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Posted By: Duaner Tuning Pins Glued....now wait...how long? - 10/21/20 11:32 PM
Here's a scenario. I have a vertical piano on its back and I have just glued all the tuning pins....

Now, really, really, really....what is the minimum amount of time that I need to wait before I set it back up and tune it?

Need to know what you think and practice as I have done this before but I waited until the next day before setting the piano back up and tuning it. I thought that was over kill to wait that long. Besides if you are a quite a distance from home and you have to go back the next day well, that's the pits. I have two of these jobs coming up and timing is real important.
I would think in about an hour you'd be able to put it back up and tune it. However, I've never tilted one on it's back to glue it.
It can even be "good to go" in minutes: the time it takes to put it upright again and in place. The reaction between cellulose and cyanoacrylate seems to be very rapid.
Duane,

As stated, there is no need to wait. The stuff will not drip out when you right the piano. You can begin to tune as soon as you have sufficient torque (which should be within 15 minutes).

Peter Grey Piano Doctor
is it CA?
I tip, start on A-0 work up to C-8, untip and tune. No waiting. It's tight enough to tune. It will be tighter yet and tune differently (the pin setting part of tuning) next time, but every piano has a different feel.
That's been my experience too.
Hi Duane,

Whatever glue you're using should have the dry times listed on the container.

I think the better question to ask would be 'why glue in the first place, and is there a better solution?' Usually the primary reason for glueing pins is a loose pin block, and I've found that driving pins delivers better results and a more satisfactory tuning, if such can be achieved. If driving pins doesn't work, then it's time to have a conversation with the owner about the longevity of their instrument and the possibility of upgrading.

Glueing, applying pin tightener, etc. is admittedly completely foreign to me: I was warned off as a young apprentice from applying such a temporary fix, I've had the warning reinforced through multiple experiences following someone else's work, and it is a banned substance at my employer's place of business both at my recommendation and that of our senior technician emeritus. Invariably, even with the most careful application, the result is an over-tightened pin block with tuning pins prone to skipping, or worse yet broken pins as a result of the torsion force placed on them.

I'm not adding my two cents here in order to call anyone out for their practices, I only want to contribute an opposing opinion to the discussion here for future readers to reference.
Auraltuner, you are a breath of fresh air. I'm very happy you're here sharing your experiences. Bravo! Your writing gives me some hope for the future of piano technology.

Unfortunately, I've been reading bizarro world here for way too long. So many technicians preach the gospel of crazy glue as if it is a normal way to address a loose pin or other problems in the piano. The sentiment is so prevalent that piano owners are starting to ask tuners to use the super glue so that the tuning will last longer. It's madness. You seem to be able to approach the issue in a more diplomatic manner than I. Good for you. I have a hard time holding back when confronted with such matters.

Unless the piano is destined for the trash, crazy glue has no place in regular piano maintenance. It can be an emergency life-support measure employed when there is no budget for a proper repair, but it is not a gold standard or accepted means of repair. It should remain a hidden secret. Something that you might do, but never talk about.

Technicians should take the time to understand how the pinblock is intended to function. There is no specific pin height that all the pins should be. It is a range, and it is all done by feel at the hammer. When a pin starts to get loose, you hammer the pin further into the block to even out what you feel at the hammer - hence the origin of the term "piano hammer," it is a normal thing to do to hammer the pin further into the block. We want a consistent feel at the hammer. Once you drive the pin too much, you go up two pin sizes. That doesn't mean 2/0 to 4/0, it means if you take out a 2/0medium length, you go to a 3/0short length. This is how you get the most life out of the pinblock.

I take care of a high use piano that has over 10k documented tunings. It still has the original pinblock and everything is holding exceptionally well using the aforementioned traditional approach to piano maintenance.

In any event, I don't know the circumstances of the piano and customer in this particular thread. My comments are in general. I just hope that people are always given a full disclaimer of the risks involved when using crazy glue.
The appropriate warnings HAVE been sounded here numerous times. If one cares to check previous threads one will find this to be the case.

However, as everyone knows, this forum is inhabited by experienced, semi-experienced, and non-experienced persons. Some are adamant about how to do or not things, some prefer a level of proof before trying things, and some have just barely enough knowledge but a lot of brass and dive headlong into things without stopping to consider the consequences, or they've read something somewhere and come here to try to find out if it's a good thing to do...sometimes they listen and sometimes they don't, and sometimes they get bad advice.

I agree that some procedures should remain like a "hidden secret" due to the possibility of unauthorized use/abuse. But this is a problem on a public forum, no control over what gets said or what gets done. Moderators only get involved when a person becomes abusive of others, not if they give poor advice.

That's just my .02 for tonight.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor
Originally Posted by Auraltuner
Hi Duane,
...

Invariably, even with the most careful application, the result is an over-tightened pin block with tuning pins prone to skipping, or worse yet broken pins as a result of the torsion force placed on them.

....

Invariably? Well not on this side of the Mason-Dixon line, but broken pins? You, yourself, have seen broken pins due to the use of CA? Should I grab a tub of salt, or just go ahead and put on my hip waders?
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