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Posted By: Argerich5405 I am normal, I think - 10/21/10 04:16 PM
So I'm no prodigy or anything and I'm not trying to show off. I started piano from scratch about 1 yr and 3 months ago. Since then, I've been practicing about 4-5 hrs a day seven days a week. Sometimes I play all day on weekends. I'm working on Chopin nocturnes, Mozart sonatas, and Debussy right now. My teacher says I'm doing darn well and that sometimes he forgets I've only been doing piano for a year.

Yesterday during my lesson, he played for me Rachmaninoff's concerto no. 2, second movement....and I was blown away with how BEAUTIFUL it was!! And now I am completely psyched when he says that he thinks I can tackle it! I looked at the score and it didn't seem too bad.

Should I feel overwhelmed? Because I'm not...I'm actually excited! But I feel embarrassed when people ask what I'm working on because I think that people have certain expectations of where I should be and I'm not.

I just feel like I'm not normal... well, maybe just looking for some reassurance that I'm ok!
Posted By: qtpi Re: I am normal, I think - 10/21/10 04:25 PM
YOu sound Ok to me- let's see how things develop from here. I would love to be able to play more than a hour a day- how do you manage it? What hours do you practice? Is there anyone else in your household who is driven crazy by your constant practice at the piano?

Well- I am off to shower after exercise then get my hour in before I go to work my 8-hour shift.- I AM SO GREEN with ENVY. Tell me how you do it!!!
Posted By: david_a Re: I am normal, I think - 10/21/10 04:37 PM
Originally Posted by Argerich5405
So I'm no prodigy or anything and I'm not trying to show off. I started piano from scratch about 1 yr and 3 months ago. Since then, I've been practicing about 4-5 hrs a day seven days a week. Sometimes I play all day on weekends. I'm working on Chopin nocturnes, Mozart sonatas, and Debussy right now. My teacher says I'm doing darn well and that sometimes he forgets I've only been doing piano for a year.

Yesterday during my lesson, he played for me Rachmaninoff's concerto no. 2, second movement....and I was blown away with how BEAUTIFUL it was!! And now I am completely psyched when he says that he thinks I can tackle it! I looked at the score and it didn't seem too bad.

Should I feel overwhelmed? Because I'm not...I'm actually excited! But I feel embarrassed when people ask what I'm working on because I think that people have certain expectations of where I should be and I'm not.

I just feel like I'm not normal... well, maybe just looking for some reassurance that I'm ok!
Of course you're OK! Maybe a bit of a piano geek now, but you're still OK. smile Have a great time with your new Rachmaninoff adventure.
Posted By: Maharishi Re: I am normal, I think - 10/21/10 04:44 PM
Hello Argerich5405

If "normal" exists, I’ve never been it! [Linked Image]



Posted By: TrapperJohn Re: I am normal, I think - 10/21/10 07:41 PM
Originally Posted by Argerich5405
But I feel embarrassed when people ask what I'm working on because I think that people have certain expectations of where I should be and I'm not.


Well, you should be embarrassed - anyone who has been playing for a whole year and a third and is just now getting around to the Rachmaninoff Concerto (a entry-level work easily mastered by even the most mediocre of 3-5 year old students) obviously is not only not a prodigy, but is clearly and totally lacking in any appreciable artistic talent and should hang his/her head in shame.


Posted By: Emphursis1 Re: I am normal, I think - 10/21/10 07:47 PM
I would assume so. I started playing in May (albeit after having some lessons about ten years ago), and I have been told to start with Grade 8 pieces.
Posted By: Opus45 Re: I am normal, I think - 10/21/10 08:09 PM
Big deal. I was playing La Campanella after 11 months.

whome
Posted By: Una Bicicleta Re: I am normal, I think - 10/21/10 09:55 PM
Originally Posted by Opus45
Big deal. I was playing La Campanella after 11 months.

How did you do that???
Please share your training secret here....
Posted By: Argerich5405 Re: I am normal, I think - 10/21/10 10:51 PM
Oh, la campanella seems difficult! I haven't gotten to any Liszt yet but he wrote some hard stuff. Thanks everyone for saying I'm normal smile . I feel better. By the way, having a great teacher is the secret to success. Mine's a fantastic pianist with over a thousand students' worth of experience. Seriously, he keeps photo albums of every single student he's ever had, I've seen them! I'm gushing with praise...but it's because a fantastic teacher is so important. And he inspires me to become a better pianist too.

Well I come home from work around 5-6pm and I start playing until midnight or 1am, with a few breaks in between for dinner and stuff. Nope, no kids to worry about, only me and my music.
Posted By: Andy Platt Re: I am normal, I think - 10/21/10 11:21 PM
Originally Posted by John Frank
Originally Posted by Argerich5405
But I feel embarrassed when people ask what I'm working on because I think that people have certain expectations of where I should be and I'm not.


Well, you should be embarrassed - anyone who has been playing for a whole year and a third and is just now getting around to the Rachmaninoff Concerto (a entry-level work easily mastered by even the most mediocre of 3-5 year old students) obviously is not only not a prodigy, but is clearly and totally lacking in any appreciable artistic talent and should hang his/her head in shame.


Sight reading it I would say.

I don't think if I was able to practice four or five hours a day I'd be able to tackle Rach 2 any time soon ... I'll just plan on listening to it instead.
Posted By: Peyton Re: I am normal, I think - 10/22/10 12:36 AM
The Rach 2 after one year of playing? No... you are not normal. mad
Posted By: Rui725 Re: I am normal, I think - 10/22/10 12:57 AM
I was the same, 4-5 hours a day, all day weekend. Ate, drank, slept piano every hour of the day outside of work. I have 3 months more experience than you. Recently did a free public recital at a university library of 2 Chopin Nocturnes, 2 Waltzes, Debussy's Claire de lune and some shorter, new age pieces.

I've cut down my practice times the last month as burning out is kicking in and decided to take half of my practice time away from classical studies and focus on improvisation/composition study. Now when I get home from work, I actually have time to enjoy a meal and maybe take a nap. It's also great to look at a music score and slowly unravel why it sounds the way it sounds, if you ever get tired of classical study, this could help you away from the piano as well.

Also, recent live streams of Chopin piano competition took a bit of time away from practice as well. But I must say, watching the extremely talented, dedicated young pianist takes my breath away as well as provokes an inner question I pose to myself, "Will I ever be able to play at that level, despite my age, what am I doing right/wrong, what can I do to improve more." This mentality has caused my progress to slow down a bit as I spend too much time questioning myself rather than enjoying the music. So rather than just strictly studying classical, I've decided to place some time on improvisation and composition.

Regarding Rach 2, I personally have not tried it or plan to for the next 5 years at least, but from listening and following the piano score, the second movement (of the 3) seems doable but to tell you the truth, Rach concerto's place a lot of emphasis on dialogues and voicing between orchestra and piano. A lot of its beauty is gone if only the piano part is played. If you do decide to endeavor on this, should get the orchestra accompaniment CD, I think it will help a lot. (Music minus one seems to pop into my head).

Posted By: CebuKid Re: I am normal, I think - 10/22/10 03:26 AM
Originally Posted by Rui725


Also, recent live streams of Chopin piano competition took a bit of time away from practice as well. But I must say, watching the extremely talented, dedicated young pianist takes my breath away as well as provokes an inner question I pose to myself, "Will I ever be able to play at that level, despite my age, what am I doing right/wrong, what can I do to improve more."



I think you will definitely get better and/or as good as or nearly the level of those "talented" young players. The more years, pieces, proper instruction, practice, etc. that you have under your belt, the more your playing matures. I also think that even the pieces in your current repertoire get better as well - again with more experience.. Hang in there and be patient! I've got 5 years more experience than you and you don't hear me complaining. ha

PS-since you're taking a break from classical, you should try ragtime! smile I'm nearly done with my 1st Chopin piece, by the way....I'm putting the finishing touches on it, and will soon have one of my buddies critique it.
Posted By: Argerich5405 Re: I am normal, I think - 10/22/10 03:42 AM
Thanks Rui for sharing your journey! You and I seem so similar, on the same piano journey of composers. I'm reassured that I am normal...because i'm not alone it seems!!

I still play when I'm burned out but I play (sight read) easier pieces. It's less "thinking" involved and doesn't seem to require so much of what little energy I have left during those times. So regardless, I play all the time! I just want to play everything that inspires me to grow as a pianist.

Weird, but I see young pianists perform with great talent and I don't get bummed out..instead, I think "If they can do that, I know I can". I actually see them as very inspiring!

BTW, your analysis of the Rach 2, second movement, is exactly why I chose that particular section. The score didn't seem thaaat bad (relative of course). But I'm so psyched by pieces like that that my energy level has skyrocketed even more (maybe I won't sleep anymore and practice 12 hrs a day laugh cause I'm too excited!).

Thanks for the rec to get a CD recording of the orchestra portion! Do you recommend a place?
Posted By: Rui725 Re: I am normal, I think - 10/22/10 03:47 AM
A few months ago I was full of energy as well. I guess this kind of thing fluctuates for me. Sometimes I have a lot of energy, other times not. I'm currently without a teacher, I think that is why. I need to find one soon....

Also, it's possible also that I'm currently learning new pieces and the beginning is always so slow. It should be better next week hopefully.

Ceb: Thanks for the encouragement. I saw your post about lacking motivation as well but I couldn't think of anything inspiring to say because I felt the same haha.

Argerich5405: Notice I never mentioned about being normal. I don't think it matters, as long as you are enjoying yourself. Though, for the past year and half, I have not done many social activities a normal, healthy, person does. But it's my choice and I don't regret a single minute of it. When you can, attend a lot of piano recitals, big or small. Another activity I found thats beneficial that doesn't involve actual piano practice is visiting art galleries. For some reason I feel a peace at mind while my senses are replenished when I'm surrounded by art oriented environments.
Posted By: mr_super-hunky Re: I am normal, I think - 10/22/10 04:11 AM
I sincerly wish all of you super-achievers the best but I'm SO glad my only "goal" is to just have fun. The last thing I want in my relaxation activity is all kinds of stress and work hanging over my head.

5 hours a day....that's nutz!

Now don't get me wrong, I thoroughly respect hard work and dedication and am a firm believer that you get out of something what you put into it but I also worry about being burnt out once the honeymoon period is over.

Passion is a cool thing however and doesn't come around all that often so if the flame is still lit.....go for it.
Posted By: TrapperJohn Re: I am normal, I think - 10/22/10 11:25 AM
Originally Posted by Argerich5405
I just feel like I'm not normal... well, maybe just looking for some reassurance that I'm ok!


The needle on my BS meter is hovering around the far right end "max point" - your post is just the latest in a long string of similar posts, most of which have quickly proven to be phoney.

If on the small chance that you're actually for real it's hard to tell whether you're bragging or complaining - and it would appear to some cynics that you really were "trying to show off" and that the only thing you're looking for is compliments.

But, why am I smelling the distinct and pungent aroma of a troll?

JF
Posted By: Rui725 Re: I am normal, I think - 10/22/10 11:28 AM
Originally Posted by John Frank
Originally Posted by Argerich5405
I just feel like I'm not normal... well, maybe just looking for some reassurance that I'm ok!


The needle on my BS meter is hovering around the far right end "max point" - your post is just the latest in a long string of similar posts, most of which have quickly proven to be phoney.

If on the small chance that you're actually for real it's hard to tell whether you're bragging or complaining - and it would appear to some cynics that you really were "trying to show off" and that the only thing you're looking for is compliments.

But, why am I smelling the distinct and pungent aroma of a troll?

JF


I doubt she's a troll.
Posted By: Una Bicicleta Re: I am normal, I think - 10/22/10 12:22 PM
Originally Posted by Argerich5405
Since then, I've been practicing about 4-5 hrs a day seven days a week. Sometimes I play all day on weekends. I'm working on Chopin nocturnes, Mozart sonatas, and Debussy right now.

You have the right to be proud. It's very hard to keep focus and practicing 4-5 hours a day. Good job.. and enjoy the music.
Posted By: I'll be Bach Re: I am normal, I think - 10/22/10 12:32 PM
Originally Posted by John Frank
Originally Posted by Argerich5405
I just feel like I'm not normal... well, maybe just looking for some reassurance that I'm ok!


The needle on my BS meter is hovering around the far right end "max point" - your post is just the latest in a long string of similar posts, most of which have quickly proven to be phoney.

If on the small chance that you're actually for real it's hard to tell whether you're bragging or complaining - and it would appear to some cynics that you really were "trying to show off" and that the only thing you're looking for is compliments.

But, why am I smelling the distinct and pungent aroma of a troll?

JF


I would go with the hybrid of...I want to brag but, I will couch it a way that might have some believe me to be really worried about being too good too soon!

Posted By: CebuKid Re: I am normal, I think - 10/22/10 12:56 PM
Originally Posted by John Frank

If on the small chance that you're actually for real it's hard to tell whether you're bragging or complaining - and it would appear to some cynics that you really were "trying to show off" and that the only thing you're looking for is compliments.

But, why am I smelling the distinct and pungent aroma of a troll?

JF


I guess we have to take her word for it. I'm not sure the OP's prior background, but what she's doing might be possible if she had prior musical background (kinda like Rui). If she had zero musical background, then I can see why some are cynical.

The proof is in the pudding, though. Hmmmmm...the next ABF recital is in less than a month. smile
Posted By: Argerich5405 Re: I am normal, I think - 10/22/10 04:03 PM
I'm really not a troll! I thought this was a place to post questions/comments/observations about piano. Should I lie and post only stuff like "I am working on Frere Jacque and can't put two hands together? Or I can only practice 5 min a day?" and get loads of encouragement to continue?

Well, I never said that I was a pro, only that I work slow and steady and I have a great teacher. He helps me with proper fingering, difficult rhythms, and helps me eliminate notes when I can't reach certain chords, etc... and I can honestly say that without his input, I would not be able to play what I am playing right now. Also, there are different levels of performing a piece - I'm no way near where I want to be and have a long way to go. That musicianship aspect of playing piano will take a long time to develop.

I do get burned out just like everyone else, and so what if I seek a few words of encouragement? If I'm excited about a piece I'm learning, I should be able to say which piece without feeling condemned or that I'm bragging. Yes, I know I'm playing advanced pieces which is why I feel a little different from everyone else, but should I never mention it on this website? I am paying a price for advancing quickly on the piano. My job is highly stressful, my love life is nonexistent at the moment, and I find comfort in music so I devote all my time - it's my choice though and I am happy with it. I do have a knack for memorizing pieces and hand movements, so it comes naturally I guess. Bottom line, anyone can play advanced pieces, but to play them truly musically is a journey of a lifetime.
Posted By: Rui725 Re: I am normal, I think - 10/22/10 04:11 PM
Originally Posted by Argerich5405
I'm really not a troll! I thought this was a place to post questions/comments/observations about piano. Should I lie and post only stuff like "I am working on Frere Jacque and can't put two hands together? Or I can only practice 5 min a day?" and get loads of encouragement to continue?

Well, I never said that I was a pro, only that I work slow and steady and I have a great teacher. He helps me with proper fingering, difficult rhythms, and helps me eliminate notes when I can't reach certain chords, etc... and I can honestly say that without his input, I would not be able to play what I am playing right now. Also, there are different levels of performing a piece - I'm no way near where I want to be and have a long way to go. That musicianship aspect of playing piano will take a long time to develop.

I do get burned out just like everyone else, and so what if I seek a few words of encouragement? If I'm excited about a piece I'm learning, I should be able to say which piece without feeling condemned or that I'm bragging. Yes, I know I'm playing advanced pieces which is why I feel a little different from everyone else, but should I never mention it on this website? I am paying a price for advancing quickly on the piano. My job is highly stressful, my love life is nonexistent at the moment, and I find comfort in music so I devote all my time - it's my choice though and I am happy with it. I do have a knack for memorizing pieces and hand movements, so it comes naturally I guess. Bottom line, anyone can play advanced pieces, but to play them truly musically is a journey of a lifetime.


Don't get too caught up on what some people say. This is the internet remember. Keep working hard day after day, just don't forget to have fun during the journey.

Edit: make sure you get outside and there's never a better excuse than attending a live piano performance or anything artsy. Unless there's some kind of recital or performance I want to prep for, I drop a nights worth of a practice nowadays to attend these venues. Always feels great afterwards.
Posted By: apple* Re: I am normal, I think - 10/22/10 04:12 PM
there is a place at piano world for everyone..

try the pianists' corner Argerich5405
Posted By: qtpi Re: I am normal, I think - 10/22/10 04:32 PM
YOur answer about your playing time made me think... After my shift last night, I slept in , had breakfast, now i have a repairman coming, must pay bills, clean and do laundry on my day off- it's autumn and the shrubs need pruning. Oh and then there is grocery shopping. I need to cook and clean up. I try to exercise daily because I want to stay fit and healthy. All this takes time. Piano is so solitary that I enjoy getting on the Pianoworld and connecting. That takes time too.My biggest and brightest dream is to practice more than an hour a day but I guess I have to have a balance- and I do have a family and friends too. And I confess I play flute in a community band but flute practice takes a back seat to piano practice- hope the band director isn't reading this- LOL!
Posted By: CebuKid Re: I am normal, I think - 10/22/10 04:43 PM
Yes, this is the internet after all, so don't get too caught up in the "doubters." I've seen worse posts - more recently, a guy who criticized someone's youtube video w/out the youtuber's knowledge. A few of us challenged him to put his own playing up there, but he refused saying that "that wasn't his style".

Agerich5405, I'd recommend participating in one of our e-citals to silence the cynics and doubters. It doesn't have to be an advanced piece either...just something you're confident that you can play musically. smile
Posted By: I'll be Bach Re: I am normal, I think - 10/22/10 04:57 PM
Originally Posted by Argerich5405
I'm really not a troll! I thought this was a place to post questions/comments/observations about piano. Should I lie and post only stuff like "I am working on Frere Jacque and can't put two hands together? Or I can only practice 5 min a day?" and get loads of encouragement to continue?

Well, I never said that I was a pro, only that I work slow and steady and I have a great teacher. He helps me with proper fingering, difficult rhythms, and helps me eliminate notes when I can't reach certain chords, etc... and I can honestly say that without his input, I would not be able to play what I am playing right now. Also, there are different levels of performing a piece - I'm no way near where I want to be and have a long way to go. That musicianship aspect of playing piano will take a long time to develop.

I do get burned out just like everyone else, and so what if I seek a few words of encouragement? If I'm excited about a piece I'm learning, I should be able to say which piece without feeling condemned or that I'm bragging. Yes, I know I'm playing advanced pieces which is why I feel a little different from everyone else, but should I never mention it on this website? I am paying a price for advancing quickly on the piano. My job is highly stressful, my love life is nonexistent at the moment, and I find comfort in music so I devote all my time - it's my choice though and I am happy with it. I do have a knack for memorizing pieces and hand movements, so it comes naturally I guess. Bottom line, anyone can play advanced pieces, but to play them truly musically is a journey of a lifetime.


My advice then would be to couch your comments differently. Rather than asking if you are normal or not, while knowing full well that with your extra time, good teacher and natural aptitude for the instrument your progression is decidedly accelerated compared to most who have played an instrument for 15 months. It sounded to me that you wanted to brag on yourself and that is fine (we can all be proud of ourselves and our accomplishments)...but you needed to find a way to do it, so you came up with a heavyhanded question about being normal or not when the real purpose was to say what could have simply been...hey this is what I am working on and I know some might think it is too soon for someone who has only been at it a short time, but I practice alot, have the aid of a great teacher and I am finding I just get the hang of the fingerings and memorization. Here is a snippet tell me what you think?
Posted By: Argerich5405 Re: I am normal, I think - 10/22/10 05:59 PM
Well, I'll_be_Bach has completely misunderstood me. If I wanted to brag, I would have said exactly what s/he said. I just wanted to know that there are others like me out there, as passionate as I am. Piano is a solitary hobby and I do feel very different from everyone else. Sometimes I feel that I'm not like everyone, not normal. This is a place where there are people like me, and knowing that they exist makes me feel less abnormal. If my comment asking whether I was normal offended anyone or came of as "bragging", it wasn't meant to be. I know that I am playing advanced pieces, but instead of feeling PROUD, I'm afraid people will call me a freak or a liar, and I was seeking reassurance that I was not the exception.
Posted By: I'll be Bach Re: I am normal, I think - 10/22/10 06:10 PM
I don't think it was a misunderstanding as much as it was...you spent one paragraph saying what you were doing after 15 months (but you aren't a prodigy...oh no). One paragraph talking about a new piece your teacher thought you could tackle (a highly advanced piece at that) that "didn't seem too bad." A third paragraph about how maybe you should be overwhelmed but aren't. And a single final sentence about normalcy.

So it isn't in my opinion a misunderstanding as it was reading exactly what you wrote.

The post struck me as much ado about how humble you are being despite everything you are writing to the contrary.

My suggestion would be that if you are feeling out of sorts compared with those that do no play then say so...but the way you couched your comments there was no way a person could read what you wrote closely and come up with that being the purpose of your post.



Posted By: achat Re: I am normal, I think - 10/22/10 06:53 PM
Argerich,

I am playing piano since less than 2 months (without teacher), and I am learning "Giorni Dispari" of Einaudi.

As you probably know the Normal distribution has a bell shape, so you (and me) like any other we all are under the bell shape. It is all about if you are near the mean, or near 2 or 3 times sigma.

I definetively prefer to be far from the mean, on the right.
Why to worry about? smile

A.



Originally Posted by Argerich5405
Well, I'll_be_Bach has completely misunderstood me. If I wanted to brag, I would have said exactly what s/he said. I just wanted to know that there are others like me out there, as passionate as I am. Piano is a solitary hobby and I do feel very different from everyone else. Sometimes I feel that I'm not like everyone, not normal. This is a place where there are people like me, and knowing that they exist makes me feel less abnormal. If my comment asking whether I was normal offended anyone or came of as "bragging", it wasn't meant to be. I know that I am playing advanced pieces, but instead of feeling PROUD, I'm afraid people will call me a freak or a liar, and I was seeking reassurance that I was not the exception.
Posted By: pianoist d'amore Re: I am normal, I think - 10/22/10 07:12 PM
Many people think sarcasm is humor and appreciated while few realize that it can be a form of verbal abuse. That's why people who have a habit of making sarcastic comments often have a difficult time with relationships, which probably explains why the OP can afford so much time to practice.

One thing I deeply believe is that - you will play better music as you become a better person... Techniques and skills will improve (though at different pace for different people), but they can only carry you thus far. In the end, it's your heart that speaks in your music. Many kids are able to play way better than adults because their hearts are so pure.

Originally Posted by I'll be Bach
I don't think it was a misunderstanding as much as it was...you spent one paragraph saying what you were doing after 15 months (but you aren't a prodigy...oh no). One paragraph talking about a new piece your teacher thought you could tackle (a highly advanced piece at that) that "didn't seem too bad." A third paragraph about how maybe you should be overwhelmed but aren't. And a single final sentence about normalcy.

So it isn't in my opinion a misunderstanding as it was reading exactly what you wrote.

The post struck me as much ado about how humble you are being despite everything you are writing to the contrary.

My suggestion would be that if you are feeling out of sorts compared with those that do no play then say so...but the way you couched your comments there was no way a person could read what you wrote closely and come up with that being the purpose of your post.



Posted By: pianoist d'amore Re: I am normal, I think - 10/22/10 07:18 PM
And I am playing Fantasy Impromptu every night since I started learning piano two months ago!!!!



(in my dream, that is, lolllll)

Originally Posted by Opus45
Big deal. I was playing La Campanella after 11 months.

whome
Posted By: TrapperJohn Re: I am normal, I think - 10/22/10 07:38 PM
Originally Posted by apple*
there is a place at piano world for everyone..

try the pianists' corner Argerich5405


That could be a big mistake - their BS detectors are even more sensitive than mine and as a whole they're even more cynical and far less gullible than the typical ABFer.

JF
Posted By: achat Re: I am normal, I think - 10/22/10 07:57 PM
JF,

as any kind of detector you have a positive chance to be wrong.

Extremes and outliers do exist.

The correct answer to the original post is very simple: "Yes, you are normal, far from the normal mean but still normal"


A.

Originally Posted by John Frank
Originally Posted by apple*
there is a place at piano world for everyone..

try the pianists' corner Argerich5405


That could be a big mistake - their BS detectors are even more sensitive than mine and as a whole they're even more cynical and far less gullible than the typical ABFer.

JF
Posted By: Elssa Re: I am normal, I think - 10/22/10 10:31 PM
Originally Posted by Argerich5405
Yesterday during my lesson, he played for me Rachmaninoff's concerto no. 2, second movement....and I was blown away with how BEAUTIFUL it was!! And now I am completely psyched when he says that he thinks I can tackle it! I looked at the score and it didn't seem too bad.

I say go for it. smile I play that, too.. Well, okay, actually I can only play "Full Moon and Empty Arms". It is a beautiful tune, though. grin
Posted By: hawgdriver Re: I am normal, I think - 10/23/10 07:01 AM
Originally Posted by John Frank
your post is just the latest in a long string of similar posts, most of which have quickly proven to be phoney.


I hope you're not talking about me, Mr. grumpy-pants! No one likes being called a phony, except perhaps a select few who reside in the world of JD Salinger...

To the OP: I suggest you get video and a sworn deposition from your instructor if you hope to be taken seriously here with claims like yours! Personally, I believe someone could accomplish what you say if they have a knack for it and spent that much time at it, that consistently. It's obviously not normal, but I won't call you a freak unless you like that kind of thing. cheers!
Posted By: TrapperJohn Re: I am normal, I think - 10/23/10 11:04 AM
Originally Posted by ashat
JF,
as any kind of detector you have a positive chance to be wrong.
Extremes and outliers do exist.
The correct answer to the original post is very simple: "Yes, you are normal, far from the normal mean but still normal"


You're correct - the "detector" could be wrong - if so, an apology would be in order - but there's two statistical chances of erroneous readings: slim & none smile

And yes, outliers do exist - but then again, so do outliars .

Finally, the correct answer to the OP is (as the case may be):

1. He/she's is, in fact, for real - "you already know you're way above or beyond normal - so why are you asking us, unless you're on a ego-padding, compliment-fishing expedition?"

2. He/she's not for real - "yo, dude (or dudess), f-off and go do your sleazy trolling somewhere else!"


Originally Posted by hawgdriver
Originally Posted by John Frank
your post is just the latest in a long string of similar posts, most of which have quickly proven to be phoney.


I hope you're not talking about me, Mr. grumpy-pants! No one likes being called a phony, except perhaps a select few who reside in the world of JD Salinger...



No, I really wasn't - thoughts or memories of you never entered my mind, I assure you - sorry if you thought that might be the case.

And it's "grumpy gramps" (as my wife sometimes calls me), but thanks for your nice try at a "term of endearment" laugh

JF
Posted By: achat Re: I am normal, I think - 10/23/10 02:17 PM
Originally Posted by John Frank

1. He/she's is, in fact, for real - "you already know you're way above or beyond normal - so why are you asking us, unless you're on a ego-padding, compliment-fishing expedition?"


JF,

you know, we all are human...
Never happened to you to ask to someone else how nice are your new trousers, despite you perfectly know the trousers fit perfectly to you and make you look really nice?

It happens, sometimes.

I think a psycologist would call it a need to be reassured.

A.

Posted By: PianoU1 Re: I am normal, I think - 10/23/10 03:55 PM
it's remarkable to be playing Chopin nocturnes in a year. In my opinion you are not normal, no.
Anyone who can play nocturnes in their first year of piano study is a prodigy. I've been playing for over 5 and nocturnes are still a couple of years away from me unfortunately. I am going to learn chopin's prelude in e minor which should be within my grasp.
i'm hoping you will post in the november piano bar argerich5405, i would love to see you play a chopin nocturne, it would be inspirational to see what gifted adult beginners are capable of.
I am aiming to get sofigiettio done for then. Not in the same league as Rachmaninov but i am painfully normal smile
Posted By: IramChZ Re: I am normal, I think - 10/23/10 04:01 PM
Originally Posted by pianoist d'amore
people who have a habit of making sarcastic comments often have a difficult time with relationships, which probably explains why the OP can afford so much time to practice.

One thing I deeply believe is that - you will play better music as you become a better person...


I thought this was an interesting comment. If being a nasty person gives you more time to practice, I would think better people would be worse musicians.

As far as the title of this thread is concerned, why would anyone want to be normal anyway? I would rather be exceptional than normal. (Unfortunately, I am in fact normal.)
Posted By: qtpi Re: I am normal, I think - 10/23/10 05:22 PM
Maybe I am going off the subject- I love anything about most music- point is I have done some reading on composers and - well, an example is Clara Schumann- not trying to step on anyone's toes- anyway, she was in may ways an emotional train wreck- real good at being in denial when necessary, hysterical crying fits, unfortunately her eight kids all had difficulties with life- she grew up with an overbearing father and remained uneducated except for hours at the piano. Clara did not speak a word until the age of 5. Her mother divorced the father- a huge hardship in that time in GErmany because in a divorce, the father got all the money and the children. Must have been pretty bad for clara's Mom.She had to tiptoe around selfish Robert and not practice so he could compose- Robert was a head-case. Brahms was misogynistic, gruff,sarcastic, often verbally abusive, and uncouth... and I have read and thought about- how much did hours and hours of practice have to do with all this= or is it a chicken or egg thing- did sensitive people naturally get drawn into the serenity and peaceful retreat afforded by music as opposed to dealing with the changing tides of human relationships?

I am not making a judgment. In my own case, music is a retreat - asnd I dissociate into the music- the rest of the world is gone. And as far as the bell curve, I am a bit to the right, and am talented at music, and would really love a 50-hour day so I could spend hours at the piano, composing, and playing my other instruments.

I am sensitive- and have had to work harder at people skills than piano skills. I guess this really is off the topic- but you may be familiar with some of the ideas about creativity correlating with depression or other emotional difficulties.
Posted By: Rui725 Re: I am normal, I think - 10/23/10 06:24 PM
No one is normal. Not the person that brings you your mail, nor the person that takes your morning Starbucks coffee order. For those here, and those that read this. Music brings us joy. Love it and embrace it, recreate it as if the composer himself instructed you. What the heck is time anytime anyway. There is no duration in beautiful music.
Posted By: hawgdriver Re: I am normal, I think - 10/24/10 04:57 AM
Originally Posted by John Frank
And it's "grumpy gramps" (as my wife sometimes calls me), but thanks for your nice try at a "term of endearment" laugh

JF


A McMurtry fan, too? You might be OK after all.
Posted By: hawgdriver Re: I am normal, I think - 10/24/10 05:01 AM
Originally Posted by qtpi
Maybe I am going off the subject-

I really enjoyed this post.

I'd be curious to know if obsessive pianists share personality traits. I'm curious what the typical "Meyers-Briggs" personality type would be of the 'gifted and obsessive' pianist.
Posted By: TrapperJohn Re: I am normal, I think - 10/24/10 10:12 AM
Originally Posted by Rui725
No one is normal...


I take it you're including yourself? If so, why should we consider the opinion of someone who's not normal? laugh

But, you'd almost have to think that someone somewhere is normal - just by the "law of averages"...otherwise, the abnormal would be the normal...

Originally Posted by hawgdriver
...You might be OK after all.


Please don't go spreading any vicious and slanderous rumors... smile

JF
Posted By: apple* Re: I am normal, I think - 10/24/10 12:20 PM
i've met and worked with many musicians..

i think personality traits may be amplified. the drama, the emotions.. the response to 'life' seems magnified.
Posted By: Rui725 Re: I am normal, I think - 10/24/10 01:34 PM
Originally Posted by John Frank
Originally Posted by Rui725
No one is normal...


I take it you're including yourself? If so, why should we consider the opinion of someone who's not normal? laugh

But, you'd almost have to think that someone somewhere is normal - just by the "law of averages"...otherwise, the abnormal would be the normal...

Originally Posted by hawgdriver
...You might be OK after all.


Please don't go spreading any vicious and slanderous rumors... smile

JF


My point was to stress that there really is no need to worry on one's progress, just enjoy the music. You should of responded to the entire the post as opposed to taking the first 3 words.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: I am normal, I think - 10/24/10 02:00 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHA
Posted By: qtpi Re: I am normal, I think - 10/24/10 02:59 PM
I am definitely on the Obsessive-Compulsive Scale- it is genetic- several members of my family also have OCD. If you can channel it, it's like riding a dragon- you can accomplish a lot.

Posted By: Rui725 Re: I am normal, I think - 10/24/10 03:19 PM
I really like the riding a dragon analogy! or maybe, more like training a dragon?
Posted By: Don Pittman Re: I am normal, I think - 10/24/10 03:40 PM
Your doing great but normal hmmmmmm have to think about that one, if your normal then I am in a heap of trouble . just kidding your just talented.
Good Luck

Posted By: Victor25 Re: I am normal, I think - 10/24/10 03:42 PM
This all sounds more like 'puffing' the magic dragon!
Posted By: qtpi Re: I am normal, I think - 10/24/10 03:49 PM
It's hard to train. You ride it. If I sit down at this piano bench, I better be prepared to zone out for an hour- I have 3 cloicks in the room and a 3-minute hourglass- if I get stuck on two measures, I only allow myself to practice til the sand runs out- try it- in three minutes, you can practice two measures over a hundred times- in one week it's like a thousand times-
Posted By: qtpi Re: I am normal, I think - 10/24/10 03:51 PM
LOL!Hi Victor- I hear a lot of puffing goes on in the Netherlands!
Posted By: hawgdriver Re: I am normal, I think - 10/24/10 03:52 PM
Originally Posted by qtpi
I am definitely on the Obsessive-Compulsive Scale- it is genetic- several members of my family also have OCD. If you can channel it, it's like riding a dragon- you can accomplish a lot.


Or you could be OCD like my dad, and chase dragons instead.
Posted By: wouter79 Re: I am normal, I think - 10/24/10 04:36 PM
Ah the famous Argerich... always shy of publicity
(just poking fun ;-) )
Posted By: jazzyprof Re: I am normal, I think - 10/24/10 04:57 PM
Originally Posted by Argerich5405
I looked at the score and it didn't seem too bad.

Here are the first four measures. This should not be too much of a challenge. The only difficulty might be the proper fingering. My recommendation for these four measures is to practice breathing slowly with your hands on your lap. Use arm weight. Avoid the temptation to rush. Count silently 1-2-3-4. It helps if you keep your eyes closed.
[Linked Image]
Posted By: qtpi Re: I am normal, I think - 10/24/10 05:46 PM
Sort of looks like a Cage composition.
Posted By: CebuKid Re: I am normal, I think - 10/24/10 09:29 PM
Originally Posted by jazzyprof
Originally Posted by Argerich5405
I looked at the score and it didn't seem too bad.

Here are the first four measures. This should not be too much of a challenge. The only difficulty might be the proper fingering. My recommendation for these four measures is to practice breathing slowly with your hands on your lap. Use arm weight. Avoid the temptation to rush. Count silently 1-2-3-4. It helps if you keep your eyes closed.
[Linked Image]


I disagree with the tempo indication. I play those measures at 63BPM. Sounds much nicer and fits the mood of the piece. smokin
Posted By: chihuahua Re: I am normal, I think - 10/25/10 01:07 AM
Originally Posted by Argerich5405
So I'm no prodigy or anything and I'm not trying to show off. I started piano from scratch about 1 yr and 3 months ago. Since then, I've been practicing about 4-5 hrs a day seven days a week. Sometimes I play all day on weekends. I'm working on Chopin nocturnes, Mozart sonatas, and Debussy right now. My teacher says I'm doing darn well and that sometimes he forgets I've only been doing piano for a year.

Yesterday during my lesson, he played for me Rachmaninoff's concerto no. 2, second movement....and I was blown away with how BEAUTIFUL it was!! And now I am completely psyched when he says that he thinks I can tackle it! I looked at the score and it didn't seem too bad.

Should I feel overwhelmed? Because I'm not...I'm actually excited! But I feel embarrassed when people ask what I'm working on because I think that people have certain expectations of where I should be and I'm not.

I just feel like I'm not normal... well, maybe just looking for some reassurance that I'm ok!


4-5 hours a day is quite the average; I play 12 hours a day since I started learning piano for the last 1 year. I cut my sleep to 1 hour, survived on amphetamines and caffeine, quit my fulltime job as an astronaut and joined the grocery store as a part-timer. That worked well. What do you think of my commitment?

My teacher played the Rach3 for me yesterday (what a coincidence!) and I was blown away by its beauty. Great thing was … he said it was time for me to perform it in Carnitine hall in Timbuktu. Should I be embarrassed or inspired?

What should I do? Should I be puffed up just because I could play the Rach3 with 1 year of piano behind me? Or should I be embarrassed because that Asian kid next door is playing Trois mouvements de Petrouchka with just one month of lesson?

Please advise. Thanks wink
Posted By: apple* Re: I am normal, I think - 10/25/10 01:13 AM
oh my gosh.. that was such a clever post chihuahua..

so nice too! thumb
Posted By: CWPiano Re: I am normal, I think - 10/25/10 02:17 AM
I will try to put this into a perspective of a late starter. I started piano late like the TS at the age of 17 years old and picked up the instrument rather quickly. I practiced laborously about 3-5 hours a day to the point I was neglecting my full time study in multimedia. In fact I managed to pass ABRSM grade 7 piano when I was 19. By that time I was feeling very confident that I started to learn difficult masterpieces such as Chopin's 3rd Ballade, Faure's 4th Nocturne, Ginastera's Danza Argentinas, and Debussy's Estampes. At this point I decided to pursue music full time. A couple years later ( I had to work first to get some capital ), I auditioned into a local arts college and was accepted, although just barely.

That was where the rude shock began. I then realised that my understanding of the pieces I had played were shallow and my technique had serious deficiencies. My standard was far from those who had proper grounding and excellent teachers before they entered. I faced many detractors and many teachers told directly to my face I would not even survive the 2nd year. My music study felt very tough but ultimately rewarding and I persevered to graduate it, gaining a newfound love and respect for the music I play irresspective of their difficulties.

The point is this. Did I feel I could conquer the world when I started learning piano and tackled all these big pieces? Yes, I did. On hindsight it was not wise to think so, but I think discounting a person's passions for music just because he/she is not aware of the full difficulties of learning piano is very smug and reeks of elitism. Let him/her discover for himself and hopefully he/she will desire to make better music.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: I am normal, I think - 10/25/10 05:15 AM
Originally Posted by qtpi
LOL!Hi Victor- I hear a lot of puffing goes on in the Netherlands!


Fun side fact, per person, more weed is smoked in the US than in The Netherlands. But that aside smile

Even to think of playing a Rach concert after playing a year is RIDONKULOUS. Even if theoretically you are that good (and put yourself ahead of people like probably even Liszt, Horowitz etc.), and you are the best pianist the world has EVER heard, than you would not even come close to having the musical baggage that one should have before playing a piece like this. I would even say the same if you were thinking about a Beethoven or Schubert sonata. You sir, should try playing some more bagatelle's, prelude's, nocturne's, mazurka's, etude's etc. and it would be great if you could post a video, because you got me really interested in your playing.
Posted By: Una Bicicleta Re: I am normal, I think - 10/25/10 06:11 AM
Originally Posted by chihuahua
What should I do? Should I be puffed up just because I could play the Rach3 with 1 year of piano behind me? Or should I be embarrassed because that Asian kid next door is playing Trois mouvements de Petrouchka with just one month of lesson?

If you learn to play piano to compete with your neighbors, then yes, you should be embarrassed.
If you learn to play piano because it makes you happy, then you should beg to that Asian kid to teach you how to play laugh
Posted By: TrapperJohn Re: I am normal, I think - 10/25/10 10:37 AM
Originally Posted by apple*
i've met and worked with many musicians..

i think personality traits may be amplified. the drama, the emotions.. the response to 'life' seems magnified.


Which is just a kind way of saying that most of them are self-absorbed, egotistical, narcissistic, cut-throat prima-donnas? laugh

JF
Posted By: apple* Re: I am normal, I think - 10/25/10 11:35 AM
yep - many of them..John Frank

(oddly, i have a nephew with the same name)
Posted By: wouter79 Re: I am normal, I think - 10/25/10 01:37 PM
"you would not even come close to having the musical baggage that one should have before playing a piece like this. "

Why do you need musical baggage to play Rach?

What specific "musical baggage" does playing bagatelle's, prelude's, nocturne's, mazurka's, etude give to the player? And why is just hearing (a part of ) them not enough?
Posted By: Victor25 Re: I am normal, I think - 10/25/10 06:26 PM
Because playing the piano, and expressing yourself with the piano, isn't the same as listening. Believe me, else I would be one heck of a player!
Posted By: Spitfire Re: I am normal, I think - 10/25/10 08:21 PM
Originally Posted by jazzyprof
Originally Posted by Argerich5405
I looked at the score and it didn't seem too bad.

Here are the first four measures. This should not be too much of a challenge. The only difficulty might be the proper fingering. My recommendation for these four measures is to practice breathing slowly with your hands on your lap. Use arm weight. Avoid the temptation to rush. Count silently 1-2-3-4. It helps if you keep your eyes closed.
[Linked Image]


ROFL. Funny post. I loved it.
Posted By: GeorgeB Re: I am normal, I think - 10/26/10 04:29 PM
One day i had a dream. The dream i could play piano. I dreamed of one day i could play every single piece in the piano repertoire. Then suddenly this old man

[Linked Image]

came to me, and gave me his hands. When i sat down, i magically started playing anything i wanted. Oh yeah, i started playing liszt concerto no.2, as well as rach 1-4, lets not forget ravel gaspard de la nuit and al the liszt studies...
Posted By: Rui725 Re: I am normal, I think - 10/26/10 04:37 PM
Come one guys, why is everyone starting with these sarcastic postings. This thread is complete sh.t now.

Posted By: HeirborneGroupie Re: I am normal, I think - 10/26/10 04:46 PM
I hang out mostly here in the ABF because the people here seemed to be more interested in helping people than in negativity and sarcasm.

Am I wrong?
Posted By: elecmuse3 Re: I am normal, I think - 10/26/10 05:01 PM
Originally Posted by HeirborneGroupie
I hang out mostly here in the ABF because the people here seemed to be more interested in helping people than in negativity and sarcasm.

Am I wrong?

Not completely.
The OP's post does leave plenty of room for the higher than usual percentage of sarcastic replies.
IMHO, the post could well be just to generate a response, and isn't that need a part of why we play music?
Posted By: HeirborneGroupie Re: I am normal, I think - 10/26/10 05:07 PM
Noted. Isn't silence a response? Wouldn't that be a more intelligent way to respond to a thread like this?
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: I am normal, I think - 10/26/10 05:11 PM
Originally Posted by Argerich5405
I just feel like I'm not normal... well, maybe just looking for some reassurance that I'm ok!


I think that's quite normal for a young person who practices correctly minimum 4-5 hours/day everyday. Keep up your good work! smile
Posted By: Victor25 Re: I am normal, I think - 10/26/10 05:26 PM
Euhm LisztAddict, you think its normal for someone who has been playing for 1 year and 3 months, that his teacher tells him he can "tackle" Rachmaninoff's second piano concerto???
Posted By: GeorgeB Re: I am normal, I think - 10/26/10 06:06 PM
Originally Posted by LisztAddict
Originally Posted by Argerich5405
I just feel like I'm not normal... well, maybe just looking for some reassurance that I'm ok!


I think that's quite normal for a young person who practices correctly minimum 4-5 hours/day everyday. Keep up your good work! smile



Seriously 1 year of technique is nothing to play a rach concerto. i didnt practice 4/5 hours a day when i started cos i was too small and mym hands would have fallen off, but it does seem strange how the heck a 1 year old technique manages to play a rach 2. I think either he gives a video with him actually showing that he can do something up to the standard that he claims to be or even something to show that he is nearly there or its false
Posted By: Opus45 Re: I am normal, I think - 10/26/10 07:08 PM
Originally Posted by Argerich5405
Oh, la campanella seems difficult! I haven't gotten to any Liszt yet but he wrote some hard stuff. Thanks everyone for saying I'm normal..


My apologies Argerich, I was only teasing. I'm impressed with your progress.

Why do you want to be normal?
Posted By: LisztAddict Re: I am normal, I think - 10/26/10 07:21 PM
There was a poster here on ABF, he started when he was 18 years old. In about 6 months after he started, he was able to play Mendelssohn Op 67 No 2. In about a year, he could play Schubert impromptu Op 90 No 1 really well.

Rachmaninoff concerto #2, 2nd movement isn't technically difficult to "tackle". When this person will be able to play it, that's not the point here.
Posted By: Victor25 Re: I am normal, I think - 10/26/10 08:08 PM
I don't know of many teachers that would assign it to a new student, but we'l see, I would love to see a recording if he does manage it.
Posted By: jazzyprof Re: I am normal, I think - 10/26/10 08:32 PM
Originally Posted by Victor25
I would love to see a recording if he does manage it.

She's a she. smile
Posted By: Victor25 Re: I am normal, I think - 10/27/10 09:03 AM
Reminds me of Brooke Taylor.
Posted By: FreddyChopin Re: I am normal, I think - 10/28/10 12:15 AM
Sorry, but I have to ask. Do you realize the social consequences of the instrument? Piano is not like other band or orchestra instruments. It can be also a antisocial machine. If you practice each day for 4/5 hours after work on the piano the machine could eventually tackle you back and you become a sort of lonely machine. I think the step from not playing the piano to playing it for 5 hours a day in 1 year is not that normal and "can" lead to mental health problems. I don't say you will get them, but I only say plz take a lot of breaks, do fun things with friends and skip the piano sometimes. See the oscar winning movie "Shine" for more info and for the beautiful Rach 3 smile
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