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Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update

Posted By: Chantel

Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 12:34 AM

Greetings members.
I’m new to the forum and was wondering if anyone has done the latest software update as of April 2019 for the Yamaha Nu1x. It’s says on Yamaha software update page that the V2:10 update improves playability. I’m thinking seriously about purchasing the piano but am aware of the “loud note” issue, I’m just wondering if this update fixes or improves the situation?
I’m actually looking at both the Yamaha clp685 and the Nu1x. Both seem to have advantages and disadvantages. I did actually prefer the speaker sound of the 685 but the action of the Nu1x felt better to me. The 685 was not bad though just different.
I should say I’m not a great pianist. I’m a adult learner and just love playing and find it very meditative. I just sold a KAWAk200 which I really enjoyed and was more than enough piano for me, its just that I’m moving into a condo and really need a digital for practice at all hours and keep everyone happy.
I think if someone has done the software update and can confirm the loud note issue has improved I will probable get the Nu1x.
I think I could be happy with the 645 to though it sounded great.
Thank for your time and comments.
Chantel .
Posted By: CyberGene

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 01:28 AM

This is really curious. So, after all, Yamaha have come up with some way to improve the situation but it remains to be seen how much. I don’t think they have solved the issue because it’s impossible due to only key sensors. But maybe there’s some clever logic to detect quiet trills for instance and look for sudden changes in volume. I’m really curious to see what they did.
Posted By: Pete14

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 01:48 AM

I wish Yamaha would’ve been a bit more specific: “Loud note issue completely eradicated; we dare you to try and recreate it.”
Instead they went with ‘improved playability.’
Posted By: oneilt130

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 02:43 AM

I will update my NU1X later this week though before Ido that I am going no to work on being able to repeat the loud note issue on a regular basis so I can do some before and after testing. As it stands now at my skill level and for what I am playing it rarely occurs. It did appear somewhat regularly when I first got it but seemed to have died down.
Posted By: MacMacMac

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 09:29 AM

Yamaha would never say "we fixed some bad stuff".
Originally Posted by Pete14
I wish Yamaha would’ve been a bit more specific: “Loud note issue completely eradicated; we dare you to try and recreate it.”
Instead they went with ‘improved playability.’
If only we had someone from Yamaha here on the board. Someone with more information to share.
Where are you Yamaha James!?
Posted By: oneilt130

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 10:00 AM

I installed the update this morning. Before doing it my testing for the loud not issue was just playing C and D as fast as I could at a low volume trying not to lift key completely. I couldn't duplicate it as well as CyberGene but I was able to get it to happen once every 5-10 seconds with this test.

After installing the update I did the same test. From my limited testing what I think has changed is two things. First the frequency of getting the random loud note has dropped,. I needed to play longer to get any perceived difference. Second when I think I had the issue (not sure it it was the loud note issue or my inconsistent playing) the loud note wasn't nearly as loud as it was before. Prior to this update the note was at max volume. Now it seems to be a bit louder. You can notice it but it doesn't standout. This was just a quick test this morning, it will be interesting to see if I notice it when doing my normal practice.
Posted By: Pete14

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 10:01 AM

Mac, we do have a Yamaha agent amongst us, but unlike James, he is a spy. He lingers, he lurks, he then goes back to Yamaha and reports on his findings.
“They seem to be obsessed with pivots and the likes, so never mind true innovation, just giv’em longer pivots and flashy lights,” said the Yamaha spy to his superiors. laugh
Posted By: MacMacMac

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 10:06 AM

Name your guy! I'll have you brought before the PW circuit court to testify! smile
Originally Posted by Pete14
Mac, we do have a Yamaha agent amongst us, but unlike James, he is a spy. He lingers, he lurks, he then goes back to Yamaha and reports on his findings.
“They seem to be obsessed with pivots and the likes, so never mind true innovation, just giv’em longer pivots and flashy lights,” said the Yamaha spy to his superiors. laugh
Posted By: Chantel

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 11:21 AM

I think this is sounding like good news.
Thanks you everyone for responding to thread so quickly.
I’ve got my fingers crossed it is a fix.
What then should I buy the Nu1x or the clp 685. Also thinking kawai cs 11,
From all the things I could fond on this site ‘ most
of you say Nu1x is best if mot for ‘loud note” issue.
Thank you for your thoughts.
Chantel .
Posted By: Chantel

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 11:45 AM

Thank you Onilit130
Posted By: CyberGene

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 12:27 PM

I don't think the issue can be eliminated only through a software fix. Using only key sensors with upright piano action has its limitations. What they have probably implemented are some software heuristics to predict the chance of a loud note. I'm wondering if it came at the cost of anything else though.

The only eventual improvement which would eliminate part of the issue is this:
if a key has been repeated and the time between the previous strike and this one is shorter than A milliseconds AND measured velocity is higher than B, then play the new note with a lower velocity, e.g. C x measured velocity.

Where A, B, C are predefined constants. Or maybe they have devised much more complex heuristics or I am missing something.

P.S. What's amazing to me is that after a relatively long period of Yamaha doing nothing regarding this issue, they have ultimately decided to implement (desperate?) attempts at resolving it. I can speculate that many pianos are being returned by customers at the expense of Yamaha themselves and there's now even greater awareness among customers regarding the issue and Yamaha have been under more and more pressure.
Posted By: MacMacMac

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 12:40 PM

@CyberGene: Are saying that the NU1X has an upright action, in contrast to the N1X with its grand action?
Just trying to sort this out.
Posted By: oneilt130

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by CyberGene
I don't think the issue can be eliminated only through a software fix. Using only key sensors with upright piano action has its limitations. What they have probably implemented are some software heuristics to predict the chance of a loud note. I'm wondering if it came at the cost of anything else though.

The only eventual improvement which would eliminate part of the issue is this:
if a key has been repeated and the time between the previous strike and this one is shorter than A milliseconds AND measured velocity is higher than B, then play the new note with a lower velocity, e.g. C x measured velocity.

Where A, B, C are predefined constants. Or maybe they have devised much more complex heuristics or I am missing something.

P.S. What's amazing to me is that after a relatively long period of Yamaha doing nothing regarding this issue, they have ultimately decided to implement (desperate?) attempts at resolving it. I can speculate that many pianos are being returned by customers at the expense of Yamaha themselves and there's now even greater awareness among customers regarding the issue and Yamaha have been under more and more pressure.


A few thoughts. First I agree that you can't fix the underlying cause of the issue with software alone. However I do think you can go a long way to mitigating the issue. I work with process control systems and every so often a sensor will go off the rails and report a level that is way out of wack. In the case of what I am working with it could be a sensor detecting a wet well level and the high value would set off an alarm and call people in to man the plant. This was enough of an issue that in simplified terms we ended up going with a rolling average of inputs from the sensor. We were polling it several times a second and if one result was way off it's impact was dampened by using the rolling average as the deterministic value and not the actual sensor reading.

Here I could see Yamaha creating a module that monitored the repetition rate and velocity of the keys. If one key at a high repetition rate had a velocity that was a significant deviation from the previous keys then you could modify that value before sending it on to the next stage of the sound generation process. This could reduce/ mitigate the loud note issue significantly. This is an oversimplification but I can see a way you can mitigate this with software. The downside would be if you wanted to play repetitive notes PP and then have one note at FF this approach would limit that ability.

Of course I am not the best at testing the loud note issue and this is just based on a few minutes this morning. After I few days I should get a better feeling if this is an actual change or I am just imagining it. smile
Posted By: oneilt130

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by MacMacMac
@CyberGene: Are saying that the NU1X has an upright action, in contrast to the N1X with its grand action?
Just trying to sort this out.


The NU1X is a upright action. It feels very similar to Yamaha's U1 acoustic piano.
Posted By: oneilt130

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by Chantel
I think this is sounding like good news.
Thanks you everyone for responding to thread so quickly.
I’ve got my fingers crossed it is a fix.
What then should I buy the Nu1x or the clp 685. Also thinking kawai cs 11,
From all the things I could fond on this site ‘ most
of you say Nu1x is best if mot for ‘loud note” issue.
Thank you for your thoughts.
Chantel .


You should buy whatever piano you feel best when playing. (How's that for stating the obvious) I looked at the CLP 685 and the NU1X and ended up going with the NU1X. The reason for my choice is that I really would have preferred an acoustic but needed the ability to play with headphones. The hybrids do the best job of emulating that experience. All of the features other than just sitting down and playing the the default settings, like an acoustic, where not something I was looking for. If I wanted all of the different voices, ability to layer tracks and such I might have gone with the CLP 685. One other thought is that for me I thought the Binaural CFX on the NU1X was the best sounding in headphones of anything I played in that price range.
Posted By: Pete14

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 01:06 PM

Not trying to speculate, but seriously, why are we so certain that this upgrade is intended to deal with the “loud note” issue? Yamaha simply says ‘....improved playability..’
Posted By: Chantel

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 01:12 PM

Ok. You guys really know your technical stuff. I do appreciate that.
Really looking forward to hearing back from the ones of you that have done the upgrade and what difference it has made to a real world listener like me who is not a technician or programmer.
Like I said I do appreciate all your expertise with this that’s why I came to this forum, it’s awesome. I think I’m just hoping for some improvement. Happening 75% less and 75% less loud to a problem that happens only 25% of the time is big improvement in my thoughts. However I do understand for the master Players who can afford and deserve better instruments a significant improvement may not be enough for the cost of the piano.
Looking forward to your further experiences.
Thank you for your time.
Any thoughts on the Yamaha CLP-685 or KAWAI cs11 option. I think I found the cs11 action a bit spongy, but I am coming from A k200 acoustic.
Posted By: Chantel

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 01:18 PM

Thank you Onelit130
Yes at the end of the day that is what I will do go with my heart.
It’s just they all have pros and cons. I did prefer the sound of the clp685 speakers. Just sounded warmer to me and a little less metallic to my ears. The action on Nu1x. Did feel better. I understand why you chose it. However it did sound like I said a bit metallic on my ears. I know sitting at digitalis for a bit can start to tire my ears. That why I love acoustics but I just hev to move on from them. Can you adjust your Nu1x so that it sound a little less bright in the top end? That would be an easy fix for me.
Thank you so much, your being a great help.
Posted By: oneilt130

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by Chantel
Thank you Onelit130
Yes at the end of the day that is what I will do go with my heart.
It’s just they all have pros and cons. I did prefer the sound of the clp685 speakers. Just sounded warmer to me and a little less metallic to my ears. The action on Nu1x. Did feel better. I understand why you chose it. However it did sound like I said a bit metallic on my ears. I know sitting at digitalis for a bit can start to tire my ears. That why I love acoustics but I just hev to move on from them. Can you adjust your Nu1x so that it sound a little less bright in the top end? That would be an easy fix for me.
Thank you so much, your being a great help.


I don't adjust the sound much at all, just the reverb. I do know that the NU1X doesn't have a brightness adjustment. People have reported that the N1X does.
Posted By: CyberGene

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 01:31 PM

Mac, I am kind of surprised, have you not read anything about NU1X? There are many threads, I've explained with a lot of details the issue, why it happens and yes, the main reason being it's an upright action smile I guess that answers your question but there's much more to it. If you're interested, just search for it, there's a lot of information.

As to the upright action. I've grown playing an upright. Maybe that's why I still find the purely mechanical feel of an upright action more familiar to me and it's the best feeling one. It's prety lively and somehow makes me feel the hammer and the underlying mechanics more than a grand action. It's important to note I'm speaking only about the feel of the action itself and not the actual playability and control. From that point of view, the action in N1X feels meatier but in a rather bad way, requiring more force and ultimately being more tiring for the hands. Again, that's only the mechanical feel. In reality I've been able to control dynamics better on the N1X and ultimately I play (much) better on N1X. However NU1X feels to me more familiar and if it wasn't for the loud note issue and the inconsistent velocity issues I've had, I would have lived perfectly with it.
Posted By: Chantel

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 01:31 PM

Thank you.
Perhaps the Bosendorfer through the speakers and the cfx through headphones would be a great way to go. I know people don’t like the Bosendorfer sound on those pianos but perhaps for me coming from an acoustic it may help speaker fatigue. I get you about the headphones sound of cfx it sounded really great.
Posted By: oneilt130

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Pete14
Not trying to speculate, but seriously, why are we so certain that this upgrade is intended to deal with the “loud note” issue? Yamaha simply says ‘....improved playability..’



This is where we really miss CyberGene being a NU1X owner. By now he would have this upgrade completely broken down, analyzed and video demos of the changes.

We don't know at the moment if it actually fixes it. Just from my limited before and after testing for 5 minutes it seems to be reduced. After a few days of playing I should have a better handle on it. I never really came across it that often so it's hard for me to tell. I can understand Yamaha not mentioning that this issue was fixed because they never considered in an issue and the first thing your corporate legal department will tell you is to never acknowledge a problem with your product unless you absolutely have to. Or as someone at a large software company once told me, we don't have bugs, we have programming anomalies. smile
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by oneilt130
Or as someone at a large software company once told me, we don't have bugs, we have programming anomalies. smile

Ok, that makes sense, because all the programming anomalies are features! grin
Posted By: Pete14

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 01:44 PM

CG could hop on a train (flash drive in hand) head to the nearest dealer, upgrade the heck out of that there NU1X, go about testing all systems, and then report his findings back to the mothership. shocked
Posted By: Gombessa

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by CyberGene
From that point of view, the action in N1X feels meatier but in a rather bad way, requiring more force and ultimately being more tiring for the hands. Again, that's only the mechanical feel. In reality I've been able to control dynamics better on the N1X and ultimately I play (much) better on N1X. However NU1X feels to me more familiar and if it wasn't for the loud note issue and the inconsistent velocity issues I've had, I would have lived perfectly with it.


IMO, this has less to do with upright versus grand, and more to do with how Yamaha's hybrid actions feel. When I play the NU1/NU1X/N1/N2/N3/N3X, I felt that they all had a stiffer-than-normal response than what I was used to with 6'+ Yamaha grands or the older Yamaha U3 uprights I normally play. They're just not light actions at all (which I think is a preference issue and not a complaint). I also found the NV10's Millennium III action a bit stiffer than ideal, but a better balance between a "practice" and a "performance" action than the AGs' especially stiff action. Just my personal experience there.

Originally Posted by Pete14
Not trying to speculate, but seriously, why are we so certain that this upgrade is intended to deal with the “loud note” issue? Yamaha simply says ‘....improved playability..’


+1. Other than the folks providing direct feedback on the new patch, I think there's a\ bit of unfounded speculation at this point. One question--is this update available for the NU1 as well? If so I can give it a try (since the underlying sensing system should be identical between the two). I experience the loud note issue multiple times on any piece I play (probably due to HOW I play) and have always been able to repro the issue on demand. Unlike CyberGene, I do feel the issue CAN be largely alleviated with a firmware change, but it depends a lot on how you play and what kind of response you expect from the key/action.
Posted By: Chantel

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 04:10 PM

CyberGene you play beautifully. If I could play like you I would buy the n1x and call it a day.
I hope you don’t regret buying that piano because I for sure could hear and see how wonderfully you expressed on it.
As I said I’m not an experienced pianist but I am an artist and musical. I agree there is something liberating when I sit at an upright and I just feel more playful and less, Intimidated, is probable the best word. Having said that every time I sit at a grand and feel a grand action I want to play emotively. It feels like a privilege to sit at a nice grand and feel what I would describe as a more delicate action. My teacher has a Shigeru Kawai and It is really wonderful. I just can’t play well enough to truly take advantage. I did sit at a Yamaha AVn1 the older model AV and it felt really great. It’s just out of my budget and probable and as I said not needed. Like I said if I could play like you CyberGene I would get it and for sure find the money to get the latest model x.
Interesting I found the clp 685 felt more like an upright action than a grand action. Did anyone else feel that way.
Posted By: Chantel

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 04:15 PM

Thank you Gombessa. I think I am use to a firmer K200 action so Nu1x felt fine and n1 felt lighter. I think if the loud note software update controls the loud notes a lot Nu1x is probable the one for me. Not hearing a lot of love for the clp685. I think it was the slightly less icy metallic sound to the speakers that I liked about the 685.
Thanks again
Posted By: BradleyG

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by oneilt130
I installed the update this morning. Before doing it my testing for the loud not issue was just playing C and D as fast as I could at a low volume trying not to lift key completely. I couldn't duplicate it as well as CyberGene but I was able to get it to happen once every 5-10 seconds with this test.


oneilt130, I'm planning on doing the update when I get home from work tonight. Do you know what file system format you used for your USB key? I'm going to be doing this from a Mac, and my recollection from trying (and failing) to do this with my CP4 a long time ago was that it was a pain generating a key that the instrument would recognized.

I plan on doing my best to sort out some repeatable ( :P ) AB tests to see if I can glean the difference the update brings.
Posted By: CyberGene

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by Chantel
CyberGene you play beautifully. If I could play like you I would buy the n1x and call it a day.
I hope you don’t regret buying that piano because I for sure could hear and see how wonderfully you expressed on it.
As I said I’m not an experienced pianist but I am an artist and musical. I agree there is something liberating when I sit at an upright and I just feel more playful and less, Intimidated, is probable the best word. Having said that every time I sit at a grand and feel a grand action I want to play emotively. It feels like a privilege to sit at a nice grand and feel what I would describe as a more delicate action. My teacher has a Shigeru Kawai and It is really wonderful. I just can’t play well enough to truly take advantage. I did sit at a Yamaha AVn1 the older model AV and it felt really great. It’s just out of my budget and probable and as I said not needed. Like I said if I could play like you CyberGene I would get it and for sure find the money to get the latest model x.
Interesting I found the clp 685 felt more like an upright action than a grand action. Did anyone else feel that way.

Thanks for the nice words! smile Well, I'm not sorry to purchase the N1X, quite on the contrary, I'm actually happy that all those issues with my NU1X ultimately contributed for me to be ripe for purchasing the N1X which I can describe as the love of my musical life smile Right at the time of purchasing the NU1X I though that was the maximum budget I should spend for a digital instrument and owning it for a month made me realize I'm ready for even more than that.

Well, my sentiment about the NU1X is most probably coming from my youth with an upright. I'm sure N1X is the better instrument in any respect but sometimes the nostalgia can be stronger than reason. You can even blame it on the fact I've grown up in a rather poor family and I've been taught to have guilt over any purchase smile Although I haven't broken my bank account I still experience some inbuilt guilt from time to time which is I'm not a professional musician and why would I need a N1X when there are real pianists who might need it but can't afford it... Sorry for the emotional offtopic smile
Posted By: oneilt130

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by BradleyG
Originally Posted by oneilt130
I installed the update this morning. Before doing it my testing for the loud not issue was just playing C and D as fast as I could at a low volume trying not to lift key completely. I couldn't duplicate it as well as CyberGene but I was able to get it to happen once every 5-10 seconds with this test.


oneilt130, I'm planning on doing the update when I get home from work tonight. Do you know what file system format you used for your USB key? I'm going to be doing this from a Mac, and my recollection from trying (and failing) to do this with my CP4 a long time ago was that it was a pain generating a key that the instrument would recognized.

I plan on doing my best to sort out some repeatable ( :P ) AB tests to see if I can glean the difference the update brings.


Using Windows I took a USB drive and removed the contents then copied over the NU1XSETUP.PRG file. Plugged that into the NU1X and followed the update instructions. The whole process took very little time. The only downside is it appears to have cleared the WiFi settings so I will have to put those back tonight.
Posted By: Pete14

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 04:35 PM

We await thee, BradleyG, for in thee rests the weight of that-there loud note which has prevented our brethren from reaching thy promise land. We await thee, BradleyG! laugh
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by CyberGene
Although I haven't broken my bank account I still experience some inbuilt guilt from time to time which is I'm not a professional musician and why would I need a N1X when there are real pianists who might need it but can't afford it... Sorry for the emotional offtopic smile

This reminds me of a Reddit thread I read 6 months ago (LOL, my memory thing again LOL) which was someone announcing they bought a nice hybrid - might have been an N3X and posted pics. One of the commenters, who appeared to be either a piano teacher or someone who makes their living playing piano commented a very discouraging and bitter message about how "of course" the OP wasn't a piano professional because of course piano professionals like this commenter were just trying to make ends meet and could never afford such a luxury instrument. I don't think the comments were well received, as you could guess, but it did make me wonder if it is true that most purchasers of high-end pianos - whether digital or acoustic - don't actually "deserve" them from a skill perspective. I know I will not be deserving mine. (Although maybe it will cause me to work harder on my piano skills in striving to deserve it some day! thumb )
Posted By: Chantel

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 04:59 PM

You are right CyberGene.
I know that guilt feeling as I grew up poor also. 1960s family with 6 children. Don’t hear that much anymore. We would never been able to afford a piano a or lessons. Thats’s why I had to wait until I was an adult to start and an old one at that. I think you are a little younger than I but I if could just say although pianos are not food to eat, music and a wonderful instrument that lets you express yourself has got to be right up there with the best things you can do for quality of life and health. It is money well we’ll spent, which I think you know. Trust me money goes places. You should see what people are spending on cars in Toronto. It is crazy and I get a funny feeling folks that spend money on them are not getting the satisfaction out of their hundred thousand dollar vehicles as you from your much less expensive investment. Like I said if I could play like you. Think of all the years you have invested into your passion. Trust me you deserve that piano.
Posted By: EPW

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 05:42 PM

I have an acquaintance who is very well to do and brought an expensive Yamaha Grand Piano for his kids. Only one of the several children ever took lessons. His comment was well I tried and the piano looks great in my home.

Also a relative from in-laws is extremely well to do. Made his fortune in the insurance business. Brought a nice Steinway piano but none of the children play at all. At least when he holds parties for business execs. he hires a professional to play the piano smile
Posted By: QuasiUnaFantasia

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by EPW
...brought an expensive ...

... Brought a nice ...



Unless I'm much mistaken, you mean "bought".
Posted By: Pete14

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 07:40 PM

You are mistaken, Sir.
The acquaintance, who is very well to do, brought the Yamaha from a distant land called Japan.
The relative, extremely well to do, brought a nice Steinway from a trip to Germany.
Posted By: EPW

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 08:04 PM


LOL
Actually the relative might of got the Steinway from overseas. He travels extensively.
Posted By: iLogic

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/20/19 08:29 PM

Fingers crossed this is the answer to all of our hopes and dreams of the NU1/X being the piano it was meant to be without any unintentional shortcomings. Loud note, be gone!

I’m not holding my breath though. The realist and pessimist in me are usually correct.
Posted By: Pete14

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/21/19 12:20 AM

BradleyG, are you there yet? Is the loud note gone?
Posted By: Tyr

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/21/19 09:26 AM

I will install this tonight and test it. The loud note issue occured very occasionally during my plays but i know how to force it.
Posted By: oneilt130

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/21/19 10:09 AM

Quick update I've played my NU1X for about an hour between yesterday and this morning (gotta love those headphones!) and no loud note issue so far though as I have mentioned it didn't occur often for me. I have tried to duplicate it paying two keys next to each other repetitively and using the test CyberGene came up with. So far what I have gotten is a slightly louder note but not the more jarring full volume effect. I can't tell if the slightly louder note is because of the issue or my inability to play rapid notes consistently.

Come on BradleyG and Tyr, I need someone with more experience and ability to test this. smile

On a side note I can't see any other changes this update makes. There was mention of that the Smart Pianist v2.0 app was now supported. I was excited that maybe there was something new there but then I went to update the app and it turns out I was already using v2.x. No new app for me frown
Posted By: CyberGene

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/21/19 11:01 AM

That's promising. Even if the loud note issue is not fully eradicated but only alleviated, that would be already a welcome improvement to an already great instrument smile
Posted By: Tyr

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/21/19 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by oneilt130
There was mention of that the Smart Pianist v2.0 app was now supported. I was excited that maybe there was something new there but then I went to update the app and it turns out I was already using v2.x. No new app for me frown


The description in the google playstore says the app will support newer models on june 2019.
Posted By: Pete14

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/21/19 11:48 AM

“Newer models”?
Posted By: Tyr

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/21/19 11:55 AM

The current android app doesn't support models like NU1X, P-125, P-515, CLP-685 etc. like the iOS version does.
Posted By: Pete14

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/21/19 04:00 PM

Are we to interpret this silence as a negative on the loud note?
Or are the parties involved thoroughly testing all systems before posting their findings here at the world of piano?
Still, I’m cautiously optimistic about this. What if Yamaha has already -subliminally- conditioned us into believing that there is an improvement, yet the truth turns out to be more complicated than that: the loud note has now been substituted for a quiet note!
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/21/19 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by Pete14
Ayet the truth turns out to be more complicated than that: the loud note has now been substituted for a quiet note!

Not that I have an NU1X, but for me, quiet is so much better than loud!
Posted By: Pete14

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/21/19 04:09 PM

I think I’d also prefer a quiet note or perhaps -as with the real thing?- no note at all.
Posted By: iLogic

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/21/19 06:21 PM

Oh... I'll probably get this instead of the 685 if the loud note issue is eradicated (somewhat at least) since I always liked the sound of the NU1/X more than the 685.
Posted By: Pete14

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/21/19 06:45 PM

The NU1X has only 4 speakers compared to 7 on the CLP685. The 685 also has much higher wattage, yet many prefer the former (loud note aside).
Posted By: iLogic

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/21/19 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by Pete14
The NU1X has only 4 speakers compared to 7 on the CLP685. The 685 also has much higher wattage, yet many prefer the former (loud note aside).


The NU1X has 2 40W as compared to CLP685’s 3 30W or something though, right?

Either way, the salesman said the same to me, but I still liked the NU1X more. Sounded more natural.
Posted By: oneilt130

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/21/19 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by iLogic
Originally Posted by Pete14
The NU1X has only 4 speakers compared to 7 on the CLP685. The 685 also has much higher wattage, yet many prefer the former (loud note aside).


The NU1X has 2 40W as compared to CLP685’s 3 30W or something though, right?

Either way, the salesman said the same to me, but I still liked the NU1X more. Sounded more natural.


I faced the same delima, here's a thread I started on this topic. To summarize take the specs with a grain of salt. I felt and still feel the same way you do that the NU1X sounds and plays more like an acoustic.
Posted By: Tyr

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/21/19 07:28 PM

Wattage means nothing. It's the quality of the amp and speakers which make the difference. I can't tell exactly what is different albeit the watts, but the NU1X sounds much richer and balanced than the CLP-685.

I tested the 02.01 Update and can confirm from my plays and tests, that the loud note issue has gone away or the volume level of the specific note has been drastically reduced. I tried it before the update (where it occured two or three times) and after the update.
Posted By: oneilt130

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/21/19 07:37 PM

Another quick update. I decided to take one for the team and play for another half hour at lunch. This time I focused on the rapid repetition parts of Clementi's Sonatina No 1 third movement. This is the most recent piece where this issue has happened. The short answer is that once I had what I would consider a muted loud note occur. This is an area that I can play the repeated notes at a consistent volume and one of the notes was definitely a bit louder than the others. It wasn't the jarring max volume sound that had occurred in the past but it was a bit louder. The issue seems to be happening less often and with less of an increase in volume.

So with my limited testing it appears that they have mitigated the issue but not completely eliminated it. Hopefully BradleyG and Tyr will be reporting in soon. Who knows it may just be the software equivalent of the placebo effect. (Once again curse you CyberGene for abandoning us. smile )
Posted By: oneilt130

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/21/19 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by Tyr
Wattage means nothing. It's the quality of the amp and speakers which make the difference. I can't tell exactly what is different albeit the watts, but the NU1X sounds much richer and balanced than the CLP-685.

I tested the 02.01 Update and can confirm from my plays and tests, that the loud note issue has gone away or the volume level of the specific note has been drastically reduced. I tried it before the update (where it occured two or three times) and after the update.



Thanks for the update.
Posted By: iLogic

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/21/19 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by Tyr
Wattage means nothing. It's the quality of the amp and speakers which make the difference. I can't tell exactly what is different albeit the watts, but the NU1X sounds much richer and balanced than the CLP-685.

I tested the 02.01 Update and can confirm from my plays and tests, that the loud note issue has gone away or the volume level of the specific note has been drastically reduced. I tried it before the update (where it occured two or three times) and after the update.



Oh, such wonderful news. Fantastic.
Posted By: iLogic

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/21/19 07:55 PM

Just asked the retailer that sold me the CA98 for a deal on the NU1X. If the loud note issue in fact is gone more or less, I’m buying the NU1X.
Posted By: CyberGene

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/21/19 08:40 PM

I just thought of another possible heuristics. The fact is: when you push the hammer, it’s heavy and would limit the maximum velocity you can achieve due to inertia. However when the key has not been released fully, hence the jack hasn't reengaged the hammer, key is light and you can easily accelerate it to produce high, or what’s more important: HIGHER terminal velocity, hence the loud note issue. The software would always produce a MIDI value of 127 if the velocity is higher than some value. But actually you can measure what’s a reasonable max velocity with hammer and then introduce a new check for velocities exceeding that. Previously it would produce 127 but now it would see what was the last value for that key and repeat it. Not very consistent but still better than blasting a full 127 strike. There might be another additional check if that event happened shortly after the same key has been released because that’s when loud note issue happens: on repetition, never on first strike.

There’s a lot of statistical analysis that could be done by Yamaha to determine when the issue happens and then go to use that data to predict it and alleviate it. It’s only odd that they introduced it after so much time.
Posted By: oneilt130

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/21/19 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by CyberGene
I just thought of another possible heuristics. The fact is: when you push the hammer, it’s heavy and would limit the maximum velocity you can achieve due to inertia. However when the key has not been released fully, hence the jack hasn't reengaged the hammer, key is light and you can easily accelerate it to produce high, or what’s more important: HIGHER terminal velocity, hence the loud note issue. The software would always produce a MIDI value of 127 if the velocity is higher than some value. But actually you can measure what’s a reasonable max velocity with hammer and then introduce a new check for velocities exceeding that. Previously it would produce 127 but now it would see what was the last value for that key and repeat it. Not very consistent but still better than blasting a full 127 strike. There might be another additional check if that event happened shortly after the same key has been released because that’s when loud note issue happens: on repetition, never on first strike.

There’s a lot of statistical analysis that could be done by Yamaha to determine when the issue happens and then go to use that data to predict it and alleviate it. It’s only odd that they introduced it after so much time.


My guess is that it took Yamaha some time to decide to fix it then they needed to schedule the resources to the project. Who knows, they team that wrote this update could have been busy working on the N1X before this or some other project. Also while I understand the logic behind dampening sensor input it's a long way from mitigating something like a flow meter to how you handle the sound from a DP. I could see something like this taking awhile to work out and then test the heck out of it.

Regardless the result is very good. It's in the early testing stages but so far I would consider the issue resolved. It seems to happen with much less frequency and when it does it's a more subtle increase in volume, not the full on max volume that it was doing.

Now if they could just add that brightness setting that the N1X folk have been talking about.
Posted By: oneilt130

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/21/19 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by Chantel
Greetings members.
I’m new to the forum and was wondering if anyone has done the latest software update as of April 2019 for the Yamaha Nu1x. It’s says on Yamaha software update page that the V2:10 update improves playability. I’m thinking seriously about purchasing the piano but am aware of the “loud note” issue, I’m just wondering if this update fixes or improves the situation?
I’m actually looking at both the Yamaha clp685 and the Nu1x. Both seem to have advantages and disadvantages. I did actually prefer the speaker sound of the 685 but the action of the Nu1x felt better to me. The 685 was not bad though just different.
I should say I’m not a great pianist. I’m a adult learner and just love playing and find it very meditative. I just sold a KAWAk200 which I really enjoyed and was more than enough piano for me, its just that I’m moving into a condo and really need a digital for practice at all hours and keep everyone happy.
I think if someone has done the software update and can confirm the loud note issue has improved I will probable get the Nu1x.
I think I could be happy with the 645 to though it sounded great.
Thank for your time and comments.
Chantel .


Shout out to Chantel for starting this thread. I never would have checked for the update if I hadn't seen this post. The loud note issue was never a big deal for me but it is still nice to have it taken care of.
Posted By: Gombessa

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/21/19 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by CyberGene
I just thought of another possible heuristics. The fact is: when you push the hammer, it’s heavy and would limit the maximum velocity you can achieve due to inertia. However when the key has not been released fully, hence the jack hasn't reengaged the hammer, key is light and you can easily accelerate it to produce high, or what’s more important: HIGHER terminal velocity, hence the loud note issue. The software would always produce a MIDI value of 127 if the velocity is higher than some value. But actually you can measure what’s a reasonable max velocity with hammer and then introduce a new check for velocities exceeding that. Previously it would produce 127 but now it would see what was the last value for that key and repeat it. Not very consistent but still better than blasting a full 127 strike. There might be another additional check if that event happened shortly after the same key has been released because that’s when loud note issue happens: on repetition, never on first strike.

There’s a lot of statistical analysis that could be done by Yamaha to determine when the issue happens and then go to use that data to predict it and alleviate it. It’s only odd that they introduced it after so much time.


I wonder what the latency cost is of introducing these types of fixes. IIRC all of these DPs go to great lengths (e.g., high-speed ASICs) to dramatically reduce the time it takes from sensing to sounding. A new check may not be all that computationally intensive, but a bunch of new if/then conditions (Did a note strike with a certain velocity? Did it strike with a lower velocity x ms earlier? Etc.) may start pushing the design specs? I doubt it would break anything in this case, but I would imagine any maker would be very careful about introducing changes that affect the perception of real-time response (particularly if it also reduces headroom for other changes/features that may need to be added in the future). That could be why Yamaha sat on this for years without quickly pushing out a fix (or fixing the issue in the NU1X).
Posted By: Pete14

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/21/19 10:18 PM

Layman walking: could any further tweaking/regulation of the action help with the issue? Of course, this would be implemented on units leaving the factory now. Existing owners could probably get the ‘regulation’ per request.
Right now it seems like we’re split as to whether the issue was completely eradicated or simply masked/diminished. At least one member believes that it’s still there but not as ‘loud/often’ as before.
Posted By: Chantel

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/21/19 10:38 PM

Oh no thank you so much.
I actually found out about the issue through this forum in the first place. Then when I was looking in showroom I asked the sales person and he said the new software update fixes that. Came home saw the update ion Yamaha site then I joined this site to ask you guys.
I was curious that no one noticed the update but I guess it’s not usual for piano makers to do updates. I am use to it with camera manufacturers.
Thank you so much for testing this and helping me make a decision. It’s been a great help.
I think what I’m hearing is if the Nu1x came with the current update loaded the piano would have been way better received and consider to be an excellent option as a k200 replacement?
Thank you so much oneilt130!
I am still waiting for the other testers before I bite.
Posted By: Chantel

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/21/19 11:38 PM

I just read your thread. Its so great you were going through same process as me. I will be back a the dealer soon and compared 685 and nu1x again. But I keep hearing g Nu1x is the better choice. For sure I prefer the way it feels.
I’m curious Oneilt. Did you try the Kawai CA98 or cs11. They get such good reviews but they just felt like a fake action to me. In their defence I think Im just use to an upright action.
I’m also just wondering how much our brains perceive feel into sound. That is if we sit at a dp that feels way better or like a real piano that we include that into how the piano sounds. It all works together to create a whole. If we sit at an action that is not as good or does not feel as good but is in a better sounding cabinet then we don’t like it. The human brain is easily tricked.
Perception is everything. That’s why at the end of the day we go with the heart. Knowing I’m spending a lot for a piano that is not defective means a lot to me though. So thank so much for doing the tests. Wow that’s great.
Also anyone out there have any long term reports of living with durability of Nu1x or even the previous Nu1. Does it have to be regulated after a while like an acoustic. Sorry if that’s a dumb question.
It’s all just new to me.
Thank you everyone.
Posted By: oneilt130

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 12:05 AM

Originally Posted by Chantel
I just read your thread. It so great you were going through same process as me. I will be back a the dealer soon ams compared 685 ams nu1x again. But I keep hearing g Nu1x is the better choice. For sure I prefer the way it feels.
I’m curious Oneilt. Did you try the Kawai CA98 or cs11. They get such good reviews but they just felt like a fake action to me. In their defence I think Im just use to an upright action.
I’m also just wondering how much our brains perceive feel into sound. That is if we sit at a dp that feels way better or like a real piano that we include that into how the piano sounds. It all works together to create a whole. If we sit at an action that is not as good or does not feel as good but is in a better sounding cabinet then we don’t like it. The human brain is easily tricked.
Perception is everything. That’s why at the end of the day we go with the heart. Knowing I’m spending a lot for a piano that is not defective means a lot to me though. So thank so much for do8 g the tests. Wow that’s great.
Also anyone out there any long term reports of living with durability of Nu1x or even the previous Nu1. Does it have to be regulated after a while like an acoustic. Sorry if that’s a dumb question.
It’s all just new to me.
Thank you everyone.


I tried the CA78/98 and there was just something about the sound that I didn't care for. It wasn't bad and it could be related to my having tinnitus but it just didn't sound as good. If you hang out here long enough you will see the endless debates on what tech or DP sounds better or worse. I think they have the same "discussions" in the acoustic piano forum as well. You need to get what sounds best to you. Also I didn't care for the touch screen interface. I am probably one of the only people here who will praise the simplicity of the NU1X interface. I play it pretty much with the defaults and use the Smart Pianist app for any adjustments and recordings so I like that the controls don't get in the way.

BTW I also tested the Roland LX708 and checked into the MPSE11 and other slab options thinking of building the Franken DP. When I first started looking I went to a Yamaha dealer outside of Philly to check out the CLP685. The dealer let me play it by myself and after 5 minutes I wasn't thrilled. When I was getting ready to walk out the sales person asked what I thought and I told him. He then directed me to the NU1X. I liked it a lot and was able to jump between that and the acoustic U1. The NU1X felt very close to an acoustic upright and sounded great on pianos. But based on the specs I spent probably the better part of 6 months trying to convince myself not to get the NU1X even though every time I tried it out it was the one that made me the happiest.

In the end I bought the NU1X knowing fully informed about the loud note issue and never regretted the choice I made. It is a joy to play.
Posted By: Chantel

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 12:36 AM

Thank you. That inspires so much confidence in me choosing the Nu1x. For your interest when I was at the dealer another sales person who did not know what I was looking at, and I agreed with him 100%, said the Nu1x Rhodes sound sounded the best through the Nu1x Than other dp in their store. I heard it rightaway when I played it. I get most folks here play piano so wonderfully they probable don’t play the Rhodes sound but I do and it was clearly better on the Nu1x. I will look into the Smart pianist app as I don’t know anything about it. I do like simplicity and am aware of the bells and whistles trap. 98% of the 685 features I would not use. Splitting a keyboard has it’s appeal to me but certainly not of the expenses of a proper feeling action.
When you have the time what features in the smart pianist app improve the Nu1x. Is it mostly for recordings?
Thank you so much again. You have been a great help!
Posted By: oneilt130

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 01:14 AM

Originally Posted by Chantel
Thank you. That inspires so much confidence in me choosing the Nu1x. For your interest when I was at the dealer another sales person who did not know what I was looking at, and I agreed with him 100%, said the Nu1x Rhodes sound sounded the best through the Nu1x Than other dp in their store. I heard it rightaway when I played it. I get most folks here play piano so wonderfully they probable don’t play the Rhodes sound but I do and it was clearly better on the Nu1x. I will look into the Smart pianist app as I don’t know anything about it. I do like simplicity and am aware of the bells and whistles trap. 98% of the 685 features I would not use. Splitting a keyboard has it’s appeal to me but certainly not of the expenses of a proper feeling action.
When you have the time what features in the smart pianist app improve the Nu1x. Is it mostly for recordings?
Thank you so much again. You have been a great help!


I primarily use the Smart Pianist app for recordings and the metronome. (I really like the bell sound that it uses for measures. Can't find an app that does it yet.) On occasion I use it to play with some of the sounds but not that much. Even for recordings if I just want to play back something to critique it myself I use the controls on the NU1X. One button starts recording what you are playing. Great for quick feedback. I use the app when I want to do something else with the recording. You can upload to drop box right in the app. I find that easier than using a thumb drive to transfer files to the computer.
Posted By: Chantel

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 01:29 AM

Thank you!
I’m glad we all found out about the software update.
Piano world is a great site and you have been so kind and helpful.
Posted By: iLogic

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 08:23 AM

The white one is out of stock everywhere here frown
Posted By: Tyr

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by Chantel
That inspires so much confidence in me choosing the Nu1x.


NU1X is love, NU1X is life! Get it and be happy. I've never regretted my decision after my trip over several highend DPs. wink
Posted By: pathguy

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 08:51 AM

I will install the software shortly and report back. I typically have heard the "loud note" issue at least once or twice during my playing: let's see if it works!
Posted By: pathguy

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 09:32 AM

Ok so, admittedly I haven't played as long as I usually do, but despite all of my attempts to re-create the "loud note" issue, I just could NOT! thumb

I'm hoping this is the fix we've all been waiting for. I have to get ready for work (and then my lesson this evening), so I will have to use it a bit more to really see. Stay tuned!
Posted By: Pete14

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 11:32 AM

Let’s assume that the issue is gone. Initially Yamaha denies it and claims the instrument is supposed to behave that way; nothing was done for the NU1 and now, many years later, they ‘fix’ what was -according to them- not broken.
Do we believe that the problem was so complex to correct that Yamaha opted to quietly attempt a fix whilst publicly denying the problem?
The goal: if we can’t fix it, we never talk about it and the ‘loudness’ prevails; if we fix it, we quietly implement the fix for the piano that was never ‘broken’ in the first place, and we simply call the upgrade an ‘improvement in playability’.
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Pete14
Let’s assume that the issue is gone. Initially Yamaha denies it and claims the instrument is supposed to behave that way; nothing was done for the NU1 and now, many years later, they ‘fix’ what was -according to them- not broken.
Do we believe that the problem was so complex to correct that Yamaha opted to quietly attempt a fix whilst publicly denying the problem?
The goal: if we can’t fix it, we never talk about it and the ‘loudness’ prevails; if we fix it, we quietly implement the fix for the piano that was never ‘broken’ in the first place, and we simply call the upgrade an ‘improvement in playability’.

I feel your annoyance! But let's think of it this way. Acoustical upright actions don't allow key repetition at a frequency higher than 7 Hz apparently due to mechanical limitations. So one manufacturer added magnets to the action and another added springs, both intended to allow faster key repetition. Were these manufacturers fixing something that was broken? Or did they make an "improvement in playability?"
Posted By: QuasiUnaFantasia

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 11:42 AM

If they fixed it with an algorithm, they probably used machine learning to get there, and this may be so far out of their regular ways that it took them years to realize that they needed to go down that path.

But of course they can't have it both ways, so in the past having denied there being a problem, they can't really announce now the new functionality with a great fanfare.
Posted By: oneilt130

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
If they fixed it with an algorithm, they probably used machine learning to get there, and this may be so far out of their regular ways that it took them years to realize that they needed to go down that path.

But of course they can't have it both ways, so in the past having denied there being a problem, they can't really announce now the new functionality with a great fanfare.


Originally Posted by Pete14
Let’s assume that the issue is gone. Initially Yamaha denies it and claims the instrument is supposed to behave that way; nothing was done for the NU1 and now, many years later, they ‘fix’ what was -according to them- not broken.
Do we believe that the problem was so complex to correct that Yamaha opted to quietly attempt a fix whilst publicly denying the problem?
The goal: if we can’t fix it, we never talk about it and the ‘loudness’ prevails; if we fix it, we quietly implement the fix for the piano that was never ‘broken’ in the first place, and we simply call the upgrade an ‘improvement in playability’.

Call my cynical but I am not that concerned with the why Yamaha come out with the fix now or what their statements were in the past. I view most corporations as amoral sharks working in what they perceive to be their short term or long term best interests. I may not agree with their perceptions or directions but I don't think they expend resources on things like updates for virtuous reasons. I think Yamaha thought that the cost of the firmware update would be more than offset by an increase in sales or reduction in returns/service calls. Nothing more and nothing less. If they couldn't attach some perceived return on investment to the fix they probably wouldn't have done it.

All I care about is that they have taken a DP that I really liked and made it even better. (And it does reduce my N1X envy a little bit. smile )

So now that this issue that has it's own somewhat long thread appears to be resolved I think it's time to start a NU1X love fest thread like the N1X thread. The first topic should be the pros and cons of different waxes and polishing compounds. We need to let others know that we are just as obsessed with the gloss of our pianos as they are. smile
Posted By: iLogic

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by oneilt130
Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
If they fixed it with an algorithm, they probably used machine learning to get there, and this may be so far out of their regular ways that it took them years to realize that they needed to go down that path.

But of course they can't have it both ways, so in the past having denied there being a problem, they can't really announce now the new functionality with a great fanfare.


Originally Posted by Pete14
Let’s assume that the issue is gone. Initially Yamaha denies it and claims the instrument is supposed to behave that way; nothing was done for the NU1 and now, many years later, they ‘fix’ what was -according to them- not broken.
Do we believe that the problem was so complex to correct that Yamaha opted to quietly attempt a fix whilst publicly denying the problem?
The goal: if we can’t fix it, we never talk about it and the ‘loudness’ prevails; if we fix it, we quietly implement the fix for the piano that was never ‘broken’ in the first place, and we simply call the upgrade an ‘improvement in playability’.

Call my cynical but I am not that concerned with the why Yamaha come out with the fix now or what their statements were in the past. I view most corporations as amoral sharks working in what they perceive to be their short term or long term best interests. I may not agree with their perceptions or directions but I don't think they expend resources on things like updates for virtuous reasons. I think Yamaha thought that the cost of the firmware update would be more than offset by an increase in sales or reduction in returns/service calls. Nothing more and nothing less. If they couldn't attach some perceived return on investment to the fix they probably wouldn't have done it.

All I care about is that they have taken a DP that I really liked and made it even better. (And it does reduce my N1X envy a little bit. smile )

So now that this issue that has it's own somewhat long thread appears to be resolved I think it's time to start a NU1X love fest thread like the N1X thread. The first topic should be the pros and cons of different waxes and polishing compounds. We need to let others know that we are just as obsessed with the gloss of our pianos as they are. smile


Hahahaha marvelous last part
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by oneilt130
The first topic should be the pros and cons of different waxes and polishing compounds. We need to let others know that we are just as obsessed with the gloss of our pianos as they are. smile

And the electrostatic/anti-static properties of the plastics comprising them! wink
Posted By: BradleyG

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 03:25 PM

I’ve applied the patch, and so far it seems to be an improvement. I was playing a passage where I could physically feel the keys in a no-resistance state, and the result was not an out of character loud note. I have tried anything rigorous, just playing as usual.

What’s most surprising to me is that, despite having my instrument registrations made online with my email address, and despite my signing up for various mailing lists for any announcements by Yamaha, there was no proactive messaging around this. Had I not been participating in this forum, I doubt I’d have discovered the update for another 6 months.

All of that said, an instrument I already loved got better!
Posted By: CyberGene

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 04:07 PM

Indeed, that came as a surprise, first of all because Yamaha release new firmware updates once a century, and then because that wasn't communicated in any possible way. It's a shame an important update like that is currently discussed only here. I actually checked whether there's an update for N1X too because, you know... why not smile Maybe it's not just the loud note issue but a better interpretation of key sensors? Reminds me why I have ignored Yamaha for such a long time smile
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by CyberGene
Indeed, that came as a surprise, first of all because Yamaha release new firmware updates once a century, and then because that wasn't communicated in any possible way. It's a shame an important update like that is currently discussed only here. I actually checked whether there's an update for N1X too because, you know... why not smile Maybe it's not just the loud note issue but a better interpretation of key sensors? Reminds me why I have ignored Yamaha for such a long time smile

Sounds like we will only know of N1X updates in the future because one of us on the forum checks or is told to check. confused

BTW, this is not only an issue of Yamaha not telling their customers. They don't tell their dealers either. For example, my Yamaha dealer where I bought my N1X (due in two days! thumb ) does a brisk business for Yamaha. They even have a Yamaha-certified technician. Yet their N3X floor model has the broken version of the TRS system and I had to be the to tell them that there is a service update to fix this. So Yamaha keeps their dealers in the dark too.
Posted By: CyberGene

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 04:23 PM

Could this be linked to the well-known cultural characteristic of Japanese people to avoid admitting mistakes? Reminds me of the NV10 thread too and the buzzing issue. But admittedly Kawai are light years ahead in admitting mistakes and preparing firmware updates smile
Posted By: BradleyG

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
If they fixed it with an algorithm, they probably used machine learning to get there, and this may be so far out of their regular ways that it took them years to realize that they needed to go down that path.

But of course they can't have it both ways, so in the past having denied there being a problem, they can't really announce now the new functionality with a great fanfare.


I'm a bit skeptical that they'd introduce machine learning if they weren't already using it for other things on this device. I bet the instrument is pretty constrained on CPU, memory, and storage.

It occurs to me, we missed an opportunity as a forum. Those of us with NU1Xs could have created a library of midi files with loud notes. Not just trills or repeats, but especially where they were present in the playing of actual compositions. We could have then reasonably easily labelled the bad notes and had a terrific training set to experiment with our own algorithms, even if it wasn't going to be possible to patch them to the instrument itself. Would have been fun. But hey, Yamaha did the job, so hey!

I suppose one way we may know what Yamaha did here is to watch their patent filings. Which brings up another possibility- perhaps the reason it took so long for a patch was because they did indeed have some IP filings to square away first.
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by BradleyG
I'm a bit skeptical that they'd introduce machine learning if they weren't already using it for other things on this device. I bet the instrument is pretty constrained on CPU, memory, and storage.

I believe QuasiUnaFantasia didn't mean that they are now running a machine learning algorithm on the DP, but only that the algorithm likely was developed using machine learning. This sort of thing is done all the time, and the resulting algorithms are often used on slow embedded controllers.
Posted By: Chantel

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 05:01 PM

Could anyone tell me if Im purchasing a new Nu1x when I could reasonable expect the piano to be already loaded with the v2.10 software. Not sure I can rely on a dealer knowing this information. Just wondering if recent purchasers of Nu1x had the 2.00 software update loaded on or did everyone have to do that update themselves ? Does it list in the manual or in the piano menus what software is loaded on the piano? Could I expect the dealer to do the update for me or is it really easy?
Thanks again.
Posted By: CyberGene

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 05:10 PM

It’s so easy to update smile Don’t worry.
Posted By: BradleyG

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by Chantel
Just wondering if recent purchasers of Nu1x had the 2.00 software update loaded on or did everyone have to do that update themselves ? Does it list in the manual or in the piano menus what software is loaded on the piano? Could I expect the dealer to do the update for me or is it really easy?
Thanks again.


Mine had 2.00 when it arrived. I recall seeing a manufacture date somewhere in my paperwork. I can check that when I get home and see how it compares to the publication of the 2.00 update (if the update is still available online).

My instrument was delivered to me boxed and bound, so I'm pretty sure my dealer did not do the update. The update was pretty easy, but there may be some gotchas if you are using a Mac.
Posted By: QuasiUnaFantasia

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by BradleyG
I'm a bit skeptical that they'd introduce machine learning if they weren't already using it for other things on this device. I bet the instrument is pretty constrained on CPU, memory, and storage.

I believe QuasiUnaFantasia didn't mean that they are now running a machine learning algorithm on the DP, but only that the algorithm likely was developed using machine learning. This sort of thing is done all the time, and the resulting algorithms are often used on slow embedded controllers.


Precisely! If properly constructed the model could probably be contained in a few hundred bytes (or even less), and the execution of it would be very fast and undemanding in terms of RAM.
Posted By: Chantel

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 05:50 PM

Thank you!
Posted By: Chantel

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 05:54 PM

Thank you. I do have Mac. 😢😱. I can always get someone e with a pc to do the download to a stick. Am I right in thinking after download is on stick I just turn piano on after inserted or insert stick after piano is turned on? Sorry I’m useless with tec. It’s embarrassing.😟
Posted By: oneilt130

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by Chantel
Thank you. I do have Mac. 😢😱. I can always get someone e with a pc to do the download to a stick. Am I right in thinking after download is on stick I just turn piano on after inserted or insert stick after piano is turned on? Sorry I’m useless with tec. It’s embarrassing.😟


There are instructions complete with pictures when you download the update. Basically you turn off the DP. Insert the flash drive into the USB port, turn it on holding down the Play/Pause key and follow the instructions. The whole thing takes less than 5 minutes.

BTW if you are getting the NU1X and want to use the Smart Pianist app you will need to get the WiFi adapter for it. It has an absurd US price of $150 but you should be able to negotiate that down quite a bit or get it thrown in for "free" when you purchase the piano.
Posted By: iLogic

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 06:28 PM

Seriously, why is the white version out of stock everywhere? I have 11 different retailers on my list, one of them being Thomann, and none have the white version in stock. What’s up with that...
Posted By: Tyr

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 06:30 PM

Mine came also with version 2.0, so chances are high a new bought instrument is updated with the newest version.

A manual update is done less than 2 minutes and easy to do (and thank you Yamaha for not stealing me 2 hours of playtime like Kawai ;))

@ iLogic: Where are you from?
Posted By: Chantel

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 06:37 PM

Very helpful thanks again
Posted By: Chantel

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 06:38 PM

Thank you for letting me know this.
Posted By: iLogic

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by Tyr
Mine came also with version 2.0, so chances are high a new bought instrument is updated with the newest version.

A manual update is done less than 2 minutes and easy to do (and thank you Yamaha for not stealing me 2 hours of playtime like Kawai ;))

@ iLogic: Where are you from?


Sweden
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by oneilt130
BTW if you are getting the NU1X and want to use the Smart Pianist app you will need to get the WiFi adapter for it. It has an absurd US price of $150 but you should be able to negotiate that down quite a bit or get it thrown in for "free" when you purchase the piano.

In the case of the Yamaha N1X that I just bought, I did get the dealer to "throw it in for free" (I put quotes around this, since of course, the dealer made enough money to cover the dealer-cost of the adapter, so "free" is not really free to me).
Posted By: Chantel

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 08:04 PM

Canada
Posted By: Tyr

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by iLogic
Seriously, why is the white version out of stock everywhere? I have 11 different retailers on my list, one of them being Thomann, and none have the white version in stock. What’s up with that...


The white version is available on kirstein.de and a rather cheap delivery option for sweden available.

https://www.kirstein.de/en/Digital-Pianos/Yamaha-NU1XPBW-Hybrid-Piano-Weiss-Hochglanz.html
Posted By: oneilt130

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by Tyr
Originally Posted by iLogic
Seriously, why is the white version out of stock everywhere? I have 11 different retailers on my list, one of them being Thomann, and none have the white version in stock. What’s up with that...


The white version is available on kirstein.de and a rather cheap delivery option for sweden available.

https://www.kirstein.de/en/Digital-Pianos/Yamaha-NU1XPBW-Hybrid-Piano-Weiss-Hochglanz.html


Does anyone have any thoughts on why the white version is so much more than the black?
Posted By: Pete14

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 09:20 PM

Did we come to a conclusion: eradicated, improved, masked, not enough data, more testing required, etc...?
Posted By: Tyr

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/22/19 09:59 PM

As far as i can tell: eradicated.

Originally Posted by oneilt130
ch more than the black?


It depends on the store. Traditionally the white version is always a bit more expensive. On musicstore.de the white version costs 4555 € and the ebony version 4390 €. My local dealer holds a white version for 4595 €, the black one is also at 4390 €.
Posted By: newer player

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 12:52 AM

Originally Posted by iLogic
Originally Posted by Tyr
@ iLogic: Where are you from?


Sweden

Sweden is a fantastic country!
Posted By: oneilt130

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 01:40 AM

Originally Posted by Pete14
Did we come to a conclusion: eradicated, improved, masked, not enough data, more testing required, etc...?


It's been 3 days a few hours of playing I'm calling it eradicated. What's amazing is that there appears to be no compromise on anything else. However they did it they removed the loud note issue with surgical precision.
Posted By: Pete14

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 02:35 AM

This is great. I wonder if Yamaha will update the user manual and edit out the part where it talks about the loud note issue and that ‘this is normal’.
Posted By: ando

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 04:34 AM

Originally Posted by Pete14
This is great. I wonder if Yamaha will update the user manual and edit out the part where it talks about the loud note issue and that ‘this is normal’.

They would have to edit it out - otherwise if your piano doesn't do it, there's something wrong! wink
Posted By: CyberGene

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 05:45 AM

Have you tried to reproduce the issue in the way I demonstrated in my video: press a key and then release it slightly below top position, hold it there and then press again. You should be able to feel the key is very light (not pushing the hammer) which allows for you to accelerate it to very high velocities, i.e. loud notes. You need to experiment a little to learn where that position is. If you feel the hammer, you’ve released it too high. If you haven’t released it enough the system knows the key is still slightly pressed and won’t be fooled which was there even before the fix. So you need to find a narrow window where the system thinks the key is released but at the same time it’s not and the hammer is not engaged.
Posted By: iLogic

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by Tyr
As far as i can tell: eradicated.

Originally Posted by oneilt130
ch more than the black?


It depends on the store. Traditionally the white version is always a bit more expensive. On musicstore.de the white version costs 4555 € and the ebony version 4390 €. My local dealer holds a white version for 4595 €, the black one is also at 4390 €.


Thanks for the link but the white version was rather pricey there, over 5000€. I’ve contacted a few retailers and asked for when they have them back in stock, but one already replied something in line with “God only knows when Yamaha supplies it again”
Posted By: johnstaf

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 07:30 AM

Maybe white is harder to sell. When I bought my DP, the price was dropped on sale at Thomann, but white had its price reduced a couple of weeks earlier. Maybe they'd just ordered to many though...
Posted By: Tyr

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by CyberGene
Have you tried to reproduce the issue in the way I demonstrated in my video: press a key and then release it slightly below top position, hold it there and then press again. You should be able to feel the key is very light (not pushing the hammer) which allows for you to accelerate it to very high velocities, i.e. loud notes. You need to experiment a little to learn where that position is. If you feel the hammer, you’ve released it too high. If you haven’t released it enough the system knows the key is still slightly pressed and won’t be fooled which was there even before the fix. So you need to find a narrow window where the system thinks the key is released but at the same time it’s not and the hammer is not engaged.


I tried your method on several keys for around 20 minutes with no success. It's the same method i used before the update where a sudden lout note appeared 2 - 3 times. smile
Posted By: QuasiUnaFantasia

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by iLogic
Originally Posted by Tyr
As far as i can tell: eradicated.

Originally Posted by oneilt130
ch more than the black?


It depends on the store. Traditionally the white version is always a bit more expensive. On musicstore.de the white version costs 4555 € and the ebony version 4390 €. My local dealer holds a white version for 4595 €, the black one is also at 4390 €.


Thanks for the link but the white version was rather pricey there, over 5000€. I’ve contacted a few retailers and asked for when they have them back in stock, but one already replied something in line with “God only knows when Yamaha supplies it again”


In Denmark, www.digitalpiano.dk claim that expected delivery is 2-3 days longer (but they don't directly say what they compare it to!) However the white version is 13% more expensive than the black version.

EDIT: Kirstein in Germany have it in stock (expensively):

https://www.kirstein.de/Digitalpian...z.html?userInput=nu1x&ignoreForCache[]=userInput&queryFromSuggest=true&ignoreForCache[]=queryFromSuggest
Posted By: tudor33sud

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 09:00 AM

Does anyone know if we could hope getting a Yamaha NU3-X with a full upright cabinet? I'm in love with my Roland LX708, and I was thinking that as an amateur, I might like to settle on an upright action for many years to come, but I don't want to spare brilliant sound. I'm currently used with Roland's setup of 8 speakers and with some nice woofers, so does anyone know some updates about Yamaha releasing something like that?

Sorry if I am offtopic!
Posted By: Tyr

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 09:07 AM

I don't know what your question is, but the NU1X Speaker System is one of the best on the market.
Posted By: tudor33sud

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by Tyr
I don't know what your question is, but the NU1X Speaker System is one of the best on the market.

I am mostly thinking if NU1-X will have any better version as N3 is to N1 ( for which the most relevant change is the speaker system ) . I would like an upright action, but with a powerul multichannel speaker setup. As far as I've read, NU1-X has 2 45W speakers. In a bigger cabinet, they could place more, and have the sound being more immersive for the player and fill the room up better.
Posted By: Tyr

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 09:18 AM

I would suggest try it by yourself. The NU1X has a total 180W speaker setup:

Amplifiers: (45 W + 45 W) x 2
Speakers: (16 cm + 1.9 cm) x 2
Posted By: tudor33sud

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by Tyr
I would suggest try it by yourself. The NU1X has a total 180W speaker setup:

Amplifiers: (45 W + 45 W) x 2
Speakers: (16 cm + 1.9 cm) x 2

I will try to search for one out of curiosity, but I tested the Yamaha CLP 685 and I wasn't that impressed about how the sound was projecting, so I doubt the NU1-X will be better.

I'm looking for a sophisticated setup similar to what Roland is currently offering, so that you get the impression you are enveloped by sound(I think Yamaha N2 was in the same boat). Taken from Roland's speakers specs page:

Cabinet Speakers: 25 cm (9-7/8 inches) x 2 (with Speaker Box)
Near-field Speakers: (12 cm (4-3/4 inches) x 8 cm (3-3/16 inches)) x 2 (with Speaker Box)
Spatial Speakers: (12 cm (4-3/4 inches) x 8 cm (3-3/16 inches)) x 2
Spatial Speakers: 2.5 cm (1 inches) x 2 (Dome type)
Posted By: CyberGene

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by Tyr
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Have you tried to reproduce the issue in the way I demonstrated in my video: press a key and then release it slightly below top position, hold it there and then press again. You should be able to feel the key is very light (not pushing the hammer) which allows for you to accelerate it to very high velocities, i.e. loud notes. You need to experiment a little to learn where that position is. If you feel the hammer, you’ve released it too high. If you haven’t released it enough the system knows the key is still slightly pressed and won’t be fooled which was there even before the fix. So you need to find a narrow window where the system thinks the key is released but at the same time it’s not and the hammer is not engaged.


I tried your method on several keys for around 20 minutes with no success. It's the same method i used before the update where a sudden lout note appeared 2 - 3 times. smile

That's promising. I think we need some time for people to confirm it has been fixed and I will start recommending NU1X to people again because IMO it's the best hybrid for the money right now smile
Posted By: Tyr

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by tudor33sud
[quote=Tyr]I will try to search for one out of curiosity, but I tested the Yamaha CLP 685 and I wasn't that impressed about how the sound was projecting, so I doubt the NU1-X will be better.


Trust me, the NU1X sounds nowhere near as the CLP-685.

As i said, you should try it on yourself. smile
Posted By: oneilt130

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by Tyr
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Have you tried to reproduce the issue in the way I demonstrated in my video: press a key and then release it slightly below top position, hold it there and then press again. You should be able to feel the key is very light (not pushing the hammer) which allows for you to accelerate it to very high velocities, i.e. loud notes. You need to experiment a little to learn where that position is. If you feel the hammer, you’ve released it too high. If you haven’t released it enough the system knows the key is still slightly pressed and won’t be fooled which was there even before the fix. So you need to find a narrow window where the system thinks the key is released but at the same time it’s not and the hammer is not engaged.


I tried your method on several keys for around 20 minutes with no success. It's the same method i used before the update where a sudden lout note appeared 2 - 3 times. smile

That's promising. I think we need some time for people to confirm it has been fixed and I will start recommending NU1X to people again because IMO it's the best hybrid for the money right now smile


I just spent another 10 minutes trying to recreate it using that method and was unable to. The only thing I get is once or twice there was a slightly louder note but I think that was more my playing and that I was actively looking for something. When I am not trying to recreate it and just playing normally I don't notice anything. Usually I would get it at least once or twice during a practice session.
Posted By: oneilt130

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by tudor33sud


I will try to search for one out of curiosity, but I tested the Yamaha CLP 685 and I wasn't that impressed about how the sound was projecting, so I doubt the NU1-X will be better.

I'm looking for a sophisticated setup similar to what Roland is currently offering, so that you get the impression you are enveloped by sound(I think Yamaha N2 was in the same boat). Taken from Roland's speakers specs page:

Cabinet Speakers: 25 cm (9-7/8 inches) x 2 (with Speaker Box)
Near-field Speakers: (12 cm (4-3/4 inches) x 8 cm (3-3/16 inches)) x 2 (with Speaker Box)
Spatial Speakers: (12 cm (4-3/4 inches) x 8 cm (3-3/16 inches)) x 2
Spatial Speakers: 2.5 cm (1 inches) x 2 (Dome type)


Don't fall into the spec trap. Here is a link to a thread I started on that topic regarding the NU1X and others that you are looking at. You really need to try it out for yourself and see what you think. From my perspective the NU1X was the most immersive experience.
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by tudor33sud
Does anyone know if we could hope getting a Yamaha NU3-X with a full upright cabinet? I'm in love with my Roland LX708, and I was thinking that as an amateur, I might like to settle on an upright action for many years to come, but I don't want to spare brilliant sound. I'm currently used with Roland's setup of 8 speakers and with some nice woofers, so does anyone know some updates about Yamaha releasing something like that?

Sorry if I am offtopic!

You realize that the LX708 has a simulated grand piano action and not an upright action?
Posted By: tudor33sud

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by oneilt130
Originally Posted by tudor33sud


I will try to search for one out of curiosity, but I tested the Yamaha CLP 685 and I wasn't that impressed about how the sound was projecting, so I doubt the NU1-X will be better.

I'm looking for a sophisticated setup similar to what Roland is currently offering, so that you get the impression you are enveloped by sound(I think Yamaha N2 was in the same boat). Taken from Roland's speakers specs page:

Cabinet Speakers: 25 cm (9-7/8 inches) x 2 (with Speaker Box)
Near-field Speakers: (12 cm (4-3/4 inches) x 8 cm (3-3/16 inches)) x 2 (with Speaker Box)
Spatial Speakers: (12 cm (4-3/4 inches) x 8 cm (3-3/16 inches)) x 2
Spatial Speakers: 2.5 cm (1 inches) x 2 (Dome type)


Don't fall into the spec trap. Here is a link to a thread I started on that topic regarding the NU1X and others that you are looking at. You really need to try it out for yourself and see what you think. From my perspective the NU1X was the most immersive experience.

Thanks for pointing me to the thread. I hope I will be able to find one NU1X close, and if I will get the chance to play one, I will try to summarize what I felt smile
Posted By: U3piano

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 11:05 AM

Amazing news!! Now i have something to think about. I initially wanted a nu1x, but i won't spend such an amount of money on any piano with a flaw like that. So instead i bought a nice used U3, and while i love it more and more everyday as i get better at playing it, i still can't play it enough because of neighbours.

The Nu1x is now an option again. It's nice, still not as nice as an acoustic, and i would not like to trade in my U3 if it wasn't for my neighbour problem, but being able to always play it is so important that i might consider it.

So, only the Nu1x gets the update? No love for the older Nu1? That would suck for Nu1 owners.
Posted By: Pete14

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 11:20 AM

It would be good for you to test the NU1X thoroughly at the dealer.
Some members have indicated that it has been completely eradicated -and we all want that to be the case- but this is still a preliminary state. Once the instrument has been played for days (not just hours) by different people with different musical backgrounds we’ll have a more ‘conclusive’ report.
For example, one member indicated that the issue was not as prominent/frequent but to some extent the issue was still there.
Fingers crossed, it’s gone for good.
Posted By: U3piano

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 11:35 AM

Oh im definitely in no hurry. I actually really want to keep my acoustic, and i have yet to look into options like sound isolation. Maybe the neighbour problem is (partly) fixable. But it's nice to know now the Nu1x option is there, and i will be testing it more at the dealer.

In my opinion the Nu1x is the best digital piano out there in a somewhat reasonable price range. (I don't care for the looks of all digital grands)
Posted By: CyberGene

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by Pete14
It would be good for you to test the NU1X thoroughly at the dealer.
Some members have indicated that it has been completely eradicated -and we all want that to be the case- but this is still a preliminary state. Once the instrument has been played for days (not just hours) by different people with different musical backgrounds we’ll have a more ‘conclusive’ report.
For example, one member indicated that the issue was not as prominent/frequent but to some extent the issue was still there.
Fingers crossed, it’s gone for good.


+1
Posted By: iLogic

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
Originally Posted by iLogic
Originally Posted by Tyr
As far as i can tell: eradicated.

Originally Posted by oneilt130
ch more than the black?


It depends on the store. Traditionally the white version is always a bit more expensive. On musicstore.de the white version costs 4555 € and the ebony version 4390 €. My local dealer holds a white version for 4595 €, the black one is also at 4390 €.


Thanks for the link but the white version was rather pricey there, over 5000€. I’ve contacted a few retailers and asked for when they have them back in stock, but one already replied something in line with “God only knows when Yamaha supplies it again”


In Denmark, www.digitalpiano.dk claim that expected delivery is 2-3 days longer (but they don't directly say what they compare it to!) However the white version is 13% more expensive than the black version.

EDIT: Kirstein in Germany have it in stock (expensively):

https://www.kirstein.de/Digitalpian...z.html?userInput=nu1x&ignoreForCache[]=userInput&queryFromSuggest=true&ignoreForCache[]=queryFromSuggest


It was these guys that gave me that answer haha
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by U3piano
Maybe the neighbour problem is (partly) fixable.

The neighbor might be thinking of how to fix the "piano" problem next door! wink

[Linked Image]
Posted By: U3piano

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 11:49 AM

grin

Neighbours, a flawed invention. When will an update with a fix be released for this problem...
Posted By: QuasiUnaFantasia

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by U3piano
grin

Neighbours, a flawed invention. When will an update with a fix be released for this problem...


One way to fix the neighbour problem is of course to bluntly murder them. But I would advise caution before taking this step; murder is illegal in many jurisdictions, and although murdering people unappreciative of piano playing would obviously leave you on the moral high ground, there could be issues. Certainly it would be sensible to cover your tracks, should you pursue this option.
Posted By: LarryK

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by U3piano
grin

Neighbours, a flawed invention. When will an update with a fix be released for this problem...


LOL. I am totally intimidated by the skill level displayed by my neighbor. She was hammering out some Rachmaninoff yesterday, she is an excellent player. Now that the weather is warmer, her windows are open, and our apartments are almost on the same level, but she’s in another building across an open courtyard.

When you live in a neighborhood in New York that’s full of musicians, this is what you get. I hope my classical guitar playing does not reach her ears. As for the piano, I’ll stick to headphones for a few more years.
Posted By: U3piano

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 12:14 PM

#QuasiUnaFantasia

Of course i have considered this option, but the chance that it might leave me with worse neighbours and no piano at all puts me off.
Posted By: Chantel

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 12:32 PM

Hi Tyr. Noticed you’ve owned and no longer own th clp 685 and CA98. Clp 685 was on my list as was the cs11 which is basically the same as a CA98. Can you tell me what it was about the 685 and CA98 that did not work for you. Was it the sound through speakers or the action. Could you just give me a quick run down of what you did and didn’t like about them and why you chose the Nu1x ultimately.
Thank you for your time.
Posted By: pathguy

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 12:46 PM

Played for an hour this morning before work, and as much as I tried, I could NOT get the loud note to sound.

So far, so good!
Posted By: Tyr

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by Chantel
Hi Tyr. Noticed you’ve owned and no longer own th clp 685 and CA98. Clp 685 was on my list as was the cs11 which is basically the same as a CA98. Can you tell me what it was about the 685 and CA98 that did not work for you. Was it the sound through speakers or the action. Could you just give me a quick run down of what you did and didn’t like about them and why you chose the Nu1x ultimately.
Thank you for your time.


The CA-98 wasn't just for me. The soundboard didn't produced the sound i expected. There was no pressure in bass and the overall sound was boxy like using a tin can phone. Due to the soundboard, it isn't designed to play at low volume. The transducers need some power to get the soundboard swinging. Also the look wasn't very pleasant to me, but that's a minor issue. wink The key action was good. Later, after the purchase of the NV10 i realized, that the Kawai and their sound is simply not for me. There are several other issues like managing favorites etc. that bothered me but essentially , i wasn't happy with the sound production.

The CLP-685 is a different Story. The speaker setup is nice (better than CA98 or Novus imho) but it sounds not like its advertised (marketing blah blah). In comparison with the NU1X it sounds more digital and brighter. The key action is way heavier than the Grand Feel 2 in the CS11/CA98. It feels a little binary and uncomfortable. After a while it gets better when used to it but there is something strange in the feeling that will never go away. As i teased above, i wanted an NV10 and sold the CLP for it. Later i came back to Yamaha and had to choose between the NU1X and the CLP-685 again. I played both side by side and it was a no brainer which one i will buy (even with the loud note issue).

I don't needed a 16 track recorder or an led screen, layering voices or having dozens of voices i'll never use.

So it's up to you which features are a must. wink
Posted By: Chantel

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 01:57 PM

This is great thank you so much. I was feeling the same. Was kinda thinking the 685 was warmer sounding but I think the action will bother me. Kawai gets such great reviews but it just wasn’t for me. It felt and sounded like I was sitting at a digital more Thani was expecting. I’m going to buy the Nu1x.
Thank you so much.
Posted By: CyberGene

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 02:01 PM

If we're talking about choosing between a a NU1X and any other non-hybrid digital piano (loud note issue aside), there's simply no contest here. The immediate impression from NU1 and NU1X after playing any Clavinova, or any other digital piano for that matter, was for me a WOW moment.
Posted By: QuasiUnaFantasia

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 02:11 PM

Before I bought my FP-30 I tried both the 685 and the NU1X. First I played the 685 for a while, feeling like I needed to use a sledge hammer to actually get the keys to move, and then I turned to the NU1X; that felt like being released from prison. What a difference! I seem to concur with others here: these two instruments, despite being priced somewhat similarly, cannot possibly aim at the same people. The NU1X is a joy, the 685 is a punishment.
Posted By: Pete14

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by CyberGene
If we're talking about choosing between a a NU1X and any other non-hybrid digital piano (loud note issue aside), there's simply no contest here. The immediate impression from NU1 and NU1X after playing any Clavinova, or any other digital piano for that matter, was for me a WOW moment.


It seems like you still have feelings for the NU1X; an affair is a risky proposition at this junction because it could lead to a separation from the N1X and a reunion with your first true love: NU1X! wink
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by Pete14
Originally Posted by CyberGene
If we're talking about choosing between a a NU1X and any other non-hybrid digital piano (loud note issue aside), there's simply no contest here. The immediate impression from NU1 and NU1X after playing any Clavinova, or any other digital piano for that matter, was for me a WOW moment.


It seems like you still have feelings for the NU1X; an affair is a risky proposition at this junction because it could lead to a separation from the N1X and a reunion with your first true love: NU1X! wink

Meetings with old flames are always dangerous. This happened to me once when I was invited for a coffee... Only to have my then girlfriend, now wife find out, post facto... shocked shocked shocked

I recommend CyberGene put all thoughts of the NU1X firmly out of his mind for domestic peace of mind!
Posted By: CyberGene

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by Pete14
Originally Posted by CyberGene
If we're talking about choosing between a a NU1X and any other non-hybrid digital piano (loud note issue aside), there's simply no contest here. The immediate impression from NU1 and NU1X after playing any Clavinova, or any other digital piano for that matter, was for me a WOW moment.


It seems like you still have feelings for the NU1X; an affair is a risky proposition at this junction because it could lead to a separation from the N1X and a reunion with your first true love: NU1X! wink

Well, yes and no smile N1X is almost twice as expensive as NU1X and it's not twice better smile Which is why the NU1X is better value. However N1X is better than NU1X in every other respect. I think if the loud note issue was fixed while I still had the NU1X and I mean *really* fixed, I would have kept it. Yet, for one reason or another, I ended up with the N1X and it is the better instrument, I love it in every way, I can't find a single fault with it and it didn't break my account. I simply see no reason to downgrade. The only possible reason would eventually be a financial one. If I have to start all over again, I would purchase the N1X, straight smile But if I am on a tight budget and can stretch only to the NU1X, I wouldn't hesitate and would not feel bad about not spending more for the N1X. Hope that makes it clear wink

P.S. Well, I realize even NU1X isn't exactly what people "on a tight budget" purchase... But you know what I meant by that wink
Posted By: LarryK

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by CyberGene
If we're talking about choosing between a a NU1X and any other non-hybrid digital piano (loud note issue aside), there's simply no contest here. The immediate impression from NU1 and NU1X after playing any Clavinova, or any other digital piano for that matter, was for me a WOW moment.


My friend, a musical genius with a degree in composition from Columbia University, loves his NU1 and says that he’s used to playing upright actions because that’s all he’s ever played on, for the most part. When he got to grands, he said he liked the Baldwins. He says that after I’ve been practicing for five or six hours, for years, I can think about upgrading, lol. He also said I should put aside anything to do with numbers when sitting down at a piano.

What is it about the NU1/NU1X that you love?
Posted By: CyberGene

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by LarryK
What is it about the NU1/NU1X that you love?

Well, I've said that many times but I've grown playing an upright. Maybe I'm too used to upright actions but a NU1/X immediately feels like a real piano unlike other (non-hybrid) digital pianos. The control, the feel, the sound! It may not have the grand-piano repetition but so many people all over the world play upright pianos, some of them real virtuoso players, and many of them love their pianos smile
Posted By: U3piano

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 04:17 PM

Cybergene, im curious to know what makes the N1x a better piano to the Nu1x, could you explain?

I understand of course it has the better action, that's the obvious part.

Then, i read it also has hammer sensors, i wonder what does this improve, and if the loud note issue is truely fixed on the nu1x, do you think the extra sensors are a noticable improvement somehow compared to the nu1x's keyboard only sensors?

How about the speaker system/sound projection? That's probably better on the N1x? And if yes, how much better would you say it is?

I'm guessing headphone sound is the same.

You seem like the person with the knowledge and experience to be able to answer all these questions. grin


Posted By: spanishbuddha

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by U3piano

So, only the Nu1x gets the update? No love for the older Nu1? That would suck for Nu1 owners.

I’m an NU1 owner but have not experienced the problem. Probably my level of play or choice of music. Anyway I asked Yamaha about the firmware upgrade, and they said no plans at this time for the NU1. I don’t have GAS for an upgrade, except perhaps a cheaper N2 or the mythical N2X, but maybe the NU1X with it’s new playability (!), extra voices, audio interface, app integration would be an option. Anything else? I have to find and play one in a store. I know Bonners do p/x.
Posted By: oneilt130

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by LarryK
What is it about the NU1/NU1X that you love?

Well, I've said that many times but I've grown playing an upright. Maybe I'm too used to upright actions but a NU1/X immediately feels like a real piano unlike other (non-hybrid) digital pianos. The control, the feel, the sound! It may not have the grand-piano repetition but so many people all over the world play upright pianos, some of them real virtuoso players, and many of them love their pianos smile


Of course this is the problem with all of the videos out there. Whatever digital piano you have someone will have posted some amazing videos and you have to fess up that it isn't the equipment that was the problem... When I was playing my 50+ year old Baldwin spinet I could at least pretend that it was the piano and not me. smile

BTW speaking of the spinet I finally got around to taking it apart for disposal this weekend. Looking at Craig's list for while all the postings I saw were people trying to give away pianos that were nicer than mine and the posts were out there for a long time. So I got a wrench, loosened up the strings on the harp and went at it. The parts I could take of with just removing some screws or panels that were supposed to come off did and then out came the sludge hammer. When that wasn't enough the demolition saw did the rest. Most of the innards went out in two large garbage cans. The harp is going to the scrap metal yard, I was going to keep some of the wood panels for woodworking purposes, maybe make something to store music in but now that I have looked at them closer I can see they are plywood veneer so I'll cut them up and put them out with next weeks garbage. I did this on Sunday and then that night I learned of the upgrade for the NU1X. Some good karma there.
Posted By: U3piano

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 04:27 PM

#spanishbuddha

I just think yamaha should update the original Nu1 too, since it's really just a fix for a design flaw. But im guessing they won't, as that could hurt Nu1x sales. Good thing you never had the problem, and don't need any fix!
Posted By: CyberGene

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by U3piano
Cybergene, im curious to know what makes the N1x a better piano to the Nu1x, could you explain?

I understand of course it has the better action, that's the obvious part.

Then, i read it also has hammer sensors, i wonder what does this improve, and if the loud note issue is truely fixed on the nu1x, do you think the extra sensors are a noticable improvement somehow compared to the nu1x's keyboard only sensors?

How about the speaker system/sound projection? That's probably better on the N1x? And if yes, how much better would you say it is?

I'm guessing headphone sound is the same.


Well, as you may have read in my thread about NU1X, the real reason for me to return it was a little bit inconsistent velocity between some keys. Whether that was a malfunction/defect or was a normal thing I don't know, however a procedure for calibration of keys is included in NU1X and not in the N-series (OTOH they say key calibration is automatic, probably linked to the hammers, so it's always very consistent due to the double sensors). So, it's probably a subjective feeling but I think the N1X is slightly more consistent in velocity control and very predictable. That being said, every acoustic piano will have some inconsistencies between keys and only a recent and high quality regulation by a trained technician would bring it back to being smooth and consistent. Anyway, N1X gives me a peace of mind because all seems very predictable. Maybe unnecessarily so but still it feels better in that regard. Then it's the slightly better sound system, and of course the grand piano action which has better repetition. All that is only a slight advantage over NU1X as I said but nevertheless makes it a better instrument in every respect besides price smile And arguably besides form-factor and appearance.
Posted By: LarryK

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by oneilt130
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by LarryK
What is it about the NU1/NU1X that you love?

Well, I've said that many times but I've grown playing an upright. Maybe I'm too used to upright actions but a NU1/X immediately feels like a real piano unlike other (non-hybrid) digital pianos. The control, the feel, the sound! It may not have the grand-piano repetition but so many people all over the world play upright pianos, some of them real virtuoso players, and many of them love their pianos smile


Of course this is the problem with all of the videos out there. Whatever digital piano you have someone will have posted some amazing videos and you have to fess up that it isn't the equipment that was the problem... When I was playing my 50+ year old Baldwin spinet I could at least pretend that it was the piano and not me. smile

BTW speaking of the spinet I finally got around to taking it apart for disposal this weekend. Looking at Craig's list for while all the postings I saw were people trying to give away pianos that were nicer than mine and the posts were out there for a long time. So I got a wrench, loosened up the strings on the harp and went at it. The parts I could take of with just removing some screws or panels that were supposed to come off did and then out came the sludge hammer. When that wasn't enough the demolition saw did the rest. Most of the innards went out in two large garbage cans. The harp is going to the scrap metal yard, I was going to keep some of the wood panels for woodworking purposes, maybe make something to store music in but now that I have looked at them closer I can see they are plywood veneer so I'll cut them up and put them out with next weeks garbage. I did this on Sunday and then that night I learned of the upgrade for the NU1X. Some good karma there.


I can’t see shedding any tears over a Baldwin spinet. I lived with one for a while and did not miss it after I left. I found out recently that the person still has the thing, I don’t know why, sentimental reasons, I suppose. I have to believe a NU1X is better than that spinet.
Posted By: U3piano

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 04:45 PM

Cybergene thanks for the explanation, and i wish for you many years of peaceful, predictable playing on the N1x, well that doesn't sound nice somehow, but in a positive way. grin

And of course its also unlikely to go down that way, since it's predictable you will trade in the N1x when the N2x is released. whistle
Posted By: LarryK

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by LarryK
What is it about the NU1/NU1X that you love?

Well, I've said that many times but I've grown playing an upright. Maybe I'm too used to upright actions but a NU1/X immediately feels like a real piano unlike other (non-hybrid) digital pianos. The control, the feel, the sound! It may not have the grand-piano repetition but so many people all over the world play upright pianos, some of them real virtuoso players, and many of them love their pianos smile


Thanks for this explanation. My friend says he’s addicted to his NU1 and plays it every day. He’s an advanced player. The NU1X is a viable upgrade path for me from the P-515 if I lose the battle with my wife over getting rid of the credenza, which holds her scarves, in order to bring in an acoustic upright. :-) The NU1X does not take up a lot of room and will fit in the space I have in the bedroom for the P-515. Interesting.
Posted By: U3piano

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 06:31 PM

Don't share this new information with your wife, it won't help you in your battle.
Posted By: tudor33sud

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by tudor33sud
Does anyone know if we could hope getting a Yamaha NU3-X with a full upright cabinet? I'm in love with my Roland LX708, and I was thinking that as an amateur, I might like to settle on an upright action for many years to come, but I don't want to spare brilliant sound. I'm currently used with Roland's setup of 8 speakers and with some nice woofers, so does anyone know some updates about Yamaha releasing something like that?

Sorry if I am offtopic!

You realize that the LX708 has a simulated grand piano action and not an upright action?

Sorry, I missed your comment. Of course I know about it, however I'd like to try an acoustic action without breaking the bank. As far as I know, the big downside of upright actions is only the repetition of notes. Myself, being an amateur, I am playing mostly Yann Tiersen / Einaudi kind of music, struggling with Debussy's reverie ( which is not from the complcated ones ) , so I don't think I'm going to hit the repetition limit of the action! laugh at least I get this benefit from being just an amateur player.
Posted By: LarryK

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by tudor33sud
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by tudor33sud
Does anyone know if we could hope getting a Yamaha NU3-X with a full upright cabinet? I'm in love with my Roland LX708, and I was thinking that as an amateur, I might like to settle on an upright action for many years to come, but I don't want to spare brilliant sound. I'm currently used with Roland's setup of 8 speakers and with some nice woofers, so does anyone know some updates about Yamaha releasing something like that?

Sorry if I am offtopic!

You realize that the LX708 has a simulated grand piano action and not an upright action?

Sorry, I missed your comment. Of course I know about it, however I'd like to try an acoustic action without breaking the bank. As far as I know, the big downside of upright actions is only the repetition of notes. Myself, being an amateur, I am playing mostly Yann Tiersen / Einaudi kind of music, struggling with Debussy's reverie ( which is not from the complcated ones ) , so I don't think I'm going to hit the repetition limit of the action! laugh at least I get this benefit from being just an amateur player.


My music major friend kind of laughed at me with regards to the repetition limit and said that he hadn’t known anyone to hit it in all the years he studied piano and attended recitals.

I’m seeing Yann Tiersen on May 28th at the Beacon in New York! Woohoo! Have you seen him live? I hope he’s not too loud, I’m in the front. No worries, I have my 15dB cut plugs.
Posted By: LarryK

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by U3piano
Don't share this new information with your wife, it won't help you in your battle.


The battle has been lost before it has been joined, I should stop kidding myself.
Posted By: iLogic

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 08:07 PM

So, I just took a quick glance of the specs comparing the NU1X with the 685 on the Yamaha website (I know, specs doesn’t tell the whole story) and for some reason they list a gazillion specs for the 685 and like 10 specs for the NU1X, as if it’s lacking a bunch of stuff... whatever.

Something I noticed though, is that the NU1X has VRM (Virtual Resonance Modelling) as compared to Improved VRM on the 685. What’s that about?
Posted By: CyberGene

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 08:37 PM

NU1X also has the improved VRM with aliquot and body resonances added, compared to regular VRM with only damper and string resonance. BTW N1X uses the regular VRM smile
Posted By: Gombessa

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 08:39 PM

I think the NU1X has the "Improved VRM" as well.

From the CLP-685 page that describes the old/new VRM:

Quote
The original VRM calculates the various states of the strings for each of the 88 notes on the keyboard, from one instant to the next, and timing and depth of damper pedals pressed. The enhanced VRM now also calculates aliquot resonance in the upper octaves, and the full resonance of the soundboard, rim, and frame.


From the NU1X manual, damper, string, aliquot and body resonances are supported in its VRM implementation:
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1293165/Yamaha-Avantgrand-Nu1x.html?page=21
Posted By: iLogic

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by Gombessa
I think the NU1X has the "Improved VRM" as well.

From the CLP-685 page that describes the old/new VRM:

Quote
The original VRM calculates the various states of the strings for each of the 88 notes on the keyboard, from one instant to the next, and timing and depth of damper pedals pressed. The enhanced VRM now also calculates aliquot resonance in the upper octaves, and the full resonance of the soundboard, rim, and frame.


From the NU1X manual, damper, string, aliquot and body resonances are supported in its VRM implementation:
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1293165/Yamaha-Avantgrand-Nu1x.html?page=21


Ah ok. Nice. Weird that they’ve written wrong specs.
Posted By: tudor33sud

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 09:35 PM

Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by tudor33sud
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by tudor33sud
Does anyone know if we could hope getting a Yamaha NU3-X with a full upright cabinet? I'm in love with my Roland LX708, and I was thinking that as an amateur, I might like to settle on an upright action for many years to come, but I don't want to spare brilliant sound. I'm currently used with Roland's setup of 8 speakers and with some nice woofers, so does anyone know some updates about Yamaha releasing something like that?

Sorry if I am offtopic!

You realize that the LX708 has a simulated grand piano action and not an upright action?

Sorry, I missed your comment. Of course I know about it, however I'd like to try an acoustic action without breaking the bank. As far as I know, the big downside of upright actions is only the repetition of notes. Myself, being an amateur, I am playing mostly Yann Tiersen / Einaudi kind of music, struggling with Debussy's reverie ( which is not from the complcated ones ) , so I don't think I'm going to hit the repetition limit of the action! laugh at least I get this benefit from being just an amateur player.


My music major friend kind of laughed at me with regards to the repetition limit and said that he hadn’t known anyone to hit it in all the years he studied piano and attended recitals.

I’m seeing Yann Tiersen on May 28th at the Beacon in New York! Woohoo! Have you seen him live? I hope he’s not too loud, I’m in the front. No worries, I have my 15dB cut plugs.

Well, I've had the chance of seeing him live twice! I don't want to spoil anything to you, but to be honest, I liked the first encounter with him a little bit more, since he was playing EUSA back then and a couple of other pieces. (I was a little biased since I'm a sucker for all of his piano pieces, and that concert was 70% solo piano. He's such a master at playing the piano, no one can sound the way he does). On the other hand, the representation you re going to see it's linked with his latest album, which is called All. I love how he plays the piano in this concert as well, although the main male vocalist may sound a little bit odd if you re not used to him! laugh

Anyway, make sure to drink a glass of wine before, I'm sure you'll enjoy. You ll get to hear all the master pieces from the latest album, plus some nice bonus additions, linked to Amelie, which he didn't play usually. I'm sure you'll be impressed with the lighting show as well, and he also has a DJ like person who mixes up synths and things which sound awesome. Please share your oppinion as well after you get the chance to see him. I saw him in Berlin in March, so I think the concert only got better over time.

PS: sorry for the long response, but I needed to say a lot about Yann, since he's the reason why I started taking piano lessons years ago smile and after all this time, I am still guided by his style.
Posted By: BradleyG

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by LarryK
My music major friend kind of laughed at me with regards to the repetition limit and said that he hadn’t known anyone to hit it in all the years he studied piano and attended recitals.


Am I wrong in thinking that hitting the repetition limit is exactly what is going on when the action blocks and, prior to the recent patch, a loud note occurs?
Posted By: Gombessa

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by BradleyG

Am I wrong in thinking that hitting the repetition limit is exactly what is going on when the action blocks and, prior to the recent patch, a loud note occurs?


It's not repetition speed that triggers it, it's the position of the key when you strike a repeated note.

I hit the loud note issue frequently when I play the NU1, and it's because I don't always lift my finger off the key completely when I go to strike it again. Most of the time, I hit the issue with slow/relaxed repetitions rather than quick ones.

I think the ability to reliably restrike a note without fully lifting the key is double-escapement, which is another general difference between grands and uprights, but not directly related to repetition speed.
Posted By: BradleyG

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 10:11 PM

Thanks for clarifying Gombessa!
Posted By: U3piano

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 10:18 PM

So, i guess while i didn't understand why Yamaha would release a successor to the Nu1 with the same loud note issue, they were already busy working to fix it.
Posted By: Chantel

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/23/19 10:35 PM

BradelyG. If it is convenient to do so that would be wonderful and appreciated!
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/24/19 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by LarryK
My music major friend kind of laughed at me with regards to the repetition limit and said that he hadn’t known anyone to hit it in all the years he studied piano and attended recitals.

Send this video to your friend. She can be seen pressing on keys that make no sound:



There are also missing notes here on this upright, but I think in this case the upright is completely broken so that can't be counted against an upright action.

She has this piece so wired, she almost never misses a note when she has played this on a grand:













I don't believe your friend is right. In fact, I'm sure he is wrong. (That doesn't mean you or I will play pieces that test the limits of an upright though, at least not soon.)

BTW, unless one uses ando's innovative technique it will also be difficult to play Ravel's Ondine at tempo on an upright.

Consider that the maximum key repetition rate of an upright action is 7 Hz. So imagine a piece that is crochet/quarter-note = 120 BPM. so there are two beats a second. Now give the piece a single pair of 16th note that repeat (e.g., Ondine-like pieces). That already requires 8 Hz and exceeds the maximum of 7 Hz. Unless you use rubato on that measure, the second note of the pair will sometimes not make a sound.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: LarryK

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/24/19 02:26 AM

Ok, I sent the first video to him and asked him for his thoughts. His is just one opinion, I know other people have different opinions. I know I don’t have five or six hours a day to practice, for decades, to reach his level of playing, it’s just not going to happen for me, I have to be realistic. I just found it interesting that he had never run into this problem among the pianists he hung out with in music school.

I showed him the magnet repetition mechanism on the Seiler and he didn’t feel that it was necessary for me to buy a piano with that feature. I wanted to take him to a showroom to get his opinion playing one of those pianos but Seiler has no dealers in Manhattan, only way out in Long Island, and he is a busy guy.
Posted By: LarryK

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/24/19 07:52 AM

My friend responded to the video and said, yes, he sees that happening and he thinks it’s cool that people are solving hardware problems like this, but I think it’s fair to say that he sticks by his assertion that this was not a problem he encountered in music school.

I think the more interesting topic is how adult musicians should be kind to themselves when, after ten years or more, they have not reached the level of a virtuoso on the instrument. Piano will be my third instrument where that will be true, after, first, violin, and, second, classical guitar.

My duo partner, on the classical guitar, has let other people’s virtuosity interfere with her ability to feel any joy in playing music. She has told me that she feels that every note she plays sounds like crap, based on how she has seen others play on YouTube. I disagree, and argue to contrary, to no avail.

I strive to maintain a child’s joy in being able to play any music, regardless of how poorly. I am like the students described in this video:



Samuel Beckett, the Irish playwright, used to say that it was “time to shift Mozart in his grave” whenever he sat down to play at the piano. I do not expect to reach a level where any composer will remain in quiet repose while I am at the keyboard. No repeating mechanism is going to change that.
Posted By: CyberGene

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/24/19 08:08 AM

I doubt many on this forum, me included, will be able to ever play the La Campanella, even on a grand piano laugh Same for Ondine. One or two pieces, big deal. Not an argument against upright pianos IMO smile
Posted By: LarryK

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/24/19 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by CyberGene
I doubt many on this forum, me included, will be able to ever play the La Campanella, even on a grand piano laugh Same for Ondine. One or two pieces, big deal. Not an argument against upright pianos IMO smile


Succinctly put, I agree.

I am going to shift my focus from the speed of the notes to the quality of the tone and will strive to find an upright that has a tone which is pleasing to my ear. That might be a hybrid or it might be an acoustic, I’m going to make that decision in five years.
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/24/19 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by CyberGene
I doubt many on this forum, me included, will be able to ever play the La Campanella, even on a grand piano laugh

Someday. Sigh...

EDIT: I hope I didn't just cause anyone to break into uncontrollable laughter while they were drinking something! wink
Posted By: CyberGene

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/24/19 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by CyberGene
I doubt many on this forum, me included, will be able to ever play the La Campanella, even on a grand piano laugh

Someday. Sigh...

EDIT: I hope I didn't just cause anyone to break into uncontrollable laughter while they were drinking something! wink

Well, that’s all very moving smile I’m being serious.
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/24/19 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by CyberGene
I doubt many on this forum, me included, will be able to ever play the La Campanella, even on a grand piano laugh

Someday. Sigh...

EDIT: I hope I didn't just cause anyone to break into uncontrollable laughter while they were drinking something! wink

Well, that’s all very moving smile I’m being serious.

Well to give some idea of the zero level I was at in 2018 when I bought this Roland FP-30 that is being replace today (yay!) - the absolute zero below which there is only an inverted Boltzmann distribution laugh - I didn't know pianos all had 88 keys and I actually thought that La Campanella was a piece I would be able to self-teach myself to in two years. Well at the 15-month point, I am taking two piano lessons a week, and nowhere close to the goal. I've revised this goal now to seven years. wink (There may be those that still snorted out something they were drinking!)
Posted By: QuasiUnaFantasia

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/24/19 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I didn't know pianos all had 88 keys


They don't. 88 keys is a relatively modern invention, in earlier times 85 keys was the norm. The grand I grew up playing has 85. I don't know when the three extra keys came ind, but it must have been sometime in the early half of the 20th century.
Posted By: oneilt130

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/24/19 12:35 PM

OK, Tyrone, its game time. I fully expect blow by blow postings on the delivery of the N1X after your extensive research. You know, pictures of the delivery, moving it into the room, first song played videos etc. Doesn't need to be done in real time, a 10 minute delay in postings would be acceptable. smile
Posted By: LarryK

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/24/19 01:37 PM

The thing about studying a musical instrument is that it is never a straight climb, there are many ups and downs, and times when you feel completely lost, and you feel that you’re making very little progress. I think this feeling becomes more pronounced as you become an intermediate player, because the incremental progress becomes smaller.

A friend of mine is working on a few measures in the Aria from Bach’s Goldberg Variations. The ornaments are driving him crazy. He’s spent hours on just a couple of measures. If you do the math and factor in a person’s lifespan, it doesn’t look good, but, I say, play on! Dream!

I’ve posted this many times but I always find people who haven’t read it. It’s an essay by Lynn Harrell, the cellist, and is full of advice for musicians who are about to embark on a career:

https://www.classicalmpr.org/blog/classical-notes/2008/06/16/lynn_harrell_co

His advice applies to anyone who plays an instrument.
Posted By: Tyr

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/24/19 02:38 PM

Status Update: The loud note issue has still not happened. Yesterday 3 hours of practice, today two hours. thumb
Posted By: LarryK

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/24/19 04:50 PM

My friend finished up this discussion by saying that after fifty years of playing, he rarely finds a piece in which he is held back by the repetition of a single note. He says there are a zillion other musical challenges before that one, and that the music makes the playing worthwhile, not the hardware.
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/24/19 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by LarryK
My friend finished up this discussion by saying that after fifty years of playing, he rarely finds a piece in which he is held back by the repetition of a single note. He says there are a zillion other musical challenges before that one, and that the music makes the playing worthwhile, not the hardware.

Well, and as mentioned above, forum member ando did come up with an innovative way to handle soft and fast note repetition in Ondine on an upright, so there may be workarounds for at least some cases where a problem occurs, even if the workarounds are not straight-forward or obvious.

Also note that Lisitsa was willing to give La Campanella a go on both of the uprights even though she was likely expecting that there would be missing notes - but in both cases, she wasn't playing a concert in a concert hall and expected the audience to be unlikely to even notice any missing notes. So it's really only a problem when you set your standards too high.
Posted By: LarryK

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/24/19 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by LarryK
My friend finished up this discussion by saying that after fifty years of playing, he rarely finds a piece in which he is held back by the repetition of a single note. He says there are a zillion other musical challenges before that one, and that the music makes the playing worthwhile, not the hardware.

Well, and as mentioned above, forum member ando did come up with an innovative way to handle soft and fast note repetition in Ondine on an upright, so there may be workarounds for at least some cases where a problem occurs, even if the solutions are not straight-forward or obvious.


Yes, I saw that, I just don’t think I’ll ever play that piece.

Like I mentioned, I am going to seek refuge in tone. That refuge has served me well with my classical guitars. Having a lovely tone is worth far more to me than being able to repeat notes quickly. Even after ten years of studying the classical guitar, I regularly see professional players who will play faster than I will ever be able to play. It’s a hard truth that I have come to accept. My motor skills are not going to improve in that direction as I age.
Posted By: iLogic

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/24/19 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by Tyr
Status Update: The loud note issue has still not happened. Yesterday 3 hours of practice, today two hours. thumb


And I’m negotiating with retailers as we speak laugh
Posted By: pathguy

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/25/19 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by iLogic
Originally Posted by Tyr
Status Update: The loud note issue has still not happened. Yesterday 3 hours of practice, today two hours. thumb


And I’m negotiating with retailers as we speak laugh

Good luck!!!!
Posted By: MarcBlux

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/25/19 09:13 PM

Ths forum is great, thanks for sharing !

I am a adult beginner. Only 6 months practicing every day and enjoying a lot the challenge.
I have a Korg Grandstage that sounds really good with headphones and steinway sampling. Other pianos are average.
I would even say that I find the korg sound more pleasing that the acoustic (basic) yamaha of the music school.
I have not heard an acoustic upright that I liked (apart Bechstein 116). I would love to have a Steinway O180 one day ... in a house ... and be able to play something else than the lesson 56 of the Alfred book ...

What I don’t like :
1. The upright acoustic piano at school has a complete different touch, so it takes some time to adapt. Also it gives me the impression I will not learn well
2. Resonance is a bit too systematic / repetitive
3 pedal doesn’t sound very nartral

Therefore my question : what is the best instrument for a beginner ?
- NU1x as it will take 5 yrs+ (Or forever) to reach its limits, and the touch will be very similar to the one at school. It is also more compact and will fit well in place of the korg.
- N1x, as it is better, and I should benefit from it sooner that I believe.
I don’t consider the budget gap as a criteria, better invest 3k more now than loosing more during the upgrade.

Any advice would be great !
Thanks
Marc
Posted By: pwl

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/25/19 09:44 PM

Marc -

The easy - and obvious, and correct - answer is to get to a store and play both of these. And just because you're a "beginner" doesn't mean you won't have a meaningful reaction to the differences between the two models.

It's also easy to say that the N1X is "better" - particularly because of the grand action. So it's not going to be wrong to just go ahead and buy it, especially if you respond positively when you sit down and play it.

Having said the above, I smile whenever I sit down at an NU1X (or the previous NU1) at my local dealer. It's fun, I like it! And there's something to be said for its compact footprint.
Posted By: U3piano

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/25/19 09:51 PM

I you don't consider the cost, I think the best instrument between those 2 is simply the N1X. My trusted sources told me it's better than the Nu1x, but not by alot.

That said, maybe it IS better to practice on a worse (more difficult) action? I don't know, to me there is logic in this way of thinking. Not that the Nu1(x) action is bad, it's great, but it is still an upright action.

Nevertheless if budget and esthetics are no issue I would personally just choose the better piano.



Posted By: MarcBlux

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/25/19 10:05 PM

Well, I am trying to find a shop with both pianos but didn’t find yet n my region.
I could only try the Kawai nv10 and must say I didn’t like the sound. Mid bass was not natural sounding and treble was too bright.

I have the feeling that it will take years before I play fast enough and before I am capable of playing the nuances that a grand action might enable. Maybe an upright action enables to deelop the fingers muscles better ??? (Sorry if this is a stupid idea).

Anyhow good to know that you still enjoy the NU1x even if you have the better one.

Many thanks
Posted By: Tyr

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/25/19 11:40 PM

I wouldn't use the term "better" in this case. The most differences between the NU1X and the N1X are plain a matter of personal taste and budget. Both instruments are fine and a joy to play and have nearly the identical features. I for myself prefer a grand action but i won't trade in my NU1X for an N1X for that. The NU1X action is a bit heavier due to the fact it's an upright action, but very straight and offers a unique feel to play compared to the grand mimicking actions on the DP (non hybrid) market.
Posted By: pathguy

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/26/19 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by MarcBlux
Well, I am trying to find a shop with both pianos but didn’t find yet n my region.
I could only try the Kawai nv10 and must say I didn’t like the sound. Mid bass was not natural sounding and treble was too bright.

I have the feeling that it will take years before I play fast enough and before I am capable of playing the nuances that a grand action might enable. Maybe an upright action enables to deelop the fingers muscles better ??? (Sorry if this is a stupid idea).

Anyhow good to know that you still enjoy the NU1x even if you have the better one.

Many thanks

Marc I had some of the same feelings as you. I was playing on a Roland FP-30 for about 9 months as a complete beginner. I found that I enjoyed playing and started taking lessons after a few months of doing an online course. When I went to one of our local piano dealers, I happened to sit down at the NU1X and instantly was blown away. However, I thought that I wasn't advanced enough to really "deserve" it. I purchased it anyway, and I'm really happy I did. The level of enjoyment I get from playing it is head and shoulders beyond what playing the Roland gives me--and don't get me wrong: the Roland is a great instrument, too.

My teacher was happy with my decision as well because (as he rightly pointed out) if you enjoy playing it, you'll practice more and become a better player.

Bottom line: don't let your lack of experience deter you from getting something that you will enjoy and grow into; I think you'll be glad you did.

Good luck in your search!
Posted By: MarcBlux

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/26/19 10:07 AM

Thank you all.
Looks like the NU1x makes sense for me today. And if I deserve an upgrade in some years time, I will have the pleasure to go fot the N1z !
Next step is to confirm with a test, still need to find where.
Posted By: Pete14

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/27/19 02:23 PM

Loud note is no more? To an agreement have we come?
Posted By: Tyr

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/27/19 02:48 PM

We will see in the next weeks/months.But for now it seems that the issue is gone.
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/27/19 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by Tyr
We will see in the next weeks/months.But for now it seems that the issue is gone.

This is so awesome! I don't have a NU1X, but I'm so happy for all of you who do. I really think Yamaha should advertise this "improvement!"
Posted By: oneilt130

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/27/19 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by Pete14
Loud note is no more? To an agreement have we come?


I'm in my 8th day of the update and I would declare it fixed at this point.
Posted By: Pete14

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/27/19 04:01 PM

Wow, this is truly great. Just recently I watched an NU1X video on YouTube where most of the comments stated the superb quality of this instrument, ‘if not for that loud note’. I’m assuming all the returns, negative -loud note- reviews, and warranty calls eventually got to Yamaha!
Posted By: WeakLeftHand

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/27/19 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by Pete14
Wow, this is truly great. Just recently I watched an NU1X video on YouTube where most of the comments stated the superb quality of this instrument, ‘if not for that loud note’. I’m assuming all the returns, negative -loud note- reviews, and warranty calls eventually got to Yamaha!


Well, good grief, finally! Maybe I can include it on my short list now.
Posted By: olivier du nord

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/28/19 03:50 PM

Unfortunately for Transacoustic owners, no patch is available on Yamaha website :-(
I hope they will make an effort, but the number of Transacoustic owners is surely less than Nu1x ...
Posted By: LarryK

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/28/19 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by olivier du nord
Unfortunately for Transacoustic owners, no patch is available on Yamaha website :-(
I hope they will make an effort, but the number of Transacoustic owners is surely less than Nu1x ...


You own a TransAcoustic, wow, which one?

I’m excited by the idea, if not the cost. Do you have trouble keeping the real strings in tune with the digital sounds?

What has been your experience with the piano? How long have you owned it? Are you happy you bought it?

The TransAcoustic is on my list if my wife will not agree to having both an acoustic piano and a digital piano in the apartment.
Posted By: spanishbuddha

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/28/19 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by olivier du nord
Unfortunately for Transacoustic owners, no patch is available on Yamaha website :-(
I hope they will make an effort, but the number of Transacoustic owners is surely less than Nu1x ...

Might be worth directly asking Yamaha if they don’t already list any firmware updates on their website for the TA? I own an NU1 and there are no firmware updates listed at all, and yet I know they exist for service technicians. I did ask about the playability update for the NU1 but the answer was still no.
Posted By: iLogic

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/28/19 06:50 PM

Didn’t get the best deal ever (man, these retailers are tough...) but I still feel somewhat happy, and thus, I will make up my mind when the last 2 guys get back to me. Then begins the waiting game. Apparently the NU1X would be mine late June/early July if I ordered it soon, since it was shipped to Europe in the end of May, and from there it took about a month for it to reach the retailers.
Posted By: Herq

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/29/19 03:35 AM

Originally Posted by spanishbuddha
Originally Posted by olivier du nord
Unfortunately for Transacoustic owners, no patch is available on Yamaha website :-(
I hope they will make an effort, but the number of Transacoustic owners is surely less than Nu1x ...

Might be worth directly asking Yamaha if they don’t already list any firmware updates on their website for the TA? I own an NU1 and there are no firmware updates listed at all, and yet I know they exist for service technicians. I did ask about the playability update for the NU1 but the answer was still no.


I also own a NU1 and started wondering the same. Now that we know the NU1X firmware update is effective, we should all open support tickets requesting the corresponding update for the NU1 (or TAs). I’m hoping it’s not too much of a development effort to port the NU1X solution to the NU1.
He’s the email response I received from Yamaha when I opened a ticket:

First off, according to my contacts in product development, a similar firmware update for the NU1 is being prepared for release. Look out for this fix within the next few months.”

Maybe I’m being naive but I’m cautiously optimistic.

That being said, he also recommended working with a servicer to investige the condition of the action regulation, to see if any improvements can be made before the update is available, which in my opinion is not likely to yield any results, as I’ve had this problem since early on.
Posted By: Pete14

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/29/19 10:28 AM

Based on that response, ‘ look for fix within next few months,’ I’d say there is a chance.
Yamaha rarely gives straight responses, and this response seems fairly straightforward and clear.
Posted By: iLogic

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/29/19 11:08 AM

Just ordered a white NU1X cool
Posted By: oneilt130

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/29/19 11:19 AM


Originally Posted by iLogic
Just ordered a white NU1X cool


Congrats! Those seem to be hard to find.
Posted By: oneilt130

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/29/19 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Herq
Originally Posted by spanishbuddha
Originally Posted by olivier du nord
Unfortunately for Transacoustic owners, no patch is available on Yamaha website :-(
I hope they will make an effort, but the number of Transacoustic owners is surely less than Nu1x ...

Might be worth directly asking Yamaha if they don’t already list any firmware updates on their website for the TA? I own an NU1 and there are no firmware updates listed at all, and yet I know they exist for service technicians. I did ask about the playability update for the NU1 but the answer was still no.


I also own a NU1 and started wondering the same. Now that we know the NU1X firmware update is effective, we should all open support tickets requesting the corresponding update for the NU1 (or TAs). I’m hoping it’s not too much of a development effort to port the NU1X solution to the NU1.
He’s the email response I received from Yamaha when I opened a ticket:

First off, according to my contacts in product development, a similar firmware update for the NU1 is being prepared for release. Look out for this fix within the next few months.”

Maybe I’m being naive but I’m cautiously optimistic.

That being said, he also recommended working with a servicer to investige the condition of the action regulation, to see if any improvements can be made before the update is available, which in my opinion is not likely to yield any results, as I’ve had this problem since early on.


Keeping fingers crossed for NU1 owners. That seems to be a pretty direct response. It does make sense as the programming logic of how to solve the problem would be the same for both the NU1X and NU1 they would just have to implement it for the NU1.
Posted By: pathguy

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/29/19 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by iLogic
Just ordered a white NU1X cool

Outstanding--you'll love it!!!

I received a very small possible loud note--the first since the upgrade--but I honestly think it was due to user inexperience rather than the NU1X itself. blush

Very happy with the update.
Posted By: olivier du nord

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/29/19 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by olivier du nord
Unfortunately for Transacoustic owners, no patch is available on Yamaha website :-(
I hope they will make an effort, but the number of Transacoustic owners is surely less than Nu1x ...


You own a TransAcoustic, wow, which one?

I’m excited by the idea, if not the cost. Do you have trouble keeping the real strings in tune with the digital sounds?

What has been your experience with the piano? How long have you owned it? Are you happy you bought it?

The TransAcoustic is on my list if my wife will not agree to having both an acoustic piano and a digital piano in the apartment.


Hi,

I have a YUS1 Transacoustic2 for about 6 month.
I'm very happy with it. I always say it is the best numeric piano sound I've ever heard (but I have never tried a N2 nor N3).
The sound is better with additional speaker : the soundboard will make a large and present sound stage, but not very "precise" : the addtionnal speaker add this missing precision. (I wonder why Yamaha don't add speaker in transacoustic piano, maybe because it is not in the initial concept of "trans" ...)
the YUS1 is very powerful, (maybe too much powerful for my living room), a bit hard to control when you want to play pianissimo, but I think it is a Japanese sound caracterisc.

Concerning real string tune :
If the strings are very slightly not in tune, I think that you can clearly hear a problem if you play numeric piano at the same time as real piano : in that case you will hear a "beat", like a flanger effect. This effect is lower when mixing real piano and another kind of digital sound.
Mine were slightely out of tune a few month after purchase, and I could hear this "beat" when playing piano numeric+real at the same time, but also with the real piano alone (it can happen if 2 strings of the same note are not in tune) -> so the solution was to make a full tune of the piano anyway ...
You can adjust the pitch of the electronic piano sound with very accurate interval, but it is a global setting, not a note per note setting, so the interest of this setting is not really for out of tune piano ...

I fear we are out of topic ... If you have more questions, you can ask by private message.
Posted By: ando

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/29/19 02:57 PM

Olivier, what do you mean by "numeric piano"? I've never heard that term before.
Posted By: iLogic

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/29/19 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by oneilt130

Originally Posted by iLogic
Just ordered a white NU1X cool


Congrats! Those seem to be hard to find.


You know it! I’m expecting a month until delivery..

Originally Posted by pathguy
Originally Posted by iLogic
Just ordered a white NU1X cool

Outstanding--you'll love it!!!

I received a very small possible loud note--the first since the upgrade--but I honestly think it was due to user inexperience rather than the NU1X itself. blush

Very happy with the update.


Here’s hoping I do. I felt that I would with my CA98 and that didn’t last long haha. Hopefully, the NU1X is more up my alley.
Posted By: Frédéric L

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/29/19 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by ando
Olivier, what do you mean by "numeric piano"? I've never heard that term before.

Digital Piano.

Olivier du Nord (from North) is probably French... and « numérique » is the French word for digital.
Posted By: ando

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/29/19 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by Frédéric L
Originally Posted by ando
Olivier, what do you mean by "numeric piano"? I've never heard that term before.

Digital Piano.

Olivier du Nord (from North) is probably French... and « numérique » is the French word for digital.

I see, thanks, Frederic!
Posted By: Tyr

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/30/19 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by iLogic
I felt that I would with my CA98 and that didn’t last long haha. Hopefully, the NU1X is more up my alley.


My journey with the CA-98 lasted 3 or 4 weeks. wink

Quote
I received a very small possible loud note--the first since the upgrade--but I honestly think it was due to user inexperience rather than the NU1X itself.


A loud note happens every now and then on any instrument due to playing issues. I'm on day 8 without any loud note (which i played unintended. :D).

Posted By: iLogic

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/31/19 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by Tyr
Originally Posted by iLogic
I felt that I would with my CA98 and that didn’t last long haha. Hopefully, the NU1X is more up my alley.


My journey with the CA-98 lasted 3 or 4 weeks. wink

Quote
I received a very small possible loud note--the first since the upgrade--but I honestly think it was due to user inexperience rather than the NU1X itself.


A loud note happens every now and then on any instrument due to playing issues. I'm on day 8 without any loud note (which i played unintended. :D).



I also had it for about a month, the spouse couldn’t believe her ears when I told her it had to go... now, no matter what, I’m keeping the NU1X haha. And I’ll forget all about other digital pianos for a while (this is a lie).
Posted By: olivier du nord

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/31/19 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by ando
Olivier, what do you mean by "numeric piano"? I've never heard that term before.

I'm sorry : it's my bad "frenchglish"
'numeric piano' is a bad translation for "piano numérique" in french.
it means 'digital piano'
Posted By: iLogic

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/31/19 08:34 PM

Just got a call from the retailer today...

My NU1X will not reach Hamburg until end of July, and then begins the transport to the dealer here in Sweden and then from there, the last stretch to me. I’m hoping for a mid August delivery, but that is wishful thinking...

Oh the wait, the ever so long wait!!
Posted By: MarcBlux

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/31/19 09:41 PM

Do you know if the NU1x can be moved vericaly, on its side ?
That would be te only way to fit into the elevator ...

Did anyone compare with the P116 and the b1 ?
I really liked the action of the P116. The b1 not so much.

Thanks
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/31/19 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by iLogic
Just got a call from the retailer today...

My NU1X will not reach Hamburg until end of July, and then begins the transport to the dealer here in Sweden and then from there, the last stretch to me. I’m hoping for a mid August delivery, but that is wishful thinking...

Oh the wait, the ever so long wait!!

Not to make you feel worse, but even consider its manufacturing in Asia (Indonesia?), 11 weeks until delivery for an item already in production is pretty extreme. I've had Cisco optical switches custom-built, and between the time of getting a manufacturing slot on the assembly line in Taiwan and delivery in Washington DC was about 2 weeks, including customs clearance.
Posted By: Tyr

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 05/31/19 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by MarcBlux
Do you know if the NU1x can be moved vericaly, on its side ?
That would be te only way to fit into the elevator ...

Did anyone compare with the P116 and the b1 ?
I really liked the action of the P116. The b1 not so much.

Thanks


I wouldn't recommend that. It's unlikely that something could be broken but the chance is there. I would try to lift through the stairwell. It's not that huge so it should be doable (if it isn't more than 4 or 5 levels).
Posted By: Kawai James

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/03/19 12:55 AM

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Not to make you feel worse, but even consider its manufacturing in Asia (Indonesia?)...


I believe the NU1X is actually produced in China.
Yamaha manufactures a variety of upright pianos for the domestic Chinese market in China, so I expect the NU1X is produced in the same facility.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: iLogic

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/06/19 08:55 PM

This is the longest wait ever. And the waiting has only just begun................
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/06/19 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by iLogic
This is the longest wait ever. And the waiting has only just begun................

1 week down, 10 to go! Maybe you should get some thing to play on to tide you over while you wait smile
Posted By: iLogic

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/06/19 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by iLogic
This is the longest wait ever. And the waiting has only just begun................

1 week down, 10 to go! Maybe you should get some thing to play on to tide you over while you wait smile


Well, my 2 y.o. son got a toy piano with about 2 octaves of tiny keys and a few different sounds. It cost us around 5 bucks second hand.

I guess that’s more than nothing :P I don’t know where it is now though, he got it a few weeks ago which means it’s now lost forever in one of many closed boxes filled with stuff he’ll never use ever again but that is kept for some unexplainable reason.
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/06/19 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by iLogic
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by iLogic
This is the longest wait ever. And the waiting has only just begun................

1 week down, 10 to go! Maybe you should get some thing to play on to tide you over while you wait smile


Well, my 2 y.o. son got a toy piano with about 2 octaves of tiny keys and a few different sounds. It cost us around 5 bucks second hand.

I guess that’s more than nothing :P I don’t know where it is now though, he got it a few weeks ago which means it’s now lost forever in one of many closed boxes filled with stuff he’ll never use ever again but that is kept for some unexplainable reason.


Posted By: BradleyG

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/06/19 10:14 PM

As an update, I have yet to hear an unintended loud note since the update. I’ve had the sensation of pressing keys while the action is blocked, and what I hear is a note that seems to be about the same volume I would have expected it to be if the action had been properly reset first. Pretty great.

On the downside, I haven’t been able to get my Wifi adapter to work since updating. I mostly use a USB to Lightning cable these days however (for reduced latency when using iOS as a sound source), so it hasn’t been a hindrance.
Posted By: Tyr

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/06/19 10:46 PM

Cable is always better when playing over VSTs.

Quote
This is the longest wait ever. And the waiting has only just begun................


I know that feel. After i sold the Novus, i had to wait 4 weeks without a piano. I never thought i'm that so addicted to piano playing that i missed it so much. It was terrible. frown
Posted By: Pete14

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/15/19 12:16 AM

The fix eliminates the loud note, but a ‘normal’ note still plays.
In a real upright there would be no note under similar playing circumstances, so my question is, does this mean that the repetition rate of the NU1/X is now better than a real upright?
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/15/19 12:57 AM

Originally Posted by Pete14
The fix eliminates the loud note, but a ‘normal’ note still plays.
In a real upright there would be no note under similar playing circumstances, so my question is, does this mean that the repetition rate of the NU1/X is now better than a real upright?

That would be really cool if this were the case!
Posted By: MacMacMac

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/15/19 10:02 AM

On the page that lists the threads ... this thread (Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update) is marked as a "calendar event".
Does anyone know what that means?
Posted By: CyberGene

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/15/19 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by MacMacMac
On the page that lists the threads ... this thread (Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update) is marked as a "calendar event".
Does anyone know what that means?

Because it’s a significant event for Yamaha that needs celebration every year on that date.
Posted By: iLogic

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/15/19 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
On the page that lists the threads ... this thread (Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update) is marked as a "calendar event".
Does anyone know what that means?

Because it’s a significant event for Yamaha that needs celebration every year on that date.


grin laugh grin
Posted By: oneilt130

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/15/19 11:58 AM

Yep, this is up there with Bastille day and the 4th of July, the day NU1 and NU1X owners were liberated from the scourge that was known as the NU1 defect. smile
Posted By: williambonard

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/16/19 11:22 AM

Hi all,

I'm in the process of buying an NU1X (likely to put the deposit down in the next week or so) and am so delighted to hear that the latest firmware upgrade seems to have fixed the loud note issue.

I have played the NU1X quite extensively at the dealer and never encountered the loud note issue. It wasn't until I read about it on PW that I looked out for it when next playing it and low and behold, the loud note appeared... for some, perhaps the perception of this is psychological in nature (as well as physical) and I would assume the heightened nature of hearing the loud note is increased by one's psychological interpretation of it. Just my two cents on the matter...!

I imagine all of the NU1Xs that the dealer has in stock (one in the showroom and several in warehouse stock) all have the previous firmware installed so still have the loud note issue. I'm guessing that I'm going to end up with one of these instruments (as oppose to a newer model arriving with the latest firmware) and if I want the latest firmware installed, I'm probably going to have to do it myself. I don't see this particular dealer doing it...

My question to you all is: how do I even install this firmware? Do I need to download an application to my MacBook? Do I need to buy cables to connect the NU1X to my MacBook?

Your help and advice would be appreciated!
Posted By: Tyr

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/16/19 11:45 AM

Download the firmware. The file contains the firmware update and a pdf with instructions. It's very simple to install it using an USB Stick. The installation took around 2 minutes.
Posted By: BradleyG

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/16/19 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by williambonard
My question to you all is: how do I even install this firmware? Do I need to download an application to my MacBook? Do I need to buy cables to connect the NU1X to my MacBook?


First, download the firmware and instructions.

Next, you’ll need to put the firmware on a USB stick. If using a Mac, you need to format the usb stick to Fat32 format if it hasn’t been formatted that way already. Apple’s file system formats aren’t readable, and Macs can only read a subset of Windows fire system formats. In addition, you may need to ensure that your Mac isn’t writing any resource files, which it will do by default. I say “may”, because that was my experience updating the firmware on my Yamaha CP4. On my NU1X, I didn’t attempt this without first removing the resource files. I can provide some more in-depth detail on formatting and preventing resource files from being created at a later time if you need. It sounds more painful than it is.
Posted By: williambonard

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/16/19 08:26 PM

Thanks Tyr and BradleyG. I just downloaded the file from the Yamaha website and read the instruction guide contained - all seemed pretty simple and straightforward to me!
Posted By: Colin Miles

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/24/19 10:24 AM

This morning I went in to do the update for my dealer and discovered that in fact I had already done it a few months ago. Don't remember having tested the piano then but I did this morning. The good news is that the test piece I used previously where the loud note was very easy to produce was fine. However, after playing for some time it became clear that there was the occasional loud note, though it wasn't nearly as obtrusive as before and most people probably wouldn't notice it. Also, when it does occur it is NOT on trills or even fast passages. This piano may be a bad example and maybe regulation would help. Better news is that the N1X seems fine.
Posted By: U3piano

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/24/19 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by Colin Miles
Better news is that the N1X seems fine.


The n1x never had this problem.
Posted By: CyberGene

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/24/19 12:50 PM

I’m myself very skeptical about how fixable that issue is through software only. Unless I can confirm it myself I wouldn’t take other peoples word that it’s eliminated for granted smile I remember how I encountered it literally hundreds of times on my first day whereas other owners hadn’t ever encountered it. It depends a lot on the way one plays and on the repertoire.
Posted By: oneilt130

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/24/19 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by CyberGene
I’m myself very skeptical about how fixable that issue is through software only. Unless I can confirm it myself I wouldn’t take other peoples word that it’s eliminated for granted smile I remember how I encountered it literally hundreds of times on my first day whereas other owners hadn’t ever encountered it. It depends a lot on the way one plays and on the repertoire.


I understand your skepticism but there are several people on this site that have done the update and verified that the problem has been mitigated. It would be interesting if you ever come across a NU1X or NU1 that has been updated to get your thoughts on it.
Posted By: Gombessa

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/24/19 01:31 PM

I respectfully share Cybergene's skepticism. Even before the NU1X was released, I was running into the problem with the NU1 constantly, and plenty of people here claimed they never encountered the issue at all, and it must be a regulation or unit-specific issue. Now the tide has turned and everyone seems to notice it and make claims about the fix, but I'm waiting for the NU1 version of the firmware to be released so I can verify it for myself.
Posted By: Tyr

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/24/19 02:37 PM

So much mistrust here. smile

Til now, i'm still waiting for a loud note.
Posted By: Colin Miles

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/24/19 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by Gombessa
I respectfully share Cybergene's skepticism. Even before the NU1X was released, I was running into the problem with the NU1 constantly, and plenty of people here claimed they never encountered the issue at all, and it must be a regulation or unit-specific issue. Now the tide has turned and everyone seems to notice it and make claims about the fix, but I'm waiting for the NU1 version of the firmware to be released so I can verify it for myself.


Bearing in mind how easy it had been to produce a loud note on the NU1X that I played this morning and the fact that this update hasn't completely fixed it, I think that it could well be a regulation issue, possibly unit-specific. If I hadn't been aware of the problem when playing this morning I might well have not noticed it or put it down to my playing. So for most people it should not now be an issue.
Posted By: Gombessa

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/24/19 03:05 PM

I don't think there is any mistrust involved smile

Just a scrupulous and respectful understanding that the problem depends on specific timing and technique, and so isn't reliably reproducible for all people, depending on how they play.
Posted By: Colin Miles

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/24/19 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by Gombessa
I don't think there is any mistrust involved smile

Just a scrupulous and respectful understanding that the problem depends on specific timing and technique, and so isn't reliably reproducible for all people, depending on how they play.


So my technique is faulty, as it that of my dealer.
Posted By: oneilt130

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/24/19 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by Gombessa
I don't think there is any mistrust involved smile

Just a scrupulous and respectful understanding that the problem depends on specific timing and technique, and so isn't reliably reproducible for all people, depending on how they play.


I agree that some of us couldn't reliably reproduce the issue, count me as one of those people. I'm also one of those that when it did happen it wasn't a significant problem. That doesn't mean that it didn't happen, I did get the occasional random loud note, at least one or two times per practice session. After the update the random loud note has gone away. I don't think you need to be able to reproduce it on demand to notice that the update has changed the issue.

The limited data available at PW is 100% of the people reporting on this say the software updated resolved the issue. There are no reports of people applying the software update and saying the problem wasn't resolved. Despite this evidence there appear to be some people that refuse accept to accept the data because they can't believe that a software update could solve the problem. I could understand the skepticism before the update came out but now after it's been out for awhile and people have said it solves the problem I don't understand the skepticism on a logical level.
Posted By: Gombessa

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/24/19 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by oneilt130

The limited data available at PW is 100% of the people reporting on this say the software updated resolved the issue. There are no reports of people applying the software update and saying the problem wasn't resolved. Despite this evidence there appear to be some people that refuse accept to accept the data because they can't believe that a software update could solve the problem.

Huh....well, it seems to be me there are several reports that it's not entirely fixed (one of which was reported this very morning):

Originally Posted by pathguy

I received a very small possible loud note--the first since the upgrade--but I honestly think it was due to user inexperience rather than the NU1X itself. blush


Originally Posted by Colin Miles
This morning I went in to do the update for my dealer and discovered that in fact I had already done it a few months ago. Don't remember having tested the piano then but I did this morning. The good news is that the test piece I used previously where the loud note was very easy to produce was fine. However, after playing for some time it became clear that there was the occasional loud note, though it wasn't nearly as obtrusive as before and most people probably wouldn't notice it.


So I don't think we can say 100%. And the fact that some people feel it's fixed, and others feel it may be partially-fixed, or changed, IMO warrants a healthy dose of skepticism to those who quickly claim the problem is entirely eliminated.

That's all here, no one is bashing the NU1X, some of us just don't have enough data to be convinced, and certainly some feel otherwise. C'est la vie, no?
Posted By: CyberGene

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/24/19 05:31 PM

Well, don’t take it personal smile It’s not that I don’t believe you or don’t trust your opinion. It’s a skepticism that’s entirely based on the nature of the problem. There’s no way to predict with 100% certainty that hammer jam would happen with key only sensors. Yamaha stated that in their patent for AvantGrand. It’s not that after so many years they smacked on the forehead and said “ohh, we forgot to fix it”. I believe the issue can’t be fully fixed. Some situations can be alleviated and I even proposed a strategy for that. But I don’t think there’s a software “fix” per se. Yamaha themselves said it’s an improvement.
Posted By: Pete14

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/24/19 05:49 PM

You guys have terrible bedside manners. The NU1X has been tested for Loud Note Syndrome and the results are conclusive: there may or may not be an issue!
Posted By: Gombessa

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/24/19 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by CyberGene
Some situations can be alleviated and I even proposed a strategy for that. But I don’t think there’s a software “fix” per se. Yamaha themselves said it’s an improvement.


Add to that the fact that different Yamaha uprights behave differently, based on the specifics of their key/action geometries. I regularly play on 4-5 Yamaha U3s, and they all behave differently from the NU1. In particular, the range in which the action blocks on the U3 is significantly more narrow, and I almost never encounter a "silent note" on them. It makes me think that the firmware "fix" Yamaha has developed has to be customized to each model. Perhaps the NU1X/NU1 are similar, but any of the Yamaha upright silent pianos and Transacoustics may have different points at which the loud note is likely to appear, and the firmware may need to account for that lest an errant loud-note becomes and errant soft-note.
Posted By: oneilt130

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/24/19 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by CyberGene
Well, don’t take it personal smile It’s not that I don’t believe you or don’t trust your opinion. It’s a skepticism that’s entirely based on the nature of the problem. There’s no way to predict with 100% certainty that hammer jam would happen with key only sensors. Yamaha stated that in their patent for AvantGrand. It’s not that after so many years they smacked on the forehead and said “ohh, we forgot to fix it”. I believe the issue can’t be fully fixed. Some situations can be alleviated and I even proposed a strategy for that. But I don’t think there’s a software “fix” per se. Yamaha themselves said it’s an improvement.


I think we are arguing over the definition of fixed. I said in my review of the fix that there still seemed to be on occasion a slightly louder note. With my skill level I can't tell if it's the NU1X or my playing ability though I am leaning towards the NU1X. The frequency of that occurring is significantly less than the sudden loud note issue was before the update. It is so rare that I can't say with any certainty that it happens even once a week. Do I think the update is perfect, no. Do I think I only notice the rare slightly louder note if I go looking for it, yes. For me that counts as a fix for others it appears not so much.
Posted By: oneilt130

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/24/19 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by CyberGene
Well, don’t take it personal smile It’s not that I don’t believe you or don’t trust your opinion. It’s a skepticism that’s entirely based on the nature of the problem.


I don't take it personally. I purchased my NU1X fully aware of the issue and when the mere mention of it on PW would draw derision from many. The NU1X defect thread alone has many cursing posts about the NU1X and Yamaha. smile
Posted By: CyberGene

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/24/19 06:50 PM

The thing is I managed to play in a way that would avoid the issue. I could internalize in my hands an anticipation for the issue: not releasing the keys fully would certainly call for the issue, as are quiet trills. I even described how to play leggiero trills by tapping the keys rather than pressing them fully. That was part conscious, part unconscious process of adapting to the upright action. Coming from a triple sensor Kawai ES7 action I was accustomed to play any way I like - as on a grand piano - which is why I had a lot of loud notes in the first days. Then I adapted. And now I’m back to grand piano technique with the N1X which is why I’d be interested to try a NU1X with the “wrong” technique smile
Posted By: oneilt130

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/24/19 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by CyberGene
which is why I’d be interested to try a NU1X with the “wrong” technique smile


Hey, be nice. I prefer to think of it as alternate technique. smile
Posted By: Gombessa

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/24/19 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by oneilt130
Originally Posted by CyberGene
which is why I’d be interested to try a NU1X with the “wrong” technique smile


Hey, be nice. I prefer to think of it as alternate technique. smile

The same technique doesn't cause the issue to show up on many other acoustic uprights, so it's hard to say that it is "wrong or right" in an objective sense. Just that some types of playing will trigger it and others won't.
Posted By: Tyr

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/30/19 10:21 AM

My NU1X still works perfect, but all of a sudden, the C' key (third white key from the left) is hanging since yesterday. Not a big deal but Yamaha has long respond times for customer support here.
Posted By: CyberGene

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/30/19 10:26 AM

What do you mean hanging? Like not producing sound or it’s mechanical?
Posted By: Tyr

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/30/19 10:57 AM

The key doesn't return as fast as the other keys.
Posted By: Pete14

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/30/19 11:04 AM

How’s it hanging?
It it hanging a little to the left?
Posted By: spanishbuddha

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/30/19 11:16 AM

Is it in an air conditioned room or building, if not maybe the ambient temperature and humidity, which in Europe is a bit out of normal, has affected something? But anyway still worth call I suppose.
Posted By: Pete14

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/30/19 11:18 AM

I agree. Low temperature can have a devastating effect on it.
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/30/19 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by Pete14
How’s it hanging?
It it hanging a little to the left?

Pete14, You must have gotten lost. This is the "G Rated" family-orient piano channel. You must have been looking for the "other one." wink
Posted By: Pete14

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/30/19 01:12 PM

I’m talking about the ‘hanging key’ mentioned by Tyr. We need to have as much info as possible regarding its longitude, amplitude, and overall inclination in order to better assess the root-cause of the hanging.
I’m not sure what you’re referring to. blush
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/30/19 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by Pete14
I’m talking about the ‘hanging key’ mentioned by Tyr. We need to have as much info as possible regarding its longitude, amplitude, and overall inclination in order to better assess the root-cause of the hanging.
I’m not sure what you’re referring to. blush

Oh. Sorry to have insinuated you might have meant something else! wink
Posted By: Pinkiepie

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/30/19 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Pete14
How’s it hanging?
It it hanging a little to the left?

Pete14, You must have gotten lost. This is the "G Rated" family-orient piano channel. You must have been looking for the "other one." wink


LOL laugh
(But as long as it`s just hanging... blush)


@Pete
I`ve got a NU1x too.. I don`t know why (so please don`t ask)... but you have to be careful not to press any of the keys before the piano has finisihed its charging (ergo: until the blue light shines).
Otherwise, it can lead to problems in the mechanics.
Have you considered this?

Another hint:
switch it off and on again...if needed, multiple times. Somtimes this works too. grin
Posted By: johnstaf

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/30/19 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Pete14, You must have gotten lost. This is the "G Rated" family-orient piano channel. You must have been looking for the "other one." wink


Says the man with the X-rated N1!
Posted By: Tyr

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 06/30/19 10:05 PM

"Hanging" is the wrong term. The key is a bit sticky, not entirely but it doesn't return back immidiately as it should. I don't think it's a temperature problem. All other keys are working as expected.
Posted By: spanishbuddha

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 07/01/19 06:42 AM

Originally Posted by Tyr
"Hanging" is the wrong term. The key is a bit sticky, not entirely but it doesn't return back immidiately as it should. I don't think it's a temperature problem. All other keys are working as expected.

If you’re handy, and impatient, the NU1 and presumably the X is easy to open. Top first screws at back, front panel, be careful of tweeter wires which disconnect, keyboard cover lifts out held by two retaining pegs, small piece that acts as fall board has two or three screws. 10 minutes max. You need somewhere soft to stand the polished heavy pieces. I’m going from memory but had no problem doing it myself. There’s another metal bar holding the keys down I think, unscrew that. Then the action can be worked on. It should be easy to quickly determine if it’s the key sticking or the whippen/jack action. Like any piano the keys just lift straight out, front first then slide the capstan from under the whippen. Of course fixing the problem might need specific skill, tools or materials!
Posted By: Pinkiepie

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 07/01/19 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by Tyr
"Hanging" is the wrong term. The key is a bit sticky, not entirely but it doesn't return back immidiately as it should. I don't think it's a temperature problem. All other keys are working as expected.


I'm sorry, I had falsely thought Pete was the one with the "hanging" key...

So, Tyr: have you considered the loading time problem? I had a similar problem once. A single key did not react like the others...

My piano dealer had warned me that this problem seems to be more common. Therefore: Never play around the keys until the piano is loaded.

In any case, I wish you that the problem can be resolved quickly.
Posted By: CyberGene

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 07/01/19 12:39 PM

Playing keys while the piano is still booting up will only cause a temporary problem with velocities but it won't cause any mechanical problems. When booting up the piano assumes all the keys are in rest and measure their top position. If you play while that's being executed, wrong top position might be stored for a key and will react differently. If that happens you only need to restart he piano.
Posted By: Pinkiepie

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 07/01/19 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by CyberGene
Playing keys while the piano is still booting up will only cause a temporary problem with velocities but it won't cause any mechanical problems. When booting up the piano assumes all the keys are in rest and measure their top position. If you play while that's being executed, wrong top position might be stored for a key and will react differently. If that happens you only need to restart he piano.


Yes, and that is why I've been advising: turn the piano off and on again...(until the problem has disappeared).

But I am neither mechanic (nor engineer). So "maybe" I am wrong. grin
Posted By: Tyr

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 07/01/19 05:25 PM

It doesn't have anything to do with that:

Posted By: Gombessa

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 07/01/19 07:24 PM

That looks like a pure acoustic action regulation issue. Something in the action is binding and preventing the smooth return of the key. Tyr, if you haven't already, just contact Yamaha for warranty service, I bet it will be an easy adjustment/fix.
Posted By: Tyr

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 07/01/19 09:14 PM

I called my dealer today. He is contacting Yamaha for a technician.
Posted By: Fripp

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 07/05/19 09:45 PM

I'm considering buying either the NU1X or the N1X very soon and I wonder, assuming this issue occurred even when playing VSTs via MIDI on the NU1X, if it's fixed in that scenario as well?
Posted By: Gombessa

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 07/05/19 11:32 PM

If I understand the loud note issue correctly, it would happen in VSTs as well, because a "blocked" action would result in a false high velocity strike, which would be sent as a high value MIDI Note On. Presumably fixing it in the internal tone generator fixes the MIDI output as well, though that would have to be confirmed by an NU1X user. I'm still waiting for the firmware fix to be released for the NU1.
Posted By: williambonard

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 07/07/19 10:05 AM

Hi all,

Sorry to backtrack a little, but I want to revisit the infamous 'loud note' issue. What I would really want to know is whether this issue is purely down to a unit specific fault or the player's technique when playing. I only say this as I am sure there are a wealth of pianists on PW with varying levels of piano competency and skilled technique right from beginners to concert pianists.

I bought my NU1X yesterday after having spent four hours playing it at the dealer. In those four hours, I encountered the loud note issue once, twice at the absolute maximum. Now, I am a classically trained pianist so without sounding too big-headed, my technique is relatively good. I played all sorts on the piano yesterday ranging from Bach, Mozart, Chopin, Tchaikovsky, Brahms, Debussy... the list goes on. I struggled to find this 'loud note'. I even played some of the big Chopin Etudes (Op. 25 No. 12 'Ocean') which brought the loud note out a few times when I previously played the NU1X at a different dealer. Not once yesterday did the loud note appear.

As such, I'm wondering how much of this 'loud note' is caused by the actual piano itself or player technique. I suppose for a lucky few out there with good technique and an NU1X which has had the loud note issue resolved due to the latest firmware, they are living the dream! Let's hope I am a part of that cohort wink

Moving on, I am incredibly excited to have my NU1X delivered this week and as a classically trained pianist who vowed never to go back to any form of 'digital' piano, the NU1X blew me away.
Posted By: Herq

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 07/07/19 11:38 AM

The loud note problem seems to be a combination of the piano action, player technique and the firmware itself. You seem to have the technique spot on. When contacted by some, Yamaha suggested an action regulation. In my case, improving my technique helped, and the firmware update helped a lot.
What firmware version does your new piano have?
Posted By: williambonard

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 07/07/19 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by Herq
What firmware version does your new piano have?

I don't know yet. I forgot to check it while I was at the dealer but I highly suspect it's the previous version since v2.10 hasn't been out that long.

Having said that, I don't know exactly how long the NU1X was sitting at the showroom for although the dealer assures me it wasn't that long. But I don't think it was so new that it would have been shipped with v2.10 already installed. Then again, I could be wrong!

I'll let you know once it arrives later this week... I'm already quite intrigued to see what the outcome will be.
Posted By: Eienkei

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 07/12/19 05:53 PM

I can't believe I had missed this birthday present! Saw the update last night, woke earlier to install the new FW. Couldn't play more than a few minutes but trying to make the loud note was not successful, I am hyped for this weekend!
Posted By: Eienkei

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 07/18/19 05:38 PM

I am quite happy with the firmware update, although the key can feel lightened in repeated notes, it doesn't make the loud note.

There is also an interesting video about the firmware update here comparing before and after update (in Korean with English subs):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7rK1L4Lhew
Posted By: williambonard

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 07/21/19 05:42 PM

Hi all,

Quick update: my NU1X arrived on Friday, it shipped with v2.00 of the firmware installed and I am just about to update it to v2.10. Loud note issue happened for the first time today... the only piece it seems to happen on is the Chopin Scherzo in B-flat minor. Other than that, I am incredibly pleased with the piano!
Posted By: oneilt130

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 07/21/19 07:13 PM

Looking forward to your review.
Posted By: Andz

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 09/03/19 02:09 AM

I received my new Yamaha NU1X about a week ago, and it came with the latest firmware 2.10. No loud issue so far when trilling. I have had a couple of instances where I have had randomly accent notes, when playing faster pieces like Debussy: “Les collines d'Anacapri”. I suspect this is more of technique-related thing. My only other gripe is that my C2 (second C from the bottom), plays quite a bit louder than all other notes on the piano, and it is more difficult to play it softly. Has anyone else experienced this?
Posted By: Pete14

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 09/03/19 02:18 AM

Have you tried lowering the volume for that specific note via the app?
Posted By: Gombessa

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 09/03/19 02:21 AM

Originally Posted by Andz
My only other gripe is that my C2 (second C from the bottom), plays quite a bit louder than all other notes on the piano, and it is more difficult to play it softly. Has anyone else experienced this?


I recall CyberGene may have run into a similar issue issue with his NU1X?
Posted By: Andz

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 09/03/19 02:26 AM

You can do that?? Turn down one note?

I’ll see if I can find CyberGene’s post...

Posted By: BradleyG

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 09/03/19 02:33 AM

You can turn down a single note from the iOS app. Is that note extra loud consistently across power cycles though? When you start the piano up, it goes through a calibration phase. If you are touching any keys during calibration, you may end up with a miscalibrated key like this.
Posted By: Andz

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 09/03/19 02:42 AM

Not sure what you mean by ‘across power cycles’. I’m not sure if I have touched keys during the piano start up. If I have, and I have screwed up the calibration, is there anything I can do to recalibrate it? Or does perfect recalibration occur everytime you turn it on?
Posted By: Andz

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 09/03/19 02:50 AM

Oh I know what you mean now. Yes it is consistent across power cycles... I’ll try the app out and report back smile
Posted By: BradleyG

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 09/03/19 03:34 AM

It recalibrated every time you turn it on.
Posted By: CyberGene

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 09/03/19 06:02 AM

I had the problem with two keys being consistently louder which was actually the reason for returning it and upgrading to a N1X. Yamaha sent me a recalibration procedure though. On every boot the top position of the keys is auto-calibrated. However the manual calibration deals with the bottom position calibration. But it usually doesn’t need to be performed by the user. In my case it didn’t help though. If you like I can send you the procedure for you to try.
Posted By: Andz

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 09/03/19 06:17 AM

Ahh okay, yes that makes sense. That’s exactly the problem I’m having, so hopefully I can fix it. Yes, that would be great if you could send me the procedure to try. Did you try turning the key down with the App? Or is that not an effective solution?
Posted By: CyberGene

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 09/03/19 06:47 AM

Sent you a PM. I haven’t tried with the app though . I’m not sure what the app actually does. And I think the piano should be consistent without relying to external software. I’m not actually sure it was consistently louder. When doing the test with pressing simultaneously two adjacent keys to compare MIDI velocities it wasn’t always louder. Which made me think there must be something wrong with the sensor. That and the “regular” loud note issue came as too much to tolerate to me smile What key is playing louder? In my case it was the D and E above middle C and at the time my daughter wanted me to play to her a kids song that started on those notes and that aggravated it to me laugh
Posted By: EssBrace

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 09/03/19 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by Andz
My only other gripe is that my C2 (second C from the bottom), plays quite a bit louder than all other notes on the piano, and it is more difficult to play it softly. Has anyone else experienced this?


Is the loud note there when using headphones? If just through speakers it could be a room node, especially as it’s a low note. Moving the piano (sometimes by just a small amount) might help.
Posted By: Andz

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 09/03/19 07:14 AM

Yeh I agree with you that you shouldn’t have to reply on the App to be able to use the piano and eliminate the problem. I can’t try the App just yet anyway because I don’t even have the right cables. For me, it’s C (2 ledger lines below bass clef). It’s not that I can’t play it softly, but it’s difficult to. If I play the note with ‘moderate’ force, it sounds about 50-70% louder than the surrounding notes. If I play it with strong force, it is much louder than the surrounding notes. It’s a consistent issue too. I can understand why you traded yours in... the combination of the infamous loud note issue (which I have never experienced with firmware 2.10), plus 2 centrally located loud notes (D and E) - that would have driven me mad!! Overall I’m happy with the piano- it’s a delight to play.. My Kawai GE30 (baby grand) had far more issues (and awful false beats) 😒
Thanks for sending the instructions through. I’ll see how they go 🙂
Posted By: CyberGene

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 09/03/19 07:47 AM

In the thread I created when owning the NU1X we also discussed a common procedure for ensuring the key is (or isn’t) louder: play two keys together with one finger and observe MIDI velocities on a MIDI monitor. In my case all keys were consistently within 2-3 steps whereas the two offending keys were around 10 louder than C and F correspondingly.
Posted By: Andz

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 09/03/19 08:00 AM

That’s a good suggestion. I’ll plug it into my laptop and see what happens...
Posted By: Andz

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 09/03/19 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by EssBrace
Is the loud note there when using headphones? If just through speakers it could be a room node, especially as it’s a low note. Moving the piano (sometimes by just a small amount) might help.



I’ll test this theory out too. Haven’t actually listened through headphones yet (except for in the shop haha). I’m starting to think it is a problem with the hammer regulator for that note (or the optical sensor).
Posted By: Andz

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 09/04/19 08:54 AM

I was able to turn the note down via the App today, which actually saves the setting to the piano (which is good because you don’t need to connect the app every time). The only thing is that the note now sounds distinctly more tinny in timbre (compared to surrounding notes). I’ve decided to contact the dealer and see if he can send a technician out to see if it is a fault with the hammer or sensor.
Posted By: Gombessa

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 09/04/19 03:27 PM

That's probably the right call. You very quickly found the problem with per note volume editing. The volume of the note changes but the timbte does not, so you can have a note that that is struck with the force of f but plays at the volume of p.
Posted By: Andz

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update - 09/09/19 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by CyberGene
In the thread I created when owning the NU1X we also discussed a common procedure for ensuring the key is (or isn’t) louder: play two keys together with one finger and observe MIDI velocities on a MIDI monitor. In my case all keys were consistently within 2-3 steps whereas the two offending keys were around 10 louder than C and F correspondingly.


@CyberGene I finally got around to performing this measurement with a midi monitor. It turns out the offending note was between 10 and 15 steps louder than adjacent notes (when played with 1 finger). And with all other notes on the piano, they were within 2-3 steps of each other. I have a Yamaha technician coming out next week to try and fix the problem. Thanks again for your help with this smile
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