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Recently, a young piano teacher sent me recordings of 20+ songs along with the question: why do they sound boring, although all the notes and rhythm are perfectly correct?

In all these recordings, I found only ONE the same mistake that almost all pianists make today. But this mistake, as usual, is made in each measure of each song.

Having received my answer this young teacher recorded the same songs without this error. Now they sound much better.
In order to make this error more noticeable, I put the corrected version FIRST here, and the initial version - the SECOND.

I invite everyone to notice this error and suggest a way to correct it.

I ask everyone who can, to indicate to me at least one record available for listening on the Internet, on which the pianist does not make this mistake.

Thank you in advance!

Bach. BbMinor I volume.mp3 PN» - BachBbMinor I volume.mp3 PN
https://yadi.sk/d/EFMWBia-Ey99sA

Bach. Little Prelude in D Major BWV 936 PN.mp3» - Bach Little Prelude in D Major BWV 936 PN.mp3 https://yadi.sk/d/_DCYyRBzxHgi7Q

Bortnyansky. Crucified And Buried.mp3 -
https://yadi.sk/d/Hs852AM3hWorLA

Bach. Musette in D Major.mp3 PN
https://yadi.sk/d/QEfaIr6enGtWyg


Bach. Minuet in D Minor.mp3 PN» - Bach Minuet in D Minor.mp3 PN
https://yadi.sk/d/dDTcl5_dz2dgcw


Handel. Gavotte in G Major.mp3 PN» - Handel Gavotte in G Major.mp3 PN
https://yadi.sk/d/50Qh1zxGYt-PWA

Rameau. Menuet en rondeau.mp3 PN»
https://yadi.sk/d/8YhsJkL88rkxBg


Diabelli. Sonatina in F Major op.168, no.1 PN.mp3 PN» - Diabelli Sonatina in F Major op.168, no.1 PN.mp3 PN
https://yadi.sk/d/HAPglAGwwOxBhg


Mozart. Menuetto I in C Major.mp3 PN» -
https://yadi.sk/d/PFc8huf0zWj2HA

Twinkle,Twinkle
https://yadi.sk/d/ZFkUSWX8AFZC2g

Petzold. Minuet in G Major mp3 PN
https://yadi.sk/d/fZheygap1Kl-dw

Schubert. Ecossaise D 299 No 8 .mp3PN» - Schubert Ecossaise D 299 No 8 .mp3PN
https://yadi.sk/d/OYD3Zfy_rAeyng


Heller. Fluttering Leaves PN.mp3» - Heller Fluttering Leaves PN.mp3
https://yadi.sk/d/yGwbIS0zszNOEQ



Nakada. The Song of Twilight PN.mp3» - Nakada The Song of Twilight PN.mp3
https://yadi.sk/d/H-R7rGWvBtJ-_A



Norton. Play It Again PN.mp3» - Norton Play It Again PN.mp3
https://yadi.sk/d/2Rjav1BAvkK8WA

«Peterson Jazz Exercise no 2 PN.mp3» -
https://yadi.sk/d/OgrYUk6TkN1ACw


Weill Mack The Knife.mp3 -
https://yadi.sk/d/4llz5S7yhsdRdg




Jingle Bells PN.mp3» -
https://yadi.sk/d/n9mr3IdeHhcmZw

Happy Birthday To Yoy PNC.mp3» -
https://yadi.sk/d/viDllwBGzTWY0w

Old McDonald.mp3 -
https://yadi.sk/d/5Y_CEIb2YPefOQ

Love Story PN.mp3 -
https://yadi.sk/d/WC9j5WS0rD9_vg

Long,Long Ago PN.mp3» -
https://yadi.sk/d/x1EzhaR7DiRWgg

My Way.mp3PN.mp3 -
https://yadi.sk/d/nh3LI7fqIbjZ_Q

Varlamov. Scarlet Sarafan PN.mp3 -
https://yadi.sk/d/EGe-qLMu6lyeGQ

Moscow evenings PN.mp3 -
https://yadi.sk/d/1nsKqacal4SOcw
What's the point of this
No need to pretend this is a new topic. This is the exact same premise as the OP's previous threads.

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2830486/1.html
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2830466/1.html
Originally Posted by AAC127
What's the point of this


Can you point and identify this mistake? What would you recommend to fix this problem?
Originally Posted by rach3master
No need to pretend this is a new topic. This is the exact same premise as the OP's previous threads.

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2830486/1.html
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2830466/1.html



Topic is as old as music itself: how to play better? How to avoid typical mistakes? What is the best way to fix the problem of this kind?

Share your opinion, please, if you have one.
This is the same bull crap fake topic you've been posting for years.

Give it a rest.
Why the coyness? Just tell us what the problem and its solution is, so we can bask in the shining light of your cleverness!
You have too much time on your hands my friend, get practising instead.
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin

In all these recordings, I found only ONE the same mistake that almost all pianists make today. But this mistake, as usual, is made in each measure of each song.

Having received my answer this young teacher recorded the same songs without this error. Now they sound much better.
In order to make this error more noticeable, I put the corrected version FIRST here, and the initial version - the SECOND.

I invite everyone to notice this error and suggest a way to correct it.

I ask everyone who can, to indicate to me at least one record available for listening on the Internet, on which the pianist does not make this mistake.


I think I get what you're doing. But, I'm not sure how you can call this a "mistake". It seems more like an aesthetic disagreement. Personally, I don't agree that the corrected versions sound better. You're certainly welcome to play that way, although it makes me feel a bit...seasick? I would not call either of them right or wrong.
Originally Posted by MichaelJK
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin

In all these recordings, I found only ONE the same mistake that almost all pianists make today. But this mistake, as usual, is made in each measure of each song.

Having received my answer this young teacher recorded the same songs without this error. Now they sound much better.
In order to make this error more noticeable, I put the corrected version FIRST here, and the initial version - the SECOND.

I invite everyone to notice this error and suggest a way to correct it.

I ask everyone who can, to indicate to me at least one record available for listening on the Internet, on which the pianist does not make this mistake.


I think I get what you're doing. But, I'm not sure how you can call this a "mistake". It seems more like an aesthetic disagreement. Personally, I don't agree that the corrected versions sound better. You're certainly welcome to play that way, although it makes me feel a bit...seasick? I would not call either of them right or wrong.


I also think I get what is happening. But I also don't think they are "mistakes", but rather "interpretations".

Rameau Menuet en rondeau

https://yadi.sk/d/QVmEAtesngDhEg
Originally Posted by PianoWVBob
This is the same bull crap fake topic you've been posting for years.

Give it a rest.


If you do not understand or do not like these posts - simply do not read them. I do not force you to read something too difficult for you.
Originally Posted by Cheshire Chris
Why the coyness? Just tell us what the problem and its solution is, so we can bask in the shining light of your cleverness!


My next step will be exactly what you want. I will make separate posts on each piece/song with analyzing typical mistakes that pianists usually do performing this music.
Originally Posted by fatar760
You have too much time on your hands my friend, get practising instead.


Do you really feel that I need more practicing on these songs? Let us listen to your performance of the same music: is there anything I have to learn from you?
Originally Posted by MichaelJK
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin

In all these recordings, I found only ONE the same mistake that almost all pianists make today. But this mistake, as usual, is made in each measure of each song.

Having received my answer this young teacher recorded the same songs without this error. Now they sound much better.
In order to make this error more noticeable, I put the corrected version FIRST here, and the initial version - the SECOND.

I invite everyone to notice this error and suggest a way to correct it.

I ask everyone who can, to indicate to me at least one record available for listening on the Internet, on which the pianist does not make this mistake.


I think I get what you're doing. But, I'm not sure how you can call this a "mistake". It seems more like an aesthetic disagreement. Personally, I don't agree that the corrected versions sound better. You're certainly welcome to play that way, although it makes me feel a bit...seasick? I would not call either of them right or wrong.


Your honest comment is a perfect proof of the problem:

After brainwashing at music schools modern pianists believe that artificial, soldiery accents on EACH beat One and Three are the only way to play. However, normal audience rejects this kind of "interpretation" and refuses to listen to such way to play.

If you ask your friends (without "special musical training" = brainwashing) they will definitely prefers each version "A".

I was honest in my recordings as well and did not play version "B" purposely worse. I just played the version "B" exactly like modern music schools teach.
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
My next step will be exactly what you want. I will make separate posts on each piece/song with analyzing typical mistakes that pianists usually do performing this music.
No, we don't need 20+ threads with the same topic before and after this post. That spamming is surely a violation of forum rules.
Originally Posted by NobleHouse
Originally Posted by MichaelJK
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin

In all these recordings, I found only ONE the same mistake that almost all pianists make today. But this mistake, as usual, is made in each measure of each song.

Having received my answer this young teacher recorded the same songs without this error. Now they sound much better.
In order to make this error more noticeable, I put the corrected version FIRST here, and the initial version - the SECOND.

I invite everyone to notice this error and suggest a way to correct it.

I ask everyone who can, to indicate to me at least one record available for listening on the Internet, on which the pianist does not make this mistake.


I think I get what you're doing. But, I'm not sure how you can call this a "mistake". It seems more like an aesthetic disagreement. Personally, I don't agree that the corrected versions sound better. You're certainly welcome to play that way, although it makes me feel a bit...seasick? I would not call either of them right or wrong.


I also think I get what is happening. But I also don't think they are "mistakes", but rather "interpretations".


Music is just one of the human languages. And we are not free to choose the right stress in the words of each language.

If we say “tomorr-O-w” instead of tom-O-rrow and yest-E-rday instead of y-E-sterday, then this is a mistake from the point of view of normal, ordinary listeners who (do not forget) pay us for our concerts. Even if we are so brainwashed with erroneous education that we consider such pronunciation of well known to everyone words as our "interpretation".


This is the first reason why the public no longer goes to concerts of pianists stamped with the same defect in the "factories of musicians".
Originally Posted by rach3master
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
My next step will be exactly what you want. I will make separate posts on each piece/song with analyzing typical mistakes that pianists usually do performing this music.
No, we don't need 20+ threads with the same topic before and after this post. That spamming is surely a violation of forum rules.


Expand your idea clearly:

1. Why do you call an explanation of typical mistakes "a violation of forum rules"?

2. What does mean your "we don't"? Who are "we" in your context, who do you represent in your comment? Who authorized you to speak on behalf of somebody else?
Originally Posted by fatar760
You have too much time on your hands my friend, get practising instead.

This is the best advice to come out of this useless thread.
Originally Posted by AAC127
Originally Posted by fatar760
You have too much time on your hands my friend, get practising instead.

This is the best advice to come out of this useless thread.


Do you know at least ANYTHING about the Intensity?

Do you really feel that I need more practicing on these songs? Let us listen to your performance of the same music: is there anything I have to learn from you?
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
After brainwashing at music schools modern pianists believe that artificial, soldiery accents on EACH beat One and Three are the only way to play.

There is no such thing as one single way of people being taught. If you were to simply present your concepts, and do away with this "what everybody does" (which they don't) it would go a lot better.
I am rather sure that in each of these examples it is yourself playing both versions, in order to highlight a particular aspect. Teachers do this all the time. But they don't pretend that somebody else is playing - this storyline is a problem because in essence it is dishonest. The presentation of an idea would not be.
VD posted on another forum
‘ We are not children and everyone of us understands that each of these pairs of recordings were done by me.’

This is not the first time he has dismissed a dishonest storyline as not being problematic.
So this story of someone sending you recordings is pure fiction?
Originally Posted by keystring
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
After brainwashing at music schools modern pianists believe that artificial, soldiery accents on EACH beat One and Three are the only way to play.

There is no such thing as one single way of people being taught. If you were to simply present your concepts, and do away with this "what everybody does" (which they don't) it would go a lot better.
I am rather sure that in each of these examples it is yourself playing both versions, in order to highlight a particular aspect. Teachers do this all the time. But they don't pretend that somebody else is playing - this storyline is a problem because in essence it is dishonest. The presentation of an idea would not be.


I did not deny that I played both version "A" and "B". I never saw a teacher who uses this way to explain the mistake. Could you give me a chance to listen to how other "Teachers do this all the time"? Thank you in advance. I am really interested.

You say: "There is no such thing as one single way of people being taught." Unfortunately ALL schools and ALL textbook TEACH that the note on beat ONE should be ALWAYS stressed and punish for not stressing. It is 100% totalitarian system of teaching. Everyone, who play differently is attacked by crazy critics and is banned from teaching by any means, Read, what they did to Michelangeli, why he had to escape from Italy, what they said about Cliburn, Radu Lupu and other wonderful musicians.
Originally Posted by Cheshire Chris
So this story of someone sending you recordings is pure fiction?


After I posted HERE several exactly the same pairs of opposite way to perform the same piece what else can it be?
Originally Posted by dogperson
VD posted on another forum
‘ We are not children and everyone of us understands that each of these pairs of recordings were done by me.’

This is not the first time he has dismissed a dishonest storyline as not being problematic.


If you had heard my several dozens of exactly the same pairs of opposite way to perform the same music already, then what is the sense to pretend that you did not know, who played all this songs from a very beginning? Don't you teach self your students in the same way with the same stories? Forum is not a Police station, Court of Justice or a Notary office.
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
Originally Posted by dogperson
VD posted on another forum
‘ We are not children and everyone of us understands that each of these pairs of recordings were done by me.’

This is not the first time he has dismissed a dishonest storyline as not being problematic.


If you had heard my several dozens of exactly the same pairs of opposite way to perform the same music already, then what is the sense to pretend that you did not know, who played all this songs from a very beginning? Don't you teach self your students in the same way with the same stories? Forum is not a Police station, Court of Justice or a Notary office.


Why not familiarize yourself with the forum rules?
Here are a couple of excerpts:

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this BB to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law.

and

We also reserve the right to revoke your privilege to post on our forums for any reason.

I'm afraid I find it extremely offensive to be lied to in this way, Vladimir. Please just be honest with people about the purpose of your posts.
Originally Posted by malkin
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
Originally Posted by dogperson
VD posted on another forum
‘ We are not children and everyone of us understands that each of these pairs of recordings were done by me.’

This is not the first time he has dismissed a dishonest storyline as not being problematic.


If you had heard my several dozens of exactly the same pairs of opposite way to perform the same music already, then what is the sense to pretend that you did not know, who played all this songs from a very beginning? Don't you teach self your students in the same way with the same stories? Forum is not a Police station, Court of Justice or a Notary office.


Why not familiarize yourself with the forum rules?
Here are a couple of excerpts:

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this BB to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law.

and

We also reserve the right to revoke your privilege to post on our forums for any reason.



What of the listed by you can be related in any way to my posts on Musical Intensity in your opinion? However, at the same time half of the listed crimes could be interpreted against your post: defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law.
Originally Posted by Cheshire Chris
I'm afraid I find it extremely offensive to be lied to in this way, Vladimir. Please just be honest with people about the purpose of your posts.


As you know, I invited everyone to argue in a musical language, by our recordings and focus on our real problems in music instead of useless verbal gossiping about concert dresses of celebrities.

However, no one (including YOU) agreed to bring here even anonymous recording for public discussion. Everyone is afraid to be analyzed and criticized even under nickname.

I show my own example to everybody - I use my real name (do you do the same?) because I have no shameful intentions. I want and I can help people in an ABSOLUTELY UNKNOWN to them but EXTREMELY IMPORTANT area of music - Musical Intensity.

In my last post "20+", I have showed a practical way to avoid and prevent direct attacks, like "Why you, an old idiot, played so badly on these recordings?" Most of the people are afraid exactly these words addressed to them.

O.K., say in this case that it is NOT YOUR recording, that it is a recording of your anonymous friend, your student, your teacher - say whatever you want and feel yourself safe, if you are in such a panic. Make a step away from a pathological truthfulness: it is, for example, when student fails foreign language exam because he was asked about profession of his father by examiner and did not know correct translation of the words "structural and applied linguistics specialist". Mentally healthy person would answer: "driver", "doctor", "investor" and exam is passed without any harm to anyone.

Unfortunately, people always look for excuses and accusations the others instead of useful actions. I understand your "extreme" concern about my truthfulness in this way.

Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
Originally Posted by MichaelJK
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin

In all these recordings, I found only ONE the same mistake that almost all pianists make today. But this mistake, as usual, is made in each measure of each song.

Having received my answer this young teacher recorded the same songs without this error. Now they sound much better.
In order to make this error more noticeable, I put the corrected version FIRST here, and the initial version - the SECOND.

I invite everyone to notice this error and suggest a way to correct it.

I ask everyone who can, to indicate to me at least one record available for listening on the Internet, on which the pianist does not make this mistake.


I think I get what you're doing. But, I'm not sure how you can call this a "mistake". It seems more like an aesthetic disagreement. Personally, I don't agree that the corrected versions sound better. You're certainly welcome to play that way, although it makes me feel a bit...seasick? I would not call either of them right or wrong.


Your honest comment is a perfect proof of the problem:

After brainwashing at music schools modern pianists believe that artificial, soldiery accents on EACH beat One and Three are the only way to play. However, normal audience rejects this kind of "interpretation" and refuses to listen to such way to play.

If you ask your friends (without "special musical training" = brainwashing) they will definitely prefers each version "A".

I was honest in my recordings as well and did not play version "B" purposely worse. I just played the version "B" exactly like modern music schools teach.


Pop music often has computer-generated beats which are far more artificial than what you played, and that doesn't hurt its popularity at all. A predictable beat is a good thing. It gives the ear something to latch onto and helps lull the listener into the world created by the music. It also helps the performer, for the same reasons. In my experience, getting to a place of total connection with the beat is the first step in truly embodying a piece of music. So, that's why I have strong opinions about it.

There is plenty of room for creativity within the constraints imposed by the metrical structure. When I read a Stephen King novel, it is exciting and engaging, even though every page has the same typeface, the margin width, etc.

I agree that normal audiences reject the kind of interpretation that comes from music schools. However, I don't believe this is from the regularity of beat accents. Rather, I believe it is from the way that music schools teach students to value correctness more than honesty and presence. As a result, classical musicians tend to be either bored or anxious, and this comes across.

BTW, I don't feel that you are "lying" about your intentions. You're trying to make a point, without triggering biases. That is not the same as intentional deception for the purpose of selfish gain.
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
Originally Posted by fatar760
You have too much time on your hands my friend, get practising instead.


Do you really feel that I need more practicing on these songs? Let us listen to your performance of the same music: is there anything I have to learn from you?


Oh, I'm sure we can all learn from each other in some way - surely no-one is that arrogant to suggest otherwise.

My point wasn't to critique your playing (i thought it was a young piano teacher who had sent you recordings?!) My point was that you've put a lot of effort into a post where your time could be better spent.
Originally Posted by AAC127
Originally Posted by fatar760
You have too much time on your hands my friend, get practising instead.

This is the best advice to come out of this useless thread.



Haha thank you!
Originally Posted by MichaelJK
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
Originally Posted by MichaelJK
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin

In all these recordings, I found only ONE the same mistake that almost all pianists make today. But this mistake, as usual, is made in each measure of each song.

Having received my answer this young teacher recorded the same songs without this error. Now they sound much better.
In order to make this error more noticeable, I put the corrected version FIRST here, and the initial version - the SECOND.

I invite everyone to notice this error and suggest a way to correct it.

I ask everyone who can, to indicate to me at least one record available for listening on the Internet, on which the pianist does not make this mistake.


I think I get what you're doing. But, I'm not sure how you can call this a "mistake". It seems more like an aesthetic disagreement. Personally, I don't agree that the corrected versions sound better. You're certainly welcome to play that way, although it makes me feel a bit...seasick? I would not call either of them right or wrong.


Your honest comment is a perfect proof of the problem:

After brainwashing at music schools modern pianists believe that artificial, soldiery accents on EACH beat One and Three are the only way to play. However, normal audience rejects this kind of "interpretation" and refuses to listen to such way to play.

If you ask your friends (without "special musical training" = brainwashing) they will definitely prefers each version "A".

I was honest in my recordings as well and did not play version "B" purposely worse. I just played the version "B" exactly like modern music schools teach.


Pop music often has computer-generated beats which are far more artificial than what you played, and that doesn't hurt its popularity at all. A predictable beat is a good thing. It gives the ear something to latch onto and helps lull the listener into the world created by the music. It also helps the performer, for the same reasons. In my experience, getting to a place of total connection with the beat is the first step in truly embodying a piece of music. So, that's why I have strong opinions about it.

There is plenty of room for creativity within the constraints imposed by the metrical structure. When I read a Stephen King novel, it is exciting and engaging, even though every page has the same typeface, the margin width, etc.

I agree that normal audiences reject the kind of interpretation that comes from music schools. However, I don't believe this is from the regularity of beat accents. Rather, I believe it is from the way that music schools teach students to value correctness more than honesty and presence. As a result, classical musicians tend to be either bored or anxious, and this comes across.

BTW, I don't feel that you are "lying" about your intentions. You're trying to make a point, without triggering biases. That is not the same as intentional deception for the purpose of selfish gain.



Military brass band with their grand-drum are even better example of attractiveness of this kind of beat. Together with all the friends of my childhood, I immediately gave up everything and ran to watch the guard and ceremonial march of soldiers under this breathtaking beat of the brass band and deafening beats of the big drum.

However, this kind of beat and music are perfect for everything below the waste line of our body. For heart, soul, mind etc. - this beat is not a right choice.

There is no sense to argue verbally. Bring here "Fur Elise", "Moonlight" or Chopin's Nocturne with the beat you praise (you can find a lot of such performances, especially on Brazilian sites) and compare with the natural way to play this kind of music. Then it will be more clear: what is better for the music and its listeners.
Originally Posted by fatar760
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
Originally Posted by fatar760
You have too much time on your hands my friend, get practising instead.


Do you really feel that I need more practicing on these songs? Let us listen to your performance of the same music: is there anything I have to learn from you?


Oh, I'm sure we can all learn from each other in some way - surely no-one is that arrogant to suggest otherwise.

My point wasn't to critique your playing (i thought it was a young piano teacher who had sent you recordings?!) My point was that you've put a lot of effort into a post where your time could be better spent.



Try to record at least one piece and bring it here, and you will see that you had to work hard with great benefit for you.

And the protests of my local opponents make me ready for any questions and objections of my students. So I am a huge win.
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
Originally Posted by fatar760
Originally Posted by Vladimir Dounin
Originally Posted by fatar760
You have too much time on your hands my friend, get practising instead.


Do you really feel that I need more practicing on these songs? Let us listen to your performance of the same music: is there anything I have to learn from you?


Oh, I'm sure we can all learn from each other in some way - surely no-one is that arrogant to suggest otherwise.

My point wasn't to critique your playing (i thought it was a young piano teacher who had sent you recordings?!) My point was that you've put a lot of effort into a post where your time could be better spent.



Try to record at least one piece and bring it here, and you will see that you had to work hard with great benefit for you.

And the protests of my local opponents make me ready for any questions and objections of my students. So I am a huge win.


I have no idea who your opponents are but I'm happy you're winning...whatever it is you're playing them at. The locals in Canada are quite friendly, I'm sure.

And, I don't need to record a song and showcase it here to know how hard I work or to see the benefits but thanks for the suggestion.
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