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Posted By: Grazilerimba VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/01/19 10:50 AM
Looks like VSL have released a new piano in the Synchron Pianos series: Bluethner 1895

Quote
The Lyrical Grand
Key Features
Refurbished 193 cm (6-foot-4) grand piano with patented Aliquot stringing
Glorious example of Blüthner’s legendary “golden tone”
Recorded at Stage B of Synchron Stage Vienna
Advanced Release Sample Technology
Multiple Microphone Positions – for a multitude of timbral variations
Pre-configured Main Presets: "Concert", "Intimate", "Player", "Pop", "Ambience", "Vintage"
FX Presets for enhanced, warped or mysterious piano sounds
Soft (una corda), sostenuto, sustain pedals
Half-pedalling and re-pedalling
Sympathetic resonance
Body resonance

This exceptional grand piano was built in 1895 by the famous Julius Blüthner Pianofortefabrik of Leipzig. It was acquired by Synchron Stage Vienna after having been lovingly restored by master piano builder Bernhard Balas from Vienna.

The 193 cm professional scale instrument is equipped with Blüthner’s specially developed and patented Aliquot system that uses additional dampened strings positioned above the conventional strings of the treble register, which are not struck by the hammers but resonate sympathetically. This fourth set of strings enhances the overtones, providing a velvety, organic shimmer and giving the instrument a particularly lyrical “singing” quality. In addition, the strings are unusually long and thin, stretched to an enormous string tension of 20 tons, which helps define the instrument’s specific sound. In combination with its soft hammers the Blüthner grand produces a clear, yet warm and soft timbre that is superior to many modern instruments in its variety of tonal colors.

Composers such as Debussy, Brahms, Mahler, Bartók, Liszt, Tchaikowsky, Shostakowitch and Rachmaninov created their works on a Blüthner grand. Famously, Paul McCartney played a Blüthner concert grand when recording “Let It Be” for the film of the same title in 1969.

Capturing the Golden Tone
Vienna Symphonic Library’s Blüthner 1895 grand piano was recorded at Stage B of Synchron Stage Vienna. This beautiful 69 m² (739 sq ft.) live room with a 3.5 to 4.5 m (11.5 – 14.75 ft) height features a controlled acoustic environment with less ambience than the large main hall (Stage A).

While beautifully restored, this Blüthner 1895 was recorded “as is”, with all the charm and peculiarities that give a seasoned instrument its character. Its virtual recreation is extremely versatile and well suited for soloists looking for a slightly different, personal piano sound. The Blüthner lends itself extremely well to song accompaniments and chamber music settings, as well as to pop songs and ballads where other concert grands sound too large and obtrusive. Presets like “Intimate” or “Vintage” bring out this special quality even more.

Sampling Precision
To capture the Blüthner 1895 with all its subtleties, our engineers developed a highly precise motion-control system based on a solenoid that controls a noise-free “robot finger”. The micro-controller moves the finger with super-human precision, providing flexible curvatures for down-strokes and release movements, the latter corresponding with the preceding note length and various release speeds.

Piano Robot
8 Microphone Positions
In order to capture this beauty, our recording engineers used multiple high-end microphone arrays, affording an abundance of options for creating your individual sound.

Customize Your Personal Sound
In addition to the multitude of options from mixing various microphone signals, the Blüthner 1895 comes with the free Vienna Synchron Pianos Software that offers multiple options for shaping your sound and your playing experience. Hosting a high-performance playback engine, the software provides a full-blown mixer with a broad range of effects such as EQ, compressor, saturator, algorithmic reverb, delay, chorus, flanger, rotary, and many more. Change the volume of body resonances, sympathetic strings and pedal noises right in the main Play window. In the Edit window you may even adjust EQ, volume, tuning, dynamic range, etc. for each individual key!


This comes as a surprise to me because I was under the assumption they would go for the Boesendorfer in the large hall next (the third grand piano that was seen in their comparison video on YouTube). Instead they go for this in a smaller hall. They also released a new bundle which includes the formerly released CFX and Steinway D along with the new Bluethner.
Posted By: johnstaf Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/01/19 12:55 PM
That is a big surprise.
Posted By: newer player Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/01/19 01:30 PM
VSL mixed it up a bit with this VI, keeping us on our toes. Paul Kopf always has interesting intro videos.

https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Synchron_Pianos_Bundle/Bluthner_1895#!Videos

The Blüthner 1895 sounds nice.

https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Player/11519.
Posted By: lorez Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/01/19 03:59 PM
Please somebody stop me from buying the standard bundle! ;p
Posted By: jamiecw Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/01/19 04:17 PM
Originally Posted by lorez
Please somebody stop me from buying the standard bundle! ;p


*waves Jedi hand* this is not the VST you are looking for...:)

It does sound bloody good doesn't it - was looking at the requirements, 98GB of hard drive space for the full library half of that if you are fine with individual mics missing....I just cannot do it my lowly MacBook will be out of space! frown
Posted By: johnstaf Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/01/19 04:20 PM
I got a free voucher when I bought Synchron D, so it only cost me €16. grin It was for the standard edition.
Posted By: robinlb Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/01/19 04:23 PM
Originally Posted by lorez
Please somebody stop me from buying the standard bundle! ;p


As the user of VSL CFX&D274, I can't help to get the full with €197 just now.
Seems like they updated the Synchron Piano interface too.
Maybe resampling Bosendofer coming soon. Terrible:(
Posted By: lorez Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/01/19 04:26 PM
Yeah, it’s great. I need to cut my credit card now, I don’t even have the machine to run the things! I mean technically I could but my piano and my PC are on different floors. I was planning on buying a fanless i7 NUC to run my PC VSTs and VSL ruined my plans...
Posted By: robinlb Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/01/19 04:32 PM
Originally Posted by johnstaf
I got a free voucher when I bought Synchron D, so it only cost me €16. grin It was for the standard edition.


Terrible, again
Why is no voucher for me when I purchasd D frown
Posted By: angmyu Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/01/19 04:55 PM
And they added Standalone app with their latest software update.

Originally Posted by robinlb

Why is no voucher for me when I purchasd D frown


me, too : (
Posted By: johnstaf Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/01/19 05:00 PM
Originally Posted by robinlb
Originally Posted by johnstaf
I got a free voucher when I bought Synchron D, so it only cost me €16. grin It was for the standard edition.


Terrible, again
Why is no voucher for me when I purchasd D frown


At the time the Steinway was released, there was a promotion where you bought three you got one free (or something like that) so I bought three and used two towards the Steinway and had two left. I used the free one today for the Blüthner.
Posted By: Erard Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/01/19 07:13 PM
Interesting period piano - sweet and 'antique' tone.

I went to the Blüthner page on the VSL site, and the price for the full version is €290 (standard is €165).
On the bundle page (bundle of the three pianos, I have already two: CFX and D) the price is €197 (€116) for the full version. So I would get the Blüthner for that price.

I guess this means that if you already have the other two Synchron pianos, you get €93 off the already discounted introductory price.

Just a heads up for the people here that already own the two previous synchron pianos.
Posted By: CyberGene Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/01/19 07:30 PM
Very nice, intimate, lyrical, imperfect (in the good sense) sound. Listening to the demos I think I like this VSL the most but admittedly all the CFX and D demos contain too much reverb and I can’t hear the raw close sound.
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/01/19 07:32 PM
The full version at 290 EUR is pretty steep. What's the difference between that and the "standard" version at 165 EUR?
Posted By: johnstaf Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/01/19 07:50 PM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
The full version at 290 EUR is pretty steep. What's the difference between that and the "standard" version at 165 EUR?


The standard version has fewer mic positions. I never bother with the full libraries, as I don't see any advantage in having more mic positions.
Posted By: karvala Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/01/19 09:17 PM
Originally Posted by Erard
Interesting period piano - sweet and 'antique' tone.

I went to the Blüthner page on the VSL site, and the price for the full version is €290 (standard is €165).
On the bundle page (bundle of the three pianos, I have already two: CFX and D) the price is €197 (€116) for the full version. So I would get the Blüthner for that price.

I guess this means that if you already have the other two Synchron pianos, you get €93 off the already discounted introductory price.

Just a heads up for the people here that already own the two previous synchron pianos.


Fabulous! I owe you a beer for that.
Posted By: David B Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/01/19 10:04 PM
Originally Posted by karvala
Originally Posted by Erard
...Just a heads up for the people here that already own the two previous synchron pianos.


Fabulous! I owe you a beer for that.


Me too. I didn't even notice that until you mentioned it. Good catch.

God Bless,
David
Posted By: robinlb Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/02/19 12:59 AM
Originally Posted by Erard
Interesting period piano - sweet and 'antique' tone.

I went to the Blüthner page on the VSL site, and the price for the full version is €290 (standard is €165).
On the bundle page (bundle of the three pianos, I have already two: CFX and D) the price is €197 (€116) for the full version. So I would get the Blüthner for that price.

I guess this means that if you already have the other two Synchron pianos, you get €93 off the already discounted introductory price.

Just a heads up for the people here that already own the two previous synchron pianos.


Although it's a discount for us, but I still think it should be more lower for old users with two others.
It is time to open a new thread here for DP VSL users, talking and sharing.
Posted By: karvala Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/02/19 01:12 AM
Preliminary first impressions before I go to bed, after an initial play-through: it's pretty much what you'd expect, which is generally a good thing. No nasty surprises.

It's an 1895 vintage piano and it sounds like an 1895 vintage piano. It's clearly been properly restored and maintained, but that doesn't mean replaced with modern parts to make it sound new; it still sounds very much like a piano of that era. If that's what you're after, you'll love it. If you're after a modern piano sound, look elsewhere; this is not a cheap(er) alternative to the CFX or Steinway D. Having said that, the sound is fairly even all things considered, and surprisingly clean.

The closest VST I can think of in terms of sound is the NI Maverick, but there are two important differences. The Blüthner is a larger and much more resonant physical instrument than the Bechstein in the Maverick; from my perspective that's a good thing because it makes it suitable for a larger range of repertoire. Second is that it is somewhat higher on playability as well. It's not quite as good as the CFX or Steinway D in that respect, but that's inevitable given the source material. It is certainly the most playable period piano VST I've come across yet, which is great.

So it sounds and plays very much like it says: a period grand piano from the end of the 19th century, captured very well. Within it's niche, it's as good as they come at the moment. Just don't expect it to sound like a modern piano.
Posted By: newer player Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/02/19 01:26 AM
Thank you so much for sharing your impressions on these VIs karvala. They are fun to read, educational, and useful for those of us considering new VSTs.
Posted By: robinlb Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/02/19 02:52 AM
Thanks karvala for ur sharing!
I think the feelings are just what we need, the sound of history.
That's the charm and diversity the VSTs can provided.
I will try it tmr.
Posted By: David B Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/02/19 06:57 AM
Originally Posted by newer player
Thank you so much for sharing your impressions on these VIs karvala. They are fun to read, educational, and useful for those of us considering new VSTs.


Amen!

I'm downloading it right now. It will take about 13 more hours because of my slow internet.

I'm looking forward to the Karvala Blüthner patch. grin

God Bless,
David
Posted By: Grazilerimba Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/02/19 10:37 AM
Thank you for the first impressions and for the hint regarding the bundle price. That is indeed a nice price. I hadn't planned on getting this but for that price I might go for it.
Posted By: Erard Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/02/19 01:06 PM
Originally Posted by karvala

It's an 1895 vintage piano and it sounds like an 1895 vintage piano. It's clearly been properly restored and maintained, but that doesn't mean replaced with modern parts to make it sound new; it still sounds very much like a piano of that era. If that's what you're after, you'll love it. If you're after a modern piano sound, look elsewhere; this is not a cheap(er) alternative to the CFX or Steinway D. Having said that, the sound is fairly even all things considered, and surprisingly clean.

The closest VST I can think of in terms of sound is the NI Maverick, but there are two important differences. The Blüthner is a larger and much more resonant physical instrument than the Bechstein in the Maverick; from my perspective that's a good thing because it makes it suitable for a larger range of repertoire. Second is that it is somewhat higher on playability as well. It's not quite as good as the CFX or Steinway D in that respect, but that's inevitable given the source material. It is certainly the most playable period piano VST I've come across yet, which is great.

Great first impression Karvala.

I'm still undecided about buying it - just a little bit unconvinced about the playability (the samples are half the size per mic compared to the CFX and D).
It has probably half the number of layers of the CFX (or D) but as you seem to hint at it's probably the right technical choice - period instruments have a more limited dynamic and timbre range.

It would be a great addition for classical period music though: the Pathetique in the demos sounds so 'right' on this piano!


Posted By: MacMacMac Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/02/19 01:55 PM
This has always puzzle me because I've never been exposed:
Originally Posted by karvala
It's an 1895 vintage piano and it sounds like an 1895 vintage piano.
I've never seen or heard a piano from the late 19th century (or mid 19th ... or early 19th) ... so I don't know what such a piano sounds like. Are there any such pianos around anymore?
Posted By: newer player Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/02/19 02:59 PM
Originally Posted by Erard
I'm still undecided about buying it - just a little bit unconvinced about the playability (the samples are half the size per mic compared to the CFX and D).
It has probably half the number of layers of the CFX (or D)

Not sure. A quick read of VSLs info pages indicates number of samples per mic is 25% bigger and installed size in GB per mic is 100% bigger (Concert D vs Blüthner).

Not sure why the installed size in GB per mic is so different. I would guess the Concert D having: 25% more samples (partly due to more keys?), more pedal options, longer samples? Assuming no change in file format (e.g. 44.1/16) or compression scheme.

PER VSL
The Concert D full library has
11 "microphone positions",
219,417 samples,
266.3 GB installed size.

The Blüthner 1895 full library has
"8 microphones",
124,464 samples,
98.6GB installed size.

CALCULATED (Assuming 88 keys for both pianos)
Installed size per mic position 24.2GB vs 12.3GB. About 97% more.

VSL states the Concert D has, "Almost 20,000 samples per microphone position" (I calculate almost 16,000 for Blüthner 1895). About 25% more.

FYI VSL states the Concert D has, "over 4,000 samples per key" (I calculate 291,417/88 = 2493; maybe VSL is counting the stereo mics 2x?)
Posted By: slobajudge Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/02/19 03:56 PM
Originally Posted by Erard

Great first impression Karvala.

I'm still undecided about buying it - just a little bit unconvinced about the playability (the samples are half the size per mic compared to the CFX and D).
It has probably half the number of layers of the CFX (or D) but as you seem to hint at it's probably the right technical choice - period instruments have a more limited dynamic and timbre range.

It would be a great addition for classical period music though: the Pathetique in the demos sounds so 'right' on this piano!

That `Half size` you mention here is more than any other sample piano on the market has, every VSL piano is a sample and velocity monster, and every one of them are very playable.
Posted By: Erard Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/02/19 06:10 PM
newer player, good points - I didn't consider the number of samples.
The smaller installed size, compared to the D, it's probably due to the shorter sustain, as you mention.

See what you did? Now you've taken away my doubts and I HAVE to get a copy... laugh
Posted By: johnstaf Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/02/19 08:11 PM
The release samples are presumably smaller as well, owing to the shorter reverb time.
Posted By: karvala Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/02/19 10:47 PM
Thanks guys, I really appreciate the comments.

Originally Posted by David B

I'm downloading it right now. It will take about 13 more hours because of my slow internet.

I'm looking forward to the Karvala Blüthner patch. grin

God Bless,
David


Happy to share once I've created some. smile

Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I've never seen or heard a piano from the late 19th century (or mid 19th ... or early 19th) ... so I don't know what such a piano sounds like. Are there any such pianos around anymore?


Yes, but not many of good quality and in good condition. Early 20th century Broadwood uprights in shoddy condition are found in practically every village hall in the UK and sound horrendous for the most part. Late 19th century concert grands in top condition are indeed a rarity, though, and often in collections. I used to play the pianos in the Finchcocks collection occasionally; they're mostly earlier than that but they do have some late 19th century instruments there too.

Originally Posted by Erard

Great first impression Karvala.

I'm still undecided about buying it - just a little bit unconvinced about the playability (the samples are half the size per mic compared to the CFX and D).
It has probably half the number of layers of the CFX (or D) but as you seem to hint at it's probably the right technical choice - period instruments have a more limited dynamic and timbre range.

It would be a great addition for classical period music though: the Pathetique in the demos sounds so 'right' on this piano!


Playability is surprisingly good considering the source material and definitely doesn't feel to be limited by the sampling. I find that period instruments with somewhat unpredictable tone and dynamics are inherently more limited in their playability anyway, and that feels like the only limitation here.

Music from the classical period is indeed fun on it (even if not entirely authentic!); it somehow adds to the atmosphere. You might appreciate the additional clarity the lower reverb/resonance brings when playing Bach or Scarlatti as well. It's also fun to play Rachmaninoff or Debussy with the notion that this is the type of instrument they might have been using themselves (also not strictly accurate, since it wouldn't have been over 100 years old when they were playing, but still!). It is a bit of a novelty instrument, but of the various period instruments I have it's the only one that goes beyond that and has potential for everyday use.

Originally Posted by johnstaf
The release samples are presumably smaller as well, owing to the shorter reverb time.


Yeah, I agree this is likely to be the case. The reverb time is significantly shorter.
Posted By: Erard Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/03/19 08:14 AM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
This has always puzzle me because I've never been exposed:
Originally Posted by karvala
It's an 1895 vintage piano and it sounds like an 1895 vintage piano.
I've never seen or heard a piano from the late 19th century (or mid 19th ... or early 19th) ... so I don't know what such a piano sounds like. Are there any such pianos around anymore?

Here are a couple of youtube videos from the Chopin Competition on Period Instruments. These are rare and perfectly restored instruments.

The piano is an Erard, built in 1837 - twelve years before Chopin death in 1849 - so quite representative of the state of the art at the time:
Chopin Sonata in B flat minor

Here the piano is a Pleyel - Chopin's favorite - built in 1842:
Chopin Polonaise in A flat major
Posted By: Grazilerimba Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/03/19 11:37 AM
Thanks for these links Erard. I have to admit I find it hard to enjoy the sound of these recordings. My ears have gotten used to contemporary grand pianos too much. It fells to me as if something is lacking. Very interesting that Chopin wrote on such instruments.
Posted By: sorrownightingale Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/03/19 11:46 AM
I also bought the Bluethner...
Guys, would it be possible scale tunning on synchron pianos?, Bluethner with Werckmeister or Kirnberger tunning for Bach would be great!!
Posted By: CyberGene Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/03/19 12:22 PM
Originally Posted by Grazilerimba
Thanks for these links Erard. I have to admit I find it hard to enjoy the sound of these recordings. My ears have gotten used to contemporary grand pianos too much. It fells to me as if something is lacking. Very interesting that Chopin wrote on such instruments.

I’ve been interested in this topic for a long time, since Chopin is my favorite composer but ultimately I never managed to like those period instruments, and so I share the same feeling. To me they sound almost like honky-tonk or ragtime pianos and it’s interesting indeed that Chopin wrote on such instruments.
Posted By: Erard Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/03/19 03:25 PM
Originally Posted by sorrownightingale
I also bought the Bluethner...
Guys, would it be possible scale tunning on synchron pianos?, Bluethner with Werckmeister or Kirnberger tunning for Bach would be great!!

Yes, it is possible - you have to enter the deviation in cents on each group of notes (all the As, all the A#s etc.) for the historical tuning.
On the main screen, click on Edit, then click on Tuning on the right over the virtual keyboard. Click on a note selector (white/grey area over the keyboard) and now you can modify the value in Note tuning (in cents).

It's quite a cumbersome process, but it is doable. This tuning facility is not meant to be used for historical tunings, but to tune the piano to your liking.
I asked Paul about historical tunings, and he replied that "a more advanced tuning option with different tuning-tables is on our to-do-list".
This was over a year ago.

Posted By: johnstaf Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/03/19 09:45 PM
Originally Posted by sorrownightingale
I also bought the Bluethner...
Guys, would it be possible scale tunning on synchron pianos?, Bluethner with Werckmeister or Kirnberger tunning for Bach would be great!!


You have to tune each note individually. There's no simpler way.
Posted By: johnstaf Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/03/19 09:49 PM
Originally Posted by CyberGene

I’ve been interested in this topic for a long time, since Chopin is my favorite composer but ultimately I never managed to like those period instruments, and so I share the same feeling. To me they sound almost like honky-tonk or ragtime pianos and it’s interesting indeed that Chopin wrote on such instruments.


It's even more extreme of course for "authentic" Mozart. I prefer a concert grand.

I like the Blüthner, as it's mostly a modern piano.
Posted By: David B Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/07/19 12:54 AM
I'm really enjoying this Bluthner. It has a nice clarity and smoothness to it. It doesn't have the power in the low end like the VSL CFX does, but it feels very authentic. It almost feels more acoustic than the other VSL pianos I have. I think it might have to do with the smaller studio they sampled it in and probably because I play 6ft acoustic grands on occasion. It feels more intimate like this is actually a piano you'd have in your home. Also, the Aliquot system really adds a beautiful resonance to the upper register.

I'm waiting for Karvala to send me his patches because he really brings out the best in my VSL pianos. For now, here is a modified version of the Player/Sur preset. I've added the Ribbon and Condenser mics but kept everything else the same. It diminishes some of the clarity, but adds more body to the piano and sounds more powerful coming through my speakers at home.

Here is a simple little hymn I arranged using some basics from my Duane Shinn course.



God bless,
David
Posted By: JJHLH Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/07/19 02:09 AM
Nice playing David!
Posted By: Craig Richards Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/07/19 02:43 AM
Well played David - I can hear you are really 'feeling' this instrument. Great tone & depth. This Bluthner could be my first foray into VSL!
Posted By: robinlb Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/07/19 03:03 AM
Great voice, nice playing, David !
Can you share some settings of your 1895?
Im just getting used to this period sound comparing modern grand, and VSL presets are ungelivable as always.
Btw, what's the Aliquot system?
Posted By: David B Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/07/19 03:48 AM
Originally Posted by JJHLH
Nice playing David!


Thank you.

Originally Posted by Craig Richards
Well played David - I can hear you are really 'feeling' this instrument. Great tone & depth. This Bluthner could be my first foray into VSL!


I do feel that there is a more organic experience playing the Bluthner. There is more body resonance without there being more reverb. You feel like you're sitting in front of an old (but restored) piano. It seems like you can hear the mechanics of the instrument more. I turned off the pedal noise because it was WAY too loud.

Originally Posted by robinlb
Great voice, nice playing, David !
Can you share some settings of your 1895?
Im just getting used to this period sound comparing modern grand, and VSL presets are ungelivable as always.
Btw, what's the Aliquot system?


I'm not at home right now so I don't have the exact patch information in front of me. I just added the Ribbon and Condenser mics to the Player/sur preset. Everything else stayed the same (with the exception of turning off the pedal noise).

I never heard of the "Aliquot" system until VSL introduced the Bluthner. Evidently, it is a 4th string added to the keys that usually have three strings and it's tuned an octave higher. The 4th string is not struck by the hammer, but rather allowed to sympathetically resonate with the other strings. It adds a very beautiful quality to the upper register. It unlike anything I've ever heard before.

God bless,
David

Posted By: robinlb Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/07/19 07:12 AM
Many Thanks David,

Learn more for about "Aliquot" system, it's a wonderful design.
I can feel the upper notes have beautiful and special voice, comparing with metallic taste on D274 or silvery bell on CFX.
But good skill is necessary to play this instrument well, I have to keep practicing.
will try mics setting as ur patch.
Posted By: rententen Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/07/19 07:23 AM
Hello and thanks for your demo and insights.
I created this account for a question I have regarding the additional mics coming with the Full Library.

I got the Synchron Yamaha CFX and like it a lot, but as someone already mentioned before there is a lot of reverb in those samples (might be a personal impression, but for me I'd also like to have the option to a have a less wet sound), admittedly I only got the Standard library though.
So my question would be:
With those additional mics of the Full Library of the Blüthner (Ribbon, Sphere, Mid 2), is it possible to achieve a relatively dry sound? Is it considerably "dryer" than the mics you get in the Standard library?

Most likely I will get the Blüthner, because of its rich and warm sound, which I like a lot. I'm not sure yet though if Standard of Full Library for me.
For those who have played it already, what's your impression of dry/wet and in general of Standard/Full Library?

Thanks,
Philipp
Posted By: robinlb Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/07/19 08:06 AM
IMO, for dry sound, close-mics are necessary.
But both of CFX and Bluthner std is only one close mic, it's not enough to create a fully near field.
That's the value of full version, not only atmospher mics.
Posted By: rententen Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/07/19 02:11 PM
That's exactly the kind of answer I was looking for, thanks. I will have to dig deeper into my purse then. smile
Posted By: RalphK Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/09/19 08:29 PM
I bought and installed the Bluthner full library today, and I'm quite happy with it. It sounds different that most 'modern' VST grands (and I have a lot of them in addition to the very good Kawai SK-EX samples in my Novus 10). The sound and feel is very realistic, in this respect better than most VST's. If you are looking for a recent 'period' grand, this is it! Pianoteq's historical collection is also great, but this Bluthner beats them all.
Posted By: johnstaf Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/10/19 04:25 AM
Originally Posted by robinlb
IMO, for dry sound, close-mics are necessary.
But both of CFX and Bluthner std is only one close mic, it's not enough to create a fully near field.
That's the value of full version, not only atmospher mics.


These are not single mics, but stereo pairs of spaced mics. The only single mic is the centre mic of the Decca Tree array.
Posted By: robinlb Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/10/19 08:28 AM
Originally Posted by johnstaf
Originally Posted by robinlb
IMO, for dry sound, close-mics are necessary.
But both of CFX and Bluthner std is only one close mic, it's not enough to create a fully near field.
That's the value of full version, not only atmospher mics.


These are not single mics, but stereo pairs of spaced mics. The only single mic is the centre mic of the Decca Tree array.


I use one not single, and it means one set of close mic, not mono mic.
Std version of CFX and Bluthner only provides one set of close mic. But full version will add other 1~2 close mics.
Posted By: Engelm Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 09/06/19 06:22 PM
Before, I had only Yamaha CFX by VSL. This is the VSTi that made me delete all the other piano virtual instruments including Garritan CFX Full version. It is really hard not to be satisfied with it when you find the perfect settings. For me it is still the most perfect virtual instrument that you can own nowadays and the sound is so authentic that it made me practice more than usual (And it killed my urge for looking for another VSTs). I thought that I don't need anything more but few weeks ago I bought a bundle that includes all the Synchron pianos (because of the price) and now I'm in heaven. Both Steinway and Bluthner sounds awesome and when you own the bundle it feels more like you really own three different pianos and not like owning three different vsti's. In the end the Bluthner is the piano I'm using the most.

Bluthner sounds really nice but it is a bit difficult to make it sound beautiful and the struggle certainly pays off. With this piano I feel like I must be more careful when pressing the keys which I think is perfect for practice especially when you own other piano from VSL for comparison. I learned one piece by Scarlatti using Bluthner and even though at the beginning I had some worries at the end I learnt to play it in a way that it made me think that this piano is awesome and fell in love with it! After that then I played the same piece using Yamaha CFX by synchron and wow.... it sounded so good that I couldn't believe that I play it myself. I think I really improved by using this old sampled piano. When you play badly you can hear it more clearly by using Bluthner. When I was satisfied with some old pieces that I learnt using Yamaha CFX then when using Bluthner I discovered many other things that I should work on which is a very good thing. I think It was the best buy I could make in my current situation and I have no regrets.
Posted By: robinlb Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 09/06/19 11:57 PM
Yes Engelm,

VSL CFX made me feel I can play so beautifully,
VSL D274 made me feel I can play so powerfully,
But Bluthner1895 made me realize how bad my skill was.
It needs more careful work of both setting and playing.
Posted By: Craig Richards Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 09/07/19 03:55 AM
Originally Posted by robinlb
Yes Engelm,

VSL CFX made me feel I can play so beautifully,
VSL D274 made me feel I can play so powerfully,
But Bluthner1895 made me realize how bad my skill was.
It needs more careful work of both setting and playing.


Engelm & robinlb - I'm interested to know what type of systems you are running the VSL pianos from (CPU, RAM & Disk type). I am put off from buying them because of the high specs required, including an SSD which I don't own. Really want this Bluthner!
Posted By: robinlb Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 09/07/19 02:57 PM
Originally Posted by Craig Richards


Engelm & robinlb - I'm interested to know what type of systems you are running the VSL pianos from (CPU, RAM & Disk type). I am put off from buying them because of the high specs required, including an SSD which I don't own. Really want this Bluthner!


Hello,

I use i7 9700 48GB RAM and Nvme M2 SSD(Samsung evo) for full version VSL synchron piano,
and usually set 6~8 mics active. The whole system runs well and smoothly.
Btw, if you use Windows Steinberg or RME USB audio interface will be more permanent and low latency by their software driver.
Above for your reference.

~~~~~
If you choose Bluthner of the three, should be aware of the different period sound comparing with other two modern grand.
Posted By: Craig Richards Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 09/07/19 03:21 PM
Originally Posted by robinlb
Originally Posted by Craig Richards


Engelm & robinlb - I'm interested to know what type of systems you are running the VSL pianos from (CPU, RAM & Disk type). I am put off from buying them because of the high specs required, including an SSD which I don't own. Really want this Bluthner!


Hello,

I use i7 9700 48GB RAM and Nvme M2 SSD(Samsung evo) for full version VSL synchron piano,
and usually set 6~8 mics active. The whole system runs well and smoothly.
Btw, if you use Windows Steinberg or RME USB audio interface will be more permanent and low latency by their software driver.
Above for your reference.

~~~~~
If you choose Bluthner of the three, should be aware of the different period sound comparing with other two modern grand.


Thank you for the detailed reply - much appreciated. I'm aware of the unique tonal character of the Bluthner, which for me is a welcome contrast to all the Steinway & Yamaha sampled pianos out there smile
Posted By: robinlb Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 09/07/19 04:31 PM
Originally Posted by Craig Richards


Thank you for the detailed reply - much appreciated. I'm aware of the unique tonal character of the Bluthner, which for me is a welcome contrast to all the Steinway & Yamaha sampled pianos out there smile


Yes, it's very unique and need good skills.
To get a better and accurate playing, can make the fine tuning for some notes if needed(VSL piano player can edit key volume and EQ for each note).
If you only use Bluthner(relative small sample amount vs other 2), I think slightly lower hardware configuration than I mentioned will be OK.
Posted By: Engelm Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 09/07/19 07:44 PM
Originally Posted by Craig Richards
Originally Posted by robinlb
Yes Engelm,

VSL CFX made me feel I can play so beautifully,
VSL D274 made me feel I can play so powerfully,
But Bluthner1895 made me realize how bad my skill was.
It needs more careful work of both setting and playing.


Engelm & robinlb - I'm interested to know what type of systems you are running the VSL pianos from (CPU, RAM & Disk type). I am put off from buying them because of the high specs required, including an SSD which I don't own. Really want this Bluthner!


I have lite version of each library (and I have no motivation to upgrade because I'm really satisfied with what I have). I'm using it with old generation CPU that actually is very cheap. My present configuration looks like this:
Intel i5-3470 3,20GHZ
8GB Ram
ssd drive 500GB (ssd drive is crucial because when you have normal hard drive you will have to wait around 15-30 minutes to load the library depending how many mic positions are you using. With SSD it takes around 10 seconds to load)
Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 (For low latency)

Before, I was using CPU i3-3xxx 3,20GHZ and it worked as good as with new CPU. But I'm using only two mic positions at once and I noticed it is really hard to use processor more than 60% in that configuration (you must be at least at level 8 abrsm to be able to play pieces that make you CPU usage reach 50% of it's power. Even if you play 'Flight Of The Bumblebee' by Rimsky-Korsakov it would be really hard to exceed CPU over 60%. Additionally I have cheapest version of focusrite which enables playing at low latency but I think with asio4all it will be fine if you are short of money. You really don't need supercomputer to use that library, : )
Posted By: Craig Richards Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 09/09/19 05:56 AM
Originally Posted by Engelm
Originally Posted by Craig Richards
Originally Posted by robinlb
Yes Engelm,

VSL CFX made me feel I can play so beautifully,
VSL D274 made me feel I can play so powerfully,
But Bluthner1895 made me realize how bad my skill was.
It needs more careful work of both setting and playing.


Engelm & robinlb - I'm interested to know what type of systems you are running the VSL pianos from (CPU, RAM & Disk type). I am put off from buying them because of the high specs required, including an SSD which I don't own. Really want this Bluthner!


I have lite version of each library (and I have no motivation to upgrade because I'm really satisfied with what I have). I'm using it with old generation CPU that actually is very cheap. My present configuration looks like this:
Intel i5-3470 3,20GHZ
8GB Ram
ssd drive 500GB (ssd drive is crucial because when you have normal hard drive you will have to wait around 15-30 minutes to load the library depending how many mic positions are you using. With SSD it takes around 10 seconds to load)
Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 (For low latency)

Before, I was using CPU i3-3xxx 3,20GHZ and it worked as good as with new CPU. But I'm using only two mic positions at once and I noticed it is really hard to use processor more than 60% in that configuration (you must be at least at level 8 abrsm to be able to play pieces that make you CPU usage reach 50% of it's power. Even if you play 'Flight Of The Bumblebee' by Rimsky-Korsakov it would be really hard to exceed CPU over 60%. Additionally I have cheapest version of focusrite which enables playing at low latency but I think with asio4all it will be fine if you are short of money. You really don't need supercomputer to use that library, : )


Thanks Engelm - great information. Much appreciated.
Posted By: KevinM Re: VSL Synchron Bluethner 1895 - 08/01/20 03:45 PM
I had the demo tracks via soundcloud for the Blüthner on repeat. I'm honestly not sure i can hold out until black friday for a discount. But I need to pull back on my spending.

first world problem.
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