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Kawai Novus NV10 - line in volume level

Posted By: Osho

Kawai Novus NV10 - line in volume level - 01/28/19 10:13 PM

The NV10 hands on thread is getting too big - so posting a separate thread here.

I recently starting using NV10 with external VST's connected via line in. I find that the sound is better with line in volume set to say, -4 db. Is there a way to make this setting permanent - so it sticks after turning NV10 off and on?

Osho
Posted By: TomLC

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - line in volume level - 01/28/19 10:53 PM

Like the other settings in “sound”, I think if you save it to your startup favorite it will stay permanent. I just tried it and it worked for me. You will need to create a new favorite as your startup.
Posted By: Gombessa

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - line in volume level - 01/28/19 11:27 PM

As Tom mentioned, "startup with favorite" is the easiest way. From somewhere in the monster NV10 thread, I think you can find details about how to "trick" the UI into starting up with various settings adjustments without using a favorite.
Posted By: Kawai James

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - line in volume level - 01/29/19 12:09 AM

Osho, the following steps should do the "trick":

1. Set Line In Volume to -4.
2. Store to a new Favorite memory.
3. Select newly created Favorite memory in Favorite screen.
4. Set "Startup with Favorite" setting to ON.

James
x
Posted By: bSharp(C)yclist

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - line in volume level - 01/29/19 12:26 AM

You NV10 guys should build an NV10 wiki laugh
Posted By: Osho

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - line in volume level - 01/29/19 05:30 AM

Thanks Tom, Gombessa and James!

Osho
Posted By: Kawai James

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - line in volume level - 01/30/19 12:44 AM

Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist
You NV10 guys should build an NV10 wiki laugh


That's not a bad idea, actually...

James
x
Posted By: Giac

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - line in volume level - 05/17/19 10:32 PM

Hi everyone!
Regarding the line-in functionality, my Novus 10 experiences a weird problem. When I plug any device in order to use the native's speakers (I personally use Garritan CFX VST), and when I start to turn up the volume (by adjusting both line-in and Master volume), an hum starts to increase. I don't know if it's normal or a problem so, I'd like to ask to anyone who's been using this functionality if experience something just similar to my case.
With native sound and without line-in, I don't have any problems to deal with.
My current version is 1.0.2. Any ideas? Thanks in advance.
Posted By: Gombessa

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - line in volume level - 05/17/19 11:22 PM

Hi Giac,

It may depend on what kind of "hum" you're experiencing. Does it disappear as soon as you disconnect the USB cable from your laptop (used for your VST)? If so, that could indicate a "ground loop" noise, which IME can be a bit hard to eliminate. I've had decent luck with products like the iDefender 3.0 (you can Google it or look on Amazon).

There are various versions of firmware version 1.0.2 (the most recent being 1.0.2g) but I'm not aware of any version making changes to line-in audio levels.
Posted By: Giac

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - line in volume level - 05/18/19 08:26 AM

Hi Gombessa!
On your advice, I've just given it a try but the noise still remains, both I plug a USB cable and I disconnect it. When I adjust the volumes and without any cable connected the noise remains the same, anyway. I have no idea where it derives from; it could be normal but I don't know...
Posted By: Gombessa

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - line in volume level - 05/18/19 05:16 PM

Thanks for trying the test Giac. If the noise is present even without a physical USB connection, then it likely isn't the "ground loop" issue some of us have dealt with before.

Unfortunately, it's really hard to diagnose these issues on the Internet. It may be helpful if you can provide a video showing what the hum is like when you have line-in connected, versus what it's like when you disconnect the line-in?

Also, are you able to connect to the NV-10 using Bluetooth audio instead? You wouldn't want to use this for a VST since the latency is too high, but it may give you a comparison between what your line-in sounds like versus a pure digital + airgapped solution.
Posted By: Giac

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - line in volume level - 05/19/19 09:22 PM

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1atT-0u-sIZ-tZAEiftD48yPuFR_bSapE/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CIkYnBd6nfATRBOwzPGI0r4KVVpy4Uy1/view?usp=sharing

Here are the links to my test. First of all I turned line-in to max and only then I rolled the master knob up and down to highlight the noise evolution. Any suggestions to my settings? Has someone ever experienced something like this?
Posted By: Kawai James

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - line in volume level - 05/20/19 12:10 AM

Hello Giac,

Thank you for the recording and video.

Just to clarify, there was nothing connected (USB, Line In, etc.) to the NV10 when this audio/video was captured, correct?

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: Giac

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - line in volume level - 05/20/19 08:23 AM

Hello Kawai James!
I found out another thing (sorry for my ignorance)! When I plug the AUX cable to line-in in a "freely way" (without any other devices connected in the opposite side such as VSTs etc...) there is the problem previously displayed, BUT when I also unplug the "freely" AUX cable, the noise DISAPPEAR!
Before, in my mind, I thought that the two cases would have proved the same evidence, but actually not. So next I tried different AUX cables, but when I plug them in line-in port, the problem persist. Now in brief, when I connect devices to line-in there is the buzz, without anything connected the noise goes away. What do you think? Could it be resolved?
Posted By: Kawai James

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - line in volume level - 05/20/19 08:59 AM

So to clarify:

1. No Line In cable connected to piano, no Line In cable connected to device = No hum noise.
2. Line In cable connected to piano, but not connected to device = No hum noise.
3. Line In cable connected to piano and connected to device = Hum noise.

Is this a correct summary?
Which devices have you tried to connect to the Line In connectors so far? Just your computer?

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: Giac

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - line in volume level - 05/20/19 09:37 AM

The first and third statements are correct! Instead the second one is wrong because: Line In cable connected to piano, but not connected to device = Hum noise .
This is the case of the "freely" cable I talked about before. And Yes, I have just connected my computer so far because it is the only device I need to use.
Posted By: MacMacMac

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - line in volume level - 05/20/19 10:02 AM

I'm thinking that this is likely caused by a defective cable.
Originally Posted by Giac
Line In cable connected to piano, but not connected to device = Hum noise.
Try a new cable.

1. What kind of cable are you using? Is the shield connection broken? (Silly question. You cannot see that. You can only try a new cable.)

2. Is there any shielding at all? You can't see that either. But ... if this is a cheap dollar-store cable, you can bet that it's crap. Stick with brand-name cables.
Posted By: Giac

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - line in volume level - 05/20/19 11:32 AM

I tried to make the connection with brand new cables of renowed marks. Here they are:

https://www.amazon.com/Syncwire-Cab...amp;s=gateway&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/UGREEN-Auxiliary-Compatible-Smartphones-Tablets/dp/B01N2R9K5N/ref=sr_1_7?crid=WNIQMJSVVX3P&keywords=ugreen+aux+cable&qid=1558351651&s=gateway&sprefix=aux+ugr%2Caps%2C274&sr=8-7

Do you think it could be caused by them?
Posted By: spanishbuddha

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - line in volume level - 05/20/19 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I'm thinking that this is likely caused by a defective cable.
Originally Posted by Giac
Line In cable connected to piano, but not connected to device = Hum noise.
Try a new cable.

1. What kind of cable are you using? Is the shield connection broken? (Silly question. You cannot see that. You can only try a new cable.)

2. Is there any shielding at all? You can't see that either. But ... if this is a cheap dollar-store cable, you can bet that it's crap. Stick with brand-name cables.

Hummm. On my NU1 if I connect a (screened, decent quality) audio cable to the AUX in left and right ports but leave the other end open dangling and disconnected, I get a loud hum out of the piano speakers. Plug the other end in (usually) to iPad and the hum goes. This observation may help?
Posted By: Gombessa

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - line in volume level - 05/20/19 10:49 PM

I think there should be a connection sensor in the AUX-IN jacks, just as they are in the headphone jacks (so the piano knows when headphones are connected and to cut the sound to the speakers). So when there is no aux-in cable connected to the DP, it's not listening for that port--you should hear no hum regardless of the input.

With that said, it could definitely be a cable issue (and those are oftentimes the hardest to detect because you tend to focus on the terminal components) so it's worth trying a different one.
Posted By: Kawai James

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - line in volume level - 05/21/19 12:26 AM

Hello Giac,

Thank you for your reply.

Originally Posted by Giac
The first and third statements are correct! Instead the second one is wrong because: Line In cable connected to piano, but not connected to device = Hum noise.


Okay, I see.

So the hum only occurs when a cable is connected to the piano's Line In connector. In addition, this hum occurs regardless of whether that cable is connected to your computer or not, correct?

I will need to double-check, however, I expect leaving the other end of that cable disconnected from any device (the "freely" cable, as you refer to it) will probably cause a hum sound, as spanishbuddha notes with his NU1. For reference, my Nord also behaves in the same way.

However, a hum sound that occurs when the Line In cable is connected to another device is something of a mystery to me. I initially expected a Ground Loop hum caused by the USB cable, however you claim that the hum remains audible even after the USB cable is disconnected. By the way, have you also tried disconnecting the power from your computer (and running from the battery)?

If you have not done so already, I would recommend contacting your Kawai dealer and/or Kawai distributor (Furcht Pianoforte) for technical assistance. It's possible we may have missed something very simple that a technician will be able to resolve straight away.

Kind regards,
James
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Posted By: Giac

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - line in volume level - 05/21/19 08:54 AM

Hello Kawai James,
many thanks for your support. And YES, this hum occurs regardless of whether that cable is connected to my computer or not. I have a notebook very powerful that makes VST working for a long time with its durable battery. Recently I've also contacted my dealer (Furcht pianoforti) but he argues that NV10 is a very niche product so they have no technicians, so far, able to take responsability on doing something they have never done before (even if his service is top notch and one of the best!). I will have to wait much longer... Forum.pianoworld is my last resort right now. It may be a very silly thing but I don't know what it could depends on.
I've tried everything you said but it results a mistery for me too. Probably I forget something, but don't know what. Have you ever tested other NV10s affected by the same issue? Thank you for every single tip.
Posted By: Giac

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - line in volume level - 05/21/19 09:13 AM

Hi Gombessa,
thanks for your tip. I know that we share the same configuration between NV10 and Garritan CFX (I personally don't require any external audio device).
Do you own any other accessory, in addition to usb and aux cables that I use? Or should I try other cables' brands? Which ones?
Which are the steps you do when preparing (such as settings, volume adjustments etc..) before starting to play the piano with Garritan CFX? Many thanks in advance.
Posted By: Gombessa

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - line in volume level - 05/21/19 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by Giac
Hi Gombessa,
thanks for your tip. I know that we share the same configuration between NV10 and Garritan CFX (I personally don't require any external audio device).
Do you own any other accessory, in addition to usb and aux cables that I use? Or should I try other cables' brands? Which ones?
Which are the steps you do when preparing (such as settings, volume adjustments etc..) before starting to play the piano with Garritan CFX? Many thanks in advance.


Well, I do get a ground loop buzz/hum with my Macbook Pro, so I used a USB dongle called an IDefender 3.0 to reduce (unfortunately not eliminate) it. But if I unplug the USB cable from either the laptop or the DP, the hum stops completely (even if a line-in cable is still connected).

I have 5-6 stereo mini cables that I've used at one time or another, most are cheap/generic from Amazon that I purchased for various uses over the years. None of them cause a buzz when connected to the NV10. So I wouldn't recommend any brand in particular, as I feel they're all suitable for the purpose.

Garritan CFX is 100% headphones for me, plugged directly into the Macbook. So I don't typically use the line-in, unless I feel I want a change of pace. For speaker output I just use the NV10's native sound. On the occasions when I do plug in a line-in cable, I just plug the iDefender between the USB cable and laptop, and connect the line-in to the DP. The only precaution I take is to make sure the master volume on the NV10 isn't set too high, to avoid accidentally blowing out the speakers (or waking up everyone in the house).
Posted By: Kawai James

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - line in volume level - 05/22/19 07:58 AM

Hello Giac,

Originally Posted by Giac
Recently I've also contacted my dealer (Furcht pianoforti) but he argues that NV10 is a very niche product so they have no technicians, so far, able to take responsability on doing something they have never done before (even if his service is top notch and one of the best!). I will have to wait much longer... Forum.pianoworld is my last resort right now.


May I ask you to send me a private message with your contact email address, please?

In addition, it would be useful if you could also send the correspondence that you sent (and received) from the dealer.

Thank you in advance.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: Gombessa

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - line in volume level - 05/22/19 05:39 PM

I tried a few more of my spare cables today, with interesting results:

[Linked Image]

All of these are fairly cheap freebie cables that have come with toys, car audio kits, PC speaker systems, or purchased from Amazon.

Most of them work fine. I can plug them in "freely" to the NV-10, without plugging the other end into an audio source, and turn the line-in volume knob to full. There is no hum. If I touch the tip or barrel of the connector, I can get a loud hum on the left (tip) or right (barrel) speakers, which seems normal to me.*

Two of these cables however, seem to have ineffective shielding. They will hum by themselves, and hum more loudly if I hold the cable in my hand or move the cable around (without touching the exposed connector). So I definitely agree with Mac to try a different cable and see if that solves the issue.


*Interestingly, I think the NV-10 may have a noise gate of sorts? If I plug a working cable into the NV-10 and touch the other end of the cable connector, it will cause a hum from the DP's speakers, but when I let go, the hum fades to a very low level, stays like that for a second, and then smoothly ducks to silence. I'm not sure what would cause that except for the DP monitoring the input and cutting it off when it senses no appreciable signal.
Posted By: Giac

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - line in volume level - 05/22/19 10:31 PM

Thank you very much Gombessa for your very helpful experiments. I will make other attempts, as you suggested, in order to sort out this problem (only for me apparently). Today I also tested line-in on my Kawai ES8 and I experienced the same issue: when I plug one of the two branded aux cables in "freely" a very loud noise starts to increse from internal speakers. Any other ideas? Or the previous reasons can be applied in this case too?
Posted By: Gombessa

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - line in volume level - 05/22/19 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by Giac
Today I also tested line-in on my Kawai ES8 and I experienced the same issue: when I plug one of the two branded aux cables in "freely" a very loud noise starts to increse from internal speakers. Any other ideas? Or the previous reasons can be applied in this case too?


If it happens on two DPs using the same cables, it's really sounding to me like the problem is with the cables and not the pianos...
Posted By: Kawai James

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - line in volume level - 05/22/19 11:14 PM

Thank you for checking Gombessa.

Yes, based on your tests, I expect the issue that Giac is experiencing may be caused by the cables - especially if the same hum sound occurs when connecting to the his/her ES8 also.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: Giac

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - line in volume level - 05/24/19 01:09 PM

I think I've solved the problem.
When I use VST programs, installed in my notebook, I usually keep a bluetooth mouse's flash drive plugged: it has been very comfortable for my workplace, until now.
Today I made another final attempt, by chance; I removed the bluetooth flash drive and suddenly the speaker's buzzing noise went away! It only remains a soft hiss when I turn up the volume, but for me is tolerable. I knew that there was something dumb hidden in it, but I can't explain its reasons at the moment.
I hope my case might help other people that use the same setup. Now I can get back to normality and enjoy my NV10 again. Thanks you all for you time and constant support.
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - line in volume level - 05/24/19 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by Giac
I think I've solved the problem.
When I use VST programs, installed in my notebook, I usually keep a bluetooth mouse's flash drive plugged: it has been very comfortable for my workplace, until now.
Today I made another final attempt, by chance; I removed the bluetooth flash drive and suddenly the speaker's buzzing noise went away! It only remains a soft hiss when I turn up the volume, but for me is tolerable. I knew that there was something dumb hidden in it, but I can't explain its reasons at the moment.
I hope my case might help other people that use the same setup. Now I can get back to normality and enjoy my NV10 again. Thanks you all for you time and constant support.

Was the flash drive plugged into the notebook connected to DP? Or into a USB port on the DP itself?
Posted By: Gombessa

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - line in volume level - 05/24/19 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by Giac

Today I made another final attempt, by chance; I removed the bluetooth flash drive and suddenly the speaker's buzzing noise went away!


Interesting--do you still get the him if the cable is plugged into the DP but not plugged into the laptop?
Posted By: Giac

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - line in volume level - 05/24/19 06:27 PM

The flash drive was plugged into the notebook connected to DP. I have two USB ports in the right side, next to each other, and only one in the left side of my notebook. If I plug the Bluetooth flash drive in the right side, where I always plug the USB type B and the AUX cables, obviously connected to NV10, I notice the buzzing noise I talked about previously. If I plug the Bluetooth flash drive in the left side of my PC (also with the USB type B and AUX cables connected in the right side) the noise seems to be a lot reduced. When I unplug the Bluetooth flash drive definitively, the noise goes away.
Posted By: Giac

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - line in volume level - 05/24/19 10:59 PM

Not quite, I mean... Before I did another experiment. When I use the cable on the loose, without connecting it with any device, I experiment the same buzzing noise problem from the speaker (the issue persists by the way). Then I did a strange attempt: I rolled up the AUX cable and stucked it with a wire, connecting it to line-in port at the same time. The result is like a "ball of thread" dangling over the line-in port suspended in air, under the piano, WITHOUT touching floor: and by that the noise went away! This case made me reflect on some physical stuff (I'm not a scientist ahah...); I tried to move my hand close to the dangling cable and I noticed that the noise was coming out as strong as my hand was closer to the cable. What I can now deduct is that, in my case, when this "free" AUX cable (connected to line-in but not with a device...) is near something "human material", touching the ground or something else, the buzzing noise comes out the speakers. I think there is an electromagnetic interaction through the corps that causes this phenomenon: indeed, if I also touch with a finger the end of the AUX cable (the one that is not connected to line-in port) it generates a crackling from speakers. This is what I found out with the case of cable plugged into line-in port but not into the laptop. On the other hand, when I use my VST, I've just resolved with simply removing a bluetooth flash-drive from my notebook (previously explained).
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - line in volume level - 05/24/19 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by Giac
I tried to move my hand close to the dangling cable and I noticed that the noise was coming out as strong as my hand was closer to the cable.

This is why.
Posted By: Kawai James

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - line in volume level - 05/27/19 01:47 AM

Thanks for the update Giac!

I'm glad to hear that you have managed to resolve this issue by removing the Bluetooth USB dongle from your laptop.

I wondered if this could also be related to the NV10's Bluetooth Audio controller, but recalled that you also hear the same noise on your ES8 (which does not feature Bluetooth), so it's unlikely to be the case.

Kind regards,
James
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