Why is it that it's bad to look at your hands playing an instrument if you already memorized the song?
For me, when I play piano I've always memorized sheet music line by line, but I look at my hands while playing. My instructor is ALWAYS yelling at me for it, but why is it bad if I've already memorized it all?

I have a problem I can usually memorize a piece very fast, after two or three plays of a phrase, line, or section it's with me forever. I can put a piece on the shelf for weeks and go back it play it from memory. I was a professional
drummer for years so I always had to memorize songs, mostly jazz heads. Also growing up I played in Drum & Bugle Corps so at a young age my mind was trained to memorize.

My teacher is freaked out about it because she can't memorize tunes like that. She can play them though way better than I can but she has to prepare a piece and will soon forget it after performed. I am the opposite, so even though I looking at the music I am not really reading it, it's like a guide.

So how can I break this Bad Habit of looking down and not following the chart. I think it would help me to look at the music for sight reading, checking notes but I just can't seem to follow the music onced it's memorized. Any suggestions please.


Also, I know that when someone looks at their hands it means they usually aren't very good and are just doing it on a whim, searching for the right keys and such. But I guess you could say I'm not actually LOOKING at my hands- I just can't play with my head up. but I don't actually look at the keys, or the sheet music. Technically I'm not looking at anything, it just comforts me to know my hands are still connected to the keys

Many concert pianists look at their hands when they play. The evidence is on YouTube.

One should avoid looking at the hands when sight-reading (for obvious reasons).

If someone dont look at hands while playing piano ( not from sheet ) he or she want to make a show off.

I think for beginner pianists its important to learn to play without looking at your hands - lots of sight-reading helps a lot in this area. Once you can do this and have an intuitive feel for the geography of the keyboard, looking at your hands for the purpose of refinding technique or navigating particularly difficult passages is okay and often necessary.

That's my take - curious to know what the consensus is. Seems like a question for Keyboardklutz.....

Perhaps your teacher is trying to get you to know the geography of the keyboard without looking because it is a valuable skill. It is much easier to sightread music when you don't have to look at the keys. It is helpful when moving quickly from place to place. It allows you to really focus on the sound. (I do much of my playing with my eyes closed.) It is essential when playing with an ensemble or orchestra to be able to look up without stumbling.

Looking at my hands is a good thing for me. It helps memorization. Why wouldn't we use it if it helps? Cognitive memory, muscle memory--visual memory!

If your goal and your teacher's goal is for you to be a better sight reader, she may have a point. And knowing the "geography" of the piano by touch is a good thing too. But I'm not convinced. From what you say, you've already sight read it one or two times, and now it's memorized. What's the point of sight reading something that is already memorized. Time to sight read something else.

Tomasino

It's not a question of sight reading vs. looking at one's hands. Even when people sight read they have to occasionally look at their hands. It's also not about always looking at one's hands vs. never looking at one' hands. The world's best pianists all look at their hands sometimes when playing without the socre, some more than others and some almost all the time.

The OP says he memorizes after only a few play throughs, but I doubt he's really memorized everything in the score, i.e. every dynamic, phrase mark, rest, fingering, writtten instruction, etc. The world's best pianists work with the score for much longer than a few play throughs. IMO the OP should be looking at the score for much longer than he is presently doing.

In order to sight read well or to play with the score(before a piece is completely memorized), one has to be able to play without looking at one's hands all the time. Also, sometimes it's not possible/practical to look at both hands simultaneously, so a good pianist has to be able to be familiar with the geography of the keyboard.

I would like to clarify a few things. First, I can't site read at all yet, what I meant is I don't have to go back to the music to practice the piece. Of course I spend hours with dynamics, phrasing, touch on one or two phrases sometimes, especially the problem ones. I only do so many parts a day when learning a piece, I can't memorize a whole piece in one day it takes weeks, but I can do it in sections. When I return the next day that section I learned the day before is memorized, now a few more sections.

I am no piano whiz at all, I can just relate and see where every chord, note, falls.....it's hard to explain.


I don't have perfect pitch also, but I can tell if something does not sound right, like a wrong chord..I don't know how I do it because I always did bad with pitch recognition. I guess my memorization is more of a visual one.

I agree it's important in my early stages to look at the music. Should I follow the melody or the harmony, or switch up as I am looking at the score.

Hope that clarifies it a little more.

Unless you never use a score to learn a piece you can sight read. Maybe you can't sight read as well as you'd like yet.

Although I sight read fairly well, I find looking at my hands helpful when learning a piece. A 4 or 5 note chord is often more easily assimilated looking at the keyboard pattern than just the score.

I remember a paper apron(of sorts) came with one of my early instruction booklets (Alfred, maybe?) that actually blocked the view of the keyboard. My teacher made me wear it a few times. I don't know if it helped my playing.

Hey, Horowitz says it's OK to look at your hands when playing a memorized piece:

This is a great question. I don't know but can provide broad generalisations. I play both classical and jazz and so does my teacher.
1. In general, classical pianists are better at not looking at their hands than jazz pianists.
2. The faster the piece, the more likely you are to look at your hands. For the first two pieces, Jean Yves Thibaudet has his eyes closed but not for the last one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bvBnqSId3E&feature=related

3. It is fine to glance down at your hands occassionally.

Now this is going to sound really weird but I've noticed heaps of jazz pianists have a head down posture while heaps of classical pianists tend to sit straighter with their head up. My theory is that a lot of jazzists play by ear, never having used a score. In contrast classical pianists are used to looking up because that is where the score was when they sight-read, practised and memorised.

there's a very simple exercise you can do.

Blindfold yourself and play scales.

It's boring but it helps your fingers find the keyboard.

It's not a big deal if you always have to look at the keyboard, but if you can't do it, you'll never become an accompianist. A soloist can just memorize every piece (look at all the blind piano players out there). But an accompianist sometimes will have a singer change his or her mind at the last second and you'll have to play what they want.

gerald moore: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eosKwI3nkPU

I like to look at the reflection of my hands in the backboard, so I can see the fingers and alignment and especially see extra motions that are not needed, slowing me down.

Kind Regards,
Michael

(PS speaking of playing blindfolded, I tried it, here it is: Minute Waltz Fun Chopin Project

The other benefit of doing that is that you will hear what you are playing much more clearly. (It's something I do from time to time with scales.)

When playing from the score at the keyboard, I keep my eyes on the music. My hands usually do what they're supposed to do, unless the piece has lots of nasty leaps.

When I play by memory I keep my eyes on my hands and the keyboard. This is all part of the process of memorization - and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. Not doing so would be like walking a tightrope without looking at the rope.

According to William Newman in "The Pianist's Problems" "several kinds of memory contribute to secure memorization - among them auditory, visual, touch and intellectual memory." "Visual memory leaves us a mental image of the way the notes look on the printed page, or, more commonly, the way they look on the keyboard."

But many of the greatest pianists look more than occasionally and glancing.

I think classical pianists are taught better posture as part of the correct way to play.

I have a feeling that your teacher's issue is not so much with the looking at hands per se, but the related issue that you are not reading enough. If you always memorise very quickly and never revisit the printed page you probably aren't doing enough reading practice, from her point of view. I doubt that the teacher is only bothered by it because she doesn't memorise so readily, but rather she wishes you to develop all the necessary skills to a high level - reading included.

+1

Also, I find this conversation about looking at one's "hands" fascinating. I look at the keyboard/keys, not my hands. Am I the only one, or is "looking at one's hands" just a figure of speech for "looking down"?

-Daniel

I also have been fascinated by this topic. Many of the jazz greats are blind e.g. Stevie Wonder, Ray Charles or partially sighted e.g. Art Tatum.
My piano teacher taught me how to play "blind" by what he calls the GPS system: using the black notes as the starting point, and then feeling around. I found it slow-going for the first week. In the second week I really could play all my scales and pieces without looking down.

Same here. I look at my hands if I am playing an exercise and trying to correct wrong motions. When practicing a memorized piece I look at the keys.

I'd say you look at both. You don't look at any random keys. You look at the keys where your fingers are going to land next but you also look at the finger as it lands on the key. I don't think you can separate key-vision from finger-vision. They are coupled, as in key-finger. Our memory of chords is partly a memory of the shape the hand makes as it grabs a particular cluster of keys.

[/quote]I have a feeling that your teacher's issue is not so much with the looking at hands per se, but the related issue that you are not reading enough. If you always memorise very quickly and never revisit the printed page you probably aren't doing enough reading practice, from her point of view. I doubt that the teacher is only bothered by it because she doesn't memorise so readily, but rather she wishes you to develop all the necessary skills to a high level - reading included. [/quote]



Very good replies from everybody. Currawong I feel your reply is probably what I was looking for though, thanks. I agree, I do need more reading practice.

This is a funny story to share. My teacher is strictly classical background, she does teach pop tunes to her younger students to play at recitals. I let her borrow a Keith Jarrett Trio CD. I asked her what did she think. As you know Keith Jarrett stands up, bends over and under, dancing while he plays. She told me, "I like his playing and he is very good, but he has Bad Manners while playing the piano." She was mainly talking about his standing up and stuff.

I thought that was so funny because if you knew her, she is from a very formal classical background. She could not watch the whole CD due to his Bad Manners at the piano. LOL.

Thanks again to all. I will develop stronger reading habits in the future and still look at my hands from time to time.

One hour sight-reading a day is invaluable. I think you will notice an improvement even after a week. You will be more confident taking up new pieces because they will not be as onerous to learn.

My teachers have always said that the problem isn't looking at your hands when you play; it's when you CAN'T play WITHOUT looking at your hands. They have said much the same thing for memorization: it's not a problem unless you can't play without it.

Aliwally, this is just me but . . . if my piano teacher said she couldn't listen to Keith Jarrett because of his manners at the piano I would get a new piano teacher. There is some lines you just don't cross, and refusing to listen to one of the best pianists all time because of how he looks is one of them.

Isn't it a bit extreme saying that you would get a new piano teacher if your piano teacher doesn't like watching/listening to Keith Jarrett? What does her aversion to Jarrett's performance style have to do with her skills as a teacher?

You know the old adage : "Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater!"

Regards,

Good point. I can't stand Glenn Gould, for the most part, but my taste hasn't affected my abilities.
By the way, in reference to the post he's quoting...I've never WATCHED a CD before. Am I missing something?

Sure! Finding the right piano teacher is like getting married. You'll never find the perfect match, but you don't get hitched to the first person who says "yes". You try to find someone who is a good fit for you.

A friend of mine quit playing piano entirely because his piano teacher forced him to use flash cards for sight reading skills and he couldn't do it. She was a great teacher, but just not a good fit for him and when I asked him about it he thought that every piano teacher used flash cards, and when I pressed him to find another teacher he said that he didn't have the natural talent to play.

Of course I would drop a teacher and find a better fit. Nothing against the teacher! Just saying, if she refused to listen to Keith Jarrett because of the way Jarrett played the piano I would drop her like a hot potato because it would just be such a terrible fit.

Alliwally - I would also encourage you to listen to currawong."She wishes you to develop all the necessary skills to a high level - reading included."

I have many students who love music and love the piano so much that they consider "reading" to be an obstacle. They think that reading music will slow down their enjoyment. This is what motivates them to memorize every measure right away.

In reality, you will have to do a lot of reading and pretty soon you will be reading much faster and then you will find yourself enjoying it.

You have to have patience and let your teacher teach you the right way. It sounds like she knows what she's doing. Stop memorizing your pieces too early. Read them first.

Good luck to you!

best wishes,
Valerie

A good example of inflexibility.

Regards,

Apparently I have touched a nerve here. In college, if you can't understand your math professor, or in swimming, if your trainer swims the fly and you swim the breast, it's not a sin to get a new teacher, not because they suck, but because you'll learn more from someone that you communicate better with.

Also there's a lot of value in switching teachers. Who knows what interesting things you'll learn with someone else. Why get stuck in a rut and stay with the same teacher your whole life? Why not be inflexible and switch teachers? If your new teacher is no good you can always go back.

Wow!!! It's not that serious about her statement about watching Keith Jarrett. It was said in a kind of amusing way, I don't think she was really that serious.

She probably was more disturbed by his singing out loud. It is not enough to get rid of my piano teacher, I respect her for the reason that she is honest about her feelings and not just saying something to please her students to keep them. I teach percussion myself and I should know when a teacher is good or bad. She personally is above reproach to be honest, she moves students as much as there talent will allow.

Instead of keeping someone in a book just to finish that book and move to the next. She will not allow me to move on to a new piece until the piece I am working on is fully understood. When I think I have that piece down she always shows me something else that need to be worked on. Believe me, I get stronger and better with each piece I learn too. So I would never get rid of her, it took me a long time to find a good one. When I tell people I only being playing for about 3 years they don't believe me, that's a good teacher.

I could already read music when I started she figured that out quick, okay, forget this book, let's go to this one, okay no need to finish that one, time to start on some pieces. Who do you like? I like Chopin, okay let's start there. No brainer.

So I respect her, I have heard many musicians talk about Keith's stage presence and singing and even some members of his band does not like the singing on stage. So there you go.

I've noticed that I do this less the longer I play. I suppose it just gets more comfortable over time.