I have had my Kawai MP7SE for 9 months now and the switches under the keys
are going bad for the second time. The first time I started getting maximum volume
at random times from several keys. You get a headache when it happens, not fun.

Now one key does not get louder with more pressure or hitting it harder. The D just
above middle C.

I have only been playing the keyboard for a few weeks since all the key switches were
replaced with brand new ones (or maybe used ones ... I wonder).

After getting the keyboard back with new switches the LCD was blank. It had to be
replaced.

Don't get a Kawai MP7SE. Based on my experience, they are not durable, quite the
opposite, very fragile.

It looks like I wasted $1800.

Is there anybody else who has had this much trouble with Kawai keyboards?

I'm not hitting the keys that hard. My Yamaha pf80 was used when I bought it in
1987 and it lasted for 4 years without any problems.

Which keyboard is durable and has professional sounds, suitable for making
recordings? The Kawai sounds are disappointing, IMO.

BTW, the Kawai MP11 that I had for one week on a trial basis, had a problem with
3 keys, so I returned it.

Hello Paul, welcome back to the forum.

I'm sorry to read that one of the keys on your MP7SE is not working correctly.

My recommendation would be to consult with Kawai America to have the issue resolved under warranty.

Browsing through your previous posts to the forum, I see that you previously owned an MP7, ES8, and MP11 before the MP7SE, so it's unfortunate that you're experiencing difficulties with your most recent Kawai.

Kind regards,
James
x

If the board is 9 months old you didn't waste you money. After 3 repair attempts you can ask them to undo the purchase and get your money back.

IIRC all Digitals can have action problems. You read least about Yamaha but problems do exist there too.
As for the sounds: just get a VST of your choice and never bother with internal sounds again.

Thanks Granyala. I got it from Sweetwater. I will ask them to undo the purchase price and see what happens.

Thanks Kawai James. I already went through that process once and it was very disappointing. I was without a working
keyboard for about 3 months total. I'm ready to move on to another keyboard company.

Wow, and I was so close to pulling the trigger on buying an MP7SE.... No way now.

Hi Paul,

I have to say (at least on this forum) whilst all brands come up with key issues Kawai seems to be prevalent with keys malfunctioning one way or another & this has put me off the brand.

Yesterday I checked out the ES8, MP7SE & then MP11SE, found the RH3 on the first two a bit on the light side but the MP11SE was nothing short of pure awesomeness; however at £2K here in the UK if that would go wrong I'd be p*ssed just like I was with the HP605.

Some people tried to blame the shipping process, I find that hard to believe unless the courier is dropping boxes from 10-feet high. It's more likely to be a QC thing or just bad assembly lines. However in your case, even a repair doesn't seem to work...totally see how you are ready to move on.

J

I think digital piano buyers need to demand better quality control from Keyboard / digital piano manufacturers. Instead of just buying a DP based solely on its action and / or sound, we need to start making quality control our primary priority. And sure no DP/keyboard manufacturer can claim to posses perfect quality control. But there definitely are those that are better than others. I too avoid Kawais and Casios. I only consider Yamaha and Roland, and prefer Yamaha to Roland. And yes the Yamahas might not sound as nice as the others nor have as nice of an action. But the darned things are most likely to actually function as intended without breaking down 15 times every year.

Also acoustic pianos last forever, sure they need to be tuned and maintained once a year, but they can literally last for decades or even centuries. DP manufacturers need to design their DPs to last at least 10 years. Not 2 years. This planned obsolescence crap is not good and should not be encouraged.

Totally agree!

The first time the key switches went bad, I called Kawai Repair in California. The guy said it was probably the shipping
that caused the problem. So I put the keyboard in my mini-van on carpet (which is on 2 inches of foam padding) and
drove 30 miles to Mid-America Piano where an approved technician installed the new key switches. I then drove back
home.

About one month after I started playing, now I have another bad key. The key does not respond to more pressure
like all the keys around it. D above middle C. So ... it was not the shipping this time. I doubt it was the shipping, the
first time, because the Kawai keyboard box was originally shipped inside of a larger box with plastic air pillows surrounding
it. I have a feeling that Sweetwater knows they need to protect the Kawai keyboards because of this problem.

The first time the switches started going bad (after 3 months of playing), I told Sweetwater that I wanted to return the
keyboard. They became very silent and didn't want to talk about that subject.

Paul in the future, I highly recommend buying a Yamaha instead. Not because I'm a Yamaha fanboy but because at least for now Yamaha is the Honda of DPs i.e. their DP's don't break down as often and tend to have the least problems and the longest life. The minute Kawai's QC gets better than Yamaha's. I'd immediately switch to Kawai or whoever.

I also suggest buying from a local store that can manage any problems for you and get that extended warranty.

And Just because Yamaha has the best QC out of the DP manufacturers, it doesn't mean that their QC is good enough.

Thanks halherta. My Yamaha pf80 was very reliable in 1987-1992.

About Sweetwater. They want to send it back to Kawai to have it repaired.
Why should I keep getting it repaired every 2-3 months? Totally insane.

I once bought a YDP-143 (2nd hand) and drove it 200 miles on a blanket in the back of a rented van. Played daily and kept for 7-8 months and then moved it again as we moved houses...and then sold to a person who was a classically trained pianist (she got an amazing sound of it when she tested the piano before buying - kinda made me regret selling but by that time I had my sights on the Roland) which they drove it back to theirs (some 60 miles away I recall) and a few weeks later they called me to say how happy they were with it. I am willing to bet it's still going strong...

The Honda of DPs is so true. Try and sneeze on a Kawai and see how far you get 😁

Haven't heard many reported problems with the VPC-1, which is why it's in my sights now.

It's not all about Kawai. I had a problem with my six-month-old Clavinova. It had one always-loud key. It was repaired in-home under warranty.
It happened again about a year later. A different key. But for some reason the cause was different and it was not covered under warranty.

Then about four years later a strip of contact pads had one broken dome. I replaced that octave strip ... and three others just for good measure.

It's also had all the keys lubed three different times. And it's about time to lubed it once again.

So ... for all the talk about how digital pianos are "maintenance free" compared to acoustic pianos ... well it just aint so, Joe.

Me too. Here's how I figure it:

The VPC-1 is $1,850. Take away say, $250 for the 'case' it's in, and you've got $1,600 of keyboard action.

The MP11SE is $2,800. It's got what many say is a keyboard action roughly equivalent, maybe a teeny bit better than the VPC-1. So let's give the action here a value of $1700. $1,700 + $250 case = $1,950. The $850 balance is for the electronics.

Now, to the MP7SE. $1800. Case: $250. Electronics - let's say $650. What's left is a $900 keyboard action assembly. That's just about half the cost of the VPC-1's action.

I'm sure I'm a lot off here & there... but you get the idea. Either the MP7SE has a lot less keyboard action or, if I'm totally goofy with this, then the VPC-1, at $50 more than the '7 for just a keyboard action and no electronics, is over priced.

Point is, the MP7SE and the VPC-1 can't BOTH be wonderful and reliable actions. My money's on the VPC-1. And as soon as NAMM happens, I'm spending it.

Here is the response I got from Sweetwater:

"We have been working with Kawai for decades and have not experienced these issues before.
I know we would not be selling their products if we knew they were not usually high quality.
I am truly sorry you have been having these issues. Unfortunately, there is no way we would
be able to take a return on something that was sold nearly a year ago."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I guess I just have to get it repaired every 2 months, until the 2-year warrantee runs out.
I wonder if they will give me a loaner while the original one is being repaired in California?

So, I am the first person in decades that has these issues ????? I don't buy it.

OUCH! I just read this at the bottom of Kawai's Oct 11, 2017 announcement of the MP7SE and MP11SE:

Class-leading keyboard actions, stunning acoustic piano sounds, intuitive real-time control, and excellent build quality.
The new Kawai MP11SE and M7SE: Professional stage pianos for performers who do not accept compromise.

(the Bold is my doing).

.

Leaving key issues to the side for a second, have you compared the actions of the VPC1 against the MP11SE?

As far as I’m concerned the MP11SE Grand Feel action is second to none (subjectively of course). Tried it and despite reading about QC issues had I the money to spare I’d buy it in a heartbeat and deal with any potential fallout later..

When we pay $1000-$4000 bucks for a piano its supposed to be for a fully functional piano with no broken keys from the get go. Some wear and tear is understandable over time. Some maintenance work might be needed in 2-5 years. Anything less than that is simply unacceptable.

Right now buying a DP; especially an expensive one, feels like buying a raffle ticket for a half decent piano. Depending on your luck, you end up with a good one or a bad one. And if you get a bad one, you're stuck with it. Welcome to Vegas everyone. I also find that QC at all Keyboard manufacturers has deteriorated significantly over time. And this is primarily because consumers are not demanding it strongly enough. We need to be very picky about QC.

There needs to be more emphasis on releasing DPs with quality builds perhaps once a decade and less emphasis on throwaway disposable builds being released once every couple of years with slightly fancier electronics. Again these pianos are not cheap! their build quality needs to be reflected in their price.

I can understand if a $500 DP gets a broken key just after a year. A $2000 DP shouldn't have any broken keys for at least 4 years!!!.

DuvSliders, isn't the action on the 7 and the VPC1 identical? RHIII? I have thought about this myself. The MP 7 seems to give a lot more bang for the buck, except the intense velocity curve aspect. PianoManChuck raves about the VPC1 action. If it is the same as the 7 it seems equivalent to an average upright, IMO. I spent hours today comparing the action of the 7 and 11 today. Silently there is a secondary noise on the 7 that simply does not exist with the 11 grand feel action. I am not saying the 7 is broken, just that it is pretty inferior mechanically, at least as far as key noise is concerned. If the 7s action is the same as the VPC1 than I am glad I have passed it over. It is more a testimony as to how other brand actions are poor in comparison to something mediocre. I also tried the grand feel 2 briefly and it did indeed seem tighter and better feeling than the grand feel 1. ( I think the grand feel 1 is excellent for what it is, btw)

That being said I tried some Kawai grands. Very disappointing! Sound and action wise. Then I tried a Steinway. Very disappointing! Haha. I have played on a restored 1915 Steinway B for the last thirty years. Far and away better for me than the Steinway I played today. It is subjective after all, and each acoustic instrument is different, with different strengths and weaknesses. But in dps? Shouldn't be that way. However, you cannot expect a silk purse from a sow's ear. For two grand the 7s action and its accompanying sound engine, effects and piano samples is more than acceptable. The VPC1? Something is rotten in Denmark if the action is identical to the 7.

IosPlayer - No, it is not.

The VPC-1 uses the RM3II, while the MP7SE employs the RHIII.

If what you supposed was correct, then you could virtually get a VPC-1 plus all the electronics for $50 less than the VPC-1.

Here's a link describing and illustrating the various Kawai actions: Kawai Actions

The RHIII looks to be all plastic.

Indeed. The ES8 and MP7SE share the same action and its plastic keys...hence why IOSplayer felt the slightly inferiority in that RHIII

Thanks DuvSliders and jamiecw, I googled them. No similarity whatsoever! Now I'd like to try the VPC1!

I just got a call from Sweetwater. They said, since I am having so much trouble with the keyboard, they are willing to
give me a refund and repair this keyboard and resell it as a demo. So it looks like Sweetwater is living up to their moto,
of providing the best customer support in the business.

Good, Paul. Thanks for the info. Please let us know what keyboard you buy to replace it. I'll be buying when I'm sure there's something reliable in a slab that works somewhat like an acoustic action.

The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.... ;-)

After a lot of complaining, an initial refusal to deal with it satisfactorily, and someone on their end eventually realizing that this thread here wasn't doing any favours for their image.

None of these things should be necessary to get something like this dealt with, in my opinion. Is that really the best customer support in the business?

The keyboard expert at Sweetwater recommended that I look at the Yamaha 515, a new release,
with new action with wood keys and way better piano sounds. The Yamaha CP4 replacement is
not available yet.

Yes, a win for the good guy!
And a nasty surprise for someone else

It's good that they decided to give you a refund. To be honest Kawai is more at fault here. But I'm glad that sweetwater helped resolve this situation. They just went up in my book.

The P-515 from what I've been able to gather would be a very good piano. The CP4 is excellent as well but a little outdated especially when you compare its specs to those of the P-515. An update for the CP4 is due but I don't think anyone knows when it will happen. Probably sometime in 2019.

Who's the "keyboard expert" at Sweetwater? The guy I've been talking to there purports to not having heard of any issues with the new MP7SE and MP11SE.

Ben Allen
Sweetwater Sales Engineer
Phone: (800) 222-4700 ext. 3045
E-mail: Ben_Allen@sweetwater.com
www.sweetwater.com/Ben_Allen

That's great. I'm gonna' steal that.

Thanks, Paul. Now that's what I call service.

It was my understanding that he is the keyboard expert, above.
He said he plays every keyboard that comes in and knows them
well.

At this point, I really would like to work with someone who is NOT
a salesman, who wants to advise me. It has been a bad experience,
mostly because $1800 was a financial stretch for me, as I'm a
starving artist.

I was told (by another salesman) "We have been working with Kawai for decades and ..."
Like I was the first one in the history of the world who had a problem.
Total BS.

In the end, we're all on our own. Research, research, research. Mentally I've been all around the VPC-1 - MP7SE - MP11SE merry go round. Now I'm back to my starting point - the VPC-1. And that's for one reason.

I started out by saying "we're on our own." But that's not exactly true. We have each other - via forums like this.

Openly sharing information with each other is critical to making an informed decision. That, and patience. Don't have an itchy trigger finger. I thought I was going to have ordered a new keyboard by this week, sticking my head out the front door every 10 minutes looking for the truck.

But now, I've dug and dug and found a 'hidden' Kawai dealer 13 miles away, feel secure in going back to my original desire for a VPC-X. And feel secure in not succumbing to the bells & whistles of the couple of new models herein under much discussion.

And that "X" is not a mistake. I'm holding out a dozen weeks to see if anything new turns up at NAMM '19. It'll either be a VPC-2 or ol' reliable (relatively speaking) VPC-1.

Thank you to all of you who contribute to this forum - our 'data base.'

Keep sharing information!

It has been a little while since I wrote anything here, but I've been a member a long while, so I figured I would chime in!

I encourage any of you to reach out to me if you have questions about anything keys related. I was a part of this forum long before I came to work at Sweetwater. It is my joy and privilege to serve and provide the best possible service to my customers, just as it was given to me. My Nord Piano 3 debacle is famous by now, and it is the reason why I now work at Sweetwater. I cannot speak for the company directly, but I can tell you that our culture at Sweetwater is written right on the wall, and it is our motto. "Always do the right thing"...full stop, period. It has nothing to do with how it looks from the outside - it is all about making sure that I personally, treat you the way I want to be treated. I had never encountered a company that was willing to put my needs before their interests, and when I was given the opportunity to come work for them, I jumped at the chance.


I try to be as transparent as possible, and I am a musician myself before I am a salesman. The truth is, ANY piece of equipment made by humans, is subject to have failures of some kind, at some point in its lifespan. I sincerely wish that none of my keyboards ever had problems, but that just isn't the reality. No brand is exempt, and if you called and asked me, I'd tell you the same thing. The brands I sell, are really really great partners, and without exception, they care deeply about any issues people are having with their gear. I maintain that it is more important to purchase whatever you buy, from a company that supports the brands it sells, and much more importantly, stands behind you as a customer, 100%. This is what I experienced as a customer before coming to work at Sweetwater - and this is why I work there now. I love visiting the forums, here, and elsewhere, and as a musician, I have my eyes and ears on the issues that arise with musical gear. The more important thing, is what happens once those issues are raised. As Paul can attest, that is the most important point. That is where I come in. It is my goal, to serve the keyboard community in general, and my customers specifically, by providing the truth as I hear, see, and "feel" it in the keyboard world. This is why for fun, I do keyboard demos and reviews on my YouTube channel, which is just my own thing- what you see, is just me being raw and open with the camera, and having fun playing the instruments we all love. Nobody pays me for that, it is just my passion, and always has been. Now, I get to sell these instruments for a living, and at the risk of being too open, I'll tell you if I wouldn't buy something, or if I have concerns about it. I actually DO play everything I can get my hands on, and I use these instruments extensively - I consider that necessary to be able to talk about them with my customers, but beyond that, it is just plain fun to talk shop with other keys players, and I feel I need to know what I am talking about. In a world of guitarists and drummers, I might be the odd man out - but I can live with that.

Just my 2 cents.


Ben

OK.... You asked for it:

I was really close to getting an MP7SE (the 11 is just too big and heavy). Given that Kawai is DOA now, here are my priorities for a new keyboard:

1. Rugged long term reliability

2. Action similar to an acoustic grand

3. Slab form factor, weight up to about 50 pounds, reasonably compact.

4. Price preferably under $3500, wife will kill me at $5000.

5. Reasonable piano sound, not too many bells and whistles.

6. Speakers not necessary, headphones for practice, plug into house system for gigs.

What would you recommend?


BTW, I looked at the Sweetwater web site -- amazing place, I wish we had one near LA.

I've owed a fair number dps over the last 40yrs of pro keyboards. Had my MP7SE since July, so far it's been fine. In fact from most aspects it had far exceeded my expectations.

Back in 2008/2009 I had a Roland RD700Gx.. after 3 months the ivory effect keytops were flaking badly. I was mortified that Roland could launch such a defective instrument onto the market. They replaced my keybed twice under warranty, things didn't improve, much as I wished they would!, after the second time I sold the keyboard on eBay.
Not everyone had this experience with the 700gx or indeed the 700nx

Moral you can never be sure your experience is applicable to everyone. There are some situation s that cause problems, these situations are often unique.

For me at any rate, the Kawai MP7SE, it's sounds and action are great. 3months in after heavy use the MP7SE is a good keyboard. One that by comparison to Nord, Kurzweil, Roland and Yamaha is pretty well made.

i’ll vouch for ben allen (user macsaint777) of sweetwater anytime!

also love my recently purchased yamaha p515!

Jefsco, with the yamaha p515, have you tried recording the lineIn input? it doesn't say in the manual whether that would get recorded as well (unless I missed that).

John, I think you have to accept that there is no action "similar" to an acoustic grand. In fact, each acoustic grand action has its own personality, which is why pros haunt the Steinway showrooms of the world looking for that " perfect" piano... for them. This has been repeated over and over on this forum, but we still cling to our expectations that a digital piano should emulate the action of a great acoustic. They simply don't which is why you might spend 50k or more for a good instrument. Or a hundred, which is still a joke compared to the hundreds of thousands for a great violin or cello. So what can we expect for 5k? Not very much and quite a bit at the same time. My experience is on a Steinway B, yet, in my present circumstances ( living in a two bedroom apartment in Istanbul I am avidly trying to get my hands on the only MP11 ( not se) for sale in this city of over twenty million. Why? Because it is the closest I can get to something that is midi and feels good to play for a few grand. Every famous grand is double the price here. So if I get this 11 I will be grateful. Compared to the synth actions I have been playing here it will be heavenly, ( actually the Casio and Roland synth actions have been fine. I have created some of my best stuff on them).

Frankly, I do not accept the global prevalence of Kawai problems as generated here. Macsaint is a pro at Sweetwater and I think you can believe what he says about the major brands. I am not denying the truth of what people are posting. If you read Roland uses grease in its actions, or Yamaha's keys are narrower on their slabs ( they are) or Casio sucks ( they do not) some will experience problems while others do not. This one lone Kawai in Istanbul I am trying to purchase for a reasonable price has been on the showroom for at least two years and it works perfectly.

Some people will only buy a Ford. Others have only had problems with Ford. If a Ford has worked for you great. If it only causes you problems, lick your wounds and try a Chevy.

On the iOS forum I participate in Apple is the Stalin of corporations. It is hated, villified and criticized for every decision it makes purposely intended to hurt the niche population of people who produce music on the iPad ( ridiculous). Yet we all love them and use them because it is not really possible to produce music on Android and, frankly, Apple has created and improved a miraculous device. Still, it is a great pleasure to tear down a trillion dollar corporation that does not meet a few individuals' expectations. What power!

Honestly, you only really need a "great" action if you are a great player. Until you can express yourself to the limit of your tools all that extra nuance is unusable till you are equal to it in your playing, which is why a great player can make the worst instrument acceptable or even startling.
Let us deal with our expectations of ourselves first, and then our tools. Just my opinion, of course and it is always a little thrill to spout off!

I am sure you know about irony, John. You probably would have been terrifically happy with the 7se (it is a great board for the money with a kind of upright style action, tho not similar!) but instead you bought a Yamaha and it just happens to be the one in ten thousand that Atsuko spilt
her tea in ( do they even make Yamaha in Japan). Get what feels best realizing none of them feel best!

A monk was in the marketplace. He overheard a woman talking to the butcher. "Give me your best piece of meat!" She says. The butcher replies, "Why madam, they are all the best piece!" The monk was enlightened. You pays yer money and yer takes yer chance.... in everything.

Well said, Ios'.

Well said? I don't think so ...That's nonsensical. If I try to make sense of that ... by excluding acoustic grand actions for the comparison ... then there's the Avant Grand and some of its predecessors. They have actual grand actions. There are other, non-actuals that are similar to grand actions. Just similar. So how can anyone say there is no action "similar" to an acoustic grand. It's baffling.

Yes, I suppose some expect so. Some expectations are met. (Ask Dave Horne.)

And yet more silliness ...

Or maybe it's not silliness after all ...It was just "spouting off".

Ios,
Personally I prioritize reliability and durability over action or sounds. Unfortunately Kawai & Casio are notorious for clicky keys and other QC issues. This is evident from post after post on this very forum describing QC issues with these brands. Why take the risk? For the sound? At the end of the day I can always get better sounds with VSTs anyways. For the action? As you said, action is really only important if you have reached a certain degree of skill. And even then, a skilled player can probably make a cheap keyboard sound really nice. Yamaha DPs are generally speaking the most reliable and have acceptable sound and action (if not the best). So I always buy Yamaha. If I find a more reliable and durable brand, then I switch to that when the time comes to purchase.

When looking for a DP, I expect this DP to last 5 Years before it needs major maintenance. I need this so I can play/practice, not necessarily to enjoy a refined action or incremental dynamism in sound. Besides, what's the point of buying a DP with the refined action and incremental dynamism in sound when every time I hit one or more keys I hear and feel 'clickety clackety' in the background?

Yes at the end of the day you can still get a lemon even from Yamaha. But DP buyers owe it to themselves to take as many precautions as possible, including buying DP from the most reliable brands to minimize the possibility of wasting their hard earned money on a lemon.

There's a reason why Honda and Toyota sell the most cars, and its not because their cars are fast, or look pretty. It's because they're reliable.

Respectfully MacMacMac, I. Must disagree. Firstly, I am talking a different price category than the Avantgrand. Most people, including myself, don't want to or are not able to spend more than three thousand. That is an actual hammer action to be sure. And as far as similar... how many grands have you played where the action does not appeal to you and yet someone else adores it. There is not one grand action in the Bureau of Weights and Measures by which all "similar" actions are judged, I believe. And so again, I ask, similar to what?

. Again, respectfully, if you think what I am saying about players and actions is "more silliness" I would like to know more of what your experience with acoustic actions is and what your playing level is. Only then would I have to ask myself if my own experience and understanding is misinformed. Perhaps it is, but you have not convinced me with a dismissive remark and no back up point of view. So. Please, write on.

Halherta, I greatly appreciate your soundly reasoned point of view. But I still do not wish to see Kawai convicted of poor quality when the sample is significantly less than 100 ( correct me if I am wrong here) and that whatever the number is it is a small, small percentage of the total Kawai units sold worldwide. It takes quite a number of positive comments ( I have heard from 4 to 16)
To balance out one negative. People with problems justifiably have a right to complain, but, dare I say it, the "silent majority" may think otherwise. It is not proven, to my way of thinking, that Kawai is better or worse than other major brands.

You are happy with Yamaha, and it is surely a great company (Not for me personally, btw) so you are like the Ford owner who loves Fords. But you mention Toyota, so let me remind you that Toyota has had massive recalls that have cost injuries and hundreds of millions in costs. I am just trying to suggest, as MacSaint does, that all large companies have quality control issues. The sampling posted here on Kawai does not sound outlandish to me when the posters are dedicated and detail oriented users wanting a perfect product. Some YouTube problems posted are not even hearable in their playback. I am not saying these users are not justified in seeking the best instrument possible. Especially if the company touts its build standards. I am just saying those complaints are possibly louder than the actual situation.

And yes, vsts are superior to those who can hear all the differences from a high end sampled dp piano.
But people are regularly posting lists of the things they want. Best action, best sound, most reliable. Sure, why not? Will they ever find this dream for a couple of grand?

I check this forum on an almost daily basis. And every time I check it, there's at least two posts on the front page about Kawai QC problems. These QC problems seem to be found mostly on the portable pianos. I imagine the more expensive Kawai console pianos are somewhat immune to this. And sure Yamahas have their problems too, but not as frequent despite the fact that there are most certainly more Yamahas out there than Kawais. Even on other forums with more Yamaha owners the QC issues are not as frequent or confined to a particular model. Casios own DP forums are also riddled with QC issues.

Also when lame excuses are made; like the DP got damaged during shipping, or the buyer doesn't know what striking a piano key sounds like, it don't help the situation. My view is that even if a single lemon DP is manufactured and purchased by a customer, the DP manufacturer has room to improve their QC and should most definitely replace that customer's lemon.



Like I said, Yamaha is not perfect in anyway. Quite flawed actually, but they have the best QC out of all the other major manufacturers. Just ask anyone in the business of repairing DPs and they'll confirm this. And just because all DP manufacturers have QC issues does not mean that it is OK or acceptable. It really is not OK at all. And those DP manufacturers that do have better QC need to be given at least some credit so they can continue focusing on and improving their QC. Buyers need to be reminded of this from time to time.

Again I prefer Yamaha because they make the most reliable pianos and have the best QC, not because I work for them nor because I'm a loyal fanboy. I actually would like other manufacturers to step up their QC game. More competition is good for everyone so is better QC.



A couple of grand is still a lot of dough to spend on a digital piano that becomes a piece of junk a couple of months after the purchase because the DP manufacturer has poor QC.

In any case we can always agree to disagree about these matters. I simply want to live in a world where when I purchase a DP, I don't have to stress about broken keys for at least 3-4 years.

I value your comments, halherta. Very well informed and presented. I am about to buy an MP11. Am I making a big mistake?

I personally wouldn't. But if your heart is set on it then go for it. At the very least try it out before you take it home, check all the keys one by one for key noise/clicks and get an extended warranty on it if possible. By virtue of the fact that you are on this forum and you posting on this thread, you are already aware of the potential risks that come with the Kawai DPs( and to a lesser extent other DPs as well). I wish you all the best and I really hope that you end up getting a good one.

Thanks halherta, I have already done as you suggested, played it for several hours comparing it to a 7se, carefully listened to all the keys silent running, and all seems okay. I just cannot find its equal in action ( for me) on a slab piano so I probably will chance it. Coming from a reputable dealer with their warranty as well. I have noticed Kawai James is pretty silent these days. Hmmm.
Thanks again!

Paul - sorry to hear about your problems with the Kawai but happy for you that it seems to have been rectified. It does sound like a time wasting/sucking nightmare !

I've had the CP4 since May of 2014 and it saw many gigs in the first three years of ownership. In the last 14 months or so, not very much as I mostly play acoustic piano on my jobs. I will say in spite of the often criticized "flimsy build quality", I haven't had a second's problem with anything related to the keyboard action or switches.

The CP4 now resides in my office next to the home computer and it gets played everyday. Although nowhere near as many hours as my piano, which resides is a separate studio, detached from the house. So I would recommend that or the newer P515, which I would like to have for the office because of the speakers. I get tired of wearing phones.

I agree, in general, QC is lacking on all manufacturers. Reading the different forums, there seem to be problems everywhere. I too owned an older Yamaha, the P120, and it saw hundreds of gigs in close to 10 years before it finally started having sticking keys. At which point Yamaha replaced the keybed free of charge and I paid $75 for the installation. Unfortunately I feel those days are gone for good.

I've had excellent history with the Yamahas on electronic keyboards, so I don't deviate from them.

John, again for me, I haven't played anything I've liked better then the CP4 for what I do , mainly Jazz. And I would expect the P515 to be an improvement on that.

I bought my kawai mp7se just 1 month ago. It 's really sad to read these things for me, I hope I have no problems in the future .....

Hi, I have just come from a reading of 53 pages from the Kawai MP7 thread which started in
2014! It was rather insightful. Over the four years since its posting about four users had key issues with the MP7. All seem to still be Kawai users. I mention OneWatt as someone who had a problem but stuck with it and seems very satisfied. Also Lophiomyus (sorry about the spelling) seems to be someone who has had problems but still uses Kawai. There were two others, I believe. I recommend this reading to anyone interested in Kawai products.

That being said, there may be some specific new problem with the 7se. Still, how many users are having the problem and how far out of the norm is that compared with other brands? The 7se does have a new action, but it is a new action for this model, I believe. For sure it could be problematic, but it is a new model and Kawai may be addressing, though not publicizing it,

Btw, here is one post I copied out:

Your review earlier about the CP4 compared to the MP7 was on the money. I totally feel like Yamaha needs to go back to the drawing board to justify the $2200-2300 price tag. I too felt the action "lossening" to a P-105 kind of feel after my 3 weeks with it.

Now, I am not saying this is a quality control problem for Yamaha. I am just saying there are always problems and some people, thru the law of averages, have really bad luck.

I am not employed by Kawai. My only interest is purchasing an MP11 because, for me, its action is relatively the best in the price range. On the other hand, if Kawai is perhaps not better or worse than the other big guys, it seems unfair to judge the entire quality control program to be insufficient due to a small number of problems... which seem like a lot of problems because of repeated posts about them. For users to be denied what are obviously superior boards ( check the enthusiasm in 53 pages of post over four years),because there are always legitimate problems mixed in with great successes, seems a shame. When I read that a potential user will not buy an MP7se or an 11, or any Kawai keyboard because of posts on this forum, I am sad for the user, who may buy something more expensive or something of less quality unnecessarily. Of course I would like to hear what Kawai would honestly say about this, but we all know what they must do. Eisenhower's admitting that Gary Powers flew the U2 over Russia taught us that!
I just don't think Yamaha, or Roland, or Casio or Nord or Korg would do any differently if they had a problem with a specific model..

I certainly am open to other points of view, and it does seem like I am beating a dead horse, but I am a great admirer of Henry Fonda's role in Twelve Angry Men. I don't mind being a singular voice speaking an opposite way of looking at this issue and I am pretty sure there are others who might agree with me but do not post their opinions. I just think those who read this forum considering a Kawai purchase should have as much data as possible. Thanks for listening!

Just for the accuracy of statement:
I do still have the MP7, but mostly as a toy piano for my daughter, because the user interface and all the knobs on the MP7 are quite intuitive to her.

I myself got happy with with a second hand Yamaha P45 and Pianoteq for silent practice on headphones! Not one sinlge hassle with this combination.

From my perspective,
I would not buy any Kawai digital any more, especially not at the advertised prices. It is all made cheaply "somewhere in South East Asia" and I will have to put a budget aside for repairs and the at the beginning of the troubles the customer experience with Kawai was upsetting, though it got better towards the end.

HTH

Thanks for the comment, lophiomys. Duly noted. Just out of curiosity, are Yamahas made in Japan?

I just googled: Kawai are made in Japan and Indonesia. Yamahas are made in Japan and Indonesia.

That would be interesting, which ones of the Yamahas and Kawais would be "Made in Japan"?

Hi lophiomys, I believe the higher end grands for both companies are made in Japan. That would make sense. Here is another post I copied from OneWatt about his experience with his MP. Not sure what this says about a Kawai QC, except that any company can get a bad batch of a sourced out component. In this case a Kawai is sterling on the follow up.

Originally Posted by Bouncy Nugget
Originally Posted by OneWatt
Sounds like the problem was properly diagnosed ... i.e., bad rubber contact sensors (an acknowledged part defect).

Are you saying Kawai has acknowledged a fault with the MP7 rubber contacts?


I do not know if Kawai made any official announcements. But I will say that, when I contacted Kawai (USA) about the problem, the issue I described was immediately acknowledged and they arranged for free replacement of the two circuit boards (which serve all 88 keys) by a local Kawai-authorized repair service.

Originally Posted by Iaroslav Vasiliev
If the defect shows up during the warranty period and it is not fixed completely during that period, I think you have right to ask for cost-free repair even after the end of warranty period. Just don't forget to save all documents concerning the repairs.


I will add that I brought the issue to Kawai's attention shortly after my warranty period had expired.

So, while I cannot say that Kawai has made any formal notice of defect, nor that the policy/practice is universal, I can say that (with my simply contacting them), the problem was readily acknowledged, the parts and labor were provide at no cost, and this took place after my factory warranty had formally ended.

I was also told by the local Kawai-authorized tech who did the replacement work that the new boards are not known to exhibit the issue that caused the problem in the original batch.

In short: In my experience, Kawai goes out of its way to treat folks fairly when an issue arises and, while no company is perfect, they acted in a way that shows a commitment to preserving their reputation for quality. That's why I remain a repeat customer.

While I can't guaranty what Kawai might do in your particular situation - either now or in the future - perhaps this alleviates some of the concerns you've expressed. - OneWatt

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Well, IMO, if they were really "sterling" on the follow up, regarding a known issue about a bad batch of whatevers, they would've issued a "recall" for all involved serial numbers.

lophiomys, we think alike. I also have a P-125 and use it with Pianoteq. It is an excellent setup for practice.



Where a DP is manufactured is for the most part irrelevant. What's very relevant is the QC practices and part tolerances used. These can be excellent or crap in either
Japan or Indonesia.

DuvSliders, respectfully, I am not sure I agree from a business standpoint. This is not like a car where people might die. If only 5% of the MP7s have problems it does not make sense to fix them all, but to address each instance as it arises. In OneWatt's case the warranty was ended. Kawai did not greedily deny him. They fixed it. I agree it is not a perfect solution for the user, but economically, for the company, it was probably the right decision. By definition a corporation is sociopathic ( with the exception of Sweetwater, it seems). Yamaha or Casio would act the same, I believe. Can you point to any recalls that say otherwise? Has there ever been a recall on any keyboard you know of!? They are all the same when making economic decisions. I just don't think Kawai should be judged by a separate standard.

In addition, Kawai seems to give good value for a reasonable price, like Casio. The difference being people accept the value Casio gives with all its noisy warts, but Kawai sets itself on a higher level, I think. The whole acoustic piano builder bit. So maybe Kawai is asking for it when it comes to quality control issues.

Hi all. New member here. I just picked up a Kawai MP7SE on eBay for cheap ($370 incl. shipping). It looks like it was dropped. There's a big dent on the front and five bad keys. All the keys work, but four are intermittent and one (A1) is actually broken, but still plays fine (go figure). I figured it was worth the risk. I'm going to start tearing into it today to try to reset the rubber pads in the section with the intermittent keys, or replace them if necessary. Then I'll straighten out the dent the best I can. Hopefully I can order a new A1 key. I've fixed theses types of problems before, so I'm hopeful. I'll let you know how I fare.

I've been a Yamaha guy since as far back as I can remember. I currently use an old P250 in my studio and a CP4 when gigging. I plan to replace the P250 with a P515, if I like it. I haven't tried one yet. I've played a Kawai MP11SE and it is by far the best action I've ever played on a digital. But I won't cart one of those things around, If I don't like the P515, I may go fr the MP11SE in my studio. BTW, I was not impressed by the Yamaha CP88.

I'm curious about the Casio PX560. Anybody tried one?

Welcome!

Somebody charged you $370 for a broken keyboard?

Can I sell you my old keyboard? It's not broken (yet)

Yes, someone sold me an $1800 keyboard for $370 including shipping. It's still under warranty, btw. I guess they didn't think about that. If you want to sell me your Kawai MP7SE for the same price, I'll buy it, broken or not.

It's turning out to be tricky to fix this thing. I took it apart and checked, cleaned and reinstalled all the rubber contacts on the bad keys, then reassembled it. Now I have six bad keys. LOL. It turns out that the board with the contacts has to be placed exactly right in relation to the keys. So I will try again until I get it right.

Wait! If it is still under warranty, why not call Kawai? Or I suppose the warranty probably doesn't cover accidental damage, does it?

Always a bit of a lottery buying something broken with a hope you have the skills to fix it (done it myself) and nab yourself a bargain that way.
$370 for a damaged, newish MP7SE? Might well have been sorely tempted myself.

I thought I’d read somewhere on PW that warranties (especially Kawai) are not transferable from first owner to next?

Wouldn’t be surprised if that’s for most DP brands either...

I have the original warranty card. It was never filled out and sent in. So, I will be the first registered owner.

My plan is to order the new parts I need. Then, if I can't successfully fix the bad keys, I will take it in for service, either under warranty or not. Even if I have to pay another $500 to get it right, I still have made a deal deal.

That's awesome Yes, under these conditions, you may have gotten a great deal. Knock on wood it all works (either you can fix or Kawai can fix for less than $500). Update us know when you restore this to tip-top shape

I also use an old Yamaha P250 in my studio and a CP4 for gigging. The P250 is still a great keyboard and I don’t use any of its internal sounds but rather use the keyboard as a just as a master playing vsts etc. It is also good to have the modulation wheel and pitch bend and of course inputs for expression pedal which are all very useful when recording MIDI. Looking at the P515 it doesn’t have the pitch bend and modulation wheel so would that not be a problem as a studio piano? The Casio PX560 would be a suitable keyboard but maybe the action not as good as a P515. What about the new Casio PX3000? I briefly tried one in a shop recently and the action felt very good to me but I did not have enough time to try it properly though. It might make a very suitable studio piano and certainly worth considering.

Sorry I meant to say Casio PX-S3000

johnnysavant, as jamiecw notes, I don't believe the warranty for Kawai DPs sold in the US is transferable, however it's probably best to confirm this point with Kawai America.

Kind regards,
James
x

OK, guys, here's the update on the MP7SE. I bought a new AA (A1) key from Kawai USA for $4 plus shipping and popped it in. Then I pulled the dented front panel off and pounded out the main dent. There is still a small one on the lower edge. But for a gigging keyboard, I don't care.

Then I called Kawai USA about the intermittent keys problem. It turns out that I am the first and only registered owner. I have the fully intact warranty card. This keyboard was never registered before. So, there was no warranty transfer issue. Even though the piano was passed labor warranty, Kawai paid both parts and labor to fix it. I must say Kawai USA is great to deal with.

The nearest authorized tech was 200 miles away, they they found a local technician who was not on their official list, but whom they had used in the past, and they paid him to install new key contact boards. He lives 18 minutes from me. I just got the keyboard back and it works perfectly.

Total out-of-pocket cost: ~$380. It is one very sweet keyboard.

Sorry for my English. I sold a kawai mp7se after 2 terrible years, with 3 repairs for keyboard issues. Now ... Did Kawai solve these problems? If I buy a new Kawai Mp7SE am I in the same situation? This is my question