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Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today?

Posted By: thomscot

Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/24/19 07:55 AM

Hello,

I have been thinking about this for a month now, and I'd like to get some opinions.

I want to buy a new digital piano (an acoustic is not an option because of apartment/noise rules). I have tried a few in a store. In the beginning I was thinking of the NU1X, but then I noticed that flaw (the notes playing louder) and after researching online and discovering that that's actually a known issue I gave it up. For that much money, that's not a flaw I could accept. Besides, I decided I preferred a grand piano action anyway.

So I moved to trying the N1X. I liked the action, but wasn't convinced about the sound. Maybe it's the speakers being on top and playing at a mid-low volume. Then I tried N2, and I liked it better. Both the feeling of the keys and the sound.
The N3 is not an option, for budget and size anyway.

The point is, doing some research I found out that indeed the N2 has been in the line for like ... 10 years or so? They already X-ed the N1 and N3, so it's reasonable that is only a matter of time before they upgrade the N2.

So my question is, does it make sense to buy an N2 now? Retail price here in Japan (I live in Tokyo) is around 1 million yen (about 9k USD). I'm considering though maybe something used. I found a couple of options that look good and are about 7k, if they are still available.

I'm puzzled. I think that if I like it and feel good about it I should just get it, and if N2X is released tomorrow, whatever. I have been playing on a shitty piece of plastic for too long now. But I'd like some opinions.

Also, it would be nice to hear some impressions of comparisons between N1X and N2. I could not find many threads with that specific comparison, but maybe I just didn't look well enough.

Thank you!

PS. A little background: I'm a classically-trained pianist, not a professional, but I have been playing since I was little. Back home I have an acoustic upright but when I moved abroad, for budget and apartment rules etc, I just bought a mid-lower end digital piano. Decent enough to play but a whole different level from the avant grand series. Finally I got some money and I want to do a serious upgrade.
Posted By: CyberGene

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/24/19 08:11 AM

If you will be playing through speakers and you liked the N2, there’s nothing wrong. The most important thing when choosing a piano is what you feel is best to you. The N1X has great binaural sample for playing through headphones. Also there’s more advanced resonance modeling whereas in N2 there are only sampled resonances. If you didn’t feel any difference, it doesn’t matter. The N1X has Bluetooth, can save WAV files on a thumb drive and can transmit/receive audio through its USB interface. N2 has tactile vibration in the keys though, which supposedly adds realism when playing through headphones but some people seem to find it rather gimmicky. N2 also has ivorite surfaces whereas N1X has acrylic. That’s a rather arguable feature since some of the most expensive grands still use acrylic key surfaces.
Posted By: Harpuia

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/24/19 08:15 AM

If you use speakers most of the time, get an N2. N2 plays very well out of the box using the internal speakers. It gives a better experience as a package.

If you use the headphone most of the time, get an N1X.

If you are into the VST kind of stuff, N1X might also be a better option. The audio interface helps line in external sounds into the speaker.

N2 has the Ivorite key top and TRS. I own an N3 for a year and I do like both of them. I think they add to the whole experience. But it’s just me.
Posted By: thomscot

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/24/19 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by CyberGene
If you will be playing through speakers and you liked the N2, there’s nothing wrong. The most important thing when choosing a piano is what you feel is best to you. The N1X has great binaural sample for playing through headphones. Also there’s more advanced resonance modeling whereas in N2 there are only sampled resonances. If you didn’t feel any difference, it doesn’t matter. The N1X has Bluetooth, can save WAV files on a thumb drive and can transmit/receive audio through its USB interface.


I think I would play it mostly through the speakers yes. However, the connectivity thing is another point I forgot to mention in my original post. I do not do that much recording, but sometimes I do. Could you tell me more about the connectivity of the N2? It's just midi? I mean, besides the obvious convenience of a USB connection over having to plug your computer through a cable, anything else on N2 connectivity's vs N1X's?
Posted By: Kawai James

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/24/19 08:52 AM

Hello thomscot, welcome to the forum.

I would be inclined to go for the N2, especially if you are able to find a good second hand instrument.

Regarding connectivity, the more modern NU1X and N1X models feature a built-in USB audio interface. This allows the instrument to be connected to a computer (or even an iPad) to send/receive both MIDI *and* digital audio. The latter is significant in that it's now possible to capture the NU1/N1X's sound on the computer digitally, or for sounds generated by a computer to be played through the instrument's speaker system.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: thomscot

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/24/19 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by Kawai James
Hello thomscot, welcome to the forum.

This allows the instrument to be connected to a computer (or even an iPad) to send/receive both MIDI *and* digital audio. The latter is significant in that it's now possible to capture the NU1/N1X's sound on the computer digitally, or for sounds generated by a computer to be played through the instrument's speaker system.

x


Hello James, thanks for the reply.

Forgive my ignorance, but can you be more specific in what is that the N2 *cannot* do, if plugged to a computer using a cable? You cannot capture the digital audio from the piano on the computer? And what does this exactly mean?

I think mostly I'd be interested in being able to record piano parts (I mean with the native sound of the N2 of course) and play around with those with some software etc.
Posted By: Kawai James

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/24/19 09:13 AM

Hello thomscot,

Originally Posted by thomscot
Forgive my ignorance, but can you be more specific in what is that the N2 *cannot* do, if plugged to a computer using a cable? You cannot capture the digital audio from the piano on the computer? And what does this exactly mean?


The N2 lacks a USB to Host connector, so it's not possible to connect the instrument directly to a computer. This can be overcome using a relatively inexpensive USB to MIDI IN/OUT adaptor, however this will only transfer MIDI data. In order to record audio from the N2 into a computer, or play the computer's sound through the N2's speakers, you will need to use the instrument's Line IN/OUT connectors. The N2 does feature a USB to Device connector, however I believe this is only capable of recording and playing back MIDI data, not audio.

Originally Posted by thomscot
I think mostly I'd be interested in being able to record piano parts (I mean with the native sound of the N2 of course) and play around with those with some software etc.


Yes, this should still be possible with the N2, however it will require a few additional cables, whereas on the NU1X/N1X everything is handled digitally by a single USB cable. The N2's native sound is pretty good, however you may find that using software instruments running on the computer may yield a higher quality/more realistic sound.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: JoBert

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/24/19 09:17 AM

If we are talking about buying a new (non-used) unit, for me it would depend on if I were planning to use the built-in sound engine or were planning to use it only as a MIDI-controller for VSTs. For the latter purpose, it would obviously be fine, but personally I wouldn't get a new N2 with its 10+ years old engine if I wanted to play mainly with that internal engine.
For a used N2, the picture may be different, if I could get a good deal.

And seeing that the N1X hasn't even arrived in all stores yet, I doubt that the N2X will be released "tomorrow".

Also, I hope this is OK as a plug here, but are you aware of the Kawai Novus NV10? This piano also has a true acoustic action (even with damper weights, which the Yamahas lack). Price wise it should be comparable to a new N2.
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/24/19 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by JoBert
And seeing that the N1X hasn't even arrived in all stores yet, I doubt that the N2X will be released "tomorrow".

And it's taking its sweet time! mad
Posted By: CyberGene

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/24/19 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by thomscot
I think mostly I'd be interested in being able to record piano parts (I mean with the native sound of the N2 of course) and play around with those with some software etc.

To record your performance as audio from a N2, the only way is to use an audio cable from the instrument aux out jacks into a computer or audio recorder. While that will certainly work and will yield relatively good results, it's nevertheless an analog audio connection and will introduce noise. On the NU1X and N1X you can record digitally in two ways: either plugging in a USB thumb drive and recording straight in WAV format (uncompressed audio) or through the USB cable to a computer. In both ways the recorded audio is digitally transmitted hence no noise is introduced and there's no redundant DAC -> ADC conversion. For instance I recorded my audio clips in my YouTube channel on a USB thumb drive. Note that while N2 would also allow for you to plug a thumb drive and record your performances on it, only MIDI is supported, so you won't be able to listen to your performance on another device since MIDI only contains data about what keys you pressed, etc. but there's no audio. The MIDI file can be replayed back on the N2 for you to listen through its speakers, or can be played back on a computer using software pianos but there's no guarantee it will sound any good since the velocity mapping and piano behavior at all might be different and you as a pianist aurally adapt instantaneously to what you hear on the N2 while playing it and that would be different if you would have played another piano.

Also, some people prefer using software pianos. They control them through MIDI and then route back the audio to the piano so that the sound is coming over the piano speakers. In the case of N2 you will have to use again only analog audio cable, however there's noise floor on the N2 that won't allow analog audio that's bellow certain threshold level and that makes it almost unusable for that purpose because the tails of notes will be cut off. In later models they allowed for this to be switched off, however not on the N2. Even better, on the N1X you can transmit audio digitally from the software to the piano through USB without any noise or noise floor cut off.
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/24/19 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by CyberGene
In the case of N2 you will have to use again only analog audio cable, however there's noise floor on the N2 that won't allow analog audio that's bellow certain threshold level and that makes it almost unusable for that purpose because the tails of notes will be cut off. In later models they allowed for this to be switched off, however not on the N2.

Wow! Great info. That belongs on a FAQ!
Posted By: CyberGene

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/24/19 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by CyberGene
In the case of N2 you will have to use again only analog audio cable, however there's noise floor on the N2 that won't allow analog audio that's bellow certain threshold level and that makes it almost unusable for that purpose because the tails of notes will be cut off. In later models they allowed for this to be switched off, however not on the N2.

Wow! Great info. That belongs on a FAQ!

I believe it's been a common knowledge across the digital piano forum but on the other hand we live in a balloon here, knowing everything (how modest!) and forgetting that new members might be entirely unaware of these things and even old members are not mandated to read every thread over here smile (I recently proved that by creating a thread about new Roland pianos because I missed the same thread create a few days earlier... sigh)
Posted By: bSharp(C)yclist

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/24/19 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by thomscot
Hello,

So I moved to trying the N1X. I liked the action, but wasn't convinced about the sound. Maybe it's the speakers being on top and playing at a mid-low volume. Then I tried N2, and I liked it better. Both the feeling of the keys and the sound.
The N3 is not an option, for budget and size anyway.



I think you answered it right there. I have an N2, but have not yet had a chance to try an N1X and compare. I really like the action and the sound as well, even though it's an older sound engine. I'll sometimes blend it with Pianoteq.

I don't have the noise gate issue on my N2, where an incoming signal will get cut off when it's below a certain threshold. Or at least I've never been able to produce it.

One issue with an N2 is the pedal bloom effect, where the sound is slightly increased when applying the pedal. However, you really have to listen for it. Any other person, or someone listening to a recording of the playing, will probably never notice.
Posted By: thomscot

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/25/19 01:28 AM

Originally Posted by Kawai James


The N2 lacks a USB to Host connector, so it's not possible to connect the instrument directly to a computer. This can be overcome using a relatively inexpensive USB to MIDI IN/OUT adaptor, however this will only transfer MIDI data. In order to record audio from the N2 into a computer, or play the computer's sound through the N2's speakers, you will need to use the instrument's Line IN/OUT connectors. The N2 does feature a USB to Device connector, however I believe this is only capable of recording and playing back MIDI data, not audio.



Thanks for the info. By the way, I see you're in Japan? Do you have any recommendation where to go and try some pianos? I usually go to a store in Ginza just because is nearby my office. I know about Ochanomizu but I mostly go there to check guitars. For pianos I never found much (maybe I just don't know about it).
Posted By: thomscot

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/25/19 01:47 AM

Everyone, thanks a lot for the answers and info. I didn't expect so many so fast! Thanks.

Originally Posted by JoBert
are of the Kawai Novus NV10? This piano also has a true acoustic action (even with damper weights, which the Yamahas lack). Price wise it should be comparable to a new N2.


Yes that came up in my research, but I never tried one. I'd be curious to do that of course. Somehow I'm fond of Yamaha (for digital only) but well, if the Kawai better fits my taste so be it. Maybe Kawai James (not sure how to tag users, or if at all possible) could suggest where to go in Tokyo to try one out.
Posted By: Kawai James

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/25/19 02:29 AM

Originally Posted by thomscot
Thanks for the info. By the way, I see you're in Japan? Do you have any recommendation where to go and try some pianos? I usually go to a store in Ginza just because is nearby my office. I know about Ochanomizu but I mostly go there to check guitars. For pianos I never found much (maybe I just don't know about it).


Yes, I’m based in Japan, although it has been a while since I lived in Tokyo. Ochanomizu is great for guitars and band instruments such as stage pianos, however perhaps less so for pianos.

Kawai has a large store along Omotesando which should have the NV10 available to play-test.
Here is an access map:
http://shop.kawai.jp/omotesando/access/index.html

On the occasions that I have visited the store, I usually walked down the hill from Harajuku station, however if you’re coming from Ginza, I expect you can take the metro there in 15 minutes or so.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: thomscot

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/25/19 03:14 AM

Originally Posted by Kawai James

Kawai has a large store along Omotesando which should have the NV10 available to play-test.
Here is an access map:
http://shop.kawai.jp/omotesando/access/index.html


Thanks. Actually shortly after my post I just remembered that a few years ago I visited exactly that store in Omotesando. I guess I will go have another look. Thanks again.
Posted By: Kawai James

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/25/19 03:41 AM

No problem, happy to help.

I hope you enjoy your visit.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: navindra

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/25/19 04:11 AM

I think you're in for a treat with the NV10. Very pleased with the onboard speaker sound myself.

Binaural sound on the Yamahas is mind blowing and a game changer, but I'm allergic to headphones and much prefer playing on speakers at low volume instead.
Posted By: thomscot

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/25/19 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by navindra
I'm allergic to headphones and much prefer playing on speakers at low volume instead.


I feel pretty much the same way. BUT, I have yet to try that binaural thing.
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/25/19 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by navindra
but I'm allergic to headphones

Originally Posted by thomscot
I feel pretty much the same way. BUT, I have yet to try that binaural thing.

There are hypoallergenic headphone pad covers for those who are allergic.
Posted By: percy64

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/25/19 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by thomscot


I feel pretty much the same way. BUT, I have yet to try that binaural thing.

Irrespective of whether you use headphones it is probably worth while listening to both N2 and N1X through headphones to get a better comparison of the in built piano sounds. The only real downside of buying the N2 now would be older piano sound. If you don't have a strong preference for the newer sound then the N2 would be a good purchase. I think everyone is assuming there will be an N2X sometime but it may still be a year or two away.

As others have said it is well worth considering the NV10
Posted By: Pete14

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/25/19 12:15 PM

Yamaha might be following forums like this one, after all.
Think of how the original AvantGrand was released in a very straightforward and somewhat expected manner: N3 followed by N2 and then N1.
Now it’s a mess, but is this intentional to throw us ‘leakers’ off?
We’re not as insignificant -in the grand scheme of things- as some might assume. The first thing prospective buyers (of anything) do is to research online; as a matter of fact, many queries lead directly to us (nerds), and soon to cynicism, skepticism, and outright anger towards the evil empires. Newcomers swiftly learn the true ways of ‘innovation’ and inflated MSRP’s; they also learn to follow on new release cycles and wait-it-out (for the most part) either to get the new model or a discount on outgoing models.
They’re watching, I tell you!
Posted By: Pete14

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/25/19 06:51 PM

You guys, why aren’t we all over this -they’re watching us- conspiracy theory?
Isn’t this what we live for? laugh
Posted By: Gombessa

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/25/19 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by Pete14
You guys, why aren’t we all over this -they’re watching us- conspiracy theory?
Isn’t this what we live for? laugh


Honestly, if we were that important to them, they'd be doing a lot more to interact with and manipulate the forums. I have a feeling Kawai James is only here because he wants to be and has convinced his bosses that it's worth Kawai's time. I don't get the sense he gets called into the manager's meeting to prove he's made his quota of weekly PW posts smile
Posted By: MacMacMac

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/25/19 07:58 PM

And when you say that "they" are watching us... you must surely mean "Russians" and "Putin", right? smile
Originally Posted by Pete14
You guys, why aren’t we all over this -they’re watching us- conspiracy theory?
Isn’t this what we live for? laugh
Posted By: Chrispy

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/25/19 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by Pete14
Yamaha might be following forums like this one, after all.
...
They’re watching, I tell you!


If they are, they certainly haven't reached out about my N1X that's coming apart at the seams!
Posted By: Pete14

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/25/19 08:19 PM

And how are we certain that James isn’t an undercover agent? grin
Just recently he provided coordinates to a member (also a spy?) looking for a place to rendezvous in Tokyo. This could be part of a massive plot to axe the VPC1!
Posted By: Gombessa

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/25/19 08:37 PM

Hidden surveillance is one thing. Putin monitoring PW I can stomach. Setting up an international rendezvous with an informant, totally par for the course.

Originally Posted by Pete14
axe the VPC1!


But NOW we're officially off-topic!
Posted By: MacMacMac

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/25/19 10:04 PM

But ... we're frequently off topic! smile

(Somebody should open a new topic called "Off-Topic".)
Posted By: redfish1901

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/26/19 02:31 AM

My theory on the N2 is that it's actually getting discontinued, because it is the slowest seller among the AvantGrands.

N1 has the appeal that it's the cheapest model, so if one is interested in the best action DP, it's a good choice.

N3 has the appeal that it's shaped like a grand, and people who would normally buy grands buy them. I saw it on a cruise ship once--that seemed like a perfect use case.

N2 is a betweener, which seems like a good idea, but it seems the appeal is limited. And because it's so dated now it's forcing people who might have bought the N2 into buying the N3X.

I wish I had better data on sales, but searching youtube videos, I see more owners of N1 and N3 than the N2.
Posted By: Gombessa

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/26/19 02:48 AM

Originally Posted by redfish1901
My theory on the N2 is that it's actually getting discontinued, because it is the slowest seller among the AvantGrands.

I wish I had better data on sales, but searching youtube videos.


Interesting. I recall seeing more N2 owners than N1/N3...but who know's what's going to happen to the Yamaha lineup. The N1X does seem to be making quite a splash! If you can back up your sales projections I think that would go a long way to justifying your claim.
Posted By: johnstaf

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/26/19 03:45 AM

I'd buy the N2 because it's smaller than the N1. I think the N3 is hideous. I'd buy an N2 instead of waiting for the N2X if I got a good deal.
Posted By: johnstaf

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/26/19 04:46 AM

Ok maybe not hideous, but I don't happen to like that shape of digital piano.
Posted By: thomscot

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/26/19 06:02 AM

Originally Posted by johnstaf
I'd buy the N2 because it's smaller than the N1.


Same for me actually. In my case not the N3 but I don't really like the esthetic of the N1X. It looks weird to me. That's probably the least important thing, but it kind of matters too. After all it's something that's in front of your eyes every day. (To be honest I don't love the N2 shape either, but better than the N1).
Posted By: jve

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/26/19 06:03 AM

Originally Posted by redfish1901
My theory on the N2 is that it's actually getting discontinued, because it is the slowest seller among the AvantGrands.

This is what my Yamaha dealer tells me -- the N2 will be discontinued, there will be no N2X. I have no reason to doubt him, for instance, he told me about the forthcoming N1X back in August, although he had several unsold N1 units in stock.

He did point out that the N2 has been a very slow seller in Europe, so maybe he is referring to the European market when he says the N2 will be discontinued. As always, these are only rumours – so take them with a pinch of salt...
Posted By: JJHLH

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/26/19 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by jve
Originally Posted by redfish1901
My theory on the N2 is that it's actually getting discontinued, because it is the slowest seller among the AvantGrands.

This is what my Yamaha dealer tells me -- the N2 will be discontinued, there will be no N2X. I have no reason to doubt him, for instance, he told me about the forthcoming N1X back in August, although he had several unsold N1 units in stock.

He did point out that the N2 has been a very slow seller in Europe, so maybe he is referring to the European market when he says the N2 will be discontinued. As always, these are only rumours – so take them with a pinch of salt...


If true that’s very disappointing. I was looking forward to trying the N2X.
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/26/19 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by jve
Originally Posted by redfish1901
My theory on the N2 is that it's actually getting discontinued, because it is the slowest seller among the AvantGrands.

This is what my Yamaha dealer tells me -- the N2 will be discontinued, there will be no N2X.

If true, Yamaha might want to look at ways to lower the cost of the N3X. Right now, there is a factor of 2 difference in the price between the N1X and N3X.
Posted By: Pete14

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/26/19 03:42 PM

....but Yamaha has lowered the price for the N3X; the problem is they don’t tell us.
Here’s how it works: the inflated MSRP remains; however, the dealer can go much lower than that depending on the sucker setting foot in his store. As the dealer greets you he is also sizing you up; if he determines that you haven’t got a clue about the scheme (scam) you will not get the -new- lower price. If he determines that you are aware of this and perhaps even more informed than him in terms of specs and what these truly mean in practical terms (gimmicks from essentials), then he will give you the way-lower price and even throw in a complimentary towel.

For some perspective, when the N2 first came out I was quoted $7,500 out the door. The MSRP was $15,000. You can rest assured that many paid close to the MSRP.
Posted By: 36251

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/26/19 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by redfish1901
My theory on the N2 is that it's actually getting discontinued, because it is the slowest seller among the AvantGrands.

N1 has the appeal that it's the cheapest model, so if one is interested in the best action DP, it's a good choice.

N3 has the appeal that it's shaped like a grand, and people who would normally buy grands buy them. I saw it on a cruise ship once--that seemed like a perfect use case.

N2 is a betweener, which seems like a good idea, but it seems the appeal is limited. And because it's so dated now it's forcing people who might have bought the N2 into buying the N3X.

I wish I had better data on sales, but searching youtube videos, I see more owners of N1 and N3 than the N2.


Not producing an N2X would be good news for N2 owners like myself. It would help keep their value.
Posted By: bSharp(C)yclist

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/26/19 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by 36251
Originally Posted by redfish1901
My theory on the N2 is that it's actually getting discontinued, because it is the slowest seller among the AvantGrands.

N1 has the appeal that it's the cheapest model, so if one is interested in the best action DP, it's a good choice.

N3 has the appeal that it's shaped like a grand, and people who would normally buy grands buy them. I saw it on a cruise ship once--that seemed like a perfect use case.

N2 is a betweener, which seems like a good idea, but it seems the appeal is limited. And because it's so dated now it's forcing people who might have bought the N2 into buying the N3X.

I wish I had better data on sales, but searching youtube videos, I see more owners of N1 and N3 than the N2.


Not producing an N2X would be good news for N2 owners like myself. It would help keep their value.


And I was just going to say that if it's true, then I'm glad I didn't wait for an N2X smile
Posted By: redfish1901

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/26/19 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist


And I was just going to say that if it's true, then I'm glad I didn't wait for an N2X smile


This is all pure speculation without any basis in fact. It's very much possible that Yamaha might release an N2X tomorrow!
Posted By: Emery Wang

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/26/19 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by thomscot
Everyone, thanks a lot for the answers and info. I didn't expect so many so fast! Thanks.

Originally Posted by JoBert
are of the Kawai Novus NV10? This piano also has a true acoustic action (even with damper weights, which the Yamahas lack). Price wise it should be comparable to a new N2.


Yes that came up in my research, but I never tried one. I'd be curious to do that of course. Somehow I'm fond of Yamaha (for digital only) but well, if the Kawai better fits my taste so be it. Maybe Kawai James (not sure how to tag users, or if at all possible) could suggest where to go in Tokyo to try one out.

Hi Thomscot. As part of your NV10 research, might I suggest you click on JoBert's YouTube link? He has many excellent recordings on his NV10, and it will give you an idea of the tone and dynamic range of the instrument. I think his rendition of "Married Life" from the Pixar movie is especially well done.
Posted By: bSharp(C)yclist

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/26/19 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by redfish1901
Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist


And I was just going to say that if it's true, then I'm glad I didn't wait for an N2X smile


This is all pure speculation without any basis in fact. It's very much possible that Yamaha might release an N2X tomorrow!


I said that when I bought the N2 in September 2017 smile
Posted By: Osho

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/27/19 12:37 AM

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by JoBert
And seeing that the N1X hasn't even arrived in all stores yet, I doubt that the N2X will be released "tomorrow".

And it's taking its sweet time! mad



I will wait until the Summer NAMM at least to see if there is N2X announcement. You may still have to wait for months after that to actually get one though.

Another option is to buy N2 from a dealer now and then upgrade to N2X (some of the dealers in US give full value for the trade in for digital piano in 2-3 years). You lose the ability to negotiate the price for N2X somewhat - but get both instant gratification and upgraded digital piano. And, you get more time to save money smile.

Osho
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/27/19 12:47 AM

Originally Posted by Osho
I will wait until the Summer NAMM at least to see if there is N2X announcement.

Why would you want to buy an N2X when you already have and NV10?
Posted By: Osho

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/30/19 05:16 AM

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Osho
I will wait until the Summer NAMM at least to see if there is N2X announcement.

Why would you want to buy an N2X when you already have and NV10?

I meant, if I was in the market for a hybrid right now, I wouldn't pull the trigger until Summer NAMM.

I am very happy with NV10 and have no plans to change it smile.

Osho
Posted By: thomscot

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/30/19 05:40 AM

Hi all, and thanks again for the helpful discussion.

Some updates.

Over the weekend I went to the Kawai store and tried the NV10. Then I went back to Yamaha store and tried again the N1X and the N2.

The NV10 is a very nice instrument, no doubt. I loved some of the features like the ability to adjust the action etc.

However, when I tried again the Yamaha they convinced me more. And over N1 max and N2 the winner was again N2. I just felt better playing it, and preferred the sound.

I have to say, this time I also tried them with headphones, and on this test N1X won by (quite) far. I had to take off the headphones at first because I thought I did not plug them in correctly. It was that good.

That being said, is not that the N2 sucked with headphones. It was still pretty good, and since I prefer by far to play without headphones the fact that is not as good as the other is not a deal breaker.

On a separate note: I may have found a used N2 for about 6.7k usd. It was made in 2013 and the conditions seem excellent. Only problem is: it’s quite far and I cannot try it. I have to rely on picture and what the dealer says (that is, there is no much difference with new). The store offers 3 months warranty so I would expect that there aren’t major flaws. My question is simple. What do you think? Is it a good price (if the instrument is indeed in excellent conditions)? Is 2013 too “old”? Although I suppose 2013 or 2018 nothing really change from a specs point of view. Right?

I’d like to have your opinions. Thanks.
Posted By: MacMacMac

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/30/19 10:06 AM

@thomscot: Check the prices paid listings. The N2 mostly shows selling prices in the $8000 - $9000 range when new. So $6700 for a five-year-old N2 is WAY too much. These things depreciate like rocks in quicksand. You could offer much less and see what happens.

Also you don't really know the condition of the piano. A dealer claim that it's "like new" means that it still has 88 keys. (Woweeeee!) That's not much to go on.

And you'll have no warranty on a used piano. If the dealer offers a store warranty, just ignore it. These are nearly worthless if you live near the dealer's shop, and completely worthless if you live hours away.
Posted By: arc7urus

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/30/19 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by thomscot
Hi all, and thanks again for the helpful discussion.

Some updates.

Over the weekend I went to the Kawai store and tried the NV10. Then I went back to Yamaha store and tried again the N1X and the N2.

The NV10 is a very nice instrument, no doubt. I loved some of the features like the ability to adjust the action etc.

However, when I tried again the Yamaha they convinced me more. And over N1 max and N2 the winner was again N2. I just felt better playing it, and preferred the sound.

I have to say, this time I also tried them with headphones, and on this test N1X won by (quite) far. I had to take off the headphones at first because I thought I did not plug them in correctly. It was that good.

That being said, is not that the N2 sucked with headphones. It was still pretty good, and since I prefer by far to play without headphones the fact that is not as good as the other is not a deal breaker.

On a separate note: I may have found a used N2 for about 6.7k usd. It was made in 2013 and the conditions seem excellent. Only problem is: it’s quite far and I cannot try it. I have to rely on picture and what the dealer says (that is, there is no much difference with new). The store offers 3 months warranty so I would expect that there aren’t major flaws. My question is simple. What do you think? Is it a good price (if the instrument is indeed in excellent conditions)? Is 2013 too “old”? Although I suppose 2013 or 2018 nothing really change from a specs point of view. Right?

I’d like to have your opinions. Thanks.

The tangible advantage of the N2 is the speaker system. But if you plan to play with headphones some of the time, then the N1X is definitely the better option since it includes the latest sound engine with the CFX binaural samples and the improved resonance model. This is a significant change to the specs in case you are not planning to use external VST software. The N2 also lacks Smart Pianist app support and BT Audio support, but these are rather minor details. On top of this, the N1X would be a whole new instrument with complete warranty. The N2 would be a 6 year-old used instrument with a too high price tag.

Or did you find any differences between the action of the N1X and N2 when playing over headphones?
Posted By: Pete14

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/30/19 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by MacMacMac
@thomscot: Check the prices paid listings. The N2 mostly shows selling prices in the $8000 - $9000 range when new. So $6700 for a five-year-old N2 is WAY too much. These things depreciate like rocks in quicksand. You could offer much less and see what happens.

Also you don't really know the condition of the piano. A dealer claim that it's "like new" means that it still has 88 keys. (Woweeeee!) That's not much to go on.

And you'll have no warranty on a used piano. If the dealer offers a store warranty, just ignore it. These are nearly worthless if you live near the dealer's shop, and completely worthless if you live hours away.

+1
Posted By: Gombessa

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/30/19 12:51 PM

$7k is a bit high for used.

The N2 does have TRS, but after trying it, it felt like a cell phone buzzing on the keyboard. The servo response is very primitive and I immediately dismissed it as a gimmick after using it.
Posted By: bSharp(C)yclist

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/30/19 01:45 PM

If I had to sell my N2 today, I'd probably start at 5K. I'd be lucky if I got that as a trade in value if I wanted to buy an N2X (if it ever becomes available).
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/30/19 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by redfish1901
Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist


And I was just going to say that if it's true, then I'm glad I didn't wait for an N2X smile


This is all pure speculation without any basis in fact. It's very much possible that Yamaha might release an N2X tomorrow!

I was checking on the N1X again at my local Yamaha dealer in the Washington DC area and asked them about the N2X. Without any prompting, they said to me that they had heard that there would not be an N2X, and that the N2 itself would be discontinued at some point. They pointed out the N2 is still being listed as an available product, but implied that might not be for too long. So there is another datapoint towards the imminent demise of the N2 series - so now this rumor has arisen on both sides of the Atlantic. frown Anyone who wants a new N2 might consider buying it sooner rather than later.

In any case, the N1X that I've bugged them about for the last two months finally did arrive in their store yesterday! So I will go try it out myself in a few days, and cut a check shortly thereafter for either it or the Kawai NV10 (which I've already tried). smile

Excited. I smell a hybrid coming for me (finally!) grin
Posted By: MacMacMac

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/30/19 06:59 PM

When you ask any salesman about something they don't sell or that is not available ... they have a ready-made story about how that product is not good, or is being discontinued, or something to the effect that "you don't want that and what you really want is <SOMETHING I SELL GOES HERE>".

So the N2 is being discontinued, says the salesman.
Unsubstantiated drivel, says Mac3.

How do you know when a salesman is lying ... ? smile
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/30/19 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by MacMacMac
When you ask any salesman about something they don't sell or that is not available ... they have a ready-made story about how that product is not good, or is being discontinued, or something to the effect that "you don't want that and what you really want is <SOMETHING I SELL GOES HERE>".

So the N2 is being discontinued, says the salesman.
Unsubstantiated drivel, says Mac3.

How do you know when a salesman is lying ... ? smile

What I actually asked was: "Has the N1X arrived yet?" (Long history on this question which I had been asking at this particular store for 2 months already, always with the answer of "no, but soon.") Then when the answer for the first time came back affirmative, I asked, "will I be able to try it side-by-side with the N2 and N3X?" And the answer was, "you can try it next to the N3X, but we sold our last N2 a month ago and are not expecting to restock it. We've heard that Yamaha won't be release an N2X and will be discontinuing it soon, although if you want one, we can still order one for you since it is still being listed on the Yamaha website as available for purchase - you just won't be able to try it in the store."

Not that I really need to try it in the store. I did try the N2 in that particular store back in December already. I just had wanted to a side-by-side comparison with the N1X to see how far the sound improved since the N1/N2 generation of 10 years ago.
Posted By: Gombessa

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/30/19 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
They pointed out the N2 is still being listed as an available product


Isn't that ALWAYS the case before a product gets replaced? The N3 was available just before the N3X was released, same with the N1. In fact, both N1 and N3 are still listed as "current" products even though the N1X and N3X are out. But the NU1 isn't, which suggests some difference.

And when the N3X was released, the same line was recited by Yamaha reps and shops as you've just heard--"N1X and/or N2X? Why would there ever be such things? The N3X is all there is."

I would take any such statements with a huge grain of salt.
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 04/30/19 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
They pointed out the N2 is still being listed as an available product


Isn't that ALWAYS the case before a product gets replaced? The N3 was available just before the N3X was released, same with the N1. In fact, both N1 and N3 are still listed as "current" products even though the N1X and N3X are out. But the NU1 isn't, which suggests some difference.

And when the N3X was released, the same line was recited by Yamaha reps and shops as you've just heard--"N1X and/or N2X? Why would there ever be such things? The N3X is all there is."

I would take any such statements with a huge grain of salt.

Well clearly, we have to watch this thread in the coming months. smile I just provided a second datapoint. There are now two datapoints. Clearly that isn't definitive.
Posted By: thomscot

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 05/01/19 02:25 AM

Thank you all again.

I agree with pretty much everyone, I also had the feeling that that kind of price is too high for a 6 years old instrument. Notice that it might also be a matter of a not so favorable USD/JPY rate. For who hasn’t followed the whole thread I’m based in Japan. A new N2 at the official Yamaha store (and everywhere else pretty much) is about 1.140.000 jpy, the price of the used one I mentioned 750k jpy. I still think it’s high.

Anyway, yesterday I went again at the store and I was quite convinced in the end I’d just get a new one, with the idea that the newer the easier will be to sell it eventually should I choose to do so in the future.

And well, when I tried it again I had a weird feeling. It didn’t feel as good as last time. I wonder why. I remembered a much better sound. Still won over the N1X for my taste. Both keyboard, somehow as I thought they were the same but N2 felt better) and sound. But in the end is like I had this weird “enlightenment”: it’s just not worth the price.

I mean, as good as it is, it’s still a digital piano. The action is great etc etc, but in the end, I had this feeling that it’s just not worth 10k. We may be talking of the top of the line (or almost) of a famous brand, but whatever. Top of the line or not, in my opinion, maybe is just not worth that kind of money. It’s 10k! That’s a lot of money. You can get a very decent acoustic piano for that’s price. Now, of course there are a lot of reasons why one (including myself) might consider a digital instrument. Just saying well, it feels too much money for what you get. Hope I explained myself. Anyone feels the same way?
Posted By: MacMacMac

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 05/01/19 06:15 AM

I think it's better that you discovered this BEFORE buying.
Buyer's regret is much less painful if you've not yet made the purchase.
Posted By: thomscot

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 05/01/19 06:33 AM

Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I think it's better that you discovered this BEFORE buying.
Buyer's regret is much less painful if you've not yet made the purchase.


Hold this comment for after I’ll actually go to the store and get it. 😄
I’m just very puzzled. smirk
Posted By: CyberGene

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 05/01/19 07:01 AM

Sorry if I missed that but did you also test the NV10?
P.S. Just scrolled back and read your opinion after you tested the NV10.
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 05/01/19 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by thomscot
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I think it's better that you discovered this BEFORE buying.
Buyer's regret is much less painful if you've not yet made the purchase.


Hold this comment for after I’ll actually go to the store and get it. 😄
I’m just very puzzled. smirk

Wait. What does this mean? Did you change your mind again and decide to buy it? laugh
Posted By: thomscot

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 05/01/19 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by thomscot
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I think it's better that you discovered this BEFORE buying.
Buyer's regret is much less painful if you've not yet made the purchase.


Hold this comment for after I’ll actually go to the store and get it. 😄
I’m just very puzzled. smirk

Wait. What does this mean? Did you change your mind again and decide to buy it? laugh


I might just go for the “whatever, it’s only money after all!” just buy the damn thing and leave eventual regrets for later.
Lol
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 05/01/19 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by thomscot
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Wait. What does this mean? Did you change your mind again and decide to buy it? laugh

I might just go for the “whatever, it’s only money after all!” just buy the damn thing and leave eventual regrets for later.
Lol

I often go for that. But then I am wracked with anxiety.... the anxiety of how to explain it to the wife! shocked eek laugh
Posted By: MacMacMac

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 05/01/19 01:26 PM

Never explain.
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 05/01/19 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Never explain.

You obviously don't have my wife! wink
Posted By: LarryK

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 05/01/19 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by thomscot
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Wait. What does this mean? Did you change your mind again and decide to buy it? laugh

I might just go for the “whatever, it’s only money after all!” just buy the damn thing and leave eventual regrets for later.
Lol

I often go for that. But then I am wracked with anxiety.... the anxiety of how to explain it to the wife! shocked eek laugh


As the old saying goes, it is better to beg for forgiveness than to ask for permission.

I think it's ok to buy things as long as one sells things. At least, that's what I tell myself. All of my stuff fits into a one bedroom apartment, how many people can say that? I don't have any storage units, either, I don't even have any storage in my building, there is a twenty year waiting list for a storage unit, lol.

I have a lot of stuff, though, so it is time for me to run some more eBay auctions to decrease the entropy in my apartment and to flatten the spending curve. My rating is over 500 on eBay. I would have drowned in this apartment without eBay or I would have died like the Collyer Brothers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collyer_brothers

So, buy the damn thing and sell the other damn thing. Or, wait five years. ;-) I'm giving myself five years to convince my wife that we need a fine German upright.
Posted By: 36251

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 05/01/19 04:26 PM

I love my N2 but personally would not pay 10K for a new one. Maybe you can have a piano tech check out the used one. Most likely person who owns it has taken care of it. I paid under 10K in 2011 for mine.

Who's to say the new samples in X series are superior. I've already stated I prefer the warmer tone of the CSIII and think the CFX is too bright. Yamaha might of learned how to cut corners for X series that wasn't available for N series.

If you end buying new one then congratulations and enjoy.
Posted By: CyberGene

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 05/01/19 05:02 PM

I don’t think the CFX samples in the X are “cutting corners”. I get it people have different taste and might prefer the CFIII samples over the CFX but I wouldn’t go as far as to declare the CFX “cutting corners” smile
Posted By: 36251

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 05/01/19 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by CyberGene
I don’t think the CFX samples in the X are “cutting corners”. I get it people have different taste and might prefer the CFIII samples over the CFX but I wouldn’t go as far as to declare the CFX “cutting corners” smile
I'm not implying the CFX sample is inferior in anyway or corners were cut. I am just responding to the many who keep claiming the N1X is better than the N series cause the CFX must be better and technology and sampling is better.

I almost bought a Grand Touch, Yamaha's first hybrid but I didn't think it sounded good enough for the money. Sampling was dramatically improved for N series over Grand Touch, but I don't think the X series is comparably that much better than N series except for the Binaural sampling.
Posted By: CyberGene

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 05/01/19 06:39 PM

I like the CFIII samples, at least as I remember them. Haven’t had the chance to compare them directly to the CFX samples though. But I think the actual CFX grand has very specific timbre. The one in Garritan is also on the bright side. I also remember the CFX in the Chopin competition, it was bright when needed but at the same time had thick and dark character that’s suitable for Chopin. I personally prefer darker pianos but the CFX somehow manages to be both bright and dark at the same time, as contradictory as it may sound... It would be interesting to know what improvements Yamaha have made in the real CFX compared to their previous flagship the CFIII. Whether it’s the strings or the soundboard or hammers. Or everything smile
Posted By: mhy

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 05/02/19 07:50 PM

thomscot - I recently had this very dilemma and ended up going with the N2. Feel free to message me if you want more opinions. In short, I just liked the sound better despite its age, and I think it is much more aesthetically pleasing than the N1X.

(http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/2818080/gonew/1/yamaha-n1x-vs-n2.html)
Posted By: thomscot

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 05/07/19 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by mhy
thomscot - I recently had this very dilemma and ended up going with the N2. Feel free to message me if you want more opinions. In short, I just liked the sound better despite its age, and I think it is much more aesthetically pleasing than the N1X.

(http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/2818080/gonew/1/yamaha-n1x-vs-n2.html)


Thanks, I agree pretty much with everything you say. And in the end I think I have just decided to contradict one of my previous posts and just buy a new N2. smile

Will keep you updated.
Posted By: thomscot

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 05/15/19 02:29 AM

Originally Posted by thomscot
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by thomscot
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I think it's better that you discovered this BEFORE buying.
Buyer's regret is much less painful if you've not yet made the purchase.


Hold this comment for after I’ll actually go to the store and get it. 😄
I’m just very puzzled. smirk

Wait. What does this mean? Did you change your mind again and decide to buy it? laugh


I might just go for the “whatever, it’s only money after all!” just buy the damn thing and leave eventual regrets for later.
Lol



And so I did. laugh

Just as an update for everyone who kindly participated to this thread, in the end yesterday "I bought the damn thing".

I went for a new instrument, for a bit less than 10K (just for reference since I bought it in Japanese yen, so talking about USD doesn't make as the rate always changes).

After all the tests and trying many different things the N2 was just my favorite. The sound, the action, and the overall feeling I had playing it was just superior for me to all the others. The N2 only fell short on headphones, as that binaural thing of the -X series is pretty great. Of course, it's always a matter of taste so these comments are just a personal opinion.

On a side note, interestingly just when I was filling the papers I noticed an acoustic upright to which they had installed a system that when switched on, one could actually regulate the volume of the piano. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? The system had a name but I forgot.
I knew of course of the "silent" system that lets you use an acoustic with headphones, but this was different. You had the headphones options PLUS the possibility to adjust the volume if you turned the system on. It was pretty cool.

I was almost tempted, but after all would have been almost the same price as the N2 (I forgot the acoustic piano model, but was around 6/7K without the system installed) and if the point is to play it at lower volume most of the time then the speaker system of the N2 was far superior anyway.
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 05/15/19 02:50 AM

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
When you ask any salesman about something they don't sell or that is not available ... they have a ready-made story about how that product is not good, or is being discontinued, or something to the effect that "you don't want that and what you really want is <SOMETHING I SELL GOES HERE>".

So the N2 is being discontinued, says the salesman.
Unsubstantiated drivel, says Mac3.

How do you know when a salesman is lying ... ? smile

What I actually asked was: "Has the N1X arrived yet?" (Long history on this question which I had been asking at this particular store for 2 months already, always with the answer of "no, but soon.") Then when the answer for the first time came back affirmative, I asked, "will I be able to try it side-by-side with the N2 and N3X?" And the answer was, "you can try it next to the N3X, but we sold our last N2 a month ago and are not expecting to restock it. We've heard that Yamaha won't be release an N2X and will be discontinuing it soon, although if you want one, we can still order one for you since it is still being listed on the Yamaha website as available for purchase - you just won't be able to try it in the store."

Not that I really need to try it in the store. I did try the N2 in that particular store back in December already. I just had wanted to a side-by-side comparison with the N1X to see how far the sound improved since the N1/N2 generation of 10 years ago.

I wanted to update this with the results of my latest investigations. I bought the N1X at my local Yamaha dealer today. After the salesman charged almost $9K to my card and I became a proud owner of the N1X, although still needing it to be delivered we had the following short conversation (rewording slightly):

"When I called, you mentioned that if I wanted to further upgrade, you allow full value trade-ins for a period of time. That does apply to this purchase, doesn't it?"
"Yes, if you decide you want to upgrade to acoustical grand, we definitely accept trade-ins."
"Good, because I've heard that the N2X might be coming out for Summer NAMM, and I might want to trade up when it does."
"Since we carry and sell all the Avantgrands, we asked Yamaha America when we could expect the N2X, and we were told there will be no N2X. There will only ever be an N2."

(Regarding "carrying and selling all the Avantgrands," I checked in the showroom and they had the N1X, N3X, and NU1X, but indeed had no N2.)

Again, this is only but a single data point. Use it at your own risk.
Posted By: Kawai James

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 05/15/19 03:05 AM

Congrats!

I expect you may be referring to "TransAcoustic" - which is the name of Yamaha's acoustic instruments with silencing and soundboard amplification features. Kawai "AnytimeX" and "AURES" instrument offer the same functionality.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: Pete14

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 05/15/19 09:44 AM

There will be no N2X.
Posted By: ando

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 05/15/19 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by Pete14
There will be no N2X.

Sure there will - if only to make sense of the gap between n1x and n3x. Yamaha just likes to take their time. There's (some) method in their madness.
Posted By: bSharp(C)yclist

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 05/15/19 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by Pete14
There will be no N2X.

I'm sure glad I didn't wait for it!
Posted By: spanishbuddha

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 05/16/19 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by ando
Originally Posted by Pete14
There will be no N2X.

Sure there will - if only to make sense of the gap between n1x and n3x. Yamaha just likes to take their time. There's (some) method in their madness.

The problem, at least for me, is the form factor or size of the N1X is too big compared to an upright, so there’s a gap there to be filled in the market, unless Yamaha think it’s plugged with the CLP series.
Posted By: thomscot

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 05/16/19 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by spanishbuddha
Originally Posted by ando
Originally Posted by Pete14
There will be no N2X.

Sure there will - if only to make sense of the gap between n1x and n3x. Yamaha just likes to take their time. There's (some) method in their madness.

The problem, at least for me, is the form factor or size of the N1X is too big.


Actually that was another factor in favor of N2 vs N1X for me. Size. I live in Japan where houses are generally quite small (especially in central Tokyo), so every inch you can save matters. And in general esthetically speaking I like the N2 better than the N1X.
Posted By: thomscot

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 05/16/19 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by Kawai James
Congrats!

I expect you may be referring to "TransAcoustic" - which is the name of Yamaha's acoustic instruments with silencing and soundboard amplification features. Kawai "AnytimeX" and "AURES" instrument offer the same functionality.

Kind regards,
James
x


Thank you.

And yes, I think that was it, although I couldn't swear it. Is it a recent technology? I remember the silecing thing has been there for a while but I don't recall having heard about the TransAcoustic thing before.

But well, I have never been much of a technical person when it comes to pianos. For me they have always been just things with black and white keys that can be source of both great pleasure and great frustration. smile
Posted By: LarryK

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 05/16/19 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by thomscot
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Congrats!

I expect you may be referring to "TransAcoustic" - which is the name of Yamaha's acoustic instruments with silencing and soundboard amplification features. Kawai "AnytimeX" and "AURES" instrument offer the same functionality.

Kind regards,
James
x


Thank you.

And yes, I think that was it, although I couldn't swear it. Is it a recent technology? I remember the silecing thing has been there for a while but I don't recall having heard about the TransAcoustic thing before.

But well, I have never been much of a technical person when it comes to pianos. For me they have always been just things with black and white keys that can be source of both great pleasure and great frustration. smile


The Yamaha TransAcoustic pianos are cool, and expensive. Basically, two devices, called transducers, are mounted to the piano’s soundboard in order to play back digitally generated sounds. Voilà, no speakers required, the soundboard becomes a speaker! It is a regular acoustic piano, with hammers and strings.

Here is a review:



If my wife is adamant that we should not own both an upright and a keyboard when I decide to get an acoustic piano then a TransAcoustic will be put on my list of alternatives.
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 05/16/19 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by thomscot
Originally Posted by spanishbuddha
Originally Posted by ando
Originally Posted by Pete14
There will be no N2X.
Sure there will - if only to make sense of the gap between n1x and n3x. Yamaha just likes to take their time. There's (some) method in their madness.
The problem, at least for me, is the form factor or size of the N1X is too big.
Actually that was another factor in favor of N2 vs N1X for me. Size. I live in Japan where houses are generally quite small (especially in central Tokyo), so every inch you can save matters. And in general esthetically speaking I like the N2 better than the N1X.

I have a Tokyo-size flat in Washington DC! So to fit my new N1X, I will literally be hiring an interior designer to reorganize my space and replace some of my furniture. It will take 4-6 weeks in total. (Part of my piano commitment! grin )
Posted By: Pete14

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 05/16/19 01:46 PM

It seems like the N1X is holding up just fine against the NV10 (never mind its lower price).
So let’s say that Yamaha ends up releasing an N2X similarly priced to the NV10; could the N1X and the N2X unite forces to slowly corral the vulnerable NV10 and consequently destroy it?
Unless, of course, the NV20 shows up to save the day.
Posted By: LarryK

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 05/16/19 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I have a Tokyo-size flat in Washington DC! So to fit my new N1X, I will literally be hiring an interior designer to reorganize my space and replace some of my furniture. It will take 4-6 weeks in total. (Part of my piano commitment! grin )


I live in a relatively small one bedroom in New York City.

To truly figure out what we’re each dealing with in terms of space, we’ll need to mention sizes, lol.

The real estate listing claims my apartment is 800 square feet. I have lived in a 425 sq ft studio. Every inch matters.

In Japan, isn’t the measurement by number of tatami mats?
Posted By: Pete14

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 05/16/19 01:50 PM

I agree that every inch matters, so yes, “we’ll need to mention sizes!”
Posted By: johnstaf

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 05/16/19 02:04 PM

I love the size of the N2. The N1, N1X is a little bit too big for me.
Posted By: johnstaf

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 05/16/19 02:16 PM

Not that I'd say no to an N1X, mind you!
Posted By: percy64

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 05/16/19 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by johnstaf
I love the size of the N2. The N1, N1X is a little bit too big for me.

I wonder why the N1/N1X is bigger (deeper) than the N2 - I guess it must be something to do with speaker positioning
Posted By: johnstaf

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 05/16/19 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by percy64
Originally Posted by johnstaf
I love the size of the N2. The N1, N1X is a little bit too big for me.

I wonder why the N1/N1X is bigger (deeper) than the N2 - I guess it must be something to do with speaker positioning


I was thinking the same. It's a shame they don't make a version with no speakers at all, or at least the smallest the action would allow.
Posted By: thomscot

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 05/20/19 01:23 AM

Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I have a Tokyo-size flat in Washington DC! So to fit my new N1X, I will literally be hiring an interior designer to reorganize my space and replace some of my furniture. It will take 4-6 weeks in total. (Part of my piano commitment! grin )


In Japan, isn’t the measurement by number of tatami mats?


Yes it generally is, although nowadays most of the time you find both tatami and square meters. Usually they use tatami for the single rooms and express the area of the whole house in square meters.

Currently I live in a flat that is overall about 475 square feet. The room where the piano will go is about 175. It's the main and only room after all, excluding kitchen and restroom.

The funny part is that this is by far the BIGGEST flat I have ever lived in in Japan. (The smallest being 205 square feet). But I always had a (digital) piano.
Posted By: LarryK

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? - 06/13/19 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by thomscot
Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I have a Tokyo-size flat in Washington DC! So to fit my new N1X, I will literally be hiring an interior designer to reorganize my space and replace some of my furniture. It will take 4-6 weeks in total. (Part of my piano commitment! grin )


In Japan, isn’t the measurement by number of tatami mats?


Yes it generally is, although nowadays most of the time you find both tatami and square meters. Usually they use tatami for the single rooms and express the area of the whole house in square meters.

Currently I live in a flat that is overall about 475 square feet. The room where the piano will go is about 175. It's the main and only room after all, excluding kitchen and restroom.

The funny part is that this is by far the BIGGEST flat I have ever lived in in Japan. (The smallest being 205 square feet). But I always had a (digital) piano.


Most Americans are living in houses that range from 2000 to 5000 square feet. Somehow they still can’t store all their stuff at home so they rent storage units! Crazy.

It’s all I can do to maintain 800 square feet. The 425 square foot studio I lived in was intelligently laid out, in the 1930s, with windows in the kitchen, bathroom, and living room. Back then, I was playing the violin, but there is always room for a small piano, as you know.

One important thing for me is to live in a unit with two exposures, so you get cross ventilation. That means corner apartments. My current place, also built in the 1930s, has two exposures. Every apartment in my building has two exposures, except for some of the studios. They don’t build like that anymore.

I could always use one more room, though. My old Russian violin teacher told me that a farmer with one cow is not jealous of a farmer with one hundred cows, he is jealous of the farmer with two cows.
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