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I Hate Classical Music

Posted By: netizen

I Hate Classical Music - 02/20/04 05:11 AM

A couple of threads over in the "Pianist Corner" reminded me of a recent piece in the New Yorker titled "Listen to This: A classical kid learns to love pop—and wonders why he has to make a choice".

A few quotes:

"I hate “classical music”: not the thing but the name. It traps a tenaciously living art in a theme park of the past. It cancels out the possibility that music in the spirit of Beethoven could still be created today. It banishes into limbo the work of thousands of active composers who have to explain to otherwise well-informed people what it is they do for a living. The phrase is a masterpiece of negative publicity, a tour de force of anti-hype. I wish there were another name."

"When I tell people what I do for a living, I see the same look again and again—a flinching sideways glance, as if they were about to be reprimanded for not knowing about C-sharps. After this comes the serene declaration of ignorance. The old culture war is fought and lost before I say a word."

Check it out online Here
Posted By: jgoo

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 02/20/04 09:55 AM

The thing that I really hate is how nobody even gives classical music a chance. They are all caught up in rap, which isn't even really music at all. I can remember watching a movie on tv with some friends and when it ended, he said that he had to change the channel because the credits had classical music playing which only I would be interested in.
Going back to rap, I have a feeling that many people who listen to it secretly don't even like it. They just do it fit in because rap is the current "thing". I hate rap, and don't pretend not to. I've tried to like it before, but it's never worked. The form of it is hideous, the messages that many of them put across are horrible (though that doesn't apply to all rap that I've heard), and its just plain annoying. I also hate how people just have to have their rap cranked with the bass all the way up. I just feel like taking a shotgun to the speakers of their radios. Urgh!
Posted By: jgoo

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 02/20/04 10:01 AM

To add onto my post, rap is taking over much more than just classical music and oldies. Even rock is unkown to most younger people now! A few months ago I mentioned Stairway to Heaven to some of the kids that I "kid-sat" over the summer, (ranging from 11 to 14 years in age) and they looked at eachother, and then back to me, and said "what's stairway to heaven?" I then told them that it is a song by Led Zeplin. Again, they looked at eachother, and then back at me, and said "what's led zeplin?" :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Posted By: azabache

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 02/20/04 07:53 PM

Hi jgoo,

Ok, I respect your right not to like rap, but I take issue with the fact that you've basically lumped all rap into one category and made a blanket statement. If someone said, "Bach, Beethoven, it's all the same and I don't think it's music anyway," no doubt you'd find the remark offensive, not to mention oh-so-ignorant. The soaring architecture of Bach and the raw, elemental force of Beethoven are equally genius, but not the same.

Yes, there are those who praise excess and regard women as little more than objects. There are those who spew nothing but anger and violence in their lyrics, and whose music grates on the ear. You could say that last statement for rock as well as rap. smile But I digress.

My point is this: rap, like other genres, is much more varied than the airwaves would have you believe. For every rapper preaching guns and money, you'll find others talking about something as ponderous as the state of our society, or something as light-hearted as getting wild at a party and enjoying every minute of it.

In the end, I'm completely in agreement with the author of the article. Why should we have to pigeonhole ourselves into genres? I like Bjork as much as I like Nappy Roots, Mozart as much as Piazzolla; should their differences matter?

Sorry if this all sounds overly preachy; but I *had* to step on the soapbox. :rolleyes:

cheers,
a
Posted By: David Burton

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 02/27/04 04:57 AM

ah yes a perenial topic. More when I get back home next week.
Posted By: piqué

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 02/27/04 05:33 AM

ooo, netizen! thanks for bringing this article to the attention of the forum.

i stumbled on it myself tonight, while i was reading the new yorker at the gym, and couldn't put the piece down. i really could relate to his childhood experiences of listening to his parents' recordings of bernstein's "music appreciation" series and all the great classic recordings.

his signature childhood piece was the eroica. mine was brahms' first. and my first switchover to "modern" music was at about the same age; my first "alternative" album was "the specials," a ska band from england. i was listening to pere ubu in new york and going to clubs in the late 70s early 80s where this wacky music was being played. i was nodding maniacally while on the elliptical machine while reading this.

so well written, too. a wonderful example of the personal essay. i had no idea the article was available online.
Posted By: RKVS1

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 02/27/04 03:11 PM

That was a great article, and Alex Ross turned some very interesting phrases.

Pique, I was also very happy when in 9th grade I was introduced to the L.Bernsteins series of music discussions. I missed some of them, (don't remember the discussion of Eroica) but was very interested in the 5th symphony study. Eroica is one of my favorites too, and I once saw a team of 11 pianists on 6 grand pianos play a transcription of it.

I've included a few of the quotes that I highlighted as I read the piece. Apologies to the band-width managers.

------
The music attracts the reticent fraction of the population. It is an art of grand gestures and vast dimensions that plays to mobs of the quiet and the shy. It is a paradise for passive-aggressives, sublimation addicts, and other relics of the Freudian world. Which may explain why it has a hard time expressing itself in the time of Dr. Phil.
--------

My inability to finish anything, much less anything good, left me with a profound respect for this impossible mode of making a living.
-----

Composition at its most intense is a rebellion against reality. No one except the very young demands new music, and even when we are young the gates of inattention crash down quickly
------

It is a strange American dream, this notion that music can give you a new personality, a new class, even a new race.
------

At an early performance of “Parsifal,” listeners hissed an unmusical vulgarian who yelled out “Bravo!” after the Flower Maidens scene. The troublemaker had reason to feel embarrassed; he had written the opera.
The Wagnerians were taking Wagner more seriously than he took himself—an alarming development.
--------

I start to clap, but the man with the score glares again. One does not applaud in the midst of greatly great great music, even if the composer wants one to! Coughing, squirming, whispering, the crowd visibly suppresses its urge to express pleasure. It's like mass anal retention.
--------

There are more,
Bob
Posted By: piqué

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 02/27/04 03:17 PM

you missed the line about necrophilia! laugh
Posted By: RKVS1

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 02/27/04 06:23 PM

It was Necrophilia? I read it as Neoconservative. I suppose there is a technical difference.

I also left out his 5-step process from gestation to indigestion, and didn't mention his mention of Wynton Marsalis.

But people can read it for themselves.

Bob


Bob
Posted By: Ed

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 03/02/04 03:07 AM

Thanks netizen. I enjoyed the article very much.
Posted By: snooey_go_getter

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 08/30/04 03:19 AM

I also find it rather annoying that many of those "rap" lovers tend to immediately associate "classical music" to only belong to "music geeks", and that everyone who listens to "classical music" is obsessed with mozart.

I, myself, just tell people I listen to "Instrumental Music". Of course, being a teen, this isn't exactly great for moving up in social status except in band class.
Posted By: Frosty87

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 09/03/04 08:05 PM

i play in several orchestra's as well as playing piano, and a few days ago, when i mentioned about the concerts id played and such, i got told that playing a classical concert isnt a real "gig".

Im only 16, so when i mention i listen to classical (used in the widest sense) music, i instantly get branded a "freak". It doesnt bother me personally, but i fail to see how four chord punk, is musically better than orchestral classics that have survived the centuries
Posted By: FallingLeaves

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 09/03/04 11:24 PM

I'd say I'm pretty lucky, because where I attend school (Hunter College High School, in case any of you were curious) the kids who like 'classical' music aren't a minority. In fact, unlike what was stated in the New Yorker article, kids in Hunter like sometimes very contrasting genres of music, like rock and 'classical.'

Is that true in any other high school?
Posted By: DW_mod

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 10/26/04 11:11 AM

Ha...LOL smile Interesting thread!!! smile
Let me share my experience with you... griviences I'm afraid.

Have u ever had the experience with people treating u 'weirdly' just because u play a decent 'classical' instrument?
I hate it when people think of musicians as high and mighty, to be more respected simply because we know music and thus shun away from us. Is it because they really think that we deserve the adoration or that they are being '.......I can't put this to words.....'?
Especially when they percieve us as class conscious( whom they themselves are in the first place ), hi-life beings with no clue about life sufferings, poverty, stress etc.
They do treat us differently, and on several occassions, pushed us away from themselves, knowingly, purposely! I think.
I.e: There was this one particular incident that really piseed me off.
I hate having vivacious cabby drivers talking non-stop all way through the journey...well, anyway. He was complaining to me about how tough life is for him...How unfair God is and the government and this and that. Man! He was one big angry machine! So, as a Christian, I thought it was my duty to enlighten him. I merely suggested to him that God is a fair being. He rains on the roof of the bad, and the roof of the good. That life itself is not eternal, and only whatever investment we had in His Kingdom is eternal. And though the path to righteousness is narrow, but all those who made it through will find riches and not poverty.
Then he snapped at me! 'What is your job?' 'What? A pianist!' "What would you musicians know about life!"
I thought that his statement was really unfair. Are we musicians plain silly or just really 'fortunate' good life beings to you? That we know not about pains and sufferings and are oblivious to things around us?

And I hate it even more when people give u that strange look when u say u teach music. And they go like:" What? Music? U can make ends meet by teaching music? U should have chosen another career... It's silly, How can u survive by doing music...."and blah blah blah ...Well, what do they know anyway?

Then there's the third type, that regards musicians as sages or demi-gods. I find them the most annoying. They speak to u delicately, and try to engage u in 'mediocre' conversations.
Waitress: "What? U want beef stew? Why don't u try this air flown steak. I think you will love it...."
Waitress: "Is the music too noisy?"
Waitress: " Oh, I don't think you like Britney Spears...let me change the song for u..."
Waitress: " Do u know who's Britney Spears?"...(Come on! I merely choosed to study music...I'm not a caveman! U should have seen their 'face of ultimate horror' when I mentioned that Linkin Park is great. )
Waitress: "...Really? U watch TV?..."
Witress: " U know how I wish I was like you... You can play music...that's so clever...Unlike me...I don't even understand music..." ( Come on! Get a life! )
Waitress: Oh no, wait! I know Be-tho-van. He wrote alot of symphonies right? Must be like Hundreds of them! Wow! He's a genius!...( Yeah, right... Hundreds? He only wrote nine. )

Oh Man! Please stop treating us differently. We're not 'caged clowns'...We are perfectly normal human beings. And yes, we eat crap and talk crap and watch crap TV shows just like everyone else.
So who's the freak now? And who's the class conscious?
Posted By: Voyager III

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 03/26/05 12:56 PM

After reading DW_mod's post, I must say that I never viewed the world that way. But perhaps that's because I haven't experienced enough in life yet, for I am only a freshman in high school. However, from what I HAVE experienced, people at school admire my talent. Being musically talented is just like being artistic or athletic - it's another skill in life. No one would criticize you for majoring in music. I realize that other music such as rap is becoming far more popular, but I still believe that a good fraction still enjoys classical music.
Posted By: Loki

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 07/14/05 06:12 AM

The people who dislike classical music just are incapable of understanding it. I myself am 15, but i attend a performing and visual arts school, so everybody listens to classical music.

In my experience, if you want to make someone like classical music, show them a piece thats easy to understand, but sounds really nice. I personally like the Fantasy Impromptu or the third movement of the moonlight sonata to make people listen to.
Posted By: Ancient Upright

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 07/25/05 07:54 PM

My family never listened to classical music, so I didn't even know it existed for years! Now I really like it. I think it should be given more respect.

I think it's kind of like a language, with it's message encoded in sound. Anyone agree?
Posted By: DantheMan

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 07/25/05 08:09 PM

("rap music"=oxymoron. It's an art, not music)

"When people hear “classical,” they think “dead.” "
interesting article!
Posted By: John Citron

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 07/25/05 08:49 PM

It's too bad that people view Classical music as dead because there is a lot more to it than meets the eye. This is typical of the times I guess. Many people today want instant gratification, with little work or with critical thinking. The sad part too is many schools have completely eliminated the art and music programs so no one is exposed to Classical music at an early age. Classical music takes a lot more work to absorb.

We also have to remember too that music, in general, is a reflection of the times when the composers lived. If we look back at Beethoven, and Debussy, for example, we can visualize the time in which they lived. Schubert, like his contemporaries was deep into the Classical style with the very structured and balanced approach to form. If we look at Debussy, you will see the Impressionists, and their paintings as in the works of Monet, Van Gogh and others. Rap is another style of popular music that unfortunately, to me anyway, is an easy way out. It represents the fast pace and instant gratification that many young people want today.

Just my 2-cents,

John
Posted By: ***musical princess***

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 08/19/05 06:10 PM

I tried to get a friend of mine to listen to a recording of Grieg's Concerto in A Minor the other day and he refused to listen. When i asked him why not he said because he doesn't like it. This intrigued me so i questioned him further. 'Have you actually *heard* any proper classical music?' To which he replied - 'No, i have never listened to it as i know i will hate it so whats the point'. Well, as you can imagine i got very cross at his ignorance. It really p*sses me off when people say they don't like something they have never even tried!!! mad

x
Posted By: pianojerome

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 08/19/05 06:19 PM

I was chatting with an old friend of mine on AOL a week or so ago. I said, "Have you ever heard any of Prokofiev's music?"

"No, I don't think so"

I told him that he's a modern classical composer. I said I was listening to some of his piano concertos, which are fantastic.

He said: "Oh, it must be really good then" [because it's 'classical music']. "But I didn't know there was such thing as modern classical music." ... "I didn't know the 1900's were included."

So I gave him a lecture.

And now he understands a little bit better. smile
Posted By: pianojerome

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 08/19/05 06:22 PM

See, here's the amazing thing:

Sometimes I tell people I listen to classical music, and rock music makes me nauseous, and they think I'm insane.

Quite often I tell people that I listen to classical music, and they are really impressed. They think it's really cool and intellectual that I listen to "classical" music. They wish that they could listen to classical music, too, but they never do. It's something too intellectual and too awesome. They couldn't possibly be good enough to listen to it. :rolleyes:
Posted By: ***musical princess***

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 08/19/05 07:49 PM

When will people learn, ey Sam?

:p

x
Posted By: pianocliff

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 08/19/05 08:25 PM

I hate the moniker "classical music" as well. It tends to give the impression that all classical music is "sedate" and "proper", just waiting for their audiences to fall asleep. As if! Classical music has some of the most beautiful and exciting themes to be found in any genre of musical expression. Not to mention the fact that "Modern Classical" is a complete oxymoron but if you say "Modern" music to a musical neophyte they will instantly think you are talking about Britney Spears or someone equally as disastrous.

Let's face it though, the world loves stereotypes. All rap isn't "gansta" style and all classical isn't mozart (not that there's anything wrong with mozart). It's hard to re-wire socially programmed stereotypes especially when we live in a society that is always examining itself in the mirror and trying to imitate the acts of people who shouldn't be imitated.


The biggest threat to modern musical appreciation (IMHO) is the way music is marketed to the younger generation. Music thesedays is about promotion, marketing, image, complex chreography, oh yeah and let's see what else...almost forgot....the music. The MUSIC often times seems like the last thing that some popular musical performers think about when in fact, it should be the only thing. Maybe its the influence of MTV, of the media, of overzealous marketing, i don't know what for sure, but I find more people who want to listen to what other people listen to than actually find music that interests them.

My musical interests vary from classical to new age to jazz to techno. I realize I am a musical conundrum, but it doesn't bother me because I listen to what I like in many different genres. Personally I've noticed that adults have a much better appreciation for music in general and tend to like a more diverse collection of music. Young kids and teenagers these days are very compelled to like the same sorts of things and of these music is a subset. The real danger is that these kids will grow up with a bunch silly stereotypes that they never tried to break down and as a result never discover certain types of music.


~pianocliff
Posted By: Tezzie

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 08/19/05 11:04 PM

I understand what you are all saying! I am 15, and my peers are OBSESSED with music as some kind of image. Who you are depends on what kind of music you listen to. It's "cool" to know all sorts of unknown rock bands that no-one's ever heard, because they haven't become "commercialised".

The people who listen to, I dunno, Pink Floyd are no different to fans of 50 Cent - they are only listening to it for the image. I am not saying either of these artists are bad, by any means. But they aren't appreciating the music, just the image that comes with it. And they don't accept other types of music outside their "style" at all.

I have nothing against any style of music. I don't particularly like some, but I listen to anything that sounds good. I have preferences (classical music being one), but no prejudices.

Although, though I do like some "modern music" (pop, r'n'b, etc), I do appreciate that the amount of practice and level of skill required to play a classical instrument IS alot higher than having your voice enhanced in a studio and shaking your booty!
Posted By: PerformingYak

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 12/08/05 01:52 AM

I just hate the broad use of "classical music" it is hard being a music teacher and trying to teach about the real classical era when the students seem to associate all music before 1930 as classical and really have trouble distinguishing between the different eras. (wow tha was a long sentence)

Quote
Im only 16, so when i mention i listen to classical (used in the widest sense) music, i instantly get branded a "freak". It doesnt bother me personally, but i fail to see how four chord punk, is musically better than orchestral classics that have survived the centuries
Try blasting them with some Carmina Burana or Ride of the Valkyries!
Some of my students get really freaked out when you point out how simple a lot of pop/ rock/ punk etc is. They also never realised that you can merge almost all Brittany Spears songs into one long medley without changing key. confused
Its even worse when the music the students listen to is just a remix of "classical music" and they don't even notice mad

Sometimes I hate being a teacher :p
Posted By: Arjen

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 12/26/05 10:36 AM

Do yourself a favor and check your favourite rock or rap forum. You'll find people complain how unfair it is everyone treats them like caged clowns, how everyone who listens to classical music only does so for the image and how vastly more difficult it is to speak 400 words a minute compared to pressing some keys on a piano.

I can neither play piano or rap well, I like listening to pink-floyd, didn't know all spears songs could be merged together without changing songs (although I admittedly don't know too many of her songs) and severely dislike cooked vegetables. Some people don't get that but that's ok. Gives me a chance to rant about it on a forum.

Or in other words: I don't do what I do for whatever image and as such I don't care whatever others think of it.
Posted By: DCshoesGIRL

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 12/27/05 02:48 AM

Yeah...some people dont give classical music a chance....but they just dont hear or understand what we do. Its just not translated to them the same.
Posted By: PerformingYak

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 01/11/06 02:59 AM

Quote
Do yourself a favor and check your favourite rock or rap forum. You'll find people complain how unfair it is everyone treats them like caged clowns, how everyone who listens to classical music only does so for the image and how vastly more difficult it is to speak 400 words a minute compared to pressing some keys on a piano.
Don't you worry now I also have problems with the amount of new genres of music emerging which all have to be lumped under "popular music" as well and people classifying so such under R&B when some of t isn't.
.......It's not hard to speak the 400 words a minute but to do it well and in a rhythmical way that still makes sense.... even harder when it is impromptu!
And good on you for the veges. Personally I don't eat any veges by choice, only coz I know I will get sick if I don't
Posted By: Prophetic

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 01/31/06 01:19 AM

I have my issues with classical music... As I was reading this I was thinking about it and I think because the classical period (Haydn... Beethoven... Kuhlau) always sound so proper and regal when I listen to them. The chords seem to be in sets of 3's for the tension to release but popular music it's one chord for tension one chord for release. I'm really trying to get my mind around it because I don't mind Baroque or anything from the Romantic Period on... weird. I still love me some classical of course. Chopin and Brahms being the two I can stand and really? The Brahms intermezzo I play right now could have a vocal line written above it and played on the radio. I think the same of Liszt's on Lake [Insert German word starting with W here] -- I'm playing it and I'm thinking, "Wow, these chords!"
Posted By: nutnoodle

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 02/04/06 11:51 PM

It really annoys me when people don't give "classical" music a chance. (by which I really mean all the orchestral music that the average Joe would call "classical"). Todays music evolved from classical music so I think it's a really important part of our history and listening to it can really help you grow as a musician, just as listening to any other types of music can...like jazz, rock and even rap.

I mean I've noticed parts of classical music that have cleary influenced jazz. Some of Debussy's music for example.

One thing I have always wondered. Why say "I hate classical"... or "I only like rap"? By doing it you're only restricting yourself as a person. It's the same as saying "I'm a goth" or "I'm an emo". I just don't understand this modern need some people have to strip away their individuallity and become one of the masses. Apart from anything else, with the number of songs in the charts which parts taken from classical songs (recently I realised the song played at the start of Bridget Jones's Diary - All By Myself, is actually taken from a piano concerto by Rachmaninoff!)... therefore anyone who says they hate classical music is either a liar or a hypocrite. *nods*
Posted By: PhotoJenny

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 04/26/06 05:46 PM

I've had the following conversation with people too many times:

"You listen to classical? Wow, me too!"
"Oh, nice! So what composers do you like?"
"Um...... I love the Moonlight Sonata by Mozart!"

Sad thing is, I'm not even kidding.

Also, as for rap music. To me, when I listen to a piece of music, if it's a song, I don't listen to the lyrics. I listen to the music, and this is what determines whether I like it or not. With rap music, it's more or less all lyrics, and I find it hard to appreciate something like this.
Posted By: PerformingYak

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 05/05/06 02:59 AM

It isn't all in the lyrics. Sure some of them are witty or controversial but I find myself tuning out and listening to the syncopation and interesting rhythms the rappers can get out of their words while still having a great flow..... its just a pity when you get a bad one:)

Quote
"(recently I realised the song played at the start of Bridget Jones's Diary - All By Myself, is actually taken from a piano concerto by Rachmaninoff!)... "
Wow, cool! thumb . There's another one to add to my list. It always amazes the students when you tell them "Friends Forever"(or whatever the name is) by Vitamin C is actually Pachabels Canon, or that the Jaws theme is originally Wagner

I totally agree that people box themselves in by giving themselves labels. Rather than say I"I only listen to..." I prefer to say " I don't really like most.....(usually country western)... but I give it a chance"
Posted By: Les Koltvedt

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 05/06/06 11:48 AM

Quote
Originally posted by PerformingYak:
Try blasting them with some Carmina Burana or Ride of the Valkyries!


Have them watch OLD cartoons
Posted By: Loki

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 05/10/06 03:29 AM

Quote
Originally posted by PhotoJenny:

Also, as for rap music. To me, when I listen to a piece of music, if it's a song, I don't listen to the lyrics. I listen to the music, and this is what determines whether I like it or not. With rap music, it's more or less all lyrics, and I find it hard to appreciate something like this.
yeah, i tend to listen to the beat and the music before i listen to the actual words.
Posted By: xyz2004slc

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 05/16/06 11:56 PM

I don't think that you should put down any type of music. Believe it or not, even rock music requires a lot of creativity on the composer's part (I can't comment on punk/rap/metal/emo music/etc. etc. etc. because I don't really listen to them). The difficulties of rock may or may not be the same as the difficulties of classical music, but there are difficulties. Why is some rock good and some bad? The good ones have structure (yes, structure). Just listen to Daniel Powter's "Bad Day". There is music, not just long, bland sentence like a song that involves the month September. smile
Posted By: lungfish

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 02/04/07 05:39 AM

Quote
Originally posted by PhotoJenny:
"You listen to classical? Wow, me too!"
"Oh, nice! So what composers do you like?"
"Um...... I love the Moonlight Sonata by Mozart!"
haha thats the worst.


but yeah, speaking from someone who likes most all kinds of music,
every, and i repeat, every genre of music has many artists that are truly that, artists. and they make incredible music. hip hop (or rap) is a perfect example as azabache made it perfectly clear in his post. same goes for rock (although even for the stern and exclusively classical music listener, i don't think rock has to be stood up for. good rock at least.) and jazz and afrobeat and electronic music and all that.

a real musician, i think, is one that knows that every conceivably musical thing is music. in one way or another. it just depends on whether ones eyes is open enough to see it.
Posted By: lordlactose

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 03/01/07 03:35 AM

I have no appreciation for some idiot standing next to a computer generating music and yelling profanitites.

I rather see a master of an instrument pounding away with great skill on an instrument like the guitar or piano.

any fool can be a rapper. but only the divine can be great mucisians

rap if for the simple minded scumbags
Posted By: PerformingYak

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 03/06/07 10:38 PM

Thanks for he controversy the Lordlactose.

Any fool can be a rapper, but any fool cannot be a GOOD rapper. Some of the best are those who can get a real flow of words straight off the top of their head without having to write it down or think too much. THAT is the type of rap which should be apprectiated more.

The beauty of rap is in the clever and witty but at the same time highly rhythmical way they put their words together. Try it at home, come up with some incredibly witty social comments of your own and string them together to a beat without stopping for a couple of minutes, it isn't that easy after all.

And the breath control of a good rapper... WOW.
As for yelling profanities, what about Linkin Park... or MC Hammer:D

Unfortunately all genres of music at some stage have become susceptible to the perils of commercialism.... and yes SOME of that Is for the simple minded, generally put together with a beat and a hook and not much else (but hey, it makes a lot of money). However I wouldn't call them scumbags.
Posted By: namekuseijin

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 03/17/07 06:37 PM

Quote
Originally posted by azabache:

For every rapper preaching guns and money, you'll find others talking about something as ponderous as the state of our society, or something as light-hearted as getting wild at a party and enjoying every minute of it.
ok, and where is the rapper making actual music rather than lyrics?
Posted By: PerformingYak

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 03/20/07 10:52 PM

At my school....

The kids were on a music camp this year and put all the music together themselves and over the top they had their own raps... which they wrote.


There's also Mike Shinoda from Linkin Park,
The Hilltop Hoods, Limp Bizkit. Rap isn't just the rapper, there is often a band attached.

Oh yeah, and the students didn't write about guns and money, they wrote about being aboriginal (it was a camp for indigenous students), their connection to the land and their people, their feelings and so on. Some of their music was really good and quite professional.
Posted By: pianoid

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 03/23/07 08:23 PM

Quote
Originally posted by PerformingYak:

Oh yeah, and the students didn't write about guns and money, they wrote about being aboriginal (it was a camp for indigenous students), their connection to the land and their people, their feelings and so on. Some of their music was really good and quite professional.
You say they *wrote* about being aboriginal, their land etc and then you go on to say their *music* is actually quite good. I don't know of any *music* capable of saying about one's origins or their land...

oh, you were talking about poetry, not music! my bad...
Posted By: PerformingYak

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 03/25/07 10:22 PM

No need to be so condescending and sarcastic...read the rest of the thread and you won't miss the point.

They also wrote music to go along with the lyrics... The point being that some rappers are actually capable of creating music as well as rap lyrics. It isn't just the lyrics that make rap a style of music.

As for music being able to say things about feelings, well there is plenty out there... what about Smetana and the Moldau??
It might not say it in lyrics but the feel of the music- pitches, rhythms, dynamics etc. There is the woods, the peasants wedding, the hunt. And before you say anything, yes you can kind of tell there is peasants etc around by the music, not just from some blurb at a concert telling you so.
Posted By: Jeanne W

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 03/25/07 10:39 PM

People tend to be comfortable with what they know and tend to stick with what they know.

Hence people liking the kind of music they like and not really giving other music much of a chance.

Though it's true not everyone is going to like every kind of music or every piece of music within a type of music. We all have our own personal likes and dislikes.

Also at a certain age, people tend to want to continue to listen to the music of their youth. That drives me crazy. All the radio stations I listen to for popular music, play so many ancient pieces of music in between - I want to hear NEW music. Not ancient stuff from the 60's and 70's and 80's whatever!

We could debate classical and rap and other things about music all day long and we'd still all never agree on anything. laugh

Jeanne W
Posted By: Ted

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 03/28/07 03:22 AM

I tended to critically and foolishly eliminate much music when I was young, thereby depriving myself of years of pleasure. One of the joys of aging is that I find I am much broader in outlook, willing to listen to and sometimes appreciate much that I would have rejected in my youth. One of the keys to this freedom was the elimination of all negative extra-musical association. For instance, I didn't like Bach for years because of irrelevant associations with Bach the man and what other people said his music was all about. Once I allowed nothing but the pure sound to enter my mind and gave myself the freedom to respond unconsciously to it, I began to like it very much.

Of course the method doesn't work if you just simply do not like the sounds per se, as is the natural right of any listener, but so many people seem to unnecessarily reject large regions of the musical landscape for reasons which have nothing whatever to do with its actual sound. They might harbour negative visual, social and historical images or avoid a type of music because somebody they respect musically tells them it isn't any good.
Posted By: pianoid

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 03/28/07 06:19 AM

Quote
Originally posted by Jeanne W:

I want to hear NEW music. Not ancient stuff from the 60's and 70's and 80's whatever!
Jeanne, if you've never listened to a particular piece of music before, be it from the 60's or from the middle ages, it's entirely NEW TO YOU. In fact, it's newer than stuff you've been listening for the past year, say...

Our worldly existence is absolutely relative...
Posted By: pianoid

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 03/28/07 06:29 AM

Quote
Originally posted by PerformingYak:

It isn't just the lyrics that make rap a style of music.
Actually, lyrics don't make any style of music at all. Music is music, poetry is poetry. Completely distinct arts.

Quote
Originally posted by PerformingYak:

As for music being able to say things about feelings, well there is plenty out there... what about Smetana and the Moldau??
There is the woods, the peasants wedding, the hunt. And before you say anything, yes you can kind of tell there is peasants etc around by the music, not just from some blurb at a concert telling you so.
So, you know peasants use certain kinds of rhythms, melodies and particular instrumentations and so whenever you listen to sections going like that in the middle of a symphony, you're able to identify the composer is talking about peasants, right? Same for birdsinging in the voice of a violin or flute.

But that only works insofar as you have contextual knowledge of those things. If I'm from a country where no nightingales live and I've never listened to them, I wouldn't know music featuring it is referring to birds. Similarly, the same about peasants from some distant countries or from ancient times.

Music can't say anything by itself, without some contextual knowledge. It can talk directly to your heart and only that.
Posted By: pianoid

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 03/28/07 06:55 AM

Quote
Originally posted by PerformingYak:

the Jaws theme is originally Wagner
Actually, though John Williams music is largely Wagnerian-influenced, the Jaws theme is actually "inspired" by the beginning section of Stravinsky's magnificent and revolutionary music for the ballet "The Rite of Spring/Le Sacre du printemps". It was the music that actually brought "art" music to the 20th century. If you haven't yet, I urge you to listen to a recording of it. Pick the original orchestral version, not the piano transcription...

Williams was also "inspired" by it for some of the music for even Star Wars, notably the Tatooine theme.
Posted By: pianoid

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 03/28/07 07:02 AM

Quote
Originally posted by xyz2004slc:

The difficulties of rock may or may not be the same as the difficulties of classical music, but there are difficulties.
yeah, like playing the 3 chords while stoned or/and playing the guitar with the teeth...
Posted By: Frank_W

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 03/28/07 06:23 PM

I love Rachmaninoff, Prokofiev, Beethoven, Chopin, Saint-Saens, and so many others. That stuff hits me right in the heart!! WOW!!

The stuff that really turns me OFF to classical, and I suspect this is true of many other people, is hearing huge orchestral arrangements of classical, where there's this tiny little piccolo solo, played so softly that you have to crank the stereo to barely hear it, and then BOOM!!!!!! HERE COMES THE TIMPANI AND THE HORNS AND THE HUGE STRING SECTION AND IT'S BLOWIN' ME BACK AGAINST THE BACK WALL AND RATTLING THE FRIGGIN' WINDOWS!!!!!

Holy cow... It's louder and more obnoxious than heavy metal ever was!!

My first exposure to Debussy, for instance, was an album of his music being played by an orchestra. It sounded horrible. It really did... I swear, I've never heard anything more cacophonous in my life. Yuck.... It was horrid. It took me a long long time before I gave his music a chance, but when I heard it performed by a piano soloist, it was so beautiful, my eyes welled up with tears.
Posted By: PerformingYak

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 03/29/07 12:03 AM

I think there are people who need to open their minds and actually listen to other forms of music with great solos in them etc, not just what they are comfortable with.... not mentioning any names of course, but they have posted on this page and may have made reference to stoned rock musicians.

And my apologies for assuming that people might know a little about other cultures. The peasant dance is not just due to the peasant rhythms and harmonies, it is also the general roughness and dance feel of it. If you know the country the composer is from and the approximate area he is describing you'd have a fair idea of what the music is doing. So yes, it does involve a very small degree of insight.... I wouldn't say it speaks to my heart, rather to my intellect.

Quote
Music is music, poetry is poetry. Completely distinct arts.
Rhythm is a factor in both music and poetry.


As for the Jaws theme... I did not know that.
eek but it does bare a great resemblance to parts of the ring cycle.
The Rites of Spring is one of my favourites, I could listen to it day after day after day
Posted By: louisquinze

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 03/29/07 12:29 AM

I guess it all depends on how you define music - If you go with Varese you will subscribe to 'organised sound' which does open the field enormously. 20th century classical music( Western Art Music) was criticised and derided for not 'being music'. We all have our favourites and while different genres require different levels of technical competence they are all expressions of human experience and emotion. (And you have to hand it to those who make a fortune on very little - but that's a social problem [Media?], not a musical one)
Posted By: pianoid

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 03/29/07 03:51 PM

Quote
Originally posted by louisquinze:
20th century classical music( Western Art Music) was criticised and derided for not 'being music'.
Yes, indeed. To me, serial works sound like richly structured, formaly written streams of noise.
Posted By: Jeanne W

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 03/29/07 09:06 PM

Quote
Originally posted by Frank_W:

The stuff that really turns me OFF to classical, and I suspect this is true of many other people, is hearing huge orchestral arrangements of classical, where there's this tiny little piccolo solo, played so softly that you have to crank the stereo to barely hear it, and then BOOM!!!!!! HERE COMES THE TIMPANI AND THE HORNS AND THE HUGE STRING SECTION AND IT'S BLOWIN' ME BACK AGAINST THE BACK WALL AND RATTLING THE FRIGGIN' WINDOWS!!!!!

Holy cow... It's louder and more obnoxious than heavy metal ever was!!

Frank W. you made me laugh! I know exactly what you're talking about. A lot of classical music is impossible to listen to, for instance, at work, where I play CD's at my desk, but keep the volume level down. Some I have to constantly crank up louder to hear the quieter sections and then turn down WHEN THE DRAMA STARTS. This kind of music is best heard at home where I can appreciate the change in dynamics.

Something came to me the other day about this ---what I have to say could possibly be akin to blasphemy or heresy or whatever, at least to some people, but I'll say it anyway....

In a recent thread PW member said his view is every piece of music should have soft and loud parts and a climax, if you will. The idea being that music that is soft and melodious and maintains an even tempo throughout quickly gets boring.

It came to me, could it be that people who have become accustomed to those VERY DRAMATIC TYPES OF CLASSICAL music have become somewhat desensitized? The result being they cannot appreciate a simple, but beautiful piece of music that maintains a quiet elegance throughout the entire piece?

I'M AFRAID NOW.

Please try not to be too hard on me, Fellow PW Members.

laugh

Jeanne W
Posted By: Jeanne W

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 03/29/07 09:15 PM

Quote
Originally posted by pianoid:
Quote
Originally posted by Jeanne W:
[b]
I want to hear NEW music. Not ancient stuff from the 60's and 70's and 80's whatever!
Jeanne, if you've never listened to a particular piece of music before, be it from the 60's or from the middle ages, it's entirely NEW TO YOU. In fact, it's newer than stuff you've been listening for the past year, say...

Our worldly existence is absolutely relative... [/b]
I agree. To explain a little...

The radio station I LOVED changed their format. Up until about 2 years ago, they played mostly tasteful new music and threw in a couple of golden oldies every so often.

Then I read in the newspaper a study that concluded a certain music mix was the most successful for radio stations. And I guess "my" radio station was one of many who changed to that new format.

New Format=75% old music / 25% new music.

If I wanted to hear OLDIES I'd listen to an OLDIES station. And they never play anything obscure, only those songs that make you groan when you hear them YET AGAIN.

GROAN.

I'm getting off my high horse now. Promise. laugh

Jeanne W

P.S. I guess that music is new to any younger people listening. But I think that really they are catering to the people in my age bracket, most of whom DO WANT to hear those old tunes.
Posted By: Jeanne W

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 03/29/07 09:17 PM

THE DREADED DOUBLE POST

I replied to myself!

laugh

Sorry.
Posted By: Johan B

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 04/27/07 05:48 PM

There is just one type music......it is the music you like!
Wether it is classical,jazz, pop, or contemporary music.

By the way: Music is a way of living. Nothing more, nothing less.

The discussion made me laugh.

Have fun.....by listening to your own music. It is no use to try and convince each other.

Greetings,

Johan B
Posted By: pastafarian

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 04/27/07 06:11 PM

I had to laugh at the comments which read like "rap is not music , it's poetry or 'just words' or some other such nonsense..." as though the human voice can not be a musical instrument. I'm not a rap fan, but even so, it's not hard to figure out that the human voice can take the role of any instrument including a percussion instrument.

You don't have to like it (I don't), but unless you have your own personal definition of the word "music" that no one else is privy to, you have to admit that it is, in fact, music.

As to what is "good" music or not, "good" has,is and always will be defined as "what the speaker likes". Period.
Posted By: pianoid

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 04/27/07 07:23 PM

Quote
Originally posted by pastafarian:
I had to laugh at the comments which read like "rap is not music , it's poetry or 'just words' or some other such nonsense..." as though the human voice can not be a musical instrument.
well, sure. Except, of course, that in rap the human voice isn't used as a melodic instrument to any reasonable degree. They don't actually sing, they talk to a rhythm and that's about it.
Posted By: pastafarian

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 04/27/07 07:57 PM

...which is why I added
Quote
human voice can take the role of any instrument including a percussion instrument.
Now, I suppose a person could try to make the case that percussion is not music, and the corollary that drummers are not musicians, but that person would not be me.
Posted By: pianobrick

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 05/07/07 01:59 PM

Quote
Originally posted by pastafarian:
...which is why I added
Quote
human voice can take the role of any instrument [b]including a percussion instrument.
Now, I suppose a person could try to make the case that percussion is not music, and the corollary that drummers are not musicians, but that person would not be me. [/b]
Pastafarian: hahaha, excelent smile
Posted By: PerformingYak

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 05/08/07 01:59 AM

aren't drummers glorified metronomes? laugh

KIDDING!!!!!
biggest respect to good drummers, some of the stuff they do is just insane!
Posted By: pianist.ame

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 07/08/07 01:03 AM

I feel sorry for people who do not know how to appreciate classical music.
Posted By: 'fredo

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 08/03/07 03:02 PM

Honestly I like all music.
Posted By: AdamG

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 08/23/07 05:21 PM

I listen to everything from gangster rap to j-pop, from death metal to love metal, from classic rock to indie, from techno to jazz, from pop to ska and I love it all, I don't believe that people can just like 1 genre of music and basically like everything that comes out of it because there is good music in every genre. There is something from every genre that makes my skin have goosebumps or make me smile when that wonderful chord progression chimes in.

And on the note of classical, when I play classical music for my friends they are not only in awe at my ability but usually at the beauty of the piece too.
Posted By: David Marsden

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 10/15/07 09:24 PM

I was in a professional symphony orchestra for a number of years, and was always surprised at the excitement for "classical" music that was fostered by the symphony's outreach programs. We would do a series of "Young People's Concerts" designed to acquaint the younger school-aged generation with "the classics." I always liked the gig because it was during the day and they had a catered lunch (fringe benefits, heh!).

When people ask me what kind of music I like, I tell them I like everything but country and rap. That statement happens to be true. There is a lot of music that only passes as tolerable, but from Beethoven to the Beatles, Mozart to Motley Crue, there's a lot of great stuff out there.

The tragedy is that we're labeled "freaks" because we've been willing to branch out. Most popular music comes and goes. You can almost tell someone's age by the first 5 bands they name off the top of their head. But imagine a world without Beethoven's 9th symphony, and that's where the real tragedy lies.
Posted By: swingal

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 01/07/08 09:49 PM

Quote by Amelialw:- I feel sorry for people who do not know how to appreciate classical music.

I would suggest that it is often not that they do "not know how......." but have their brain and senses designed differently from others. None of us are alike usually, often huge differences in the brain area, that controls the senses and reactions to sounds and eye views such as paintings.

We who can understand music naturally, are born that way IMO.

By all means,we can wish to re-define names for styles of music but that is only superficial, as the music is what it is. I understand what I like and dislike some other music which I do not have
harmonic vibrations to my natural sense of music.

I love jazz with a solid beat, usually some that the can be danced or jived to. My era is the 1930/40s Benny Goodman and others from that period. Solo jazz piano from the Scott Joplin days and Fats Waller and many others.

As well as Jazz I like many of the piano Classics and have been to good concerts which is enthralling. However, nothing gets my senses more than the jazz piano I mention above.

Its all in our genes in my view. My mother, born in 1901, played like Fats Waller and taught me to play by ear, I'm nearly 80 now and it has given me the most enduring soul sensations which stand alone.

Alan (swingal)
Posted By: Muzzzz

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 02/20/08 11:36 PM

I'm at the stage where genre means nothing to me... I seek out and listen to good music no matter what genre it is...

Just to clarify, the common perception of 'rap' in this thread is severely misguided... 50 Cent or basically any other product (not musician) that gets onto radio is basically rubbish, but there are fantastic musicians and bands who use rap to very effective precussive effect, just as Bartok used the piano as a percussion instrument.

My listening styles range from Baroque to Classical (the period) to Romantic (again, the period) to jazz, fusion, rock, progressive metal, and to even - dare i say it - death metal (and no it does not make me want to worship satan and kill people lol, another stereotype which has to go).

There is good and bad in every genre. Don't close yourself off.
Posted By: Music love

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 02/21/08 06:20 PM

I think that thoes who say they dont like classical music, proberbly havent every listened to it, becuase they think its boring or uncool.
But i bet if you made them listen to a piece of classical music that is easy to listen to such as:

Nimrod from the enigma variations or the swan from carnival of the animals. which is so beautiful, or even something more exciting such as the 1812..

i bet you they would like it.

it really frustrates me when people say they dont like it, but havent actually listened to any!
Posted By: hotkeys

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 02/21/08 06:43 PM

What may be helpful is that any piano recitals (or any orchestra or band concerts) have a mix of classical, popular, country, etc. to appeal to all the generations (make it family friendly). And have an amateur's night once in a while. A great way to bring the community together...
Posted By: Virtual008

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 05/13/08 09:17 AM

Quote
Originally posted by pianoid:
Quote
Originally posted by xyz2004slc:
[b]
The difficulties of rock may or may not be the same as the difficulties of classical music, but there are difficulties.
yeah, like playing the 3 chords while stoned or/and playing the guitar with the teeth... [/b]
Are you really serious?
I think part of the reason people don't give classical music or any other music a chance is they find the fans of that music can be condescending and elitist about their music compared to other music.
I hate most rap and pop but I have a big problem with artists that say other art isn't art.Voices ,guitars ,drums and any other instrument can make great works of art to people who enjoy and understand them.
Posted By: Kahlaireeah

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 05/15/08 02:38 PM

Well, I think it's best to think of music as individuals man. Seriously, I posted here yesterday about something similar concerning this, and I've come to the conclusion that...

well... genres are pure bullshit.

When you say you hate rap... You really mean you hate lil' wang or 50 cent or whatever...

When you say you hate classical music... well, you most likely can't even name the composer you hate in the first place, lol.

Well thats how I see it. I think it's impossible to categorize music like this, I think it only makes sense to say you hate a certain song, and to some extent, it's impossible to say you hate a particular artist, unless of course you've listened to all of his/her music and determined that you do indeed hate all of it.
Posted By: Mechanical Doll

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 05/17/08 02:03 AM

Quote
Originally posted by pianocliff:
The biggest threat to modern musical appreciation (IMHO) is the way music is marketed to the younger generation. Music thesedays is about promotion, marketing, image, complex chreography, oh yeah and let's see what else...almost forgot....the music. The MUSIC often times seems like the last thing that some popular musical performers think about when in fact, it should be the only thing. Maybe its the influence of MTV, of the media, of overzealous marketing, i don't know what for sure, but I find more people who want to listen to what other people listen to than actually find music that interests them.
I agree that the business aspect is was drives the music industry now. That's why we have barely-clad teenagers shaking their nether regions selling seven million copies of their album. I won't say MTV is solely to blame, but they sure as heck contribute to the problem. I'd heap most of the blame on them, except they really don't even play music videos anymore (just endless reruns of "reality" programming), however the minute they started tying "image" to the music, the descent began.

Quote
Originally posted by Arjen:
Do yourself a favor and check your favourite rock or rap forum. You'll find people complain how unfair it is everyone treats them like caged clowns, how everyone who listens to classical music only does so for the image and how vastly more difficult it is to speak 400 words a minute compared to pressing some keys on a piano.
I suppose any genre other than pure "pop" feels undervalued. However, it's hard to summon much pity for a genre populated by people who don't have any regard for something other than a turn table, synthesizer or drum machine.

Not that I have any interest or great love for Scott Storch (he's written for Christina Aguilera and other pop acts), but I found it appalling that when he had a falling out with most of the HipHop/R&B world, the insult they leveled at him was "Pianoman." I kid you not. They pretty much told him he sucked because he composed on the piano. See for yourself:

YouTube video by D.O.E.

Scott Storch Wiki entry (check under conflicts)

Maybe he's a jackass, maybe not, but you're going to bust on him because he can actually play an instrument!?!?! Kiss my thumb to what pastafarian said.

People are free to rule out entire genres if they want to, but my feeling has always been that the more music I give a chance to, the more I'm going to discover.
Posted By: bukopaudan

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 05/17/08 02:10 AM

I agree, classical music is taking a back seat and not even given an opportunity. My friends cringe at the word "classical" and then cringe more when it's followed by "music." The generic is that it's boring--and that's stuck in their heads. they never think otherwise, and they never try it. Nor have the ever experienced playing it, or listening to it. They just go on judgements--judging music is just as bad as judging people!

I don't have anything against any style of music--I lean more towards other kinds, I have favorites and not-favorites, but there are still the classics. (Just like in literature!)
Posted By: Bech

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 12/09/14 04:34 AM

The music you like is usually the music popular in your home and social group. The music you "grew-up with."

Like father, like son--like parents, like offspring.

Then there's some people who have no interest in any kind of music. I have no doubt they can enjoy life as much as the avid music lover. The world's a big place with many, many great things of interest.

Bech

Posted By: bnolsen

Re: I Hate Classical Music - 12/18/14 11:29 PM

I don't know. I sang a lot of classical, played quite a bit of it. I started collecting some CDs. Then I realized I couldn't stand listening to a large chunk of classical music for any extended periods. I guess that's true of most music in general.

But it shouldn't be forgotten that "classical music" was a product of royalty and upper class patronage. They developed a taste for this music in part because they wanted to differentiate themselves from the peasant masses. I really wonder when classical music hasn't been considered generally snobbish and elitist.

So classical music finds a home in movie sound tracks while modern media allows exposure to all types of music.
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