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Posted By: Abdol KAWAI has implemented key-off velocity - 05/01/19 02:19 PM
On my MP7SE, the slower I release the key the lower is the volume of the hammer fallback samples.

This is awesome! As far as I know, I don't remember if Yamaha synths have key off velocity implemented. Not sure about Roland and the rest. I should go and check it out tonight. I'm sure MOTIF XF does not send note release velocity midi commands.

Super happy about how engineers in KAWAI have paid attention to and meticulously made the MP series!
Posted By: CyberGene Re: KAWAI has implemented key-off velocity - 05/01/19 02:24 PM
Yamaha synths are not pianos so it’s understandable if they haven’t implemented a key off velocity although I’d guess they support aftertouch which is more relevant for a synth sound.

However Clavinova pianos and AvantGrand pianos support much more than key off velocity: they support continuous key position measuring which allows for half-damper and that’s more advanced and realistic simulation. Key off velocity is just a small subset of that.
Clavinova has only 3 sensor set per keys, 2 for the velocity measure, one for the damper. No continuous key position. But the time from the velocity sensors to the damper sensor can modify the release of the sound.
Posted By: CyberGene Re: KAWAI has implemented key-off velocity - 05/01/19 02:38 PM
Originally Posted by Frédéric L
Clavinova has only 3 sensor set per keys, 2 for the velocity measure, one for the damper. No continuous key position. But the time from the velocity sensors to the damper sensor can modify the release of the sound.

Right, I stand corrected. It’s the AvantGrand pianos that send continuous key position. However Clavinova pianos support key off velocity and Yamaha call that “Smooth release”.
Posted By: Abdol Re: KAWAI has implemented key-off velocity - 05/01/19 03:16 PM
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Yamaha synths are not pianos so it’s understandable if they haven’t implemented a key off velocity although I’d guess they support aftertouch which is more relevant for a synth sound.

However Clavinova pianos and AvantGrand pianos support much more than key off velocity: they support continuous key position measuring which allows for half-damper and that’s more advanced and realistic simulation. Key off velocity is just a small subset of that.


Great points CyberGen! I did not say the synths don't have it. The eXpanded Articulation has the key-off element but I am not sure if it responds to the release velocity or not (louder the quicker you release the key). But I am sure that the key-off MIDI command cannot be sent.

One other scenario I tried yesterday was: If I slightly reduce the pressure on a key (almost halfway) and play the same the key again I get a sustained sample played without holding the sustain pedal (means that the hammer has not been fallen on the strings when I retriggered the sample).


I mainly want to know the feedbacks about CP88 and CP4. According to Phil Clendeninn, the CP series is built by the synth department not the digital piano department. I am not familiar with AvantGrand series. They are very fine and wonderful digital pianos but my humble guess is they are in a different league (correct me if I'm wrong).
Posted By: siros Re: KAWAI has implemented key-off velocity - 05/01/19 04:18 PM
Roland also has it, at least since PHA 4.
I believe it is common in 3 sensor keyboards now.
Posted By: Gombessa Re: KAWAI has implemented key-off velocity - 05/01/19 04:26 PM
I thnk Kawai has had this for a while, and it should include key-off samples, key-off velocity and fallback volume. But yes, it's good to see additional realism added to DP behavior.

What I think is missing from almost all DPs--sympathetic resonance activation on sensor-1 depression (rather than MIDI-Note-On).
Posted By: Nip Re: KAWAI has implemented key-off velocity - 05/01/19 04:47 PM
I think it's cool how Kawai made reactivation of damper, if very quick it emulates strings still ringing in sound board, and old resonance is partly re-established, as I recall. So very short release of damper is what I am talking about.

Even having the simpler MP7SE there is half damper with settings. Even though I wish for it to start later, how it affect part damping is nice.

I just had mine for two days now, so many settings to discover.

Recently got rid of a CLP-535 and overly impressed by Kawai and how you can fine tune just about everything.

It's been too long since playing acoustic piano to remember how key off felt.
Posted By: Gombessa Re: KAWAI has implemented key-off velocity - 05/01/19 05:06 PM
Originally Posted by Nip
I think it's cool how Kawai made reactivation of damper, if very quick it emulates strings still ringing in sound board, and old resonance is partly re-established, as I recall. So very short release of damper is what I am talking about.


I may be wrong, but I believe this is referred to as "re-pedaling" as a pianistic technique.
Posted By: CyberGene Re: KAWAI has implemented key-off velocity - 05/01/19 05:14 PM
Re-pedaling works on every digital piano ever since I remember them.
Posted By: Nip Re: KAWAI has implemented key-off velocity - 05/01/19 05:41 PM
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Re-pedaling works on every digital piano ever since I remember them.


Among those I've had since the 80's, CLP-50, P85, YDP-223 and CLP-535 - only 535 had string resonance emulation as I recall.

Default settings for sympathetic resonance were rather high on MP7SE, just about all presets, so it became obvious every little thing you did - so maybe didn't notice before about re-pedaling on 535.
Posted By: CyberGene Re: KAWAI has implemented key-off velocity - 05/01/19 06:14 PM
I think we’re talking about different effects
- re-pedaling
- damper resonance
- string resonance

Which one do you mean?
Tested the MIDI output of my Dexibell Vivo P3 and realized that implements key-of velocity that varies as the key is released faster or slowly.
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: KAWAI has implemented key-off velocity - 05/01/19 11:51 PM
But there remains the question: What will you do with the key-release data?
Posted By: arc7urus Re: KAWAI has implemented key-off velocity - 05/02/19 09:34 AM
Originally Posted by DPAfficionado
Tested the MIDI output of my Dexibell Vivo P3 and realized that implements key-of velocity that varies as the key is released faster or slowly.

We need to be precise with these descriptions...

The Dexibell sends out a *single* note-off velocity value when a key is released. So, each key press will produce a single note-off velocity message. Thus, the note-off velocity is not variable but a (different) constant value for each key press. This feature is supported by most DPs with three-sensors.

Continuous key-off velocity detection is not supported by the MIDI 1.0 specification. The AvantGrands (at least) report the position of each key using a sequence of aftertouch/pressure MIDI events, but this is not standard. Such events are used in some controllers to measure the pressure level while the key is pressed, not to measure key position.
Posted By: arc7urus Re: KAWAI has implemented key-off velocity - 05/02/19 09:41 AM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
But there remains the question: What will you do with the key-release data?

Depends on the DP or VST and the instrument you are trying to simulate. For example, on the Kawai CAs, the resonance, mechanical "noises" and the sound generated when a key is released depend on the velocity. Pianoteq does the same. Not sure if sample-based VSTs also make use of such data, but they could definitely use different release samples and adjust the resonance accordingly. And key-release velocity data is even more important to add expressiveness to non-percussive instruments, such as strings, wind or synths.
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: KAWAI has implemented key-off velocity - 05/02/19 09:50 AM
On an acoustic piano how would noises be influenced by key release velocity? It's puzzling to me how and why Kawais makes use of key release velocity.

For non-piano sounds (synths, etc) ... sure. But who buys a high-end piano to play such? That would be like off-roading in a Lexus instead of a Jeep.
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
On an acoustic piano how would noises be influenced by key release velocity? It's puzzling to me how and why Kawais makes use of key release velocity.

For non-piano sounds (synths, etc) ... sure. But who buys a high-end piano to play such? That would be like off-roading in a Lexus instead of a Jeep.


Thuds?
Originally Posted by ShyPianist
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
On an acoustic piano how would noises be influenced by key release velocity? It's puzzling to me how and why Kawais makes use of key release velocity.

For non-piano sounds (synths, etc) ... sure. But who buys a high-end piano to play such? That would be like off-roading in a Lexus instead of a Jeep.


Thuds?

Thuds. Ugh. How pianistic! Someday, someone will bioengineer an artificial cow and make sure it farts. Since real cows fart. A lot. laugh
Posted By: arc7urus Re: KAWAI has implemented key-off velocity - 05/02/19 10:26 AM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
On an acoustic piano how would noises be influenced by key release velocity? It's puzzling to me how and why Kawais makes use of key release velocity.

The Kawais use the key-off velocity (at least) for the sound generation and mechanical noises. The velocity changes the release envelope and the release sample/sound as well. So, the sound generated when a key is released fast or slow is different.

The mechanical action noises on an acoustic action are indeed a function of the velocity. Try to get hold of an acoustic piano action model and observe how the mechanism resets depending on the velocity of the key release. Or just damp the strings on an acoustic grand with your hand and check the different mechanical noises with different velocities...
Posted By: JoBert Re: KAWAI has implemented key-off velocity - 05/02/19 12:42 PM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
On an acoustic piano how would noises be influenced by key release velocity?

The velocity of the key release directly influences the velocity with which the damper is lowered onto the string (assuming the sustain pedal is not pressed).
So a quick release lowers the damper quickly, a slow release lowers it slowly.
The sound of the string being damped is different depending on how quick or slow the damper is lowered onto it.
DPs can attempt to model this varying sound if they know the release velocity.

This can only be modeled as an approximation however, because of the differences between acoustics and (most current DPs):

On acoustic pianos, the dampening of the string finishes at the moment of the full key release.
On a DP however, it starts a the moment of the full key release.

Imagine a very very slow key release, let's say so slow that between the moment when the damper begins to touch the string and the moment the key is fully released (i.e. the damper sits fully on the string) a whole second passes. During that second, you will hear the acoustic effect of the damper touching (and dampening) the string more and more, until the sound finally ceases at the end of that second (or even a bit earlier), which is the exact moment when the key is released fully.

On a DP, the release velocity is also measured during this second just before the key release, but he note off message that makes use of this information is only generated at the moment of full key release. So if the DP would try to model the same key release sound of the string being damped more and more over the course of the a whole second, the DP would have to model this sound effect during the second that follows the full key release - while on the acoustic it would happend during the second before the full key release.

So using the key release velocity to generate different sounds for the key release is actually not optimal. Well, in real life, key releases are of course usually much faster, so it probably won't be noticeable, but still, there is a deficiency inherent to this method.

The AvantGrands (and likely also some of Yamaha's acoustic silent systems) are currently the only DPs that I know of who try to address this deficiency by re-purposing the after touch MIDI event (as was discussed elsewhere - and don't confuse this with the normal pressure-sensitivity after touch and also not with the same term used to regulate acoustic pianos).
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: KAWAI has implemented key-off velocity - 05/02/19 05:26 PM
With rare exceptions the sound from a digital is so-so ... but we can tweak the damper release noises with just a bit of software.
Surely the latter is more pressing than the former, right?

That's akin to the house being on fire ... but we have 10 minutes left on this Game of Thrones episode.
Surely the latter is more pressing than the former, right?

Mixed up priorities. frown
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
That's akin to the house being on fire ... but we have 10 minutes left on this Game of Thrones episode.
Surely the latter is more pressing than the former, right?

Yes! Absolutely more pressing! thumb grin
Posted By: Gombessa Re: KAWAI has implemented key-off velocity - 05/02/19 06:15 PM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
With rare exceptions the sound from a digital is so-so ... but we can tweak the damper release noises with just a bit of software.
Surely the latter is more pressing than the former, right?


A lot of these seem to be last-1% issues. The AG supports release velocity and "smooth release" samples, but I've not yet heard from anyone that they make an appreciable difference in the realism of the playing. The NV-10 doesn't support release velocity at all, since it uses a single sensor to determine key-on/off. But that hasn't stopped numerous advanced pianists from enjoying its playability and tone.

My own take--if it's easy to do, then by all means add these bells and whistles, as they do make the simulation more real. But we should try not to overstate their importance, because in the end, they really don't make or break the experience (and for me, Garritan CFX doesn't utilize any of these advanced key-off features since the NV-10 doesn't send them, but the pure tone is just so much more realistic than any hardware DP even without the extras).
Posted By: arc7urus Re: KAWAI has implemented key-off velocity - 05/02/19 06:33 PM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
With rare exceptions the sound from a digital is so-so ... but we can tweak the damper release noises with just a bit of software.
Surely the latter is more pressing than the former, right?

That's akin to the house being on fire ... but we have 10 minutes left on this Game of Thrones episode.
Surely the latter is more pressing than the former, right?

Mixed up priorities. frown


The sound itself (as a waveform) is not the major issue on a good digital piano or on a sample-based VST. DPs and VSTs can mimic quite well the *recording* of an acoustic. However, the reproduction of the sound is light-years away from being able to match an acoustic instrument. A very good example of how abysmal sound reproduction is are the Kawai Aures and the Yamaha Transacoustic acoustic hybrid/silent pianos. Both can be played in pure acoustic mode and also in digital mode. The latter mutes the strings and uses transducers to resonate the soundboard and reproduce the (digital) sound. If you have the chance to play these pianos, set the volume level in digital mode to match the acoustic volume level. Then switch back and forth between acoustic mode and digital mode. The cabinet is the same, the soundboard is the same... but the digital mode is simply unable to remotely sound like the acoustic mode...
Posted By: Gombessa Re: KAWAI has implemented key-off velocity - 05/02/19 07:25 PM
Originally Posted by arc7urus
If you have the chance to play these pianos, set the volume level in digital mode to match the acoustic volume level. Then switch back and forth between acoustic mode and digital mode. The cabinet is the same, the soundboard is the same... but the digital mode is simply unable to remotely sound like the acoustic mode...


Odd, for me these silent pieces are the only ones that make me double take to see if I'm playing in acoustic or digital mode. And the time will will certainly be different, jury least because the digital or trying to emulate a 9ft concert grand and not the same cabinet it's housed in.
Posted By: arc7urus Re: KAWAI has implemented key-off velocity - 05/02/19 08:38 PM
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by arc7urus
If you have the chance to play these pianos, set the volume level in digital mode to match the acoustic volume level. Then switch back and forth between acoustic mode and digital mode. The cabinet is the same, the soundboard is the same... but the digital mode is simply unable to remotely sound like the acoustic mode...


Odd, for me these silent pieces are the only ones that make me double take to see if I'm playing in acoustic or digital mode. And the time will will certainly be different, jury least because the digital or trying to emulate a 9ft concert grand and not the same cabinet it's housed in.

I had to chance to play a K500 and a full-size upright Yamaha in quiet area of a shown room for half an hour, so my experience is limited to that. So, due to your experience you may have a different and more informed opinion that mine. But my experience was that they both sounded very good in acoustic mode as expected, but in digital mode (with the acoustic mode muted) they did not sound much more "realistic" than the CA98 that was also in the room (and which is my current DP). In digital mode they sounded good for a DP but also like a recording played through speakers and not like a live instrument anymore. However, if the acoustic sound was muffled (instead of muted) and played simultaneously with the digital mode, the spatiality and overall quality of the sound increased dramatically. I guess there is still a lot to go until a couple of transducers is able to replicate how the soundboard reacts to the vibration of 230 strings...
Posted By: Abdol Re: KAWAI has implemented key-off velocity - 05/03/19 02:08 PM
I just tested the pedal on my MP7SE and it responds to velocity too. The quicker I press the pedal with my foot the louder the damper sounds.
Posted By: arc7urus Re: KAWAI has implemented key-off velocity - 05/04/19 12:27 PM
Originally Posted by Abdol
I just tested the pedal on my MP7SE and it responds to velocity too. The quicker I press the pedal with my foot the louder the damper sounds.

That is expected since the damper pedal in most DPs reports continuous readings. Note that the pedal sensors are not measuring velocity but the position (from off to fully depressed). Each pedal position change produces an individual midi controller message.
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: KAWAI has implemented key-off velocity - 05/04/19 12:52 PM
The pedal may be continuous. It's just a pot.

But the MIDI values are not continuous. Mine has only about six values in large steps ... not 0, 1, 2 ... 127.

Setting MIDI aside ... I wonder whether the piano's internal sound respond to the pedal in a continuous fashion?
Posted By: Abdol Re: KAWAI has implemented key-off velocity - 05/04/19 12:55 PM
I tested my MOTIF XF and it does not respond to key-off release velocity!!! Really really surprised. The key-off sample in AWM2 architecture is attached to the velocity and not the release speed.

There is no way for me to simulate the KAWAI implementation of note-release velocity.

That being said, the logical conclusion (the CP series are built by the synth department in Yamaha according to Phil) since the CP series use the same architecture, it is very very likely that CP88 also doesn't have the key-off release velocity implemented (at this point I'm 99% sure).
Posted By: arc7urus Re: KAWAI has implemented key-off velocity - 05/04/19 04:40 PM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
The pedal may be continuous. It's just a pot.

But the MIDI values are not continuous. Mine has only about six values in large steps ... not 0, 1, 2 ... 127.

Setting MIDI aside ... I wonder whether the piano's internal sound respond to the pedal in a continuous fashion?

The Kawai CA78/98 and the Casio PX-560 map the pedal readings over the full midi range (0-127). But just on the right/damper pedal. The middle and left pedals are basic on/off switches - these report 127 when pressed and 0 when released.

On the CA (and pianoteq) quickly releasing the pedal produces sound that is quite different than when the pedal is released slowly. The damping (and half pedaling) effect are thus dependent on the pedal position and velocity. The simulated (and annoying) mechanical noise is also different. However, this effect can probably be emulated with less than 127 steps...
Posted By: arc7urus Re: KAWAI has implemented key-off velocity - 05/04/19 04:47 PM
Originally Posted by Abdol
I tested my MOTIF XF and it does not respond to key-off release velocity!!! Really really surprised. The key-off sample in AWM2 architecture is attached to the velocity and not the release speed.

There is no way for me to simulate the KAWAI implementation of note-release velocity.

That being said, the logical conclusion (the CP series are built by the synth department in Yamaha according to Phil) since the CP series use the same architecture, it is very very likely that CP88 also doesn't have the key-off release velocity implemented (at this point I'm 99% sure).

But the motif is a synth with a synth action. Why should it support key-off velocity? It supports channel pressure, as expected from a synth (although Yamaha is known not to add aftertouch/pressure sensing on several of its keyboards).

By the way the cp88/73 do NOT support note-off velocity. Just download the manual and check the midi implementation table on the last pages.
Posted By: CyberGene Re: KAWAI has implemented key-off velocity - 05/04/19 05:01 PM
As I previously commented, Yamaha support key off velocity in their Clavinova pianos and even better continuous approach on AvantGrand pianos which is logical. A Motif or CP piano will usually be used in a gig or in a more modern studio context rather than for classical music, so there’s no need for key off because it won’t even be heard. Kawai on the other hand don’t support key off velocity in their most expensive and pianistic digital piano to date, the Novus NV10 and that’s slightly counter intuitive.
Posted By: Gombessa Re: KAWAI has implemented key-off velocity - 05/04/19 05:56 PM
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Kawai on the other hand don’t support key off velocity in their most expensive and pianistic digital piano to date, the Novus NV10 and that’s slightly counter intuitive.


Yes. But understandable given how the technology works. Kawai does support it in their standard triple sensor DPs, but as you uncovered in your patent search, the optical hammer sensor scheme utilized by Kawai cannot determine key position other than "slightly depressed" and fully released (no velocity).
Posted By: Abdol Re: KAWAI has implemented key-off velocity - 05/05/19 12:40 PM
Originally Posted by CyberGene
As I previously commented, Yamaha support key off velocity in their Clavinova pianos and even better continuous approach on AvantGrand pianos which is logical. A Motif or CP piano will usually be used in a gig or in a more modern studio context rather than for classical music, so there’s no need for key off because it won’t even be heard. Kawai on the other hand don’t support key off velocity in their most expensive and pianistic digital piano to date, the Novus NV10 and that’s slightly counter intuitive.


The Rhodes, guitars and many other voices in MOTIF series they all have key-off samples. In the synthesis architecture, there is a mode called key-off. When a sample is set to this mode, it will be triggered only after the keys are released. Unfortunately, it is not responding to the release velocity which would add to the realism.
Posted By: arc7urus Re: KAWAI has implemented key-off velocity - 05/05/19 03:26 PM
Originally Posted by Abdol
The Rhodes, guitars and many other voices in MOTIF series they all have key-off samples. In the synthesis architecture, there is a mode called key-off. When a sample is set to this mode, it will be triggered only after the keys are released. Unfortunately, it is not responding to the release velocity which would add to the realism.

It seems you would like to have different key-off samples depending on the release velocity. But, afaik, the AWM2 only allows one such insert per voice. In any case, the volume of the key-off (which is triggered on Release) should be proportional to the volume of the Decay section of the envelope, which can be controlled by the aftertouch. So, you already have a key-off sample whose volume is a function of the velocity (i.e. pressure before release).
Posted By: Abdol Re: KAWAI has implemented key-off velocity - 05/05/19 04:55 PM
Originally Posted by arc7urus
Originally Posted by Abdol
The Rhodes, guitars and many other voices in MOTIF series they all have key-off samples. In the synthesis architecture, there is a mode called key-off. When a sample is set to this mode, it will be triggered only after the keys are released. Unfortunately, it is not responding to the release velocity which would add to the realism.

It seems you would like to have different key-off samples depending on the release velocity. But, afaik, the AWM2 only allows one such insert per voice. In any case, the volume of the key-off (which is triggered on Release) should be proportional to the volume of the Decay section of the envelope, which can be controlled by the aftertouch. So, you already have a key-off sample whose volume is a function of the velocity (i.e. pressure before release).


arc7urus I'm speaking about velocity. key-off velocity depends on the release speed. Which is not implemented in the AWM2 architecture. You can have as many as key-off samples. Indeed you can set all the 8 elements in a voice to key-off, but if you go to the Amplitude section in VOICE EDIT mode, the key-off does not respond to the release velocity. The key-off velocity is attached to the touch velocity.

XA Control type is not an insert. As I said, the amplitude (volume) of the key off sample will not respond to the after-touch. It only responds to the initial touch.
Posted By: arc7urus Re: KAWAI has implemented key-off velocity - 05/06/19 06:56 PM
Originally Posted by Abdol
Originally Posted by arc7urus
Originally Posted by Abdol
The Rhodes, guitars and many other voices in MOTIF series they all have key-off samples. In the synthesis architecture, there is a mode called key-off. When a sample is set to this mode, it will be triggered only after the keys are released. Unfortunately, it is not responding to the release velocity which would add to the realism.

It seems you would like to have different key-off samples depending on the release velocity. But, afaik, the AWM2 only allows one such insert per voice. In any case, the volume of the key-off (which is triggered on Release) should be proportional to the volume of the Decay section of the envelope, which can be controlled by the aftertouch. So, you already have a key-off sample whose volume is a function of the velocity (i.e. pressure before release).


arc7urus I'm speaking about velocity. key-off velocity depends on the release speed. Which is not implemented in the AWM2 architecture. You can have as many as key-off samples. Indeed you can set all the 8 elements in a voice to key-off, but if you go to the Amplitude section in VOICE EDIT mode, the key-off does not respond to the release velocity. The key-off velocity is attached to the touch velocity.

XA Control type is not an insert. As I said, the amplitude (volume) of the key off sample will not respond to the after-touch. It only responds to the initial touch.

But isn't the volume of the key-off sample proportional to the amplitude/volume of the ADSR envelope? Or does the Motif play the key-off sample always the same volume?

If you release a key slowly, you will get a sequence of aftertouch events with low value before the note-off. If you release a key quickly, the aftertouch events will have a high value. Something like this:
Slow release: note-on, pressure 110, 120, 110, 90, 70, 60, 50, 20, note-off
Quick release: note-on, pressure 110, 120, 100, note-off

This is the usual sequence of events on keyboards with aftertouch. So, even if the Motif does not have note-off/release velocity (as most synths), the release velocity can be partially inferred from the sequence of pressure events before the note-off. In the first example, the low value pressure events will reduce the amplitude of the envelope. In the second, the envelope will end up with a high amplitude. The engine should now play the key-off sample with an amplitude that fits the current envelope. The result would be quite similar to having note-off velocity. Is the AWM2 architecture working differently?
Posted By: Abdol Re: KAWAI has implemented key-off velocity - 05/06/19 07:04 PM
I doubt it but I will verify it when I get home. I am 100% sure that in MOXF, MODX series the key-off samples do not respond to aftertouch and they only respond to the initial touch velocity.
Posted By: arc7urus Re: KAWAI has implemented key-off velocity - 05/06/19 07:37 PM
Originally Posted by Abdol
I doubt it but I will verify it when I get home. I am 100% sure that in MOXF, MODX series the key-off samples do not respond to aftertouch and they only respond to the initial touch velocity.

If that is the case, now I fully understand the problem smile
Posted By: Abdol Re: KAWAI has implemented key-off velocity - 05/07/19 04:07 AM
Originally Posted by arc7urus
Originally Posted by Abdol
I doubt it but I will verify it when I get home. I am 100% sure that in MOXF, MODX series the key-off samples do not respond to aftertouch and they only respond to the initial touch velocity.

If that is the case, now I fully understand the problem smile


I tried it on my MOTIF XF and it seems to be the same. In the control parameters, it is possible to add after-touch to the element-level (amplitude of the element). But in the Amplitude tab there is no way to attach the velocity to aftertouch or sensitivity to aftertouch.

I set the aftertouch value to a -32 but I believe it only controls the amplitude of the element while the XA control is set to Normal (XA Control defines the behavior of the element). If the element is a key-off element, it seems aftertouch is not in effect. The value of the velocity comes directly from the initial touch/press. Both in MOTIF and MO series.
Thanks for this post! I hadn’t checked for updates since I bought my Kawai DP.
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