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Kawai KDP110 vs CA48 vs CN27/37

Posted By: JamesJones

Kawai KDP110 vs CA48 vs CN27/37 - 04/10/18 04:16 PM

Hi

If I was to spend a little more than the current KDP110 that I have which DP would you advise to go for?

A CA48 or CN27 or CN37? I know the 37 has loads more features but I'm not a big fan of the big display and want to play piano only pretty much so a lot of the voices will be wasted on me.

Any ideas please?

Thank you
James
Posted By: akc42

Re: Kawai KDP110 vs CA48 vs CN27/37 - 04/10/18 05:00 PM

Its almost impossible to advise you since your own trade-offs for money against extra function (and I mean that in the broad sense of the word, rather than just the functions of the piano) it gives you is yours.

Looking at UK prices, there is a fairly even progression - KDP110->CN27->CN37->CA48
Looking at the specs then the main differences seem to be Actions (RHC-->RH3->RH3->GFC)
They all have 2x20W output but Speaker Size varies (2x12cm, 2x12cm, 2x13cm+2x(8cmx12cm), 2x13cm+2x5cm)

Apart from actions, the CN37 seems to have more capability than the CA48 (and seems to be 256 note polyphony rather than 192 - but I am not sure if thats much of an issue).

I have tried the GFC action in the CA48 and its very good - almost as good as the GF2 action in my CA67 (which I chose over the CA48, because of action and because of display). The CA48 has a very minimal display (which you say you like) as you press a function button and then one of the piano keys to select all the non standard function.

I haven't tried the RH actions so can't comment on those - I was specifically looking for long distance to pivot point, after a bad experience with another brand where it wasn't long, so I could play keys close to the back easier so didn't really consider the RH actions. The CA48 has that distance, but is the most expensive.
Posted By: JamesJones

Re: Kawai KDP110 vs CA48 vs CN27/37 - 04/10/18 05:13 PM

Thanks akc42

Yes, that's the thing I've heard that the RH actions seem to have a problem with clicky keys after periods of time, but I could be wrong.

My experience with the KDP110 has this, so would rather stay away from them if that really is the case.

The only CA model with the GFC action is the CA48 although if I could I would go for the CA58 for the extra few hundred pounds. :s
Posted By: akc42

Re: Kawai KDP110 vs CA48 vs CN27/37 - 04/10/18 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by JamesJones

The only CA model with the GFC action is the CA48 although if I could I would go for the CA58 for the extra few hundred pounds. :s


Not sure I understand you, looking that the specs the GFC is also in the CA58 - I think I commented in another thread that I paid about the same for my CA67 as the the CA58 appears to be (Bonners music in UK where I bought my piano is not quoting a price yet but I have seen a Euro price) and that they appear to have very similar functionality as one another, but you loose the GFII action but gain bluetooth (which doesn't matter to me).

The CA58 has much more powerful amps than the CA48 but it also has quite a large side panel with all the buttons.
Posted By: JamesJones

Re: Kawai KDP110 vs CA48 vs CN27/37 - 04/10/18 10:49 PM

Sorry for the confusion. I meant the Ca48 is prob the only one with the GFC that I could afford.

I really like all the extra functionality of the ca58 and if I could afford it would prob not mind the big LCD panel. But I prefer an understated look. Which was why I went for the kdp110.

I suppose my question is. Is the ca48 a worthy upgrade to the kdp110?

It has better speakers in that the tweeters fire forward. And better key action etc.

I guess I'm more worried about whether the Grand Feel Compact has the same clicky key problems as the CN's or KDP, ES's that I've been reading about?

Is it just a pot luck game because if it is I'll try another Kdp110. I just wouldn't want for the clicks to start again outside of my return period and have to constantly get it fixed when people say there is no fix. :s

Posted By: Kawai James

Re: Kawai KDP110 vs CA48 vs CN27/37 - 04/11/18 04:02 AM

Hello James,

I already made this suggestion in a separate thread, but the CA48 is definitely a worthy upgrade over the KDP110 - one of the most realistic keyboard actions available, good sound quality, and a 4 speaker delivery system.

Kind regards,
James
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Posted By: JamesJones

Re: Kawai KDP110 vs CA48 vs CN27/37 - 04/11/18 09:35 PM

Thanks James smile

So basically if I were to just want a discrete DP without a big display on and don't require all the extra voices (as I will play the piano sounds mainly anyway) go for this one?

The CA58 would still be within my price range but if I was happy with the KDP110 until it got clicky then the CA48 will def be better? The progressive harmonic imaging is better for starters isn't it?
So should the sound be better anyway even without the front facing tweeters/4 speaker setup.

The CA58 seems like the better option overall but I always feel like if more voices are added somehitng has to give, I'm sure that isn't true though. But not a huge fan of the display on the side as it will be in living room. It's just that I've just seen people mention that the Ca48 is dead in the water ignore the CA58 is coming out for such a close price range. (Looks like £450-ish more)

Why such a huge price difference though between the kdp110 and CA48 anyway?
Posted By: Kawai James

Re: Kawai KDP110 vs CA48 vs CN27/37 - 04/12/18 12:44 AM

Hello James,

Originally Posted by JamesJones
So basically if I were to just want a discrete DP without a big display on and don't require all the extra voices (as I will play the piano sounds mainly anyway) go for this one?


Yes, given your requirements, I believe the CA48 is a strong contender, however I recommend that you play-test a range of different instruments before making your decision.

Originally Posted by JamesJones
The CA58 would still be within my price range but if I was happy with the KDP110 until it got clicky then the CA48 will def be better? The progressive harmonic imaging is better for starters isn't it?
So should the sound be better anyway even without the front facing tweeters/4 speaker setup.


Yes, the CA48 has more advanced sound sampling and a superior speaker setup compared to the KDP110. However, the CA58 is another step-up above that, and then the CA78 and CA98 are further steps above. Essentially, the more you spend, the more realistic the playing experience becomes.

Originally Posted by JamesJones
The CA58 seems like the better option overall but I always feel like if more voices are added somehitng has to give, I'm sure that isn't true though.


That's a fair assumption, but in the case of the CA58, more sample memory is available, allowing for a broader selection of sounds.

Originally Posted by JamesJones
...but not a huge fan of the display on the side as it will be in living room.


I don't personally find the display to be overly large or objective.

Originally Posted by JamesJones
It's just that I've just seen people mention that the Ca48 is dead in the water ignore the CA58 is coming out for such a close price range. (Looks like £450-ish more)


May I ask where you read "the Ca48 is dead in the water"? I honestly don't believe this to be the case. The CA48 is the introductory CA model, the CA98 is the flaghship, and the CA58 and CA78 occupy the lower and upper-middle two spots - in my opinion, this is quite a clear line-up.

Originally Posted by JamesJones
Why such a huge price difference though between the kdp110 and CA48 anyway?


The CA48 is better than the KDP110 in every department (keyboard action, piano sampling, speaker system, features, cabinet).

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
James
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Posted By: JamesJones

Re: Kawai KDP110 vs CA48 vs CN27/37 - 04/12/18 02:16 AM

Hi James

Many thanks for the quick reply smile

I'm edging more towards the Ca58 now after looking more closely at the display. It doesn't seem too obtrusive and reading the manual seems to have lots of benefits.

So I'm considering waiting for the 58 as it's an investment after all and it will prob work out £600 more.

I'm just surprised that the 58 has all these extra features over the 48 for a relatively small price bump. Is there any reason it's the last of this years CA's to hit the market?

P.s. I read the dead in water comment on the CA58 Announcement thread you posted - wasn't those exact words. Comments were more in line with "out of date" and "obsolete" to be honest.

When all is said and done and I could scavenge the extra for the 58 is it a fair price to pay for the jump? USB and Line out is wasted on me though.
Posted By: Kawai James

Re: Kawai KDP110 vs CA48 vs CN27/37 - 04/12/18 02:35 AM

Hello James,

Originally Posted by JamesJones
I'm just surprised that the 58 has all these extra features over the 48 for a relatively small price bump. Is there any reason it's the last of this years CA's to hit the market?


I'm not entirely sure...maybe it's just the way the product development was scheduled.

Originally Posted by JamesJones
When all is said and done and I could scavenge the extra for the 58 is it a fair price to pay for the jump? USB and Line out is wasted on me though.


If you can stretch your budget to the CA58, I would strongly consider it, yes. However, as I mentioned previously, I would also recommend that you play-test all of the models you're considering (including other manufacturer's instruments) to make sure that the instrument is the right match for you. As for USB and Line In/Line Out, even if you believe you will not use these features, they're still nice to have as "just in case". If you ever decide to record yourself, make a CD for a loved one, or upload some videos to YouTube, I believe you'll be thankful for those additional features.

Kind regards,
James
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Posted By: akc42

Re: Kawai KDP110 vs CA48 vs CN27/37 - 04/12/18 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by JamesJones
USB and Line out is wasted on me though.


There are two types of USB connection. One is a midi port to connect the keyboard to the computer. I use this to connect to Piano Marvel (an online teaching application). I also feed to line out from my laptop into the line in port on the piano so the sound from Piano Marvel mixes with the Piano (which I then play through headphone - although sometimes I am using the speakers). But even if you don't do that there are many other cases where a midi keyboard connected to a computer is useful - see all the discussion on VSTs in this forum for just one example.

The other usb connection is for a USB memory stick. I didn't think I would use it when I bought the piano, but I soon found it invaluable

I regularly record things, and then convert to audio (on to usb) - for two purposes.

1. To provide a record of progress on a piece I am polishing (Beethoven Sonata). I have recordings going back nearly two months
2. To provide a way of recording a piece for the 40 pieces a year challenge (see the Adult Beginners Forum).

I also load midi files found on the internet into the piano via the usb to play them back.
Posted By: JamesJones

Re: Kawai KDP110 vs CA48 vs CN27/37 - 04/12/18 11:37 AM

Thanks for replies guys smile

I think I'm leaning heavily into the CA58 at this point as its an onvestment after all. I wouldn't be planning on replacing it at all unless I won the lottery so bang for buck the 58 seems to out perform the 48, at least on paper.

As for the USB/Lines - I guess at some point I may use them so yes a good to have, I agree.
Posted By: Jasper E.

Re: Kawai KDP110 vs CA48 vs CN27/37 - 04/13/18 11:47 AM

I also recommend to check if there are any CA17, or when leaning towards CA58, if there is any CA67 around, either any remaining stock, demo instruments or in a good condition on the second-hand market. I find these models delivering a lot compared to their prices before their discontinuatuon. The market can be completely different based on your location...
Posted By: JamesJones

Re: Kawai KDP110 vs CA48 vs CN27/37 - 04/13/18 01:00 PM

To be honest, being brand new to the piano. I'm using apps like Flowkey etc to get me on my feet so Bluetooth is important to me as I'm linking up to the iPad.

Unless either of these models offer the cabled version of Bluetooth via the iPads camera adapter?
Posted By: JoBert

Re: Kawai KDP110 vs CA48 vs CN27/37 - 04/13/18 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by JamesJones
Unless either of these models offer the cabled version of Bluetooth via the iPads camera adapter?

You can retrofit Bluetooth MIDI to any device that has standard MIDI in and out (i.e. not only USB MIDI) by using this relatively cheap Yamaha adapter:

https://www.thomann.de/gb/yamaha_md_bt01_wireless_midi_adapter.htm

That would for example work with the CA67.
Posted By: Kawai James

Re: Kawai KDP110 vs CA48 vs CN27/37 - 04/16/18 01:47 AM

Yes, that will work.

The QuiccoSound mi.1 can also add the same functionality.

Kind regards,
James
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Posted By: arc7urus

Re: Kawai KDP110 vs CA48 vs CN27/37 - 04/16/18 02:17 PM

Add to the list of suggestions the Yamaha UD-BT01 adapter. There are alternative brands on the market .
https://www.thomann.de/gb/yamaha_ud_bt01_wireless_midi_adapter.htm

The MD-BT01 adapter described by JoBert connects to the standard MIDI in and out ports and provides MIDI over Bluetooth .

The UD-BT01 adapter has the same functionality as the MD-BT01 but it connects to the USB-Host port instead. This may prove useful since some keyboards lack MIDI connectors but most have an USB-Host port.

With any of these adapters you can universally connect the keyboard via BT to any BT-enabled external device without the hassle of cables and extra adapters.
Posted By: JamesJones

Re: Kawai KDP110 vs CA48 vs CN27/37 - 04/17/18 11:29 PM

Thanks guys for the advice smile

I'm still sitting on the CA58. Waiting patiently for it to come out with a firm price.

Any ideas anyone?
Posted By: Angelos58

Re: Kawai KDP110 vs CA48 vs CN27/37 - 04/18/18 03:16 AM

Why not a CA67?
Posted By: Angelos58

Re: Kawai KDP110 vs CA48 vs CN27/37 - 04/18/18 05:39 AM

For JoBert and Kawai James, but for others as well, a question: bluetooth midi adapter works also on Windows 10 or on iOS only?
Posted By: arc7urus

Re: Kawai KDP110 vs CA48 vs CN27/37 - 04/18/18 05:52 AM

Originally Posted by Angelos58
For JoBert and Kawai James, but for others as well, a question: bluetooth midi adapter works also on Windows 10 or on iOS only?


Bluetooth is somewhat independent of the system or device you are using. It will work with windows 10 if the computer has a Bluetooth adapter. Most laptops have it. A desktop may not have it but you can get a external Bluetooth adapter that would connect to an USB port (these are very cheap). You can also add midi over Bluetooth functionality to a keyboard without Bluetooth as described above.
Posted By: Kawai James

Re: Kawai KDP110 vs CA48 vs CN27/37 - 04/18/18 06:26 AM

Originally Posted by Angelos58
For JoBert and Kawai James, but for others as well, a question: bluetooth midi adapter works also on Windows 10 or on iOS only?


The Bluetooth MIDI implementation on Kawai DPs officially supports iOS/macOS only. Android and Windows *may* work, but these platforms are not officially supported. In the case of Android, system-level MIDI support was introduced from Android 6 (Marshmallow), but may depend on whether the device manufacturer has retained/enabled this functionality in the included OS. In the case of Windows, Bluetooth MIDI was introduced with the Anniversary Update of Windows 10, but Windows software needs to be updated to support the new MIDI api.

For other Bluetooth MIDI adaptors such as the Yamaha MD-BT01 and Quiccosound mi.1, I recommend that you contact the manufacturers to check compatibility with non-iOS/macOS devices, however I expect the situation will be similar to Kawai, partly because Bluetooth MIDI is less mature and standardised under Android and Windows compared to iOS/macOS.

Kind regards,
James
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Posted By: Angelos58

Re: Kawai KDP110 vs CA48 vs CN27/37 - 04/18/18 07:34 AM

Kawai James thank you very much.

In fact i've got a keyboard with native midi over bluetooth, but no one software in Windows 10 Surface Pro works with this protocol. With iPad, insteed no problems.

Do you know if is there a walkaround for Surface Pro with Windows 10?
Posted By: Kawai James

Re: Kawai KDP110 vs CA48 vs CN27/37 - 04/18/18 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by Angelos58
Do you know if is there a walkaround for Surface Pro with Windows 10?


Not that I'm aware of.

My recommendation would be to check this point with Roland.

Kind regards,
James
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Posted By: Angelos58

Re: Kawai KDP110 vs CA48 vs CN27/37 - 04/18/18 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by Angelos58
Do you know if is there a walkaround for Surface Pro with Windows 10?


Not that I'm aware of.

My recommendation would be to check this point with Roland.

Kind regards,
James
x



I speak about Kawai ca67, for example.
Posted By: Kawai James

Re: Kawai KDP110 vs CA48 vs CN27/37 - 04/18/18 08:44 AM

Okay, but the CA67 does not feature any Bluetooth functionality.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: Angelos58

Re: Kawai KDP110 vs CA48 vs CN27/37 - 04/18/18 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by Kawai James
Okay, but the CA67 does not feature any Bluetooth functionality.

Kind regards,
James
x



Yes I know it, but with a Bluetooth receiver in the AUX IN port?
Posted By: Kawai James

Re: Kawai KDP110 vs CA48 vs CN27/37 - 04/18/18 09:03 AM

For Bluetooth Audio?

I'm sorry, I do not have any experience of using a such a device. However, assuming it is just sending an audio signal through a 1/8" jack plug, it should work fine with any instrument.

Unfortunately, the Bluetooth connectivity side (i.e. sending audio from a device to this receiver) is not something that I can comment on, I'm afraid. Again, this matter would need to be raised with the Bluetooth receiver manufacturer.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: Angelos58

Re: Kawai KDP110 vs CA48 vs CN27/37 - 04/18/18 09:31 AM

Kawai James Thank you very much again.
Posted By: rob1261a

Re: Kawai KDP110 vs CA48 vs CN27/37 - 07/16/18 01:57 PM

Hello Kawai James,

It is very helpful that you participate is this forum smile

I am also looking at these DPs. I am a beginner and was leaning toward the KDP110. The clicky key thing is a little concerning. Is this a known issue and has it been resolved. I also heard this about the ES110, which I was also looking at.

In the US there is a big difference in price between KDP110 ($1199) and the CA48 ($2099). The CN27 ($1899) seems like a strange option since you only save $200 over the CA48. And the CN37 ($2599), CA58 ($2999). It actually gets quite confusing. How would you compare the action between the CN27\37 to the CA48\58? Would it may a big difference for the beginner?

I am also curious why nobody mentions the Kawai ‘Sound Museum’ App for IOS. It is not in the YouTube reviews or other reviews. I always wondered why Kawai didn’t have a competing app to Roland and Yamaha for changing the sounds on the DP. But ‘Sound Museum’ allows you to preview and change the sounds based on your model and also layer, split and save favorites. Very helpful for the models without an LCD display. Not quite as feature rich as the Yamaha or Roland apps.

Thanks,
Rob
Posted By: clothearednincompo

Re: Kawai KDP110 vs CA48 vs CN27/37 - 07/16/18 06:47 PM

Kawai is more vocal about their "Virtual Technician" app that's much more versatile than the "Sound Museum".

So, they do actually have a competing and feature rich app.

But I'm not really familiar with either app and don't actually know which one is more useful for the KDP110.
Posted By: Kawai James

Re: Kawai KDP110 vs CA48 vs CN27/37 - 07/17/18 04:31 AM

Hello Rob, welcome to the forum.

Originally Posted by rob1261a
It is very helpful that you participate is this forum smile


Thank you. I try to help where I can. wink

Originally Posted by rob1261a
I am a beginner and was leaning toward the KDP110. The clicky key thing is a little concerning. Is this a known issue and has it been resolved.


I think I've only seen one or two actual reports about KDP110 clicking keys on this forum, so I honestly don't believe there should be too much to worry about.

Originally Posted by rob1261a
In the US there is a big difference in price between KDP110 ($1199) and the CA48 ($2099).


Yes, these two models are quite different in terms of keyboard action and sound engine. The KDP110 is Kawai's entry-level specification DP, while the CA48 is more of a mid-high range model.

Originally Posted by rob1261a
The CN27 ($1899) seems like a strange option since you only save $200 over the CA48.


I do not have a great deal of involvement in how the instruments are priced in the US, however I expect one reason for this could be the different distribution channels between the two models. The CN27 is sold by Kawai piano dealers, while the CA48 is sold by the larger chain stores and online retailers (although Kawai dealers can of course still sell this model).

Originally Posted by rob1261a
And the CN37 ($2599), CA58 ($2999).


Yes, the situation is the same for the CN37 and CA58 in the US also.

Originally Posted by rob1261a
It actually gets quite confusing.


For a side-by-side comparison of the CN27/CN37 and CA48/CA58 specifications, please try this link. The comparison table gets a little squashed when four models are being shown together, so this expanded image may help.

The follow graphic (extracted from the CA48/CA58 product overview, intended for dealers) should also help in summarising the relationship between the CN27 and CA48, and the CN37 and CA58.

[Linked Image]

Originally Posted by rob1261a
How would you compare the action between the CN27\37 to the CA48\58?


The CN27/CN37 action is very good, the CA48/CA58 action is even better.

Originally Posted by rob1261a
Would it may a big difference for the beginner?


It's impossible to say, I'm afraid. However, if I was a beginner seeking a digital piano, I would be sure to buy an instrument with the most realistic keyboard action I could afford.

Originally Posted by rob1261a
I am also curious why nobody mentions the Kawai ‘Sound Museum’ App for IOS. It is not in the YouTube reviews or other reviews.


That's a good point, however I noticed that the CA48 product overview video by Kawai America does briefly mention the Sound Museum app here.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: ottokeys

Re: Kawai KDP110 vs CA48 vs CN27/37 - 07/18/18 04:21 AM

Originally Posted by Kawai James
if I was a beginner seeking a digital piano, I would be sure to buy an instrument with the most realistic keyboard action I could afford.x


When wouldn't you want the most realistic keyboard action you could afford? grin
Posted By: Kawai James

Re: Kawai KDP110 vs CA48 vs CN27/37 - 07/18/18 05:57 AM

Originally Posted by ottokeys
Originally Posted by Kawai James
if I was a beginner seeking a digital piano, I would be sure to buy an instrument with the most realistic keyboard action I could afford.x


When wouldn't you want the most realistic keyboard action you could afford? grin


Perhaps if you were shopping for a stage board and required a good compromise between piano, EP, and organ. Or, perhaps if weight/portability was a factor, you might opt to sacrifice action realism in order to find a lighter instrument.

Kind regards,
James
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