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Posted By: Kawai James Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/07/19 06:53 AM
Hello folks,

Here's some new product information that may be of interest:

Quote
Kawai Japan is extremely proud to announce the NV5, the latest addition to Kawai’s premium NOVUS series of hybrid pianos, and the second instrument in the line-up following the award-winning NV10 launched in late 2017.

This stylish upright model utilises the same Millennium III keyboard action as that of Kawai’s highly-regarded ‘K’ series professional upright pianos, with high-precision optical sensors detecting the movement of each hybrid hammer. As with the first Novus instrument, the NV5 includes a real acoustic piano damper mechanism, preserving the important physical connection between the keyboard and pedals to ensure the most authentic playing experience possible.

Read more...


Kawai Global website: NV5 product page

Kind regards,
James
x
NOVUS NV5 Main Features

  • Millennium III Hybrid upright piano keyboard action with optical hammer sensing system
  • Real upright piano damper mechanism for true key and pedal weighting
  • SK-EX Rendering sound engine with multi-channel piano sampling
  • Premium audio processing, amplification, and speaker technologies powered by Onkyo
  • 3rd generation TwinDrive Soundboard Speaker system featuring Onkyo transducers
  • Integrated Bluetooth® MIDI and audio for wireless communication with smart devices
  • Modern 5″ LCD touchscreen display with intuitive swipe operation
  • Flexible Virtual Technician function with 19 adjustable parameters
  • Convenient WAV/MP3/MIDI file record and playback via USB memory
  • Attractive topboard speaker cover crafted by Danish textile house Kvadrat
  • Stunning ebony polish cabinet design with Soft Fall fallboard system


NOVUS NV5 Videos

Posted By: CyberGene Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/07/19 07:10 AM
It’s a nice instrument! Soundboard and real dampers is a nice addition over the competing NU1X, as is optical sensing on the hammers. However there’s still no binaural and USB-interface. Hopefully the price will be close to NU1X and not the N1X though.
Posted By: Harpuia Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/07/19 07:12 AM
I noticed that Kawai has changed the hammer head material. Is it because NV10 has loose hammer issue?
Posted By: Harpuia Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/07/19 07:14 AM
Originally Posted by CyberGene
It’s a nice instrument! Soundboard and real dampers is a nice addition over the competing NU1X, as is optical sensing on the hammers. However there’s still no binaural and USB-interface. Hopefully the price will be close to NU1X and not the N1X though.


The MSRP of N1X and NV5 in Japanese official website is exactly the same so I think that's the price that in Kawai's mind smile
Originally Posted by CyberGene
It’s a nice instrument! Soundboard and real dampers is a nice addition over the competing NU1X, as is optical sensing on the hammers.


Agreed. wink

Originally Posted by CyberGene
However there’s still no binaural and USB-interface.


Correct. The NV5 uses the same hardware platform as the NV10.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: JoBert Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/07/19 07:16 AM
Nice!

Exactly what I have been expecting after the teaser last week. So to quote myself from there:

Originally Posted by JoBert
... such an upright Novus would have the CA98 tech (pianist mode, touch screen, soundboard) mated to an acoustic upright action.


I'm also doubling down on the other part of the prediction I made there:

Originally Posted by JoBert
... I'm speculating that Kawai may not come out with a CS12 (i.e. CS version of CA98) at all, but instead fill that gap with an upright Novus.

This NV5 does indeed fill the gap that was left by the non-appearance of the CS12 nicely.

I'm seeing other indications for this too:

Consider what the CS11 was in relation to the CA97: Apart from some minor differences under the hood, that were not really obvious to the user, the CS11 had two main differences vs. the CA97: It came in a (small) acoustic cabinet, and it came with polished ebony (PE) finish.

However, with the CA98, Kawai made the step of already offering the PE finish for that piano (it was never offered for the CA97). So that would have left the acoustic cabinet as the only differentiating factor between the CA98 and the CS12.

Much more sense to put in another, much more important, differentiating factor: The Millennium III action.

So the top model in the purely digital line is now the CA98PE. And above that begins the hybrid line with the NV5.

From a product line POV, that makes a lot of sense to me. But putting a CS12 between these two would now totally not make sense. Which is why I think there won't be a CS12.

Plus, James already said in another thread:

Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by wheelbarrow
So my question is whether it’s silly to buy the older model at this point. If I do then Kawai will probably release a CS12 the next day ...

I obviously cannot go into too much detail, however rest assured that this will not happen.

So James confirms that there won't be a CS12 soon. But the longer the CS12 isn't coming out, the less sense it makes, now that the NV5 is here. Ergo my prediction that there won't be one at all. So now let's see if I'll have to eat my words in a few months. smile
Originally Posted by Harpuia
I noticed that Kawai has changed the hammer head material. Is it because NV10 has loose hammer issue?


I gather that the NV5 designer wished to create a new design for the ABS hammer head.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/07/19 07:21 AM
The cabinet is not from existing K-series, right? To me it seems slimmer, similar to NU1X and I like that a lot. Seems like a very desirable piano smile If that was released before I started my adventure with the NU1X I might have bought it and stay with Kawai but I’m not sorry since I ended up with the N1X which is a dream smile But the NV5 will be a best seller IMO.
Jobert, nice detective work. wink
Posted By: robinlb Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/07/19 07:27 AM
As expected, it's an Upright action CA98/CS11.
Maybe next NV11 is a soundboard version of NV10.
Originally Posted by CyberGene
The cabinet is not from existing K-series, right?


It follows the sane design cues as the K-x00 series, but is slimmer - just 46 cm deep, and the legs do not have a toe-block.

[Linked Image]

For comparison, the K-200 is 57 cm deep.

Kind regards,
James
x
Originally Posted by robinlb
Maybe next NV11 is a soundboard version of NV10.


I think a multiple of 5 would be more suitable...
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/07/19 07:33 AM
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by robinlb
Maybe next NV11 is a soundboard version of NV10.


I think a multiple of 5 would be more suitable...

We have a confirmation for a NV15 from James, folks! laugh
Posted By: Harpuia Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/07/19 07:33 AM
I suspect that a grand action with soundboard must be done in a form close to N3. If we add vertical soundboard to NV10/N1/N2 then the piano becomes cumbersome like a square piano from 100 years ago.
Posted By: navindra Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/07/19 07:42 AM
Congratulations James and Kawai on the beautiful release of the NV5!

I'm glad I have more time to enjoy the NV10 before the NV20 comes out!
Interesting and welcome addition to compete against the NU1X, which as an NU1 owner I found hardly worth bothering with. The alleged perceived difficulties with the NV10 user interface make me hesitant, but only to the extent I would want to check it out for myself. Something to look forward to trying out when it hits the shops.
Did anyone spot this in the NV5 promo video:

[Linked Image]

Can you tell what it is? wink
Posted By: Harpuia Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/07/19 07:56 AM
Is it the damper mechanism?
Posted By: JoBert Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/07/19 07:57 AM
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Can you tell what it is? wink

Pedal lever and damper rod, I would say.

Alternatively, the tip of KJ's billard queue, after a night out in Hamamatsu's billard halls. laugh
Posted By: Harpuia Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/07/19 08:06 AM
Can we say that NV5 will sound exactly like CA98 when using the soundboard? I'm interested to hear people that have tried CA98 or CS11 to see how the soundboard speaker system compares with something like Yamaha N2/N3X or Roland LX708, or even K200 Aures and U1 Transacoustic?
Originally Posted by Harpuia
Is it the damper mechanism?


Yes, part of it. wink

Originally Posted by JoBert
Pedal lever and damper rod, I would say.


Wow, you have good eyes!

...or did you just increase the brightness of the picture. wink
Originally Posted by Harpuia
Can we say that NV5 will sound exactly like CA98 when using the soundboard?


No, not really. The sound engine and speaker system is the same, however the speaker positioning and the overall cabinet size and construction is different.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: JoBert Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/07/19 08:16 AM
This:
Originally Posted by Kawai James
...or did you just increase the brightness of the picture. wink
grin
Posted By: tblb Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/07/19 08:18 AM
Does the transducers are the same than those on aures piano ?
Posted By: Harpuia Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/07/19 08:19 AM
With the real upright pedal lever and damper rod, the pedal should feel more real than an N1X! Does it come with a real upright soft pedal?
Originally Posted by tblb
Does the transducers are the same than those on aures piano ?


I believe the parts are the same, however AURES instruments use four transducers (two big, two small), whereas the NV5 (and CA98) use two transducers (one big, one small).

Kind regards,
James
x
Originally Posted by Harpuia
With the real upright pedal lever and damper rod, the pedal should feel more real than an N1X! Does it come with a real upright soft pedal?


No, only the damper pedal is connected to the action.
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/07/19 08:39 AM
Since there are no strings, why is there a "mechanism" for the damper pedal?
The NV-5 is a lovely piano and it continues the differentiating feature of Kawai's authentic damper mechanism in the Novus series. I will be waiting for the NV-15! smile Although it's looking like there's a good chance the NV-15 wouldn't have binaural sound either.

Originally Posted by Kawai James
NOVUS NV5 Videos


But can we discuss a serious issue? How does Mina Koike pedal with such high heels? Lola Astanova's aren't that much higher! wink
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/07/19 08:54 AM
Because this is a promotional vidieo perhaps?
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
But can we discuss a serious issue? How does Mina Koike pedal with such high heels? Lola Astanova's aren't that much higher! wink
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/07/19 08:55 AM
TS: While we're at it ... this NV5 has an upright action. Your N1X has a grand action, am I right?
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Since there are no strings, why is there a "mechanism" for the damper pedal?


From the first link:

Quote
In addition to featuring a full acoustic upright piano keyboard action, the Novus NV5 also incorporates a real upright piano damper mechanism. While there are no strings inside the NV5 to require physical damping, this unique feature replicates the true weighting of an acoustic piano damper pedal, while also mechanically easing the keyboard action’s touch weight as the pedal is pressed – an important acoustic piano characteristic that only Novus instruments are able to reproduce.


Kind regards,
James
x
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
TS: While we're at it ... this NV5 has an upright action. Your N1X has a grand action, am I right?

The N1X has a grand action. That's why I'd wait to see the NV-15 before thinking about any upgrades. Also, if the NV-15 is only an NV-10 with a soundboard and still no binaural sound, I'd likely not upgrade even then because a soundboard is just not useful to me living in the city with anti-piano activists running amok as neighbours!
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/07/19 09:15 AM
I'm wondering if the real damper mechanism and the changing weight of the keys (depending on whether they also push the dampers or not) are really a good thing. They emulate the real piano behavior which is the main point, and it's a fair point. However they present a challenge for the pianist who needs to dynamically alter his touch depending on whether damper is pressed, since one and same force applied to they key will result in different velocity of the hammer, because of the different weight, that ultimately contributes to different static and dynamic weight. I mean, if piano builders had the chance to remove that particular artifact, they would have done so, wouldn't they? I'm not going to argue an AvantGrand piano is better without real dampers and apparently it would make it easier for pianists to switch between it and real pianos, however on the other side a pianist would be able to play more expressively when the static and dynamic weights are fixed and he doesn't need to constantly cope with those changes. Maybe the best solution would be to have those dampers and the rod but be able to mechanically disengage it and thus make the key weighting fixed and predictable, hence easier to control.
Originally Posted by CyberGene
I'm wondering if the real damper mechanism and the changing weight of the keys (depending on whether they also push the dampers or not) are really a good thing. They emulate the real piano behavior which is the main point, and it's a fair point. However they present a challenge for the pianist who needs to dynamically alter his touch depending on whether damper is pressed, since one and same force applied to they key will result in different velocity of the hammer, because of the different weight, that ultimately contributes to different static and dynamic weight. I mean, if piano builders had the chance to remove that particular artifact, they would have done so, wouldn't they? I'm not going to argue an AvantGrand piano is better without real dampers and apparently it would make it easier for pianists to switch between it and real pianos, however on the other side a pianist would be able to play more expressively when the static and dynamic weights are fixed and he doesn't need to constantly cope with those changes. Maybe the best solution would be to have those dampers and the rod but be able to mechanically disengage it and thus make the key weighting fixed and predictable, hence easier to control.

I agree completely, and it belongs in my old thread on this topic which I am going to revived by adding your observation!
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/07/19 09:26 AM
Thanks. So ... with an upright action the NV5 won't be on my list.

And since both the NV10 and N1X have a grand action ... price comparison becomes a consideration for me.
Here are the US selling prices from the prices paid thread:
Code
NV10
. 9750. . Feb 2018. . CA
.10999. . May 2018. . MI
.10000. . Jun 2018. . CA
. 9999. . Jan 2019. . WI
. 8128. . Jan 2019. . CA
. 9000. . Jul 2019. . PA

N1X
. 7200. . Feb 2019. . IL
. 8776. . Mar 2019. . PA
. 8664. . May 2019. . MD
. 8200. . Jul 2019. . NY

The Yamaha has a big edge on price. I've really must find a shop that shows one.
CyberGene, one of the Novus' goals is to reproduce the keyboard touch of an acoustic piano as closely as possible, hence the inclusion of the damper mechanism.

Grade-weighted hammers are also not necessary, but are a characteristic of acoustic pianos and therefore reproduced in the Novus instruments (and most other digital pianos).

Kind regards,
James
x
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Thanks. So ... with an upright action the NV5 won't be on my list.

And since both the NV10 and N1X have a grand action ... price comparison becomes a consideration for me.
Here are the US selling prices from the prices paid thread:
Code
NV10
. 9750. . Feb 2018. . CA
.10999. . May 2018. . MI
.10000. . Jun 2018. . CA
. 9999. . Jan 2019. . WI
. 8128. . Jan 2019. . CA
. 9000. . Jul 2019. . PA

N1X
. 7200. . Feb 2019. . IL
. 8776. . Mar 2019. . PA
. 8664. . May 2019. . MD
. 8200. . Jul 2019. . NY

The Yamaha has a big edge on price. I've really must find a shop that shows one.

In my opinion, for that price difference, the main thing one gives up with the Avantgrand is the authentic damper pedal action (discussed by CyberGene, above).

As an audiophile, I think the binaural sound of N1X is a make/break feature. But this is also probably because 80+% of the time, I use headphones with my piano. Someone who mostly plays their piano without headphones would likely not care about the binaural sound feature of the N1X/N3X.
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Grade-weighted hammers are also not necessary, but are a characteristic of acoustic pianos and therefore reproduced in the Novus instruments (and most other digital pianos).

Yes, toddy brought up graded weighting as a feature only meant to simulate acoustical pianos in my old thread. That thread contains a lot of other common digital piano "features" which would never have existed except that digital pianos try to simulate acoustical pianos as close as possible, for better or worse.
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

As an audiophile, I think the binaural sound of N1X is a make/break feature. But this is also probably because 80+% of the time, I use headphones with my piano. Someone who mostly plays their piano without headphones would likely not care about the binaural sound feature of the N1X/N3X.


Hey, don't forget to include the NU1X in that list as well! If we are talking about comparisons and price the NU1X is best comparison and it appears to be a few thousand less in the US. Of course the new NV5 appears to give you the gazillion features that other DP's have and the Avante Grande series does not. Along with the soundboard.
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/07/19 10:30 AM
I think the much more important feature of NV5 is optical sensors on the hammers. That would truthfully measure the actual velocity of the hammers. NU1X measures velocity under the keys and that's why it's difficult to predict whether the hammers is actually hitting the rail, hence the loud note issue. That issue has since been fixed (?) or at least alleviated but I would prefer a solution with hammer sensors since that's the most natural way to measure hammer velocity: at the hammers, right smile That doesn't make NU1X not expressive enough or something and with the supposed fix they should be on par, however for a peace of mind the NV5 offers the better solution. Well, there's one advantage with key sensors and that's the ability to measure key-off velocity (which in the NU1X is actually more elaborate than that since it measures continuous position of the key/damper and would produce effect such as half-dampening through the keys, in addition to the more ubiquitous damper-pedal one).

Originally Posted by Kawai James
CyberGene, one of the Novus' goals is to reproduce the keyboard touch of an acoustic piano as closely as possible, hence the inclusion of the damper mechanism

Sure, as I said that's a fair point. The graded hammer weighting is also a feature that's of dubious advantage to the pianist. On the other hand it's a fixed weight that won't change dynamically, whereas with the dampers you have changing weight for each key throughout your playing. I guess one easily gets used to it, most of us have played real uprights and grands and never thought of that smile So, I was just hypothesizing and sorry for intruding this thread which is about a very nice new instrument. Let's move to the other one created by TS.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/07/19 10:53 AM
Originally Posted by navindra
Congratulations James and Kawai on the beautiful release of the NV5!

I'm glad I have more time to enjoy the NV10 before the NV20 comes out!


It’s called the NV15, navindra. wink
I wouldn't hold "binaural audio" as an important requirement for a digital piano or VI.

Most binaural music and piano sound systems are lousy; there is plenty of binaural audio on the internet to try for yourself. You can test drive PianoTeq's binaural system. Binaural audio production is difficult and the type of headphone and ear shape have a major impact on the binaural effect.

That said, the new Yamaha CFX binaural system is well liked. I would speculate that is due principally to excellent recording and processing vs. the "binaural audio" effect. Kawai's newest audio is well liked also.

Another case to try out several different models (with several different headphones) to decide what is best for you regarding action and sound.
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/07/19 03:46 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14


It’s called the NV15, navindra. wink


James only said it would likely be a "multiple of 5." NV-20 fits that just as well as NV-15 smile

Originally Posted by newer player
I wouldn't hold "binaural audio" as an important requirement for a digital piano or VI.


That's kind of what I'm thinking. There are a lot of poor binaural implementations out there, and some really excellent plain stereo renderings. Seeing all the talk in the N1X thread about how pivotal binaural sampling is, i'm left wondering whether people are actually impressed with the binaural aspect of it, or if Yamaha produced a really nice patch that just happens to be binaural, but would be just as impressive non-binaurally?
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/07/19 03:49 PM
Indeed, I've tried the binaural patch in Garritan CFX and it's meh. And the regular stereo classic patch is so nice through headphones. So, it's not whether it's binaural, it's just that Yamaha probably created a great patch. But you can't deny how many people (me included) share the same weird feeling of needing to check whether the sound they hear is actually coming from the headphones or they forgot the speakers on. I still do that from time to time. Which comes to prove the binaural effect is working.
Originally Posted by Gombessa
[That's kind of what I'm thinking. There are a lot of poor binaural implementations out there, and some really excellent plain stereo renderings. Seeing all the talk in the N1X thread about how pivotal binaural sampling is, i'm left wondering whether people are actually impressed with the binaural aspect of it, or if Yamaha produced a really nice patch that just happens to be binaural?

Have you listened to it yourself? CFX through N1X's internal speakers are.... ok. meh. I've said before I prefer the piano sounds of the NV10 through speakers. CFX through my HD800 headphones are awesome. Headphone to headphone comparison between NV10 and N1X - for me, the N1X through headphones is clearly much better.

I assessed first-hand both speakers sound and headphone sound of the NV10 and N1X before I bought my N1X, and the binaural sound decided me. It was that much better.
Posted By: navindra Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/07/19 03:53 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
Originally Posted by navindra
Congratulations James and Kawai on the beautiful release of the NV5!

I'm glad I have more time to enjoy the NV10 before the NV20 comes out!


It’s called the NV15, navindra. wink


laugh I’m thinking NV20 or NV30 first. NV15 might come afterwards if Kawai wants to expand the line up.
Posted By: BradleyG Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/07/19 04:03 PM
Oh man. Time to convince my wife that we need both an upstairs piano and a downstairs piano. Seriously, this looks like a wonderful instrument. I can’t wait to try one out. Congrats James and Kawai!
Posted By: pianogabe Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/07/19 04:46 PM
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Hopefully the price will be close to NU1X and not the N1X though.


A piano store in the Netherlands lists the NV-5 for € 6180. For comparison the same store sells the NU1X for € 4380 and the N1X for € 7480. See prices. So it is approximately in between. This will probably be similar in the rest of Europe.
Originally Posted by pianogabe
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Hopefully the price will be close to NU1X and not the N1X though.


A piano store in the Netherlands lists the NV-5 for € 6180. For comparison the same store sells the NU1X for € 4380 and the N1X for € 7480. See prices. So it is approximately in between. This will probably be similar in the rest of Europe.

Although it lacks binaural sound, it has an authentic damper pedal and a soundboard, which may justify the 40% price premium over the N1UX.
Posted By: U3piano Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/07/19 05:07 PM
I do love this move from Kawai! cool

Finally a true competitor to the NU1X, I think that's great! I can't wait to try it out and see which one I like better.

One thing i already like is the design, i like the design without toeblocks even tough it's probably a bit more fragile, if you have kids for example. It looks great, that said.. personally i like the real acoustic cabinet from the CS11 even better, but they are both beautiful to me so no dealbreakers there. In my opinion the NV10 is the best looker out of the hybrid grands too, Kawai got the looks down, if you ask me.

I also very much appreciate the real damper system. Too early to jump to conclusions, but maybe that would make this the best digital (upright) piano if your goal is to practice playing acoustic as well as possible?
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by pianogabe
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Hopefully the price will be close to NU1X and not the N1X though.


A piano store in the Netherlands lists the NV-5 for € 6180. For comparison the same store sells the NU1X for € 4380 and the N1X for € 7480. See prices. So it is approximately in between. This will probably be similar in the rest of Europe.

Although it lacks binaural sound, it has an authentic damper pedal and a soundboard, which may justify the 40% price premium over the N1UX.


It will be interesting to try it out, of course that assumes that I ever come across a Kawai dealer that would actually stock such a thing. Not sure about the damper pedal but for me when I was comparing the CA78 to CA98 I didn't think the soundboard was worth the additional cost. Definitely not worth a 40% premium.

For me I think the big difference is that it has all of the other stuff as far as controls and voices and such along with a touch screen. The NU1X UI, if you can call it that, is spartan at best. I actually like it because all I ever do is just turn it on and play but I know for a lot of people the lack of the other options is a deal breaker. Still nice to have another hybrid upright out there. I wonder how long until the Kawai N3X competitor is released? Can you say NV15?
Posted By: ADWyatt Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/07/19 05:49 PM
Originally Posted by oneilt130
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

As an audiophile, I think the binaural sound of N1X is a make/break feature. But this is also probably because 80+% of the time, I use headphones with my piano. Someone who mostly plays their piano without headphones would likely not care about the binaural sound feature of the N1X/N3X.


Hey, don't forget to include the NU1X in that list as well! If we are talking about comparisons and price the NU1X is best comparison and it appears to be a few thousand less in the US. Of course the new NV5 appears to give you the gazillion features that other DP's have and the Avante Grande series does not. Along with the soundboard.


Good points, well worth thinking about for people who are considering a future mid-range piano purchase. In our rural state in the U.S. there isn't a single store that yet stocks the NU1X, but I've played the NU1 and I rather liked it. Obviously the NU1X would be better, and is probably worth the $6,000 USD that its selling for, but there's one drawback to it that I'm not happy about--its limited voice selection. If I'm going to keep a new digital piano for as much as eight years before upgrading, this is going to be really irritating. Assuming the NV5 measures up (which I'm sure it will) that drawback will be nicely addressed.

If the NV5 is priced within $500 of the NU1X in America, I'll try both models out extensively, and I think Kawai is going to have the upper hand. It means driving hundreds of miles to a major city to find these pianos, but there's nothing to be done about it.
Posted By: Chrispy Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/07/19 07:21 PM
Since James confirmed (j/k) that the N3X was the best hybrid grand *for now*, I'd put money on that coming out as the NV20 rather than the NV15. Knowing marketing folks as I do, 20 sounds more like a "1-up" over the NV10. So there you go, my prediction is the next Novus to come out will be the NV20 which will be a grand cabinet with Millennium III action and then "something" else added to make it more compelling than just a cabinet change. A haptic vibration system perhaps?
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/07/19 07:33 PM
I wouldn't expect any follow-on NV pianos for a while. The NV10 hasn't been out two years yet, and the NV5 hasn't even shipped.

Look at the Avant Grand line. Three main tiers with two or three revision/replacements over a span of about ten years.

I don't think the next NV is imminent. The market won't support too many ... and Kawai knows it.
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I wouldn't expect any follow-on NV pianos for a while. The NV10 hasn't been out two years yet, and the NV5 hasn't even shipped.

Look at the Avant Grand line. Three main tiers with two or three revision/replacements over a span of about ten years.

I don't think the next NV is imminent. The market won't support too many ... and Kawai knows it.

Well, for the Avantgrands the press releases for the different models were dated:
  • N2 & N3: May 7, 2009
  • N1: Jan 13, 2011
  • NU1: Sep 17, 2012
  • N3X: Jan 19, 2017
  • NU1X: Jan 25, 2018
  • N1X: Jan 24, 2019

So the initial 4 models of the Avantgrand were announced over a span of 40 months. For Kawai, the NV10 was announced Oct 20, 2017 and the NV5 was announced today - so 2 models in the Novus line over 22 months. So there certainly seems to be room to release another, probably more advanced Novus, in the next 12-18 months. Say an NV10 but with the addition of a soundboard, and maybe a bell or two more. This would not be a replacement of the NV10, but a new product like the NV5 - one at the higher end. There might be a reasonable hope by the time of your retirement, there might be an NV15 or NV20 kicking around.
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/07/19 09:10 PM
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Have you listened to it yourself? CFX through N1X's internal speakers are.... ok. meh. I've said before I prefer the piano sounds of the NV10 through speakers. CFX through my HD800 headphones are awesome. Headphone to headphone comparison between NV10 and N1X - for me, the N1X through headphones is clearly much better.


Is the binaural output on the N3X as well? If so, then I have. If not, then no.

But your question doesn't really get at what I was positing--is it the "binaural" nature of the AGs that people like so much, or is it just the quality of the patch? Whether I've heard or liked the binaural output on the AG is somewhat irrelevant, IMO. Some seem to be quick to list "lack of binuaral sound" as a minus on the Novuses (Novi?), but that feature could be completely orthogonal to what they actually want (a realistic, convincing piano sound through headphones, perhaps one that they like better than the existing SK-EX rendering output, even if it's traditionally recorded). Again, taking Garritan CFX as an example, I tried the binaural recording perspective one, and never bothered to use it again. So if that was the patch included in the NV5, it would fulfill "binaural audio" requirement, but perhaps still end up being "meh."
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/07/19 09:36 PM
I think someone confirmed (maybe even Jeff Hurchalla) that the binaural patch in Gartitan CFX is messed up with distant and close microphones having swapped left/right channels which is the reason for it not sounding good. And the binaural Nord patch is a big hit. So I think “binaural” might be good exactly because it’s binaural. Pianoteq isn’t a good example because they have other more important things to improve, so their binaural mics might not be representative (or well implemented at all) on how good binaural is.
Originally Posted by CyberGene
I think someone confirmed (maybe even Jeff Hurchalla) that the binaural patch in Gartitan CFX is messed up with distant and close microphones having swapped left/right channels which is the reason for it not sounding good.

Wow! That would completely trash it! But if they have the original recordings from each mic, am I wrong in thinking they could fix this?
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/07/19 09:44 PM
My memory is fading but I think it was newer_player who first discovered it. He fixed it by loading two instances where each one has only one set of the microphones and then swapping the left-right of only one of them and claiming it improved it drastically. Haven’t tried it myself. And then Jeff admitted that he discovered one of the mic sets was indeed swapped during the development and so he fixed it but his other words were around the lines of “I’m not sure whether I kept the proper (swapped) set for the final version, I may have forgotten to do so, need to check that again” and we never heard from him about that.
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/07/19 09:55 PM
Found it, here’s Jeff’s reply
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/07/19 11:21 PM
IIRC you only have to load two instances if you use close and ambient mics together. If you use ambient only (which I think is the actual binaural recording) you can just mute the close mics and flip the perspective to audience. Did I remember that correctly or was there some element to the close.mics which are binaural as well?
Originally Posted by Gombessa
IIRC you only have to load two instances if you use close and ambient mics together. If you use ambient only (which I think is the actual binaural recording) you can just mute the close mics and flip the perspective to audience. Did I remember that correctly or was there some element to the close.mics which are binaural as well?

I think this is correct.

The binaural head mics are KU100 (full>player>default). The KU100 are the ambient channels so you could just mute the close KM84 channels. I suppose that should provide the most "binaural" sound of all and mixing in other mics spoils the "binaural" effect.

Regardless, I preferred mixing in other mics at lower "volumes" with the KU100.

The channel swapping quesiton relating to the binaural mics is clear as day to me. But Garritans tech people looked at that on a technical phone call and politely disagreed providing some technical explainations. The opinion at PianoWorld is split. You should try and decide which you prefer; just run two instances of Garritan and the simple test will take 5 minutes.

But it doesn't matter much to me in the end. I typically use the full>classic>default (with very minor tweaks that are popular here) or more recently rach3master's nice settings.

https://www.garritan.com/blog/abbey-road-cfx-concert-grand-player-perspective/
Originally Posted by Kawai James
It follows the sane design cues as the K-x00 series [...]


I'm glad Kawai didn't go for insane design cues. laugh

(And this isn't only a joke on the supposed typo. The design is fine.)
lol, whoops!
Posted By: HwyStar Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/08/19 12:50 PM
^^^ Grammarly works great at catching those kinds of typos. Maybe not that typo though.

Update: Grammarly caught that typo. I use it in the Brave or Chrome browser and it really helps catch silly mistakes.
Nice! Maybe I can convince my girlfriend to trade in her Kawai acoustic for the NV5 ;0
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/08/19 02:29 PM
Originally Posted by newer player
[The opinion at PianoWorld is split. You should try and decide which you prefer; just run two instances of Garritan and the simple test will take 5 minutes.

But it doesn't matter much to me in the end. I typically use the full>classic>default (with very minor tweaks that are popular here) or more recently rach3master's nice settings.


Yeah, I'm typically quite sensitive to/experienced with binaural effects, and I'm solidly in the "split" category--in the sense that I can't decide whether performer or audience on the ambient channel is correct. The binaural effect, if any, is quite subtle to begin with, and doesn't have really clear stereo separation (which is kind of how a real piano is if you sit further away I think).

Even after trying each, I also just threw up my hands and defaulted to the Classic/Full as well.
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by newer player
[The opinion at PianoWorld is split. You should try and decide which you prefer; just run two instances of Garritan and the simple test will take 5 minutes.

But it doesn't matter much to me in the end. I typically use the full>classic>default (with very minor tweaks that are popular here) or more recently rach3master's nice settings.


Yeah, I'm typically quite sensitive to/experienced with binaural effects, and I'm solidly in the "split" category--in the sense that I can't decide whether performer or audience on the ambient channel is correct. The binaural effect, if any, is quite subtle to begin with, and doesn't have really clear stereo separation (which is kind of how a real piano is if you sit further away I think).

Even after trying each, I also just threw up my hands and defaulted to the Classic/Full as well.

I wonder if it would be possible to figure it out using an analysis tool?
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Yeah, I'm typically quite sensitive to/experienced with binaural effects, and I'm solidly in the "split" category--in the sense that I can't decide whether performer or audience on the ambient channel is correct. The binaural effect, if any, is quite subtle to begin with, and doesn't have really clear stereo separation (which is kind of how a real piano is if you sit further away I think).

Even after trying each, I also just threw up my hands and defaulted to the Classic/Full as well.

Indeed the classic/full is beautiful in Garritan CFX.

The binaural dummy head placement was a practical challenge as the professional piano player was seated at the piano. I can't remember if Garritan put the dummy head just above or just behind the pianist (I do remember the marketing photo in the Garritan CFX glossy brochure is wrong and was taken during the testing process). So maybe the binaural sound was slightly compromised by interference from the pianists body and by imperfect placement of the dummy head.

Phasing effects and ambience probably are other factors making the L/R channel swapping difficult to discern. As Tyrone notes, one could just analyse the mechanical sounds to get to the bottom of the question.
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/08/19 04:22 PM
I'm sure Yamaha don't need a pianist when sampling their CFX piano since they have perfect Disclavier system for precise control of velocities. It's probably even an automated sampling process, you start it and then go after one day and all is sampled systematically wink VSL also claim they use robotized hand that presses the keys so the entire sampling process might be orchestrated by a computer.
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/08/19 04:27 PM
Maybe somebody will develop Piannerly ... an app that will fix my piano mistakes. smile
Originally Posted by HwyStar
^^^ Grammarly works great at catching those kinds of typos. Maybe not that typo though.
Posted By: EPW Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/08/19 04:56 PM
Now MacMacMac what fun would that be smile
Originally Posted by Kawai James
NOVUS NV5 Main Features



Anybody know the name of the song she played?
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/08/19 05:08 PM
She starts with Chopin Prelude op.20, no.20 in Cm and then plays no. 16 in B-flat minor.
Posted By: EPW Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/08/19 05:31 PM
She sure makes those keys fly smile
Ah, no. 16 is the one I missed. I think it's Opus 28, however. Thanks, CyberGene.
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/08/19 06:08 PM
Indeed, it’s op. 28, not 20, it’s a typo, I repeated the prelude number...
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/08/19 06:18 PM
Originally Posted by CyberGene
I'm sure Yamaha don't need a pianist when sampling their CFX piano since they have perfect Disclavier system for precise control of velocities. It's probably even an automated sampling process, you start it and then go after one day and all is sampled systematically wink VSL also claim they use robotized hand that presses the keys so the entire sampling process might be orchestrated by a computer.


That's a good point. Didn't know Disklavier was available on CFX but that would definitely be a great way to get perfectly consistent sampling velocities.
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/08/19 06:36 PM
Well, I just assumed it would work on CFX. I’m not sure there is a commercially produced CFX Disklavier but it makes sense to use it for consistent sampling, so maybe they created one? I guess it’s just something installed within the keyboard assembly.
Posted By: Jethro Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/08/19 06:39 PM
error post
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/08/19 07:09 PM
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Well, I just assumed it would work on CFX. I’m not sure there is a commercially produced CFX Disklavier but it makes sense to use it for consistent sampling, so maybe they created one? I guess it’s just something installed within the keyboard assembly.


Well Steinway has a Spirio for the D, so I wouldn't be surprised if there was a recorder/player for the CFX, I just don't know either smile and to lazy to Google atm!
The Garritan CFX was sampled using a pianist at the piano, concert pianist, don't remember her name offhand. It's a regular CFX, not a DCFX like which was used for the VSL library. In theory, one can get more consistent velocity sampling with a Disklavier (or similar high quality player system). However, every library I've played (including the VSL CFX) in which the sampling was done by a machine like this, there is noticeable thumping from the mechanism mostly heard at the lowest velocities. If I play scales softly with the VSL CFX, I hear thump thump thump thump thump.

And I can confirm what others are saying that the KU100 binaural mic channels in the Garritan CFX seem to be reversed, one can clearly tell the image is flipped with bass notes on right, treble on left. I'm not in front of it now, but I believe the KM84 close mics were correct. Binaural recording is great for recording a room or environment with many sounds coming in from many directions. For a single instrument, even one as large as a concert grand, the binaural effect isn't nearly as pronounced, especially if the mics are far from the instrument. The Garritan CFX had the Neumann head quite a ways behind the pianist, if I remember correctly, for ambience like newer player said. Best binaural effect on a piano would be to place the dummy head IN the piano, right above strings, as if you the player is leaning in very close. I've not heard the binaural sample on the AG's, but as others have suggested, its perceived quality is likely due to the superb sampling and playback engine, despite the binaural method used and not because of it. I certainly wouldn't fault Kawai for not including a binaural sample, it only works on headphones and doesn't make much sense for recorded music (which is how the vast majority of humans listen to music).
Posted By: David B Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/08/19 09:39 PM
Originally Posted by Lance VI Labs
I certainly wouldn't fault Kawai for not including a binaural sample, it only works on headphones and doesn't make much sense for recorded music (which is how the vast majority of humans listen to music).


The weird thing with the N1X is that I think the binaural sample sounds better played back over speakers compared to the non-binaural CFX sample.

It even sounds better playing live. If I plug in my headphones (enabling the binaural sample and turning off the internal speakers) and run the sound to my studio monitors, I get a very nice stereo sample.

The N1X binaural sample sounds amazing with headphones (completely immersive giving the impression you're not wearing headphones) and it sounds good played back through speakers.

That's my humble experience.

God Bless,
David
Posted By: johnstaf Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/08/19 09:46 PM
There's no reason why binaural shouldn't sound great over speakers, it's just that the binaural effect doesn't happen. When the Takács Quartet recorded the Beethoven string quartets, the engineer (Simon Eadon) used something resembling a typical binaural setup. It wasn't to create the binaural effect, but to keep a realistic stereo panorama over speakers; sometimes quartets or pianos can sound as wide as a symphony orchestra.
Posted By: U3piano Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/08/19 09:47 PM
I think it's safe to say pianoworld forum members are amongst the best thread hijackers on the internet.


So, that NV5 sure looks promising right? grin
Posted By: MrKaramba Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/08/19 09:51 PM
Originally Posted by Emery Wang
Originally Posted by Kawai James
NOVUS NV5 Main Features



Anybody know the name of the song she played?


It's NOT A SONG!!!!!

It's A PIECE!
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/08/19 10:07 PM
Originally Posted by U3piano
So, that NV5 sure looks promising right? grin

Well, yeah, but does it have binaural?
Posted By: David B Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/08/19 10:25 PM
I should add that if I do play my N1X without headphones (using the internal samples) it "plays" better using the multi channel sample over the N1X speakers.

I'm surprised that the new NV5 doesn't at least have an audio interface. That's a pretty important feature to me. When I tried the NV10, I had a ground loop/buzz using the Line in.

That was one of a few factors that moved me to the N1X. I would think this would be a common feature on new models.

God Bless,
David

Posted By: Pete14 Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/08/19 10:44 PM
If Kawai included an audio interface in the NV5, it would make the -more expensive- NV10 look bad, so I never expected this to happen. The upcoming NV15 will be the most expensive of the three, so maybe Kawai could throw in an audio interface and this binaural thing that some of y’all seem to love so much. smile
I think it is a step backward from the NV10. The appeal of any hybrid grand piano is that it has a grand piano keyboard and a grand piano touch. Therefore, what is the appeal of creating an upright version with an upright keyboard, as any logical person will always prefer a grand piano keyboard action and touch than an upright keyboard action and touch!!!

Oh yes, I am fully aware that Yamaha also has an AvantGrand upright version but, same for Yamaha, what is the point of this Yamaha upright version when anyone would prefer to play a grand piano keyboard action instead!!
Posted By: JJHLH Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/08/19 10:59 PM
Cost would certainly be a consideration, as the upright models are much more affordable.
Posted By: David B Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/08/19 11:02 PM
Originally Posted by JJHLH
Cost would certainly be a consideration, as the upright models are much more affordable.


And space too if you're looking for a smaller footprint. The NV5 is pretty sleek.
Posted By: U3piano Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/08/19 11:07 PM
Originally Posted by MikePianoLover
what is the point of this Yamaha upright version when anyone would prefer to play a grand piano keyboard action instead!!


Good point actually. Would a grand action fit in a upright cabinet? Is a grand action more expensive?

Other than good practice for playing uprights i see no advantages for the upright action compared to a grand action.


Since they don't have strings, might as well put grand actions in these hybrid uprights.
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/09/19 12:41 AM
Originally Posted by David B

I'm surprised that the new NV5 doesn't at least have an audio interface. That's a pretty important feature to me. When I tried the NV10, I had a ground loop/buzz using the Line in.

My guess is it's on the roadmap. Kawai probably didn't want to fork their existing sound engine/hardware solely for an audio interface. My guess is they committed to the SK-EX rendering engine for 3-4 years, and are building their next sound engine with an interface in mind. But the NV5 was released before so it gets what currently exists.

Originally Posted by Pete14
If Kawai included an audio interface in the NV5, it would make the -more expensive- NV10 look bad, so I never expected this to happen.

Lest we forget, Yamaha released the -more expensive- N3X without an audio interface. But then both the NU1X and the N1X got it (along with the P-125, P-515 and all the CLPs).

Originally Posted by U3piano

Good point actually. Would a grand action fit in a upright cabinet? Is a grand action more expensive?

You can't fit a grand action in a compact upright cabinet. Make the upright deep enough, and you have....the N1X/N2/NV-10 I guess. Cybergene did some research into action cost I think? I can't speak for the materials cost (all the bits look more or less similar to me) but real grand actions certainly aren't cheap...
Here is a Japanese news article about the NV5 announcement held at Kawai's Omotesando store in Tokyo on Wednesday:

https://www.barks.jp/news/?id=1000170391

There are some nice shots of the NV5 with a transparent upper panel, and a shot of the action sample - complete with mini damper pedal to demonstrate the damper mechanism.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: robinlb Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/09/19 03:32 AM
Originally Posted by David B
I should add that if I do play my N1X without headphones (using the internal samples) it "plays" better using the multi channel sample over the N1X speakers.

I'm surprised that the new NV5 doesn't at least have an audio interface. That's a pretty important feature to me. When I tried the NV10, I had a ground loop/buzz using the Line in.

That was one of a few factors that moved me to the N1X. I would think this would be a common feature on new models.

God Bless,
David



Don't know what happened on NV10 you tested, but using line in (Auxin) on my CA98 without any buzz.
Guess there is something wrong on that Nv10 machine.
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by U3piano
So, that NV5 sure looks promising right? grin

Well, yeah, but does it have binaural?

No and I think that is a big miss.
Originally Posted by robinlb
Originally Posted by David B
I should add that if I do play my N1X without headphones (using the internal samples) it "plays" better using the multi channel sample over the N1X speakers.

I'm surprised that the new NV5 doesn't at least have an audio interface. That's a pretty important feature to me. When I tried the NV10, I had a ground loop/buzz using the Line in.

That was one of a few factors that moved me to the N1X. I would think this would be a common feature on new models.

God Bless,
David



Don't know what happened on NV10 you tested, but using line in (Auxin) on my CA98 without any buzz.
Guess there is something wrong on that Nv10 machine.

Ground loops can happen even without a defect in the DP where there is more than one cable between piano and computer.
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/09/19 05:34 AM
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Here is a Japanese news article about the NV5 announcement held at Kawai's Omotesando store in Tokyo on Wednesday:

https://www.barks.jp/news/?id=1000170391

There are some nice shots of the NV5 with a transparent upper panel, and a shot of the action sample - complete with mini damper pedal to demonstrate the damper mechanism.


Is that the same soundboard size as on the CA-98/CS-11? I didn't realize it was so petite!

And how do we get one of those action samples? I love the little acrylic damper mechanism.

James, is the harmer weighting linear? It's hard to tell with the molds being the same shape.
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/09/19 06:36 AM
Ground loops can happen even with just one cable.
Posted By: tblb Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/09/19 07:04 AM
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Here is a Japanese news article about the NV5 announcement held at Kawai's Omotesando store in Tokyo on Wednesday:

https://www.barks.jp/news/?id=1000170391

There are some nice shots of the NV5 with a transparent upper panel, and a shot of the action sample - complete with mini damper pedal to demonstrate the damper mechanism.


Is that the same soundboard size as on the CA-98/CS-11? I didn't realize it was so petite!

And how do we get one of those action samples? I love the little acrylic damper mechanism.

James, is the harmer weighting linear? It's hard to tell with the molds being the same shape.


yes the weight of the hammer is reproduced, it's in the article in japonese
Originally Posted by Gombessa
James, is the harmer weighting linear? It's hard to tell with the molds being the same shape.


The hammers have graded weights attached to the underside, as on the NV10.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: lynyrds Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/09/19 09:19 AM
It looks like an upright, has all the mechanics of an upright, the only missing part is the strings :-)
Personally I own a CS11 and if I'd be looking for an upgrade, I'd rather go with an AURES...
Posted By: tblb Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/09/19 10:37 AM
i think i will go with a k500 aures ( midlife crisis buying :-) ) best of both world
Posted By: ˆTomLCˆ Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/09/19 02:39 PM
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Here is a Japanese news article about the NV5 announcement held at Kawai's Omotesando store in Tokyo on Wednesday:

https://www.barks.jp/news/?id=1000170391

There are some nice shots of the NV5 with a transparent upper panel, and a shot of the action sample - complete with mini damper pedal to demonstrate the damper mechanism.

Kind regards,
James
x


Nice pictures, James. Looking at the pictures of the action, I don’t understand how the upright action cost less to build compared to the grand action. It appears to be MORE complicated.
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/09/19 02:56 PM
I wonder the same thing:
Originally Posted by TomLC
Looking at the pictures of the action, I don’t understand how the upright action cost less to build compared to the grand action. It appears to be MORE complicated.
But nonetheless ... I'd still want the grand action, and I'd be stuck paying the premium.
Posted By: ˆTomLCˆ Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/09/19 03:57 PM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I wonder the same thing:
Originally Posted by TomLC
Looking at the pictures of the action, I don’t understand how the upright action cost less to build compared to the grand action. It appears to be MORE complicated.
But nonetheless ... I'd still want the grand action, and I'd be stuck paying the premium.


I think it depends on which K series model this action uses. If it's a K200, it is a good action. K300, better. But if it is a K500, or even K800, it would be a superb action. Maybe better than a G10 grand action. YMMV.
Posted By: robinlb Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/09/19 04:18 PM
Originally Posted by TomLC
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I wonder the same thing:
Originally Posted by TomLC
Looking at the pictures of the action, I don’t understand how the upright action cost less to build compared to the grand action. It appears to be MORE complicated.
But nonetheless ... I'd still want the grand action, and I'd be stuck paying the premium.


I think it depends on which K series model this action uses. If it's a K200, it is a good action. K300, better. But if it is a K500, or even K800, it would be a superb action. Maybe better than a G10 grand action. YMMV.


So my target model will turn to K500 Aures smile
Posted By: BradleyG Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/09/19 05:56 PM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
But nonetheless ... I'd still want the grand action, and I'd be stuck paying the premium.

Presumably most everyone would prefer a grand action all things being equal?

Given projected pricing being between the NU1X and the N1X, what would be the competing alternatives that provide an action grand action? I'd guess the real competition here is a top-tier non-hybrid digital? (I realize the term "hybrid" can be a bit loosey goosey here). I played a handful of those (GFII, GrandTouch) when I chose to purchase my NU1X, and obviously chose the upright action. I think there are plenty of folks, like me, who would value the more authentic feel of a hybrid upright action over the competing non-hybrid options. If the NV5 feels (holistically: meaning the sound, action and overall experience) appreciably better than the NU1X, I'd consider a premium price over that to be reasonable. If the price creeps up too close to the N1X, that's another story. Even then, I personally prefer the smaller footprint afforded by an upright action, given the tiny nook I have available to locate my piano. I doubt I'm alone in that.
It's in the shops now (well, it seems like 1-2 weeks delivery time) in Germany. The price at 5990 EUR is far higher than the NU1X (which is below 4500 EUR).

The Bauer-Music link below has lots of sound recordings, and the Kirstein link has a wall of text on the NV5's features (in German):

https://www.bauer-music.de/kawai-novus-nv-5-hybrid-digitalpiano

https://www.kirstein.de/Digitalpianos/Kawai-Novus-NV5-Hybrid-Digitalpiano.html

https://www.thomann.de/dk/kawai_novus_nv_5.htm
Posted By: johnstaf Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/10/19 08:53 PM
I'd love an NV7.5. That's my fantasy NV10 without the damper action so it can be squeezed into a smaller space. Sadly the NV10 won't fit into my space, as I would have to climb over it any time I wanted to play it... grin

Or maybe a VPC-1000 with a grand action.
Posted By: Tyr Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/11/19 09:39 AM
No Audio Interface, no interest! Despite it looks gorgeous!
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/11/19 10:40 AM
What audio interface would you want in a piano?
Originally Posted by Tyr
No Audio Interface, no interest! Despite it looks gorgeous!

I am having a DAW computer custom-built for me and it will have an RME BabyFace Pro audio interface. It’s nice that my N1X comes with a Steinberg interface, built-in, but I’m probably going to skip and and just use the RME because it’s better and faster. Why should a DP decision come down to an interface which you you can separately buy for a few hundred dollars - and if you do, it will likely be better than any interface which comes built-in to the piano?
For simplicity and less cables and things to fiddle with ?
Also with the built in interface you have no potential issues with noise from analog inputs.
Originally Posted by Morten Olsson
Also with the built in interface you have no potential issues with noise from analog inputs.

At some point in the audio chain there will be digital-to-analog and analog-to-digital conversion, whether the external audio interface is in the computer or in the piano. Good analog components (such as shielded cables) should reduce the introduction of noise in the analog circuits.

This topic came up recently in my thread where I was making a case for wanting a digital mixer and the overwhelming forum opinion was that often analog mixers are better and more accurate.
Posted By: Morodiene Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/11/19 01:25 PM
Originally Posted by TomLC
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I wonder the same thing:
Originally Posted by TomLC
Looking at the pictures of the action, I don’t understand how the upright action cost less to build compared to the grand action. It appears to be MORE complicated.
But nonetheless ... I'd still want the grand action, and I'd be stuck paying the premium.


I think it depends on which K series model this action uses. If it's a K200, it is a good action. K300, better. But if it is a K500, or even K800, it would be a superb action. Maybe better than a G10 grand action. YMMV.

I think you'd have a hard time convincing me that an upright action beats a grand piano action - even a baby grand.

Still, what I'm curious about is the fact that an acoustic upright usually has less dynamic range than a grand, so when combined with a sound engine like the Aures, it very well may beat an acoustic upright, assuming the quality in the action is the same.
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/11/19 02:23 PM
But why have an audio interface at all?
You've paid 6 or 8 or 10 thousand dollars for a piano.
It ought to sound like a piano without the help of PC-based software.
There ought be no audio interface at all. Just a piano.
Plug it in, plug it in.
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Morten Olsson
Also with the built in interface you have no potential issues with noise from analog inputs.

At some point in the audio chain there will be digital-to-analog and analog-to-digital conversion, whether the external audio interface is in the computer or in the piano. Good analog components (such as shielded cables) should reduce the introduction of noise in the analog circuits.

This topic came up recently in my thread where I was making a case for wanting a digital mixer and the overwhelming forum opinion was that often analog mixers are better and more accurate.
Posted By: robinlb Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/11/19 04:02 PM
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Tyr
No Audio Interface, no interest! Despite it looks gorgeous!

I am having a DAW computer custom-built for me and it will have an RME BabyFace Pro audio interface. It’s nice that my N1X comes with a Steinberg interface, built-in, but I’m probably going to skip and and just use the RME because it’s better and faster. Why should a DP decision come down to an interface which you you can separately buy for a few hundred dollars - and if you do, it will likely be better than any interface which comes built-in to the piano?


Yes, RME BFP is more better than N1x built in DAC (only very basic 44.1kHz/16bit).
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/11/19 04:21 PM
So why is it that 44.1 kHz is not adequate. (It is, ya know.)
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
So why is it that 44.1 kHz is not adequate.

A lot of VIs run at 48KHz. That is a standard for movies so running native 48KHz would prevent rounding issues. That said, I don't think a lot of piano VIs are running 48KHz (e.g. limited offerings from PianoTeq, Production Voices, 8Dio, Bechstein)

Also, some argue that 48KHz material allows the filters at DAC can behave a bit better at higher audible frequencies.
Posted By: David B Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/11/19 04:43 PM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
But why have an audio interface at all?
You've paid 6 or 8 or 10 thousand dollars for a piano.
It ought to sound like a piano without the help of PC-based software.
There ought be no audio interface at all. Just a piano.
Plug it in, plug it in.


For options. My brain gets tired hearing the same sound everyday. It nice to switch things up, it's like playing a new piano.

God Bless,
David
Posted By: David B Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/11/19 04:50 PM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
So why is it that 44.1 kHz is not adequate. (It is, ya know.)


Some audiophiles think they have super sensory hearing and can discern a difference by introducing a very expensive cable into the audio chain.

Evidently, those with gifted bionic ears can also hear the difference between 48 and 44KHz smile

God Bless,
David
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/11/19 04:59 PM
I think bit depth is more important than bit rate.
44.1 kHz is already more than enough for human hearing ... even for the very young, with the best hearing.
With age I think even 25 kHz would be adequate. But that's not available, so 44.1 it is. Or 48. I don't care. Either one works.

@David B: There are even those who insist upon 96 kHz ... and beyond ... for rendered audio. Silly stuff.
Posted By: robinlb Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/11/19 05:08 PM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
So why is it that 44.1 kHz is not adequate. (It is, ya know.)


44.1Khz is not the problem, but 44.1kHz with 16bit is worse than normal standard 44.1kHz/24 bit.
And most high grade DAC can provide oversampling such as 88.1Khz or higher to increase the output quality.
Any N1x user can make a test, using USB line feed the digital audio into N1X and to compare the output with RME BFP or other high quality DAC analog line out with same VST source. He can hear the difference.
Posted By: robinlb Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/11/19 05:23 PM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I think bit depth is more important than bit rate.
44.1 kHz is already more than enough for human hearing ... even for the very young, with the best hearing.
With age I think even 25 kHz would be adequate. But that's not available, so 44.1 it is. Or 48. I don't care. Either one works.

@David B: There are even those who insist upon 96 kHz ... and beyond ... for rendered audio. Silly stuff.


For whether enough for human hearing........for me, I just upgrade my Y/S Ur242 sound interface to RME ADI2 DAC, every person around me can easily hear the output difference from my CA98 by VSL D274.
This is not psychology, believe the facts and science smile.

Of couse, any DP has built-in audio interface and support USB audio input Wil be convenient for customer. But it doesn't mean good enough, especially for VST users.
Posted By: JJHLH Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/11/19 05:38 PM
I watched this famous YouTube video on audio myths and was fascinated.

https://youtu.be/BYTlN6wjcvQ

It gave me reassurance that, other than very good speakers (which can make a big difference), it’s probably wise not worrying about trying to improve audio performance since it likely won’t be noticeable. A computer may be able to measure the difference but human hearing isn’t capable of perceiving it.

At 41:15 there is good demonstration comparing a cheap $25 Soundblaster sound card vs an Apogee 8000. I did this test blind and couldn’t tell any difference, but forced myself to choose one and it was the cheap sound card.

At 45:08 there is a discussion of analogue vs digital.

Most enlightening for me was at 45:51 which shows how bit reduction affects sound. How many bits do we really need? I didn’t perceive any degradation until the bit rate was reduced to around 10 bits. So 16 seems like more than enough.
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/11/19 06:03 PM
Originally Posted by Morodiene

Still, what I'm curious about is the fact that an acoustic upright usually has less dynamic range than a grand, so when combined with a sound engine like the Aures, it very well may beat an acoustic upright, assuming the quality in the action is the same.


I've heard this as well, but have never really experienced it with a decent upright. Is there an explanation for why this is? Does an upright lack absolute range in the high/low end, or is it just more difficult to control?

If you can map the entire playable range of velocities in the action, you can achieve the same dynamic range as in any digital or acoustic silent grand, but if an upright has a more compressed range, it seems to follow that you could have more difficulty hitting the velocity you're intending.
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/11/19 06:09 PM
I like the compressed dynamic range of upright pianos. It makes it a bit more predictable, especially for pianists who are not that experienced. It’s not even compressed per se. Rather, grand pianos have extended range. I just think that grands can achieve almost deafening volumes whereas uprights hit a plateau above certain velocities.
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/11/19 08:03 PM
Two things:
1. You cannot upgrade a UR242 to an RME ADI2 DAC. You must outright replace the UR242. smile

2. I agree that bit-depth matters. But being able to distinguish the sound of the UR242 from that of the RME ADI2 only proves that ... you can distinguish the sound of the UR242 from that of the RME ADI2.
There are multiple differences between the two, and you've not identified which differences produce the difference in what you're hearing.
Originally Posted by robinlb
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I think bit depth is more important than bit rate.
44.1 kHz is already more than enough for human hearing ... even for the very young, with the best hearing.
With age I think even 25 kHz would be adequate. But that's not available, so 44.1 it is. Or 48. I don't care. Either one works.
@David B: There are even those who insist upon 96 kHz ... and beyond ... for rendered audio. Silly stuff.
For whether enough for human hearing........for me, I just upgrade my Y/S Ur242 sound interface to RME ADI2 DAC, every person around me can easily hear the output difference from my CA98 by VSL D274.
This is not psychology, believe the facts and science. smile
And, by the way ... you've cited no science at all. You've only said that you can hear a difference. Perhaps there's some science to be had, but you've made no mention of such.
Posted By: Morodiene Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/11/19 09:20 PM
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by Morodiene

Still, what I'm curious about is the fact that an acoustic upright usually has less dynamic range than a grand, so when combined with a sound engine like the Aures, it very well may beat an acoustic upright, assuming the quality in the action is the same.


I've heard this as well, but have never really experienced it with a decent upright. Is there an explanation for why this is? Does an upright lack absolute range in the high/low end, or is it just more difficult to control?

If you can map the entire playable range of velocities in the action, you can achieve the same dynamic range as in any digital or acoustic silent grand, but if an upright has a more compressed range, it seems to follow that you could have more difficulty hitting the velocity you're intending.

It's different with each instrument, but it's mainly noticeable at pp and ff (or greater) dynamics. The uprights tend to max out and no amount of force gets more sound beyond that point. Same for pp, you can get to piano, but pp is either impossible or at best, inconsistent.

So again, I'm curious how the NV5 compares to an acoustic - perhaps it partially resolves this limitation.
When I was researching DP's I broke them down into 3 different sections that end up making the whole DP, Keyboard, Sound Generation and Sound Projection. There are many many permutations of different approaches so solving each of those problems in DP's. I never thought about acoustics that way because for the most part the decision to get an upright or a grand determined the choices. You couldn't mix an upright action with a grand sound generation and sound projection.

I think in the acoustic world the difference between a upright and a grand is a sum of all the parts not just the keyboard. In the DP world it's different. You can have a upright action paired with the same sound generation engine and sound projection of a hybrid with a grand action. In the simplest comparison you have a NU1X with an upright action compared to the N1X with a grand action. If you were to use headphones as your sound projection choice and use the CFX Binaural sound then after the keyboard they are using similar components. I think CyberGene can answer this best since he's played both. This isn't to say that the action doesn't make a difference in other aspects of play, from everything I have read here and other places there are techniques and skills that are best accomplished with a grand action.

Now with the NV5 coming out there will be a second point of comparison. It will be interesting to see if anyone compares it to the NV10. So far it looks like the specs are similar so the comparison would be the same as the NU1X to the N1X

Before anyone jumps in I realize my comparision is in the simplest form and that if you are playing through the on board speakers there are definite differences between the two as well as the sound generation once you get past the CFX Binaural sample. What I was wondering about if you kept all things equal except the keyboard how does the difference between the two keyboards affect sound in particular the aspects that Morodiene mentions.
Posted By: jamiecw Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/12/19 04:25 PM
So, for the uninitiated or for the ones dying to see more, a new vid on the NV5:

https://youtu.be/-MopWhN0SDM (it's all in Japanese though)...at 3.21 she talks about the pedal, is this the part where if using the sustain pedal the DP gives the impression of the dampers being lifted making the action slightly lighter?

PS. on the above grand vs upright action, between the CS11 and the NV5 which would it be?
Posted By: tblb Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/13/19 07:28 AM
the price is 590000 yen on the video (5000€), on kawai site it was 650 000
Posted By: Fripp Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/13/19 06:00 PM
Originally Posted by TomLC

I think it depends on which K series model this action uses. If it's a K200, it is a good action. K300, better. But if it is a K500, or even K800, it would be a superb action. Maybe better than a G10 grand action. YMMV.


Do the actions of the K-200/300/500/600/800 really differ that much? They all seem to be using the "Exclusive Millennium III Upright Action with ABS-Carbon Composites" action.

According to Thomann, they'll be having it in stock within 3-4 weeks:
Kawai NV5 - Thomann

I hope that is the case, this however says that it will be released the 4th of October (I had to use Google translate):
Kawai NV5
So, it seems we have only briefly touched on the release date of this in the United States. Can anyone confirm a release date for this year? I am very close to purchasing a Yamaha N1x (yes I know it's a grand action vs. an upright action), and would love to try this before I commit. Thanks!
Posted By: daz100 Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/24/19 09:53 PM
Originally Posted by Fripp
Originally Posted by TomLC

I think it depends on which K series model this action uses. If it's a K200, it is a good action. K300, better. But if it is a K500, or even K800, it would be a superb action. Maybe better than a G10 grand action. YMMV.


Do the actions of the K-200/300/500/600/800 really differ that much? They all seem to be using the "Exclusive Millennium III Upright Action with ABS-Carbon Composites" action.



Only the K500 and upwards feature the Extended key length & Neotex key surfaces. Longer keys make playing easier and provide a more even response from the front to the back of the playing surface
Posted By: Fripp Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 08/24/19 10:28 PM
Originally Posted by daz100
Originally Posted by Fripp
Originally Posted by TomLC

I think it depends on which K series model this action uses. If it's a K200, it is a good action. K300, better. But if it is a K500, or even K800, it would be a superb action. Maybe better than a G10 grand action. YMMV.


Do the actions of the K-200/300/500/600/800 really differ that much? They all seem to be using the "Exclusive Millennium III Upright Action with ABS-Carbon Composites" action.



Only the K500 and upwards feature the Extended key length & Neotex key surfaces. Longer keys make playing easier and provide a more even response from the front to the back of the playing surface


Thank you for the info! It would be interesting to know if the NV-5's action is based on the K-500 and upwards then. Something tells me it is not though.
Originally Posted by Chopin4Liszt
So, it seems we have only briefly touched on the release date of this in the United States. Can anyone confirm a release date for this year?


I believe the NV5 should be available for purchase in the US before the end of this year, however it's probably best to contact Kawai America for confirmation.

Kind regards,
James
x
Originally Posted by daz100
Only the K500 and upwards feature the Extended key length & Neotex key surfaces.


I believe all of the K-x00 models feature extended length keys (compared to the previous generation K-x models). As you note, Neotex key-surfaces are available on the K-500 up.

Kind regards,
James
x
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by Chopin4Liszt
So, it seems we have only briefly touched on the release date of this in the United States. Can anyone confirm a release date for this year?


I believe the NV5 should be available for purchase in the US before the end of this year, however it's probably best to contact Kawai America for confirmation.

Kind regards,
James
x


Thanks for the information. I can't wait to try this in the US soon.
Posted By: Galuwen Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 10/08/19 06:53 PM
For THAT piano (nv10 with soundboard) and with a silent transducer string vibration option for playing with headphones..... *count me in * at nearly every price :-).

Galuwen
Hello folks,

Very short notice, I'm afraid, however I just heard from one of my colleagues at Kawai UK that they will be exhibiting at the Music & Drama Education Expo, held at Manchester Old Trafford on 10th October (yes, today!) from 9:00~17:00.

There will be an NV5 (with action sample!) on the booth for visitors to play-test!

The event is open to the general public, however visitors will need to register (for free) via the website below:

https://www.musicanddramaeducationexpo.co.uk/manchester

If you're living in the Manchester area (peterws?) and would like to give the NV5 a try, by all means please visit.

Kind regards,
James
x
This video was posted in another thread, however I wanted to post it here also, for posterity:




Also, the NV5 followed in the footsteps of the NV10 by receiving a Good Design Award from the Japan Institute of Design Promotion:

[Linked Image]

https://www.kawai-global.com/news/kawai-novus-nv5-wins-good-design-award/

Kind regards,
James
x
Originally Posted by Kawai James
This video was posted in another thread, however I wanted to post it here also, for posterity:




Also, the NV5 followed in the footsteps of the NV10 by receiving a Good Design Award from the Japan Institute of Design Promotion:

[Linked Image]

https://www.kawai-global.com/news/kawai-novus-nv5-wins-good-design-award/

Kind regards,
James
x

Nice, I know this guy! I met him a few month ago and I bought a Shigeru Kawai from him a couple of years ago for my work. They hav a vary nice store in Copenhagen for both acoustic and digital instruments.
Posted By: U3piano Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 10/21/19 07:50 AM
I wonder how the sound of the NV5 compares to the NV10?

Since it has the same sound engine and everything, but it adds a soundboard, it might actually sound better/more acoustic-like?
Posted By: GSeb Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 10/21/19 08:24 AM
From Kawai website: "The screen can also be set to turn off automatically while playing, thus preserving the instrument’s acoustic piano-like appearance, and minimising any visual distraction to the performer."

Does anyone know if Kawai managed to really turn the screen off when you play or is it still back lited (still showing when playing in low light environment)?
Posted By: GSeb Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 10/21/19 08:26 AM
Originally Posted by U3piano
I wonder how the sound of the NV5 compares to the NV10?

Since it has the same sound engine and everything, but it adds a soundboard, it might actually sound better/more acoustic-like?


Indeed > this is a key question.
When I listened to K300 Aures for the 1st time I was not totally convinced by the soundboard and transducers performance.
That being said, this recording makes me reconsider... sounds gorgious...
Originally Posted by GSeb
Originally Posted by U3piano
I wonder how the sound of the NV5 compares to the NV10?

Since it has the same sound engine and everything, but it adds a soundboard, it might actually sound better/more acoustic-like?


Indeed > this is a key question.
When I listened to K300 Aures for the 1st time I was not totally convinced by the soundboard and transducers performance.
That being said, this recording makes me reconsider... sounds gorgious...

There's so much difference that we perceive when we are listening to recordings. Sometimes I hate the Internet, because that makes it easy for manufacturers to just put videos of everything, and skip on stocking instruments across the world. I'm sometimes amazed when I am being recorded with a phone let's say playing own digital piano, the recording sounds totally different than what I hear when I am in the room, so it's hard to judge.. I think we need to travel and check them all pianos out laugh
Posted By: U3piano Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 10/21/19 08:40 AM
Originally Posted by GSeb
Originally Posted by U3piano
I wonder how the sound of the NV5 compares to the NV10?

Since it has the same sound engine and everything, but it adds a soundboard, it might actually sound better/more acoustic-like?


Indeed > this is a key question.
When I listened to K300 Aures for the 1st time I was not totally convinced by the soundboard and transducers performance.
That being said, this recording makes me reconsider... sounds gorgious...


I think the K300 Aures and NV5 are quite different in the way they work. While the K300 soundboard has a double job to amplify the real strings plus the whole frequency range of digital sound, the NV5 has a soundboard specifically designed for just the task of handling the bass end of the NV5, while the rest is handled by speakers, i think.

Then again, i think the NU1 somehow sounds better compared to most dp's even without the use of a soundboard, bottom line.. really need to try that NV5!
Posted By: CyberGene Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 10/21/19 09:23 AM
Originally Posted by GSeb
From Kawai website: "The screen can also be set to turn off automatically while playing, thus preserving the instrument’s acoustic piano-like appearance, and minimising any visual distraction to the performer."

Does anyone know if Kawai managed to really turn the screen off when you play or is it still back lited (still showing when playing in low light environment)?

Highly doubtful. It’s certainly not a software controlled function, otherwise they would have implemented it in a firmware because Kawai usually do regular firmware updates. Which means it’s a hardware thing, hence they wouldn’t bother redesigning a board that is also used by the CA-series and the NV10. So, I wouldn’t count on them “fixing” it. But I might be wrong.
Posted By: Boboulus Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 10/29/19 05:40 PM
Hi,

I’m reading that the specs for the NV5 is different on Kawai Global site and on German retailer site Thomann.

They claim that the NV5 has 2x 1/4” line-out jacks while the Kawai Global site states in the specs that is one stereo 1/8” jack for line out.

https://www.kawai-global.com/product/nv5/

https://m.thomann.de/se/kawai_novus_nv_5.htm

I sent a mail to Thomann and they indeed confirmed that it must be different specs because they confirmed the 2x 1/4” mono sockets.

@kawai James do you know if there are any other differences on a potential European model vs what’s stated on the Global site?

Best regards

Bernhard
The NV5 manual shows 1/8" sockets.
Posted By: Boboulus Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 10/29/19 06:57 PM
Originally Posted by Frédéric L
The NV5 manual shows 1/8" sockets.


Yes I know and I’m somewhat in doubt about the information from Thomann but I sent them 3 mail with included screenshots of the specs from the global site but they answered back that it must be a difference between European modem and Japanese model. Seems so unlikely but it would be extremely unprofessional by Thomann to answer like this.
Posted By: AndrewJCW Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 10/29/19 07:05 PM
Interesting. I'm sure our friendly neighbourhood rep will soon set the record straight. It seems more likely to me your retailer is just confused than they would make a different model for EU with a small random difference like this, but who knows.
Posted By: Boboulus Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 10/29/19 07:25 PM
Originally Posted by AndrewJCW
Interesting. I'm sure our friendly neighbourhood rep will soon set the record straight. It seems more likely to me your retailer is just confused than they would make a different model for EU with a small random difference like this, but who knows.


Yes, i totally agree. smile
Hello Bernhard,

The NV5's Line In and Line Out connectors are both single 1/8" stereo mini jacks.

Here is a cropped image (from a much larger front-facing shot of the instrument) that shows the NV5 jack panel:

[Linked Image]

The information in the NV5 owner's manual and on the Kawai Global website is correct. I hope this clarifies the situation.

I will ask my colleagues at Kawai Europe to inform Thomann of the correct specification.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

Kind regards,
James
x

ps. It's perhaps worth noting that the NV10 *does* use 2x 1/4" Line Out jacks. This is because the NV10 connector panel is based on the CA98/CA78 (albeit with a different headphone/USB block which adds a volume knob and power button), while the NV5 connector panel is based on that of the ATX3/AURES instruments.
Posted By: Boboulus Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 10/30/19 06:45 AM
Thank you very much James for clarification. smile

Btw are there any pros and cons to having a 3,5mm stereo jack instead of two mono 6,2mm jacks for the line out?

/Bernhard
No problem, happy to help.

One advantage of using a single 3.5mm stereo mini jack (instead of two mono 6.25mm jacks) is that it helps to save a little space.

A potential disadvantage is that a splitter cable will be required in order to connect to certain equipment that utilises separate L/R jacks.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: Boboulus Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 10/31/19 08:20 AM
Have anyone found any more reviews or tests of the NV5?
Posted By: Boboulus Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 11/06/19 04:26 PM
Anyone who can translate? smile

https://youtu.be/pi-OXxkVkdo
Thanks for sharing the video Boboulus.

This video is from Kawai Japan's domestic NV5 product announcement, held in early August.

The product presentation is a shortened version of the English language product overview material prepared for dealers, which looks like this:

[Linked Image]

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: Boboulus Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 11/07/19 08:35 AM
Thank you very much for the information James. So far my byer journey has boild down to this one so far. Ill just wait out NAMM and maybe Musicmesse before making the plunge.

Also, Digitalpiano has said they are working on a more extended review video but it till be in Danish. Pretty ok for me since im Swedish and can probably make out a few words. I'll post it here as soon as they post it oh thier YT-channel. smile

There is one video right now but nothing in-depth.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnKsDOpjvtc4KNtVPK_hoEA
Thank you Boboulus. Yes, I have seen that "first preview" video before, and am looking forward to their more detailed overview.

Cheers,
James
x
Posted By: jfish930 Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 11/11/19 04:07 AM
Hello all,
I emailed Kawai re. Availability and pricing of NV5 in the US. I received a response the very next day but it wasn’t the best of news:



At the moment we have no information on availability or pricing in the US. I would suggest you check back in. about a month.

Regards,

Alan

Alan Palmer

Digital Piano Product Manager

Kawai America Corporation
Posted By: ˆTomLCˆ Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 11/11/19 05:06 AM
Alan is a good guy. So I suppose he doesn’t know. Except “Check back in a month” may be a clue. 🙄
Posted By: robinlb Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 11/11/19 06:32 AM
Guess it will be another popular model on PW.
Posted By: Boboulus Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 11/11/19 01:49 PM
It's in stock in Sweden but not in any stores so that I can test it... very tempted even without testing. But it's a bit too much money to not have tested first. Also to be able to fit a piano into our house there needs to be changed in furniture and thats not done overnight. smile

Right now I'm just waiting for some more reviews and hands-on videos. smile
Does the NV5 have the same Onkyo Twin Drive soundboard as the CA 98 ?

Thanks for your help!
Hello lovelovemale, I already responded to this query in your CA98 thread, but just in case:

Originally Posted by lovelovemale
Does the NV5 have the same Onkyo Twin Drive soundboard as the CA 98 ?


Yes, the CA98 and NV5 both use the same TwinDrive soundboard speaker. Indeed, the amplifier and speaker systems are the same for both models.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
James
x
Awesomeness! Thanks for your response!
Can't wait to get my CA 98!
I love the Kawai sound and feel <3
Posted By: Masticccc Re: Kawai announces NOVUS NV5 hybrid piano - 01/24/20 07:16 AM
Can I ask whether the NV5 will come to Australia soon. Because I was looking for it and no official Kawai retail store have it, also Kawai Australia official website only shows NV10
Hello Masticccc, welcome to the forum.

I believe this topic is still under consideration within Kawai Australia.
My recommendation would be to contact the subsidiary directly to check the situation and register your interest.

Kind regards,
James
x
Does the novus nv5 have a light and repetitive action? Like is it good for fast legato pieces?
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