using headphones even sounds like a piano smile
Posted By: Mikes_Attic Re: Kawai NV5 - 06/02/20 07:02 PM
Mine is a real piano and I refuse to believe otherwise.... although it does sometimes feel odd that I have to switch it on before it will play ...
Posted By: MiahLam Re: Kawai NV5 - 06/08/20 01:26 AM
Yes, I do realize that the NV5 is digital piano with a real feel of an acoustic one. I want to be able t play with a headset on. I haven't gotten mine yet, can't wit. Also, I played on Yahama Upright acoustic, Rolando digital, Yamaha both acoustic and digital. In my own opinion, Kawai sounds the best.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Kawai NV5 - 06/08/20 01:44 AM
Lia, I’ve never played a “Rolando digital”. Are these good?
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Kawai NV5 - 06/08/20 12:04 PM
Pete ... try an Orlando digital. Or maybe an Armando digital.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Kawai NV5 - 06/08/20 12:31 PM
I’ve tried the AvantGrande from Yamaho, but I’ve yet to try an Orlando.... from Rolando? wink
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Kawai NV5 - 06/08/20 12:56 PM
How about Ronaldo? He's a dandy dude over here in Europe. But far away across the ocean you seem to say "football" to some guys that prod and nudge around... Go figure.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Kawai NV5 - 06/08/20 02:37 PM
Yes, I’ve never understood: why ‘football’, yet they do all the work with their helmets. So many things they could’ve called it, but no, they had to steal the name from the guys who are truly playing football; you know, because they use their feet and stuff to move the ball forward instead of violently pounding into one another head-first.

Why not call it headball?
Posted By: ˆTomLCˆ Re: Kawai NV5 - 06/08/20 02:39 PM
Welcome to the forum, Lia. And congratulations on your new NV5. Hang around and send a picture when you get it.

These guys don't mean to be disrespectful. They are just good for a laugh. And some pretty good advice sometimes.
Posted By: robinlb Re: Kawai NV5 - 06/08/20 02:40 PM
I just tried the K300/K500 in Kawai dealer yesterday, and it's clear that the K500 keyboard action is better in both of material and controlling. But dnt known which model is closer to the NV5.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Kawai NV5 - 06/08/20 02:43 PM
Yes, Lia, don’t pay too much attention to us. It’s all meant in jest. Hope to see you back soon. smile

In the meantime, who’s game for some headball? (henceforward, I refuse to call it football)!
Posted By: Mickey_ Re: Kawai NV5 - 06/08/20 03:21 PM
Originally Posted by robinlb
I just tried the K300/K500 in Kawai dealer yesterday, and it's clear that the K500 keyboard action is better in both of material and controlling.

That's interesting. From what I understand, the K-300 and K-500 actions should, at least material-wise, be identical. Can anyone (Kawai James?) confirm that there are indeed differences (apart, maybe, from the controlling aspect) - and also let us/me know what that means with regard to the NV5?
Posted By: robinlb Re: Kawai NV5 - 06/08/20 04:38 PM
Originally Posted by Mickey_
That's interesting. From what I understand, the K-300 and K-500 actions should, at least material-wise, be identical. Can anyone (Kawai James?) confirm that there are indeed differences (apart, maybe, from the controlling aspect) - and also let us/me know what that means with regard to the NV5?

The feeling I get after playing both pianos is that they have different keyboards.
From materials to controlling by different pivot length I guess.
On KawaiUS website shows keyboard touch
K300: White Key Surfaces Acrylic, Black Key Surfaces Phenol
K500: White Key Surfaces NEOTEX™ Black Key Surfaces NEOTEX™

And I can feel K500 action is obviously lighter and controllable than K300, closed to the level of some baby grand action.
But maybe NV5 is another special version for Hybrid millennium3 upright action.
Posted By: Mickey_ Re: Kawai NV5 - 06/08/20 07:48 PM
You are right about the different surfaces, robinlb.

According to the specs sheets, the depths of the K-300 and the K-500 are 24" (61 cm) and 24.5" (62 cm) respectively. I'm wondering whether that could mean that the "hidden" parts of the actions, e.g. the pivot lenghts, are different, too.

(Please note that I have finally used the words "pivot lengths" for the first time. I guess I'm a full member of this forum now. :-))
Posted By: pianogabe Re: Kawai NV5 - 06/08/20 08:16 PM
The K-300 and K-500 feel different when playing. Besides the differing surfaces, the K-500 feels a bit heavier to me. I know this is the opposite of what robinlb experiences. Don't know why.
Posted By: Alamo Music Center Re: Kawai NV5 - 06/11/20 05:23 PM
Hello everyone,

I am enjoying this thread. Here are a couple of videos we did on the subject of hybrids, hope you find them useful.

*Removed advertising links which are against forum rules*
Posted By: MiahLam Re: Kawai NV5 - 06/11/20 11:55 PM
Roland digital piano is very good. I thought it sounds better than the lower end Yamaha digitals but when I got my first Kawai CA93. I am convinced now that Kawai is by far the better built, sound, etc. :=_) my amateur opinion.
Posted By: MiahLam Re: Kawai NV5 - 06/12/20 12:01 AM
Please pardon my errors from the last writing. Yes, I meant to say "Roland" :=_))))
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