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Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written?

Posted By: Intermezzo 116-2

Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? - 12/09/18 04:41 AM

Hello,

Recently, I have been thinking deeply about this question.
Let´s focus on these options:

1.- Chopin-Godowsky: Study in A minor "Ignis Fatuus".
Ignis Fatuus
2.- Chopin-Godowsky: Study in G♯ minor (Opu 25 No.6).
G# minor
3.- Chopin-Godowsky: Study "Badinage".
Badinage
4.- Brahms: Etude after Frederic Chopin's Etude Op. 25 No. 2.
Etude after Chopin
5.- Chopin-Rosenthal: Minute Waltz in Thirds.
Minute Waltz in Thirds
6.- Rimsky-Korsakov-Cziffra: Flight of the Bumblebee.
Bumblebee
7.- Scriabin: One of his etudes (Op. 8) (Remeber: less than 2 minutes)
Etudes Op. 8
8 Another piece?? Please mention it to me.

What do you think?
In my opinion, I would choose option number 1 (Ignis Fatuus)
Posted By: BruceD

Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? - 12/09/18 06:36 AM

Originally Posted by Intermezzo 116-2
Hello,

Recently, I have been thinking deeply about this question.
[...]


Why?
Posted By: Iaroslav Vasiliev

Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? - 12/09/18 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by Intermezzo 116-2
Hello,

Recently, I have been thinking deeply about this question.
[...]


Why?

To show off fast. cool
Posted By: johnstaf

Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? - 12/09/18 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by Iaroslav Vasiliev
Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by Intermezzo 116-2
Hello,

Recently, I have been thinking deeply about this question.
[...]


Why?

To show off fast. cool


They could have it at the 2020 Olympics. The gold medal for 1000m, sorry that should be 1000 notes goes to...
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? - 12/09/18 02:32 PM

György Ligeti, Études, Book 2: No. 14, Coloana infinită (1:41):
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? - 12/09/18 03:10 PM

György Ligeti, Études, Book 1: No. 3, Touches bloquées (1:51):


György Ligeti, Études, Book 2: No. 10, Der Zauberlehrling (1:52):
Posted By: newport

Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? - 12/09/18 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by Intermezzo 116-2
Hello,

Recently, I have been thinking deeply about this question.
[...]


Why?


A stage thing most people need to go through at some point in life? ha
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? - 12/09/18 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by newport
Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by Intermezzo 116-2
Hello
Recently, I have been thinking deeply about this question.
[...]

Why?

A stage thing most people need to go through at some point in life? ha

Or maybe this? LOL
Posted By: precise

Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? - 12/09/18 06:13 PM

There is no answer to the OP's query.
Every pianist has a different hand and a different technique - each has strengths and weaknesses. What is easy or do-able for one, may not be for another, and vice versa ad nauseum.

Playing a 'simple' movement from Mozart will make a pianist sweat much more than any of the examples you gave - simply because every single note is a nightmare to voice, and one bump kills the whole perf.

There are hundreds of pieces that you could add to your list if you just want 2 mins packed with notes.

NVB
Posted By: Sibylle

Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? - 12/09/18 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by precise
... if you just want 2 mins packed with notes.




Sorry, couldn't resist grin Carry on, carry on...
Posted By: MikeN

Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? - 12/09/18 08:10 PM

I’ll throw in Hamelin’s black key. Never tried it though, so for all I know it’s rather comfortable though this is unlikely based on my limited experience with reading his stuff.
Posted By: johnstaf

Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? - 12/09/18 08:44 PM

I think that Chopin's opus 10 no. 2 is harder than the Godowsky. The hard part of the original is playing scale passages with 4 and 5 of the right hand. Moving these to 1 and 2 in the left hand makes it much easier. The considerable difficulty of the right hand in the Godowsky doesn't offset this.

Chopin's op. 25 no.6 is arguably more difficult that the Godowsky version. In this case, the thirds are easier in the left hand. The original etude is also more difficult than the Minute Waltz in thirds.

Scriabin's etudes are great. They're difficult to play well. The composers of these etudes wrote them to challenge difficulties head on. The better you want to play them, the harder they get.
Posted By: trigalg693

Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? - 12/09/18 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by johnstaf
I think that Chopin's opus 10 no. 2 is harder than the Godowsky. The hard part of the original is playing scale passages with 4 and 5 of the right hand. Moving these to 1 and 2 in the left hand makes it much easier. The considerable difficulty of the right hand in the Godowsky doesn't offset this.

Chopin's op. 25 no.6 is arguably more difficult that the Godowsky version. In this case, the thirds are easier in the left hand. The original etude is also more difficult than the Minute Waltz in thirds.


The left hand parts might be easier than the Chopin right hand parts, but the right hand is a lot busier in Godowsky and that makes it really hard. Ignis Fatuus gives me a headache looking at the score. I've been working on and off on the 25-6 Godowsky for 6 years and I still can't get the blasted right hand jumps correct. Also, I would not say 25-6 is really easier in the left hand, because the A#D-BD# and GB-AC# patterns are really, really bad for the left hand.

The Hamelin Etude in A minor (after 10-2, 25-4, 25-11) is my nomination hehe.
Posted By: Intermezzo 116-2

Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? - 12/10/18 12:41 AM

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
György Ligeti, Études, Book 1: No. 3, Touches bloquées (1:51):


György Ligeti, Études, Book 2: No. 10, Der Zauberlehrling (1:52):


Hello!

Thanks so much for your response. Nonethless, I have listened carefully to both pieces, and I have also analized both scores...hard pieces for sure, but far from being as virtuosic as the ones that I mentioned.
Posted By: Intermezzo 116-2

Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? - 12/10/18 12:51 AM

Originally Posted by precise
There is no answer to the OP's query.


There are hundreds of pieces that you could add to your list if you just want 2 mins packed with notes.

NVB


We are not talking about the quantity of notes in a piece. We are talking about technique and pianism. What a lame and dull answer you gave...
Posted By: Intermezzo 116-2

Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? - 12/10/18 01:03 AM

Originally Posted by johnstaf
I think that Chopin's opus 10 no. 2 is harder than the Godowsky. The hard part of the original is playing scale passages with 4 and 5 of the right hand. Moving these to 1 and 2 in the left hand makes it much easier. The considerable difficulty of the right hand in the Godowsky doesn't offset this.

Chopin's op. 25 no.6 is arguably more difficult that the Godowsky version. In this case, the thirds are easier in the left hand. The original etude is also more difficult than the Minute Waltz in thirds.

Scriabin's etudes are great. They're difficult to play well. The composers of these etudes wrote them to challenge difficulties head on. The better you want to play them, the harder they get.



What do you think about Brahm´s and Cziffra´s?
I have never seen anybody performing Brahm´s, and I cannot even find a recorded performance on YouTube.
Posted By: Intermezzo 116-2

Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? - 12/10/18 01:10 AM

Originally Posted by trigalg693
Originally Posted by johnstaf
I think that Chopin's opus 10 no. 2 is harder than the Godowsky. The hard part of the original is playing scale passages with 4 and 5 of the right hand. Moving these to 1 and 2 in the left hand makes it much easier. The considerable difficulty of the right hand in the Godowsky doesn't offset this.

Chopin's op. 25 no.6 is arguably more difficult that the Godowsky version. In this case, the thirds are easier in the left hand. The original etude is also more difficult than the Minute Waltz in thirds.


The left hand parts might be easier than the Chopin right hand parts, but the right hand is a lot busier in Godowsky and that makes it really hard. Ignis Fatuus gives me a headache looking at the score. I've been working on and off on the 25-6 Godowsky for 6 years and I still can't get the blasted right hand jumps correct. Also, I would not say 25-6 is really easier in the left hand, because the A#D-BD# and GB-AC# patterns are really, really bad for the left hand.

The Hamelin Etude in A minor (after 10-2, 25-4, 25-11) is my nomination hehe.


What do you think about Brahm´s and Cziffra´s?
I have never seen anybody performing Brahm´s, and I cannot even find a recorded performance on YouTube.
Posted By: pianoloverus

Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? - 12/10/18 01:46 AM

Originally Posted by Intermezzo 116-2
Originally Posted by precise
There is no answer to the OP's query.


There are hundreds of pieces that you could add to your list if you just want 2 mins packed with notes.

NVB


We are not talking about the quantity of notes in a piece. We are talking about technique and pianism. What a lame and dull answer you gave...
I think precise's answer made perfect sense. Pieces with great technical difficulty usually have lots of notes played at fast speeds(just like the suggested pieces in the OP).

The weird thing about the OP's post is the 2 minute limit on the piece.
Posted By: Tyrone Slothrop

Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? - 12/10/18 02:45 AM

Originally Posted by pianoloverus
The weird thing about the OP's post is the 2 minute limit on the piece.

I know there are competitions with a strict and short time limit. For example, America's Got Talent uses a 90 second audition window.

Personally, I wouldn't mind learning a few flashy 2min pieces eventually. So if I play something for someone, I don't have to impose on them with a long piece. (Though the likelihood I will voluntarily play something for anyone is diminishingly small!)
Posted By: trigalg693

Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? - 12/10/18 03:41 AM

Originally Posted by Intermezzo 116-2

What do you think about Brahm´s and Cziffra´s?
I have never seen anybody performing Brahm´s, and I cannot even find a recorded performance on YouTube.


The Cziffra is hard for sure, but it's not super dense in terms of how many notes you have to be thinking about. My guess is it's not that hard to learn if you have very good octaves/chords.

The Brahms is a bunch of 6ths and 3rds in the right hand. If you have big hands with good stretch, 6ths are not that big of a deal. Any good pianist should be able to handle the 3rds. It doesn't surprise me that there's not many performances of it because who in their right mind would want to learn that thing...

If it counts for your "under 2 minutes short piece", I think the Brahms Paganini Variations Book 1 variations 1 and 2 are much harder because there's way more notes to think about at a time. For the same reason, I think out of the ones on your list Ignis Fatuus is the hardest.
Posted By: wr

Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? - 12/10/18 05:07 AM

Originally Posted by johnstaf
I think that Chopin's opus 10 no. 2 is harder than the Godowsky. The hard part of the original is playing scale passages with 4 and 5 of the right hand. Moving these to 1 and 2 in the left hand makes it much easier. The considerable difficulty of the right hand in the Godowsky doesn't offset this.



Carlos Chavez did a left hand inversion of it that retains the 4 and 5 difficulty. He also did left hand inversions of four more of the Chopin etudes.
Posted By: dolce sfogato

Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? - 12/27/18 11:04 PM

Chopin, piano sonata nr.2, 4th movement.
Posted By: Lady Bird

Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? - 12/31/18 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by precise
There is no answer to the OP's query.
Every pianist has a different hand and a different technique - each has strengths and weaknesses. What is easy or do-able for one, may not be for another, and vice versa ad nauseum.

Playing a 'simple' movement from Mozart will make a pianist sweat much more than any of the examples you gave - simply because every single note is a nightmare to voice, and one bump kills the whole perf.

There are hundreds of pieces that you could add to your list if you just want 2 mins packed with notes.

NVB
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