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Any other like SuperNATURAL sound tech?

Posted By: TheNoobPianist

Any other like SuperNATURAL sound tech? - 01/31/11 07:46 AM

I'm currently in search for my first DP. The SuperNATURAL sound technology from Roland seems to be very nice and I think it should be in every DP.

Roland's video about SuperNATURAL Sound
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6zHr5-aDNI

Any other maker has similar sound technology as this?
Posted By: CyberGene

Re: Any other like SuperNATURAL sound tech? - 01/31/11 07:55 AM

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Qbert

Re: Any other like SuperNATURAL sound tech? - 01/31/11 08:01 AM

grin
Posted By: Dr Popper

Re: Any other like SuperNATURAL sound tech? - 01/31/11 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by TheNoobPianist

Any other maker has similar sound technology as this?



Not yet, Not soon, but not too far away.
Posted By: curt88

Re: Any other like SuperNATURAL sound tech? - 01/31/11 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by TheNoobPianist
The SuperNATURAL sound technology from Roland seems to be very nice and I think it should be in every DP.


Attention DP Manufacturers!!! HE DIDN'T MEAN THAT!!

Please, as you were...
Curt
Posted By: FredFabulous

Re: Any other like SuperNATURAL sound tech? - 01/31/11 12:21 PM

PianoTeq, V-Piano. +1 to above.
Posted By: spanishbuddha

Re: Any other like SuperNATURAL sound tech? - 01/31/11 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by TheNoobPianist
I'm currently in search for my first DP. The SuperNATURAL sound technology from Roland seems to be very nice and I think it should be in every DP.


The SN sound is not universally liked by everyone. Technical superiority does not equate with musical superiority.
Posted By: ChrisA

Re: Any other like SuperNATURAL sound tech? - 01/31/11 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by TheNoobPianist
I'm currently in search for my first DP. The SuperNATURAL sound technology from Roland seems to be very nice and I think it should be in every DP.


Some people don't like it and prefer sample based sounds. My opinion is that SN sounds better than all but the better computer based samples.

I think DPs are headed to a kind of hybrid where the audio data stored in the piano is derived from samples but is highly proceed and drives a kind of model. Roland's "SN" is one attempt at this and I think there is room for more
Posted By: dewster

Re: Any other like SuperNATURAL sound tech? - 01/31/11 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by spanishbuddha
The SN sound is not universally liked by everyone.

Yes, and I can understand why. It has a very definite sonic signature, darker than most of what we hear today with all the super bright Japanese and Korean pianos about. I actually prefer the bright sound of our Young Chang, so the SN sound is something of an adjustment for me, and I am definitely coping with it. There are also phasey artifacts in the decays of some SN notes that are more apparent once you've played around with it. The decay of D6 sounds dead, like an overprocessed loop. I'm still in the experimental phase with ours so I don't know how much that can be eliminated or masked (though probably not much). The pedal sympathetic resonance seems fairly nice though, and it has a gazillion adjustments as it is obviously an in-line DSP effect.

Originally Posted by spanishbuddha
Technical superiority does not equate with musical superiority.

I think I get what you're saying here and I mostly agree with it. But for me, a person who just cannot stand audible looping, I'll take SN over virtually everything else out there for that reason alone. Additionally it is unstretched, which trumps most DPs (with the notable exception of all somewhat newer Kawais and Yamaha AG) and I hate audible stretching almost as much as I hate audible looping. Both grate on my ears and scream "listen to this butchered sample set!" Granted SN is in many ways a butchered sample set too, but it's done with more finesse.

SN passes all the tests in the DPBSD (silent replay, half-pedaling, quick damping, key sympathetic resonance, etc.) and some of those can be important to your playing technique.

That said, I long for the day when there will be a variety of DPs with >4GB sample sets out and about in the marketplace. It's not that I listened to SN and fell in love with the sound, it's that the competition is so crudely compressed that I almost can't care about it, and I ended up owning a SN DP more by default than anything else.
Posted By: Vectistim

Re: Any other like SuperNATURAL sound tech? - 02/01/11 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by dewster
SN passes all the tests in the DPBSD (silent replay, half-pedaling, quick damping, key sympathetic resonance, etc.) and some of those can be important to your playing technique.


Is it just me that wants a sample set that includes separate samples for when the piano pedal is pressed?

(Not that I would immediately go and get such a machine, but I don't understand why it doesn't seem to be in the top end machines, so that it might filter down to the lower models in some years' time.)
Posted By: CyberGene

Re: Any other like SuperNATURAL sound tech? - 02/01/11 12:07 PM

That's because of the half-pedal. Damper resonance is different depending on the degree to which damper pedal is pressed in addition to note sustain. Most of the current sample libraries use such samples and it sounds very unnatural even with those supporting half-pedal because you press the damper pedal very lightly and you can hear the resonance at its maximum level as though the damper has been fully depressed and that's extremely annoying. Damper resonance should be a separate effect, not just sample. Furthermore, the resonance itself is very complicated. On a real piano the order in which you play notes with damper pedal matters, because overtones are different each time, so the resulting resonance is unique and extremely dependant on each note played, its velocity and its order in time. That's why modeled pianos are the future but still not the present unfortunately.
Posted By: ando

Re: Any other like SuperNATURAL sound tech? - 02/01/11 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisA
Originally Posted by TheNoobPianist
I'm currently in search for my first DP. The SuperNATURAL sound technology from Roland seems to be very nice and I think it should be in every DP.


Some people don't like it and prefer sample based sounds. My opinion is that SN sounds better than all but the better computer based samples.

I think DPs are headed to a kind of hybrid where the audio data stored in the piano is derived from samples but is highly proceed and drives a kind of model. Roland's "SN" is one attempt at this and I think there is room for more


Don't the two bolded statements contradict each other?

The SN used in the HP series is sample-based with added information designed to replicate various features like resonance, hammer type, hammer velocity, pedalling. I actually think it's slightly better than the present V-piano due to it's reference to real piano sampling. There's no question that the SN has improved the velocity layer issue. It's all still evolving and has some way to go. I don't see myself buying a DP for a while yet because I think there will be some enormous improvements in the next 5 years. Until then, I'll stick with my trusty U3.
Posted By: PianoZac

Re: Any other like SuperNATURAL sound tech? - 02/01/11 08:52 PM

There isn't anything available from the manufacturers that's built in like SuperNATURAL tech. It's really really great stuff. I commend Roland for upping the ante. If I could figure out a way to tweak the Roland piano sound so that it could cut through better, my dream board (outside of my Nord Piano wink ) would be a ~40lb, PHA III Ivory Feel with the LCD screen of the NX, combined with a SuperNATURAL piano library for which to upload like on the Nord. That'd be a spectacular board.

You know I've found through my tiresome, expensive frown pursuit of finding the ideal stage piano that sounds, plays, feels good, while at the same time not breaking my back to move, that in the end, there won't be a best in all categories. Only a best 'compromise'. For me, and I stress for me, it was the Nord Piano. No it doesn't have the best piano action, no it doesn't have the cleanest most technical sound, no it's not the most feature-laden, and no it's not end-all-be-all, but is at worst case good in all the areas, and arguably excels beyond what else is out to me. It's light, plays well, sounds incredible, is uber-flexible, comes standard with the triple-pedal unit, which for me is super nice, is simply laid out, and offers the best set of compromises overall for what I need.

If I had the money, I'd have kept my RD-700GXF along with the Nord Piano because I do miss the RD SN and I miss the action, but I don't miss how terrible the Roland w/ SN sounds live, nor do I miss the length/weight. It still puzzles me that the DP manufacturers continue pushing out pianos they claim for stage use that weigh near 60lbs, and some even more!
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