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Chopin desert island

Posted By: JoelW

Chopin desert island - 02/28/19 01:30 AM

You get to choose 5 opuses.

My list.

1. Etudes Op. 25
2. Preludes Op. 28
3. Sonata Op. 58
4. Barcarole Op. 60
5. Polonaise-fantasy Op. 61
Posted By: Mark_C

Re: Chopin desert island - 02/28/19 02:44 AM

All I need is one, because this is also my desert island pick if we're not composer-limited:

Originally Posted by JoelW
Preludes Op. 28
Posted By: Kalos Piano

Re: Chopin desert island - 02/28/19 11:20 AM

10, 25 and 28 for sure.
Tough choice on the other two, but I guess 9 (nocturnes) and 22 (andante spianato and polonaise)...
Posted By: johnstaf

Re: Chopin desert island - 02/28/19 02:05 PM

Concerto in E minor.
Concerto in F minor.
Ballade No.1
Ballade No.4
Scherzo No.2
Posted By: Sibylle

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/01/19 07:10 PM

Can't believe nobody has mentioned Nocturnes op. 27? Tsk.
Otherwise, I'd take a couple waltzes and ballades.
Posted By: pianoloverus

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/01/19 07:27 PM

None, since I think Chopin, as great a composer as he is, is very over discussed at PW. I get the impression that some posters are ignoring much of the other great music from the piano literature.
Posted By: Mark_C

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/01/19 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by Mark_C
All I need is one, because this is also my desert island pick if we're not composer-limited:

Originally Posted by JoelW
Preludes Op. 28

Since we can do 5, why not.... grin

Preludes, Op. 28
Barcarolle
F# minor Polonaise
A-flat Polonaise (Op. 53)
.....one more, eh.....
F minor Ballade

Five wasn't that hard.
Picking a 6th would be * -- a multi-way tie -- but for me those 5 are the elite.

* Actually not: B minor Sonata
Posted By: JoelW

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/01/19 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by pianoloverus
None, since I think Chopin, as great a composer as he is, is very over discussed at PW. I get the impression that some posters are ignoring much of the other great music from the piano literature.

He's sort of our immortal god as pianists. His body of consistently great music is why he so talked about. No other piano writer managed to do that.
Posted By: JoelW

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/01/19 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by Mark_C
All I need is one, because this is also my desert island pick if we're not composer-limited:

Originally Posted by JoelW
Preludes Op. 28

Since we can do 5, why not.... grin

Preludes, Op. 28
Barcarolle
F# minor Polonaise
A-flat Polonaise (Op. 53)
.....one more, eh.....
F minor Ballade

Five wasn't that hard.
Picking a 6th would be * -- a multi-way tie -- but for me those 5 are the elite.

* Actually not: B minor Sonata

I was questioning your sanity until the last bit. wink
Posted By: pianoloverus

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/01/19 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
None, since I think Chopin, as great a composer as he is, is very over discussed at PW. I get the impression that some posters are ignoring much of the other great music from the piano literature.
He's sort of our immortal god as pianists. His body of consistently great music is why he so talked about. No other piano writer managed to do that.
I agree his output is consistently great with maybe a few exceptions, but I don't think that makes him greater than some of the other really great composers for piano like Bach, Beethoven, Mozart(if you include the concertos), Schubert, Schumann, Brahms, Liszt, Debussy, and Ravel. I think quality of the composer's best compositions is more important than consistency especially for composers like Bach. Beethoven, and Liszt who wrote so much piano music.
Posted By: JoelW

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/01/19 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I agree his output is consistently great with maybe a few exceptions, but I don't think that makes him greater than some of the other really great composers for piano Bach, Beethoven, Mozart

I didn't claim it made him greater composer. What I do claim is that it explains why, on a piano forum, he's discussed more frequently. The number of truly great pieces he wrote far exceeds the number of equally great piano pieces written by anyone else. Also I don't consider Mozart's and Beethoven's piano music to be true piano music.
Posted By: pianoloverus

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/01/19 11:47 PM

Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I agree his output is consistently great with maybe a few exceptions, but I don't think that makes him greater than some of the other really great composers for piano Bach, Beethoven, Mozart

I didn't claim it made him greater composer. What I do claim is that it explains why, on a piano forum, he's discussed more frequently. The number of truly great pieces he wrote far exceeds the number of equally great piano pieces written by anyone else. Also I don't consider Mozart's and Beethoven's piano music to be true piano music.
I think many and perhaps most would disagree with your last two sentences.

I also don't think inconsistency would make a composer less discussed. It could mean that the lesser compositions of that composer would not be discussed much. If a composer only wrote a very small number of great masterpieces(like Mussorgsky or ALbeniz) that could make him little discussed, but that doesn't apply to most or all of the composers I listed.
Posted By: NobleHouse

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/02/19 12:09 AM

Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
None, since I think Chopin, as great a composer as he is, is very over discussed at PW. I get the impression that some posters are ignoring much of the other great music from the piano literature.
He's sort of our immortal god as pianists. His body of consistently great music is why he so talked about. No other piano writer managed to do that.
I agree his output is consistently great with maybe a few exceptions, but I don't think that makes him greater than some of the other really great composers for piano like Bach, Beethoven, Mozart(if you include the concertos), Schubert, Schumann, Brahms, Liszt, Debussy, and Ravel. I think quality of the composer's best compositions is more important than consistency especially for composers like Bach. Beethoven, and Liszt who wrote so much piano music.


+1 thumb The composers who you listed are just as great as Chopin, if not greater in many instances! And I do like and enjoy Chopin.
Posted By: JoelW

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/02/19 12:12 AM

Please list those who are greater than Chopin.
Posted By: NobleHouse

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/02/19 12:59 AM

Originally Posted by JoelW
Please list those who are greater than Chopin.

Obviously just my opinion, but here goes: Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Liszt, Verdi, Puccini, Donizetti just to name a few. Again, just my personaly opinion. grin
Posted By: JoelW

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/02/19 02:47 AM

Originally Posted by NobleHouse
Originally Posted by JoelW
Please list those who are greater than Chopin.

Obviously just my opinion, but here goes: Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Liszt, Verdi, Puccini, Donizetti just to name a few. Again, just my personaly opinion. grin

Have you even heard Chopin beyond Op. 9 No. 2? This is just sad.
Posted By: MikeN

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/02/19 03:34 AM

Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by NobleHouse
Originally Posted by JoelW
Please list those who are greater than Chopin.

Obviously just my opinion, but here goes: Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Liszt, Verdi, Puccini, Donizetti just to name a few. Again, just my personaly opinion. grin

Have you even heard Chopin beyond Op. 9 No. 2? This is just sad.


Wow, I don't think this is where this thread was meant to go... confused

Isn't this a pointless pursuit gentlemen? Can you really define the greatest? Could you even agree on the terms? Finally, is this not another thread if one really cares to have such a discussion.

For what it's worth, I find it very interesting what Chopin folks can't go without.
Posted By: NobleHouse

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/02/19 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by NobleHouse
Originally Posted by JoelW
Please list those who are greater than Chopin.

Obviously just my opinion, but here goes: Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Liszt, Verdi, Puccini, Donizetti just to name a few. Again, just my personaly opinion. grin

Have you even heard Chopin beyond Op. 9 No. 2? This is just sad.


I did NOT take any potshots at you? Why attack my opinion?! mad
Posted By: JoelW

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/02/19 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by NobleHouse
Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by NobleHouse
Originally Posted by JoelW
Please list those who are greater than Chopin.

Obviously just my opinion, but here goes: Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Liszt, Verdi, Puccini, Donizetti just to name a few. Again, just my personaly opinion. grin

Have you even heard Chopin beyond Op. 9 No. 2? This is just sad.


I did NOT take any potshots at you? Why attack my opinion?! mad

Why are you so offended? It's an honest question. You seem to not know any Chopin, which is sad.
Posted By: dolce sfogato

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/02/19 09:52 PM

opp. 10/23/25/28/58
Posted By: Carey

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/02/19 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I agree his output is consistently great with maybe a few exceptions, but I don't think that makes him greater than some of the other really great composers for piano Bach, Beethoven, Mozart
I didn't claim it made him greater composer. What I do claim is that it explains why, on a piano forum, he's discussed more frequently. The number of truly great pieces he wrote far exceeds the number of equally great piano pieces written by anyone else. Also I don't consider Mozart's and Beethoven's piano music to be true piano music.
I think many and perhaps most would disagree with your last two sentences.
I'm one of the most and many. I'm curious,Joel, how do YOU define true "piano music?"
Posted By: NobleHouse

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/02/19 10:32 PM

To the OP: Which just shows how little you know of me, thus your assumption is both absurd and "is sad".

Not that I have to justify my thoughts to you, but I listen to Chopin every single day (as well as the other composers I mentioned). He is definitely a great composer in my opinion. I originally responded to pianoloverus comment "agreeing" with her/him. But I seemed to have "upset" you.

I will not waste any more time responding to this specific thread.
Posted By: JoelW

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/02/19 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by NobleHouse
To the OP: Which just shows how little you know of me, thus your assumption is both absurd and "is sad".

Not that I have to justify my thoughts to you, but I listen to Chopin every single day (as well as the other composers I mentioned). He is definitely a great composer in my opinion. I originally responded to pianoloverus comment "agreeing" with her/him. But I seemed to have "upset" you.

I will not waste any more time responding to this specific thread.

I'm not upset at all. Perplexed maybe. I didn't mean any offense.
Posted By: AaronSF

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/02/19 10:48 PM

There is no music I wouldn't tire of pretty quickly on a desert island. If I couldn't have everything in my music library, I'd rather have nothing at all. Can you imagine listening to Chopin's Ballades, Nocturnes, Scherzos, Sonatas, and Preludes (my choices for this little exercise) over and over and over and over... tired crazy cursing I'd come away from that little exercise hating one of my favorite composers. No thanks!
Posted By: Zaphod

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/03/19 01:08 AM

What's Saturday night if you can't have a good ruck about Chopin, eh?
Posted By: outo

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/03/19 06:48 AM

I overdosed myself with Chopin before, so don't listen to him much anymore. Never really liked to play his music because my hands cannot do it justice. Don't mind hearing his music live and I do practice the Berceuse at the moment but my huge collection of Chopin recordings are mostly untouched these days...

Still, his pieces do play in my head regularly and sometimes come out as singing so I don't really need recordings on a desert island smile
Posted By: Lady Bird

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/03/19 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
None, since I think Chopin, as great a composer as he is, is very over discussed at PW. I get the impression that some posters are ignoring much of the other great music from the piano literature.

He's sort of our immortal god as pianists. His body of consistently great music is why he so talked about. No other piano writer managed to do that.

I visted his grave in Paris .There was a small group of young people, some were weeping .His grave always has flowers on it .
Posted By: BruceD

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/03/19 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by Lady Bird
[...]
I visted his grave in Paris .There was a small group of young people, some were weeping .His grave always has flowers on it .


Taken the last time I was in Paris.

[Linked Image]

Regards,
Posted By: Lady Bird

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/03/19 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by NobleHouse
Originally Posted by JoelW
Please list those who are greater than Chopin.

Obviously just my opinion, but here goes: Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Liszt, Verdi, Puccini, Donizetti just to name a few. Again, just my personaly opinion. grin

Have you even heard Chopin beyond Op. 9 No. 2? This is just sad.

I can just say that NobleHouse listens to a great deal of music on this forum. He is I think highly perceptive and knowledgeable about piano music .
Posted By: Lady Bird

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/03/19 11:07 PM

The great composers themselves were highly subjective about which composers are important .Ravel referred to Beethoven as "Oh you mean the deaf one "
Everything important they had to say is in thier music .It is only human to have preferences.
Posted By: MikeN

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/03/19 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Ravel referred to Beethoven as "Oh you mean the deaf one "


Wow! Did he really? I never knew that. I can imagine though. Ravel, in my opinion, always sounds beautiful. It seems to be a default characteristic of his idiom. Beethoven didn't seem to have the same aesthetics.
Posted By: AAC127

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/04/19 12:06 AM


Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I agree his output is consistently great with maybe a few exceptions, but I don't think that makes him greater than some of the other really great composers for piano Bach, Beethoven, Mozart

I didn't claim it made him greater composer. What I do claim is that it explains why, on a piano forum, he's discussed more frequently. The number of truly great pieces he wrote far exceeds the number of equally great piano pieces written by anyone else. Also I don't consider Mozart's and Beethoven's piano music to be true piano music.

So you don't consider Beethoven's 32 sonatas to be true piano music? Um, what?
Posted By: Chernobieff Piano

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/04/19 12:20 AM

I'm more curious about when guys throw Chopin into the fire to stay warm, and worry more about food and shelter on that island.
-chris
Posted By: AAC127

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/04/19 12:30 AM

Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
None, since I think Chopin, as great a composer as he is, is very over discussed at PW. I get the impression that some posters are ignoring much of the other great music from the piano literature.

He's sort of our immortal god as pianists. His body of consistently great music is why he so talked about. No other piano writer managed to do that.

Also to be brutally honest, as a "complete composer," Chopin is overrated. He couldn't orchestrate worth beans.

If Beethoven or Brahms spent all of their energies exclusively on solo piano, they would have been greater than Chopin ........
Posted By: AAC127

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/04/19 01:01 AM

Originally Posted by pianoloverus
None, since I think Chopin, as great a composer as he is, is very over discussed at PW. I get the impression that some posters are ignoring much of the other great music from the piano literature.

I couldn't agree with this more. I'm unashamedly a Lisztian because I find his piano works so much more varied and interesting than Chopin's. Chopin can write beautiful melodies - but that's it; while Liszt is by turns demonic, religious, morbid, ecstatic, frenzied, mesmeric, glorious, demented, romantic, cold, prophetic, impressionistic.
Posted By: NobleHouse

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/04/19 01:53 AM

Originally Posted by AAC127
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
None, since I think Chopin, as great a composer as he is, is very over discussed at PW. I get the impression that some posters are ignoring much of the other great music from the piano literature.

I couldn't agree with this more. I'm unashamedly a Lisztian because I find his piano works so much more varied and interesting than Chopin's. Chopin can write beautiful melodies - but that's it; while Liszt is by turns demonic, religious, morbid, ecstatic, frenzied, mesmeric, glorious, demented, romantic, cold, prophetic, impressionistic.


I just subscribed to your YouTube channel.
Posted By: JoelW

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/04/19 01:59 AM

Originally Posted by AAC127
Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
None, since I think Chopin, as great a composer as he is, is very over discussed at PW. I get the impression that some posters are ignoring much of the other great music from the piano literature.

He's sort of our immortal god as pianists. His body of consistently great music is why he so talked about. No other piano writer managed to do that.

Also to be brutally honest, as a "complete composer," Chopin is overrated. He couldn't orchestrate worth beans.

If Beethoven or Brahms spent all of their energies exclusively on solo piano, they would have been greater than Chopin ........

This is the funniest thing I've ever read.
Posted By: johnstaf

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/04/19 02:18 AM

Originally Posted by AAC127

If Beethoven or Brahms spent all of their energies exclusively on solo piano, they would have been greater than Chopin ........


Would have?

grin

Sorry. Couldn't resist!

grin
Posted By: Zaphod

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/04/19 02:27 AM

Why can they not just all exist on the same level and just have different flavours? The top tier guys, that is, like Chopin or Beethoven. What you guys are debating about is the equivalent of which ice cream flavour is the best (It's pistachio by the way, but that's beside the point).

No, Beethoven could not have done what Chopin did, and vice versa. Why? Because they were different human beings. They sound different.

Composers do not have to orchestrate in order to prove themselves. Nor do they have to write solo piano music. They are simply required to generate music in one form or another.

Chopin was a very acute specialist really. Beethoven not so much so. You need both types.
Posted By: Carey

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/04/19 02:58 AM

Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
None, since I think Chopin, as great a composer as he is, is very over discussed at PW. I get the impression that some posters are ignoring much of the other great music from the piano literature.
He's sort of our immortal god as pianists. His body of consistently great music is why he so talked about. No other piano writer managed to do that.
I dunno - from where I sit, Bach, Beethoven, Brahms, Schubert and Schumann are very much in the same league as Chopin when it comes to solo piano works, and Mozart too when factoring in piano concertos.
Originally Posted by AAC127
Also to be brutally honest, as a "complete composer," Chopin is overrated. He couldn't orchestrate worth beans. If Beethoven or Brahms spent all of their energies exclusively on solo piano, they would have been greater than Chopin ........
Well, we don't really know that.....and actually all three of these gents were geniuses. Beethoven and Brahms clearly were more "complete" composers in that they consistently created masterpieces in symphonic, choral, chamber music, and solo piano/concerto literature. But that doesn't make Chopin "overrated" or any less "great" just because he focused primarily on the piano.
Posted By: JoelW

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/04/19 03:05 AM

Don't waste your breath on someone who doesn't have a concept of intrinsic value.
Posted By: Lady Bird

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/04/19 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by Chernobieff Piano
I'm more curious about when guys throw Chopin into the fire to stay warm, and worry more about food and shelter on that island.
-chris

Yes if I had a piano there .I would find a man somewhere and turn it into a boat .,or I would try my best to make a raft .Forget Chopin,Schumann, Mozart !
Posted By: Lady Bird

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/04/19 08:08 AM

A Bechstein boat ! I can think of a great deal of use for those Chopin music books too .So who be the greatest, since the Ballade in G minor has become a bonnet and the Nocturnes have become ,......
some unmentionable?
.
Posted By: AAC127

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/04/19 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by JoelW
Don't waste your breath on someone who doesn't have a concept of intrinsic value.

Yes because you obviously know exactly what the concept of intrinsic value is, especially when you dismissed Mozart's and Beethoven piano music as not "true".
By the way, I find Beethoven's 32nd Sonata to be much more of an achievement than anything by Chopin. As Brendel said: "...perhaps nowhere else in piano literature does mystical experience feel so immediately close at hand." (also considering this isn't "true" piano music it's a bit strange how Chopin admired it himself so much that he chose to imitate both the beginning and end of the first movement in the opening of his B-flat Minor sonata, and in the end of the Revolutionary etude respectively.)
Posted By: AAC127

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/04/19 10:23 AM


Originally Posted by NobleHouse

I just subscribed to your YouTube channel.

Thanks NobleHouse! I still think Liszt is criminally underrated as a composer and it's always interesting displaying his more obscure works out of the 1000+ he wrote.
Posted By: w3sp

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/06/19 11:06 AM

Why decide for 5 Opus when you have most of Chopin works in your head and can just "play it back" there.

I'd probably go for one of lesser known works in order to get to know these better.
Posted By: willpianist

Re: Chopin desert island - 03/25/19 08:19 AM

My pick:

Concerto no. 1
Scherzo no. 2
Ballade no. 4
Grand Polonaise op.22
Sonata no. 3

Wait.... I don't have the skills to play most of them.
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