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Ravenscroft 275 for iOS

Posted By: Tom Fort

Ravenscroft 275 for iOS - 06/26/17 06:01 PM

https://www.uvi.net/ravenscroft-275-piano.html

Less than 1GB, iPad 4 and above, iPhone 5 and newer. Hybrid sampled/modelling approach.

Who can buy and report back?
Posted By: newbert

Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS - 06/26/17 08:33 PM

Very interesting. I'm generally a sucker for piano apps for the iPad, but at $36 I'll wait for some reviews that I can trust.

My main gripe about piano apps for iPad (from my experience so far) are a) lack of tweakable velocity curves (the apps have presets only) and b) lack of half-pedaling support.
Posted By: Jonky Ponky

Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS - 06/26/17 09:52 PM

Thanks for the heads up. This one could be a game changer. I'm looking forward to a good independent review as well.
Posted By: Tom Fort

Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS - 06/26/17 10:57 PM

Originally Posted by newbert
Very interesting. I'm generally a sucker for piano apps for the iPad, but at $36 I'll wait for some reviews that I can trust.

My main gripe about piano apps for iPad (from my experience so far) are a) lack of tweakable velocity curves (the apps have presets only) and b) lack of half-pedaling support.




The text of their release doesn't mention velocity curves, but it does claim to have sympathetic resonance and "re-pedaling support." I wonder what that means exactly.

"Combining 100% sample-based sounds with hybrid modeling, Ravenscroft delivers real sympathetic resonance, accurate sustain pedal modeling including re-pedaling support, as well as a true staccato".
Posted By: Fscotte

Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS - 06/27/17 01:28 AM

These smaller samples are the future. I'm a big proponent of libraries around 1gb or so.. I personally don't think you need much more for realistic sound and response. Salamander C5 and iGrand Rich Upright have sold me on tiny libraries. I have CFX lite and American Concert D and haven't hardly touched them because iGrand sounds so much better.

This Ravenscroft may be my cup of tea.
Posted By: Tom Fort

Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS - 06/27/17 05:20 PM

Ravenscroft/VI/UVI mention that they're using FLAC compression to stream the samples. Their computer-based Ravenscroft 275 VST using FLAC achieves a compression ratio close to 4.5:1, a similar ratio for the iOS version would represent a library sample size of a little under 4GB.
Posted By: Jonky Ponky

Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS - 06/28/17 06:28 AM

OK I bit the bullet and got this.
First impressions are not good. It seems to have only ONE sample layer and relies on filtering to give the impression of timbre change. Very disappointing really - the over-filtering actually causes some notes to sound softer the harder you play!
So while a single note sounds quite pleasant the playing experience is not nice at all. Its also way too easy to let a finger slip onto a note ever-so-slightly but it rings out as loud as everything else.
The only +1 I can give it at this stage is the impressive low latency and high polyphony.
The maker of this app needs to do a lot more work to address these issues before it should be taken seriously by musicians.
My honest (and unbiased as humanly possible) ranking of iOS pianos is:
8/10 Free Salamander played on bs-16i app (free from my site)
7/10 Rich Upright in iGrand (requires a second purchase)
6/10 Ravanscroft 275
5/10 Korg Module with Ivory Expansion
4/10 Colossus Red Japanese Grand (has latency issues - I don't have the huge 14gb Concert Grand)
Best to save your money at this stage.
John
https://sites.google.com/site/soundfonts4u/
Posted By: Kawai James

Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS - 06/28/17 06:53 AM



Hmmm...I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, however that sounds too good to be the same 1-layer with filtering! Also, the ~900mb installation size (with FLAC compression) suggests rather more than 1-layer is used.
Posted By: slobajudge

Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS - 06/28/17 07:52 AM

In this phase It is unrealistic to expect that cripple product of the same full library will be absolute pleasure experience just because it looks good (mine observation), and I admit that it looks good. As I see the only plus here is that process of migrating quality VSTs for iOS is begun, but we need to wait couple of years to make it real usable not just for composing but for playing also. Why will I invest in Ipad when I have now almost the same size screens 2in1 laptops with full power ? Still, just for fun, anybody has experience with Synthogy for iOS ?
Posted By: Jonky Ponky

Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS - 06/28/17 10:29 AM

James - I'm not certain it has only one layer but it sure does sound like it. I've had a bit of experience designing sounds and have used the filter resonance trick on some in the past and the results were very similar to what happens to the Ravenscroft at higher velocities. If you can boost the bass tones with velocity increases at the same time you can get away with it to some extent but the Ravenscraft loses bass tones very quickly. A louder sound should not have less lower frequencies and multi-velocity samples would not normally do this. I do hope I'm wrong about this and we might see some improvement with updates.

slobajudge - Synthogy Ivory Grand is an expansion for Korg Module and I have had it for over a year. Another one of those that I had high hopes for but its just got a peculiar sound - a little bit "toy" like
I agree it looks like we just might need to wait a bit longer for something that really satisfies on iOS. I do love the portability and convenience of it.
Cheers,
John
Posted By: Tom Fort

Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS - 06/28/17 04:17 PM

That's too bad. Would you mind telling us on which device you were playing it? Hopefully the money will be worth it in the end, as you will get improved versions for free. If not, I have applied for refunds in the past from Apple.

This guy really likes it on an iPad Air 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDHVgEr9R0g&feature=youtu.be

Other reviews:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSna00noinw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIDC-uJduXc
Posted By: anotherscott

Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS - 06/28/17 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by slobajudge
Why will I invest in Ipad when I have now almost the same size screens 2in1 laptops with full power ?

iPad is not the best choice for everyone, PCs have many advantages, but iPad also has some advantages over the 2-in-1 laptops, especially in live gigging situations, or for people who are turned off by the relative complications of the Windows environment.
Posted By: slobajudge

Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS - 06/28/17 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by slobajudge
Why will I invest in Ipad when I have now almost the same size screens 2in1 laptops with full power ?

iPad is not the best choice for everyone, PCs have many advantages, but iPad also has some advantages over the 2-in-1 laptops, especially in live gigging situations, or for people who are turned off by the relative complications of the Windows environment.


You take this out of context, at the moment there is no reason to invest in Ipad because this machine is not ready yet for full VST. I also want advantage you mention when that time comes.
Posted By: Fscotte

Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS - 06/28/17 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by Tom Fort
That's too bad. Would you mind telling us on which device you were playing it? Hopefully the money will be worth it in the end, as you will get improved versions for free. If not, I have applied for refunds in the past from Apple.

This guy really likes it on an iPad Air 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDHVgEr9R0g&feature=youtu.be

Other reviews:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSna00noinw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIDC-uJduXc


Yeah that does sound really good. Someone is doing an iOS piano comparison adding the Ravenscroft.
Posted By: Jonky Ponky

Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS - 06/28/17 11:00 PM

OK - I've managed to get some improvement now by choosing some more extreme settings in the Velocity Control section.
The default settings are very very wrong but if you move the velocity curve to the bottom right and push the velocity volume to near the very top then you can manage to get the lower tones to sound a lot better as you play harder.
I'm starting to get a much more pleasing playing experience.
By the way I'm playing on both an iPad Air 2 and iPhone 6s (which have roughly the same processing power and 2gb of ram).
I'm using a Steinberg UR22Mk11 as interface (but honestly the headphone out jack sounds exactly the same).
So where would I place it now in the iOS piano comparison? I would say 7 to 8 out of 10.
Do I regret spending the money ($59.99 by the way in Australia - darn that conversion rate!) No - I'm happy with the purchase.

I did watch all the YouTube videos above before purchase except the one that I've just stumbled across that looks at the velocity response and in this you can notice the fading lower tones on higher velocities
https://youtu.be/GoykaJx9Fdo
And here others commenting on the velocity response
https://youtu.be/WdWEm2O76To
But the fix I've mentioned above does address most of this problem.
John
Posted By: Fscotte

Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS - 07/04/17 02:58 PM

Ravenscroft iOS vs Desktop version.




Nice sounding either way.
Posted By: David Farley

Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS - 07/05/17 08:59 PM

Saw this comparison, including Ravenscroft iOS, on Discchord.

Posted By: Tom Fort

Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS - 06/12/18 09:12 PM

Ravenscroft 275 iOS is on sale for half off ($18) from today through June 18th.
Posted By: pbass

Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS - 06/13/18 12:50 PM

Hello,

Yesterday, thanks to this discount, I've bought this Ravenscroft 275 to use with my iPad Air (1st generation) and Kawai KDP-110.

Unfortunately i have some problems. When I try to play(connection via Bluetooth MIDI) there are a lot of missing notes, some of them are cut off.

I wonder if it is a software or hardware problem.
When I use USB-MIDI with my laptop (with trial Pianoteq) there are no such problems (except quite big delay).

App description says that R275 requires at least iPad 4, mine is 1 generation ahead, but maybe it has not enough performance for this software?

Maybe someone tried to use this library with ipad (Air or older) and can help me identify what can cause this problem?


Posted By: pianosx

Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS - 06/13/18 05:32 PM

Thanks for the sale notification Tom.

Picked it up as well for my iPad Air first gen, and will try it out when I can in the next couple of days.

The ES8 does not have built-in Bluetooth MIDI, and I don't think just a USB connection will work, though I will try.

I will also test with my iRig Midi Pro through 5-pin MIDI, and with my NP-11/NP-30 as well.
Posted By: Kawai James

Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS - 06/14/18 01:25 AM

Originally Posted by pianosx
The ES8 does not have built-in Bluetooth MIDI, and I don't think just a USB connection will work, though I will try.


Bluetooth MIDI can be added relatively easily with an adaptor such as the Quiccosound mi.1 or the Yamaha version.

USB connection will work, however you will require an Apple Lightning to Camera adaptor.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: Tom Fort

Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS - 11/07/18 05:28 PM

On sale again for $18. Updated to v1.1 to fix iOS 12 on 10/26, which shows the developer is committed to keeping the software up to date.
Posted By: IosPlayer

Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS - 11/07/18 06:12 PM

I recommend the Ravenscroft as one of the best ( for me the best) iOS pianos.
There was a problem with too much pedal noise, especially for recording purposes, but that has been resolved with a volume slider for adjustment.
At $18 an amazing bargain. There have been users who have reported crackling. It is a real issue but I have had no problem with it.

Here is a usage of it, played on a low cost Casio keyboard. No crackles. However, I did not have a sustain pedal so you will not hear much string resonance ( but it does have it). People have praised the Korg Module German grand and the newly released Model D Steinway. If you have the Beathawk app, the inapp acoustic grand is on sale for $6.

When you consider vsts are ten times the price of these and more you can understand how much you are getting for a really low cost. Add to that that the sound is only as good as your speakers or headphones and there is not much to complain about IMO.

https://soundcloud.com/michael-levy-387395070/yardbird-suite-1
Posted By: jamiecw

Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS - 11/08/18 11:38 AM

Well I bought it...and I am about to ask for a refund. Why? CRACKLING definitely very much an issue (at least when used over BT on an iPad Air 2nd Gen.) - slider for the damper pedal - still way too loud, it's not subtle at all, as if someone is banging on your door outside. Worst of all, you still get a sound regardless how soft you press a key - e.g. 0 sound on lowest velocity is not there....in fact it is almost impossible to get anything below mp (p or pp even).

I wanted to see what all the rave was but I just can't see it...sorry...okay the sampled classic sound is nice (all the others - meh)....but what is the point when playability cannot match the samples?
Posted By: Digitalguy

Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS - 11/08/18 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by jamiecw
Well I bought it...and I am about to ask for a refund. Why? CRACKLING definitely very much an issue (at least when used over BT on an iPad Air 2nd Gen.) - slider for the damper pedal - still way too loud, it's not subtle at all, as if someone is banging on your door outside. Worst of all, you still get a sound regardless how soft you press a key - e.g. 0 sound on lowest velocity is not there....in fact it is almost impossible to get anything below mp (p or pp even).

I wanted to see what all the rave was but I just can't see it...sorry...okay the sampled classic sound is nice (all the others - meh)....but what is the point when playability cannot match the samples?


Well, I was hesitant to buy as I have it on pc and don't like the sound very much (tough it's pretty playable...). After your comment I won't get it, even on sale... Thanks!
Posted By: IosPlayer

Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS - 11/08/18 03:33 PM

Yes, crackling has been a problem, though not for me. It sounds like a refund is in order. I do disagree about the dynamic range. I played this with RC275 on a crummy Casio keyboard. Please listen. Perhaps my notion of pp is different from yours, but I think I hit that and perhaps softer. I did not use a sustain pedal so cannot comment on pedal noise, but I thought it could be turned completely off. For me this app is a true beauty, but I have been getting a lot of heat on another thread for my views, so I am not trying to convince anyone!

https://soundcloud.com/michael-levy-387395070/yardbird-suite-1
Posted By: Smaug

Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS - 11/08/18 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by jamiecw
CRACKLING definitely very much an issue (at least when used over BT on an iPad Air 2nd Gen.) - slider for the damper pedal - still way too loud

Regarding crackling, what buffer size are you running? I'm running 128 on an iPad Pro 2nd gen without issues. Also what is being sent over BT - the MIDI? If so does it not give too high a latency and maybe this is contributing to the crackling. Regarding the sustain pedal, on my version you can reduce the volume until it is inaudible (under Options...).
Posted By: Smaug

Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS - 11/08/18 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by Smaug
I'm running 128 on an iPad Pro 2nd gen without issues


Correction - 256 buffer (the minimum). Also to reduce crackling have you tried reducing the polyphony in the Options? It defaults to 60, but maybe on an Air 2 you need to reduce.
Posted By: jamiecw

Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS - 11/09/18 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by Smaug
Originally Posted by Smaug
I'm running 128 on an iPad Pro 2nd gen without issues


Correction - 256 buffer (the minimum). Also to reduce crackling have you tried reducing the polyphony in the Options? It defaults to 60, but maybe on an Air 2 you need to reduce.

Thank you for the advice and options. Yes 256 is the minimum default and currently set, pol. set to 60 & have decreased & increased but the crackling persists but so intermittent...There’s no latency at all...

Haven’t been able to ask for a refund as have not been billed yet...
Posted By: IosPlayer

Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS - 11/09/18 10:37 PM

Hi Jamie, here is a thread from the audiob.us forum with an interesting workaround. If you are techy it may interest you. The post is by Janosax a bit down the thread. I never had real crackling issues, just made sure the CPU wasn!'t being pushed to hard on the RC interface. Audiob.us, if you don't know it, is a fabulous resource for iOS info.

https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/20130/ravenscroft-275-piano-glitches
Posted By: jamiecw

Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS - 11/10/18 12:24 AM

Originally Posted by IosPlayer
Hi Jamie, here is a thread from the audiob.us forum with an interesting workaround. If you are techy it may interest you. The post is by Janosax a bit down the thread. I never had real crackling issues, just made sure the CPU wasn!'t being pushed to hard on the RC interface. Audiob.us, if you don't know it, is a fabulous resource for iOS info.

https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/20130/ravenscroft-275-piano-glitches

Cheers for that. Funnily enough I did try it under GBand the first night I got it and I still had the issue. It might be that it needs the latest and greatest iPad Pro, I don’t know but for the price tag I can’t waste more time testing what clearly does not seem like a finished product...PS tonight I also found out the presets don’t save...confirmed as per that thread.

I’ll stick with PTQ..
Posted By: jamiecw

Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS - 11/10/18 12:36 AM

PS also found out the app consumed the iPad’s battery when not in use unless it’s forced closed (I suppose it does that so it runs in the background but not used it since purchased and it was consuming cells for the last couple of days)...😏
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