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Quick question about the Kawai MP10

Posted By: jscomposer

Quick question about the Kawai MP10 - 03/21/11 05:40 AM

Does it pass my test? grin

Depress the sustain pedal and strike a note or chord. Lift off the keys while holding the sustain pedal. The notes will sustain, of course, along with sympathetic resonance. Now, while still holding down the sustain pedal, depress the same keys but slowly enough so that no new notes are sounded. While holding down the notes, take your foot off the sustain pedal.

On a real piano the notes still sustain, minus the sympathetic resonance of the other strings which are now dampened. But on most digital pianos--and ALL Kawais I've tried--the notes are cut off as soon as you lift off the sustain pedal. Roland finally got it right with their new RD-700NX and FP-7F, though I neglected to listen to whether the sympathetic resonance was cut off (as it should be). I'll have to go back and try. But they don't yet have an MP10 for me to compare.

(I know it's an arcane technique, but I do use it.)
Posted By: AldoEsplay

Re: Quick question about the Kawai MP10 - 03/21/11 04:38 PM

Nope. Notes are cut off. All you hear is the sympathetic resonance of the sympathetic resonance if you understand what I mean.
Posted By: theJourney

Re: Quick question about the Kawai MP10 - 03/21/11 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by jscomposer
Does it pass my test? grin
...depress the same keys but slowly enough so that no new notes are sounded.


Do any of the Kawai instruments do this? I seem to remember there being some patent issues that didn't allow this functionality to be offered.
Posted By: EssBrace

Re: Quick question about the Kawai MP10 - 03/21/11 05:32 PM

Interesting. Just tried it on Roland FP-7F. Note still sounds but sympathetic resonance cuts off.
Posted By: PianoZac

Re: Quick question about the Kawai MP10 - 03/21/11 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by EssBrace
Interesting. Just tried it on Roland FP-7F. Note still sounds but sympathetic resonance cuts off.

Steve, when I get home, I'm gonna try this on the NP88, and see what happens. I'll let you know what I find. Nord really touts their sting/sympathetic resonance modeling (for good reason), so I'm wondering if this will happen with the NP88.
Posted By: voxpops

Re: Quick question about the Kawai MP10 - 03/21/11 05:56 PM

My GEM passes this test, the Kawai MP5 does not. Haven't tried it on the FP4 yet (I doubt it will pass).
Posted By: jscomposer

Re: Quick question about the Kawai MP10 - 03/21/11 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by EssBrace
Interesting. Just tried it on Roland FP-7F. Note still sounds but sympathetic resonance cuts off.


That's good! That's what's supposed to happen.

Originally Posted by theJourney
Do any of the Kawai instruments do this? I seem to remember there being some patent issues that didn't allow this functionality to be offered.


That's what Kawai told me when I asked them a few years ago. I have a hard time believing it. How can you possibly patent something like MIDI velocities 1-7 = no new note??? I'd wanna confirm that with Yamaha.
Posted By: PianoZac

Re: Quick question about the Kawai MP10 - 03/21/11 07:29 PM

I just walked into our conference room where we've got a 6'7" grand piano set up and tried this, and there is no change whatsoever. By pressing down the sustain, playing chords, the sustain naturally makes them ring out, just as if you were to physically hold the keys down, so when re-striking the same chords softly without creating new sounds again, and releasing the sustain, the result is the same. Those notes still ring out. I think I tried this on my RD-700GXF, and it worked like a real acoustic. I'll be curious to try it on the NP88.
Posted By: Kawai James

Re: Quick question about the Kawai MP10 - 03/21/11 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by theJourney
Do any of the Kawai instruments do this? I seem to remember there being some patent issues that didn't allow this functionality to be offered.


As noted on another thread, but perhaps worth repeating here:
The MP10 allows silent key-on, other Kawai DPs (currently) do not.

Cheers,
James
x
Posted By: mucci

Re: Quick question about the Kawai MP10 - 03/21/11 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by theJourney
Do any of the Kawai instruments do this? I seem to remember there being some patent issues that didn't allow this functionality to be offered.


As noted on another thread, but perhaps worth repeating here:
The MP10 allows silent key-on, other Kawai DPs (currently) do not.


That's nice, but I still have difficulties to understand why it's an issue to just implement this on e.g. the CA63, with a firmware update. It's a no brainer...

Both features (silent key pressing and releasing pedal with slowly pressed keys) should be updated in a future firmware update.
Posted By: jscomposer

Re: Quick question about the Kawai MP10 - 03/21/11 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by Kawai James
As noted on another thread, but perhaps worth repeating here:
The MP10 allows silent key-on, other Kawai DPs (currently) do not.

Cheers,
James
x


The manual indicates otherwise. See the graphs on page 41. At best, there's no new sound at MIDI velocity 0. But that's pretty useless. Can the curve be adjusted so that it starts a bit over to the right? I.e., Sound Volume = 0 and Keyboard Pressure = 8 (for example)

If not, I can't see how it allows for silent on.
Posted By: Kawai James

Re: Quick question about the Kawai MP10 - 03/22/11 12:05 AM

mucci, have patience.

jscomposer, those graphs are to illustrate the functionality of the 'Dynamics' parameter, which is used to adjust/tweak the responsiveness of the specified Touch Curve. However, to answer your question, no, I do not believe it is possible to set the exact velocity at which the note sounds.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: dewar

Re: Quick question about the Kawai MP10 - 03/22/11 01:09 AM

huh I never would have thought to test a digital for that in a store. Good tip.
Posted By: dewster

Re: Quick question about the Kawai MP10 - 03/22/11 02:45 AM

Originally Posted by jscomposer
That's what Kawai told me when I asked them a few years ago. I have a hard time believing it. How can you possibly patent something like MIDI velocities 1-7 = no new note??? I'd wanna confirm that with Yamaha.

I've neither seen nor heard any proof one way or the other, but I can believe it.

These days you can patent a ham sandwich. You can probably patent how you spread the mustard on said ham sandwich.
Posted By: puff

Re: Quick question about the Kawai MP10 - 03/22/11 03:21 AM


Some Australian has recently patented the Wheel. No Joke.

I actually have the original patent (on velum with massive wax seal in its own zink box)for 'central heating' (The Thermosyphon) taken out by Thomas Fowler in 1828.
It was ripped of by everyone and thier auntie at the time and so he neve patenting his calculating machine. Which was a shame as we may have had the computer a few decades earlier and thus no Bill Gates!
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