Hello...32 years old beginner here. :-)

It's been barely into 5 months of my learning process at a dedicated piano school and I'm already being skeptical about my second teacher with whom I've had only 5 0.5 hour sessions so far.
I mean, I had not even finished the Beyer's book with the first teacher before this new teacher changed approach to teach from Aaron's first book and having not finished the book, he's giving me homework like Beethoven's Sonata No1.

It's not a difficult piece if I know the proper finger technique and rotation and stuff. However I have not quite learned those things yet. I mean I've only been through less than half of the Beyer's book, same with the Aaron's and a few preliminary simple scale exercises plus a few exercises from the Schmit's. Mind you, the first teacher did the same thing and asked me to learn a piece named "Romance" and I did the thing albeit in lower tempo however I still can't jump with ease between long distance keys like an octave apart when I try to practice that piece again.

The thing is, I feel he is as undisciplined as the previous teacher,like, they rush to teaching pieces that seems to me to be too much of a jump if you know what I'm saying. Like, they are not taking me through the baby steps so that it takes appropriate time and energy for me to learn a piece.

Another complain is that he tends to push me toward "real" tempos as indicated in exercises while ignoring finger techniques and jumps.

It just feels to me that they think since I am an adult beginner I should be able to figure things out on my own.

Anyone with similar experience here? Any recommendations beyond communicating this stuff with my teacher? Am I being lazy or am I making excuses?

To clarify, I don't really consider myself a lazy person. If all there's to learning piano can be summed up as following the fingering and notes practicing slowly etc etc then why do we need teachers?

Then again, I am just beginning and maybe I shouldn't expect much at this stage.

I would stick with it a few more months. Being challenged is always good. Make sure you tell them of some of you’re difficulties and what they recommend for that. Did someone recommend this instructor to you, or how did you come across them?

You really raise the most important basics like rhythm and fingering. You sho7kd strive to be able to figure out both on your own. Fingering essentials are a big building block for your future with piano.

Best of luck to you.

Yeah well, I did like the challenge with the first piece, and yet even after beating it, I'm still doubtful whether that was an appropriate piece for my level because of the amount of time I had to put into it to make it with the lower than notated tempo.

Regarding fingering, I always tend to expect from the teachers to help me take my baby steps like a pre-adult beginner, but so far they have left me unfulfilled unless I explicitly bring it up with them the next session.

And no he was not recommended to me, nether was the first one. They all teach at a piano school and the arguable plus at such a dedicated piano school seems to me that I can jump from one teacher to another given there are many (perhaps mediocre ones) of them.

Thanks for wishing me luck. :-)

Beethoven sonata 1 - really?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5dL-65mKe0

Are you sure they recommend this after a few months or is it a simple reduction of one of these movements?

Yes that would raise major alarm bells. It is a complex piece and not for beginners or intermediate pianists.

lol sorry I meant
Beethoven : Sonatina in G Major

Admittedly pretty simple piece. I just want to make sure it's a standard and appropriate piece for my level.

Haha - no problem. Interestingly I had played this piece as one of my first pieces, however, I spent months completing the method book. I remembered the book. After that I did grade 1 exam, so I think it may be ok. Good luck.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Piano-Lessons-Book-Waterman-Harewood/dp/0571500242

The piece was at the end of the method book above.

it is really hard to comment without also having the teacher's point of view. However, when a teacher asks you to learn a piece, it is not always that they expect you are going to learn it well. You are a beginner after all. There might be a particular lesson or technique within a piece they want you to learn. You might even find yourself learning many pieces but not quite mastering any, or few, for a long while such is the nature of being a beginner.

Above all, the advantage of being an adult is to ask questions of the teacher adult to adult.

It's a great question. The truth is you don't need a teacher to do those things, but it really helps having someone constantly looking over your shoulder (as long as they have your best interests in mind). In the initial years I would have thought of my teachers as guides, now with close to eight years of instruction, I look upon my teacher as more of a mentor. Some might not get that, but to me there is a vast difference between the two. Especially since my initial teachers could only take me so far before I needed someone much more in tune with my needs. My advice is just to hang in there and review every six months or a year, because nothing happens quickly with piano 😎.

+1.

I think it's worth to talk to him seriously first. Tell him about the skills that you're missing now and that you would like to be taught before proceeding to more difficult pieces. Probably he will understand.

Consider that teachers talk to each other. If you change teachers too often it will affect your reputation in the music school.


*Although if he is really undisciplined it's a bad sign. Teachers working with beginners must be very disciplined in my opinion.

I guess I jumped to conclusion and kinda acted on a whim because, guess what, I can now play it mostly from memory, albeit on a 60-70 bpm tempo for now; and I practiced about one hour for three days. Also it sounds really nice! Love it. :-)
Another note, I can recognize some patterns in the sheet and that helped me to move faster!

Thanks everyone for your suggestions.

Got back from the class about one hour ago and I must say I am quite disappointed to the point of possibly changing my teacher again.

Upon entering the class he "teaches" me the F scale. Ok, from a distance of 2 to 3 meters away he "teaches" me what I can learn by myself, i.e the fingering for scales. But because of this weird "emotional disconnection" between us, I stumble with the fingering and get disappointed a bit.

So next step is to play that aforementioned piece. OK, I started by explaining to him that I started practicing it on Monday so I effectively practiced for 3 days, almost one hour each. I asked him to be tolerate and not to disrupt my "focus" by pointing out my "obvious" mistakes before I correct them myself and to let me warm up a bit. His answer was like "Ok, let's see what you've got".

I started playing the piece as if I hadn't played in for a day or two, making mistakes too often and certainly more than the home practice, and I had to restart over and over. Upon 3rd time, he told me to stop and said he wasn't satisfied. I explained to him that I did much better at home and I can record the performance "to prove it to him", and he reluctantly agreed but insisted on in-class performance. Then I kinda gladly explained to him that I recognized some patterns on my own and that helped me to memorize the piece. His answer: "I see what you mean, but let's play Aaron's exercises".
Suffice to say, for the rest of the class I went downhill until he expressed his dissatisfaction once more. My time was up, time to leave.

My issues:

1. No tips, no "corrections" about the fingering or whatever whatsoever. In fact, NOTHING was pointed out whatsoever, NADA. All the time he sits 3 meters away because of the goddamn COVID "health concerns".

2. Worse still, last session he "corrected" the fingering for the first 3 bars, because "he felt easier playing such" and left the rest untouched. At home, I practiced according to the original notation and I didn't find it difficult to be honest. In the class, I "followed the book's notation".

3. About the Aaron exercises. "You had the video of me playing" he said along the lines of "so it's inexcusable not to perform correctly." Oh sometimes I wish cameraphones weren't invented. I mean, the teachers are becoming lazier and lazier as the technology progresses. At least, that's my experience with some of them.

4. Related to 3, what the heck am I supposed to learn from your video of performing at high "notated" tempo?

5. He always seems lacking energy and motivation and I, admittedly lacking self-esteem, lay the blame on myself, thinking he doesn't feel like teaching another "beginner".


I just don't like him. I don't think I will. It's not about being childish, it's about the gut feeling I think. I feel emotionally disconnected. His voice and manner and everything isn't inviting. He doesn't seem to like his job, unlike the previous teacher. Maybe I should've stayed with him.

Regardless, I'm gonna think about it more and there's a high chance of me trying a new teacher, again :-/ (Reportedly, there are 20 teachers teaching at this school), or maybe taking a different approach of learning altogether (online, self-study etc).

And I'm gonna practice the piece until it's "perfect".

It's part of my "shy" personality that I have difficulty talking frankly to most people, especially "senior" ones. But I don't think he's the kind of person who accepts criticism to change his method.

Perhaps as earlofmar suggested, I might go for self-study at this stage of learning since I think everything I need to perform a piece is notated clearly on the sheet and the books are also good guides. Then whenever in the future and later stages I feel the need, I might get a teacher.

Mind you, I went through the beginner levels of blues harmonica all by myself using a great online course and I even learnt the bending and some other techniques on my own, before becoming interested in learning the piano. And don't think that it's easier than the piano for a beginner, it doesn't have sheet music like the piano does, however it needs completely different and challenging techniques to master.

I need to ponder it a bit.

Comparing playing piano to playing the harmonica is like comparing riding a bicycle to flying a plane.

There's a lot, lot more to piano playing, which you've hardly scratched the surface so far. As you progress, things will become more and more difficult to master.

BTW, I taught myself the harmonica (and pop guitar) when I was a kid - I could easily play staccato and bend notes on the harmonica within a few weeks. It was two years before I could play a staccato scale on the piano evenly and reliably with all fingers. I still can't bend notes on the piano .

I wont comment on the issues, as there is always a second side on any coin, so maybe some of his comments make sense in a certain perspective. But it is clear that you do not like him and dont feel much value taking the course. So you may as well drop that teacher as it is unlikely you will make much progress given the current relationship.

It is important that you find one that suits your style and personality, someone with whom you will feel comfortable working with. But that said, you also have to trust what he will say, even if you dont necessarily see the obvious reason immediately.

To be blunt, that sounds more like a confidence issue than a shyness issue. Concluding someone is not going to listen without even trying to speak up is just an internal excuse to avoid that perceived confrontation.

With regards to the topic of liking the teacher, I generally feel like in any subject, there should be a sense of mutual respect. You don't have to like a teacher for them to be a good teacher for you but you need to feel some level of respect for their methods and lessons. If you find that you are always second guessing the teacher and can't respect their work, then it may do you good to either change teachers or reflect on whether there's something to change with yourself.

Meghdad:

It's so hard to be sympathetic and make an effort to be helpful when one reads these comments in your posts:

he is as undisciplined as the previous teacher,

I can jump from one teacher to another given there are many (perhaps mediocre ones)

because of the goddamn COVID "health concerns".

I mean, the teachers are becoming lazier and lazier as the technology progresses.

But I don't think he's the kind of person who accepts criticism to change his method.


While there may be truth in what you write, it's hard to get past your attitude towards teaching and teachers without suggesting that perhaps there needs to be some change in your approach to learning.

I hope it eventually works out for you because the journey - and not necessarily the ultimate goals - in learning to play the piano can be one of the most satisfying that some of us take.

Regards,

+1


Also +1

Sorry but at your stage of the game Meghdad you have to just go with the teacher. Plus you do need to change your negative attitude.

Piano for 99% of us is a long journey. Yes there are the 1% that are the exception and you see them on YouTube videos that make it look easy.

Hope you stay with it.

Peace

There seems too much resistance and navel gazing for someone five months into lessons. It is natural to have some doubts about, well, anything. Accept that you know nothing (I do not mean this as insult, as I also know just a little more than nothing) and assume teachers have something to offer. One never progresses as quickly as one would like, especially early on. My teacher studied in a conservatory in Kiev, and from his stories I would like to see the teachers and professors there respond to this attitude. Change teacher or don’t change teachers—I suspect today’s performing masters have more of a beginners mind (less ego, more learning) than you and many of us. Best wishes. Perhaps you might accept things as they are for a while. You aren’t there for an emotional bond necessarily; it is a professional situation. And the pros know more than us, one has to assume. Ask questions and communicate openly.

I'm a bit with OP here
- he is paying for lessons
- teacher is set in his ways so he does not need to learn anything new
- that someone is taking lessons, does not mean that he is good at teaching
- quite a few take lessons of pure financial purposes, to pay rent and food
- teaching is also having pupil getting his moneys worth
- there is always personal chemistry in action as well
- skilled teacher can see how to reach and inspire pupil as well and suggest intermediate pieces/excersises
- does the chosen piece inspire to learn it
- there are loads of pieces that does not check any boxes

My image of a good teacher is
- checking out what pupil can play of course
- what is pupil targeting as musical preference
- give options of pieces that inspire enough by playing videos/audio as performed
- that pupil feel the urge to learn a certain piece is essential to walk the distance it takes

Just recently reading here on PW I bought Faber Adult Piano Adventures 1 and 2.
And there is such a different approach to his teaching and I love it.

Immediately start giving ideas to extend what is written, playing things i different octaves and whatnot.
I was sucked in and just doing this is fun and very good experience.
A lot of excersises that aim to reach keys in other octaves into your backbone - without looking even.

And this can be done beside taking lessons as well doing completely different stuff.
Anything that makes you spend time on the piano is working for you.

I don't know why. I burst out laughing when I read this one.

So, is it because he's so far away that he can't see your fingers to make corrections? You teacher would have to be blind. I can see the piano clearly 3 meters away.

You might want to work on 4 measures of music at a time. And if you still stumble frequently, work on 2 measures at a time. If you are the type that messes up frequently, then the longer you play the MORE mistakes you will make. There is a lot you can work on. I've taught this sonatina to the most brilliant 5-year-old boy and the most below-average teenager. It's a nice piece and you can learn a lot from it. Be patient and work on shorter segments. One idea at a time.

Well one thing is for certain, I DO have knee jerk reactions too often and I'm aware of that.

However I stress that I can play the piece perfectly well at a slow pace (note and rhythm wise, not dynamics necessarily). I "recognized" the musical patterns and didn't memorize note by note.

Thing is, for some weird reason, I get pumped up in front of him and just can't seem to perform slowly or in rhythm and that messes things up.

I mean, shouldn't he force me to play at slow "comfortable" tempo? Shouldn't he at least play a metronome so I can focus better? Granted, I'm able to count the rhythm when I'm "concentrated" and alone, but I have mental anxiety issues and it gets worse in front of such teacher.

Do you think I need to ask him for such perhaps obvious things? Am I expecting too much? Is is that since I am an adult beginner, I should be able to correct my performance-related "mental" weak points arising from my developed personality that a kid being a kid isn't subject to? In other words, is it that the teacher will "break less sweat" teaching an adult like me versus a kid? Is that to be expected and should be taken for granted? What am I missing here?

And how did you get the idea that it's my ego that's to blame? If anything, I suffer from a very low self-esteem. I take goddamn medications for my anxiety issues. :-/

I'm just not your typical normal person. I have a fast paced mental rhythm, while speaking and doing things, and it gets worse with this teacher. Again, I find that when I practice at a very slow pace, I can play alot better. It seems kinda like the slow pace "counters" and "balances" my natural fast and anxious pace.

It's not a good sign that of all the points I mentioned, you singled out this one.

Admittedly that point arose from an overreaction in a heightened emotional state that I had when I wrote it. It wasn't necessary.

However, I'd rather he doesn't "correct" my fingering at this early stage because it's too obvious for me when I make a mistake in this regard. I can recognize my fingering mistakes both tonally by hitting wrong notes, and physically by "awkward feel" in my finger movements. I do believe it's important to point out fingering mistakes when they are "due".

Rather than that point, you could have noticed my other complaints, such as the one about him "correcting" the formal fingering notation for the first 4 bars and leaving the rest untouched because I am an "adult" beginner and can figure it out on my own right? Needless to repeat that I have followed the notated fingering and I'm comfortable with it as opposed to the teacher.

I hope you all see my real point here. I can play the piece, it's not about that. It's not about laziness or excuses or nonsense like that.

That said, I'm still gonna give him a chance or two AND I am determined to communicate my concerns to him the next session. I swear I will.

I understand and there are other people that have issues playing well in front of their teacher (or even in front of anybody else !). I think that seems to be the main issue that is causing the subsequent consequences including your reactions toward your teacher. As I said, there is a lot of psychology going on when teaching certain adults, and some teachers are not willing, not interested or not skilled to understand the blocking points and adjust their behavior.

So my sense is that you have a couple of options; either you open up frankly the subject with him and discuss the issue plainly and ask for his advice as to how overcome the issue (since if that continues that way, you will not learn a lot from these teaching sessions - there is no point continuing to suffer every week with no results); maybe for a time recording yourself or whatever. In any case you have to find a way to create a comfortable working session with your teacher and not going there with anxiety and fear. If that does not work (your teacher is not willing to accomodate his standard method) or you dont feel like having this open discussion, then you have to look for another solution. Solving relationship problems can only come from open communication, keeping the problem for yourself wont help ….

You can also look for a teacher that is less abrupt (ie more comfy ….) or you can try online sessions. Sometimes the distance changes things and you may feel more secure that way. if you record your playing and submit it, that can be an interim solution until you feel your playing is good enough to play in front of other people. You can also go self-teaching, or some sort of mix in between, even though full self-teaching works well only for a very particular category of people.

What is certain is that piano is a hobby, thus it has to be enjoyable for you. There is no point doing something that is an additional pain. Whether it is your behavior of your teacher (or likely the combination of both) that is causing the issue does not matter. My attitude, very personal, is that I never cared too much about pleasing my teachers, except the rare case when it became a personal friendship. If I feel dont get what I need, whether it is because of me or the teacher does not matter, I would look for other options; as an adult I certainly never expected anybody to judge me, be "satisfied" or "dissatisfied " with my progress, I dont need any external approval and I dont need encouragement or motivational small talk. Of course other people will have a different attitude and expectations, we are all unique !

Regarding the tempo, of course playing at slow tempo is easier. But eventually playing music is about playing it at the right tempo, slow or fast. You should be palying at a tempo that allows you to make a minimal amount of errors, but eventually the goal is to reach the proper tempo (or close enough) for each piece. you cant be playing a presto at a largo pace !

Thank you for your balanced and mature advice.

@Nip: Yeah, I might buy some complementing material. I was learning acoustic guitar a few years ago, and after changing a few teachers, I ended up getting the Gibson's Learn and Master Guitar package and the difference was like night and day compared with the teachers that I had experienced. I found myself progressing faster with a committed schedule, however it's gathering dust now in a corner.

While we're talking about this piece, may I ask a question about it?

Since I started practicing it, I had always sort of "hinderance" when I reached half way through the fifth measure since I had to make my both hands close to each in order to play those notes. Now, in my latest round of practice (which I have upped the tempo to 90 bpm), I found that if I move my elbows closer to my body so my forearms get closer as well, then I could play that part a bit easier and more legato.

Is that some kind of "technique" that I should remember for such cases? If so, am I right to think that the teacher is supposed to point it out, or is it something that should come "naturally"?

I am curious. What do you mean by this:

If you are the type that messes up frequently, then the longer you play the MORE mistakes you will make.

I believe he was referring to the number of notes one should play according his rate of mistake, here the example was measures.

However, I also read it as "if you find yourself making too many mistakes, then take a break and return back to it later."

One "gift" I resolved to give to my teacher was to never say, "I played that better at home." Did I, in fact, play that better at home? Sure. But I'm not at home. I'm at my lesson.

Playing in front of someone or even recording (see "Red Dot Syndrome") puts stress on our playing and suddenly all the weak spots come to the forefront. This happens to me all the time and it is sooo frustrating. But I learn from it. I know the piece isn't as secure as the ability to play it well a time or two at home led me to believe. It needs more work.

One reason playing in front of the teacher is stressful is that we feel we need to perform the piece, rather than play it and receive instruction on how to make it better. To counteract the feeling of performing, I often say to the teacher that I'm going to play the first phrase (or some small section) and then I'd like for us to work on that. That helps me get out of the perform mindset and gets me immediate feedback on what I've just played. I don't care if we spend half of the lesson on that one phrase and don't get through the entire piece. That in-depth instruction is what is valuable to me. Try this with your teacher. If the teacher is unwilling to do it, then consider finding another teacher. Don't limit yourself to the pool of teachers in the music school.

Yes, I agree it's a good approach and I've read about it before while searching about the performance stress. However, at this stage of learning and with a simple piece, I'm doubtful he will agree and to be honest I don't think it's reasonable to expect it.

In general though, I'd ask him to be more flexible and it's important for me to verify that before setting him as my favorite teacher.

This response shows some inflexibility on YOUR part: you seem unwilling to try a different apogoach to your lessons, you have pre-judged your teacher will not approve and you’re ok with that.

No matter how simple a piece is, problems are problems and there is no reason not to address them separately. ... and to try another approach yo lessons. I have been using exactly this approach to my lessons for quite a while and find it to be successful. You should try it before you dismiss it.

You are right about that point. I should make that suggestion to him. But don't call that inflexibility, because everybody gathers information from their surrounding and people before giving opinions. I'd call it speculation.

I can remember one instance where I asked him to use a metronome for a little exercise from the Aaron's book but he didn't approve of it and recommended me to count the rhythm. Not sure why.

By the way, I'm not dismissive of all teachers. I started learning the piano 10 years ago but it didn't last long, just a few exercises from the Beyer's book. That was my very first experience with a music teacher and now after 10 years I miss him because he left this school years ago. I know that because I asked the school's manager about him. I really liked him. He taught me little things that I won't forget. For example, to view the notes on the sheet like a graphical curve, to use visualization, to not start over after hitting a wrong note. And he always used a metronome for the simplest pieces.

He really enjoyed his job. I could feel it. He was not a typical teacher, the school's manager confirmed it by saying "he was kind of strange". Yes strage, in a good way.
I remember when I described my anxiety and mental issues to him, he replied along the lines of "many pianists and player had physical and mental issues."

Now 10 years later, I came to realize what he was talking about (I have read bits of some of the romantic pianists' biographies).

It's pretty obvious why, because it is the best way.

Why are you telling your teacher how he should teach, when he obviously knows a lot more than you?

I never use a metronome with my students, and none of my teachers used a metronome with me when I was a student. I learnt to play (and sing) in time by counting beats aloud, right from the first lesson, and that's also the way I teach (and the way used in the method book I use). Once learnt, never forgotten. And every student should be counting beats aloud from Day 1. Without a beat, there is no music. If you can't play in time without a metronome, there is something seriously wrong with the way you have been taught, or are self-teaching.

Have you not noticed how a group of performers - a band, an orchestra, a choir etc - are 'counted in' (3,2,1...) by their conductor when rehearsing, so that they all start together and play at the same tempo that was set. When performing, they will follow the beat. Do they ever use a metronome?

No, you're just dismissive of any teacher who doesn't teach the way you expect them to, even though they are the ones with the skills & knowledge.

Seriously, I think you should go the self-teaching route.

Then, you have no-one to blame for your failings, but yourself..........

About the metronome, I was talking about it in the context of a beginner as I am, not an advanced beginner or an intermediate or a concert pianist gee. It helps me to get a sense of time,to get used to it perhaps, otherwise I might lose the tempo (bpm) in some measures. Though I've tried keeping track of the tempo by using my foot, it still can get out of hand.

About the rest of your post, no comment.

This in my personal experience is pretty common when you're nervous or anxious. It's not getting "pumped up"


Well, I've never taught piano, but logically, I wouldn't add additional restrictions and pressure to try to solve a problem that's brought about by anxiety. Forcing someone to do something more strict isn't the exactly best way to help them relax.


As someone that had suffered from low self-esteem as a child and someone that can likely get anxiety medication if I were to speak to a doctor, I would say your posts here all kind of fits.

I generally separate the idea of ego and self-esteem. If anything, it's the opposite. People that come across as egotistical generally have lower self-esteem because they feel the need to prove themselves and second guess others. On the other hand, people that are truly confident are comfortable with their own self image and comfortable with trusting that others know more.

Teaching is not a hard science. There's different schools and thought to go about the curriculum. Stop comparing different individual ideas and dwelling on the details so much. Just look at the bigger picture. Are you making meaningful progress? Do you trust that you will make better progress with this teacher than learning by yourself? If the answer to that is yes, then put some more trust in the teacher and stop second guessing everything.

And I was talking about the metronome in the context of a beginner like you.

Didn't I say what happens on day 1 of lesson 1? Learn to count regular beats aloud.

That's because you never learnt to internalize the sense of a regular beat by counting aloud with every piece you learn, until you become so familiar with the 'regular beat' that you don't need to count aloud anymore.

Relying on an external source of regular beat to keep in time means that you never develop it yourself.

Watch this famous song, which is all about a rock-steady regular beat:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tJYN-eG1zk

When they perform in front of thousands (of non-musicians), they expect everyone to clap in time........with no metronome to help.

When you work on a piece during the lesson, you really should not play from beginning to end. That's a waste of lesson time.

A more meaningful use of lesson time is to focus on one or two passages. And work on the details.

I stole this idea from a choir director. She teaches 8 bars per song, per class. Her ideas are actually quite influential. I observed another choir director who did the same thing. I tried that with my choirs, but the kids are too immature to work on 8 measures at a time--they just want to sing through the whole song. So I had to find another strategy with them.

With the OP, who hopefully is a mature adult, the strategy of working on 4 measures at a time should work.

I too like the smaller chunk approach. 4 measure segment is the right amount for my beginner kid and my intermediate kid would me on 2-4 measures at a time.

In order to develop good rhythm in piano playing, one needs to develop an internal sense. Counting aloud helps. Tapping with a free hand or a foot works also. A metronome to me is for pacing, and that too is just a gauge be used quite temporarily.

At that place, your hands get closer to each other, so it is natural that your forearms and thus elbows come closer to the body. You should let your arms move naturally and freely as needs be to create a minimal amount of tension. Any teacher must correct you if your position gets flat out incorrect. Proper hand, arm and body position is part of learning to play. But some are more strict than others on that topic. There is some latitude as to what is really incorrect vs a personal adjustment due to your specific body configuration. If you look at some top pianists, like Gould, he has a pretty unconventional seating position, which obviously does not prevent him from being a top pianist. Obviously there are recommended positions, but everybody is physically different, so you will see that pianists seat closer or further from the piano, higher or lower, depending on their size, arm lenght and thus would have different proximity of elbows to their body for the same piece of music. You should not be too much concerned by that, as long as you seat at a comfortable distance and height, the rest is just a matter of finding a relaxed natural, tension free (as much as is possible) position. But typically that is something you can and should discuss with your teacher.

With this specific piece, the teacher partitioned it into A-B-A and Coda parts and asked me to memorize each part. And to be fair it worked pretty well after I got to truly work on it and I'm grateful of him for that.

What I'm saying is that I think it's easier for me at least, to memorize and learn phrase by phrase if they are not too long (relative to me) or else as you said partition each phrase into 4 measures or so.


Tell you what, when I count it becomes harder for me to keep track of the "rhythm" because it adds to the amount of things I need to do at once. Also at this stage, I can easily "hear" the rhythm in my head without a metronome or counting aloud.

As I said earlier, it's the BPM, the tempo, the pacing that I might mess up by speeding up and down depending on the tempo. I do however, tap with my left foot if it helps.

@Sidokar:
Thank you again. I'll keep that in mind during my next practice session.

Just for you to compare, I started piano as an adult, and my teacher did not do my fingering either. The fingering is marked on the sheet music. If I have trouble then she might suggestion an alternate fingering. I also tense up and mess up when playing for the teacher. That's fairly common. An experienced teacher can somehow tell the difference between nerves/accident and things that need to be addressed. And they can tell if you've practiced :-) My teacher didn't have me play with metronome. My first year I was practicing 5-6 hours a day (with many breaks in between), everyday. But I'm much older than you so I have the time.

I think at 5 months, when pieces are not too hard, you might want to check that you are able to play with your eyes on the sheet music. You can glance at your hands once in a while, but you play what you see on the page. Maybe you already do that, just double check. I had a duet partner who got very far just memorizing the positions on the keyboard and later it was hard for her to read music well.

It is frustrating for teachers when students don't follow instructions.

Long time ago I had a teacher that changed the fingering after a couple of lessons too. I was hey I'm playing the right notes but the teacher had a reason. In the next piece he assigned I had to do thumb under twice going up and then three times going back down. So he actually had a reason to do what he was doing. Sometimes teachers do this and you just have to follow there lead. Sure you can ask questions but since you are really a beginner try to do what the teacher asks and don't try to take it so personally IMO. I wish I could remember the pieces but that was decades ago. They were probably some Sonatinas at the intermediate level. I don't play much classical music now.

peace

Hi Meghdad,

Interesting post, as I experienced something quite similar with my teacher, but had an open conversation about it.

Similarly to you, I started this summer, with first a simple and old keyboard, and an app. As my daughter (8 years old) wanted to start too, we got a Kawai CN29 mid august and hired the same teacher mid September. Similar to you, I had 5 30 minutes classes (one per week).

The classes were a bit strange at first. After seeing where I was in music theory (I studies trumpet when I was a child and guitar when I was 20), the teacher (masked and far away, covid style) showed me an exercise to strengthen my small fingers, I discovered 4 weeks later that it's actually Hannon n°1. At the second class he gave me a set of Arpeggio variations on C, F, D, G. 3rd class, he told me I was too careful about not making mistakes and I received Pink Panther to play... I got quite confused with this piece, felt it was way over my skills, had not had any "position" technique beforehand. I also did not understand why we were not working on small and gradual improvement with simple things like he was giving my daughter.

So on class 5, I told him I felt lost about where we were, what were his expectations about my learning and where we were going...

His answer was actually quite simple:

1. As an adult learner, who has learned music before and did play by myself, he has absolutely no idea about where I am and what are my ambitions. It's actually easy for a teacher to take a child that knows nothing and teach him linearly.

2. He has seen many adults pass, and he notices they do not stay that long. So his purpose is to give elements for me to enjoy or train if I have a couple of minutes (ie, the arpeggios and Hannon 1), and to leave we with something that can serve, even if I do only 2 years of piano. And some pieces that I can go as deeply as I want...

3. He told me that the fastest learners amongst his students are the ones that go out and try something they saw in a book or internet. As a teacher to an adult, he does not expect me to take what he gives, only what he gives and to improve linearly.

4. He told me some pieces we would perfect till the end, others we would not and take what we had learned from there.

5. (And here it may differ from your teacher) He told me that even if I was making a ton of errors on Pink Panther, he could see where I was improving... And gave the Baby Elephant Walk (from Hatari), which I have deciphering over the last few days.

I think it's actually very difficult for a teacher to help adults over 30 minutes a week. And a relationship needs to unfold over time... It's even more difficult if we need to wear masks and cannot sit side by side at the piano.

So maybe you can ask him where he stands, and tell him more about you... Start weaving a relationship that will help you learn. Or find another teacher, or learn alone. And enjoy it!

Xlider
You comment that teachers would have a problem teaching adults 30 min per week is not widely held here—- teachers generally want more than 30 min for an adult.

Are you happy with his assertion that adults generally stay only two years? That may be true, but I want a teacher to assume I am in it for the long haul and not skip the skills they would teach a younger student. Each of us is different so think about what you want.

I would tend to agree that more than 30 minutes might be nicer. Here it is as part of a music school program, where all teachers are giving 30 mins a week. Commitment is for 1 year. I intend to try for a year and see after...


I don't know yet what to take out of what he said. I think the teacher had a lot of people stopping because of covid-related moves (we live close by a university city, where students did not all come back in September. I actually like his approach, which is to say that he wants to bring learning and usefulness either if I am in for the long haul or for the short haul... Will see how it unfolds over the next few months.

Just for future reader references having same issue, I finally bitten the bullet and decided to change not just the teacher, but the whole school.

I managed to deliver regarding the previously mentioned piece, one week after posting this thread and he was satisfied however I was not. Which led me to start talking to him seriously for the first time, to find answers to some of the questions mentioned in this thread.

His overall viewpoint can be summarized as "You can learn the piano on your own and you won't need a teacher especially during the early to intermediate stage of learning. However motivation and discipline are the two main reasons for taking a piano class."

Feeling unsure of his point of view, I arranged a meeting with a music school that I knew from a friend. Long story short, the experience was very different from the other teachers I had talked in the piano school. It was so different that convinced me to register for a one month course, or possibly two months. He was surprised to hear that I was being taught new pieces using just recorded videos of the teacher and nothing else whatsoever.

I'll share my experience with the new school to have a fair objective view from outside.

@meghdad: Well done!

What struck me as odd in this thread is comments in the line of "stick with the teacher" or be less critical. Taking lessons as an adult can also be a bit of humbling experience learning again and taking honest feedback from the teacher.

However my suggestion for all learners ever having doubts: You're doing this for your personal enjoyment. The goal is not Liszt, the goal is to have fun learning piano. If your teacher fails to contribute to that goal, taking away your enjoyment, that teacher is not a good match for you.

(If your true goal is Liszt, military style piano bootcamp with mandatory 10h daily practice routines, including arpeggios till exhaustion and a seasoned piano drill instructor might be best to achieve that goal)

@meghdad, all the best and good luck with the new teacher :-)

@meghdad, I will give you thumbs-up for getting what you want in a teacher. Most beginners don't have an idea what they need/want. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Peace

Hi, good move and let us know how it works out for you. Good luck to you.

You pay for the teacher so you should be able to make suggestions from day 1 what you hope to achieve and where you should start. The teacher should continue with the beginner pieces until you are at a comfortable level. It's OK for a teacher to introduce a challenging piece as long as he/she has no expectation you will be able to play it in 2 weeks... more like 6 months later and continue with the pieces you're working on.

My teacher recently assigned the arrangement of a piece by Rimsky-Korsakov. We started off below tempo to get all the notes. There is no expectation for any of her students to play the whole piece in 2 lessons. Slow practice is something many of us would do. Many teachers favor slow practice but not all.

There are certain things you need to learn first including the correct notes, articulation (legato / staccato), dynamics & foot pedaling. These are the things that if you practice wrong, it'd be time consuming to correct later. The last piece I worked on I started at about 80bpm and after 2 weeks of practice got it up to 110. In the beginning my focus was getting all the notes than speed.

Hi glad you have found a new teacher

I am with Nip and would also recomend the Adult Piana Adventures books . You could use them as additional practice to your other lessons.

These are not like most method books . Randall Faber very early on teaches you about moving around the whole of the piano, transposition and improvisation skills in a straightfoward and easy to understand way of learning . The books are accompanied by very informative videos . These videos are available free on YouTube and I would certainly reecomend you check out the introduction video to see if it would suit just search Adult Piano Adventures to find them).

I was like you struggling with teachers who did not understand my needs. I had two teachers both very good in their own way but not suited to my learning. the first I found jumped in a too high a level for me and I constantly stuggled even when questioing and discussiong my progress could not bring it back to a level where i was not struggling. I was left feeling was it me that could not learn piano and getting very frustrated with myself as could not pick up what was being taugt . I know I am capable of learning and finally after 2 years of lessons gave up and went to another teacher. I now know the reasons I was not getting on well was it was at too higher level . The second teacher was not used to adults and treated me like a kid telling me off like a school teacher when i did not grasp what she was teaching me. I am more than happy for constructive critisimn as this is how you improve but not to be told of like I was a child. So gave up this teacher and then decided to go at my own pace of learning by self-teaching myself using the Adult Piano Adventure books. This way has also enabled me to go back to basics and pick up on all that i had missed in my learning. One year on I have completed book one and are on book 2. I feel I have got further with my playing in this one year than I had got from three years with teachers.

So if you find this new teacher does not work out, then consider self learning or as said, consider self learing with Faber along side you teacher. the ealy sages of the book may sem like its things you know but even in the early stages the techniques of transposition and improvisation will set the groundwork for being able to play all sorts of music in the future.

If that quotation is correct, that's a serious issue. He is then basically disqualifying himself as teacher. If he were right, everyone would use video instead of a teacher.

Ok, Just to post an update as promised to possibly help other people in my situation decide: I am really satisfied with this new teacher. He takes baby steps, he literally teaches things and dedicates time to teaching the notes and nuances and he has also given me a book on rhythm and the Hanon book exercises plus he has been teaching me the Anna Magdalene's book that includes Bach simple exercises.

All in all, It's a big step up the previous teachers and his approach and particularly his personality does away any hesitation to continue with him. :-)

I am happy it worked out fine for you Meghdad!

@Animisha Thank you

As a matter of fact, I already tend to play like that and after going though a piece at my level (like those from the Anna Magdelene's book) for the second or third time, I have already memorized the hand and finger movements for the most part.
However at this stage, Bach pieces, even the simplified ones, requires a quick glimpse at the sheet at least.