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Kurzweil Triple Strike Piano

Posted By: MVshabeer2

Kurzweil Triple Strike Piano - 06/23/11 06:40 PM

I have heard lot about Kurzweil's triple strike piano. But never got the chance to try it.
What is so special about the sound? Why it's triple strike?

I heard demos and to me it sounds fantastic. IMHO I would say it is not a perfect acoustic sound. But something is in there that makes sometimes better than an acoustic one.
Also heard their 1999 model K2600 survived 10 years and was not beaten in sound quality by even the 2009 models.

I am planning to get a PC3, What do you people think.
Posted By: JFP

Re: Kurzweil Triple Strike Piano - 06/23/11 07:27 PM

If it's a realistic acoustic piano sound you're after, consider this:

The original recordings for the Kurzweil Grand Piano sound we're made decades ago on 2" analog tape. Since then the product template of Kurzweil has been using the same basic sample set of these piano sounds. First in a one-touch/one layer version when large ROM chips we're a thing of the future (K250/K1000/K1200/K2000) and later in triple strike version on extended K2500 boards, the K2600's up until the PC3(K) series of instruments. In other words: the basis for this sound is already quite old and doesn't offer 88 key sampling , multi-layering (more than 4 volume layers), pedal and string resonance, long sample decays and other features 'modern' equipment offers. So it is not as realistic as for instance the Super Natural Piano's from Roland. But...sound is also a matter of taste and for all the sample based instruments, be it SN or not, the basic recording defines the basic character of the sound. For comparison, some people like the sound of Steinway Grands, others prefer Yamaha, Kawai, Fazioli or Bosendorfer .

I personally like the basic sound of the Kurzweil piano - despite it's simplicity - but I wouldn't use it for serious practicing or classical work anymore, just for live gigs or short burst of fun playing. Still for allround band-work it's sufficient and the other sounds Kurzweil offers are very usable and (PC3 series) tweakable. In short , it very much depends on what you want the instrument to do ; if it's mainly Acoustic Piano, I would strongly suggest to look for another brand, but if it's allround gig/band work; you can get you're hands on some very cheap PC3-X machines these days, which might fill your needs. You can still add a software piano later if necessary.

Feel free if you want to know more, I'm using all three these days (Kurzweil, Stage Piano and software instruments) and may shine a light on some issues. Cheers. J
Posted By: MVshabeer2

Re: Kurzweil Triple Strike Piano - 06/23/11 09:38 PM

Thanks for the info.

Quote
The original recordings for the Kurzweil Grand Piano sound we're made decades ago on 2" analog tape.


shocked OMG then why they didnt re-sampled it till now. I think the same sound engineer will be able to do a great job with todays sampling devices

I like the Steinway sound more than other brands. Also like the Motif Piano(based on CFIIIS).

What I am using now is Synthogy Ivory VSTi. The German D sounds pretty realistic. But I am really lazy to every time hook up the computer and load the samples, troubleshooting the asio device etc.. So I am looking for hardware replacement for the Ivory German D.

Most of the time I just play piano. But I need 16 track sequencer bcs sometimes I write songs. Again I only use Cubase after I am done with the recording on the keyboard.
Posted By: anotherscott

Re: Kurzweil Triple Strike Piano - 06/23/11 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by MVshabeer2

Quote
The original recordings for the Kurzweil Grand Piano sound we're made decades ago on 2" analog tape.


shocked OMG then why they didnt re-sampled it till now. I think the same sound engineer will be able to do a great job with todays sampling devices


There's nothing inherently wrong with the fact that the samples were captured long ago on 2" tape. Pianos that are being sampled today are not better than pianos that were around 20 years ago, and 2" tape provides a very high quality sound. You said it yourself, there are brand new pianos you can buy today that don't sound as good (or perhaps don't play as "musically") as a 10 year old Kurzweil, even if they were recorded more recently on digital equipment.

Triple-strike means that they captured the sound at 3 velocity levels. Many current models don't do any more than that. The Casios are low cost models that have 4 velocity level samples... but I don't think they sound as good as the Kurzweils, these kinds of specs just don't tell the whole story. I'm not saying the Kurz is the best piano around today... but if you like its sound best from within models in its price range, or there's just something about its character that works for you, I wouldn't dimiss it on specs alone. Your ears are the best determination of what you like best.

You're further limited in your choices because you are looking for, not a piano, but a workstation with a good piano sound (i.e. the 16 track sequencer). The best piano sound in a workstation will probably be the Korg Kronos.

There are some other nice pianos around, but Yamaha and Roland don't put their best piano sounds in their workstations, while Nord and Kawai don't make workstations at all.

Posted By: dewster

Re: Kurzweil Triple Strike Piano - 06/23/11 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by MVshabeer2
Also heard their 1999 model K2600 survived 10 years and was not beaten in sound quality by even the 2009 models.

Gotta hand it to Kurzweil - if there was an award for best DP hype ever, they'd win it hands down. It all started with that crazy '84 NAMM stunt. Seriously, they could teach Bose (the undisputed king of relentless audio hype as functional business model) a thing or two.
Posted By: mucci

Re: Kurzweil Triple Strike Piano - 06/23/11 10:38 PM

Haha, I like that one, dewster, especially the Bose thing... smile
Posted By: ando

Re: Kurzweil Triple Strike Piano - 06/24/11 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by dewster
Originally Posted by MVshabeer2
Also heard their 1999 model K2600 survived 10 years and was not beaten in sound quality by even the 2009 models.

Gotta hand it to Kurzweil - if there was an award for best DP hype ever, they'd win it hands down. It all started with that crazy '84 NAMM stunt. Seriously, they could teach Bose (the undisputed king of relentless audio hype as functional business model) a thing or two.


You got that right. I've lost count of the number of non-tech thinking novices who come back from Hi-Fi expos saying, "you should see the new Bose system. It's so tiny but it sounds like it's coming from massive speakers!". These are people with no appreciation of what a quality audio system is - they just lap up everything they are told. Every time I've experienced a Bose system in person, I've been very underwhelmed. Hype indeed.
Posted By: Glenn NK

Re: Kurzweil Triple Strike Piano - 06/24/11 12:19 AM

Originally Posted by mucci
Haha, I like that one, dewster, especially the Bose thing... smile


Dewster is right of course. smile

Glenn
Posted By: JFP

Re: Kurzweil Triple Strike Piano - 06/24/11 12:30 PM

...on the 2" issue; I don't know if they resampled it for the triple-strike version or later incarnations; still the very source is the 2" tape, which doesn't mean it has to be bad.

As said in other threads Kurzweil makes allround-gigging boards pretty well (PC3 series), but the sampled sounds in the ROM are quite old and the keybeds are not bad, but not the best either. (Keep in mind that allround playing can be compromised if you have a fully weighted piano keybed, therefore a more lightweight hammer mechanism like the TP40L (Kurzweil) or RD300NX may be better !). The effect section and synth engine are quite OK though and routing + programming very very flexible.

I think there isn't a single board on the marked that has ALL features everybody wants; even the Kronos - which comes pretty close! - has an inferior keybed. So there's always the pro's and con's to take in consideration for YOUR specific situation. Therefore I don't like to specify any product as simply GOOD or BAD, but always look at all factors that make a product fit in your situation or not. So do the Kurzweil's have the best acoustic sound reproduction ? No , I think you have to look at higher priced products like the Kronos/Motif XF in that respect, but since they are discounted in many regions they may (!) be a very good choice for certain situations (Live-gigs ?). Nord makes nice boards too , but they are higher up in the price range. It's all a matter of making your priority wish list , compare that to all available products ; make a selection of instruments that come close and try them out somewhere in a (good) shop.

J
Posted By: Gerard12

Re: Kurzweil Triple Strike Piano - 06/24/11 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by ando


You got that right. I've lost count of the number of non-tech thinking novices who come back from Hi-Fi expos saying, "you should see the new Bose system. It's so tiny but it sounds like it's coming from massive speakers!". These are people with no appreciation of what a quality audio system is - they just lap up everything they are told. Every time I've experienced a Bose system in person, I've been very underwhelmed. Hype indeed.


Yes. Thank you for that. To me, Bose systems make everything sound processed and artificial.

Due to my current state of financial distress, I've been gigging with a Pc2x that i bought way back - practically on the day it hit the street. I manage to smile my way through the stretched piano samples but it's getting harder to listen uncritically. Still makes a superb controller, though. I just wish that I can graduate to a software based rig soon.
Posted By: anotherscott

Re: Kurzweil Triple Strike Piano - 06/24/11 01:44 PM

[quote=JFP I think you have to look at higher priced products like the Kronos/Motif XF in that respect[/quote]
I forgot, with the XF, Yamaha finally put some of their better piano samples into the Motif line.
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