Piano World Home Page

DP for children

Posted By: Egret

DP for children - 08/14/19 11:58 AM

Guys help please advice.
A very difficult choice for a non-musician (lol).
I have been choosing the piano for a young beginner pianist for a very long time. My daughter is only 6.5 years old. She takes her first steps. And there is no certainty how far it will go along this road.
Initially, I considered ROLAND RP 501 (on the advice of my friend). Then in the store (on the advice of the local inhabitants) both of us liked the Roland HP 603 and 605. Although ... this is very arbitrary, since they all seemed the same to us, honestly))))
But I began to consider more expensive options: the HP series , new LX 705 in Roland, may be a Yamaha CLP 645.
And I was almost ready to give 2,000 euros for the piano.
But the seller today made me doubt, said that we should take it cheaper.
YDP 164 Yamaha or ROLAND RP 501 more than meet my needs.
"The experiment must be justified. 1000 euros is normal, 2000 euros is too expensive for the experiment.
And if the lessons become really serious, you will have to buy an acoustic piano".
This is seductive.
But it bothers me if training on a simpler piano in general affects skills?
Is it possible to learn a child (put her hands correctly / start enjoying music and sound) on simpler pianos? Is the child really the first 2-3 years of education will not feel the difference between DP for 1000 or 2000?
after 3-4 years of practice the piano will have to be updated ... this is unnecessary trouble, but will new technologies appear?
I don’t want to pay money for excess, but I don’t want to regret that we did not pay for enough. Miser pays twice.

Sorry for such a long text, but I already want to remove this problem from myself.

I'll be really grateful to everyone for any opinion and reasoning.

PS: we only consider the cabinets, the slabs in her opinion is not a real piano at all.
Posted By: Morten Olsson

Re: DP for children - 08/14/19 12:23 PM

If you like the Rolands then I say buy a Roland - you really can't go wrong with them.
Posted By: jamiecw

Re: DP for children - 08/14/19 12:32 PM

Hi,

I hope you get plenty of replies and advice but if I have to make one (advice), please do not buy the Yamaha YDP164 - the action, especially for a child, is too heavy (it's heavy for some adults even) and I would not want my child learning on that.

Here goes another suggestion, if you are more worried about the experiment not lasting, the R501R would be my choice because it has good action and the sound, for a learner, is adequate enough. In this scenario, and if your child carries on with lessons, you'd probably look for an upgrade in 3-5 years as an average (depending on how quickly they progress).

If you are more worried about training on the right piano and not worried as much if the experiment (your child does not want to learn anymore) does not last, then I would look towards either the HP603/605 or LX 705 (in order of how deep are you willing to dig into your pockets). Personally, the 603 would be fine with the scope of upgrading to an acoustic long into the future or the LX705 if you rather stick with digitals.

PS I advice the Roland because in my view, because they model the sound, this allows for better expression and any teacher worth half their salt will tell you that playing music is not just about pressing the right notes but how you convey and express the piece you are playing - ergo modelled sound in digital pianos give you the best chance to achieve this.

My two cents..
Posted By: Morten Olsson

Re: DP for children - 08/14/19 12:41 PM

I agree that if you want a Yamaha and it's for a young child you should maybe consider the YDP-144 for the softer action.
I tried out a 144 recently and I though it sounded great. If I'm not mistaken it has the added benefit of a built in audio interface which could be a great addition for a child if you want to try using stuff like "Simply Piano" - my 7 year old loved Simply Piano for a while until she lost interest with the whole thing that is :-)
Posted By: clothearednincompo

Re: DP for children - 08/14/19 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by Egret
[...] will new technologies appear?


Always.

But acoustic pianos have remained the same for the last 100 years or so and most modern digital pianos are already quite good imitations of the real thing.

Any of the Kawai models could also be a candidate for a moderately priced beginner/intermediate digital piano.
Posted By: Egret

Re: DP for children - 08/14/19 02:00 PM

thanx for help.
I cross out Yamaha YDP164, but what about CLP 645? too heavy action?
Posted By: Morten Olsson

Re: DP for children - 08/14/19 02:06 PM

Pretty expensive for a child that may or may not stay interested but a very nice instrument indeed.

I myself find the key action uncomfortable and a bit stiff in the initial movement - don't know if I would call it "heavy" exactly but there are definitely other actions that are "easier" to play.

The whole action thing is very subjective and I wouldn't get too hung up on it - I think any weighted action from a major player such as Yamaha, Roland, Casio or Kawai will be just fine but as a rule the Yamahas may feel a bit stiffer / heavier except for the cheapest ones like the P125 / YDP-144.

Again - if you liked the Rolands then get one of those - they are excellent instruments and should serve you for years.

Cheers
Posted By: nicknameTaken

Re: DP for children - 08/14/19 02:12 PM

Yes, I'd rather take a Roland for 'abuse' rather than any other Piano smile
They are more sturdy imo.
Posted By: magicpiano

Re: DP for children - 08/14/19 02:25 PM

As others already suggested, I would add Kawai digital pianos to the list of candidates. But I would consider Casio instruments too. Here in Europe they are much cheaper than the DPs of other brands, but the overall quality is comparable. Between € 900 and € 1000 you can buy a Casio AP-470 that is not bad at all, and it is a cabinet style piano. To me, spend € 2000 when you don't know if your daughter will continue with the piano is a little too much.

Personally, in your place, I would spend not more than € 5-600 for a slab piano (something like a Yamaha P125 or a Roland FP-30 are good products) and then, after some years, if my daughter would want to continue on this road, I would sell the slab piano and upgrade to a better cabinet-style one (or maybe an acoustic!). And in this case, it should be my daughter to make the choice, based on how she feels about the different keyboard actions and sound timbres of the many DP models.
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: DP for children - 08/14/19 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by magicpiano
Personally, in your place, I would spend not more than € 5-600 for a slab piano (something like a Yamaha P125 or a Roland FP-30 are good products) and then, after some years, if my daughter would want to continue on this road, I would sell the slab piano and upgrade to a better cabinet-style one (or maybe an acoustic!).

+1

Quote
And in this case, it should be my daughter to make the choice, based on how she feels about the different keyboard actions and sound timbres of the many DP models.

+1!!!! thumb
Posted By: MacMacMac

Re: DP for children - 08/14/19 03:00 PM

I think this makes sense:
Originally Posted by magicpiano
I would spend not more than € 5-600 for a slab piano (something like a Yamaha P125 or a Roland FP-30 are good products) and then, after some years, if my daughter would want to continue on this road, I would sell the slab piano and upgrade to a better cabinet-style one (or maybe an acoustic!). And in this case, it should be my daughter to make the choice, based on how she feels about the different keyboard actions and sound timbres of the many DP models.
I went that route thirty years ago ... except the "child" in question was not a child. She was my wife. And the student "quit", and I became the substitute.

We only spend $200 on a cheap Casio.

Seven years later came a $3500 used Kawai upright. And twelve years later a Yamaha Clavinova.
Posted By: jamiecw

Re: DP for children - 08/14/19 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop


Quote
And in this case, it should be my daughter to make the choice, based on how she feels about the different keyboard actions and sound timbres of the many DP models.

+1!!!! thumb


Really? Great advice in principle, less so in practice, unless this 6 yr old has been playing piano since 2-3 yrs old and is Yuja Wang in the making I'd be surprised if they can tell the difference between actions let alone sound timbres...
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: DP for children - 08/14/19 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by jamiecw
Really? Great advice in principle, less so in practice, unless this 6 yr old has been playing piano since 2-3 yrs old and is Yuja Wang in the making I'd be surprised if they can tell the difference between actions let alone sound timbres...

Remember, magicpiano said, "...and then, after some years, if my daughter would want to continue on this road,.." This child is 6.5 now and in "some years" will be 9-10. A great age to be assessing keyboard feel. When I bought my N1X, there were a number of families in the showroom with their kids trying out the different piano keyboards.
Posted By: KL NY

Re: DP for children - 08/14/19 03:59 PM

Have you check any used piano in your area?
I bought a used YDP-140 about ... 6-7 years ago and just upgrade to a Kawai CA58 recently. The YDP140 served us well, my daughter still taking lesson. I dont think you need acoustic to play well. And it depend on why you want her to play. Some parents want their kids to pass grade 8 exams. To me , I just want my children know to play piano, enjoy the music, it not that matter how well they perform. If she can play well on a DP, she will play well on a acoustic piano. Of course, if one day your daughter came to you and asked for a acoustic piano, then you consider to get one.

May I ask why dont you want to buy a acoustic piano? If you can afford it and have room , I think that is the way to go.

For the piano choice, I don't like Roland sound, it feel too thin and digital. I think a Yamaha Arius like YDP 144 is enough if your budget is tight.. if not, go for CLP 645, that can last years.
Posted By: magicpiano

Re: DP for children - 08/14/19 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by jamiecw
Really? Great advice in principle, less so in practice, unless this 6 yr old has been playing piano since 2-3 yrs old and is Yuja Wang in the making I'd be surprised if they can tell the difference between actions let alone sound timbres...

I wrote "after some years"... That is, she should begin to learn the piano first and then, after some years of practice (exactly "how many years" depends from the child progress and desires for a better instrument...), she should be able to tell which action and sound timbre she would prefer.
Posted By: jamiecw

Re: DP for children - 08/14/19 04:23 PM

Ah, I thought when you said "And in this case.." it meant in the present case not the future one...my bad!
Posted By: Egret

Re: DP for children - 08/14/19 05:18 PM

Thank you all very much.
I understand that the majority shares the point of view of my seller today: to buy cheaper, and then after 3-4 years to decide on the circumstances.
In Russia, among teachers of music schools, there is a strong opinion that one can learn only on acoustics. One teacher (not our, Thanks God) says that:
“everyone is very mistaken when they buy the piano easier and cheaper, and then if the child plays, then ... then they buy something better. He won’t play! If there’s no good instrument, then the child will never play. First a good instrument, and then ... maybe he will play, if talent, or maybe not "(lol)
But first a musical instrument.
At the same time, of course, she are only talking about acoustics, you can’t even pronounce DP (lol)
This teacher just makes the parents buy the Grand piano home (!). Grand! for 7 year old children ...
Therefore, I worry that there will be an insufficient instrument, she will not learn.
I can not afford acoustics for several reasons. This issue with great torment, I decided for myself))) will be the DP.
it seems too much rubbish in my head))))))
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: DP for children - 08/14/19 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by Egret
In Russia, among teachers of music schools, there is a strong opinion that one can learn only on acoustics. ... This teacher just makes the parents buy the Grand piano home (!). Grand! for 7 year old children ...

It wasn't always this way- My wife was in a music school in Moscow at a time when few had pianos in their homes - nevermind grand pianos. After all, where can one fit a grand piano in a kommunalka?
Posted By: Morten Olsson

Re: DP for children - 08/14/19 05:30 PM

A modern DP is a perfectly fine instrument - some people are stuck in the past.
I vastly prefer playing acoustics but that’s just as much down to me being weird smile

My first piano was a Roland F140 and I enjoyed the heck out of that.
Posted By: Egret

Re: DP for children - 08/14/19 05:35 PM

Tyrone Slothrop Of course this is crazy.
but nevertheless, I did not hear that some teacher allowed to train at home on the DP. Parents do it as if against advice))
Posted By: Egret

Re: DP for children - 08/14/19 05:37 PM

Morten Olsson,
Yes, I think this is the case. People do not follow technology. And for many DP, it's still something like the very first synthesizers.
Posted By: KL NY

Re: DP for children - 08/14/19 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by Egret
Thank you all very much.
I understand that the majority shares the point of view of my seller today: to buy cheaper, and then after 3-4 years to decide on the circumstances.
In Russia, among teachers of music schools, there is a strong opinion that one can learn only on acoustics. One teacher (not our, Thanks God) says that:
“everyone is very mistaken when they buy the piano easier and cheaper, and then if the child plays, then ... then they buy something better. He won’t play! If there’s no good instrument, then the child will never play. First a good instrument, and then ... maybe he will play, if talent, or maybe not "(lol)
But first a musical instrument.
At the same time, of course, she are only talking about acoustics, you can’t even pronounce DP (lol)
This teacher just makes the parents buy the Grand piano home (!). Grand! for 7 year old children ...
Therefore, I worry that there will be an insufficient instrument, she will not learn.
I can not afford acoustics for several reasons. This issue with great torment, I decided for myself))) will be the DP.
it seems too much rubbish in my head))))))


Haha I can relate to this, when we considered get a new DP, and talked to my daughter teacher, she had the look like "are you serious", Perhaps we are in NYC, so she kind of understand not everyone can put a acoustic in apt, she didnt really said much but told me how good a acoustic piano compare to DP. Yeah , I know.

I do agree with the teacher , instrument is very important. A decent instrument sound better and play better, it can really motivate people to play.
Posted By: LarryK

Re: DP for children - 08/14/19 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by KL NY
Originally Posted by Egret
Thank you all very much.
I understand that the majority shares the point of view of my seller today: to buy cheaper, and then after 3-4 years to decide on the circumstances.
In Russia, among teachers of music schools, there is a strong opinion that one can learn only on acoustics. One teacher (not our, Thanks God) says that:
“everyone is very mistaken when they buy the piano easier and cheaper, and then if the child plays, then ... then they buy something better. He won’t play! If there’s no good instrument, then the child will never play. First a good instrument, and then ... maybe he will play, if talent, or maybe not "(lol)
But first a musical instrument.
At the same time, of course, she are only talking about acoustics, you can’t even pronounce DP (lol)
This teacher just makes the parents buy the Grand piano home (!). Grand! for 7 year old children ...
Therefore, I worry that there will be an insufficient instrument, she will not learn.
I can not afford acoustics for several reasons. This issue with great torment, I decided for myself))) will be the DP.
it seems too much rubbish in my head))))))


Haha I can relate to this, when we considered get a new DP, and talked to my daughter teacher, she had the look like "are you serious", Perhaps we are in NYC, so she kind of understand not everyone can put a acoustic in apt, she didnt really said much but told me how good a acoustic piano compare to DP. Yeah , I know.

I do agree with the teacher , instrument is very important. A decent instrument sound better and play better, it can really motivate people to play.



My Russian piano teacher pronounces DP as "GADGET." She certainly didn't have a fond opinion of my gadget, and so, I had her pick out an upright for me! The gadget has been sold and will be picked up tomorrow.

I live in a one bedroom apartment in New York City and I rented a Yamaha U1 silent piano from PianoPiano (https://pianopiano.com) for the next year and then I'll decide what to buy for the long haul.

I think every apartment can fit an upright piano. Sure, the neighbors, but if you don't practice past 10pm or before 9am, I don't think it should be a problem.

I'm enjoying playing more on the acoustic than I did on the digital piano. Mainly, I think it is the vibrations I feel through the keys when the hammers hit the strings, and the way the sound surrounds me and is not just being blasted into my ears with headphones.
Posted By: KL NY

Re: DP for children - 08/14/19 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by LarryK

My Russian piano teacher pronounces DP as "GADGET." She certainly didn't have a fond opinion of my gadget, and so, I had her pick out an upright for me! The gadget has been sold and will be picked up tomorrow.

I live in a one bedroom apartment in New York City and I rented a Yamaha U1 silent piano from PianoPiano (https://pianopiano.com) for the next year and then I'll decide what to buy for the long haul.

I think every apartment can fit an upright piano. Sure, the neighbors, but if you don't practice past 10pm or before 9am, I don't think it should be a problem.

I'm enjoying playing more on the acoustic than I did on the digital piano. Mainly, I think it is the vibrations I feel through the keys when the hammers hit the strings, and the way the sound surrounds me and is not just being blasted into my ears with headphones.





I check the pianopiano site, isnt it very expensive to rent for a year if not buy from them? the rent then own only apply the first 12 months of the rental to the piano..
Posted By: LarryK

Re: DP for children - 08/14/19 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by KL NY
Originally Posted by LarryK

My Russian piano teacher pronounces DP as "GADGET." She certainly didn't have a fond opinion of my gadget, and so, I had her pick out an upright for me! The gadget has been sold and will be picked up tomorrow.

I live in a one bedroom apartment in New York City and I rented a Yamaha U1 silent piano from PianoPiano (https://pianopiano.com) for the next year and then I'll decide what to buy for the long haul.

I think every apartment can fit an upright piano. Sure, the neighbors, but if you don't practice past 10pm or before 9am, I don't think it should be a problem.

I'm enjoying playing more on the acoustic than I did on the digital piano. Mainly, I think it is the vibrations I feel through the keys when the hammers hit the strings, and the way the sound surrounds me and is not just being blasted into my ears with headphones.





I check the pianopiano site, isnt it very expensive to rent for a year if not buy from them? the rent then own only apply the first 12 months of the rental to the piano..



Well, I did rent a pretty expensive piano because I wanted to try out the silent feature, but it is much cheaper to rent an acoustic upright without the silent feature, down to $43-$125 a month, depending on the size of the piano.

As for whether it is expensive if you don't buy it, perhaps, but it is probably better than buying something you're not happy with or which is not played. I wonder how many pianos sit in homes, unplayed. A lot, I would say.

If I don't find myself using the silent feature much in the net year of playing, perhaps I will just buy an acoustic upright without that feature.
Posted By: Egret

Re: DP for children - 08/15/19 09:23 AM

No one knows if Roland plans to update the RP lineup?
It's a little depressing to buy not a new model...
And in a few months there will be a new model with improvements at the same price.
In this regard, YDP 164 is more justified, but, as written above, is not suitable for young children due to heavy action.
Posted By: MacMacMac

Re: DP for children - 08/15/19 10:41 AM

I wouldn't worry about a new model. There will ALWAYS be a new model. Always.

But the new model won't be much different than the old. The new one may have more features (maybe). But if you're worrying about features you ought not be buying a piano.

Any piano has all the features you need. There are 88 features and all pianos have them. Be concerned with touch and sound. Nothing else matters. Features don't matter. Forget about them.
Posted By: Morten Olsson

Re: DP for children - 08/15/19 10:43 AM

If you want something new and feel that the 164 is too hard (which may not be the case - has she tried it) then the 144 is a great instrument as well IMO.
And the built in audio interface really is great if your daughter wants to use iPad based learning such as Simply Piano.
If you don't care about iPad stuff then you can't go wrong with the Roland.
Posted By: jamiecw

Re: DP for children - 08/15/19 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by MacMacMac

Any piano has all the features you need. There are 88 features and all pianos have them. Be concerned with touch and sound. Nothing else matters. Features don't matter. Forget about them.


+1

Mac is right - there is always a new model but much like a partner we (most of the times) prefer the one we've got. grin

At this point in time, with all current models considering, I'd be more concerned with getting started than waiting for the next model..we like playing music not playing the most recent piano, I have a 2.5 year old HP605 - I still love playing on it regardless of the fact that is has been superseded by a newer model.
Posted By: Egret

Re: DP for children - 08/15/19 12:34 PM

OK
I won't think about it

probably, the feature set bothers me the least ...
do not think that it will be somehow really in demand at this stage.

The only question that still torments me is:
is there a difference in the action of the keys, in the sensations of playing (for a beginner and a child of course) in a piano of a different price league?
RP 501 (1200 DLL) and LX 705 (2200 DLL) for example?
Is it worth it to pay 1000 more or is it better not to empty the bank because the child doesn't feel the difference?
when I looked at the models, I liked the wooden keys more, purely tactile wood is nicer than plastic.
and this can be appreciated by the child (it was not for nothing that she liked HP 603 more than RP 501 (lol). But is that all? Will the remaining differences become clear to her only after 3-4 years of practice?
Posted By: nicknameTaken

Re: DP for children - 08/15/19 12:48 PM

I tell you this: The Piano should fit to the student, like a pair of shoes. If the student doesn't like it, it won't motivate for long times.
Posted By: caribou3

Re: DP for children - 08/15/19 01:03 PM

Look at the new HP 704. It will have the same action as the Lx but less expensive. The 702 has the lower end action. Roland advertised this new line 702/704 for first time buyer (adult and kids).
Posted By: jamiecw

Re: DP for children - 08/15/19 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by Egret

The only question that still torments me is:
is there a difference in the action of the keys, in the sensations of playing (for a beginner and a child of course) in a piano of a different price league?
RP 501 (1200 DLL) and LX 705 (2200 DLL) for example?

There is a difference but this difference will not matter to a beginner - better action is appreciated once the pianist has advanced and is no longer considered a beginner. As a pianist progresses they tend to start learning and or practicing more advanced (difficult even) pieces that a better action will assist and compliment the player with said (advanced) pieces.

The PHA-4 on the RP501 is more than adequate for a beginner and it will only stagnate a players' ability way post the intermediate stages.

PS do not be mistaken that the extra 1000 more is just because of the action - for that extra 1000 on the LX705 you will get the latest sound engine which a lot here agree, sounds better, 4x more powerful speakers (vs 2x speakers on the 501), a traditional looking cabinet and the better action (and yes, to an intermediate/advanced player, the PHA50 action on the 705 is oodles better than the PHA-4 and they will most definitely appreciate the difference, to a beginner though I doubt it) and other features to justify the extra 1K price tag.

So, this goes back to my original email, you either start small and climb up (for example, 501 and if the child advances buy another piano once they get there) or you start big and cross your fingers the child wants to keep playing (this to me is a win if they stick with it because the more expensive piano means I do not have to spend money again - well until they start wanting a grand or an acoustic and that's another story:)).

It's a gamble - one that you and only you can make.

EDIT: PPS - the wood on the LX705 is strips of wood on either side of the key and it's just aesthetically nice but serves no other purpose, there are other pianos that have full wooden keys - the CLP645 has this on the white keys only and that makes the touch feel like it does on an acoustic. Either way, if one wants to learn the piano both types allow you to and do not contemplate too much on this.
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: DP for children - 08/15/19 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by jamiecw
Originally Posted by Egret

The only question that still torments me is:
is there a difference in the action of the keys, in the sensations of playing (for a beginner and a child of course) in a piano of a different price league?
RP 501 (1200 DLL) and LX 705 (2200 DLL) for example?

There is a difference but this difference will not matter to a beginner - better action is appreciated once the pianist has advanced and is no longer considered a beginner. As a pianist progresses they tend to start learning and or practicing more advanced (difficult even) pieces that a better action will assist and compliment the player with said (advanced) pieces.

However, in a culture where the acoustic piano is king, better keyboard action at least gets you in the game. I would agree with you except that the OP already described the environment he is in and what the piano teachers in that environment mostly think. Better action is approaching the action of an acoustic. Worse action is becoming less acoustic-like. The OP should really get the best action he can afford. Sound can be fixed with speakers and VSTs but the keyboard action will forever be the same as he took home on the first day.
Posted By: jamiecw

Re: DP for children - 08/15/19 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

..However, in a culture where the acoustic piano is king, better keyboard action at least gets you in the game..


That's fair enough - and furthermore, if the pockets dig deep getting the best is what I believe in.

I am wondering, if indeed acoustic is king, can you be absolutely certain that even the Hybrid NV5 will get you in the game or will the acoustic always prevail...I would think once a purist always a purist but then again I have never been and the few Russians I know do not play piano.
Posted By: akc42

Re: DP for children - 08/15/19 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by jamiecw

I am wondering, if indeed acoustic is king, can you be absolutely certain that even the Hybrid NV5 will get you in the game or will the acoustic always prevail...I would think once a purist always a purist but then again I have never been and the few Russians I know do not play piano.


I haven't tried the NV5, but I doubt it. I've said this before, but I get to play an acoustic (upright - Knight K10) piano my father bought and I played on as a kid, but didn't touch in the intermediate time before my daughter had it in her house. I get to play it approximately once a month. Initially I didn't like as much as my Kawai CA67, but as my fingers got more sensitive, it started to really grow on me - mainly because of when playing one can feel the sound through the fingers and around and through your body.

Now I am aiming to purchase my own acoustic grand when my three year boundary of restarting is reached (Personal target - I have had many hobbies in my life, but apart from one - Programming, all have tapered off around the two year boundary never to restart). Before reaching that conclusion, I have had an opportunity to really try top end digitals (I live a short way away from Bonners Music in Reigate) side by side with acoustic grands. The ONLY piano to come close to being as pleasurable as an acoustic grand was the Novus NV10. I tried Kawai CS11, Roland LX17, Yamaha N1X as well. Only the N1X and the NV10 had an action that truely compared and although the Novus sound was good it still wasn't quite there for me.

So I have come to the inconvenient (for my wife - and for the remodelling of my dining room) conclusion that at my age I deserve to play as much as I can on an acoustic grand and keep my CA67 for practicing on with headphones
Posted By: ZeroZero

Re: DP for children - 08/15/19 07:52 PM

I am not a teacher, I really dont know the piano market however I would like to make a couple of points. Buying too cheap for a child can be a big mistake. The reason a good piano is good is because it responds to you, it gives something back to the player, even a child can feel this. Playing an unresponsive piano can kill a child's eagerness to learn. Having said this, there are some really good pianos these days that are very reasonable price. Get some advice from a large music store, such as Digital VIllage. I second the vote for Roland above
Posted By: LarryK

Re: DP for children - 08/15/19 08:14 PM

I discovered that it was easier to sell my wife on putting an acoustic upright in the living room than it was to convince her to let a DP go in the same space. A beautifully finished upright looks good as a piece of furniture, while most DPs do not look good in that way. It has to do with the cheap cabinets used in DPs and the fact that they’re small, which to my mind is not a good thing because all pianos are about the same length, it’s just depth and height that are different, and those dimensions don’t matter much, in my opinion.
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: DP for children - 08/15/19 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by LarryK
...it’s just depth and height that are different, and those dimensions don’t matter much, in my opinion.

Depends on the style. When every inch counts like the interior re-design I just kicked off, vertical space also matters. For example, my designer talked to me today about putting my queen bed on a 6' platform to recover the space under it. I never had a bunk bed as a child but I get to call dibs on the top bunk as an adult! Woot!
Posted By: LarryK

Re: DP for children - 08/15/19 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by LarryK
...it’s just depth and height that are different, and those dimensions don’t matter much, in my opinion.

Depends on the style. When every inch counts like the interior re-design I just kicked off, vertical space also matters. For example, my designer talked to me today about putting my queen bed on a 6' platform to recover the space under it. I never had a bunk bed as a child but I get to call dibs on the top bunk as an adult! Woot!


Once, we stayed in a friend’s apartment in Paris while they were out of town. We discovered that the bed was a little over a foot from the ceiling. It was a miserable way to sleep because we couldn’t sit up, and we risked breaking a leg getting up to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night. If you have 8’ ceilings, you’ll only have two feet to sit up in. I wouldn’t recommend a raised bed.

When our friends got back to Paris, I committed a terrible faux pas by making a joke about that horrible bed, and that ended the friendship. They were German and sensitive to slights. I shouldn’t have spoken the truth, it slipped out as a joke but it didn’t go over well.

I just meant that, generally speaking, if you have the length for a keyboard instrument, you’ll have the depth and height, at least, I do in NYC.
Posted By: MacMacMac

Re: DP for children - 08/15/19 08:48 PM

So now this is Bedding World? Maybe bedding retailers will advertise here? And the extra money will forestall Frank's paid-subscription model? smile
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: DP for children - 08/15/19 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by MacMacMac
So now this is Bedding World? Maybe bedding retailers will advertise here? And the extra money will forestall Frank's paid-subscription model? smile

I call dibs on the piano-bed! thumb
Posted By: EPW

Re: DP for children - 08/15/19 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
So now this is Bedding World? Maybe bedding retailers will advertise here? And the extra money will forestall Frank's paid-subscription model? smile

I call dibs on the piano-bed! thumb


I call dibs on the Sheet Music Bed sheets smile
Posted By: EPW

Re: DP for children - 08/15/19 08:57 PM

Now the question becomes do the sheets have a compact folded action or are they elongated...................
Posted By: LarryK

Re: DP for children - 08/15/19 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by EPW
Now the question becomes do the sheets have a compact folded action or are they elongated...................


Let’s just say that there is no action when one is one foot from the ceiling.
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: DP for children - 08/15/19 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by EPW
Now the question becomes do the sheets have a compact folded action or are they elongated...................


Let’s just say that there is no action when one is one foot from the ceiling.

Aha! So that's why your former friend cut you off. You insinuated that nothing was happening in his bed? wink
Posted By: LarryK

Re: DP for children - 08/15/19 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by EPW
Now the question becomes do the sheets have a compact folded action or are they elongated...................


Let’s just say that there is no action when one is one foot from the ceiling.

Aha! So that's why your former friend cut you off. You insinuated that nothing was happening in his bed? wink


LOL, they had two kids so something happened somewhere. I guess I appeared to be ungrateful for the room, sigh. I can often come up with the wrong thing to say, sort of know it is wrong, but say it anyway, realizing a second after I have said it that I should not have said it.
Posted By: EPW

Re: DP for children - 08/15/19 09:31 PM

LOL, they had two kids so something happened somewhere. I guess I appeared to be ungrateful for the room, sigh. I can often come up with the wrong thing to say, sort of know it is wrong, but say it anyway, realizing a second after I have said it that I should not have said it.

I've been there myself many of times smile
Posted By: Charles Cohen

Re: DP for children - 08/15/19 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by magicpiano
Personally, in your place, I would spend not more than € 5-600 for a slab piano (something like a Yamaha P125 or a Roland FP-30 are good products) and then, after some years, if my daughter would want to continue on this road, I would sell the slab piano and upgrade to a better cabinet-style one (or maybe an acoustic!).

+1

Quote
And in this case, it should be my daughter to make the choice, based on how she feels about the different keyboard actions and sound timbres of the many DP models.

+1!!!! thumb


+1.

. . . Who is the "she" who doesn't think that a "slab piano" is a piano at all?

If it's your daughter, she probably doesn't know enough, yet, to make the judgement. If it's a teacher, she's wrong (IMHO):

. . .The only difference between a "slab DP" (e.g., a Roland FP-90) and a similar "cabinet DP" is in their
. . . amplifiers and speakers:

. . . . If you wish, you can add good amps and speakers to a "slab DP", and still save money against
. . . the similar cabinet DP from the same maker.

Including your daughter in the decision is psychologically useful:

. . . She's more likely to play an instrument that she helped to choose.

But the parameters of the decision ("budget", especially!) are set by you, not by her.
Posted By: MacMacMac

Re: DP for children - 08/15/19 11:35 PM

It's funny that some piano teachers know so much about pianism and so little about pianos.
Posted By: LarryK

Re: DP for children - 08/16/19 12:48 AM

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by LarryK
...it’s just depth and height that are different, and those dimensions don’t matter much, in my opinion.

Depends on the style. When every inch counts like the interior re-design I just kicked off, vertical space also matters. For example, my designer talked to me today about putting my queen bed on a 6' platform to recover the space under it. I never had a bunk bed as a child but I get to call dibs on the top bunk as an adult! Woot!


Well, I don’t know why I didn’t post this right away, but, I think the solution to your problem is a Murphy bed that folds up against a wall. I had one when I lived in a studio in DC and it was brilliant. I had room for a little dining area during the day and could push everything aside to pull down the bed at night
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: DP for children - 08/16/19 06:34 AM

Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by LarryK
...it’s just depth and height that are different, and those dimensions don’t matter much, in my opinion.

Depends on the style. When every inch counts like the interior re-design I just kicked off, vertical space also matters. For example, my designer talked to me today about putting my queen bed on a 6' platform to recover the space under it. I never had a bunk bed as a child but I get to call dibs on the top bunk as an adult! Woot!


Well, I don’t know why I didn’t post this right away, but, I think the solution to your problem is a Murphy bed that folds up against a wall. I had one when I lived in a studio in DC and it was brilliant. I had room for a little dining area during the day and could push everything aside to pull down the bed at night

This was the picture my new interior designer showed me when she introduced the idea yesterday.
[Linked Image]
(...and MacMacMac, there is a piano in there somewhere... look harder! wink )
Posted By: magicpiano

Re: DP for children - 08/16/19 08:33 AM

Nice minimalistic design, but I would not like having to do some stairs to go to bed. And I would not like to risk banging my head to the ceiling when I get up.
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: DP for children - 08/16/19 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by magicpiano
Nice minimalistic design, but I would not like having to do some stairs to go to bed.

This would be for the flat in Washington DC. In our maisonette in the Amsterdam grachtenpand, our bed is on the 4th floor up a very narrow and steep spiral staircase from the 3rd. So going up to bed is already 'a thing' in one place, why not make it the same in DC too?

(obligatory: ... that is, thinking of pianos as we go up the stairs to bed!)
Posted By: magicpiano

Re: DP for children - 08/16/19 09:33 AM

Sorry, but I don't like those steep spiral staircase either. They would make my head spin like... like a spiral staircase... and if I were a little tipsy after a party it could be a problem to go to bed... laugh

P.S.: I think those 5 stair steps in the above picture are better than a steep spiral staircase...
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: DP for children - 08/16/19 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by magicpiano
Sorry, but I don't like those steep spiral staircase either. They would make my head spin like... like a spiral staircase... and if I were a little tipsy after a party it could be a problem to go to bed... laugh

Fortunately, there is a handrail for those of us who are teetotaller, and I've been known to drag myself up the handrail to go to bed once or twice (or maybe a few more times! wink )

(...all while thinking of pianos, to be sure!)
Posted By: LarryK

Re: DP for children - 08/16/19 11:47 AM

Well, isn’t that last step too low and with a lamp on that step, it would only be a matter of time before I put my foot in it or kicked it off the step.

Anyway, I figured out the real solution to your problem. Sell the studio and buy a one bedroom. Voilà! Problem solved.
Posted By: MacMacMac

Re: DP for children - 08/16/19 12:06 PM

Piano World's new logo ...

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: DP for children - 08/16/19 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by LarryK
Anyway, I figured out the real solution to your problem. Sell the studio and buy a one bedroom. Voilà! Problem solved.

5 years and I will be selling the business and moving to either Paris grin or Amsterdam cry anyways (and dreaming of pianos MacMacMac... dreaming of pianos)
Posted By: LarryK

Re: DP for children - 08/16/19 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by LarryK
Anyway, I figured out the real solution to your problem. Sell the studio and buy a one bedroom. Voilà! Problem solved.

5 years and I will be selling the business and moving to either Paris grin or Amsterdam cry anyways (and dreaming of pianos MacMacMac... dreaming of pianos)


Five years is a long time to be stuck in a studio. The price differential between a studio and a one bedroom can’t be that great and DC prices aren’t as high as NYC prices.
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: DP for children - 08/16/19 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by LarryK
Anyway, I figured out the real solution to your problem. Sell the studio and buy a one bedroom. Voilà! Problem solved.

5 years and I will be selling the business and moving to either Paris grin or Amsterdam cry anyways (and dreaming of pianos MacMacMac... dreaming of pianos)


Five years is a long time to be stuck in a studio. The price differential between a studio and a one bedroom can’t be that great and DC prices aren’t as high as NYC prices.

The difference is that for my business, I actually have to live in certain areas of the city which are... um... interesting. smile And there are almost no 2 bedroom places in these areas (if I am going to move, I'd like to go straight into a 2 bedroom for the space). Also, I don't like rooms. I like open plan. I'm talking to my wife about turning our 3-room Moscow flat into a big studio with a really big bathroom complete with waterfall shower, etc and the toilets that wipe your bottom for you. wink. um... yes. and a piano. smile
Posted By: LarryK

Re: DP for children - 08/16/19 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by LarryK
Anyway, I figured out the real solution to your problem. Sell the studio and buy a one bedroom. Voilà! Problem solved.

5 years and I will be selling the business and moving to either Paris grin or Amsterdam cry anyways (and dreaming of pianos MacMacMac... dreaming of pianos)


Five years is a long time to be stuck in a studio. The price differential between a studio and a one bedroom can’t be that great and DC prices aren’t as high as NYC prices.

The difference is that for my business, I actually have to live in certain areas of the city which are... um... interesting. smile And there are almost no 2 bedroom places in these areas (if I am going to move, I'd like to go straight into a 2 bedroom for the space). Also, I don't like rooms. I like open plan. I'm talking to my wife about turning our 3-room Moscow flat into a big studio with a really big bathroom complete with waterfall shower, etc and the toilets that wipe your bottom for you. wink. um... yes. and a piano. smile


Hmmm, are you in Southeast? My recollection of DC is that there are apartments everywhere. wink You could buy a row house but those are a lot more expensive. My friend, a computer guy, now a doctor at Georgetown, and all around genius, bought a row house cheap in Shaw when things were rough. Eventually, they bought another row house in Adams Morgan, a beautiful place, but he couldn't stand doing the maintenance, and the guys who maintained his other rental properties would not maintain his home while he was living in it, lol, so, they moved out to a two bedroom in Kalorama.

I don't agree with destroying nicely laid out apartments in order to go open plan. We write off all apartments in Art Deco buildings that have had their kitchen walls torn down to open them up. Who wants kitchen grease all over the apartment? We've seen apartments where the stove, with no hood, was almost in the living room. Ridiculous! Our kitchen is sixteen feet long, has a window, and a door. With the door closed, and the overhead fan on, we can vent the cooking smells and grease to the outside and not spread it all over the apartment, especially not on the piano.

Two bedrooms in NYC are priced incredibly high because the people with kids have driven the prices way up.

I love Toto's toilets with their bidet feature and I think that toilet paper is barbaric. Unfortunately, installing a Toto washlet requires running electricity to the toilet and that is not easily done in old apartments. Plus, it's a buzz kill to be electrocuted on the toilet. Anyway, there is a portable little bidet now being funded on Indiegogo: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sonny-a-portable-bidet-for-eco-conscious-humans/x/17318633#/ They've raised a lot of money, and, yeah, I'm gambling that they can design something that works.
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: DP for children - 08/16/19 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by LarryK
I don't agree with destroying nicely laid out apartments in order to go open plan. We write off all apartments in Art Deco buildings that have had their kitchen walls torn down to open them up. Who wants kitchen grease all over the apartment? We've seen apartments where the stove, with no hood, was almost in the living room. Ridiculous! Our kitchen is sixteen feet long, has a window, and a door. With the door closed, and the overhead fan on, we can vent the cooking smells and grease to the outside and not spread it all over the apartment, especially not on the piano.

There is something much better that I would use in an open plan situation. This would take your skin off @ 2000 CFM! haha...

[Linked Image]

But, that said, my wife has been objecting to open plan - it's not an easy sell. Her problem is not the hot grease. She understands why hot grease would not survive the above monster. Her problem is that she doesn't want to smell my non-vegan food. LOL. She doesn't even allow me to eat in front of her! frown

(and to balance out the pic above, how about a digital piano pic? smile )

[Linked Image]
Posted By: MacMacMac

Re: DP for children - 08/16/19 02:24 PM

Piano World's new logo ...

[Linked Image]
Posted By: clothearednincompo

Re: DP for children - 08/16/19 02:31 PM

Also "Bathroom World" and "Toilet World" recently.

Occasionally "Carpentry World" too with people building DIY stands and "Software Engineering World" when we get all nerdy.
Posted By: LarryK

Re: DP for children - 08/16/19 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by LarryK
I don't agree with destroying nicely laid out apartments in order to go open plan. We write off all apartments in Art Deco buildings that have had their kitchen walls torn down to open them up. Who wants kitchen grease all over the apartment? We've seen apartments where the stove, with no hood, was almost in the living room. Ridiculous! Our kitchen is sixteen feet long, has a window, and a door. With the door closed, and the overhead fan on, we can vent the cooking smells and grease to the outside and not spread it all over the apartment, especially not on the piano.

There is something much better that I would use in an open plan situation. This would take your skin off @ 2000 CFM! haha...

[Linked Image]

But, that said, my wife has been objecting to open plan - it's not an easy sell. Her problem is not the hot grease. She understands why hot grease would not survive the above monster. Her problem is that she doesn't want to smell my non-vegan food. LOL. She doesn't even allow me to eat in front of her! frown

(and to balance out the pic above, how about a digital piano pic? smile )

[Linked Image]


Haha! make sure you have a vent through the wall to go along with that industrial oven hood. I bought a relatively expensive hood, one with carbon filters, and, it doesn't help cut the smells that much. I don't have a vent through the wall, unfortunately. Luckily, we have a window. We're both vegetarians, though, so we don't have a conflict over food smells and she's the one who cooks. I do the dishes.

That piano is bizarre, lol, who makes it? I have been tempted by the Peter Maly designs for Sauter but probably won't get one. This one is the Art Deco model:

[Linked Image]

Since I will never own a two bedroom apartment, or a car, or lots of other things, can I buy a nice German upright? wink
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: DP for children - 08/16/19 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by LarryK
Haha! make sure you have a vent through the wall to go along with that industrial oven hood.

If there was no vent, that skin-peeling monster would make it's own!

Originally Posted by LarryK
That piano is bizarre, lol, who makes it?

Royal Digital. Their customer base are people like my wife that think Bang & Olufsen are the bee's knees in hifi.

(The above was typed while mentally visualising a piano.)
Posted By: LarryK

Re: DP for children - 08/16/19 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by LarryK
Haha! make sure you have a vent through the wall to go along with that industrial oven hood.

If there was no vent, that skin-peeling monster would make it's own!

Originally Posted by LarryK
That piano is bizarre, lol, who makes it?

Royal Digital. Their customer base are people like my wife that think Bang & Olufsen are the bee's knees in hifi.

(The above was typed while mentally visualising a piano.)


It's funny you mention fans because I spent hours last night trying to find a decent box fan for the window and have concluded that they don't make those metal bladed monsters anymore, the ones from my youth that would chop off your arm.

So, I found the perfect fan! 21,000 CFM should ventilate the apartment and blow all of the books and papers into the hallway!

Here is the beast:

[Linked Image]

I also found a bunch of cute Russian desktop fans, some with rubber blades, probably because of the number of people winding up in the hospitals without fingers from the metal bladed models.

[Linked Image]

Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: DP for children - 08/16/19 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by LarryK
Haha! make sure you have a vent through the wall to go along with that industrial oven hood.

If there was no vent, that skin-peeling monster would make it's own!

Originally Posted by LarryK
That piano is bizarre, lol, who makes it?

Royal Digital. Their customer base are people like my wife that think Bang & Olufsen are the bee's knees in hifi.

(The above was typed while mentally visualising a piano.)


It's funny you mention fans because I spent hours last night trying to find a decent box fan for the window and have concluded that they don't make those metal bladed monsters from my youth that will chop off your arm.

So, I found the perfect fan! 21,000 CFM should ventilate the apartment and blow all of the books and papers into the hallway!

Here is the beast:

[Linked Image]

What a flying insect shredder! It would suck you through the grill! (as you are playing your piano)
Posted By: KevinM

Re: DP for children - 08/16/19 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by LarryK
I have been tempted by the Peter Maly designs for Sauter but probably won't get one. This one is the Art Deco model:

[Linked Image]

Since I will never own a two bedroom apartment, or a car, or lots of other things, can I buy a nice German upright? wink


Not the one in your picture LarryK, but when I turned up at my lesson last week there was a Sauter that had not been in the room before. An upright with a grand style action from what I understand.

I'm not allowed to play it :-(

My teacher is still waiting for it to settle in before getting it tuned. Even out of tune you can hear it has a rich mellow tone to it.

Meanwhile I have my lessons on a DP and at home I practise on a DP. At least tomorrow I get to play the concert grade grand piano at a meet up. Neither of my two pieces I'd lined up are ready for public performance, but I'm just going to play them anyway so I can enjoy the piano, be damned fellow meetup peeps.

Kevin
Posted By: LarryK

Re: DP for children - 08/16/19 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by KevinM
Originally Posted by LarryK
I have been tempted by the Peter Maly designs for Sauter but probably won't get one. This one is the Art Deco model:

[Linked Image]

Since I will never own a two bedroom apartment, or a car, or lots of other things, can I buy a nice German upright? wink


Not the one in your picture LarryK, but when I turned up at my lesson last week there was a Sauter that had not been in the room before. An upright with a grand style action from what I understand.

I'm not allowed to play it :-(

My teacher is still waiting for it to settle in before getting it tuned. Even out of tune you can hear it has a rich mellow tone to it.

Meanwhile I have my lessons on a DP and at home I practise on a DP. At least tomorrow I get to play the concert grade grand piano at a meet up. Neither of my two pieces I'd lined up are ready for public performance, but I'm just going to play them anyway so I can enjoy the piano, be damned fellow meetup peeps.

Kevin


Oh, wow, find out what model it is! I've heard such good things about Sauters that I'm tempted to buy one blind. I was thinking of the Master Class 122, that would show some restraint, wouldn't it? wink It's 48 inches high and will fit in the same place as the Yamaha. Sauters seem hard to get in the US, I can't seem to find a dealer in New York.
Posted By: KevinM

Re: DP for children - 08/16/19 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by KevinM
Originally Posted by LarryK
I have been tempted by the Peter Maly designs for Sauter but probably won't get one. This one is the Art Deco model:

[Linked Image]

Since I will never own a two bedroom apartment, or a car, or lots of other things, can I buy a nice German upright? wink


Not the one in your picture LarryK, but when I turned up at my lesson last week there was a Sauter that had not been in the room before. An upright with a grand style action from what I understand.

I'm not allowed to play it :-(

My teacher is still waiting for it to settle in before getting it tuned. Even out of tune you can hear it has a rich mellow tone to it.

Kevin


Oh, wow, find out what model it is! I've heard such good things about Sauters that I'm tempted to buy one blind. I was thinking of the Master Class 122, that would show some restraint, wouldn't it? wink It's 48 inches high and will fit in the same place as the Yamaha. Sauters seem hard to get in the US, I can't seem to find a dealer in New York.


The Sauter is deep, normally memories from your childhood make you think everything is bigger. But the Sauter looked (similar height but extra depth) and sounded massive in comparison to the upright piano I learnt on as a child.

I'd say looking at the pictures on the Sauter website it is either the Master Class 122 or 130. I'll check at my next lesson.
Posted By: MacMacMac

Re: DP for children - 08/16/19 04:13 PM

Piano World's new logo ... Hampton Bay Fan World ...

[Linked Image]
Posted By: LarryK

Re: DP for children - 08/16/19 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by KevinM
Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by KevinM
Originally Posted by LarryK
I have been tempted by the Peter Maly designs for Sauter but probably won't get one. This one is the Art Deco model:

[Linked Image]

Since I will never own a two bedroom apartment, or a car, or lots of other things, can I buy a nice German upright? wink


Not the one in your picture LarryK, but when I turned up at my lesson last week there was a Sauter that had not been in the room before. An upright with a grand style action from what I understand.

I'm not allowed to play it :-(

My teacher is still waiting for it to settle in before getting it tuned. Even out of tune you can hear it has a rich mellow tone to it.

Kevin


Oh, wow, find out what model it is! I've heard such good things about Sauters that I'm tempted to buy one blind. I was thinking of the Master Class 122, that would show some restraint, wouldn't it? wink It's 48 inches high and will fit in the same place as the Yamaha. Sauters seem hard to get in the US, I can't seem to find a dealer in New York.


The Sauter is deep, normally memories from your childhood make you think everything is bigger. But the Sauter looked (similar height but extra depth) and sounded massive in comparison to the upright piano I learnt on as a child.

I'd say looking at the pictures on the Sauter website it is either the Master Class 122 or 130. I'll check at my next lesson.



I looked at the specs on Sauter’s website and it says the Master Class 122 is 60cm/23.6 inches deep, which is actually slightly shallower than my rented 1975 Yamaha U1 which is 24 1/2” deep. The MC 130 is 61cm deep.
Posted By: magicpiano

Re: DP for children - 08/16/19 06:09 PM

There are some moments in your daily life when you are very inspired. Such moments are so precious, you don't have to wast them just for some little urgent need.

[img]https://preview.redd.it/yg5ottwi40r...f8af8a4fd4b56e20ef083c6cbcdc6ebd8850088f[/img]

P.S.: I don't know why the image is not shown directly, but the link should work.
Posted By: EPW

Re: DP for children - 08/16/19 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by magicpiano
There are some moments in your daily life when you are very inspired. Such moments are so precious, you don't have to wast them just for some little urgent need.

[img]https://preview.redd.it/yg5ottwi40r...f8af8a4fd4b56e20ef083c6cbcdc6ebd8850088f[/img]

P.S.: I don't know why the image is not shown directly, but the link should work.


That is taking Piano to a whole new level. I feel sorry for the piano tuner LOL
Posted By: LarryK

Re: DP for children - 08/16/19 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by magicpiano
There are some moments in your daily life when you are very inspired. Such moments are so precious, you don't have to wast them just for some little urgent need.

[img]https://preview.redd.it/yg5ottwi40r...f8af8a4fd4b56e20ef083c6cbcdc6ebd8850088f[/img]

P.S.: I don't know why the image is not shown directly, but the link should work.


If you get the Image Address and cut off everything including and after the question mark, it should display the image.

The piano is still too far from the throne!
Posted By: magicpiano

Re: DP for children - 08/16/19 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by LarryK

If you get the Image Address and cut off everything including and after the question mark, it should display the image.
Unfortunately whatever you remove after the question mark, the image will not be shown. Maybe it's a protection to disallow to directly link an image from other sites.
Quote

The piano is still too far from the throne!
But with a little effort the pianist can get there. And maybe the effort could help him to sh** better.
Posted By: EPW

Re: DP for children - 08/16/19 07:58 PM

The piano should be on wheels to bring closer to the Throne laugh
Posted By: MacMacMac

Re: DP for children - 08/16/19 09:09 PM

That picture just begs for a "Caption That Photo" contest.
Posted By: Egret

Re: DP for children - 08/16/19 09:43 PM

guys, you have a lot of fun here)))
I’ll bring in a little piano again.
What do you say about HP 601?
it is a little more expensive than RP 501 (for $ 300 - this is the rest at all, it is necessary to clarify), but is it better?
But of course it bothers me that it is discontinued, but in some places you can find it in the warehouse.

Is it worth it to buy a piano if it is no longer being produced anymore?


My thought was to get a PHA50 action for not too much money and perhaps a good sound engine too.
But may be I'm wrong
Posted By: caribou3

Re: DP for children - 08/16/19 10:02 PM

Did you look at the new HP704 ? It has the PHA50 action and good speakers !!!!
Posted By: Egret

Re: DP for children - 08/16/19 10:21 PM

caribou3

as I wrote, it makes no sense to watch me)) I don’t understand anything, I don’t play
(but these torments with the choice of the piano made me remember my childhood dream and now I plan to take lessons too (lol)

Initially, I aimed at the LX 705
But now it has lowered the price, since LX 705 will be redundant for me and my daughter, as I understood from this topic.
Therefore, I look just cheaper.
HP 704 costs 2050
LX 705 - 2200
I think it would be better to pay 150 dollars more and get an extra charge
HP 601 costs 1550.
500/650 dollars difference ... substantially
this was my initial torment whether it is worth overpaying for a beginner
Posted By: Morten Olsson

Re: DP for children - 08/16/19 10:23 PM

The PHA50 action is definitely really really good and I like the sound of the 601 as well - quite a few people actually prefer it to the modeled engines.
I’d say it’s definately a worthwhile upgrade to the RP.
Posted By: EPW

Re: DP for children - 08/16/19 10:24 PM

With Roland Modeled sound it seems either you like it or you don't. If you're one of the ones that don't like the way Roland Modeled piano sounds you would be better looking at Yamaha or Kawai pianos. Buy the one that sounds best to you.
Posted By: Morten Olsson

Re: DP for children - 08/16/19 10:49 PM

Not all Roland are modeled though.
Posted By: caribou3

Re: DP for children - 08/17/19 12:04 AM

Oh wow here in Canada the Lx is few thousand more than the Hp not 150. That is why I choose it and also because I could do a rent to own program. So no big commitment at the beginning but if in one year my son really enjoys his lessons I could pay it off and save on the interest of the rent to own program. Or after 3 year I own a piano that will be good enough for a very long time.
Posted By: Egret

Re: DP for children - 08/18/19 06:39 PM

we still haven't bought a piano)))
but today we stopped at a store to look again.
unfortunately, there was no Kawai (except the most expensive and we did not watch them), but there were Yamaha (YDP 164, CLP 645)
 and Roland (RP 501, HP 603, LX 705)
My daughter went from one to the other, played her simple songs, pressed the bass and the top notes (I watched her and it was all very amazing and funny to me))))
Between 164 and 645 she chose 645
Between 603 and 501, she first chose 603, but then changed her mind and chose 501.
Surprisingly, she didn’t even look at 705, tried it and passed by and never returned to it.
As a result, her rating looks like this:
CLP 645
RP 501
HP 603 and YDP 164 (they are somewhere nearby ... although here I “spoiled” her opinion from 164 a bit, making a hint about heavy keys)

I'm glad that in general she liked RP 501 ...
if there wasn’t such a big price difference between CLP 645 and RP 501, she would get her first place, but second place in the rating is also good)))
Posted By: Morten Olsson

Re: DP for children - 08/18/19 06:46 PM

It’s great that you are so supportive and that you have taken the time to try out different options.
If I’m not mistaken the RP 501 is the console version of the F140 which was my first piano - great choice - it should serve you for years to come.
© 2019 Piano World Piano & Digital Piano Forums