Since COVID started I been enjoying teaching online. Way more easy and convenient and I get paid the same amount which is most important. Even if covid no longer becomes a pandemic, I think i want to stick to teaching most of my students online.

Im still building up the current number of students I have. I would like to gradually work full time as a piano teacher, and that can range from 25 to 40 hours a week, so i'd need 50-80 students in total.

I also post a facebook ad and that gets some decent traction. I have it as online and in person, but maybe I should set it as just online only and have it set so that people from other states can see it too?

If you advertise teaching both online and in person, the assumption is that online is second-best. Or less expensive. Or just offered during the present covid times, for scaredy-cats.

If your true preference is for online piano teaching, then yes, you should expand your geographical advertising base as wide as you can afford to. Don't even limit yourself to the US, since your location truly would not matter.

And skip all mention of in-person lessons.

I'm so done with online piano teaching. I don't know how you could do this to yourself.

'Scaredy-cats' - really?

Maybe have some respect for other people's experiences, situations and comfort levels.

OP - do what's right for you, but I know that I benefit from in-person sessions more than online, and that is as a student and a teacher.

'Scaredy-cats' - really?

Maybe have some respect for other people's experiences, situations and comfort levels.

OP - do what's right for you, but I know that I benefit from in-person sessions more than online, and that is as a student and a teacher.[/
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Hi Fatar
I think you have misread Peter’s response. He is not calling anyone who wants to teach remotely ‘scarlet-cats’. His point is that those that read an ad for onsite and online lessons may view the onsite mention as only because of Covid fears rather than a clear preferdnce of lesson types. That is why he recommended only referencing online lessons in the ad.

Yes, I feel you may be correct and hadn't read it in the way you mentioned.

Peter, please accept my apologies for any misunderstanding.

If all teachers were competent I think that would be true.

I suspect online with a good teacher is way way better than in person with an average teacher.

(I have an online lesson this morning. I'd rather be in person, he is good, but we do what we can.)

I suspect that a very good teacher will not be able to use all of his excellent skills when teaching online. I would kind to hear from online teachers. One example: your student has tension in his right shoulder. Can you notice this in an online lesson? If yes, how do you correct it?

Do you have any problems demonstrating technique online?

Is there any problem with hearing the piano tone snd volume as if you were in the room?

Like so many of my colleagues, I've learned how to teach online during the covid, and it is less bad than I expected. That's not to say that it is good. Piano sound is bad, the delay is annoying, and of course there is no such thing as playing or singing together with a student. Moreover, the simple physicality of the encounter between two people is missing. Banter is missing. Close interaction is missing. To me it's an awkward, second-rate-substitute educational experience.

Thanks. Peter for your input.

Thanks, Fatar, I wasn't clear. You and I view virtual education similarly.

And those things are important, I think.

But we're using the same instructional model for both. Maybe online needs to be less immediately interactive, and more alternating. One person plays, sends a recording, eliminating latency. A day later teacher sends back a recording: this is what you did, this is what you should do. Something like how athletic coaching is done. Dumb idea maybe, but given that online is here to stay for awhile, maybe smart people can come up with improvements.

I mentioned I had a lesson today. Right away he identified a serious fault, a bad habit that I had developed. We worked on that about an hour before we got it looking and sounding right. The fix wasn't obvious and we had to try a few approaches. On that occasion I don't think it would have made any difference to be in person. (I ran an ethernet cable to my practice room, wifi drops out too much.)

Tim, you've said something important and that has been on my mind for some time. I've studied on-line some years now, and have done some teaching. It makes no sense for teaching on-line to try to replicate in-person teaching. Well, why should it? You have different things at your disposal, while not having other things. So use what you do have, in the best way possible. Isn't that how in-person teaching evolved, and what we do in teaching? In fact, in my teacher training years ago, in creating teaching units and lesson plans, you looked at what you wanted to get students to master, and then all the tools you have available and how you might use them.

In working on-line, each of you has a computer, a piano, a camera and a microphone. Either person can create and send recordings. Written material can be sent back and forth and stored, via Dropbox or similar. There are teachers now who mix up the different possibilities in different ways. Think of the lessons of Dr. Mortensen that get cited so often, and are used and followed. He teaches classes at university, and that material is produced for his students whom he teaches live. Instead of (or in addition to) showing the same principle over and over, he records an excellent version once, and says "Study and work with this." Or ..... a student creates and sends a video, which the teacher can refer back to and say "listen to what you've done over here. Can you hear and see that?" And more.

It struck me one day during the pandemic, when I saw one of those virtual school classes on Youtube with the usual bloopers or "funny scenarios". 20 faces all staring out from their individual squares, with the teacher's face lecturing, but someone is cooking himself lunch while listening, and another has blanked out her screen and may not be there. "Not able to control classroom behaviour the same way." But why on earth are they replicating the classroom lecture scenario, which itself is outdated? Instead of using the rich resources that modern technology has to offer, for learning? I mean, why are they trying to replicate a teacher standing in front of a chalkboard lecturing, with students sitting at their desks, hands folded, listening, as though it were 1950? While virtual?

In theory you are correct but not in practice. The student I teach online now is 8 years old. He plays on an out of tune upright. They are too afraid of Covid to have a tuner come despite all being vaccinated. The camera works alright, but the sound cuts out, especially when he is speaking. The volume of the actual music does not allow for nuanced corrections. It is very difficult for me to get him to connect the notes legato and to have flow.

I tried to send a recording of me playing and instructing for three minutes. They barely looked at it and only after I asked twice. He wasn't able to incorporate the points very well. It took me about a half hour to make and send it (with help), unpaid time.

He is at a difficult point between beginner and introductory music. It takes me twice the energy to teach him and some time afterward to type his homework assignment.

This is not proper piano teaching, only worth 55% of my usual lesson to him.

Yes. I'm not convinced it works that well, but that it can work better than if one attempts to merely replicate the studio reality. A dedicated adult or teen and good teacher, can get something together. There are tons of handicaps, even in that scenario. Your story is like many that I have heard.

Not a teacher but my mum and I have lessons, my mum whom is over 60 prefers online lessons as she is able to be comfortable and have her items beside her (she has a chronic cough and likes to have her boiled candies and water). It also reduces travel time for her. Initially, the technology posed as a bit of a challenge however she does not need any assistance now.

Ironically, I have resumed lessons in person, my teacher lives further away and we are both relatively young and good with technology.

So, I think whatever that makes the student carries on is the best option. I did not mind the online lessons as it reduces travel time and I also find that my teacher and I get along better (sometimes we have disagreements).
We resumed in person lessons mostly as my teacher wished it and I felt that he could pick out my flaws easier.

I adapted my online teaching to make use of the tools we have and not simply try futilely to recreate an in-person lesson via screen. Practice recordings was one of them, and I've made over 150 short video clips (usually <1 min) demonstrating and explaining certain techniques and concepts. I know they work because around 20% of students were using them successfully. For many others, I could open up the assigned-weeks-ago-video (either on my laptop in person or screen share online), pause it at every instruction, wait for them to do it, and THEY GET IT right then and there. Someone else could have operated the pause button but they just didn't try at all.

Practice works too. I've had similar age or level students in small groups online, show them all something, have them all practice it on mute (with string instruments, I can give feedback based on what I see), have them show me individually, have everyone hear the feedback I give to each one, etc. If they are working on different assignments, I can check one student, have them practice a specific thing for a few minutes while I check others, then go back to the first one, have them work on tweaking one thing, and with a few rounds of feedback like this, they get it. (When I was teaching outside the first pandemic summer, I would do this with siblings - give one an assignment, send them off in the distance to work on it, while I worked with the other, and vice versa.)

At first, I was a little uneasy about charging full tuition that reflected the time and effort I would spend making videos, writing assignments, reviewing student recordings, and giving feedback because many of them wouldn't actually complete the back half of that. However, my mentor said I most certainly should NOT charge less for them to not use what my professional expertise has provided (i.e., if you sign up for a personal trainer to give you a custom workout plan, you still owe the fee, regardless of if you implement the plan or not).

Motto: if student doesn't practice, cause the practicing to happen in the instructional format. If your studio is full of diligent practicers and you wouldn't be spending hours of screen time doing musical babysitting, all this coaxing and cajoling might be unnecessary!

As to the original question about teaching exclusively online, my structure for online teaching would involve groups and recordings (and monthly in person). Most people will have a concept of online lessons as live screen time sessions weekly, it would take a lot to overcome that as a default view, and I imagine most would just move on. I would be "competing" with the multitudes of online teachers who could be available from any corner of the internet-connected world. I don't find that worth my time and effort and would rather stick to my local area and use online resources to benefit local students as needed.

Hey! From 2020 i teach my students only online. Since 2020, I have been studying only online. My students are from China, Russia and the USA. What can I say? of course, personal occupation is much better. However, for example, in our country, everyone is already used to online. No need to go anywhere. You can work from home. I study through zoom. In parallel, I write notes on the iPad in the notes, what and how. I used to work for a Chinese company, they gave their students special cameras with a mirror. The student's hands were visible through it. Cool thing. Unfortunately, there are still few developments about new technologies

Hi Dimchester
Just wanted to say ‘Welcome to Piano World’

When I Zoomed lessons it took twice as long.

Why?

Because I re-watched each video lesson and typed practice notes to email the families.

Yes, I could just send the video, but we all know that maybe 3 of 20 students will actually watch it, and pay attention.

I did make a master list of the "same" notes per lesson (Theory page 20, look at problem 6. and be sure to circle xyz in red, and look at how it related to page 5, with the bird reference...) but each student is different and I just cannot carbon copy everything.

As for 50 or more students, well, that is what I have in person now, and I am BUSY! (some lessons are 45 minutes. Some adults. Some young beginners. Some transfers. Many with me for years.)

When I had Zoom, I delivered copies of enrichment music, worksheets I found on-line, plus I would email links of concepts to learn. I was mailing some things, driving to student's houses and dropping things off at their door and it was all extra work. I guess it was worth it, because I am 0% advertising.

I am booked full!

And I have zero plans to teach online again. I put away by three camera system. Done!

Now I utilize a lending library, I like colored pencils, students like their stickers, handing out book prizes, my foot bench for the littles, my being able to play duets, counting out loud together, ability to see hand and body posture, and so much more that I was not able to do over Zoom.

I did what I could, and it was good, but for me, in person is so so much better.

We all have strengths and weaknesses.

I'm a people person!

I have no experience as a piano teacher, but I have taught music theory and composition online for years. It just doesn't work. Teaching online only works if the subject is very simple, like baking cookies.

I've had a decent amount of success as an online student, as have some others I have spoken to. It takes a student who is intelligent and willing to put in effort and follow through with everything the teacher suggests. It's not impossible though. That said, I have a rather autodidactic nature, which probably helps with this.

Teachers in high cost countries like the US may regret it if online teaching takes off. There are good piano teachers in much cheaper places. I won’t bother to list countries but think of South America or Eastern Europe.

Even teachers from Canada will seem cheaper because of the exchange rate — I’ve often wondered if students in the border towns crossed over to get cheaper tuition.

Personally I wouldn’t bother with an online teacher unless the lesson was half the price of in person one — it’s hard to get more than 50% of the value per time.

Personally, I am not convinced that even the best teachers teaching the best students can accomplish as much online. There are just technological deficiencies. I would not switch to an online teacher due yo lower costs in another country, as long as I can find a good local teacher. In an area with limited teachers, that may not always be possible snd online lessons may be required.

I'm in Canada. So no, teachers from Canada will not seem cheaper than local teachers in Canada.

You may have it backward. Finding a GOOD teacher is hard, because they are rare. If a student goes the on-line route, it is often in a quest for quality, not cheapness.

This.

I lost half my students from start of pandemic and inquiries of new students has been slow. I do online and in their home. Wonder if others have same experience, if people are scared and putting off lessons. Or people are just too stressed out.

My mind is blown whenever somebody says they plan to "Stay online" forever. Like..HOW??

If you can make it work for you, that's great. I can't understand how you would be able to:

1.) Comment on extremes of dynamic shading and tone
2.) Observe, demonstrate, and comment on pedaling
3.) Have a student count aloud as they play
4.) Count aloud for a student as they play
5.) Point to the score as a student plays, or point to things in the score.
6.) Be able to observe a student's whole posture from all angles.
7.) Have patience to constantly buy new copies of the exact books, or request scans from parents (who rarely listen get it done on time anyway)
8.) Play Duets
9.) Sing/speak AT students while they are playing
10.) Touch a student to make points about hand position, or pressure of touch, wrist movement, etc.
11.) Clearly monitor a student fingering,

There are many more. But I couldn't in good conscious charge money to stop doing all these things that I consider fundamentals of teaching.

Hi Opus
Thanks so much for your detailed list.

I've studied with an on-line teacher for a number of years, not because I wanted to study on-line, but because I ran into a good teacher so we made it work where we could. It is not perfect, but it's also not impossible. I'd always opt for it over poor quality in-person teaching. So I'll try to go through your list.
First, the student has to be at the level of "shading and tone" (which some of us are). You supplement with recordings and/or videos that are sent in, often to a cloud-type location (by student and/or teacher). This is taken up in the live lessons where what can be addressed live gets addressed. The weak side of this is the physical aspect of playing, of producing the desired dynamics etc. That said, it's not absent and observations can be made.

As above. I've experienced a lot of teaching in the area of pedaling, comments on pedaling, and received demos, which again are largely (but not exclusively) via sound files. I suggest that anyone teaching on-line also show the physical motion of pedal at least once, with a camera pointing at the pedal, and it may be a good idea to see a student's foot at least once. I did correct pedal sound-wise, but the up-down range was way too wide - camera pointing at pedal was a trouble shooter.

That can be done live, as long as you don't try to count along with the student. I also have recordings where I counted, to test things. Again - recordings.
Zoom has that option via Screenshare. It ges used.
Agree.

??? Don't students have to buy books in any case? How, as a student, do you practise material, unless you have material to practise, and how do you get that material without buying it? Do you mean loaning out from your personal library of material? Some teachers also create their own teaching material (scores). Finale lets you convert to PDF, which can be put into a shared cloud like Dropbox, for access by the student / parent.

Agree. You can't, on-line.
(Asking myself - do I want a teacher to be singing/speaking "at" me WHILE I'm playing? not sure)

Agree
My fingering has been pointed out to me, if rarely, because usually fingering is carefully worked out and checked. I understand that this is not a problem.

Just from my own observations, so that it's not only conjecture. Perhaps those who teach on-line could speak to this some more. In-person teaching with a good teacher is definitely the ideal, but not always possible. From what I understand from a couple of teachers who transitioned to on-line during the pandemic, if you're trying to teach well, it is more tiring, more work. I imagine it's like trying to drive carefully during a snowstorm with poor visibility. If you're an expert you can pull it off, but it wears you out. (I do hear of something like "Zoom fatigue".)

I'm actually thinking of a hybrid, where some advantages of on-line teaching could be brought into in-person teaching. Think of Dr. Mortensen, who has a permanent record of videos where the main points he teaches are locked into a final form, and available on-line for his students, and generously, to all of us.

Just a comment.


Actually you can, and I have. But it requires an additional piece of technology that's fairly expensive, and both parties need one, so it's not just a matter of the teacher buying it. It removes enough latency that you can count together or play duets. But the advantages would not be worth the cost for most situations. Our ensemble had a performance scheduled, and we couldn't rehearse during the peak of COVID, so we all bought.

There are probably options but we went with Jacktrip, like a lot of other groups did.

Perfect analogy. This is what I saw happening as well. Good teachers were able to still be very effective. They could hear many of the nuances, tone production, pedal, all of it. Many of them can tell in advance just by looking at how you press a key and your general body posture pretty much how you're going to sound. All of it over a zoom call. So it's definitely possible, but as you said, like driving through a snowstorm.

Well said. I couldn't agree more.

Opus, your list is well thought out and makes sense for me. The ONLY benefits for me to teach online are:

1. The comfort of teaching online and not having to travel
2. Elimination of stress of dealing with parents who insist on sending sick children in for lessons

I often had students perform duets in recitals, or listen to a prior or incoming student play a piece for them. There are many impromptu things we do in lessons that I can't imagine doing online.