In light of Steven's most recent treatment (after apologizing to BB Player, no less), I have decided that I cannot in good faith remain at Piano World.

I want to say thank you to the many good friends I have on here. Discussing music and many other things has been a pleasure. But all good things must end, and I feel that that end has come for me here.

Cheers to all!

~H

Not you too!

Well H,

Many thanks for the time and effort that you have put into PW that does make it a place worth coming back to. I have found some of your advice to be most useful over the last 12 months, so thankyou.

I am very sorry to see that 2010 is starting on such a sad note for many of us at PW. I have enjoyed all the personalities that I have encountered here, and I am sorry that something, that someone wrote in a PM when quite upset and frustrated, has resulted in the exodus of so many fine people from PW.

And Horowitzian, just for the record.... I would never hurt a kitten

Marcus

Just to let everyone know, I will check my PM's for a while. So if you want to touch base, that'll be the way.

Oz — Thanks for your comments and support. Awwww, I figured. I just reacted to what was to me an unseemly image.

Congratulations on daring to make a principled decision.

Why not let us know if and when you find another venue so people know where to discuss with you in future?

Goodbye and Farewell might be instead: See you on the other side...

Oh, yes. I am at Piano Society under the same name, if anyone wants to discuss anything.

To paraphrase Steven, "Dang"! I wish you weren't going too.

It's really sad when good posters (Frycek, Horowitzian, etc.) say they are leaving...Come on, let's not let misunderstandings from the ether chase away insightful and interesting people.
I'm usually only over on the ABF, but do follow subjects that interest or inform me here and on other forums.
I sincerely hope you all don't leave because you WILL be missed!

I hope you might reconsider, Horowitzian, if not now then before long -- and also that somehow the situation with SV can turn around and he'll be back too.

Naive though this may sound.

As they say, stranger things have happened.

This is a great site. It might not be perfect, but what is.
And remember what your guy Horowitz said: "Perfection itself is imperfection."
Even though we never did figure out what that meant.....

Thanks, Mark, that means a lot to me. (I woulda PM'd you... ) The same for CMohr.

We'll see. In the meantime, I will check my private messages. Perhaps the smoke will clear after a while and things will be mended. Better yet, perhaps the signal to noise ratio here will improve. If all that happens, I may consider coming back.

Good night, all!

Thanks for taking it that way -- I was afraid you might think I was somehow being sarcastic, since we've had our "moments" and I know it's sometimes hard to tell about things when it's just dots on a page......

Yeah, I know. You seem to be a genuine person, after all.

I forgot to add thanks to gooddog.

To reiterate: I will check PMs, and will consider returning if the forum appears to me to be moving in the right direction.

Well, it is really sad to see so many established members go....

5 bucks says Horowitzian hits 7,000 posts on this thread alone.

I suspect it will, and hope you do.

Hi Horowitzian,

Youth (thank goodness) is devoured with high-sounding moral principles ... but as you get older, the bruises gained in the rough and tumble persuade a less holier-than-thou approach.

All the parties involved in the fracas are depressives including the party around which the whole nonsensical hullabaloo has been orchestrated. ... the fact is that some of these respected colleagues have gone off the rails (forgotten their medication perhaps) need to be reminded of acceptable Forum etiquette ... blundering aggressively is a no-no.

From my corner Horowitzian ... THERE IS NO REASON TO GET ON ONE’S HIGH HORSE AND THREATEN GOING INTO THE WILDERNESS (menu: wild locusts),

It insults the intelligence ... to abandon the honey-pot ... quite daft!!

Please allow the Forum Management to sort out this unfortunate hot potato.

Kind regards.

Actually the 'wild locusts' diet included honey.

Dear old kingly klutz,

According to my info
Exodus 16:31

"And the house of Israel called the name thereof Manna; and it was like coriander seed, white; and the taste of it WAS LIKE wafers made with honey”.

No quite the same thing your royal-ness.

Good luck to you. I too have enjoyed reading and benefited from your insights.

Kind regards,
Jim

It's in the NT...
Matthew 3:4
And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.

Ken

Horowitzian, please don't do this to us. I really enjoy your contributions here. You would be missed.

Thanks Ken. I don't think Sir btb has quite got as far as Bible II.

Horowitzian: I think you should stay and be a part of the restoration of Steven and work to make the Forum a better place for all. Perhaps Mr. Baxter will pardon his infraction and Steven will contain his frustration of this poster, 'Tosser,' and can continue to contribute sane and sage advice.

If the situation has become absolutely intolerable and there is no hope for some appeasement in the future, then leaving is probably best. The majority of posters here try to be considerate in voicing their differences of opinions and do so gracefully. I'm not sure leaving at this point is serving a good purpose tho. Think about it for a while before departing the Forums.

When I have more time I must research that section which has caused this sad situation so I can understand better what has transpired.

Here's the spinoff forum created the last time a bunch of people got mad and left:

http://s10.zetaboards.com/The_New_Coffee_Room/forum/10633/

Actually TNCR was created - by PW member Jgoo - when Frank closed the Coffee Room (oh yeah, and also when a bunch of people got mad and left).

I think you mean here:
http://s10.zetaboards.com/The_New_Coffee_Room/index/
Some names I recognise.

So I went and checked out the other forum. Kreisler, are you indicating, then, that a purge now and then is actually a GOOD thing? :-)

Looks like a pretty sad place piano wise.

I think it's funny that some people are like "OMG What's happening to Piano World???"

I think some of us old-timers are more like "Hmmm, yeah, three years seems about right for another blow-up. Oh well..."

I've been around for a little more than 7 years, and these dramas always happen. People get all upset, stage their little Lifetime Movie-of-the-Week Oscar moments, and life goes on.

Come on Uncle Kreisler, tell us about the time Frank closed the Coffee Room - plea-se?

A little rebellion now and then is a good thing. - Thomas Jefferson

Thinking of changing my screen name to Juan Kerr

Well, Tosser seems to already been taken!

H,

I hope you don't quit either, but on the other hand it seems to me once someone's made such a declaration, it's pretty tough to back away. I hope you do though (back away that is).

I'm really surprised at the iron fisted response of management to the whole episode, but they quite rightly understand they have all the power. A few brand name, gold standard posters quit? "What else is new?". A crazed middle of the pack poster goes off the rails by proposing a general strike (wonder who that could have been?:>) "Yawn."

And so life goes on. I'll miss you Steven if you're still reading. And I hope we can say in touch...

I think contextually Jefferson's next lines in his letter to Madison that follows your paraphrase (written from Paris, but about Shay's rebellion) are even more worth while...in this current context.



"Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."

I wouldn't even put this in the same category of some of the blow ups in the old Coffee Room days.

I've been here for a little less than Kreisler - still about 7 years.

Some things I've learned are:

- Blow ups happen.

- People come and go.

- The grandness of the grand exits from a forum are directly proportional to the certainty of the "exitee's" inevitable return.

FYI,

While the Coffee Room blow-up caused us to lose several members and created some problems here on the forum, it also forced us to look at our policies and guidelines. "Coffeegate" was one of the reasons Frank asked us to be moderators in the first place.

I suspect that after the dust has settled, forum policies will again be revisited to address the problems we have.

In a PM I received earlier, I got a sense that people may feel I'm writing off the Sotto Voce issue as an expected triviality.

I'd like to assure people that I'm not. It's in my nature to be a diplomatic mitigating voice, trying to reestablish civil, piano-related discussion as quickly as possible. But I do think the gravity of the response warrants a serious examination of forum policies and procedures by the mods, admins and webmaster.

What the heck is going on?

A week's a long time in politics? heck divide that in seven for us!

Sotto Voce got banned yesterday. Do a search on his name and you'll see around 100 posts to fill you in.

Actually, Sotto Voce was banned on the 2nd. It took 6 days for people to notice.

You must be a goodly Christian royal klutz ... that OT to NT correction (wild honey call).

However, as an elderly disparager of religious tenets ... what with all those fanatical decimations over the years (pogroms, holocausts, Inquisitions, Crusades, etc.) ... my favourite prank when someone tries to parcel me into a Christian "box" ... is to retort as being of another persuasion ... either Jew, Moslem, Hindu, Buddhist , Atheist, Darwinian, African Witchdoctor, Bushman ... anything to be able to throw rocks at “chosen race” adherents.

What beats me is why so many nutty sects split into two conflicting camps to blow each other up like the Shiites and Sunnis.

Thanks to moderator Ken for reminding us of the NT background to John’s eating habits (Matthew 3:4) while dunking folk in nearby rivers ... after a spell in the chookie, didn’t John’s head finish up on Salome’s dinner plate? ... I’ll have none of it!!

If only these chaps would dump the politics and concentrate on their piano skills ... must remember to slip this bit of worldly advice to President Obama ... does anybody know if he can play? ... he might want to catch up on Clint Eastwood.

Do you think he could tackle the Shiites and Sunnis next? Myself I'm of the Jedi religion.

I hope you do too, Mr. Horowitian. And let me add my two cents that, if you decide to return, it'll be very easy for you to back away from your declaration. Just start posting again, tomorrow, next week, whenever. You'll be welcomed with open arms. It will be easy.

-Jason

I feel that I must say to everyone that I am touched by this outpouring of support. Thank you. I may reconsider yet...so stay tuned...

What a smile it gave me to see you'd posted!

Brava! Brava! Encore!

I think many of us noticed quite rapidly. We just conducted most of our conversations in private. You know, the posters btb highlighted in red.

Yeah. It's a little interesting that the OP - one of SV's best friends here - wouldn't have known about what happened, and didn't really go to his defense to the Mods. or Frank - as far as I saw - until a week later when the hoopla ensued. Puts it in a certain light, IMO.

i am glad you're still here. (wish everyone was)..

you have a wry sense of humor that balances nicely with your musicality.

Actually, I hadn't been around the fora as much as usual when the initial problem occurred. In fact, I totally missed it. I just happened to get an email from Steven about the whole thing. I've talked to Ken about it, and await his response.



Thank you, apple*.

So are you officially checked out of the Aloha suite?

Not yet. I have had so many PM's from good friends here that it is giving me second thoughts.

Well, Oral Roberts said God would call him home
if SV or Horwitizian left...



Guess it already happened.

Speaking as a psychiatrist, I just want to say that none of us here is capable of making an "assessment" like that, and it just makes you look a little nasty.

Horowitzian

A personal plea: I really don't want you to leave-- you add a lot to this place and besides, we need all the Steinway lovers we can get around here! Seriously, buddy-- stay and this will all blow over in time. There's lots more positives than negatives overall to PW.

Sophia

Horowitzian, please say. We haven't finished the Horowitz vs Rubinstein argument yet.

Yes -- I wasn't here, but I've seen that this thing is being approached that way.

Some members have been disappointed that there hasn't been a greatest apparent reaction by the administrator and moderators. While I'm with those who are upset about much of the handling, I've been struck by the willingness of the powers-that-be to hear and to reconsider.

I suppose that in some absolute sense, the 'hearing' and 'reconsidering' haven't seemed very great to many people. But I think if we consider it in any appropriate frame of reference, such as compared to other internet sites or to organizations in general, the hearing and reconsidering have been impressive, including just the willingness to allow such extensive public discussion of the situation.

I thought it looked like things were headed in a quite-good direction as of yesterday afternoon, and I kind of think that if more people had only seen it that way and gone with the positivity, we'd be much further ahead now.



Great to hear. I thought so.


Ditto. Thanks for coming on and saying. I hope nobody will fail to see it.

I don't agree. We have no idea what that might mean.

.....and maybe now we do. But we didn't before, unless we were psychic.

I hope that I'm not out of line in saying this, and I'll say up front that I don't know exactly why you and SV got into your rather frequent arguments...but as a moderator that clearly didn't get along with him, a comment like that seems in bad taste to me.


Anyway, I usually don't post unless I feel like I have something to contribute (which isn't all that often), but I read here when I can and I'd hate to see you go, Horowitzian. If you leave, who's going to post the emoticon for beating a dead horse? Seeing that certain people are posting in threads is usually enough to make me click through, and yours (and SV's, FWIW) is one of them.

Please stay, Horowitzian...I, too, appreciate your posts.

...I have decided to stick around. I was very angry last night, but after a night to cool off and some time at the piano to clear my head, I feel much better. Fortunately, Steven and I are in contact off the boards, but this community as a whole has lost a generally great contributor. Steven's email is in the profile of the stevebob account, if anyone wants to send him a message.

I've asked Ken to reconsider. It's the only right thing to do at this point. I, in most cases, have appreciated both Ken's and Greg's judgment; however, this is a case where I feel the community has been injured more than it has been helped by the decision to ban Steven. But we are only human. And I sincerely hope that the administration here will take all the public support for Steven by the members as well as Steven's own apology to Greg into consideration.

In the meantime, I would like to extend heartfelt thanks to those who not only supported Steven, but also supported me via this thread and private messages. It means a great deal to me.

Let's all work together to make Piano World into a friendly community once again.

Good call, H! Nothing like a good night's sleep and a morning at the piano to put it all in perspective. Some time and cooling off will hopefully make things right and eventually even get Steven back.

Sophia

We all win if you stay. Now if we can get Steven back, we can all sigh with relief and return to music.

I'm glad you're back, Horowitzian. I've really enjoyed your insights in the time I've been on the board.

btb:

If you knew anything about depression, you would know that it can still hit even though one has "not gone off one's meds."

And, even though I have beeen a good girl and taken all my pills, I still find all of this quite depressing.


Kathleen

I agree with the others, H- I'm really glad to think you'll stay with us. I enjoy your contributions! And I also hope that Steven will re-join us soon.

Just curious- what was the music that accomplished this for you?

Some scales and a little Chopin in honor of our friend Steven.

+1

Welcome "back".

Rubinstein.

I cannot imagine what Soto Voce will do with his time being apart from PW. PW is his life. He contributed most of his time to participate in virtually any topics in PW.

H -

I'm very happy you made this decision, Horowitzian. You are an asset to the forum, and I would have hated to lose yet another knowledgeable and valuable member.

Thanks, Monica.

My posting history speaks for itself. Look at it. There were not "frequent arguments" between SV and me. We had maybe 3 or 4 threads where we disagreed. Take a look for yourself.

Now, having said that, I do have questions why the OP waited a week for the Grand Exit thread when he had to have known about it much sooner.

Enough said.

This whole thing is starting to resemble a Christopher Guest film.

How about reading the thread first?

I'm glad your hanging around Horowitzian. I have been gone from the forum for the weekend and just got back in time to read this amazing soap opera and I swear I kept waiting for your single post... "What a great thread!" You have always cracked me up when you do that.

Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive. -ELBERT HUBBARD

WHAT AN AWESOME THREAD!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for the support, Peyton!

Love the quote. So true...

He just wants to hang around long enough to pass my post count. Heck, that could happen in this thread!

Well my dear Horowitzian, you certainly managed to get your share of attention in this thread. But I would not advise crying 'wolf' a second time. I will not deal with that again my good mate.

The banning of Steven was NOT connected with this particular forum -as we so abundantly know- so let us not cut off our nose to spite our face, okay?

Take this as you wish, I love you very much, but it is time to move on. Dodgy things will always happen on this board, I adored Steven, but there was always something unbalanced about Steven's temperament. I got into trouble with him once for a PM, yet it was because he didn't properly read what I said. Good grief, why did I have to explain myself, I didn't need a maladjusted 50-something telling me what's going on.

For all that, almost every thread closed by the moderators in this forum had abundant contributions from Steven. Very intelligent man, always wrote more beautifully than I could ever conceive, but so often I wanted to say (and now I can) 'would you please get over yourself'?

Now I have nothing to loose, he can't put me on the ignore list. Sorry, had to be honest here. And Steven, please be well. I am moving on.

Don't worry, I'm not insulted or anything. But I do think I have moved on more than you give me credit for...I got over being angry and decided to come back.

Frankly, I don't think Steven wants to come back even if he were to be allowed to return. And I can't say I blame him. That's fine with me, because we correspond off the boards. I will say that I generally agreed with Steven's sentiments in said threads...only had I been in that position I would have been more reserved.

Let's just try to be civil is all I ask...

I missed posting in all the other threads before they were closed - so I just want to say the whole thing has made me very sad. I valued Steven's contribution and yes, I had the odd run-in with him (well, one that I recall ) but I'm very sorry it's come to this, and I hope something may be able to be done to enable him to return. There are things I don't understand about how it was handled, but, like Jason, I suppose I feel one has to move on.

This Horowitz guy flips flops more than Brett Farve!!! Have a backbone and do what you say or don't say what you won't do.

BTW.....I'm not saying the Packers should have kept Favre, but I don't think Favre would have fumbled that ball.

Don't forget. I have a long way to go before reaching Brett Favre's number of 'retirements'.

I'm teasing you Horowitzian... the things pro athletes do. Count Gilbert Arenas and his $100 million mistake gone wrong.

I know. A little humor is much appreciated, I'm sure. OTOH, Favre is playing better than he ever has before...so he must be doing something right.

Fumble-no , but Favre does have a penchant for throwing INTs.

Whether Favre, would have fumbled or not, twas one heck of a game, eh?

Must be the Minnesota weather.

Who knew there were so many football fans here!

Football... so that's what that was about! I thought you'd all gone a bit strange...

But the Vikings play indoors.

yeah, I always thought Faure was a Gabriel, not a Brett

...well if you're not looking closely

Yeah, the American smash 'em up kind.

Ah! Violent sport - great for bringing people together

Hi Horo! glad you decided to stick around.

Second only to internet posting.

Well, even Horowitz himself came out of retirement! so you're entitled to at least one, H !


Glad we're starting to laugh around here again!! (and at ourselves! "Lord, what fools these mortals be!")

Sophia

That he did! I hadn't even thought about it. Laughter is the best medicine!

Welcome back, H...can't think of a PW without you and a few others as a dependable core.

...can we please include dear Gyro when when exercising this sentiment?

Good to have you back H, although you never really went, did you? I prefer the new avatar, too.

Well, I've sworn to ignore Jyrreau, so you won't hear anything from me.

Thanks, I figgered it was time for a change. I've always loved that photograph (that is my new avatar).



Thanks!

Yeah, it's been quite a weekend. Never have I enjoyed the arrival of Monday so much!

Agreed! I normally hate Monday with a passion...

Oh My.

Not only have I been away from PianoWorld for a bit due to the holidays...but I also come late even to Horowitzian's thread.

I have participated in many fora over the years, on a wide variety of subjects. While it may not affect me personally, I have always found that, while I admire those who volunteer to moderate, and that, human nature being what it is, impartial moderation is a difficult and often heroic skill to attain and maintain, particularly when one has philosophical, cultural, or moral differences with some of those being moderated and not others...

Still, the frustration of seeing it happen generally ruins participation in the forum for me.

I do agree that


SV and I did have a dust-up at one point. Yet, over a year later he PM'd me to apologize about it and said he'd felt bad ever since (as did I).

Neither of us, obviously, suffer fools gladly, which is a poor quality to have if one frequents internet fora

I have no illusions that any prolonged absence of mine will be mourned or even noticed...but I doubt that I will be much motivated to be active in the forum for a while.

Who didn't have a dust-up with Steven? Reasonableness always prevailed though!

It would be -- and so will SV's.
This whole thing has gotten me interested to look more closely at the "Devoted to Chopin" discussion and I've been marveling at his posts. Speaking as someone who also had "dust-ups" with him, I know that thread will particularly miss him greatly.

That's putting it mildly.

So true. I remember when he called me on something. He was right about it and there were no hard feelings.

It's usually cold in cyberspace. That's why forums like this one are so valuable to so many. It offers the opportunity of connection ... of a "family" for lack of a better word. And like many "families" we can all get a little dramatic from time to time.

Are you sure?
These things can be subtle......

Oh yeah. I was pontificating on why learning how to speak the language of music first via improvisation and a chord-based approach was superior to note-reading and the classical approach. I still believe that idea but the way I said it alienated those reading that post. He said so in so many words. Of course I agreed since I posted it in the "Pianists Corner" where many classical pianists hang out.

That old chestnut. That rattled a good number of cages. So, you're a changed man? Whatayaknow!

OK, so you weren't exactly wrong.

But that's a great point, and great that you were able to be open to it. I've had to look at that myself at times (need I say) -- and it seems clear that this issue was a HUGE element in the recent whoop-de-doo. I hope that everyone (meaning everyone) who was involved in it has looked at that, or will. When people feel, "But all I said was......" they're often missing the real story.

To be honest this place often seems like the opposite to me - very uptight and haughty.

Just try to get some of the classical players here to learn to improvise, it's like pulling teeth with them!

Nah. Learned, and opinionated maybe, but not haughty. You just need to make it clear that you are open to learning new things and you should clearly separate opinion from fact and you will feel right at home. What's funny is that the ABF seemed at first to be a warm and family-like place but when I, as an adult restarter, tried to join in, I was promptly made to feel unwelcome because I was too advanced. Perception is in the mind of the beholder.

And just try to get you to stop bagging people for playing the music they like to play! That's a bit like pulling teeth, too!

++1

I improvise alot and I'm very proud of it. Thanks.

I do both!

I get paid to do both. My "day job" is a part-time jazz gig in the mornings!

My weekend job is a rock band. I'm not known for my improvisations, but after the fifth drink, it can hardly be called anything else.

Come over to my thread everyone!! On the subforum for Pianist Corner there is a thread called "Any Takers?" and I'd really like to hear what people think that improvise. Please don't dismiss the initial concept until you read further. I hope there may be some individuals that can give some important feedback (Kreiser? ChopinAddict? Anyone...anyone? Büeller?...)


http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1347059/Re:%20Any%20takers?.html#Post1347059

What does it do to your ears? (the music not the ETOH)..

What? (I know, that joke doesn't work when you're typing)
Seriously though, it causes them to ring. I think the medical profession calls it tinnitus. So I sleep with the TV on.

Have you tried earplugs?

How does that work? You play jazz in a breakfast/lunch diner?

Could be 2AM to 4AM type of morning? :-)

I've tried "in ear" monitors for awhile, but the bulk of the damage happened long ago. I just live with it and keep my monitor volume as low as possible these days.

"Dunkin' Donuts is proud to present:....."

Heh, I don't get that feeling at all, but maybe they're afraid to speak up to "the teacher"! Just keep plugging away. I think it is important for people to hear good playing, as much as it is good for a good player to learn how to get better.

Boy this thread has taken some interesting turns.

i just notice this thread but didn't read all posting here. i just want to say 'Bye and Good luck' to you, Horowitzian! i kind of understand what you were going through and how you made the decision, which is probably the similar reason that i don't want to show up much here as well.

always remember you being a out spoken and funny guy here, and we did share some opinions during the Cliburn comp last year.

have fun elsewhere and good luck!

HAHAHA. Some dunkin' donuts are very elegant. For example, the one near Harvard calls itself Elm Street Cafe, I believe. HAHA

Jazz in the morning??
New one on me.......

(Yeah, me2)

I think what you meant was......... (take it, someone!)......

Read the whole thread.

I can't stand hearing a violin before noon...dunno about jazz.

Yeah I'm curious about that jazz gig in the "morning"! Do tell...

Does it count if no jazz chords or progressions are used? If it doesn't, then I don't improvise! Never!

You must not have heard any good violinists...

I doesn't matter whether it's a friend of mine or Itzhak Perlman...I hate violins before noon.

Hey if you are a musician, wouldn't it be in your best interest to learn all aspects of music? Composing and improvising are just as important if not more than sight reading.

I never said you had to improvise jazz, you can just as easily do it with classical. What do you think Mozart and Bach were doing? They were playing around with melodies and motifs and just happen to put it to paper.

If Mozart were alive today and you asked him to play one of his songs he'd probably do it slightly different each time. I bet he'd find it boring it play it exactly the same way each time, I sure as heck would!!

*sigh*
I grow a little weary of pointing out to you that you are making huge assumptions that classical pianists do not improvise. They can and do. I do. My students do. I know many pianists who do. I know many teachers whose students do. OK? So stop talking as if you're the only human in the universe who can improvise, engaged in a heroic one-man crusade to bring jazz improvisation to the stunted pianists who only want to play Bach, Beethoven, Brahms and Bartok.

Why would you assume I haven't studied "all aspects of music"? Why would you assume I don't think composing and improvising are important? I'm a composer for goodness sake, and I think I can safely bet I was improvising long before you were born.

But do stop talking as if those who have no interest in improvising are unmusical. You have no interest in playing other people's music from the written page, or playing classical piano, but I'm not accusing you of being unmusical, or of anything - except arrogance.

I share your feelings. I've decided to watch during a few weeks how things develop just not to make a decision in the heat of the moment.

Is that true Wizard of Oz? Are you solely a player-composer-improviser? Or do you learn some notated classics of 18th 19th 20th century, that sort of thing?
I'm curious in light of your passion re improvisation.

Hey currawong, you seem to take it personally what I say about improvising. Who said I was addressing you? You'd better relax lest you have a heart attack!

From my personal experience the majority of the classically trained players have minimal skills in improvising because they haven't been taught. One of my jazz friends did an improv seminar for classical teachers and they were pretty much completely in the dark.

If you're a composer then let's hear some of your music. And your improvising. Don't be like Gyro and just talk.

If you've been improvising loooong before I've been born, then you must be a senior citizen by now.

And who said I have no interest in playing other people's music? I NEVER said that. Go through all my posts and find where I said that, or are you now putting words in my mouth?! Stop being so presumptuous. I play other people's music all the time.


If I'm arrogant for suggesting pianists learn how to improvise, then you're just hopeless.

Canonie, that currawong guy is just putting words in my mouth. Check all my posts and see if you can find where I said that. As for the old classics, let's just say I've finished the highest level of classical training that's accredited here. I just don't play that music anymore. Jazz is where it's at for me.

Must be something in the waters with you Kiwis Down Under. =)

For the record, I never slammed any genre of music. If classical is your thing, play your hearts out. I like jazz so that's what I play. If it's Elton John and Billy Joel tunes that float your boat, be my guest!

OK maybe I did get a little steamed up. I recall you describing how you were classically trained, then in your twenties gave it up for jazz. I believe you said you no longer play classical repertoire, but if this is not so then I'll take your word on that, rather than trawl through all your posts. I actually agree with a lot of what you say in your posts - but I really get annoyed with your tone, which comes across as smug. If you were merely "suggesting pianists learn how to improvise" I doubt I'd have reacted. After all, I encourage and teach my students to improvise, as I mentioned. Your "pulling teeth" analogy didn't exactly imply a gentle encouragement, and it was also very patronising.

As for the line about improvising before you were born - I gathered from some of your previous posts that you were in your 20s or 30s. If you're more ancient than that, then I'm mistaken.
I see no need to prove anything to you. No-one here at PW is obliged to prove to you that they are telling the truth. Believe me or not as you choose.

You know what CURRAWONG, NOW I'M TICKED OFF. WHERE THE HECK DID YOU COME UP WITH ME SAYING I DON'T PLAY OTHER PEOPLE's MUSIC,
"AS I'VE OFTEN SAID"

SHOW ME 3 OR 4 POSTS WHERE I SAID THAT. OTHERWISE YOU ARE GUILTY OF LIBEL.

BASICALLY WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS FALSE. WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY TO THAT, IS THIS HOW YOU ATTACK SOMEONE? ANSWER ME.

Hey, quit shouting - who's in danger of that heart attack now!

You said you don't play classical from the written music any more - in fact you don't play from the music at all. However, you do play jazz standards, not just your own improvisations, so I got that wrong, didn't I. Shall I edit it out of my original post?

Actually, it would probably be more accurate to say:
"You have no interest in playing other people's music from the written page..." Agreed?

In case you didn't realize, jazz standards are written by people too.

Of course I realise, that's why I added it and said "so I got that wrong" (about not playing other people's music).

Hahaha...ok man, I've calmed down. I just don't take kindly to false accusations, as you yourself probably don't. Yes, I don't play from written music anymore. I may use lead sheets to learn a song, but once I know it I'll play it by ear.

I have no qualms about other people's music, I'm just not interested in classical anymore. All is forgiven.

OK, there's two heart attacks avoided.

So you keep on improvising and playing by ear and lead sheets. I'll keep on doing what I do. There's no need for either of us to "pull teeth" in order to make anyone play what they're not interested in playing. Peace.

And btw, I'm not a Kiwi

Well that explains why you find Pianist Corner frustrating sometimes then!! There is a lot of music reading and classical going on here. Don't be too surprised about that

It would be like reading the Rugby League site when you're passionate about a different code.

I guess there is so much good information here that it is no doubt worth visiting to pick up ideas for your jazz technique, practice methods etc.

Yeah, I know you're not a Kiwi. I've met many Aussies before and lived with a few. The Kiwis take exception to being called an Aussie. Kinda like when Canadians are called Americans.

Seems like you're only up to the grand exit part, and haven't gotten as far as re-entrance.

Although there are a few funny and entertaining posts in this thread, it pretty much amounts to the OP yelling "CANIS LUPUS!"

Happens all the time in forums, and the only difference is how long the "grand exitee" takes to say "well, the guy was a friend, but hey this place is too much fun," and puts the wagon in reverse.

In this case the "standing up for principle" lasted less than 24 hours. Nothing wrong with that [Yawn]. Just an observation. But next time, don't kid a kidder.

Dang if you ain't the downright orneriest moderator I ever saw!

Yeah, I'll probably quit the mod. stuff soon. It's too easy to call it as I see it.

"Oneriest" isn't the word I would have chosen (don't ask), but it serves the purpose.

I am trying to figure out where to insert that [Yawn] thingy. You know, as if I am being really really extra super duper clever about showing condescension and disdain, without, you know, like, actually calling people the names I really want to call them. I've been seeing it around the net for years now, and of course, want to be "cool". [Yawn]

Shouldn't you start a new thread to announce it? Here's a good subject line - "Canis Lupus".

Is this the point at which I (and many others) plead for you to stay?

p.s. I have no thingy!?

p.p.s. Oh, suddenly I do!

p.p.p.s. I see, Don't do yer yawns with a cap.

And we're done. Don't know who started it. Don't care.

Cool off and grow up, everybody.