Hi,

Has anyone tried both the Kawai ES7 and Yamaha P155? I think Yamaha P155 came out in 2008 and Kawai ES7 in 2012(?). Given the 3-4 years of technological advantage, I'd think Kawai ES7 is much better than Yamaha P155.

Can someone share, based only on key-action and tone, is Yamaha P155 very far off from Kawai ES7?

Thanks.

In a previous post it seems like you just bought your P155. Are you not happy with it?

Is ES7 much "better" than P155? Quick answer, yes and no.

Yes, better: specs on the ES7 are more advanced mostly due to the Virtual Technician, triple sensor keys, 256 polyphony, and several other features.

No, not necessarily better: they are both solid digital pianos that sound and feel great at their default level. Turn them on, start playing the default grand/concert piano sound. Yes, Yamaha and Kawai will sound different from each other, but that is a matter of taste only. Both are adjustable enough to get the sound you want - ES7 more so. Key action, again both are very good but it come down to preference. I love the action on the ES7, some are just ok with it. I very much like the action on the P155, CP33, and CP300.

SO I really cant give you a definitive answer. Not sure what you are trying to achieve. Your P155 is a great DP. Is it due for an update - maybe. If you need some of the advanced features of the ES7 - go for it. No matter what DP you own you will always look at others and question it from time to time.

The two instruments are both similar (in general) and different (in details). Only you can decide if you prefer the tone of the ES7 over that of the P155 or vice versa. The actions are different as well. The GH action in the P155 is a solid, nice action feeling quite substantial. The action in the ES7 is a very nice action in itself, very responsive, but a little different. Again it is only you who can decide. There are more features on the ES7, more control over the tone, and arguably better speakers.

I regularly practice on a P155. If I would buy new I would probably go for the ES7 over the P155 now, but in the end the differences would be too small for me to "upgrade" from the P155 to the ES7. On the other hand, a Kawai MP10, the VPC1, the CA65&95 would all definitely be upgrades, for different purposes.

Hi Marko

Yes, I just bought my P155 but have since read some reviews on how good ES7 is. Initially, I wanted a EP3 after reading this article - P155 vs EP3. It's almost like a one-sided win for EP3. But my local Kawai rep didn't carry it. Hence, I went for P155 instead.

Today, I came across this article - Kawai ES7. It seems that ES7 is a much improved replacement for EP3. That's why it makes me wonder what I'm really missing by not getting a Kawai.

It seems that you have a high regard for P155. That kind of put my mind at ease.

I guess it's a silly transition phase where one just bought something and shortly wonder if he had missed out on something even better. Thanks for helping me out.

I have never tried the ES7. But I do have the P-155.

When I first got my P-155, I was so happy with it. Then I went through a phase where I wasn't so excited about it. And partly that was due to thinking that I was missing out on something. You hang around these forums for too long and you get gear envy. "Just for a few more hundred, I could have had this better board." I am now back to being ecstatic about the P-155. I was in a local shop and played some DP's and it just reassured me that the P-155 is solid all the way around. I am not that experienced, but from what little I know it's a great digital piano, especially for the price. I'm happy.

Of course, I reserve the right to upgrade at any time in the future.

Hi Maurus

Yes, everything I've read so far kind of praise Kawai's EP3/ES7 super nice action and great speakers. Some even says that P155 has too much weight on its keys which makes it unnatural.

It's really nice to see someone who has tried both and still feel that P155 can hold its own.

Thanks for sharing how you view the two. It certainly gave me a more balanced perspective than I had before.

For the money, the P155 is a good all-round portable board.

The ES7 is superior in terms of specifications, yes, however it's also rather more modern, and therefore more expensive (depending on the market area).

I believe you should enjoy your Yamaha for what it delivers, and not worry too much about whether you're missing out on anything by not opting for the Kawai.

Kind regards,
James
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sorry for disturbing..

Is FP-7F better purchase than ES7. I'm affraid of hard and loud bottoming in Roland but love SN (strings specially). Is there any VTS's similar to ROland's sounds ? (i know, integra-7, but obviously can't afford to have one).

FP-7F/FP-80 are more or less on a par with the ES7.

Also, I don't believe the FP's strings are 'SuperNatural'.

Cheers,
James
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Yes FP7F/FP-80 also ought to be compared to these 2 since it's in a very similar category and price range.

Over here the ES7 can be had with the official furniture stand and triple pedal set for just over £1100 whereas the P-155 is usually £1100 with no stand. The FP-80 is quite a bit more expensive here than those 2 at £1500 with no stand. The ES7 feels like the best deal price wise.

When I tried the Rolands I did notice they feel hard at the bottom of the key stroke. Is that what you mean by bottoming out? The MP10 felt quite soft at the bottom almost mushy in comparison. From memory the ES7 was somewhere in-between.

The keys on the ES7 felt like they had less travel (shallow). I don't know if that was due to it being setup at an angle on a rack or it's just my imagination. I do remember someone else mentioning that. It did put me off a little.

No, but Roland strings are very nice, SuperNatural or not.

Also, if you plan to use the onboard speakers, The ES7 might be better than FP-7F. The FP-80 might be better than both, but I have not played it yet.

The midpipe organ on the RD700NX sounded great. The FP-80 doesn't have that and is missing a lot of the sounds of the NX in general some of which are quite impressive.

Yes, i was thinking about bottoming out.

it sounds like that

http://www.sendspace.com/file/rr2kpx

MP10 - out of my range

I think you might be putting too much emphasis one guy's opinion at AZpiano. Only you can decide for yourself. I perfer the action of the ES7 compared to the CA65/95 which is crazy to some. But I like. So as you read these reviews, keep in mind the old saying "Opinions are like a**holes. Everyone's got one"

Hi Kawai James

That's good advice. After using the P155 for a while, I do feel that it is a fine digital piano. I really should focus on enjoying it to the fullest since that's the one I have right now.

Thanks much!

Haha, I'll remember that! :-)

I was trying DPs over the weekend, from the P105 to FP7Fs, kawais etc. Being a beginner I can't appreciate what the more expensive models bring to my plate. The P155 I tried was great, reminds me of my CP33. I mainly don't like it's wood grain :P Else I thought it was a great instrument.

FWIW, I have my Yamaha P155 hooked up to a small, inexpensive stereo receiver that I had laying around from maybe 15 years ago. That and a couple of speakers that came with it - I think each speaker cabinet has 2-3 speakers, but I can't remember). The receiver has all kinds of "effects" settings like Surround, various music styles, equalizer, etc. etc.. When I play the P155 with that stuff going, with the speakers positioned so the sound is directed upwards behind the piano, I can hardly believe how good it all sounds. I tend to keep the internal speakers in the mix so that I get some vibe feedback in the keys. We talked about all this a couple of years back - some other folks here told me how to get it set up in that post.

Be wary of relying so much on that azpianonews website. Every article he posts seems to have a Kawai slant. Whether this is due to Kawai being superior, I do not know. I just know that he shoehorns in Kawai every chance he gets. Even his reviews for other brands ultimately read like an advertisement for Kawai. I appreciate his opinions, but he really needs to practice an "at arm's length" style of writing to prevent this seemingly blatant conflict of interest.

I also don't care for the way he constantly makes a point that Kawai is in Japan, near Yamaha, and so on without mentioning that Kawai pianos are made in Indonesia.

*edit* this topic made me read a few more articles from that blog and I feel I can no longer trust him. In the P155 review, he chastises the Yamaha heavier keys as "unnatural". Yet, in the Kawai ES7 article, he says it has heavier keys than the other brands, and praises this aspect for its ability to give "smooth movement". Which is it?

The AZpiano guy has financial interest in this, as he is selling digital pianos. Which probably means that the only purpose of his "reviews" are to sell more pianos through his site. Don't be fooled by websites like that.

The best advice is right here.

Read: ... that *some* Kawai pianos are made in Indonesia. Their more expensive upright and grand piano lines are made in Japan.

It's 4 years newer but it's also a higher-end instrument. The P155 is budget level. Even when it was new it was like a $1000 while the ES7 competes at a different price point. Closest competitor is the Roland FP7F or FP80. On the Yamaha side...dunno. What does a CP5 go for these days?

Having said that, the P155 has the same action as many higher-end models (minus the triple sensor). So on the feel side it's more of a Yamaha vs Kawai preference. This forum has a lot of Kawai followers, but the world is full of Yamaha users.

Some people have been commenting on the Roland PHA3 action. The shop next to me has an FP7F and a P155 right next to each other so I have played them a number of times. The best way I can describe the Roland is that its dynamic weight seems low, so it's easy to push those keys down fast. This makes it very responsive and quick but at the same time it's like there's some emptiness during the travel and then it seems like you hit the bottom abruptly. The static weight (to get the key moving) doesn't seem low at all to me. The Yamaha seems to have more dynamic weight. This can make it more work to play if you are playing fast or loud. It hits a little lighter but I find it more stressful physically. If I had to choose between the two actions at this point I'd probably go with the Roland.

I own a Kawai MP8 so I can also compare that. It has a wooden key action similar to RM3 in the MP10 and VPC1. I'd say the dynamic weight is yet higher than the Yamaha but a small margin but buttery smooth and hits softly and quietly. To play something fast or loud can be a real workout on it. You get a great feeling of control, especially when playing quietly. At the same time if you are playing something vigorous and super fast, it can be physically hard and emotionally frustrating. Part of that might be the two-sensor action, which recent Kawai models don't suffer from. This is after a lot of playing. If I owned the Roland or Yamaha I'd complain about different things, but I'd still complain.

Unfortunately I've never been able to play Kawai's plastic actions. My local Kawai retailer has only acoustics.

All these actions are within the normal range of acoustics, though. In the very same store there are acoustic pianos with greater and less weight per key than any of the digitals. This means any of these digital will get the job done. But you might as well get the one that corresponds to your preferences. I've been trying to upgrade from my MP8 for some time but I've had a hard time finding anything that's sufficiently better. I like the FP7F action, but I'd go so far as to say it's better. And that goes without saying for the Yamaha, which seems to be in between Roland and Kawai actionwise. Actually I'm not really even sure I feel that the AvantGrand's action is unambiguously better.

Yes, I do love the sound of P155 but via a Sennheiser HD598. I'd prefer not to wear headphones when I practice, but the sound through a HD598 makes it worth it.

Yes, beginning to get that idea. :-)

That's very good to know; at least for my own reference.
Thanks a bunch!

I just received my ES7 yesterday. It's white and, to me, it looks gorgeous.

Here are my impressions:

1. ES7's key action is great. But the default is pretty light compared to P155. ES7's Touch Curve feature is very useful. P155 has a similar feature, but the difference it generates on the P155 is very mild. When you change the touch curve for ES7, you can really feel it. But I'm warming up to the ES7's default touch curve after a day of use. ES7's key surfaces feel better than the P155's too. ES7's keys are also very responsive while P155's keys are more substantive and a notch slower. While both have great key actions, I like ES7's better.

2. It's harder to press the ES7's keys when my finger is further away from the edge (that is, close to touching the housing compartment) - the sound seems to be softer compared to striking it at the key's edge with the same force. In P155, I can use almost the same force and get the same sound/effect/feel when my finger strikes at any position of that key.

3. The ES7's quality is great. The one in the showroom has 1 key that wobbles horizontally with a soft clicking sound; made me a bit hesitant to buy one on the spot. But, thankfully, my unit seems fine.

4. The sound samples from ES7 are very good. To me, they are just as good as the P155's. But if I'm using built-in speakers, the sound is noticeably better on the ES7. But with my Sennheiser HD598, my P155 sounds better. Don't get me wrong. ES7 sounds great on the HD598 too. But P155 sounds more refined and enchanting on the HD598.

5. If I use the ES7's speakers and turn the volume low, the sound is still pretty clear. But if I turn the volume soft on my P155, the sound becomes a bit muffled. This forces me to use my HD598 when I play my P155 at night. But with the ES7, I can play softly at night and still hear what I played rather clearly (without disturbing the neighbors).

6. The sustain pedal that comes with the ES7 feels very good and is miles ahead of the P155's.

7. I noticed my ES7 speakers emit a soft hissing sound. It doesn't really affect me, but if I place my ears close to the speakers, I can clearly hear the hiss. The hiss doesn't seem to get louder or softer when I adjust the volume; it just stays constant. I don't hear any hiss from my P155 speakers though.

8. Playing ES7 and P155 back-n-forth in the comfort of my home, using the same set of music scores, makes me realize one thing - P155 can certainly hold its own. Having said that, I really like my ES7 a whole lot.

I hope this helps anyone who is considering either a Kawai ES7 or a Yamaha P155.

note: the stand that was delivered to me is gray instead of white. the shop is kind enough to reply that they will rectify it asap.

yamahap155, thank you for your post!

Great setup too!

The stand appears to be the model intended for a silver ES6, however I'm confident that the store will rectify this error as soon as possible.

Note that you should also receive a matching white + clear perspex music rest with the correct stand.

Kind regards,
James
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Thanks for the heads up, James.

You know, in Singapore, there's only one Kawai representative - Robert Piano. Luckily it's a good one. I wasn't too upset with the stand as my ES7 unit seems to be in perfect condition. However, I did email the company to feedback on the stand.

Then I just went out to grab a bite; without my mobile. When I came back, about 45 mins later, I saw 3 missed calls on my mobile - all of them from Robert Piano. I called back and the founder of that company was on the other line. He told me he was shocked and said he's drafting a letter to Japan as we speak; apparently the box was labeled as 'white', but it actually contained a gray stand. He also thanked me for my patience and followed up with an email to assure me that he'll get in the white stand asap.

The founder is an elderly gentleman named Mr. Robert Chiu. I find his sense of urgency and empathy in resolving issues faced by his customers is so rare among business-men.

yamahap155, thank you for the update.

I'm glad to hear that you're being looked after by Kawai's representative in Singapore.

Please do update the thread (and your photo) when you receive the white stand.

Kind regards,
James
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My ES7 white stand has arrived.




Just a quick note for those who are choosing between P155 and ES7. I've sold off my P155. After getting used to the responsiveness of ES7's key action, I find myself very reluctant to go back to P155. P155's key action is like an on/off switch. ES7, on the other hand, has a certain consistent/progressive feel when its keys are pressed down. It also has this VERY subtle vibration sensation when the keys return; which is very satisfying to me.

Thanks for posting the pictures iceporky, the stand looks great!

Cheers,
James
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"Yes, I just bought my P155 but have since read some reviews on how good ES7 is."

Worst case scenario! You`re infected! We`re all infected! The lucky ones are those who can`t afford to change . . . or who are too darned tight . . . .

Think about the music. There are loads of good demos of good music on the P155. But I must admit, a white ES7 is very tempting. But then so`s Halle Berry . . .

Guess I was too late! I was gonna say how good it looked with the grey stand, but I better not . . .!! Have fun!!

(Your P155 looks stunning)