I'm 13 years old, I've been playing the piano since I was five, yet I have never had a real (acoustic piano)... Many of you probably heard my story before.

I've tried almost everything to get a new piano, from Petitioning, to phamplets and a real discussion, but my parents won't cooperate. They're acting like stubborn (donkeys).

My current digital piano is extremely bad. There is no consistent touch to the keys, and the keys produce a very loud slapping sound when you press on them. It will randomly create dissonance and play the note at the highest volume.

I talked to my school, and they allowed me to use their piano, but it's a very light action, which may be dangerous in the long run.

I just hate it when my piano teacher asks me "Did you practice?!", to which I have to respond "Yes, for 2 hours each day", and I get a bad stare.


I'm about ready to pour liquid on the thing, it is so aggravating! My piano and I should be connected, but it refuses to cooperate! Warranties and service are out of the picture.

I feel your pain. I had to deal with an awful spinnet piano growing up, and it required all sorts of accommodations just to get a decent sound out of it. Have you offered to do work around the house? I'm not sure if you're old enough to work yet for a real job, but there's shoveling snow, among other things you could do. Tell them that you are serious about this and you will work to pay for a portion of the piano. They may say "no" flat out, but then offer to help out around the house. Go shovel snow for the neighbors for $10 or whatever (**sends snow your way, we've got lots of it!**). When they see how earnest you are about this, perhaps they will reconsider. If not, suck it up and practice on the crappy piano, and work until you can pay for it all by yourself. Either way, you'll eventually get a better instrument out of it.

You don't mention why they won't buy you a new piano.

Find out what the root of their objection is.

Then ask the question, "What can I do to get a new piano?"

It's also possible they can't afford to buy you one.

Tough to figure out the problem, if you don't know what it is first.

Try the approach above. At the worst, it won't work. At best, who knows?

Good suggestions from Akira. They may have a money problem. I still believe that a used acoustic piano is 100 times better than a brand new digital. They may find a good bargain in the newspaper. With a real piano you will feel the vibrations of the strings under your fingers and acquire the proper sensations and ear training. On a digital keyboard you could never do a half pedal. You will not grow if you do not have a real instrument. A digital is a toy, a piano is an instrument.

Another suggestion is to try and rent a piano.

This usually works (at least in the UK) that you rent a piano for 6 months, for example, and if you decide to buy it later you save the money you paid to rent, etc. If not you can keep renting it, but it might be a bit stupid (though you do save some monei of the rent as well for the next months/years to come).

This way you can tell your parents that it's some kind of "test". They are not buying a piano, just renting it. Prices over here, for a medium piano are as "low" as £30 (60$) per month, which is not amazingly much for 6 months.

You get those 6 months with a piano, and persuade them that:
a. they would "lose" the money if they sent the piano back
b. If they keep renting it means that they won't be using the 100% of the rent money anymore.
c. It is safe to get a piano, in case they were worried that you wouldn't study, since they see you studying everyday (thus it is proven you are mature enough to have a piano)
d. They have already paid the 1/5th, or whatever amount of the price of the piano.
e. Pianos usually do not lose "a lot of" value. It's not like cars that the minute you drive them bang 40% goes away!
f. This could actually help you on the way to rent a piano yourself. Cutting a deal for 360$ per 6 months, is much better than the price of a whole piano. This kind of money, could potentially be found from you easier. I mean shovel 36 gardens and you're done! Buying a piano would mean shoveling 200 or so (!) (then again if you have THAT much snow, you might as well start exporting some towards Greece! )

Now all this, considering in the US you can rent a piano with such conditions as in the UK. I bet you can, but can't be too sure.

Great to see that the quaint old 19th century attitudes aren’t quite dead yet. It’s always good to keep a few oldies around who can tell us about the past. (Got to be careful with some of the old codgers though – like the clockwork they’re always banging on about – they’re easily wound up….)

The problem here though is the lad is only 13, so his parents might not even have bought him his own horse and buggy yet – let alone one of those enormous, unpredictable, contraptions that you’re talking about. All that erratic wood and wire is SO high maintenance too – would he be up to all that?

I think Nikolas has hit on a fine solution – if the young man is keen to start on the hobby of collecting antiques and historical curiosities then the rental plan is the perfect way to start. He can contribute a worthwhile amount and prove himself worthy of additional support. (Perhaps he could find work as a chimney sweep? )

Cheers,

Chris

(Don’t believe the vicious rumours that I have a secret collection of wood, brass and wire curios hidden away at home. Digital – not just the Future. Enjoy it Now.)

Try this. My mama bought me a gawjus Steinway grand back when Steinway was making Steinways. It is now worth approximately 15 times what she paid for it according to the online "piano blue book." It's an investment and it's the best friend I ever had...

Does your teacher feel you are being held back by the level of your piano - if so, ask that your teacher mention to your parents how you are ready for a more serious instrument and how your playing might take flight.

Or....

Get a part time job and save money to buy one. Maybe your parents would go for it if you paid for half of it.

Here's an indirect approach... If your family has a church, maybe you can try to get involved and play some prelude/postlude music (if you don't already). The congregation will be impressed and will surely let your parents know. There's nothing like a little social pressure.

I sympathize with you because when I was
taking lessons as a child I had a bad
acoustic upright to practice on (there
were no digitals back then), and I came to
blame it for my problems at the keys--
however, now I see things differently.

After taking classcial lessons through high
school I quit playing for 20 yrs. (I blamed
the upright for my problems mainly). When
I restarted as an adult, the first piano
I bought was a top-of-the-line acoustic
upright (the same model today would be
more than $15,000). My thinking was that
I was going to give it a real serious try
this time around, and I would need a much
better piano for that. However, I soon
discovered that the piano was not the problem.
I could play no better on this fine upright
than on the lousy one I had as a child.
The trouble lay in the fundamental problem
in piano playing: reading and then hitting
the right notes in the right time at speed.
You do that the same way on any keyboard
instrument: concert grand, harpsichord,
clavichord, upright, digital, 61-key portable
keyboard, organ, etc.

I've been playing only digital pianos since
1989, and they have only reconfirmed my
view about pianos: if you can't play something
well on a digital piano, you're not going
to play it well on any acoustic. For
example, if your parents were to buy
you a concert grand to practice on, the
same problems you have now with reading
and then hitting the right notes in the
right time at speed will still be there. Your
playing will not improve simply by buying
a more expensive piano.

As for the stiffer action on some grand
pianos, that's something of a problem
if the piano you practice on has a lighter
action, but that should not be significant
if you've solved the fundamental
problem of reading and then hitting the right
notes in the right time at speed. You
may have to huff and puff a little when
playing on the stiff grand, but you should
be able to do it with no real problem.

How is a light action dangerous? Using the school piano if available might just get you a decent practice instrument.

I hope the statements that your parents are stubborn donkeys and that you are ready to destroy the digital piano were written sarcastically. If not, I'd say grow up and learn the value of the dollar. It is not your right to have a piano. It is already a privilege to have a digital piano, regardless of how bad it is, and to be able to take lessons. Appreciate it and show that you appreciate it.

Prove that a better piano will be better for you. I cannot for the life of me play on a keyboard or digital piano. However, I have taught students who have only played on basic keyboards and they were able to transfer to a piano easily for a performance. Just because you practice for 2 hrs does not mean you are practicing the right stuff. Does your teacher write reviews of your lesson? If not, ask for reviews. Then, devote time to practicing on the school piano for the same amount of time for a couple of weeks. Does the reviews change? Show them to your parents.

Do you get new clothes every year? Do you get presents for your birthday or for the holidays? Ask not to receive any of that and for it to go into a piano fund. Give up going to the movies, give up any other activity you do besides school. Show that you are willing to sacrifice. Get a job. This can even be saved up for a piano later on, not necessary for while you are at home.

You are 13 already. Think about your future. You could chose to be free in a few years should the current arrangement be too frustrating. You could focus on school and go to college where you could have access to nice pianos. Start researching and studying.

I went to college when I turned 16 and have been on my own since then with scholarships which included music if I had chosen to accept them. I am certainly not a genius on the keys nor in other disciplines. No one can keep you from your dreams except yourself. Work for it.

I'm going to have to disagree with part of what you say, Gyro. Of course reading skills and ability to find the right note will not improve simply from having a better instrument. However, Sean is getting into advanced music which requires a LOT of detail work. Obviously, this cannot be accomplished if he is stuck on a bad instrument. A crappy acoustic would be just as bad. Ideally, he should be practicing on a nice acoustic or a high-end digital. Anything but an inferior, malfunctioning relic.
Sean, you deserve better!

I agree with miaieh. It is important to listen to your parents' objections. They have an idea of how you should be trained in learning the value of a dollar, and how you should spend your free time.

It is very difficult for others to comment without hearing their side of the story. In the meantime, you do not come across in a flattering way by comparing your parents to stubborn donkeys. Your loyalty and appreciation is first owed to your parents.

There are some important life lessons developing here: how you can work with your parents to achieve your dreams and still be trained to be respectful and responsible and loyal to your family.

Why not get your parents on here to post and dialogue with other parents?

In the longer view of things, all artists suffer one thing or another for the sake of their music. You're in good company.

A good digital stage piano (e.g., Kawai MP8) is better than a bad acoustic. I tend to do a lot of my practice on the digital (noise, etc.) and while a good acoustic is better, I prefer the digital to a poorly maintained "brand" grand.

ocd

just make do with what you have until you can get a job and buy one yourself.


I'd rather not do the whole "back in my day"...... but back in my day before i got to college i practiced on a very very old upright. The action was almost like a keyboard, the sustain pedal didn't work, some of the keys didn't work, and a lot of the keys were chipped at the end so i was constantly getting little cuts on my fingers which annoyed me to no end.

After a while the black and white paint started wearing off the wooden keys and i would get blisters on my fingertips which eventually calloused.

But whenever we had company and i had to play, they would always compliment my expressiveness and quality of playing. When i finally got to the college i'm at now, i got to practice on a grand everyday which was like heaven.

moral of the story: the musician makes the instrument, the instrument does not make the musician.

Very good points, miaieh and guest1013.
I think it is a good idea to try to work with parents as opposed to working against them. They may not quite understand your side, but maybe there is something that you're not seeing from their side. If you have to buy the piano yourself, so be it. You will have to make sacrifices as we all have. Don't give up on getting a better instrument! It probably won't happen quickly but when it does, I'm sure it will be well worth the wait.

Sean, I a parent of a student who is now a young adult in music studies, and I am studying music myself and so understand the frustrations of bad instruments. How about taking some issues one at a time:
Petitioning and pamphlets sound a bit silly: they are family members, not voters. What has your discussion entailed? That is the first important point. Could you clarify?

Have you discussed your situation with your teacher? Explain about the piano. Also explain about the school piano and your concerns about its light action. It sounds as though your school piano might be a solution for you if you are serious about practicing. What does your teacher say about light action pianos.

To a degree your piano should serve you, and if it creates dissonance (you mean a note will suddenly play as a different note? digitals can do that?) then it interferes with practicing. However, the musicianship and skills are within you and not the instrument. A good instrument will allow you to achieve more. A really faulty one may train you into bad habits. Being able to adjust to different pianos may be a valuable skill to develop, especially since pianists do not carry their own instruments around with them like a flutist or violinist would.

First of all discuss this with your teacher. Find out what your needs really are, and find out about your approach to pianos i.e. the light school one. Once your true needs are known, (you don't need a new piano, you need to be able to practice on a decent piano regularly each day for a set number of hours) approach your parents. Truly listen to what they have to say and make it a real dialogue - that means listening. What are their concerns? Why don't they want to buy you a replacement piano? Can they afford one? What are you willing to do? What expectations do they have? How could you contribute toward its purchase, if your teacher has determined that it is necessary? Or can you manage with the school piano for the time being?

Sean, I a parent of a student who is now a young adult in music studies, and I am studying music myself and so understand the frustrations of bad instruments. How about taking some issues one at a time:
Petitioning and pamphlets sound a bit silly: they are family members, not voters. What has your discussion entailed? That is the first important point. Could you clarify?

Have you discussed your situation with your teacher? Explain about the piano. Also explain about the school piano and your concerns about its light action. It sounds as though your school piano might be a solution for you if you are serious about practicing. What does your teacher say about light action pianos.

To a degree your piano should serve you, and if it creates dissonance (you mean a note will suddenly play as a different note? digitals can do that?) then it interferes with practicing. However, the musicianship and skills are within you and not the instrument. A good instrument will allow you to achieve more. A really faulty one may train you into bad habits. Being able to adjust to different pianos may be a valuable skill to develop, especially since pianists do not carry their own instruments around with them like a flutist or violinist would.

First of all discuss this with your teacher. Find out what your needs really are, and find out about your approach to pianos i.e. the light school one. Once your true needs are known, (you don't need a new piano, you need to be able to practice on a decent piano regularly each day for a set number of hours) approach your parents. Truly listen to what they have to say and make it a real dialogue - that means listening. What are their concerns? Why don't they want to buy you a replacement piano? Can they afford one? What are you willing to do? What expectations do they have? How could you contribute toward its purchase, if your teacher has determined that it is necessary? Or can you manage with the school piano for the time being?

They said it would disturb the neighbors, the cost of tuning would be too high, and "we don't have enough money", like they have for the past 12 months...

This is wrong, because the piano I want (Yamaha U series) has a mute pedal, and they have blown 6000 dollars on TWO HDTV's. They've blown 899 dollars on a fancy solid ink printer, etc.

I completely agree with you on this. This digital makes it FRUSTRATING to practice. Then again, there are acoustics with very light touches, which will be detrimental in the long run.

Frank III-

In the beginning, she advocated to "Buy a real piano, do not buy digitals, they are BAD". Nope, they buy a keyboard, 66 key. On sale. For 100 bucks.

Then, I needed all 88 keys, so they go spend 600 dollars on the piano that I"m stuck with now.


Now she thinks that it's not neccessary, as long as I have 88 keys, because when one of her friends was young, and didn't have a piano, she drew keys on a piece of paper.

That really doesn't justify my situation...


I do a LOT of work. I live in new england, and we get huge snowstorms, so I always snowblow the entire driveway and concrete part of the backyard. I do all the laundry, cook most of the time, and wash all the dishes.

I troubleshoot computers and stuff for them also...

kissyana- I talked with the local church, although I'm buddhist, and they said their hours conflict with all my school hours. It was a waste, because they had a very new yamaha Grand, the same one I use for the yearly recital.

Is this whole thread a re-run?? Sean, why don't you set your goal a little lower? Maybe they would be more likely to invest in a nicer digital for you? Sounds like you live in an apartment?? Neighbors can be a really big issue. If the sound is the greater part of their objection, they might still not allow the acoustic even if you had every dime of it yourself.

If they have told you no for a year, they aren't likely to change their minds now. Maybe you should consider adjusting your wish list.

Sorry to say this, but at 13, you're at their mercy.

They've also blown money to feed, shelter and cloth you. "Don't have the money" means we choose not to spend the money. The harsh reality, unfortunately, is that they determine how their money is spent and what sounds emanate from their house. Try not to judge them too harshly. When you are old enough to make your own money and live in your own house, that's when you get decide.

I feel your pain, but I think there is little you can do about the situation. Those seem like legitimate reasons to me.

If I may offer a slightly different perspective (that probably won't be shared by others here - but oh well). Depending on the degree of "badness" you are working with, it may be a blessing in disguise.

When I was growing up, my piano left a lot to be desired, but I wouldn't dare ask my father to replace it, because it was a family heirloom, given to him by his grandfather. It was in tune with itself, but the whole thing was pitched about a half-step below concert pitch - our tuner said the frame wouldn't withstand tightening it up to concert pitch. The keys were rather inconsistent too - some too loud, some too soft...

That said, playing on that made me learn how to coax a decent sound out of a not-so-great instrument. If you always play on a "perfect" instrument, you will not learn to appreciate the subtleties of individual instruments you will find yourself playing on. Every instrument is different, and you need to adjust your touch.

Also, since the whole thing was a half-step low - it was excellent practice for my transposing skills. For instance, when I would play chamber music, or a concerto along with a recording, I'd have to transpose in my head on the fly. A good skill to have, albeit perhaps a bit of an odd way to develop it. (That doesn't sound like that's your problem - just a little aside...)

My personal experience was that by learning to coax a beautiful sound out of a lousy instrument made it that much easier when I was sitting at a good instrument.

Does that mean I think you should just use your own instrument and be happy about it - no. Definitely try to look for ways to play on different instruments, and if you are lucky maybe you will get a new instrument at some point from your parents. I just wanted to caution you against dumping too much on your current situation - it may not be as bad as you think, and hopefully things will change in the near future.

As I said, this opinion probably won't be shared by many, but that was my personal experience...

It was my personal experience too, 8ude, and I do share your opinion! "Learning to coax a beautiful sound out of a lousy instrument" has been an essential skill for me as an accompanist. I play on all sorts of instruments, the good, bad and decidedly ugly. It makes the thrill of playing on a really really good instrument all the greater. The C3 I have now is a pretty good piano, but I got it years and years after I'd got my diplomas and degrees. And it's not so good that everything else I play on is a comedown .

PS - I'm not saying that having a bad piano is good for your soul or anything - just that, as 8ude said, it's not all negative.

Originally posted by Tenuto:
You will not grow if you do not have a real instrument. A digital is a toy, a piano is an instrument.

Originally posted by Late Beginner:
"Great to see that the quaint old 19th century attitudes aren’t quite dead yet. It’s always good to keep a few oldies around who can tell us about the past. (Got to be careful with some of the old codgers though – like the clockwork they’re always banging on about – they’re easily wound up….)"


Late Beginner: How do you know that I am an old codger just because I prefer an acoustic piano to a digital piano? It seems to me that you are jumping to conclusions here considering that you have never met me, and know nothing about me. It so happens that I also own a digital piano and have a great deal of fun playing it. However, I consider it another instrument and I play it just for fun. What would you say to someone who plays acoustic guitar instead of the electric guitar? Would you say that this acoustic guitar player is an old codger always banging about?

Getting back to the topic: You mentioned that your Mom complained about tuning a piano. It really only needs two tunings a year. You could offer to do some work around the house to help pay for the tuning. It shouldn't cost them too much anyway. Also, play them recordings of great pianists and then play them a recording of a great digital keyboardist (first of all..can you find any?) Is there a famous digital keyboardist that we can brag about on this Forum? I don't think you could campare the two. It's just another instrument and new composers are out there who can write new music for it. The classics will not do IMHO.

It's just a bit of a joke Tenuto! Don't you do jokes where you are? Sorry if I made it sound too much like a genuine attack on older instruments.

I play both acoustic and electric guitar. Both are fine instruments with different uses and capabilities. I started on a nylon string classical style guitar, then added steel string acoustic and finally electric. They're all fine ways to make music and I don't feel any need to rate one at the expense of the other.

Of course I don't know that you're an old codger - but I do know that I am. Born in the first half of last century...

I'm trying to point out, in a fun way, that you're being unnecessarily rude to all the many members here who play digital equipment by calling their instruments "toys". If you want to dish it out then you should be able to take a bit of ribbing back.

Cheers,

Chris

Most pianos that i have seen are a good 4-7 thousand dollars. Those are teh ones I'd want anyway. Some pianos are 30 years old and look brand new. Don't be afriad to buy a used piano by a good name. Pianos are made to last and will give you years of enjoyment. Just make sure you speak with a respectable dealer.
A lot of places have monthly payments. My favourite music store lets you have the piano for nearly a year before you have to finalize the rest of the payments. That means I can have the piano for a year, while making monthly payments, and as soon as I decide I dont want it, the payments stop and the piano goes back. Also another great feature is that they will rent it out for a trial persay, and then if you want to buy it, anything you've payed into renting it gets taken off the buying price!

The monthly payments are about 75 dollars a month. I know that my parents compromised with me that if I payed for half of the monthly payments (so like 35 bucks a month) then I could buy it. I hope I've helped

Sean, Did you see saerra's thread in adult beginner forum about "wanting a piano" ? Lots of lessons about limits and patience.

On other shopping threads, have you noticed how the best retailers do not compare their customers to stubborn donkeys? Try to find positive outcomes and benefits that would accrue to your parents, not just yourself, by obtaining an acoustic piano. How would you become a better family member? How can you prove it to them in the meantime? Otherwise, why not have plan b or plan c ready, a better digital piano, or continuing to use the school piano or other pianos in your area.

Good luck.

... where did sean go? LOL

Wonder how he went... it's been a couple of months...

We've been here before, haven't we Sean?

Quit bleating, be thankful for what you've got.. and, above all, STOP BEING SO PUBLICLY DISRESPECTFUL OF YOUR PARENTS. Instinctively, my sympathies are firmly with them... goodness knows what they're having to tolerate from you. I don't know your parent's financial circumstances and it's no business of mine anyway, or of this forum in general, but I for one will have more time for you when you've done some growing up. My advice, for what it's worth, is - first learn some respect for your parents and then maybe you'll get the piano your apparent talent deserves.

Disrespect, maybe. Frustration, maybe. Your link brings us back to a link to Sean's playing: demo Clackety clackety clack. Just how hard is this piano to play? Sean, if you can play that piano, you can play anything. In another forum a student had a top of the line piano, and as a result she could not adjust to lesser pianos and that is not good.

Sean, it's your choice of language that is turning people of: do not write about your parents with such adjectives - rather stay with problem solving. Have you thanked them for letting you have piano lessons? Not all parents do. Acknowledgement and appreciation may be something they need to hear and it may open the door a crack.

As long as it's a free world and I have a right of free speech, don't tell me what to do.
IF you want to attack me, expect an attack back.

Not quite THAT hard to do here in Winnipeg!

A piano is pretty expensive. I have a battered upright that is beyond repair, but unfortunately cannot afford to get even a used piano. Still, I guess that's better than a battered digital.

If your parents feel that buying an acoustic piano is too much, then there's nothing you can do. But hey, cheer up! In a couple of years, you can legally get a part-time job to get the money yourself. And it really doesn't take that long to make a couple grands if you don't have living expenses to worry about.

Sorry but:

WHAT?!?!?!?!

Who are you to talk to anybody like that? Sean talks about his parents and he has the age factor which plays a part, unless you just were born and old (wo)man.

I just hope that Sean won't wait for your time. I'm sure that he does understand everything, but maybe that this forum does not work like many others. This is something that maybe never crossed you mind, but this is by far the most civilised forum I've seen in quite a while. Posts like the above are considered (in the general population of the Internet) quite ok actually. At least to my knowledge.

WOW! I mean WOW!

I would suggest you learn how to talk to anyone no matter their age or a public forum post before trying to offer any kind of advice, huh?


____________________________________

The demo linked, had a piano which felt really bad for me (seeing it that is and hearing it). The clicks and clacks in every single key, the velocity issues, and judging from his hands the touché of the piano as well.

No doubt the first post in this thread was not nice, no doubt at all, but we've been through this as well. 2 pages (and another 1 page in the previous thread) about the same thing. 13 year olds get frustrated and express themselves. End of story. Heck I'm 30 and just did so as well above to cruiser. I'm sure that he realises that his original post was at least of poor taste.

Now let's hope that his situation (about the piano) can be resolved one way or another. There have been plenty of suggestions around. Just some things are not meant to be sometimes. Lack of space, lack of money (and priorities are different in different people), lack of attitude or willingless are enough to make people... more patient.

Getting back to the topic: You mentioned that your Mom complained about tuning a piano. It really only needs two tunings a year.

Not necessarily - depends on the piano and the ears of the family. I actually think once a year is sufficient for most people. We had an old upright that rarely needed to be tuned.

And, really, how much do tunings of an upright cost? $50? Maybe $75 if some extra stuff needs to be done? Once a year, that's not so bad. Offer to pay for tunings yourself. Renting a good digital piano sounds like your best option, which would eliminate all of your parent's concerns. A decent digital will be fine to practice on for the time being, supplementing that with practice every once in a while on one of the nicer pianos at the school or church. It's not ideal, but the goal here is to improve your situation, and the best way to do that is to deal with all of your parent's objections until they have none .

Sean-
In case you don't end up getting a good instrument soon... one of the most talented pianists I have ever met (including seasoned performers with PhDs) was a young man who had only a digital and a TON of chores to do before being allowed to practice (he lived on a farm). He was 16 when I heard him perform and it was absolutely amazing. His technique, expression, and interpretive skills were way beyond his years. That was 4+ years ago so I can't even imagine what he plays like today!

P.S. Piano tuning costs are way cheaper than digital cable costs. And TV rots your brain while piano study strengthens it.

My general advice is four times a year for the first year, (Change in seasons), then two times every year... I heard it "Seasons the pinblock."

There has been an old piano at my school which never had been tuned, and it still sounds good now. On the contrary, my piano teacher's piano needs to be tuned, or else I hear a dissonant buzzing noise.

Has any of the advice on this thread helped you? Any progress? An update would be nice.

Well, I now use the piano at my school, although the problem is a very light action and it's way out of tune.

I talked to my parents, who refuse to talk about this matter anymore.

My teacher has finally given up on persuasion and doesn't really care anymore.

At this rate, I will be quitting piano soon!


I did find a very nice professional upright, Steinway, 1980 for sale.

Sean, don't give up! You will find that not playing anything at all is many, many more times worse than playing on a bad piano. Make the best of your situation, and try not to dwell on the negatives, because right now, you cannot change them. However, make plans for the future. Save up your money so that someday, you will buy yourself an instrument. Make some small sacrifices now for that future instrument, and you will get it. The best things are worth the wait.

And in the meantime, having an out of tune, lighter action piano at school to practice on isn't really that bad. Lighter action is actually desirable, and well, the tune thing you can't help, but you will get accustomed to it. Don't let this little setback defeat you, because to be honest, life as a musician is full of setbacks like this. Many times what keeps us going is the fact that music chose us, not the other way around, and so we have no choice but to press on.

Sean.

1. Don't give up piano. Why on earth would you want to do that?
2. Maybe hire a tuner yourself for the piano at school? I mean even 100$ is rather small amount, which I'm sure you can find. Thus the tunning problem might dissappear. About the action I don't think that much can be done, but let's face it you put the limit high with an upright Steinway.

Good advice.

I don't know the situation in detail but I must say it seems quite unfair.

When I was 16 I wanted a piano and my parents were reulctant to buy one, but I had explained to them the differences between it and a digital, and they bought me a $5000 chinese grand. They had to sacrifice to do it (a new car they were planning on) but I was sincere and signed a contract stating practice time and how I was to do work and such.

Two and a half years later I'm a piano performance major at the Cincinnati College-Conservatory of Music.

I think it's a shame if the OP isn't allowed to explore his potential. Who knows what can happen?

Yes, the OP has talent and it would be wonderful for him to develop it on an acoustic. It would be ideal if he could find someone whom his parents respect or with whom they share cultural ties or values that might put in a good word for him. I don't think his parents will care at all about anything said by us here at PW.

Also, look back in the fall, Sean, at posts by BradKY. I think people at PW rallied to get him a piano because of how polite and enthusiastic and persistent he was despite his hardships. Your parents might respond to you in a similar way if you follow his example.

Good luck.

Yup, I'm pretty sure I'd be a professional Formula 1 driver if it wasn't for my parents lack of support in my youth

Sean, a couple of other things to try:

- Hook up with your local piano dealer. Show'em that you're sincere and serious. They may be able to at least get you going down the path of getting a cheap piano (payments, rent to own). You'd be amazed at what some fact time and earnestness can do. If nothing else, having some decent piano's to play once or twice a week could help keep your fire burning.

- Find a person who has a piano who needs odd jobs done in exchange for piano time. Heck, if some teenager came to me and said that they'd do all my yard work in exchange for consistent time on our piano, I'd have my leaf vacuum in the hands of that kid so fast they wouldn't know what hit them!

Oh yes, did I mention the efforts I have taken to right this?


-I first disassembled my piano, spraying compressed air everywhere inbetween the keys and on the motherboard. I skipped a Boy Scout camping trip for this.

-To no avail, I then look for free pianos on craigslist. I still do every day.

-I then do all the house chores. Although I don't have a real piano yet, I still have to do all of them.

- After, I disassembled, cleaned again.

-Finally, I asked my piano teacher to practice at her house on weekends. No avail.

- I asked 3 libraries, 2 churches, 2 temples, and my school if I could practice. Only my school, which has a broken piano, it's also light touch.

- I go to local piano dealers, and ask for cheap pianos.

- I make phamplets.

-I write on the mirrors and glass (With dry erase marker)

- I petition.

- I boycott the piano.

- I stopped taking lessons.


NOTHING yet. This is very frustrating!

Here is a youtube video of the broken piano:
http://www.youtube.com/v/YS0dpHNmBXg

Please wait a while for it to appear.

Here's a picture of what I did to our bathrooms:

You quit taking piano lessons? How is that supposed to persuade your parents into buying you a piano?

It's not my place to judge, when I don't know the exact situation. However, I'll just say that if I was your parent, I would sell the damn TV if need be to get you the piano.

But really, at least your parents are willing to pay for your piano lessons. Practicing on a bad digital is better than not playing at all.

I have no piano at home. I have a digital that's ten times worse than whatever you have - it's practically a keyboard - the keys are mushy, not weighted. It feels nothing like a piano except it has 88 keys. I wouldn't even call it a digital since digitals imply weighted keys and some semblance of similarity. But in fact, with this shoddy piano I've already one a (student) competition and relieved a first-class honour pass on my recent senior piano exam. There's no doubt that having a great piano would be helpful and I certainly wouldn't deny it - but I think this "life and death" situation is an exaggeration. So call me a skeptic about the whole "exploring potential" side of things.

Sean,

1. WOW! resize those pics! You just destroyed the 2nd page of your thread! (even paint can resize pics, I think)

2. I think you have plenty of serious advice and backing up from here. Start taking some actions:
i. If it is a problem of space there's absolutely nothing you can do.
ii. If it is a matter of money, start saving I'm afraid.
iii. If it is a matter of the neighboors, TALK TO THEM. Get them to talk to your parents!
iv. If it is a matter of your parents simply refusing for no apparent reason (although I'm sure there should be a reason) then... again you need to listen I'm afraid.

...more good advice

How ironic is this thread? The OP is looking for advice about his parents who don't do what he wants. The OP receives lots of advice, some he may not like, so he doesn't comment or appear to listen to it. Some advice might be the hard truth, that he either will have to work harder and change how he acts or wait until he is grown and on his own, to get what he wants... which is the true life experience of most PW posters.

I got exasperated at the OP in the last thread and yelled at him. Of course now he won't listen to me.

But look at that photo. I don't think that is an effective or persuasive communication strategy. That is like the OP yelling at his parents. So the parents ignore the OP. In frustration, the OP asks for PW advice but doesn't seem ready to follow it. The OP doesn't appear to want to change his ineffective ways of communicating or doing more than what he has already done. So another poster like me yells at the OP. And of course, yelling at the OP is ineffective in persuading HIM to either change his ways or accept life without an acoustic piano in his home.

Let's break this ironic cycle. I apologize to Sean for yelling at him and lecturing him when I was rudely and bluntly sharing my opinion.

Peace be with you Sean. I hope you count your blessings. Life is full of waiting, compromises, and more work.

oops double post. sorry

Spell persuade correctly. Take up the lessons again (they were paying for those weren't they?). Spend more time at school practising - practise anywhere you can. Stop writing on windows and mirrors. Resize enormous picture on page two of this thread. Job done.

I wouldn't buy the OP anything for those pictures alone, much less a piano. That's more than enough reason. On top of that, there should be punishment for destroying property!

lol

Guys/gals.

Stop judging the guy completely. He sure doesn't seem to listen, so let's leave this thread to die. But mirrors can be cleaned extremely easily...

Sean,

First, it's wondeful how much you love the piano and want to play it.

Second, even the greatest composers of the world had to put up with second-rate, broken-down pianos

Third, your relationship with your parents is more important than the piano, at the moment. If they don't share your enthusiasm it's too bad, but not all is lost. You are young, energetic, soon you will be an adult and make your own decisions. However, you only have one Mom and one Dad and you've got to work on getting along with them. See what artistic kinds of interests you share with them. Start communicating with them in a positive way. You'd be surprised what can develop if you have a strong foundation with your family.

Good luck to you.
Don't give up music.

Sean,

I think you need another opportunity to notice what and how you are explaining your situation to us. The message I am getting is you make big demands, you show your temper by taking it out on your Mom and Dad, and damaging the bathroom, and you begrudgingly do your chores around the house.

When you are a happy and contributing member of your household, and hold everyone there in respect and love, you might improve the vibes between you and your parents and be able to communicate in a more effective way.

The piano and lessons are part of your dissatisfaction, and I can certainly understand that. But, you cannot demand from your parents that they meet this need. You can request. Hopefully, you would be deserving of consideration, but if they don't have the means, or choose not to consider it, that's it.

Giving them sass and being abusive to your home is just an absolutely wrong direction for you to take. Why does that seem reasonable for you to do?

Take the steps to be responsible and eventually earn your own piano. Don't be insensitive and rude to your parents, no one deserves verbal or physical abuse or damage to their home.

Many of us had inadequate instruments growing up, and some of us had no instruments at all for long periods of time. You can bet it was upsetting, it was also very real. I know I cried many times, but at no time did I shout, complain, demand, blame anyone. It was a fact of life.

For the universe to provide what we need, I believe we have to be deserving of it. We need to be part of the solution, not part of the problem. We have to care about the others in our lives as much as we care about ourselves.

I have 5 adult children, 10 grandchildren, and 2 greatgrandchildren - I would want for each of them to have hope, have faith, behave reasonably, work earnestly, and find their way in life. Happiness comes from within.

Start at home and build a strong foundation as a family member and contributor. Life is more about giving than it is getting.

I believe your musicianship and instrument will come to you because you invited it into your life in a respectful and responsible way.

Betty Patnude

Poor Sean.

When I was a child my parents couldn't afford a piano.

I'm now 47 and learning to play, and buying my first piano.

Life is what you make it, not what you are given.

Volunteer, help others, do it for free.
give of yourself. You might not get a piano, but you will be happier.

What disturbs me the most so far is not the tagging on the mirror--it's the fact Sean can't find a place to practice other than at his school! He's probably not looking hard enough.

As a piano teacher, if one of my students begs me to practice on my grand, I'd say "Go for it!" Just this afternoon I let one of my students practice on my grand for an hour. I also let my students practice on my piano right before competitions. It is very important to practice on a quality instrument.

I don't think Sean is right in calling his parents "donkey," but I can sure commiserate with him--several of my students' parents are misers.

I don't agree with some of the things you done, but I can sort of tell what you are going through.

I know a kid with super penny-pinching parents. He currently needs a laptop or personal computer for school, but his parents won't buy him one. You can buy any cheap computer for $200-300, but they won't even do that. I decided to give him my old Gateway PC, which is only good for typing up reports, but that's just what he needs anyway.

What bothers me is that his family recently inheritted a huge sum of money from a relatives that passed away, but won't buy their son the cheapest of computers that he NEEDS for school. I'm not sure many of you are aware of this, but it is an absolute necessity to have a computer to get through high school nowadays. In college, you won't survive without a computer or laptop.

He is a top-notch student at school too. His parents should be nurturing him with stuff he needs to further his education, but instead, they blow money on thousand dollar digital cameras and other luxuries.

This kid has always had it rough. When he wanted a Playstation 2, his parents bought him a used Playstation 1. When he wanted video games, I donated him some of mines that I don't play anymore. His parents always bought him cheap bargain rack games that he didn't even want. Those were games nobody would have wanted, actually, even it they were free.

A lot of asian parents are this way. I'm not sure what your situation is though. I would think there is more to the story if you claim to do chores for your parents and are able to play decently (I've seen your videos). Is there another factor that you are leaving out? Maybe your piano enthusiasm is causing a slip in your grades?

If the situation is really hopeless, then you'll just have to wait it out until college. Under the conditions you are facing now, you'll LOVE it after high school when you go to college... that is if your parents let you move out, lol.

If you go to a university, you'll be in heaven with the music department and the grand pianos they offer in the practice rooms.

Keep your chin up. You play very well already and should continue practicing on your digital. There is plenty of time for a piano later. Many keyboardists out there conform to a real piano in less than a year.

PS
I had to spend lots of energy and time to sincerely persuade my parents into letting me buy my current digital piano ($850, $950 with accessories,) out of my own pocket. What was frustrating was that my dad really persisted in telling me that a 61-key unweighted keyboard was the same as a real piano. After I proved him wrong, he kept telling me that real pianos are for professionals only and that I should stick to the keyboard... I'm glad that is all over now.

Thanks for the advice.

Sorry for the lack of posting, I was away for the weekend, camping- because I'm a Life scout in the BSA, showing another part of commitment.

As for grades, no, I'm in Advanced Placement in 8th grade, so I do very well, if I do say so myself.

I will try to talk with them... yet again. My piano again, has been moved into a trash room that's not even insulated.

It seems they don't prioritize right.

Sean,

I'm a parent (two grown "children" and four grandchildren). I can assure you that if you were to treat me as you claim you treat your parents it's highly unlikely you would ever be given a piano. As with other posters, I do not presume to know your situation or your parents financial resources. What I do know is that you are not in a position to demand anything from them. They may choose to purchase a piano or not -- and that is within their rights as parents.

It's clear that you have a love for music and for the piano in particular. What is equally clear is that you have a serious attitude problem. Being a Boy Scout is wonderful and achieving the rank of Life is a good accomplishment -- one that you can use throughout your Life. The fact that you are in an AP program is equally commendable.

However, life doesn't owe you anything. If your parents won't (or can't buy you a piano) start saving for one. When my granddaughter was your age she wanted a guitar -- and saved her allowance for several months, eventually her father decided she had shown enough determination that he bought a guitar, he paid 3/4 of the price and she paid the rest. She's 16 now and doesn't play at all -- which was kind of what he had expected all along.

A piano costs more than a guitar -- at least, one that is worthwhile does. Consider that it may be your attitude that is keeping your parents from any desire to buy a piano.

Sometimes we actually use behaviors that are designed to prevent the very things we want.

You've been on this forum a while, and you continue to show the same demanding attitude with your parents throughout. I can assure you that if you had treated my house as you did yours, any money you saved might have been lost through bringing in a housekeeper to clean up the mess you created.

Now, I'm not in your shoes, I'm not in your parent's shoes, but I am a parent and I do deal with young people on a fairly regular basis. If I were in your position I would seriously consider an attitude adjustment as the first step towards getting a piano. It's not about their priorities, it about your behavior.

Ed

1 / Find a job
2 / Buy a second hand piano and the trash in your trash room will make room for it after you clean up the mess anyway I'd say.

I was a kid when I bought mine and I had to work for it, if you wanted it desperately enough you'll find a way to accomplish it. If not, then maybe you are just fighting a civil war. Nothing ever works out in a civil war.

I make no apology for my post on page 2 of this thread - in spite of the castigation I received from one person in particular - and least of all to the op. I would say that subsequent evidence has proven my harsh words to be more than justified.

It's time this thread was locked down imo, as should all further threads started by the op on this particular topic.

btw Sean, please do something about the size of the disgraceful photos on page 2, will you?

Sean:

One thing you might consider is to "barter" with a local piano dealer.

Several years ago when I was visiting relatives in another country, I had to practice for an upcoming piano competition. There are no grand pianos in any of my relatives' homes. I went to the local Yamaha studio, which had a baby grand, but they wanted to charge me money to practice!

Then I went to the local Boston piano dealer and spoke to the owner. I showed her what I could do with the piano. She was very gracious and allowed me to practice on those beautiful, new grands for free!! I guess she wanted live music in the store to attract customers, and I got several good instruments on which to practice! Then this other guy came into the store and wanted to play the orchestra reduction part of the concerto I was working on. I had a blast! It was a win-win situation.

So, I believe if you look hard enough, you'll find a place to practice.