View the thread, I really am anxious about getting some responses. This problem ceases to go away and I want it solved. Thank you for your time.

http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=50863.0

I can't view the thread...

Post your questions or comments here. In that way, you might get someone to take you seriously.

Ok I don't know why.

EVERYBODY

go to piano street then click on piano forums then go to the teachers forum like on this site. There, you should see a title called Inconsistent relationship with piano teacher, my name there is also musiqientist

Please help!!!!

Here, trying again.

http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=50863.0

Wow.

Okay.

I'm a non-teacher crashing this forum.

I fall apart playing in front of my teacher. That's okay. He realizes it.

I'm not performing for him. His -job- is to nitpick my playing. I still fall apart, but his advice is great.

A teacher-student relationship is an alchemical relationship. The teacher can be great. Alternatively, the student can be great. But a great student and a great teacher might not necessarily be a great team. At that point in time and space.

I had a lot of teachers as a kid (frequent moves). I had a few as an adult.

I finally found a teacher who I really, really connect with and who I think is really helping me. I feel really fortunate.

In short:

* It's completely natural to feel a nervous wreck in front of your teacher.
* It's completely natural to perform terribly in front of your teacher.
* It's probably wrong to try to 'perform' for your teacher.
* You want your teacher to be extremely picky and discriminating.
* You also want to feel your teacher supporting you and also pushing you.
* Even if everything is right on paper, if the chemistry isn't working, it isn't right.

Don't panic, yet listen to your gut.

Wrong. You should NEVER feel that way with your teacher. If you have a good relationship with them you should be very comfortable around them.

For the OP: Don't link us off to other sites. If you want advice, post your question HERE. Copy and paste the material you want us to read into a post-that's it.

.

Why not? Alright that's fine but....how would that work with all the replies on there? Just paste it all? I want the whole thread looked at.

Do whatever you have to do.

But I need to know if I can make it!!!! Instead I'm scared of her and don't know if she knows anything and if she doesn't then she doesn't care but i don't know that either! Do you think the chemistry is wrong? The only thing that would say that the chemistry is wrong is that I'm nervous. That's all. I think it's me. There's no apparent reason for me to be like this around her. I think it's the cutting things she's said, they say all the best teachers in a conservatory say such things anyways. I don't know if she supports me. That's what I'm trying to figure out.

Thanks for the encouragement. Did you look at the whole thread, surely there's more to say!!!!

Why? Is it against the rules?

No, but people don't like to have to go and look in another website for the thread.

Oh ok I guess.. I think it'll look like a mess when I paste it here.

Erm you were gonna look at it so can you give me a response?

Yes...why else would I be bothering to keep posting on this thread?

So you working on one? Sorry about that.

Huh?

No, I told you that I cannot access it unless you paste it here. I cannot get onto that site now, for whatever reason. That is why you should always paste it into PW.

Are we seeing a connection here?

Oh sorry I'm sleepy 12 hours school today. :pp I'm on an iPad give me a sec.

musiqientist
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Inconsitent Relationship with Teacher
« on: April 23, 2013, 06:37:04 PM »
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Hello Piano Street! This is my first post but I have been doing a lot of browsing on the forums, particularly in the teaching forum and think it's safe to post my thoughts on this site so I'll probably be around from time to time. I'm a piano student, 17 years old. Nice to meet you! ^^
*bows*

---------------

So the concern I have at the moment us that I feel very distant from my piano teacher as my interaction with her is very important to me as somebody who started late on the piano but absolutely loves it and will inevitably study it sometime in the not so distant future.

I feel nervous to play in front of her and never able to play nearly as good as when I'm at home. The difference is really significant; I'm just afraid to play in front of her and very scared of making small changes to the music for the first time in front of her. Like if she tells me to add a trill, I'll want to do it at home first multiple times on my own before showing her, it feel scary to do otherwise somehow. I'm afraid to make that kind of mistake in front of her because it shows incompetency and her personality is quite elitist. This all feels foreign to me because these kinds of things would never have been a problem for me just a couple years ago.

I care very much for the piano and I am not sure if she knows or cares, her response shows mixed opinions and I'm not sure what she actually thinks of me. I wonder if she knows that I am doing my best to progress very fast and I would never mention such a thing to her but I think I'm doing well! At the moment I've been playing for about a year solid and am currently working on a Mozart Concerto, 2 grade 9 solos, 2 Chopin etudes, and an easier piece by Bach. I love these pieces I'm playing and I think that they are... hard! I have no problem with this but she doesn't take that into consideration period. I'm not sure but I think she might think I have too much ego, that's not how I feel about myself however.

I care very much for the piano and I am not sure if she knows or cares, her responses show mixed opinions and the logic doesn't add up. She seems to be good at reading me though which is somewhat disturbing, seeing as how I am purposefully difficult to read. This is all really depressing for me because music is always on mind and I am extremely interesting and always thirsty to learn more. I can research and learn about classical music history all day, I can listen all day, play all day. Most of the time I'd describe her as stoic, unyielding, and criticizing. I want to get really good and I know that's difficult, so I need to know whether or not that's possible. I want to know what my potential is. Wish she was warmer and more approachable, I'm jealous of the idea that somebody has a more mentoring figure as a teacher. What's more frustrating is that on the outside she is really hospitable and motherly but I know that is you were to approach her directly with an issue she would instantly put on another face. I feel that if she is doing this on purpose that it's all really unnecessary because I'm not a 10 year old being forced to take lessons. I wonder why she does what she does; in the end I'm afraid to tell her my thoughts.

Anyways, in case somebody was going to suggest that I find somebody else I'll go ahead and say that I cannot leave this teacher. I want things to get better with her because I know that if they do, it will be worth it! She inspires my very much. She has a PH.D from Juilliard; she is an authentic musician who had a musical family. She was a prodigy and started at age 2 and has perfect pitch, she can instantly memorize any piece of music and play it by ear. I always feel like I very much want to impress her.

So, I hope I get some replies on your thoughts and what anybody thinks I should do. Any advice is appreciated. I think the writing in this post might be to general and confusing, I was going to make a longer and more concise post but I couldn't wait any longer, these things have been on my mind for a while. I have a lot of other posts to make so you might see some things later on that are related to this. If you PM me, I'll have more specific things to say on the matter and can answer questions. That would be appreciated; I don't want to list specifics in case she sees this.

Thanks for reading. I hope this post isn't offensive, I feel like a whiner.

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Re: Inconsitent Relationship with Teacher
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2013, 07:18:54 PM »
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And, hello to you...equally deep bow.

If you look for my posts (and there are way too many) you'll see that the majority are about what you describe...a teacher who is intimidating to me and who seems to be constantly criticizing me.

I tried to "break up" with her and at what I thought would be my final lesson she told me that I was one of the 4 or 5 students of her 50 who actually cared about the piano. I also learned from the Director of the program that she (my teacher) was so pleased by my progress that she thanks the Director for assigning me to her.

Unless everyone is blowing smoke up my a*s..(which is ample and hard to miss), I took away from this: If you care, you are going to be nervous. If she cares, she is going to be critical..because she feels you are capable of learning more and caring enough to work hard to achieve more.
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Re: Inconsitent Relationship with Teacher
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2013, 11:16:50 PM »
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Are you treating her as a teacher, from whom you learn things, or as an audience who you are trying to impress.

If the former, then it is your weaknesses and failings that you should be showing her.

If the latter, you're wasting your money.
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Re: Inconsitent Relationship with Teacher
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2013, 05:23:39 AM »
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If you want things to get better, you will need to accept that change needs to happen. Part of that change will come from you. With change also may come doubt, uncertainty, loss of a sense of custom, questions. Not at all bad things if they are put in the context of growth.

Do you consider yourself to be a sensitive person? In general, do you deal well with criticism?

What is puzzling to me is that many of the arguments you make suggest a degree of incompatibility between student and teacher. Yet you are very ardently insistent on continuing on with this teacher. Are you in any way related to this teacher?

Learning involves an element of vulnerability. The more vulnerable you avail yourself to your teacher, the more willing you are to express your weaknesses, the more you will be able to benefit from the teaching. If you feel an inadequacy in playing something your teacher asks of you, you need to bring that into the open not sweep it under the rug. Your teacher can help you better if you openly admit to that inadequacy and nervousness in playing. A good teacher will not shame or belittle you for doing so, but show you how to overcome your inadequacy.

You don't go to lessons just to have your teacher constantly say you are doing a great job without need for further comment. You go to lessons to learn. You may learn things that seem foreign, things that make you feel uncomfortable, and things that you absolutely disagree with, and you may also have "light bulb" moments when your teacher says something and the puzzle comes together all at once. You go to lessons to learn. You are not under any obligation to agree with everything your teacher says, or do everything your teacher asks of you, but you must take it all into thought.

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Re: Inconsitent Relationship with Teacher
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2013, 06:54:52 PM »
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Quote from: musiqientist on April 23, 2013, 06:37:04 PM


I feel nervous to play in front of her and never able to play nearly as good as when I'm at home. The difference is really significant; I'm just afraid to play in front of her and very scared of making small changes to the music for the first time in front of her. ...


Boy, if I had a nickel for every student who's said that to me, and every time I've felt it in front of my teacher!

In all seriousness, though, I think you need a new teacher.

I'm was always sensitive to criticism, and I always want to impress. I recognize some of myself in you. What worked for me is finding the right teacher who put me at ease, took the pressure away, and made me feel like we were working 'on the same side'. It's also true that my time in the classical-training grinder desensitized me to criticism somewhat, but I'm not a fan of that approach. When I finally found a teacher who didn't put me ill-at-ease, I got better FASTER, not slower.

The world is FULL of self-taught musicians who rejected teachers because they hated how it made them feel. I'm was one of them for a long time. Thing is, in the classical world it's nearly impossible to know what to do without feedback. I see that you have the desire, so a decent teacher (not just player, but teacher) should be able to help you. Conversely, I fear that sticking with this regimen may make you hate playing, which IMO is both tragedy and travesty when committed by the music education profession.

So, in short, don't let your natural desire be stifled, and find someone who can help you achieve your goals with joy. This does NOT mean someone who praises everything you do as perfect, but someone who lets you know the deal without grinding it too deep.
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musiqientist
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Re: Inconsitent Relationship with Teacher
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2013, 09:38:09 PM »
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If you look for my posts (and there are way too many) you'll see that the majority are about what you describe...a teacher who is intimidating to me and who seems to be constantly criticizing me.

Yeah, I think it's a bit different between us though. It's not that open and she doesn't constantly criticize me but there's quite a bit of that and a lack of praise at what I think would make most teachers very happy. I cannot satisfy her, this is all fine with me but I do need to know where I stand. I also think I am intimidating to her as well but that doesn't seem to bother her as much, I wish it did. I often feel that we are playing a mind game but I am not sure. Nothing would suggest so but things spon that are logically inconsistent to what things appear to be. That's what I'm trying to figure out here.

Quote
I tried to "break up" with her and at what I thought would be my final lesson she told me that I was one of the 4 or 5 students of her 50 who actually cared about the piano. I also learned from the Director of the program that she (my teacher) was so pleased by my progress that she thanks the Director for assigning me to her.
My piano teacher would never offer up a thing, though when I tell others about my progress they are very surprised. I would ask her if this is hard and she would say no, because she could do it at 9 years old, contrary to such statements however, when I make her happy she says "good (my name) and then cuts it off before she finishes and says "finally" instead. Then she starts getting energized and very pushy, beyond my limts. When I say I can't do something as in, we'll never be able to get it up to tempo, she simply says "you have to" and forces me to play. When I already have a lot she says "We need something else." And I say that I was thinking of doing this etude and then she says "I wanna see it." Then I tell her I haven't practiced it and don't like sight reading in front of people and she makes me play it anyways, then she says "your suppose to practice it" when she never assigned it to begin with. I tell her 5 pieces at once is a lot and she says "your lucky" than I say, "I'm not a concert pianist!" and she said "I'm training you to be an excellent student."

I know now you'd think that the answer to this thread is all clear but, this is a really good event that occurred in a lesson, sometimes things don't appear this way at all. Her mood seems to fluctuate with it too but I'm not sure it's her mood because that doesn't make sense either.
I tried to break up with her once because my parents were causing me stress and I told her that if I quit for just 2 months can she take me back and she said. "Sorry can't play games with you. No won't take you back. sorry you have issues whatever they are..." Goodbye (my name) ... I answered her back saying I'm not playing games and that I was serious and if I could come the following week, she said "Well I hope so." Then I asked her if I'd done anything wrong and she said "Em, I love you very much and want you to be happy." When I saw her that week and asked her about she said because she'll fill my spot and to let me know if I wanna quit. It was so cold but...it doesn't add up. She just changed my lesson time to an hour and can't I be put back on the waiting list? If she was playing a trick it would be an easy one to do because it's obvious in the first e-mail that I won't quit if I can't come back. She also tricked me once saying she was gonna move so she's capable of it. Her schedule seems very flexible and don't students go on vacation? 2 months? She won't get another student?? There were also other things that were logically inconsistent with this but I can't remember...there are too many things and I see her every week.

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Unless everyone is blowing smoke up my a*s..(which is ample and hard to miss), I took away from this: If you care, you are going to be nervous. If she cares, she is going to be critical..because she feels you are capable of learning more and caring enough to work hard to achieve more.

I am nervous and I don’t know if she can sense it. But she is the type that would think you should be. I don’t like how part of this is because her other students aren’t serious at all, though it only bothers me because she should know it’s not like that with me. She shows mixed signals once again, of knowing and not knowing this… I have listed specific examples above and really would prefer not to as the above is quite obviously us but it doesn’t look like the thread will go anywhere if I don’t which is why I like PM. )))))) Nobody has done it yet. I have 10 pages of things I've remembered up that hold value.

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Re: Inconsitent Relationship with Teacher
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2013, 10:11:57 PM »
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What is puzzling to me is that many of the arguments you make suggest a degree of incompatibility between student and teacher. Yet you are very ardently insistent on continuing on with this teacher. Are you in any way related to this teacher?

She has been teaching since she was 11, she is a renowned professor at has been on the faculty for nearly all the Universities in my region, she has also been the principal pianist for most of the local orchestras. Everybody knows her as a teacher and would say that you are ultimately blessed to have such a teacher, she is one with the caliber that has the ability to help you enter one of the best conservatories, there’s nothing she cannot teach you. She seems to be the type of teacher that most successful classical musician had, I think my first post was too emotional and gave off the wrong idea. I really adore her. I think she might be trying to teach me humility now because she’s under the false impressions that I need it. == She might think all people need it and perhaps even she did when she was young but doesn’t recognize that I am in the minority. She is a go getter, if something stands in her way she pushes harder, that’s the way she is. She doesn’t soften. I’m scared to give her info. I feel she might get invasive but…shouldn’t I let that occur??? I don’t know….
I think the incompatibility is mainly my problem and a misunderstanding. She is a sweet person on the inside and very charming, just quite self-preservative I think. I can’t think of a specific personality that would do better than what I have now, it’s not anything that..concrete. I’m excited to see her every week. I count down the days until it’s time for our lesson, I want it to come but also dread it because after it’s over I have another week to wait.
I think she may just be expecting me to take the mixed signs that she gives me to be positives and demands for improvement like a machine. She doesn’t mind that I’m blind… I think she might be thinking "just listen to me and be grateful for anything that apparently sounds like a good thing." Either I let it all into the open or it stays this way… ehhh is anybody still following me?
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Learning involves an element of vulnerability. The more vulnerable you avail yourself to your teacher, the more willing you are to express your weaknesses, the more you will be able to benefit from the teaching.
There’s just something about her though… It’s so mushy if I let her in like that. Yet, I want the challenge of managing to stand up to her so I don’t want to switch because I know staying with her will end up being more rewarding. I sometimes think I admire her for not getting drawn in.

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If you feel an inadequacy in playing something your teacher asks of you, you need to bring that into the open not sweep it under the rug. Your teacher can help you better if you openly admit to that inadequacy and nervousness in playing. A good teacher will not shame or belittle you for doing so, but show you how to overcome your inadequacy.
That will reveal my secrets, I’m not willing to do that yet somehow, I think for fear that I cannot become a great pianist and incorporate it in my career. I feel like….she did all these great things and made it, but I’m not even close. So why would it happen for me? She speaks a lot of achievements and is elitist as I said. I’m already in a sensitive spot and just the idea that she won’t be gentle is really scary. Sometimes she is when I’ve done really well but I’m not sure how harsh she’ll get if I let her know. I mean she’s already so… but the again that’s only sometimes.

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You don't go to lessons just to have your teacher constantly say you are doing a great job without need for further comment. You go to lessons to learn. You may learn things that seem foreign, things that make you feel uncomfortable, and things that you absolutely disagree with, and you may also have "light bulb" moments when your teacher says something and the puzzle comes together all at once. You go to lessons to learn. You are not under any obligation to agree with everything your teacher says, or do everything your teacher asks of you, but you must take it all into thought.
I have all those moments of course but I would never have any problem doing anything she told me to do deep down anyways. Although sometimes I ask a question and she tells me not to argue, though on occasion I stump her with a new idea and get her to smile at me. Then she peeks looks at me for the rest of the lesson.

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musiqientist
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Re: Inconsitent Relationship with Teacher
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2013, 10:31:27 PM »
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Boy, if I had a nickel for every student who's said that to me, and every time I've felt it in front of my teacher!
I never felt this way in front of my previous violin teacher. I was perfectly comfortable. I study violin as well. I am the very conscientious type but when I have prepared something well it’s usually hard for emotions like that to get past my barriers…much less affect me this bad. Things that I have perfected have become shreds in front her before. Surely even an audience….is not that scary?
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I'm was always sensitive to criticism, and I always want to impress. I recognize some of myself in you. What worked for me is finding the right teacher who put me at ease, took the pressure away, and made me feel like we were working 'on the same side'.
I want both I feel something would be missing if I had that kind of teacher, a bit too casual somehow. If I found a teacher who has been through it all like her and acquired the same qualities she has gotten through that experience AND puts you at ease than I might consider. It’s very unlikely. She also happens to be 10 minutes away from my house.
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It's also true that my time in the classical-training grinder desensitized me to criticism somewhat, but I'm not a fan of that approach. When I finally found a teacher who didn't put me ill-at-ease, I got better FASTER, not slower.
She’s not TOO into criticism either! Well…maybe because I don’t let it happen. And it’s just…my progress maximized when I started with her. She’s the type that makes you want to impress her, especially if you’re interested. She’s quite motherly too.

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The world is FULL of self-taught musicians who rejected teachers because they hated how it made them feel. I'm was one of them for a long time. Thing is, in the classical world it's nearly impossible to know what to do without feedback. I see that you have the desire, so a decent teacher (not just player, but teacher) should be able to help you. Conversely, I fear that sticking with this regimen may make you hate playing, which IMO is both tragedy and travesty when committed by the music education profession.

So, in short, don't let your natural desire be stifled, and find someone who can help you achieve your goals with joy. This does NOT mean someone who praises everything you do as perfect, but someone who lets you know the deal without grinding it too deep.
I don’t like the feelings I get sometimes, but I think it’s generated from my own discontent and I can’t find the source. (not going to a therapist) She says things that sting sometimes but it’s very clear that I derive happiness from lessons. She’s like my idol! And she’s a top teacher with a huge studio of University and private students.
I really could never hate playing….maybe bitter sometimes but not give up… I just feel like I have to face everything if I want answers and stuff not just slip away. Ermmm ok yeah I’m weird, get used to it ok?

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Re: Inconsitent Relationship with Teacher
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2013, 10:46:14 PM »
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Are you treating her as a teacher, from whom you learn things, or as an audience who you are trying to impress.

If the former, then it is your weaknesses and failings that you should be showing her.

If the latter, you're wasting your money.

Well I want to get good and tend to use her as a guide to whether or not I will make it. I want to be her star students in a sense because it means I have a chance. So I very much want to impress her but mustn’t you learn a lot and indefinitely everything she has to offer you in order to do that? Through her behavior towards me, it doesn’t appear as if she supports making more mistakes, she wants it to get perfect asap and nailed that way. She gets really serious when you make the same mistake the following week. Don’t you need the pressure to be able to perform perfect in order to succeed? I would think that it’s only beneficial to make a mistake in front of her if it’s a new one that you can’t fix yourself.
Bottom line is, it not her that I am trying to please in the end. She’s not the ultimate goal and a stepping stone, I may as well do it as I do feel close to her anyways.

If only she knew…I think she’d be happy. I guess I just think I’m not worth it.

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Ohhhh, I thought the problem got solved after I reposted it + gave the instructions...sorry. Cuz the other guy immediately got in. Erm it's there hope it's not too messy.

Christ, that's going to take me until tomorrow to read...I better get started. I may not finish tonight.

Well, you asked for it to be posted here. It's much easier to read in the original link.

Musiquentist, could you go back and edit the first of your quoting posts to make it more reasonable? If you click "Switch to Full Reply Screen" you will get options such as bolding, italics, and even colour. You could replace the words "quote" by creating actual quotes etc. As it is, it's close to unreadable.

Here's the gist of what I'm getting. That:

You are a youngish student (not yet adult) since you refer to your parents' wishes. You also take violin lessons and you are comfortable with that teacher, but not with this piano teacher. Your teacher seems to be one of those that have a kind of "prestige": (there seems to be a kind of formula going around - teaching in an institution that has clout such as conservatories, being a performer, everyone seems to think highly of them again with this prestige idea). You seem to have a very high regard for this teacher which places her really high, and you very low in value - one form that respect can take. Your main problem is that you are intimidated by this teacher. You want very badly to gain her approval, but when there is any positive word it is mitigated by things like "finally" which suggest a criticism. So you can't get the approval, and it keeps you on edge. You try to play perfectly in front of her, not show mistakes. You will also not open up to this teacher and talk about what is bothering you, because of the risk of disapproval - which is what you are avoiding everywhere in the first place.

Is that a correct summary?

Since you wrote that you have improved a lot since going to her, did you study with another teacher before? So you are not a beginner, but more like an intermediate student or beyond? How many years have you studied piano - what kinds of things have you reached, and what kinds of things does this teacher want of you?

The first thing you have to do is to stop revering this teacher in the manner that you do because this kind of respect is messing things up for you. Change your goal from trying to please the teacher, to trying to grow as a musician. This does two things. It changes your relationship with this teacher instantly. It means you are working on the same thing (your progress), collaborating, and she is essentially working for you. It also means you have aligned your goals: her goal is to raise your playing abilities, and yours is too. It also changes this feeling of being judged and falling short. This is also the attitude that most good teachers are looking for. They don't want their students to "please" them. They want their students to take their studies seriously. (Which you do - but the wanting to please is getting in the way).

You may also have a wrong idea about what lessons are about. They are not about producing a perfect work. They are about shaping your skills, which by definition must be imperfect, because you are a student. Piano is a physical activity, and the body and senses have to grow into skills. It's no like math. where there is a right answer that you "should" have if you've studied: 1+2=3, and there is no reason why you should come up with the wrong answer. But in piano, you can miss the trill or flub the note regardless of how hard you practised. And that is expected.

Again, if you shift your purpose from pleasing the teacher to perfecting the skill, then your attention will be 100% on the task which will automatically improve your playing. You almost have to "ignore" the teacher as if she were not important, in order to achieve what you both want - better playing.

Your teacher's apparent dissatisfaction may reflect how she works on music herself, if she is a good musician. No matter how well you bring your music, you can always bring it a bit higher, and she may have that attitude toward her other music project - your growth. Of course there is another principle: you can "perfect" things too much and spoil them - know when to stop. Like, you can intimidate your student by going too far. But in some teaching philosophies, keeping a student on edge and slightly scared of not being good enough might actually be a strategy to get them to do especially well and thank the teacher later in hindsight. I don't know if I agree with that, but it does exist.

My editing will be within several posts, the site won't let me do otherwise.

Inconsitent Relationship with Teacher

Hello Piano Street! This is my first post but I have been doing a lot of browsing on the forums, particularly in the teaching forum and think it's safe to post my thoughts on this site so I'll probably be around from time to time. I'm a piano student, 17 years old. Nice to meet you! ^^
*bows*

---------------

So the concern I have at the moment us that I feel very distant from my piano teacher as my interaction with her is very important to me as somebody who started late on the piano but absolutely loves it and will inevitably study it sometime in the not so distant future.

I feel nervous to play in front of her and never able to play nearly as good as when I'm at home. The difference is really significant; I'm just afraid to play in front of her and very scared of making small changes to the music for the first time in front of her. Like if she tells me to add a trill, I'll want to do it at home first multiple times on my own before showing her, it feel scary to do otherwise somehow. I'm afraid to make that kind of mistake in front of her because it shows incompetency and her personality is quite elitist. This all feels foreign to me because these kinds of things would never have been a problem for me just a couple years ago.

I care very much for the piano and I am not sure if she knows or cares, her response shows mixed opinions and I'm not sure what she actually thinks of me. I wonder if she knows that I am doing my best to progress very fast and I would never mention such a thing to her but I think I'm doing well! At the moment I've been playing for about a year solid and am currently working on a Mozart Concerto, 2 grade 9 solos, 2 Chopin etudes, and an easier piece by Bach. I love these pieces I'm playing and I think that they are... hard! I have no problem with this but she doesn't take that into consideration period. I'm not sure but I think she might think I have too much ego, that's not how I feel about myself however.

I care very much for the piano and I am not sure if she knows or cares, her responses show mixed opinions and the logic doesn't add up. She seems to be good at reading me though which is somewhat disturbing, seeing as how I am purposefully difficult to read. This is all really depressing for me because music is always on mind and I am extremely interesting and always thirsty to learn more. I can research and learn about classical music history all day, I can listen all day, play all day. Most of the time I'd describe her as stoic, unyielding, and criticizing. I want to get really good and I know that's difficult, so I need to know whether or not that's possible. I want to know what my potential is. Wish she was warmer and more approachable, I'm jealous of the idea that somebody has a more mentoring figure as a teacher. What's more frustrating is that on the outside she is really hospitable and motherly but I know that is you were to approach her directly with an issue she would instantly put on another face. I feel that if she is doing this on purpose that it's all really unnecessary because I'm not a 10 year old being forced to take lessons. I wonder why she does what she does; in the end I'm afraid to tell her my thoughts.

Anyways, in case somebody was going to suggest that I find somebody else I'll go ahead and say that I cannot leave this teacher. I want things to get better with her because I know that if they do, it will be worth it! She inspires my very much. She has a PH.D from Juilliard; she is an authentic musician who had a musical family. She was a prodigy and started at age 2 and has perfect pitch, she can instantly memorize any piece of music and play it by ear. I always feel like I very much want to impress her.

So, I hope I get some replies on your thoughts and what anybody thinks I should do. Any advice is appreciated. I think the writing in this post might be to general and confusing, I was going to make a longer and more concise post but I couldn't wait any longer, these things have been on my mind for a while. I have a lot of other posts to make so you might see some things later on that are related to this. If you PM me, I'll have more specific things to say on the matter and can answer questions. That would be appreciated; I don't want to list specifics in case she sees this.

Thanks for reading. I hope this post isn't offensive, I feel like a whiner.

And, hello to you...equally deep bow.

If you look for my posts (and there are way too many) you'll see that the majority are about what you describe...a teacher who is intimidating to me and who seems to be constantly criticizing me.

I tried to "break up" with her and at what I thought would be my final lesson she told me that I was one of the 4 or 5 students of her 50 who actually cared about the piano. I also learned from the Director of the program that she (my teacher) was so pleased by my progress that she thanks the Director for assigning me to her.

Unless everyone is blowing smoke up my a*s..(which is ample and hard to miss), I took away from this: If you care, you are going to be nervous. If she cares, she is going to be critical..because she feels you are capable of learning more and caring enough to work hard to achieve more.

Are you treating her as a teacher, from whom you learn things, or as an audience who you are trying to impress.

If the former, then it is your weaknesses and failings that you should be showing her.

If the latter, you're wasting your money.

If you want things to get better, you will need to accept that change needs to happen. Part of that change will come from you. With change also may come doubt, uncertainty, loss of a sense of custom, questions. Not at all bad things if they are put in the context of growth.

Do you consider yourself to be a sensitive person? In general, do you deal well with criticism?

What is puzzling to me is that many of the arguments you make suggest a degree of incompatibility between student and teacher. Yet you are very ardently insistent on continuing on with this teacher. Are you in any way related to this teacher?

Learning involves an element of vulnerability. The more vulnerable you avail yourself to your teacher, the more willing you are to express your weaknesses, the more you will be able to benefit from the teaching. If you feel an inadequacy in playing something your teacher asks of you, you need to bring that into the open not sweep it under the rug. Your teacher can help you better if you openly admit to that inadequacy and nervousness in playing. A good teacher will not shame or belittle you for doing so, but show you how to overcome your inadequacy.

You don't go to lessons just to have your teacher constantly say you are doing a great job without need for further comment. You go to lessons to learn. You may learn things that seem foreign, things that make you feel uncomfortable, and things that you absolutely disagree with, and you may also have "light bulb" moments when your teacher says something and the puzzle comes together all at once. You go to lessons to learn. You are not under any obligation to agree with everything your teacher says, or do everything your teacher asks of you, but you must take it all into thought.



Boy, if I had a nickel for every student who's said that to me, and every time I've felt it in front of my teacher!

In all seriousness, though, I think you need a new teacher.

I'm was always sensitive to criticism, and I always want to impress. I recognize some of myself in you. What worked for me is finding the right teacher who put me at ease, took the pressure away, and made me feel like we were working 'on the same side'. It's also true that my time in the classical-training grinder desensitized me to criticism somewhat, but I'm not a fan of that approach. When I finally found a teacher who didn't put me ill-at-ease, I got better FASTER, not slower.

The world is FULL of self-taught musicians who rejected teachers because they hated how it made them feel. I'm was one of them for a long time. Thing is, in the classical world it's nearly impossible to know what to do without feedback. I see that you have the desire, so a decent teacher (not just player, but teacher) should be able to help you. Conversely, I fear that sticking with this regimen may make you hate playing, which IMO is both tragedy and travesty when committed by the music education profession.

So, in short, don't let your natural desire be stifled, and find someone who can help you achieve your goals with joy. This does NOT mean someone who praises everything you do as perfect, but someone who lets you know the deal without grinding it too deep.

Yeah, I think it's a bit different between us though. It's not that open and she doesn't constantly criticize me but there's quite a bit of that and a lack of praise at what I think would make most teachers very happy. I cannot satisfy her, this is all fine with me but I do need to know where I stand. I also think I am intimidating to her as well but that doesn't seem to bother her as much, I wish it did. I often feel that we are playing a mind game but I am not sure. Nothing would suggest so but things spon that are logically inconsistent to what things appear to be. That's what I'm trying to figure out here.


My piano teacher would never offer up a thing, though when I tell others about my progress they are very surprised. I would ask her if this is hard and she would say no, because she could do it at 9 years old, contrary to such statements however, when I make her happy she says "good (my name) and then cuts it off before she finishes and says "finally" instead. Then she starts getting energized and very pushy, beyond my limts. When I say I can't do something as in, we'll never be able to get it up to tempo, she simply says "you have to" and forces me to play. When I already have a lot she says "We need something else." And I say that I was thinking of doing this etude and then she says "I wanna see it." Then I tell her I haven't practiced it and don't like sight reading in front of people and she makes me play it anyways, then she says "your suppose to practice it" when she never assigned it to begin with. I tell her 5 pieces at once is a lot and she says "your lucky" than I say, "I'm not a concert pianist!" and she said "I'm training you to be an excellent student."

I know now you'd think that the answer to this thread is all clear but, this is a really good event that occurred in a lesson, sometimes things don't appear this way at all. Her mood seems to fluctuate with it too but I'm not sure it's her mood because that doesn't make sense either.
I tried to break up with her once because my parents were causing me stress and I told her that if I quit for just 2 months can she take me back and she said. "Sorry can't play games with you. No won't take you back. sorry you have issues whatever they are..." Goodbye (my name) ... I answered her back saying I'm not playing games and that I was serious and if I could come the following week, she said "Well I hope so." Then I asked her if I'd done anything wrong and she said "Em, I love you very much and want you to be happy." When I saw her that week and asked her about she said because she'll fill my spot and to let me know if I wanna quit. It was so cold but...it doesn't add up. She just changed my lesson time to an hour and can't I be put back on the waiting list? If she was playing a trick it would be an easy one to do because it's obvious in the first e-mail that I won't quit if I can't come back. She also tricked me once saying she was gonna move so she's capable of it. Her schedule seems very flexible and don't students go on vacation? 2 months? She won't get another student?? There were also other things that were logically inconsistent with this but I can't remember...there are too many things and I see her every week.



I am nervous and I don’t know if she can sense it. But she is the type that would think you should be. I don’t like how part of this is because her other students aren’t serious at all, though it only bothers me because she should know it’s not like that with me. She shows mixed signals once again, of knowing and not knowing this… I have listed specific examples above and really would prefer not to as the above is quite obviously us but it doesn’t look like the thread will go anywhere if I don’t which is why I like PM. )))))) Nobody has done it yet. I have 10 pages of things I've remembered up that hold value.

She has been teaching since she was 11, she is a renowned professor at has been on the faculty for nearly all the Universities in my region, she has also been the principal pianist for most of the local orchestras. Everybody knows her as a teacher and would say that you are ultimately blessed to have such a teacher, she is one with the caliber that has the ability to help you enter one of the best conservatories, there’s nothing she cannot teach you. She seems to be the type of teacher that most successful classical musician had, I think my first post was too emotional and gave off the wrong idea. I really adore her. I think she might be trying to teach me humility now because she’s under the false impressions that I need it. == She might think all people need it and perhaps even she did when she was young but doesn’t recognize that I am in the minority. She is a go getter, if something stands in her way she pushes harder, that’s the way she is. She doesn’t soften. I’m scared to give her info. I feel she might get invasive but…shouldn’t I let that occur??? I don’t know….
I think the incompatibility is mainly my problem and a misunderstanding. She is a sweet person on the inside and very charming, just quite self-preservative I think. I can’t think of a specific personality that would do better than what I have now, it’s not anything that..concrete. I’m excited to see her every week. I count down the days until it’s time for our lesson, I want it to come but also dread it because after it’s over I have another week to wait.
I think she may just be expecting me to take the mixed signs that she gives me to be positives and demands for improvement like a machine. She doesn’t mind that I’m blind… I think she might be thinking "just listen to me and be grateful for anything that apparently sounds like a good thing." Either I let it all into the open or it stays this way… ehhh is anybody still following me?


There’s just something about her though… It’s so mushy if I let her in like that. Yet, I want the challenge of managing to stand up to her so I don’t want to switch because I know staying with her will end up being more rewarding. I sometimes think I admire her for not getting drawn in.


That will reveal my secrets, I’m not willing to do that yet somehow, I think for fear that I cannot become a great pianist and incorporate it in my career. I feel like….she did all these great things and made it, but I’m not even close. So why would it happen for me? She speaks a lot of achievements and is elitist as I said. I’m already in a sensitive spot and just the idea that she won’t be gentle is really scary. Sometimes she is when I’ve done really well but I’m not sure how harsh she’ll get if I let her know. I mean she’s already so… but the again that’s only sometimes.



I have all those moments of course but I would never have any problem doing anything she told me to do deep down anyways. Although sometimes I ask a question and she tells me not to argue, though on occasion I stump her with a new idea and get her to smile at me. Then she peeks looks at me for the rest of the lesson.

I never felt this way in front of my previous violin teacher. I was perfectly comfortable. I study violin as well. I am the very conscientious type but when I have prepared something well it’s usually hard for emotions like that to get past my barriers…much less affect me this bad. Things that I have perfected have become shreds in front her before. Surely even an audience….is not that scary?


I want both I feel something would be missing if I had that kind of teacher, a bit too casual somehow. If I found a teacher who has been through it all like her and acquired the same qualities she has gotten through that experience AND puts you at ease than I might consider. It’s very unlikely. She also happens to be 10 minutes away from my house.


She’s not TOO into criticism either! Well…maybe because I don’t let it happen. And it’s just…my progress maximized when I started with her. She’s the type that makes you want to impress her, especially if you’re interested. She’s quite motherly too.


I don’t like the feelings I get sometimes, but I think it’s generated from my own discontent and I can’t find the source. (not going to a therapist) She says things that sting sometimes but it’s very clear that I derive happiness from lessons. She’s like my idol! And she’s a top teacher with a huge studio of University and private students.
I really could never hate playing….maybe bitter sometimes but not give up… I just feel like I have to face everything if I want answers and stuff not just slip away. Ermmm ok yeah I’m weird, get used to it ok?

Well I want to get good and tend to use her as a guide to whether or not I will make it. I want to be her star students in a sense because it means I have a chance. So I very much want to impress her but mustn’t you learn a lot and indefinitely everything she has to offer you in order to do that? Through her behavior towards me, it doesn’t appear as if she supports making more mistakes, she wants it to get perfect asap and nailed that way. She gets really serious when you make the same mistake the following week. Don’t you need the pressure to be able to perform perfect in order to succeed? I would think that it’s only beneficial to make a mistake in front of her if it’s a new one that you can’t fix yourself.
Bottom line is, it not her that I am trying to please in the end. She’s not the ultimate goal and a stepping stone, I may as well do it as I do feel close to her anyways.

If only she knew…I think she’d be happy. I guess I just think I’m not worth it.

Ladies and gentlemen everything that is posted by me starting with the colorful post is that thread having been edited. Gosh it took forever. It is in order except for this post that I am responding to so please read it all, it took like 1 hour the site was screwing with me.

The summary is pretty good.
To answer specific questions, I have studied with another teacher for a few months before moving to her. I've been playing around a year total. Could you read the whole thing since I've made it neat? It'll help, can you make a new response after it and see if your perspectives changed? Your questions make it seem like reading it will clear it up. I like where your heading...

I am also in the other forum and read the dialogue there but was busy at the time, so I am familiar with it.

Please do read my long post carefully, especially the suggestions, because many of the things you describe are not that new. That said, I agree with those who said you should never feel intimidated by a teacher. My gut feeling is that she is deliberately keeping you on edge, but I have no way of knowing.

What you are describing fits more with what might happen between an advanced, well-trained student going for a profession - because that kind of behaviour does happen there, but not for someone who has been playing a year.

I repeat for the 3rd time - I cannot access the other website, or else I would have just read it there.

Yes, it was a very good post and I will respond thoroughly tomorrow it's 1 am here. That's the thing I must figure out why she's doing it and I don't know if you read that part but in the post i list what I'm playing and I'm not sure but according to my research they are rather advanced pieces. I have a huge list of hints she's dropped and I really wanna sniff it out.

WELL READ IT NOW!!!!! Lol

I don't think you realize that it's almost 5:00 AM and I have to get up tomorrow (well, today) at 7:30.

You've been doing what??!! After playing for a year? Did you sleep at all, or eat, during this year?

What an awesome thread!

Musi,

I think you should stop trying to "read your teacher's mind". The teacher works for YOU, you don't work for the teacher.

The length of your posts makes me think you're over-thinking the situation.

If the teacher's behavior is causing you to spend so much time agonizing over things like this, you should just talk to her bluntly about it.

You, or your parents, are paying this teacher to help your musical development. If something is getting in the way of that, it should be discussed.

Forget that the teacher went to Juilliard. That means she was a great student. Now, I'm sure she wants to be a great teacher.

Tell her what you need from her in order to feel comfortable. Try to sum it up in specific suggestions/issues that she can act on.

If the basic problem is that you're in awe of someone who went to Juilliard, find a teacher who didn't.

thought the topic title looked interesting, so clicked on it.

Now I am losing the will to live!

Yup! Every so often we find a thread that is "special", and stands out from the rest in some particular, unique aspect. This is one such thread.

KeyString -- you have the patience of Job!
Ed

Without wading through ALL the responses - and since I am barely a beginner myself so cannot respond "authoritatively", I would like to offer some generalities about teaching/coaching/instructing from other fields.

I believe the role of a teacher/instructor/coach is to help us toward our goals.
What our goals ARE may need formal definition early on.
(rock, classical, blues, accompany, etc.)
An early "lesson" should be an evaluation, i.e. where the student is now AT.
From there, basically a plan for getting from where the student IS to where they want to be.
Whether or not this is written, discussed, etc. may be a matter of "teaching style".
I have to believe it is in the teacher's head and drives the instruction, i.e. when a teachers says "I think some xyz would be helpful" that suggestion is the teachers plan to produce progress. SOME teachers may go into great detail to explain how/why, some may not.
"Scales are good for you" is an example of minimal explanation

I suggest you ignore the teacher's own level of musicianship - it is essentially not relevant.
It is not her role to impress you, it is not your role to impress her.
Her role is to help you get from where you are to where you want to be.
To abstract this from piano consider the following;
Tiger Woods is probably not at all impressed by his coach's golf swing, however his coach CAN and DOES identify opportunities for improvement in Woods' swing, helps toward achieving that/those improvement(s) too.
OK, that is an example of a top level coach with a top level player, point is the coach doesn't need to be "better" than the student in order to "help".

Ooops, I have a time commitment, gotta run.

Before I say anything more, can you answer me this question: "Is your ultimate aim to become a professional musician?"

Like

I'm not in New York, I don't know the time there.

I want to double major in piano performance and biophysics which is my current major and then after that hopefully enter a major conservatory. After that, hopefully get to perform.

Is this sarcasm? It's so awful!! The whole first page is nonsense! Hope it didn't make me get less views.

Is that what this is all about? Getting views?

What's so good and unique about it?



Yeah, still finding time for a good reply. Hoping to get more responses like key strings.

No? I want more responses!!! Like....key strings. I've seen such great threads full of stuff that helps the OP ... I want one, it'll help.

Threads get neglected sometimes, I feel like I'm in peril. Are there really people stupid enough who would look for more views and nothing else?

By what? MAKING THREADS? Lol

I can't, I need to know what's going on. And I can't tell her, she's probably deliberately keeping in the dark so...

Why...

You are already getting good replies here and over at the other forum. But let me tell you a story,

I have a teacher similar to yours, she never praise me and I always tried to impress her every lesson. I thought that I am the most advance student in her class. Then the student recital came, and indeed I was the most advance student who gets to play last and has the most difficult pieces. to cut the story short I gave the most disastrous performance out of her entire students, I glanced behind me as soon as I "finish" and she covered her face with her hands. I was so embarassed I went home and locked myself in my room the entire day, my reputation of her model student is tarnished. Next lesson she goes, hmm your performance... It was interesting.. but at least we know now what we need to work on. From then on I stopped trying to impress my teacher, break down my barrier, and really just play and try to show all my weaknesses so she can correct them. all my nervousness playing in front of her has disappear, she knows what my level is and everything is now transparent. I recently performed again in a competition (after much hesitation) and won second place.

She is still an enigmatic lady. But I don't care anymore, I'm paying her to learn to improve my playing, what she thinks of me is not of importance.

Unfortunately, you don't get to know that.



Okay, before reading on, sit down, chill out, and put on your more rational and dispassionate frame of mind. Because you'll need that to figure out what you should be really doing.

It's hard to know where the truth lies, in that there are two sides to every story. We're hearing your side and also drawing impressions about you from the way you are telling your side.

I'm not a professional, but I gather it's a difficult row to hoe.

I don't like the teacher-student dynamic that you've described, and if you were just intending to ultimately play for pleasure, I would categorize it as dysfunctional.

Putting the best possible spin on the dynamic you've described, I would say that your teacher is showing tough love. Your posts come off as incredibly insecure. Maybe I'm projecting too much of my own personality into what I'm reading.

Thing is, as a performer, you don't get the luxury of being insecure. Well, that's not quite right. You can be an insecure wreck, but in public and professionally, you need to project confidence. You've got to convince whoever is going to hire you or represent you as an artist or promote you that you are the real deal, that you've got chops, and that you can sell your music. If you don't seem confident in yourself, how the heck can you expect other people to be confident in you?

Furthermore, your inner critic is going to always be nagging away. Even if you perform smashingly, it'll tell you, "Well, they didn't really like that; they're just being polite." For at least a while, you're NOT going to know whether you'll make it and you're NOT going to know whether people like your music, and, in the meantime, this means 1) work like heck on your chops and musicality and 2) fake confidence until you make it. It means performing with self-confidence even if in your heart of hearts you think everyone hates your music.

Looking at your teacher's actions in the best light, her telling you "If you quit for a while, I won't take you back" is a way of saying "The world isn't going to consider it a great tragedy if you give up piano and come back two weeks later and go 'Musiqientist, we were wrong to let you quit! Come back, come back...'" The world will just move on to something else. If you're going after a career as a performer, then you have to pursue it under your own volition and in the face of many, many things to get discouraged about. And, in the context of a career, if you, say, canceled a scheduled gig because you weren't feeling motivated, would the folks putting up the money for publicity and the venue be at all interested in giving you a second chance?

In short, you need to man up.

This means working really hard on your chops. It means listening to your teacher's guidance. It means going into your lessons -welcoming- criticisms and nitpicking. It means not giving up, and it means picking yourself up after you fall. Every time you fall.

Given all the above, it's possible that this teacher may not be the right fit for you, at which point a certain calculus enters the equation.

Will having studied under this teacher and earned a recommendation from this teacher help you get into the conservatory of your choice? If you were to alienate this teacher, would it harm your chances of getting into the conservatory of your choice? If it is a poor fit, will you be able to develop the technique and musicality you need to become a professional musician?

To be a professional, you quite simply need to own it.

YOU SPELLED MY NAME WRONG YOU-

That is okay, I spelled people's name wrong all the time.

Yes, it's accurate. But I think that it's due to some sort of misunderstanding that occurred which I cannot remember due to multiple complications having taken place in my life in a very short period of time. So I'm confused. I think I feel that I must gain her approval if she is not giving it and is not purposefully refusing to give it...than why am I not getting it?




I had one teacher previously, I don't think I'm beginner. I don't know what she wants. I do my best to cover what she wants which is a lot. When I make it, she usually doesn't respond. If not shell just critique this and that. She should know that my work ethic would improve if she was frank. She's very into certain traditional ways of doing things, she's more into what's right than what makes more progress at times. She thinks that if I don't fit into the correct mold than I'm doing something wrong.



I do try to grow as a musician and I think it's going fantastic in one year. I sometimes think I need to cut music research and add it to practice time! Lol I just long for something more, someone to share with. She's the only one that seems to fit that. Maybe I'm just lonely! I'll actually add that I have no friends. Rofl.

..but I want to make her happy! Yes that's true, but I think maybe they like it when their students want to please them because that means they'll take things seriously. We are collaborating great, she's smart enough to...mess with me on the sidelines without harming communication. I'm beginning to piece it all together though.

She's essentially working for me but I mean... I'm not an adult yet so I can't just go like "I'm paying so..." I mean some hint of that messes it all up. Is she doing anything unusual?



Yes, sometimes she also says "no mistakes this time." But that might just be because I, a student.

I'm going to try multiple things starting very soon just to see how she'll react which I, very excited about.



Yeah, this makes perfect sense. Sounds like her. When she's practicing something to perform she's particularly energized and tells me all about it and she stays very focused through the whole lesson.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Does anybody think I'm infatuated with her? Somebody mentioned it in the other forum. I'm concerned... XX"

Btw I have all the responses in a notebook, needa type up. Goingoinggoinggg~~

If I gave you a lot more intel you could know with time? It seems like you could. There's a lot of them, I think it's doable.



Yeah. I like it in some ways because i feel efficient, sometimes feels unfair.

No I'm fact for most of it I didn't even manage 30 minutes a day. I consider myself learning for a year averaging about 20 minutes. That's going to jump to 3 hours minimum now though... Technically it just hit 2 years but with the first year I studied violin and piano with the same teacher and majority of the time we never reached the piano because she was a violinist and would kill all the time with only violin. When we did reach it we would have 15 minutes... I probably practiced 4 times the whole year... Lol so I think it's more logical to say one year. I couldn't even read the base clef until one year ago ... I was too busy for ,
music unfortunately. Shouldn't have let it happen.

No not until I'm a good player, then it will be safe. There is not such thing as over thinking. I can figure it out. There's a reason for everything. Anybody would agonize over my impossible situation. Nothing is getting in the way of the actual playing, I'm still practicing what she says.

My violin teacher didn't go to Juilliard. I was still in awe.

Telling her to make things comfortable is weak....

More dramatic threads comin'

Topics include:
- why my violin teacher dropped me. (I'm serious!)
-which instrument to specialize in
-do I have a chance to join an orchestra despite starting at 16.
-how to stop being jealous of early starters
-scared to practice in front of parents
..... Yep ..

That's pretty inspiring.

Will you be well rested in the near future??? :pppp

Good morning, Musiqientist. I am sorry to break it to you, but to me everything that you describe sounds great. GREAT !!! It appears to me that you have found a fabulous teacher. She sounds like a lovely person and you seem to me to have a wonderful relationship with her.







Definitely ...

... and I offer you my felicitations! You have every reason to be infatuated ... and every unreason too! Your feelings are strong and complex, even contradictory ... but don't lose courage. You need courage in life, you know.

== yes or no. Give a serious explanation too because what you, listed above is not enough. Thing is my feelings tend to be strong and intense with most people in my life and I do that quite purposefully...I CAN'T BE IN LOVE WITH EVERYONE CAN I??? X_X erm yeah anyways glad your less pessimistic about me staying with her. :pp

I like strong feelings. View enneagram type 4. That's what I am. Psychology 2nd hobby.

I was afraid of that. But surely there is a way to know if I have a decent chance?



I guess you could say I'm not ultimately playing for pleasure when there is a desire to have a career in it. I wanna be a concert pianist.



I think they look insecure too, this is such an awkward topic for me somehow.



Yeah I think maybe that's why I admire her. She's the musician personality. Drama, facade, and everything. I'll be confident when I catch up to people playing 12 years to my 1 year.

Yeah that made me think she's not interested in my growth or development at all. And why should she? When she has taught so many students of all kinds? When she told me that it's like she confirmed my fears of never being able to be a musician because i started late. Think that if I can't even please her, why would the world be interested?

But at the same time, it didn't sound truthful from her. Isn't it rude to talk like that even if say I was leaving? No goodbye, no questions? Nothing?



Yeah, I definitely need to change. But I need to pick an instrument first!



I do not want to leave her, I'm pretty attached to her honestly. She already feels like a significant other. I feel this way to all the music teachers I've had for a sustained period of time and it takes me a long time to get used to them. I just broke in with her, I think it's going to be fine. It has improved so drastically much.



Potentially, I know that of I get to a certain stage she will be very committed. I don't think she's aware of my goals. Is 1 year a long wait to tell her?



You mean to perform right?

NONO!!!! I mean in love like a crush!!!!!

The best reply you can give is to work with anything that is pertinent. If it's "Concentrate on the task and ignore the teacher." then try doing that and see what happens. If it improves things then you know you have one solution. If it doesn't, then you know it wasn't on track.

Studying an instrument by and large involves working on smaller, ordinary seeming tasks one by one - such as not flubbing that C# in D major or concentrating on lifting the pedal at the right time. Broad concepts and how we feel about things both do play a role, but the way to actually move forward is through the concrete. So anyone with some experience will be looking for actions and results (positive and negative).

(Btw, I'm reading these in order and am about 2 pages back right now.)

(Having learned the importance of counting these things from Polyphonist - I think it's 18, but my eyesight is bad.

Cum grano salis, PP, ablative case and all.

Continue with your teacher for piano and seek a counselor or psychologist for help with some of your other issues.

Yes, this is the best advice.

I agree.

Agreed.

There's like 2 of those issues where I might not post here and just go to a psych but so,e of them like which instrument to specialize in are gonna be here. I don't think chances are that a psych knows things like that.

I don't get it.

Yeah your right I was definitely looking for some concrete advice later on anyways. I think at first I wanted to have an emotional release . :p I wanted some concepts. 'M a scientist me likes concepts. About that "try to ignore the teacher" I'm a bit shy to show my interest.



Yes thank you, take your time.

You are correct.

And what's more, you don't need good eyesight to count them: simply copy and paste them into some random text box (a document you can edit, a browser window, the "Quick Reply" window on PW) and then put your cursor at the end of the row and count how many times you press the delete key before all of them are gone. (I'm a genius, right? )

Are you still sleepy and cranky?

No, I'm trying to think of something to say that others haven't already said. Maybe I'll just make a compilation of tidbits from other people's posts.

By the way, where did you get that I was cranky?

Elementary, my dear! And at risk of repeating myself, I offer you my felicitations! Perfectly normal, and very encouraging. In all sincerity, I am very happy for you. Music is about human relationships, about communication. Music is love. With this teacher the door to music has opened for you ... don't be a ninny and push it shut. Place your entire confidence in this woman.

It is very important, don't lose courage. You need courage in life, you know.

No it wasn't rude at all. It was you, the rude one, playing the capricious little gifted teenager. She called your bratty bluff!

I'm telling you, this lady sounds great to me. Hang on tight, kiddo!

I was just kidding mr. Grouch. Hehehe

What does that mean!!!



No that was what I thought you weren't answering my question!!! I mean like romantic love because its not normal to want to smooch a 65 year old!!!! And I don't know if that's what they mean by clutch!!!



Wasn't planning on doing otherwise...

Wasn't playing anything!! I was gonna stop and I really did have difficult circumstances. And how did she know? Don't all music teachers have goodbye lessons? I think she did with some other students. You know...or something. What make you think she was playing me? I've been wondering about that forever.

Concentrate on your music. Concentrate on specific things in your music as you practice and as you play in front of your teacher. If you do that everything else falls into place (assuming a decent teacher). Do not concentrate on the teacher or what the teacher is thinking. Do not worry about "being" a good musician, appearing to be a good musician, appearing to be a musician with promise, appearing to be a musician with no promise because you started late. Musicians don't spend any time "being". They spend their time "doing". Concentrate on doing the music. Begin with whatever your teacher has stressed. If you want to have a relationship, have that relationship with your work and your music.

And with that I'm done.

Ok thank you for your help. Would you say it's not good to have a relationship? You seem against it.

People here tend to answer the questions for which they have some expertise.

These answers are going to be good ones, mostly, because a lot of people here are pretty competent.

But in your case, the personal issues may be a bigger obstacle than the musical ones at this stage in your life. I think you may have to deal with them first. You can let the musical studies continue while you put other priorities where they belong. See the psych.

People here tend to answer the questions for which they have some expertise.



I noticed.



You mean like affects of adolescence or that I just appear to have a lot of issues. It's just... I see people discussing personal things on here and other forums all the time. I will see a psych when I make time to schedule and appointment and when I finish 25 units of college....... My heads turning.

Well, not really.

What was nice about it to begin with.

Exactly.

Oh so the earlier commend were all sarcasm? Sorry I'm a scientist + have no friends and therefore have no social skills. :pp

Are you azn then?

Good morning.

There is nothing wrong with that. You want to think of yourself as "not normal"? Well, silly but nothing wrong with that either! I disagree with TimR's and others' statements that you have personal issues and that you need to see a psych. All that you write sounds fine to me. You seem like a great kid, and I'm happy to know you!




I also don't know what they mean by "clutch" !

Yes you were, and to me it appears that you still are ... and if there is any obstacle to your progress, there it is!

I agree heartily with Keystring's statements and I am happy to repeat them.

Except for the following:



You do have a relationship with your teacher, and to me it sounds like a great relationship. She will let you know the day that there is a problem.

Maybe, but you have a great sense of humour!

Oh my goodness. This thread is overwhelming.

I wanted to add my voice to those saying you should talk to a good therapist. The impression that I got from this thread is that you're spinning off in 20 different directions. I also think you've received a ton of advice that is exactly, 100% correct - but it seems to bounce off of you as you spin in a new direction. You keep saying, "tell me more!" and "what about this!" and even when Keystring said she was done responding, you tagged on a few more questions in your response.

A good therapist will help you understand how you process information, how you interact with others, why you seek approval, how you can be more confident and not need that approval, how to work more effectively towards your goals, etc.

I had one other thought for you, on this idea of wanting to know if you have the potential to be a pro at this.

The people who are successful in really difficult, competitive fields - don't generally ask people if they're going to be successful. They don't spend their time looking for approval or affirmation of their choices.

They CHOOSE it. They say, "I am going to be THIS." And then, they work their butts off to do whatever it takes to make it happen.

It's like the story of the guy who wanted to be a violinist. He had the chance to meet and play for a famous violinist who he admired greatly.

After playing he said, "Please, I respect you so much. I have to know... do I have what it takes to do this professionally?"

And the master said, "I am so sorry to tell you, but no, you do not. You should give up now." The man gave up, went off and got an ordinary job, and decades later, had the chance to talk to the famous violinist again.

This time he said, "You should never have told me to give up! I might have succeeded! You had no way of knowing if I would be any good" - and the famous violinist replied, "If you had what it took, you would have ignored what I said and kept going anyway."

I know, getting positive feedback from our teachers and those we respect is important, and encouraging. But if you choose to do this professionally, that has to come from inside of you. Having someone tell you that you're good enough is really pretty meaningless - it doesn't make the path easier, or the hours longer. It doesn't give you any shortcuts, the ONLY way you get to succeed is by working incredibly hard and staying focusing on achieving your goal.

OK, I had one more thought for you. At 17, you're on the verge of adulthood. I can't really tell from these posts exactly what the issue is with your teacher, but, I can tell you what your options, as an adult, are to deal with it.

1. You accept things are they are. Don't try to change the teacher, and stop going over and over this in your head. Make the best of what you have.

2. You talk to your teacher. You might ask for more feedback, or more encouragement, or whatever. You should know, just because you ask, doesn't mean you get. She might not be willing to give what you want/need, or might be unable to. But, it allows you to have an adult conversation about your needs, and how you are interacting.

3. You find a new teacher who you are able to work better with.

That's it! You get to pick which option is best for this situation. And you might mess up, because that's part of what happens to ALL of us, even when we get older. We're all constantly learning how to interact with others, how to be patient with others, how to help each other out, and what works.

Good luck to you.

Try giving up the need for her approval. Approval-seeking behavior can be very destructive to your own happiness.

This teacher is there to help you. If she still works with you, she obviously thinks you are doing a good enough job. And you can only be helped in the long run by working with someone you admire.

WHAT'S NORMAL ABOUT A 17 YEAR OLD HAVING SEXUALS FEELINGS TO A .... =="

Of course I'm a great kid, tell me something I don't already know. :pp I'm a brat, I'm a pianist, I'm rude, I'm a SCIENTIST, I'm too good for people my age, I'm gifted, I'm psyched, I have a clutch, I'm azn, I can read minds, I make special threads, I'm popular online, I spell people's name right, (apology not accepted, prepare to be further chastised in the future poly) I play violin, I'm capricious, I'm people pleasing. I mean look!!! Got the whole package in this one!!!

If I was your student would you like me? HMMMMMMM????.....

A damsel in distress results in overwhelming threads. :pp



Yeah coz the more I'm given the more I have to analyze. It can't hurt. You can always have questions! I see it as a good thing!



Yeah but I don't just want approval! I want it to be true! To have earned it. When I get it, if I get it, I want it to have come from inside! I don't mind the hours, I enjoy them. But yeah, the staying focused thing...



I have been!



Thank you.

Thanks. Wow, I know you and you probably know my teacher! This freakes me out. I mean this site is obviously popular. What if she's seen....

You never know...

Interesting topic. The only problem is that this subject is not exactly in line with the purpose of this forum. I have even received a moderator report speculating as to whether it's even healthy.

Musiqientist, I'll just ask this.. Are you looking to make this teacher your girlfriend? Have you ever had a girlfriend? If you suddenly became acquainted with a young lady who became your girlfriend, would impressing this teacher lose its importance?

You do not even have to answer these questions on the forum. It's none of my business anyway. I only ask in order to prompt you to ask them of yourself.

I remember that when I was 17, EVERYTHING seemed like it was a life or death emergency. Then as you get older you suddenly realize that many of these "emergencies" were trivial. I guess it's all about perspective. They say live and learn, and there is a lot of wisdom to that.

Do you have a trusted, wise, older friend you can talk to about this? Someone who is level headed and does not seem impulsive, one who enjoys a measure of success in life and is balanced with family, friends, and career? If so, I would advise talking to this friend. That's one way I stayed sane at 17!

For now I will leave the topic open, but I am really close to closing it.

Take a DEEP breath and relax. In 10 years you will be able to look back and wonder why you made such a big deal about this...

Teenagers!

OMGGG!!!!! He's in a good mood!!!!!!!!!

Healthy for what? What would be then next thing that would cause you to close the topic? I honestly think that this honestly still is about piano overall.



...I'm female. *huff* And not homosexual.
Anyways, I actually thought about this seriously and know that if I got a boyfriend, things wouldn't change. And no I've never dated. The issues with piano will still lurk around. It really doesn't have too much to do with her. But for me, she's directly related to my playing somehow. I know that's like a repeat.



No.



If I succeed that may happen. Everything about piano is important now.

Listen to the people with experience and hindsight about these things. EVERYONE feels this way at the age of 17. Everything is a big deal, everything is a life-or-death situation, any bad decision you make will ruin your entire life. Just relax - it doesn't matter as much as you think it does.

One thing life has taught me..

If we do things to please others we often fail.

If we do things for ourselves they work out better.

Oh, you're female.. Glad we cleared that up. One never knows when real names are not used.

Ha. Sometimes one *still* doesn't know that with real names...