I'm considering upgrading my monitors for my MP11. I know this has been asked before, but I want to be specific about the MP11 even though probably most good monitors will sound good for any DP. I just want to make sure that they work well with the range the MP11 is capable of. I'm especially concerned about the bass.

I'll probably be looking in the used market, but I am realizing that with the outlook of spending all summer listening to mine on the smaller monitors I currently have (Behringer MS-16s) is not doing the instrument any justice.

For price range, I'd say $500. The space I have it currently in FL is quite a small room, but in WI it's a decent 12 x 14' space, hardwood floors and high ceilings, and it opens up into another similar-sized room, so having a bit more power would be nice. Last summer I was cooped up in an attic while we remodeled the downstairs so the smaller speakers really didn't bother me much, but definitely want a change that will do justice to the MP11.

Good Morning Morodiene

You can probably find some good used monitors for sure in the $500 range, but I would consider looking at the PreSonus Eris E8. From my experience with the Eris E5s, I find them to be an exceptional value for the price. They have a very clean and clear sound and seem to be a well made quality monitor. Also, a second choice might be the JBL LSR308 - some great reviews. Again, keeping your budget in mind.

Or you can consider 5"s with a sub woofer. But if you have the room the 8"s are the way to go and would compliment you MP11 nicely.


http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ErisE8

I'm using a pair of Yamaha MSP5's. They're the bi-amplified version of the old Yamaha NS10's that the majority of recording studio's used to mix the most famous recording artists in the industry.

67 Watts per monitor (40w in the bass, 27 in the treble). These are perfect for the MP11. I've been using these for over 10 years (yes, they've been around for a long, long time, and still being sold). You can pick up these monitors for around $249 online, probably even less if buying used.

I use a pair at my home studio, and another pair at my office studio. If you ever do any mixing, or make a recording of any kind... if you can get it to sound the best you can on these monitors, then the recording will sound fantastic on everything else (car speakers, hi fi, home audiophile systems, PA's, everything)! Its built for mixing, but does a super, super job as studio monitors.

Chuck, that's great they can also be good for mixing. I was also going to look into some speakers for that purpose as well, so even better that they can do double duty! I'll definitely be on the look-out for those.

Thanks, Marko. I'll definitely look into the Eris. Do you think these would work well for mixing also? Do you recommend 8" vs. 5" like the Yamaha MSP5 Chuck recommended?

edited to add: I'm wondering if the 8s might be too big, but the E5s might be just the right size considering I'm not in a largish space in either place.

An on-going thread on this question (though not specifically about the MP-11):

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/low-end-theory/992878-jbl-lsr-305-vs-presonus-eris-e5.html

My bias is still that a 5" woofer is too small for good piano bass. A pair of 5" monitors with a small subwoofer would probably work fine, though.

. Charles

PS -- I'll be playing keyboard bass tonight, through my EV ZXA1 (8" woofer). If it survives, I'll pin a medal on it.

So it sounds like either go with 8" monitors or get 5" with a subwoofer? Is there any advantage to getting 8" over " + subwoofer (or vice versa)?

One subwoofer, and a pair of 5" speakers, should be a bit lighter, and cheaper, than two 8" speakers.

Aside from that, the setups should behave similarly. There's not much directionality in low bass sounds; the "stereo effect" comes from higher frequencies.

One other possibility, especially if you do a lot of music away from home (which I think you do):

. . a small powered PA system.

Yamaha made a 300-watt Stagepas powered PA system (out of production now) -- stereo speakers (8" woofers, small horn-loaded tweeters), and a mixer/amp (3 or 4 mic inputs, and a few instrument/line inputs). It's rather clunky, but it integrates nicely, and sounds good. No problem with bass, or volume, there. One of those, used, ought to be within your budget. It's been replaced by higher-power, more-expensive models.

The PA speakers tend to be built tougher than "monitor speakers". The speaker cones are always protected by a grille, and you can thrown them into a car without worrying.

Fender ("Passport") and Samson make similar systems. Whomever runs the sound system in your church might be helpful.

. Charles

Edit -- yes, the used ones are within budget:

http://used.guitarcenter.com/usedgear/index.cfm

and search on keyword "stagepas"

Hmm, I can not answer if there is any advantage to getting 8" over 5" + subwoofer (or vice versa). My non-technical opinion is that I might consider going with 8"s if I had to do it over. As much as I love my set up, I could have saved a few $$ and skipped the T10 sub woofer (or go with T8). Only because the T10 is almost too much power. So I find myself practicing "sometimes" with it off or turned down only because the 5"s are so good alone. The 8"s might eliminate the need for a sub altogether. However, it is truly an AWESOME playing sensation w/ my sub as I get that soundboard-like resonance to the ear and touch. Perfectly clear lows - never muddy or boomy. Not sure if I can get that feeling with 8"s alone. Plus, I love the fit of my setup. Tough call.

Edit: this is just my personal experience. PianoManChuck is certainly a professional's experience. Plus he is an MP11 owner. So, you might already have your answers.

Marko --

Your signature line says that you have a Stagepas 400i.

Have you tried playing the DP through that, instead of the Presonus speakers?

. . . And if so, how did it sound?

Thanks --

. Charles

Hi Charles, Yes, I use the StagePas all the time with RD and ES7 and sound quality is excellent. I just never use it at home, but would actually work nicely for a good size living room. It's a bit overkill for my little house. Plus, I prefer the accuracy and directional sound of studio monitors when practicing as they clearly point out all my sloppiness. I would certainly use the SP400 for entertaining over studio monitors. Also, the on board mixer and effects are excellent which is a bonus if you like to tweak.

Marko --

Thanks. I tried a Stagepas 300 once, with my PX-350 for an evening, and was impressed. But I never used it with Pianoteq, which would be a bit more demanding (and revealing).

My only beef with the Stagepas is that there's no "Aux FX" loop in the mixer. Since I never use effects, I don't know why that should bother me, but it does.

. Charles

Charles, I actually own a Stagepas already. I'm using it for when I play or sing elsewhere, and I am using them for lack of something better right now for mixing, but obviously that's not an ideal for that. I do love the unit for performing though...it sounds great!

Morodiene,

I have a slightly different view. I have two KRK Rokit5's plus the Rokit 10" sub-woofer. The sound is decent, but if I were to do it over, I'd make two changes.

First, I would research a different brand. Perhaps the Presonus.

Second, I would forgo the sub-woofer and get two 6" or 8" speakers instead. Even after tweaking the sub-woofer settings extensively, it overpowers that piano sounds. Right now, the sub-woofer is completely unplugged, with the signals going straight into the Rokit5's.

Regards,

Dan.

I am happy with the Presonus Eris 5s with my ES7. Interesting that people seem to place the monitors facing the player. Mine are tucked away inside (and touching) the stand, facing outwards on a sprung wooden floor, thus, I believe, transmitting some resonance up towards me. (Not as much as I got in the same place with the Kawai RX2!) No problems with weak bass. Transferring recordings to my floorstanding Monitor Audio domestic speakers, having added some room ambience - I play Pianoteq 5 with no reverb - the sound is a little more civilised - the 5s are quite clinical - but no significant increase in bass. Listening to PT playback from about 25 feet away to judge my playing is helpful: some natural room resonance and a sense of listening to a clean, fairly bright small to medium-sized grand. I also play software harpsichord and organ - here the 5s produce a lovely sound, with ample bass from a 1624 Ruckers, just not quite as open as the real thing. (Many people are not aware just how resonant the bass is on a good acoustic harpsichord) Obviously large organs would be a different matter, but as I tend to play a 1741 Dutch single manual organ, there is no problem here either.

Interesting...I had heard good things about the Rokits too, so I'm surprised you're not happy with them. Reading up I hear a lot of good things about JBL LSR 305s over the Presonus for that price point.

Morodiene,

I bought the Rokits for pricisely that reason - good reviews. Without the sub-woofer, the Rokit5's sound a bit thin. With the sub-woofer, the sound is less thin, but the sub-woofer overpowers the monitors. I've not found the settings that will provide a nice, balanced, full sound.

Part of the issue may be placement for the monitors and sub-woofer. That said, there are very limited placement options and even there it's pretty much limited to moving the sub-woofer. And that would require running long wires and drilling holes in the family room Oak floor. I.e. major hassle. And then I don't have a lot of confidence that the sound would improved substantially.

Using 6" or 8" Rokit monitors alone would probably be better. I'm just questioning how much better. I.e. at that price point, are they the best combination of size, sound quality, and price?

Right now, I'm stuck with what I have. Maybe next year...

Regards,

Dan.

Is your room treated at all? That might be a better alternative to buying something else, and may resolve your issue. I know next to nothing about treating a room, only that it plays a huge part in how we perceive the sound.

[quote] . . .
I bought the Rokits for pricisely that reason - good reviews. Without the sub-woofer, the Rokit5's sound a bit thin. With the sub-woofer, the sound is less thin, but the sub-woofer overpowers the monitors. I've not found the settings that will provide a nice, balanced, full sound. . . . [/quote

FWIW --

I once read that the right setting for a subwoofer is just below the point where you notice that it's turned on. If you can hear it, it's too loud.

If it won't go soft enough -- limited range on the controls -- consider putting a resistive pad into the audio line to the subwoofer. Or just add a variable resistor, or a switched fader box (if such a thing exists).

. Charles

This is exactly how I have mine set. Just enough that it fills in the bass without taking over the detailed sound of the 5"s. When set just right it perfectly rounds out the overall sound of the DP and is very pleasing. More is not better when it comes to a subwoofer with a DP IMO. Will just sound boomy and defeat the purpose.

Hi Morodine,Im not sure how much bass you want in your speakers,the roland cm 30 cube speakers I use aren,t real bassy but they are very clean and clear. They have hi and low eq on them which I don,t use . To get my mp 11 sounding deeper and richer I just close the lid to one. MiKe

I own one Cube and love it (that little thing has helped me out in more than one little pinch!), but I don't know if it would be at the level of detail I'm looking for to make it worthwhile to buy a 2nd. They're very versatile and for a bunch of different applications, but I'm looking for something a bit more specialized in the near field.

What monitor stands do you use, please? Do you like them? I think sooner or later I will think which monitor stands to choose…

Got them at local Boston GC. I really like them very much as they are heavy duty and rock solid. Can even fill them with sand for more stability but they are pretty heavy as is. Also comes with optional feet depending if put them on rug or hard floor. Perfect fit for 5" monitors as you can see and 8" will work fine. The look nice too IMO. Excellent deal at GC - $99 for pair! Check out the reviews for more opinions.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/DR-Pro-...nitor-Stand--Pair--105794002-i1535185.gc

I am using a pair of Yamaha HS8. I've listened to more expensive monitors and I have yet to find a pair (within reason then obviously) that would make me regret my choice.
Attached to the wall with http://www.amazon.co.uk/B-Tech-BT77-Ultragrip-Clamping-Loudspeaker/dp/B004DCAOHK which works very well.

Thank you. I hope these stands possible to find not only in Guitar Center because I think the nearest Guitar Center is in many thousands miles from me.

First I was looking on K&M 26740 Monitor stand. Good stands. Besides I like their round base and round tube. So it doesn't matter, how you turn these stands, they will always look the same. But for my room conditions they have too wide round base (45 cm = 17.7"). I don't have enough space for them between my furniture and keyboard stand's legs (photo).

I will be grateful to you, if you can measure the base size of your monitor stands.
_____________________

As for monitors, I like very much JBL LSR305. In this video I liked them more, than YAMAHA HS). There are a lot of great customer and audio magazine reviews (Sound On Sound, Digital Trends, Music Radar etc.). And I like that all they confirm a very wide "sweet spot". So, JBL's technology called "Image Control Waveguide" really works.

But, again, personally for me there is one problem: these great monitors have bass port in the back. So, I can't put them near my wall. And I will definitely put my future monitors near the wall, because I don't have other choice. So, I see your Presonus have bass ports on the front. But I also wish monitors have operation controls (at least ON and OFF switcher) on the front (not in the back, like many monitors) which is much more convenient (but this is just wish, not the "must").

I did the measurements of the entire stand for you. Hope it helps.

Thank you very much. That's great.

One more question. Do I understand right, the height of these stands is not adjustable?

Correct. Not adjustable. But a perfect height when siting on piano bench. The monitors line up perfectly with shoulders to ears. At least for me - Im average height 5'9"

Edit: Morodiene - sorry for getting OT. Lets get back to studio monitors in this thread

So I ended up with a pair of the JBL LR305s. We were able to find a good deal on a barely used pair through Amazon for $105 each plus shipping. They arrived today and they are impeccable! Just lacking the original box and instructions.

Hooked them up to the MP11 and did a side-by-side comparison with the Behringer MS16s. No real comparison, of course, but fun to really hear the difference good monitors make. The sound across the board has tons of depth and dimension. The bass especially was clear and full, so I don't think I'll need to get a subwoofer. Since I don't do a lot of regular playing on the MP11 while in FL, I'll be using them for composing & VSTs, and then use them on the MP11 when I go up north for the summer.

A couple of questions on ideal setups:

- I know that there are things to watch out for with bass getting trapped in corners and the like. How does one determine what's needed and where to treat a room?

- Am I correct in thinking these monitors don't have to be facing toward me at an angle for the best quality sound? Or if they so, do I need to be concerned with the height as well as the angle?

- Since I'll be currently hooking these up with my Mac laptop, which is the best way to do this? The JBLs each have XLR and TRS inputs, but they don't connect to one another so I will need two outputs from my laptop. I only have the headphones/line out on the laptop, which means using a splitter etc. Or, I can use my Roland quad capture usb interface, which has TRS outputs only. I'm assuming the latter would be better, but just want to confirm.

Thanks everyone for the input!

LR305s? Maybe LSR305?

Yes, LSR305s.

Still not correct. Without "s" on the end. LSR305. Maybe it means plural, but in this case it can still confuse, because there are a lot of models with "s" on the end.

Whatevs.

Buy the way, instructions you can take here. It has some answers on your questions (for example, right positioning etc).

Good for you and great deal! They are highly praised monitors in all the reviews.

Regarding position, my personal preference is slightly above shoulders height and angled in pointing at me. Not sure if that's "best" quality sound you can get out of them. I'll leave that question up to the sound guys on the forum




BTW - LOL!!

Thanks! This helps.

Thanks for the visual, that's what I was thinking, and it goes with what they seem to recommend in the manual.

I will most likely enlist hubby to make some speaker stands - seems pretty simple with some MDF and sand and a bit of paint. My speakers didn't come with the pads/feet that you stick on, so I'll have to find something like that. I've seen these . Are they worth investing in you think?

Hi Morodiene, FYI, the stands I purchased at GC includes padding.

I give up: is there any particular reason we are calling speakers "monitors?" I'd hoped this was going to be about being able to hook up some monitor so I don't have to squint at those ridiculously tiny LED displays on a DP.

"Studio monitors are loudspeakers specifically designed for audio production applications, such as recording studios, filmmaking, television studios, radio studios and project or home studios, where accurate audio reproduction is crucial, whereas reference monitors are loudspeakers generally used to gauge what a recording will sound like on consumer-grade speakers."

"Among audio engineers, the term monitor implies that the speaker is designed to produce relatively flat (linear) phase and frequency responses. In other words, it exhibits minimal emphasis or de-emphasis of particular frequencies, the loudspeaker gives an accurate reproduction of the tonal qualities of the source audio ("uncolored" or "transparent" are synonyms), and there will be no relative phase shift of particular frequencies—meaning no distortion in sound-stage perspective for stereo recordings."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studio_monitor

Thx

PMFJI (just scratching my head, wondering . . .) -

Why not just use a pair of consumer-grade speakers?

. Charles

PS -- thanks to "Sound on Sound" putting its old issues in the public domain, here's an interesting article on the subject (which mentions the Auratone speaker in the sense used above):

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Jun02/articles/monitors.asp

PPS -- Yes, the Internet really is where all our knowledge is stored!<g>

Thank you for your reply.

You are welcome. In the end I chose other monitors and other monitor stands for myself. You can see them in my signature.

There is one more very important feature of a monitor - it has a very narrow "ray" of sound, the sound is narrowly directed toward the listener. That's why monitors must be positioned very precisely in a room. That's not the case with consumer-grade speakers.