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really????? px160 over kawai?

Posted By: Valencia

really????? px160 over kawai? - 03/12/19 05:57 PM

Hi everyone,

Wondering if you could help me suss out whether its worth it to spend 3 times more on a Kawai vpc1 compared to the casio px-160.

My other question is whether yamaha keyboards really have wooden keys.

Currently I'm using an oooooooold Roland RD-300s with piano software. It has served me well, but the contacts are starting to wear out so its time to consider what might be my next keyboard. I play classical, probably late intermediate to early advanced.

At a local piano store, they have lots of casios. I asked the sales guy if they had in any of the kawai's listed on their website(in the $2500-$2800 range... one might have been an ES8?) and he said no, they only order them in when people specifically request them because almost everyone prefers the casios, and they are better value for the money. He talked like they are as good as the more expensive kawais. He specifically recommended the px160 as the best keyboard. The px160 is sold for around $700 (actually for $1000 in their store, but I've seen it elsewhere for $700).

What do you all think of this? I tried the px160. It felt not bad, but it was set to standing height and not anchored. and was bouncing around on the stand like crazy when I was trying to play. And there wasn't a kawai there to compare it to.

The VPC1 appealed to me because it is supposed to be like playing a real acoustic piano. I don't actually have the money for it right now, but if it is worth it I might try to see how I can save and scrounge to get one. It seems the only remotely affordable keyboard in that category of realness. For example the MP11-se is over $1000 more than the vpc1. VPC1 sells for between $2000-$2500.

I honestly don't really have the money for the vpc1, but i still have this fantasy of being able to play an acoustic piano if I ever come across one. The keyboard I have right now is not really helping me to do that. I tried to play bits of Schubert's Impromptu Op 90/3 on some real pianos in that store and it was terrible as I had no fine control over the keys.

The other question I have is, is it true that Yamaha products don't really have wooden keys? I found a webpage that says they only put wooden slats on the sides of plastic keys. This turned me off from looking at keyboards like the p515 or the cp4. Is this true?

Thanks for any help you can provide!
Posted By: MacMacMac

Re: really????? px160 over kawai? - 03/12/19 06:23 PM

If you're thinking about the VPC, then it must be that you intend to use virtual instruments exclusively.
So the voices available on the keyboard are unimportant. Only the action feel matters.

In that case, try the Casio. Do you like the action?
If it suits you (and if it has a MIDI connection or a USB/MIDI connection) ... then go for it. You'll have saved a bundle. Enough to pay for the requisite computer and audio interface.
Posted By: Valencia

Re: really????? px160 over kawai? - 03/12/19 06:50 PM

Thanks MacMacMac. Yes the lack of internal sounds is a drawback for the vpc1. Fortunately I am using VST now with my current keyboard because it sounds so bad. I almost never just play the keyboard without hooking it up to my computer. Would i need more than my laptop and the VST to use the VPC1? also my current keyboard doesn't have external speakers so I am used to that
Posted By: JoeT

Re: really????? px160 over kawai? - 03/12/19 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by Valencia
At a local piano store, they have lots of casios. I asked the sales guy if they had in any of the kawai's listed on their website(in the $2500-$2800 range... one might have been an ES8?) and he said no, they only order them in when people specifically request them because almost everyone prefers the casios, and they are better value for the money. He talked like they are as good as the more expensive kawais. He specifically recommended the px160 as the best keyboard. The px160 is sold for around $700 (actually for $1000 in their store, but I've seen it elsewhere for $700).

I would purchase around $1500, there you get the best piano for your buck. Go below $1000 only if you are really tight on budget.

Quote
The other question I have is, is it true that Yamaha products don't really have wooden keys? I found a webpage that says they only put wooden slats on the sides of plastic keys. This turned me off from looking at keyboards like the p515 or the cp4. Is this true?

This is completely false. Yamaha's wooden actions have fully wooden white keys paired with black keys made from plastic. Roland uses the slats.
Posted By: Valencia

Re: really????? px160 over kawai? - 03/12/19 07:10 PM

Oh and here is the article about the Yamaha fake wood keys!

https://stilwellpianos.com/blogs/blog/dont-be-fooled-by-yamahas-clavinova-with-wooden-keys
Posted By: Valencia

Re: really????? px160 over kawai? - 03/12/19 07:13 PM

Sorry I didn’t see your response before I posted JoeT! Thanks for the advice on price! The p515 is about $1900 and I saw a used cp4 for $1300 described as mint.
Posted By: clothearednincompo

Re: really????? px160 over kawai? - 03/12/19 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by Valencia
Wondering if you could help me suss out whether its worth it to spend 3 times more on a Kawai vpc1 compared to the casio px-160.


Maybe if:
- You are actually a skilled player and can tell a difference between e.g. a well maintained grand and a mediocre upright
- You are worried about key action noise, side to side movement of the keys and the functioning of the triple sensor implementation as they are a bit different (better in Kawai according to a YouTube video).
- You are worried about the durability of the action in active use as Casios are known to develop some clunks and rattles over time and they can actually be quite loud.
- You are obsessed about the pivot point of the keys. (As Casios have a small pivot length.)
Posted By: JoeT

Re: really????? px160 over kawai? - 03/12/19 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by Valencia
Sorry I didn’t see your response before I posted JoeT!

Well, it's this picture again:

[Linked Image].

Though it's absolutely clear and visible, that there is a fully wooden keystick plated with plastic. At the instrument you can just look down beside the black keys and verify it. (The wood obviously is cut out to make room for the black keys.)

It just looks weird from this angle, because the plastic plating is the part connecting the wooden key to the joint and the hammer. This invisible attachment is smaller in width (and length) than the actual wooden key and that is the reason why the wood casts a shadow.

This construction saves a lot of weight (compared to a MP11SE for example), while still providing white keys completely filled with solid wood (not hollow like plastic keys) giving the Natural Wood experience you expect from a piano action.

Quote
Thanks for the advice on price! The p515 is about $1900 and I saw a used cp4 for $1300 described as mint.

Indeed, that is the range where you get the most of your money's worth.
Posted By: Charles Cohen

Re: really????? px160 over kawai? - 03/12/19 08:56 PM

You have a VST, a computer to run it on, and external loudspeakers:

. . . Rent a PX-160 for a week (or a month), and see how you like it.

If you say:

. . . "This is good enough"

and you buy it, you'll have saved quite a bit of money compared to the VPC1.

You'll also have a DP that's "stand-alone", with better built-in sound and action than your current DP, if you ever need one.

The PX-160 doesn't have "real MIDI jacks" (5-pin DIN connectors). Instead, it uses a USB jack to send MIDI to the computer, over a USB-to-USB cable. That's usually called a "USB printer cable", and it's cheap. You might have to change a settting on your VST software to make it work.

If you look at the Pianoteq user forum, you might be surprised at how many people are using Casio PX-series keyboards to drive that VST.
Posted By: Valencia

Re: really????? px160 over kawai? - 03/12/19 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
Originally Posted by Valencia
Wondering if you could help me suss out whether its worth it to spend 3 times more on a Kawai vpc1 compared to the casio px-160.


Maybe if:

- You are worried about the durability of the action in active use as Casios are known to develop some clunks and rattles over time and they can actually be quite loud.


Hmm. This is concerning. This sounds like Casios are kind of junky? I don't want to have to replace a keyboard in a couple of years time. I want my next keyboard to last as long as possible.

Charles I never thought about renting a keyboard to try it out. I will look into that! I wish they had the Kawai in stock so I could try that too.
Posted By: Valencia

Re: really????? px160 over kawai? - 03/12/19 11:23 PM

Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by Valencia
Sorry I didn’t see your response before I posted JoeT!



Quote
Thanks for the advice on price! The p515 is about $1900 and I saw a used cp4 for $1300 described as mint.

Indeed, that is the range where you get the most of your money's worth.


yes and the kawai vpc1 isn't much more than the p515 so I guess it might fall into that category too.
Posted By: Kawai James

Re: really????? px160 over kawai? - 03/13/19 12:54 AM

Hello Valencia,

Originally Posted by Valencia
At a local piano store, they have lots of casios. I asked the sales guy if they had in any of the kawai's listed on their website(in the $2500-$2800 range... one might have been an ES8?) and he said no, they only order them in when people specifically request them because almost everyone prefers the casios, and they are better value for the money. He talked like they are as good as the more expensive kawais. He specifically recommended the px160 as the best keyboard. The px160 is sold for around $700 (actually for $1000 in their store, but I've seen it elsewhere for $700).

What do you all think of this? I tried the px160. It felt not bad, but it was set to standing height and not anchored. and was bouncing around on the stand like crazy when I was trying to play. And there wasn't a kawai there to compare it to.


It sounds like the salesperson/store just prefers to sell Casio.

May I ask the name of the store, by the way? If they're listing Kawai instruments on their website, but don't actually have any pianos available to play, I have to wonder...

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: Kawai James

Re: really????? px160 over kawai? - 03/13/19 12:58 AM

Originally Posted by Valencia


Hmmm...

"Not even Kawai goes this low!"

This piano dealer should stick to blogging about the products they do sell, rather than attempting to deride the brands that they do not.
Posted By: Kawai James

Re: really????? px160 over kawai? - 03/13/19 01:40 AM

Originally Posted by JoeT
Though it's absolutely clear and visible, that there is a fully wooden keystick plated with plastic.


While I believe the Yamaha "Natural Wood" actions contain more wood material than the dealer blog post linked above claims, I don't believe it's correct to describe the key as being "fully wooden", simply because there is obviously plastic in the construction.

I think if you were to take a Yamaha "Natural Wood" key, a Kawai "Grand Feel" key, and a Casio "Grand Hybrid" key, line them up on a table, and ask someone with no knowledge of digital pianos to pick-out the "fully wooden" keys, I expect they would select the Kawai and Casio keys ahead of the Yamaha.

Of course, this is just my personal opinion.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: dmd

Re: really????? px160 over kawai? - 03/13/19 03:35 AM

Since you already have everything you need to utilize the Kawai VPC1, I would suggest you give it a try.

You might also try to find it used somewhere (Craigslist, etc ….) because a number of them may be out there with those who thought they would like the VST route and then found out they do not and are now trying to sell their VPC1.


BTW …. the Kawai ES8 would also be a very nice option for you in terms of action and built-in sounds.
Posted By: Tommm777

Re: really????? px160 over kawai? - 03/13/19 03:53 AM

The px160 is a great budget option. The only downside is that it’s pretty heavy playing closer to the fretboard because of the shorter pivot length. The p515 and others are better in that regard, but it’s 3 times more expensive.
Posted By: Ralphiano

Re: really????? px160 over kawai? - 03/13/19 04:16 AM

When I parted with my Casio PX-760 (same action and sound as the 160) in favor of my VPC1, I regretted it. The reason I switched was to get the benefit of the more realistic action of the VPC1. My observations:

Regarding the keyboard:

1. I used my Casio Privia PX-760 (same as your 160) for an average of 2 hours per day for about 2.5 years and NEVER had any clunking sounds or any other discernible deficiency in the action. It was as reliable as a piano could be. The action was lighter than any acoustic piano I had played, and, since I was embarking on an acoustic piano restoration for my own use, I decided I needed to switch as soon as possible to a wooden key action. That was the ONLY reason for switching.

2. I believe the clunking reputation for Casio comes from their Privias from the 2000s. My very first piano was a Privia PX-310, from around 2005 (I think). It also was extremely reliable under my heavy use. But, the keys were somewhat noisy. However, it was 2014 and the Casio was about 10 years old.

Regarding the sound:

1. I had previously used Pianoteq 5 on that earlier Casio Privia, and, Pianoteq was an improvement over its sound. But, Pianoteq could not match the on board sounds of the PX-760. However, I grew unhappy with the 760's onboard speakers, so, I purchased a set of Samson M50 5" studio monitors for $120. To date, this has been the best sound I have been able to achieve from a digital piano. With good speakers, the Casio sounds quite nice.

2. I have lost 2 months trying to get an acceptable sound from the VPC1. I have Pianoteq 6, and with an investment of at least 300 hours of tinkering, I have only recently achieved a sound that satisfies me as much as the Casio PX-760 with a very modest set of studio monitors. I have wrestled so long with Pianoteq 6 that I feel I can no longer make a reliable comparison of the two sounds in my mind as I suspect my memory of the Casio/monitor sounds has faded and would be unreliable. I can say unequivocally that the sound I get out of my current VPC1/Pianoteq 6 with the same monitors does NOT WOW me. It is just acceptable. For the first two months, the sound was so horrible it distracted me, and discouraged me, from playing. Only now, in my third month of ownership and tinkering, have I been able to get past that distraction and get back to meaningful and productive practice.

So, do not be dismissive of the Privia line of pianos. With a modest set of monitors, you can have a quite nice sound, but, have a somewhat light action. With a better set of monitors, you might get a very, very pleasing sound from the Privia.

As for the VPC1, I do love the action. It is, in my mind, superior to the Privia. As for the sound available via software packages, I do not think the available sound programs match the quality of the VPC1, and there is substantial risk that you will not find the sound you want, leaving you to just settle for a software package that is less than ideal.

Good luck to you.
Posted By: johnstaf

Re: really????? px160 over kawai? - 03/13/19 05:08 AM

I would also consider Roland. I think the FP-90 has a more realistic action than the VPC-1.
Posted By: Jasper E.

Re: really????? px160 over kawai? - 03/13/19 08:05 AM

Back to the original question, to be honest, the comparison of Casio PX-160 vs. Kawai VPC-1 seems to be pretty artificial to me.
In case Casio PX-160 is really considered then Kawai ES-110 (or Roland FP-30 or Yamaha P-121/P-125) would be the trivial competitors. Which do not cost 3 times more.
Posted By: JoeT

Re: really????? px160 over kawai? - 03/13/19 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by JoeT
Though it's absolutely clear and visible, that there is a fully wooden keystick plated with plastic.


While I believe the Yamaha "Natural Wood" actions contain more wood material than the dealer blog post linked above claims, I don't believe it's correct to describe the key as being "fully wooden", simply because there is obviously plastic in the construction.

I was talking in layman customer's terms, where the key is the visible part they touch. Obviously it's not a fully wooden action. There are metal and plastic parts in it as well (including all black keys). Weight-wise I think the metal hammers dominate, volume-wise it should be wood.

What I tried to communicate: When you look down on an instrument with a NWX keyboard, everything white you see has solid wood under it.

Quote
I think if you were to take a Yamaha "Natural Wood" key, a Kawai "Grand Feel" key, and a Casio "Grand Hybrid" key, line them up on a table, and ask someone with no knowledge of digital pianos to pick-out the "fully wooden" keys, I expect they would select the Kawai and Casio keys ahead of the Yamaha.

I think we can all agree, that these hybrid actions are a whole different story in regards to realism. But we have yet to see a Kawai ES with a wooden action and powered speakers. I'm looking forward to it. smile
Posted By: JoeT

Re: really????? px160 over kawai? - 03/13/19 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by Ralphiano
I have lost 2 months trying to get an acceptable sound from the VPC1. I have Pianoteq 6, and with an investment of at least 300 hours of tinkering, I have only recently achieved a sound that satisfies me as much as the Casio PX-760 with a very modest set of studio monitors. I have wrestled so long with Pianoteq 6 that I feel I can no longer make a reliable comparison of the two sounds in my mind as I suspect my memory of the Casio/monitor sounds has faded and would be unreliable. I can say unequivocally that the sound I get out of my current VPC1/Pianoteq 6 with the same monitors does NOT WOW me. It is just acceptable. For the first two months, the sound was so horrible it distracted me, and discouraged me, from playing. Only now, in my third month of ownership and tinkering, have I been able to get past that distraction and get back to meaningful and productive practice.

I had a similar experience until I gave up and fell back to the built-in sound my instrument thankfully had. This is also the reason why I encourage beginners to choose a hardware sample they like and to stay from the software route. The latter is something to be considered later a few years in.
Posted By: Kawai James

Re: really????? px160 over kawai? - 03/13/19 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by JoeT
Obviously it's not a fully wooden action. There are metal and plastic parts in it as well (including all black keys).


Right, if we're talking about the action in general, there are obviously metal and plastic parts - this is true of all digital pianos.

However, I was specifically referring to the "Natural Wood" keystick itself. Again, I don't believe this can be described as "fully wooden", as the wooden part is attached to a plastic chassis that runs along the top and bottom of the key.

Originally Posted by JoeT
I think we can all agree, that these hybrid actions are a whole different story in regards to realism.


I'd rather not get sidetracked by what defines a "hybrid" action, however I personally consider "Grand Feel" and "Grand Hybrid" to be digital piano actions.
Real "hybrid" actions are only found in the Yamaha Avantgrand and Kawai Novus.

Originally Posted by JoeT
But we have yet to see a Kawai ES with a wooden action and powered speakers. I'm looking forward to it. smile


Me too. wink
Maybe it will also feature a "wood+plastic" key action like the latest Yamaha and Roland models? wink

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: Doug M.

Re: really????? px160 over kawai? - 03/13/19 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by Valencia
Hi everyone,

Almost everyone prefers the casios, and they are better value for the money. He talked like they are as good as the more expensive kawais. He specifically recommended the px160 as the best keyboard. The px160 is sold for around $700 (actually for $1000 in their store, but I've seen it elsewhere for $700).

The VPC1 appealed to me because it is supposed to be like playing a real acoustic piano. I don't actually have the money for it right now, but if it is worth it I might try to see how I can save and scrounge to get one.

The other question I have is, is it true that Yamaha products don't really have wooden keys?




1) In my experiences, playing a Kawai VPC1 action is nothing like playing an acoustic piano. You can test that action on the CA17. The only actions on digital pianos that come close are the Avant Grand action and the Millennium III hybrid action on the Novus NV10. They are very expensive.

2) The Casio Px-160 is a beginners digital piano. It's action is good for the price, but not in the league of the VPC1 action. You should compare that action against the actions on the Yamaha P125, Roland FP30, Casio PX S-1000 (the replacement for the PX-160). The Casio PX S-3000 (the next level up) is definitely something I would like to try.

3) I like the Kawai MP11 or 11SE action the best (Grand Feel1) in slab pianos. That instrument comes with sounds; whereas, the VPC1 has the capacity to set custom velocity curves for VSTs. If you want to use a VST, the VPC1 in my understanding is slightly better (with regard to optimising the experience).

4) Dealers who have commission for any brand will use narrative that promotes that brand---he is probably lying that most customers prefer the casio; rather, he pushes Casio to them and doesn't sell other instruments unless specifically a customer insists. IMO, ignore them and focus on what you feel is the best after you trial them out. It can put people off when dealers try and push a brand too aggressively, at the cost of the reputation of the brand itself. I would try all the instruments for the price bracket you're aiming for and try and ignore the dealers narrative.

5) VPC1's are sometimes available second hand. The best used deal I've seen was £600 ($790) for a year old instrument on ebay. Also, you may be able to get a good deal on other used instruments that will enable your money to go further. As the VPC1 doesn't come with monitors, but I'm not a big fan of portable piano amplification quality anyway. I'd far rather play using headphones and save up for amplification on a slab, than buy a portable piano with 20 to 60 watts sound.

Good second hand deals on a budget with decent actions:
Kawai MP7 and Kawai ES7; Kawai MP10 (this with piano software would be a good deal).
Roland RD800
Yamaha CP4
Roland FP90 /Fp80.


6) IMO, wooden keys are not necessarily an advantage and what counts is the overall quality and feel of the action. The RHIII plastic action in the ES8 is so nice. I would buy it over the CP4 which has the NW action (wooden keys), although this action is good too. OK, adding wood to the action (or wooden slats) probably pushes up the manufacturing costs and maybe looks nice, but that does that guarantee it will make the action better?
Posted By: jamiecw

Re: really????? px160 over kawai? - 03/13/19 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by Doug M.
OK, adding wood to the action (or wooden slats) probably pushes up the manufacturing costs and maybe looks nice, but that does that guarantee it will make the action better?


In my experience there is some realism to keys with wood underneath them...for example, when playing on Roland's PHA50 action which has a couple of pieces of veneer wood on either side on the white keys, I can sense there is this slight/subtle hollow feel (the black keys being more condensed in size less so)...on the contrary when you play the NWX or the Fatar TP40W (which I believe has wood under the actual white keys as the NWX has) you don't get any of that hollowness and really feels like you are playing on a key that has some substance behind it (I say some substance because the entire key is not wooden just the part you see, if that). So the feeling is akin to acoustics which have full wooden keys (feeling is minus the vibration & feeling of hammer hitting strings etc.).

However, to answer the question does it make the action better - in my view, no, definitely not. I can play on either and enjoy both because both actions have their pros and cons...if the question was, does it make the action that little bit more realistic? Yes I really believe it does..
Posted By: JoeT

Re: really????? px160 over kawai? - 03/13/19 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by JoeT
But we have yet to see a Kawai ES with a wooden action and powered speakers. I'm looking forward to it. smile


Me too. wink
Maybe it will also feature a "wood+plastic" key action like the latest Yamaha and Roland models? wink

In my opinion there is nothing wrong with attaching plastic to wood, as real ivory is out of the question for digitals, so some plastic is there anyway.

I'm not so fond of the veneer wood option though, I would prefer solid wood white and black keys if possible.
Posted By: Valencia

Re: really????? px160 over kawai? - 03/13/19 07:15 PM

Thanks everyone for your contributions to this thread! Lots to think about here. Just to respond to a couple of points:

Kawai James, the store is not a chain store but just a local shop and they have lots of Kawai uprights and grands there, just no digitals! The only digitals they had were casio, including some really expensive ones that were over $5000!

Ralphiano, sorry to hear about your disappointing experience with Pianoteq and the VPC1! I did think the onboard sound for the PX160 was pretty good, especially for the price. However, I've been listening to cfx lite software, and pretty much every sound coming from every digital is a little disapppointing in comparison to that. Even the yamaha p515 sound, which is supposed to be cfx, doesn't sound as good to me as cfx software!

Jasper E, the comparison of Px-160 to VPC1 is a little out there because my economic situation doesn't match my piano abilities and aspirations. I'm trying to decide if i should see if there is a way to get an instrument like VPC1, instead of accepting supposed reality and getting the lowest price decent keyboard.

DougM, Thanks for all the advice in your post! I haven't seen a casio px-3000 and the guy at the piano shop made it sound like the px-160 is the latest. you are probably right about the guy getting commission from casio. He really seemed into it and didn't even ask about my piano aspirations or what I liked to play or anything. Maybe he assumed i was a beginner after he heard me play!!

Tommm777, I didn't even think to try playing specifically at the back of the keys when trying keyboards. Next time I'll be sure to do that.

Several people mentioned looking for a used instrument and I'm on the look out, but I live in a smaller city and there is not as much available used as I'd hoped. The keyboards that are offered used all seem to be really really old. and yet still quite expensive!

some people mentioned the ES8 and FP-90 as possible options as well. I can check into those. Suspect they are a little more expensive than the VPC1.
Posted By: pianosx

Re: really????? px160 over kawai? - 03/14/19 06:58 PM

If you're on a budget, and want a great value, versatile portable DP with speakers, the PX-160 is solid, you can get a good deal on them if you look around or wait for deals.
I got my slab from Amazon for $500 CAD (<$400 USD), and I got 4 people to buy the whole triple-pedal and wood stand setup when I saw Costco have a sale on them for $500 CAD as well.
PX-160 connects great with laptop and virtual pianos like Yamaha's CFX Lite.
I have it as my secondary workhorse DP to lug around and it does the job, while my main DP - Kawai ES8 - stays at home, except for special occasions (not in the same league, Yamaha P-515 is comparable).
The onboard sound sampling on the PX-160 is passable, and not much improvement with good headphones, but it'll do.
The Kawai ES-110 is more comparable at about $1000 CAD, and I'd say a great value upgrade at twice the price (for my region and based on sale price for PX-160).
If I had only one DP to choose, and being on budget, I'd consider the Kawai ES-110 because how great it is to play with or without a virtual piano, and for the small nuances that Kawai puts into their pianos.
You cannot go wrong with the PX-160 though, I love mine for what their purpose is for, I'm fortunate enough to be able to have several.
Posted By: oscar1

Re: really????? px160 over kawai? - 03/14/19 11:57 PM

Wait a minute...they try to sell you PX160 for $1000 - what currency is this? Mexican pesos?
No seriously, the PX160 is already the casio outgoing model sitting here for years and here in canada in costco it would be around $550-$650 CAD depending on the sale. (Iv'e seen it as low as $499) and canadian dollar stinks. You can easily get used one for $400 CAD. IMHO it is great for $400. But at $700 it is very questionable and I will directly call it a bad deal. Just to give you the price value I bought a year ago PX150 for $200 used. They don't hold the value too much and if you buy PX160 now when S1000 is about to be sold you won't be able to sell it without significant loss.
(and trust me you WILL want to sell it at some point and get something better)
I'd suggest first and foremost to make your mind - try every piano you can and make your mind which company piano you like most - then find a deal on that. Most of the pianos from the same company will sound and feel largely the same between similar models - you know not comparing the low end with the highest end.
Posted By: Valencia

Re: really????? px160 over kawai? - 03/16/19 02:27 AM

Thanks pianosx and oscar1!

Glad to hear the good review of the Casio pianosx. It’s so hard to try to figure out the best way to spend my money on a keyboard. I’m also disappointed at how difficult it seems to be to try out kawai digital. That store I went to that told me they were kawai dealers, well when I contacted them to ask about the vpc1, they directed my inquiry to another store that is in a different city! No wonder the guy was pushing the Casio. I don’t understand why more stores don’t handle kawai. And if I got a kawai keyboard from a distance away, what happens if something goes wrong with it? So at this point I can’t even try out an es-110 locally.

Oscar1 thanks for bringing up the px s1000. I don’t know why that guy in the store talked like the px 160 was the newest. And I would never buy it from that store because like you say they are way overpriced!

Don’t know what to do. I really wanted a keyboard that would help make my playing better and help me advance as a pianist (to the extent that I am one). I don’t want to have to sell my keyboard in a few years and get something better. I am ready for something better now. It’s just that darn problem of money...
Posted By: Kawai James

Re: really????? px160 over kawai? - 03/18/19 02:12 AM

Valencia, may I ask where you are based, please?

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: gerhard_k

Re: really????? px160 over kawai? - 03/19/19 02:30 AM

Originally Posted by Valencia

Oscar1 thanks for bringing up the px s1000. I don’t know why that guy in the store talked like the px 160 was the newest.

The problem is that the new PX-S1000 was announced at the NAMM in January but has not yet reached distribution channels (supposed to happen this month). So you can't blame the dealer (whatever his other flaws) for trying to sell a model that he has available versus the new model that he cannot even show you yet.
Posted By: pwl

Re: really????? px160 over kawai? - 03/19/19 03:11 AM

Well, yes you can blame the dealer. The existence of the new model was in the public domain (not a secret that only Casio dealers were "Privia" to). The dealer thinks he can bamboozle the customer into buying immediately - make the sale, never see the customer again. Problem for the dealer is this: If he doesn't make the sale . . . that potential customer will never trust that dealer again. So ANY chance for a sale goes out the window.

As a former retailer, the dealer CAN make a different decision. Be straight up with the customer - offer a nice savings on the outgoing model, acknowledge the new model, and try to create a CUSTOMER instead of a sale.

PS: And it's not that Casio, to my knowledge, has a history of announcing unobtainium with months and months of waiting til the new product is available.

PPS: I'm not trying to start an argument - your opinion is certainly one way of looking at this situation. I just wanted to make the point that there IS another way, which might actually prove to be in the best interest of the dealer (and the customer).

PPS: I'm all in on your tagline!
Posted By: jeffscot

Re: really????? px160 over kawai? - 03/19/19 05:48 AM

Originally Posted by gerhard_k
The problem is that the new PX-S1000 was announced at the NAMM in January but has not yet reached distribution channels (supposed to happen this month). So you can't blame the dealer (whatever his other flaws) for trying to sell a model that he has available versus the new model that he cannot even show you yet.

Sweetwater is showing in stock, and ready to ship, on the PX-S1000 in black.
With all the talk about these i would have thought the pre-orders would have taken care of the initial shipment, but apparently that is not case.
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